Expert Talks | Specialising in Sustainability as an Architect: What it Involves

Novatr
2 Sept 202226:52

Summary

TLDRIn this insightful interview, Arat speaks with Asan Rehman, a U.S.-based architect and sustainability expert. Asan shares her professional journey, discussing her work in sustainable architecture and how technology, specifically Building Information Modeling (BIM), helps reduce environmental impact. She emphasizes the importance of making sustainability affordable and accessible to all, noting that true progress comes from holistic approaches. The conversation touches on her research, professional projects, and advice for those entering the field. Rehman also highlights the value of programs like 1s2x in preparing professionals for industry challenges.

Takeaways

  • 🌱 Sustainability affordability is a key challenge, with a focus on making technology more accessible and efficient for all.
  • 🌍 Ashan Rehman is a U.S.-based architect passionate about sustainable architecture, particularly in balancing modern technology with traditional methods.
  • 🏫 Ashan pursued her master's at Carnegie Mellon University, focusing on sustainable operations, building simulations, and environmental science.
  • 🛠 BIM (Building Information Modeling) plays a crucial role in reducing construction waste, optimizing material use, and extending the lifespan of buildings.
  • 💻 Ashan's work involves various sustainability and modeling software, with tools like Ecotrope, eQuest, Climate Studio, and Ladybug used for energy and carbon analysis.
  • 🏛 Vernacular architecture in India, such as the 'jali' technique, has inspired Ashan to explore the integration of traditional methods with modern sustainable solutions.
  • 💡 A significant misconception is that sustainable solutions are only for the wealthy, but long-term benefits make these solutions more affordable and accessible over time.
  • 🌎 BIM aids in fighting global warming by promoting transparency in material use, carbon reporting, and retrofitting buildings for energy efficiency.
  • 👷 Ashan's favorite projects include research on Indian vernacular architecture and creating a comic about a future where technology aids sustainable living.
  • 🎓 Ashan encourages young professionals to explore diverse career paths in sustainability, emphasizing the importance of knowing one's passion and direction within the field.

Q & A

  • What challenge does Ashan Rehman identify as her biggest in the field of sustainability?

    -Ashan Rehman feels the biggest challenge in sustainability is affordability. While everyone should have access to technology and comfort, the current challenge is making sustainable technology more affordable and efficient for everyone.

  • How did Ashan Rehman decide to pursue a career in sustainability?

    -Ashan Rehman realized during her architectural studies that architecture is not just about aesthetics but also about environmental responsibility. Growing up in a place with vernacular architecture that used sustainable methods also inspired her to pursue sustainability in her career.

  • What are some software tools Ashan uses for energy modeling and sustainability projects?

    -Ashan Rehman uses a variety of software depending on the project. For example, while studying at Carnegie Mellon, she used Climate Studio, Hope Tool, and Ladybug. Professionally, she uses Ecotrope and eQuest.

  • How does Ashan Rehman believe BIM contributes to sustainability?

    -Ashan believes BIM helps by reducing construction waste and enhancing the lifespan of buildings. It allows for the fabrication of construction modules, which can prevent over-ordering of materials, and also facilitates tracking of carbon data and retrofitting decisions for improved efficiency.

  • What misconception about sustainability does Ashan Rehman aim to clear?

    -Ashan wants to address the misconception that sustainability is only affordable for the rich. She argues that while the initial costs might be high, sustainable investments pay off over time through reduced operational costs like energy and gas.

  • What are Ashan Rehman’s favorite projects in her sustainability career?

    -Ashan mentions two projects: one was a research project on Indian vernacular architecture, particularly studying 'Jali' construction for thermal comfort and daylight optimization. The second was a creative project where she imagined a future where technology enables sustainable living.

  • What advice does Ashan Rehman offer to young professionals wanting to specialize in sustainability?

    -Ashan advises that aspiring sustainability professionals should understand the wide range of careers in the field, from energy modeling to ESG consulting, data analysis, and software development. She encourages people to identify their interests and pursue relevant courses accordingly.

