2023年クリプト・web3最大の注目プロジェクトSui!そのインフラ構築を行うMysten LabsのCEO Evan Chengインタビュー!
Summary
TLDRIn this interview, Evan Cheng, the tech entrepreneur behind Sui, discusses his journey from Apple and Meta to founding Mysten Labs. He outlines Sui's mission to create internet infrastructure that empowers developers and consumers, contrasting it with existing blockchain models. Cheng emphasizes the importance of building a community and ecosystem that prioritizes real-world applications and consumer benefits, highlighting upcoming projects in gaming, finance, and social products that leverage Sui's unique design.
Takeaways
- 😀 Evan, the tech business veteran with 26 years of experience, is the founder of Mysten Labs and has a mission to build infrastructure for the internet.
- 🌟 Evan's career includes 10 years at Apple and 6.5 years at Meta, where he focused on solving complex technical and product problems.
- 🚀 Mysten Labs' first project, Sui, aims to solve the 'ownership layer problem' for the internet, offering a different approach from existing blockchains.
- 🔍 Sui is designed to be a public blockchain that is open and decentralized, with efforts being made to establish the Sui Foundation to support the community.
- 💡 Evan's interest in crypto was sparked by the potential he saw in blockchain to address centralization issues in the internet, empowering developers and consumers.
- 🏦 Centralization in the internet is problematic as it leads to big companies controlling distribution and profit, squeezing out smaller creators and businesses.
- 🛠 The goal of Sui is to enable developers to create new types of products that benefit consumers by facilitating direct relationships and cutting out middlemen.
- 🌐 Evan emphasizes that Sui's approach is different from other blockchains, even though they use the same programming language, Move, which was designed to be cross-platform.
- 🤝 Mysten Labs is engaging with brands and companies across various sectors to build trust and showcase the potential of Sui for real-world applications.
- 🌍 Evan sees Japan as a unique market with a culture of thoughtfulness and sophistication, which aligns well with the careful and innovative approach of Sui.
- 🔮 Upcoming developments for Sui include a vibrant gaming ecosystem, DeFi innovations, and unique consumer products that leverage the platform's design to solve real problems.
Q & A
What is the background of Evan and what led him to the blockchain and crypto space?
-Evan has been in the tech and business industry for 26 years, with a focus on solving complex technical and product problems. He spent 10 years at Apple and 6.5 years at Meta. His interest in blockchain and crypto was sparked around 2016-2018, leading him to work on the Libra/Diem project at Facebook before eventually co-founding Mysten Labs.
What is the mission of Mysten Labs and what problem are they trying to solve?
-Mysten Labs aims to build infrastructure that could become the fabric of the internet. Their first project, Sui, is focused on solving the ownership layer problem for the internet, offering a different approach from existing blockchains.
What is the relationship between Mysten Labs and the Sui Foundation?
-Mysten Labs is developing the Sui blockchain, while the Sui Foundation, a separate organization, is focused on growing and supporting the community. Evan is the only personnel overlap between the two entities, serving at the board level.
Why did Evan and his co-founders decide to leave Meta to start Mysten Labs?
-Evan and his co-founders left Meta because they wanted to build something significant in the blockchain space and believed they could do it better outside the constraints of a large corporation.
What is unique about Sui compared to other blockchains in the market today?
-Sui is designed to be very different from existing blockchains, with a unique programming model, data model, and approach to tokenization that aims to be more efficient and suitable for a wide range of applications.
How does Evan view the current state of the internet and its centralization?
-Evan sees the centralization of the internet as a significant problem, with large platforms controlling distribution and profit, leading to a lack of transparency and fairness for content creators and consumers.
What is the potential impact of Sui on the gaming industry according to Evan?
-Sui could enable gaming companies to engage with customers in new ways, ensuring that their efforts are not wasted and allowing them to retain loyalty beyond individual games.
How does Evan perceive the role of blockchain in commerce and finance?
-Evan believes that blockchain can offer a more efficient and flexible approach to commerce and finance by cutting out middlemen and replacing them with trusted code.
What is Evan's perspective on the importance of building products for the mass market in the blockchain space?
-Evan emphasizes the need for developers to think beyond building products for existing enthusiasts in the space, to create products that can be adopted by the mass market and solve real consumer problems.
What are some of the upcoming developments in the Sui ecosystem that Evan is excited about?
-Evan is excited about the development of a vibrant gaming ecosystem, innovative commerce products, and unique designs that leverage the unique capabilities of Sui, aiming to solve real problems for both developers and consumers.
What message does Evan have for the audience interested in Mysten Labs and Sui?
-Evan encourages the audience to look deeper into the technology and consider building products for the mass market, emphasizing the importance of solving real problems and not just catering to those already in the blockchain space.
Outlines
😀 Introduction to Evan and Sui's Mission
Evan introduces himself as a tech and business professional with 26 years of experience, including tenures at Apple and Meta. He expresses his interest in solving complex problems and his journey into the blockchain space after discovering crypto. The mission of Sui, a project initiated by Evan and his co-founders, is to build internet infrastructure with a focus on solving the ownership layer problem. Sui aims to be different from existing blockchains, with a public blockchain that is decentralized and not controlled by any single entity. The Sui Foundation is established to support and grow the community around the Sui ecosystem.
🤔 Centralization Issues in the Internet and Sui's Role
Evan discusses the centralization problem in the current internet landscape, where large companies control distribution and profit, leaving little transparency or earnings for content creators. He highlights the impact of platform policies on businesses and consumers, using examples like Apple's App Store policies affecting companies like Epic Games. Sui's goal is to empower developers to create a more coordinated internet, replacing middlemen with trusted code, thus facilitating transactions between creators and consumers directly.