  • What has been Ashan Rehman’s experience working with 1s2x as a mentor?

    -Ashan has found her mentoring experience with 1s2x rewarding. She appreciates that students are eager to learn and improve themselves. She also values that 1s2x provides not only BIM training but also industry guidance and mentorship opportunities.

  • What role does Ashan Rehman believe architects play in combating climate change?

    -Ashan highlights that 40% of carbon emissions come from the built environment, making architects crucial in the fight against climate change. BIM helps in reporting carbon data, making buildings more energy-efficient, and supporting retrofitting efforts to avoid unnecessary demolitions.

  • How does Ashan Rehman view the global responsibility in sustainability efforts?

    -Ashan stresses that sustainability should be viewed holistically. It’s not just about saving money or individual health benefits; it's about the broader environmental impact. She emphasizes that the effects of climate change will disproportionately affect poorer communities.

Outlines

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🎯 Introduction to the Challenge of Sustainability

05:01

🌍 The Importance of Sustainability in Architecture

10:02

🏛️ Blending Architecture and Sustainability

15:03

🔍 Utilizing BIM for Data and Sustainability

20:03

💡 Software and Tools in Sustainability

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💼 Challenges in the Sustainability Field

🌿 Misconceptions About Sustainability

⚙️ BIM's Role in Combating Climate Change

🏗️ Carbon Emissions in Construction

🏆 Notable Sustainability Projects

🎓 Advice for Aspiring Sustainability Professionals

📚 The Role of Mentorship in Career Development

🌱 Final Thoughts on Sustainability

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Sustainability

Sustainability refers to practices and processes that meet present needs without compromising the ability of future generations to meet theirs. In the video, sustainability is a central theme, as the speaker discusses the responsibility of architects to the environment and future generations, emphasizing the importance of efficient, green building practices.

💡Affordable Technology

Affordable technology means providing cost-effective and efficient technological solutions that everyone can access. The speaker highlights this as a challenge in sustainability, arguing that all people should have access to comfortable, efficient technologies, such as more affordable, energy-efficient buildings and devices.

💡Carbon Emissions

Carbon emissions refer to the release of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, primarily from human activities like construction and energy use. The speaker mentions that 40% of carbon emissions come from the built environment, making it crucial for architects to use sustainable methods to reduce this impact.

💡Energy Modeling

Energy modeling involves using software to simulate and analyze the energy performance of buildings. In the video, the speaker talks about how BIM (Building Information Modeling) and various software tools are used to reduce energy consumption and make buildings more sustainable through accurate predictions of energy use.

💡Vernacular Architecture

Vernacular architecture refers to traditional building methods adapted to local environments and cultural needs. The speaker mentions their research into Indian vernacular architecture, such as the 'jali' technique, to explore how these traditional methods can inspire modern sustainable practices.

💡Building Information Modeling (BIM)

BIM is a digital representation of the physical and functional characteristics of a building. The speaker discusses how BIM is used not only for design but also for reducing construction waste, improving energy efficiency, and providing transparency in reporting carbon data, making it a powerful tool in sustainable construction.

💡Embodied Carbon

Embodied carbon refers to the total greenhouse gas emissions associated with the production, transport, and assembly of building materials. The speaker emphasizes the importance of tracking embodied carbon through BIM to make informed decisions that reduce the overall environmental impact of construction.

💡Retrofit

Retrofitting involves upgrading existing buildings to improve energy efficiency and reduce carbon emissions. The speaker explains that instead of demolishing and rebuilding, architects should focus on retrofitting older buildings using BIM to identify inefficient areas that need upgrades, such as windows or HVAC systems.

💡Daylight Analysis

Daylight analysis involves studying how natural light enters and illuminates a building, impacting both energy efficiency and occupant comfort. The speaker mentions using software like Climate Studio to perform daylight analysis as part of their sustainability efforts, ensuring buildings use natural light effectively.

💡Operational Carbon

Operational carbon refers to the carbon emissions produced during the use of a building, primarily through energy consumption. The speaker discusses the importance of minimizing operational carbon by using sustainable materials, improving energy efficiency, and implementing long-lasting building systems.

Highlights

Ashan Rehman emphasizes the importance of making technology accessible to everyone and the challenge of affordability in sustainability.

Ashan Rehman is introduced as a U.S.-based architect and mentor with expertise in sustainability, architecture, and sustainable building certifications.

She highlights the importance of balancing both science and art in architecture, which led her to pursue a career in this field.

Her journey to sustainability was inspired by the realization that architecture is not just about aesthetics but also about responsibility to the environment and future generations.

Rehman discusses how traditional Indian architecture, specifically vernacular methods like the jali design, influenced her interest in sustainable construction.

She highlights how Building Information Modeling (BIM) helps in reducing construction waste and improving the quality of buildings, thus contributing to sustainability.

Rehman explains how different software tools are used in sustainability projects, with tools varying based on the project needs such as daylight analysis, energy modeling, or carbon reporting.

She emphasizes that sustainability should be affordable and accessible to all, and that the cost-benefit ratio of sustainable solutions often becomes favorable over time.

She outlines the major challenge in sustainability, which is the lack of affordable, efficient technology for developing regions compared to more developed countries like the U.S.

Rehman clarifies the misconception that green or sustainable buildings are only for the wealthy, stating that long-term benefits outweigh the initial higher costs.

She discusses how BIM can help report carbon data, improving transparency in material use and reducing the environmental impact of buildings.

Rehman stresses that 40% of carbon emissions come from the built environment, highlighting the critical role architects play in reducing emissions.

She explains how retrofitting existing buildings is a more sustainable option than constructing new buildings, and how BIM aids in identifying areas for improvement.

Rehman shares one of her favorite research projects focused on Indian vernacular architecture, particularly jali design, for improved daylight and thermal comfort.

Rehman offers advice to young professionals entering the sustainability field, suggesting they explore various roles such as energy modeling, ESG consulting, or data analysis within the AEC industry.

She praises the 1s2x BIM professional course, highlighting its role in preparing students for real-world industry challenges while offering mentorship and industry guidance.

Transcripts

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my biggest challenge has been that i

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feel like you know it's very unfair to

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tell people to not use technology i feel

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like everybody should have access to

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technology everybody should have access

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to comfort but as a society we should be

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able to give

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more affordable options of technology

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which is more efficient i think the

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biggest challenge in sustainability

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would be affordability for this reason

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[Music]

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hello everyone my name is arat and i'm

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here with 1s2x presenting another mentor

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interview where we have a chat with

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renowned professionals from all over the

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world

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in this occasion i am proud to interview

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and present to you one of our bim

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professional course mentors ashan rehman

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she is a u.s based architect with a deep

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passion for creating a greener world

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through policies business operations and

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building construction she has a

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demonstrated history of working in

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corporate social responsibilities

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designing modeling and certifying

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sustainable buildings

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during her time at the carnegie mellon

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university she explored the fields of

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sustainable operations building

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performance simulations hvac systems

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generative modeling environmental

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science daylighting and energy finance

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so greetings sapshan it is a pleasure to

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have you joining us today how are you

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i'm good thanks for the introduction

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with us

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no problem

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so

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let's get right into the question shall

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we

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yeah

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excellent so

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ashan you have experience as an

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architect you're a certified led

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professional and have even gotten your

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research published

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can you give us a rundown of your

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professional experience up until now

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yes so i started off as

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with my bachelor's of architecture from

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india from hyderabad and before choosing

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architecture i wanted something that

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you know is somewhere in between

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science and arts and i thought

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architecture would be

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a good way to integrate both and that's

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why i chose to do

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architecture and once i graduated from

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uh my bachelor's

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oneist 2x wasn't around and i didn't

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know

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what to do so

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i was

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in between

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like different uh jobs i did visual

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designing for a bit and then i came back

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to architecture and i was working with

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various architects in india and during

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my host

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in architecture i always wanted to do

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sustainability but then i didn't know uh

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how to pursue it and so i did a lot of

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courses online on coursera i did

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introduction to sustainability and i

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also wrote the igbc ap exam and i was

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working as a designer in a 3d

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visualization company called foyer in

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hyderabad and even though i really loved

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my job i thought that you know i should

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pursue my masters in sustainability

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since it's what i always wanted to do

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and that's why i applied to various

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colleges all over the world and

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i chose carnegie mellon university and

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once i graduated from cmu i started

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working as a sustainability project

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manager

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in new york city at the level function

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excellent

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so

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what was it that attracted you to the

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field of sustainability

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so there are two things um that

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attracted me to sustainability so one

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while i was doing architecture while i

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was studying uh my five years of

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bachelor's i realized that you know

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architecture is not just about

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aesthetics and functions

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and i realized that you know architects

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had like a deeper sense of

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responsibility to the environment and

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the future generations to come and

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that's why sustainability was important

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and i realized my responsibility as an

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architecture and i decided that you know

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i want to pursue sustainability and

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that's where i saw myself in the

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structure of society and another reason

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is like you know

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because i grew up in hyderabad there is

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so much like vernacular aspects in

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hyderabad even like the rest of this so

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much vernacular architecture and all

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these buildings were very sustainable

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like their methods of construction and i

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wanted to do research on how

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you know you can incorporate these uh

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vernacular methods and

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use them to pioneer like uh

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modern technology instead of looking for

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completely new solutions and yeah these

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are the two reasons why i decided to

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pursue

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excellent yeah i mean i agree that

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architecture is much more than just

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designing pretty stuff right

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and parting from that as well

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you have worked on projects that

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actually require like another branch of

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architecture which is managing and

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analyzing a lot of data so

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how has bim helped you with these

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challenges

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so um

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when it comes to

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sustainability uh like

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a lot of people just see the larger

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picture sustainability which is

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consuming less

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electricity like as less energy but a

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sustainability also means like consuming

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less

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holistically so like reducing reusing

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recycle so

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how bim health is you can use like the

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data available through bim to reduce the

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amount of construction based like if

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you're able to

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uh fabricate your

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construction modules you can avoid uh

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over ordering materials

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and you know by reducing this waste

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you're

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you know being more sustainable and it's

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not just about not reaching material if

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you use like the data in

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them and you know fabricate your

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construction you're also um

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making like better quality products

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and when you're building lasts longer

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and the lifespan of your building is

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longer and

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yeah the lifespan of the building is

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longer you are building more

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excellent yeah

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and

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when you have like integrated bim with

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the field of sustainability

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um

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typically what are the some some of the

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software that you use on a daily basis

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for that

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uh so um

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the software that you use uh vary depend

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on what you want the output to be

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so uh like if you are going uh for

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like

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a dating system like heat or

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passive house then you would use another

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software but if you want to do a

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daylight analysis carbon and energy

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analysis then your

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software would be different so while i

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was in carnegie mellon university when i

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was a student i was mostly working with

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climate studio hope tool and

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ladybug and then when i started working

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professionally i had to work with

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completely new software but

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uh you know there's nothing to be

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overwhelmed because there are so many

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softwares that are available in the

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market

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um it might seem difficult and

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overwhelming but as long as you

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understand what the basic

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modeling inputs are for energy modeling

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you should be able to use any software

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which is available so

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in

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my present professional day-to-day life

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i we use

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ecotrope equest and

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excellent

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yeah i mean definitely many people think

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that is like the same bim software over

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and over again and

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i mean many people don't realize that

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revit sometimes isn't even used right

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for you so maybe like never works

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so what i realized is as an energy

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modeler you can't uh like your

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dependency on a 3d model like if your

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model is on sketchup or grasshopper or

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revit that will be the last point in

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selecting your energy modeling software

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like that is not even a priority like

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the other things matter much more and as

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an energy modeler you should be able to

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uh you know use a gpa xml file and use

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any energy modeling software

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excellent

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so part of that like uh

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we talked about the the

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ways that you want to get into the

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sustainability factor

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sector rather

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and also all these

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processes that are taken before

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getting to the modeling

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what do you think are some of the

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biggest challenges that you have faced

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as a professional in the field of

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sustainability

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um

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so this is something that's always been

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on my mind even

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like before i started working

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professionally like um

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for example if you see

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um the amount of energy

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u.s consumes versus india like

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america consumes 10 times more

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electricity than india even though like

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the population of india is one billion

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the population of u.s is like 300

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million and um it doesn't mean that

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india is more sustainable it just means

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that you know in india people don't have

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access to like

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uh dishwashers and washing machine and

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air conditioners so

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my biggest challenge has been that i

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feel like you know it's very unfair to

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tell people to not use technology i feel

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like everybody should have access to

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technology everybody should have access

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to comfort but um

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like

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as a society we should be able to give

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more affordable options of things

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technology which is more efficient

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and i think everybody should have access

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to like a building construction or

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like

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equipment which is more efficient and

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i think the biggest challenge in

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sustainability would be affordability

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yeah

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yeah definitely um and i agree with you

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a lot on that because for example all

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this discourse about like using straws

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or something like that i think it's

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putting the responsibility on the

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individual

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yeah instead of like you know seeing

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like the full picture of it and yeah i

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mean also talking about how not

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everybody has access to the same

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technology and

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infrastructure is also kind of important

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and i don't think it's being discussed

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enough

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which is something that actually leads

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to the next question which is that

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you know recently there's been a lot of

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discussion about sustainable development

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right

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um

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besides what we just mentioned what are

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some misconceptions that you would like

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to clear about what you do in your field

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um so it's still slightly related to

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what i just mentioned the the

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misconception is that uh

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green or sustainability is only

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something that

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the rich can afford

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so even though the first

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cost of price might be high

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like if you look at

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the payback and the lifespan of the

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building like you're eventually going to

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make that money back if you invest in

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something that is sustainable and

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in a few years you're going to start

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getting a bank for your buck because you

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know you're spending less on electricity

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or gas so even though it seems like it's

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expensive in the long run it's

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not going to be expensive

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yeah

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[Music]

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and

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for example like when we're talking also

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about the whole thing of sustainability

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like global warming

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um how do you think that bim can help in

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the efforts against uh global warming

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and climate change

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okay so one point i already mentioned is

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about the basis like how you can use

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them to reduce

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uh the amount of construction waste and

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the other way

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can be used and is being used is uh

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for reporting carbon data so whether

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it's

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embodied carbon or operational carbon

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using them produces a lot of

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transparency so

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from the beginning like the conceptual

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design stage to you know the design

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development stage there's always

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transparency about what materials you're

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using and what's the embodied component

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of each material and um

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where you're sourcing your materials

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from and because you know bim stores

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this information about what materials

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you're using

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i think

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having the carbon data

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can really help in combating

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global warming and

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another way bim is used for this is uh

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for like retrofitting and renovating

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buildings like uh

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breaking down a building and

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constructing a new building is never a

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solution you should try to retrofit what

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you already have and by using you know

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the data that you have you can just see

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which part of your building is not very

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efficient like if you should uh replace

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your windows or you know add more

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insulation or just replace your hvac

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system like you can use

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them to make these retrofitting

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decisions

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excellent

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yeah i think that

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[Music]

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most like we said previously

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a lot of people think that bim and like

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you know something of the real world

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like global warming don't actually link

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up but like you said if we actually

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truly see the processes that we're doing

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we can actually see how it's helping

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i mean simply as like you said reducing

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the amount of time that we spend

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doing we work which is something that we

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struggle with a lot in the construction

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industry

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um and also the transparency and factor

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of it right like

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um

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we can reduce all the time needed for

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like

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uh

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things that maybe are inflated prices

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are inflated or like even sometimes a

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ghost

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tasks or schedules

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i think that

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while not uh

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as popular as like putting a green

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building

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i think that they can also help like you

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said and i think that's something very

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interesting to be discussing

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like currently

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on this stage particularly that we are

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now like adopting them

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in many countries right

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so

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go ahead yeah and um

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like a lot of people just assume that

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most of the carbon emissions are coming

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from industry you know and factories but

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actually 40 of the carbon emissions come

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from the build environment so yeah

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architects have a huge role to play and

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i think fortunately we are

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in a stage where we don't have to

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like tell the importance of

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sustainability to people i think

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everybody now knows that climate change

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is real and global warming is exist it's

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just that they don't know

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what to do about it

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yeah yeah definitely the other way is

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talking with a colleague about how

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for example here in mexico we do have a

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lot of

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like

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emissions generated by the construction

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industry

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but people

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don't think that's real because like

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most of the construction here is like

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auto construction so like

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people build their own stuff but

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they don't realize that for example when

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people self-construct they're wasting

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more money they're wasting more

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resources they're spending more time

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constructing and that also adds to like

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water pollution air pollution

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and all of these like uh results of

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not efficiently managing construction

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and i think

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it's also very important

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to

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make notice within our own industry

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how we also like contributing to

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the harm right but also i think it's

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important to recognize how we can help

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as well

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um and parting from that uh you've been

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involved in a lot of projects like we

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said that deal with a lot of data with a

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lot of

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um analyzing for example energy

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sustainability how they can reduce costs

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and stuff

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which one

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of the projects

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do you think would be your favorite

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um

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i'm gonna mention two projects actually

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and it's going to

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fall back to what we spoke just now uh

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so one project is um

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i something that i worked with uh with

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my peers at candy melon university

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ammunition she's also from

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sba and uh it's

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we both wanted to study about you know

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indian vernacular architecture so we

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chose uh this uh method of construction

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used in india called the jali

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uh like it has different names in other

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cultures like it's called mashrabya in

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the middle east and in india it's called

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sejali and we wanted to you know

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research on that and work on like

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the solution ratio and the perforation

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size and alter that and see how you can

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you know increase the amount of daylight

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in a room and

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also uh

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like give more terminal comfort by you

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know

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using venturi effect of them

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so i think that is uh one project that

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we both are very excited to work on and

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another project which was

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like more of a fun logic and was not a

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research project is um

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i had imagined uh

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it was a comic and i had imagined a

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future where you know technology is

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taking over the world and the main

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protagonist is

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very lazy very dull but he's still able

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to live a very sustainable life

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because you know technology is helping

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him live a very sustainable life and i

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have given a few drawings and examples

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of how that happens so that's also one

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of my favorite questions

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yeah thank you for sharing them i think

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uh i mean we would invite our readers to

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go and check her website

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because that's where all of these

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projects are and actually the comic is

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also included there so go and check it

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out

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[Music]

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and also talking about like um

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career-wise

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um do you have any advice for young

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professionals who might want to

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specialize in sustainability

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uh so

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like

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you know most of the people in india are

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engineers are doctors so architecture

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itself is a very niche profession

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and sustainability is even more niche

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but when it comes to sustainability

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there are many fields that people can

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pursue it's not just energy modeling so

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like me and my peers who did

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master of sustainable design at carnegie

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mellon together all of us are working

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now in different fields but in

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sustainability in the a industry

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so people who want to pursue

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sustainability

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um

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in the aac industry uh i think should uh

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be aware of what all they can do so that

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you know they can choose

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like a college or a course which caters

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to you know what they want to research

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about so

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the examples of you know this uh

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sustainability in the asc industry would

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be like one would be energy modeling

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one can be um an esg consultant which is

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like um an environment social problems

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and there is a lot of scope for that you

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can be a data analyst

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uh you can be a software developer you

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can develop all these you know softwares

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for um energy modeling so there are many

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things that you can do in sustainability

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so my advice would be to you know

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know why exactly you want to do

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sustainability and where you see

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yourself contributing and

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like choose a course accordingly

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excellent i actually didn't know that

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the architecture was

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there's not many architects i guess in

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india is that correct yeah it's mostly

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engineers mostly

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doctors

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wow i didn't know that actually here

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mexico is kind of the other way around

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yeah i mean there's a lot of like health

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professionals but there's also a lot of

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civil engineers and a lot of architects

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and a lot of lawyers as well

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but uh yeah i definitely didn't know

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that so

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um i think that is your advice is very

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valuable especially because of that

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because there is now so much people that

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want to delve in in the field

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and i think that your efforts and your

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work actually have to or will contribute

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actually to

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people seeing like all the branches that

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architects can actually uh

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delve into right

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um so part of this efforts of getting to

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know like more possibilities in the

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construction industry is the bim

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professional course of 1s2x

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which you what you are a mentor of

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so

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um

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how you found sorry working with bonus

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2x starting so far what has been your

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experience

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so um

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so when i did architecture like

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everybody in my family they are doctors

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so i didn't have

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uh anybody to go to for advice like

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career

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like whether i should be working or if i

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should pursue my master's immediately so

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i think one is to x uh provides

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it's not just teaching you bim and

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making your industry ready i think the

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best thing about 102x is it also

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provides industry guidance you can talk

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to

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people and mentors from the industry who

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are doing different things in different

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countries and you always have them

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available for advice so you can

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uh everybody is very approachable

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and

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you know that's one great thing about

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manage to ex and it's also helping you

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with you know uh learning them and

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grasshoppers and you know it's clearly

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gonna help you

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when you start working professionally

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um

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and i think uh the best thing about the

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students from manuscripts is like when

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you are

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probably have the access to maybe

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something similar in college like you're

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forced to do it because you know you

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have to ask graduate and get your degree

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but in minus 2x people whoever like

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whoever has taken this course has taken

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it because they wanted to because they

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want to improve themselves they want to

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be better so like i've always found that

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the students really really want to learn

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and you know it's nice

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to have that experience as a mentor when

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like your students are really interested

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in

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learning and you know sustainability is

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an elective in

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the

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bim course and you know

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it's nice that

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it is an elective because

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sustainability is a big part of the

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ac industry and everybody should have

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some knowledge about it so it's nice

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that 1s2x prepares all these students

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very holistically for

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the real world and for the industry

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excellent

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well i just want to thank you alshan for

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your wise words and your advice i agree

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i think that the efforts that are being

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made

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not only by 1s2x but also from

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professionals like you

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that actively go and delve into the

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research of sustainability and how to

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merge

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and the practice of architectural

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resistant ability i think is very

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important

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not just in india but i think that we're

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all over the world we need more than

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than ever

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these efforts

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and recognizing how

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we are harming as well with our

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professional but

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profession sorry

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but also the ways that we can help that

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we can uh

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try to fix you know at least for the

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next generations to come

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so

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do you have any parting words that you

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want to add at the

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after this interview

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um

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well i think i just

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uh

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say that you know look at

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the

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bigger picture and

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the impact that you're creating to the

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environment it's not always about

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how

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you are saving money if you're being

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more sustainable or how your health

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might improve because you're being more

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sustainable think about

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the environment and everybody as

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a whole because

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like as things get worse as the climate

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change happens it's not the rich people

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that are going to suffer it's going to

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be

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the poor people that are going to

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just

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be kinder

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[Music]

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yeah

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excellent i agree totally

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um so yeah this was the interview with

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abshan rechman once again i thank you so

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much for your time i think that

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everything you said and shared was very

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valuable and i hope that the readers

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that will be checking this interview

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later in the website as well in video

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will be able to

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pick on the ways that they can improve

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their profession

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uh so yeah thank you so much for

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watching and thank you option for your

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time

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thank you so much bye bye

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[Music]

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you

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