🛠️ Sui's Technical Philosophy and Differentiation
Evan explains Sui's technical approach, emphasizing the differences between Sui and other blockchains, despite similarities in programming language. He criticizes the general architecture of blockchain, including data models and token primitives, as not making sense for efficient storage and development. Sui is being built from the ground up with a different programming model and use of the Move language, designed to be cross-platform and support the unique vision of Sui.
🎯 Sui's Vision and Impact on Various Industries
The conversation turns to Sui's vision for impacting various industries like gaming, commerce, and finance. Evan outlines how Sui can enable new types of products beneficial to consumers and developers by facilitating direct relationships and cutting out middlemen. He stresses the importance of showcasing Sui's capabilities through innovative products that can demonstrate its value to a broader audience.
🌏 Evan's Visit to Tokyo and Sui's Global Outreach
Evan shares his reasons for visiting Tokyo, highlighting the opportunity to meet with brands and companies interested in Sui. He discusses the importance of building relationships and trust with potential partners and the role of the Sui Foundation in supporting the growth of the ecosystem. Evan also touches on the uniqueness of the Japanese market and its potential for embracing Sui's technology, considering the cultural and business environment.
🚀 Sui's Upcoming Developments and Message to the Community
Evan anticipates a vibrant gaming ecosystem and the development of innovative financial products on Sui. He emphasizes the importance of building consumer-oriented products and providing developers with the tools to create without worrying about the complexities of smart contract development. Evan encourages the community to look deeper into Sui's technology and to think beyond building products only for the existing crypto audience, aiming for broader market appeal.
🙏 Closing Remarks and Thanks
The conversation concludes with thanks and well-wishes for Evan's work on Sui and the upcoming launch of the ecosystem. There is an expression of hope for future meetings and collaborations.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Evan
💡Sui
Highlights
Evan introduces himself as a tech business professional with 26 years of experience, including 10 years at Apple and 6.5 years at Meta.
Mission of Sui is to build infrastructure that could become the fabric of the internet, starting with solving the ownership layer problem for the internet.
Sui's approach is different from existing blockchains, aiming to provide a unique solution to the market.
Evan's interest in crypto was sparked by the potential he saw in blockchain to solve centralization issues in the internet.
Centralization of the internet is problematic for consumers and stifles the original intent of the internet as an open platform.
Sui's mission is to empower developers to create products that benefit consumers by reducing the role of middlemen.
Evan explains the difference between Sui and other blockchains, emphasizing the unique use of the Move programming language.
Sui's vision includes a vibrant gaming ecosystem and innovative commerce products that leverage blockchain technology.
The Sui Foundation is being established to support and grow the community, separate from Mission Labs.
Evan discusses the challenges and opportunities of running a blockchain company during a period of high demand and attention.
The importance of building trust and relationships with potential partners in the blockchain space.
Evan's visit to Tokyo is for meeting potential partners and discussing the future of Sui in the Japanese market.
Cultural insights into the Japanese market and how it differs from other Asian regions in terms of brand dominance and approach to innovation.
Evan sees potential in Japan's conservative approach to web3, as it aligns with Sui's focus on solving real problems for consumers.
Upcoming expectations for the Sui ecosystem include unique gaming and social products that leverage Sui's distinct design.
A message to the audience to look deeper into Sui's technology and to think beyond building products only for existing crypto enthusiasts.
Transcripts
uh thank you so much Evan for this
opportunity I'm so happy to have you in
my channel I'm so glad thank you so much
thank you for having me thank you so um
today we want to go over just a brief
introduction about yourself Mr love sui
and what the mission of sui what are you
guys doing and roadmap ahead and
something alongside
um of those stories that I want to ask
you is that okay yeah sounds good okay
so um the first of all can you briefly
introduce about yourself Mr lab and Tsui
yeah so I'm Evans uh being the tech
business for 26 years uh always kind of
a you know interesting solving complex
technical problems and product problems
spent 10 years at Apple followed by six
and a half years in meta during my
career I've done a lot of different
things but mostly wrong program language
and some of the complex you know sort of
system software has some recognition by
you know in the space before probably
build software that runs out every
phones out there and every desktop
before so
um you know kingly interest in kind of
the the sort of the interface between
developers and software and how they
impact consumers so fast forward a few
years
um you know so
2016 17 18 there was a time so when I
discovered you know kind of blockchain
crypto and always had an interest in
building kind of building something
significant in their space decided to
stay inside Facebook to kind of
basically things on R D efforts for the
Libra slash DM kind of project that's
sort of my
professional career started my
professional career in this website in
crypto
um
fast forward to
2021 uh you know so the DM project was
running down the team were very very
interested in sort of like kind of you
know Flex what they can build and so
that's where I decided if I want
something done right I maybe I have to
do it myself so I left along with my
co-founders who started missing lab so
Mission lab is a software company our
job is to build infrastructure that you
know kind of we hope they will become
the fabric of the internet yeah um you
know so we the first project we take on
the big big thing we take on first is
solving the ownership layer problem for
the internet that that's the Genesis of
Suite right that's how we start kind of
thinking about what um kind of you know
what that should look like right that's
going to be very different to the the
blockchain that exists on the Block on
the on the market today and and so that
you know we we in the process of
building three you know getting close to
mainnet three is a
kind of public blockchain is open
network you know in the spirit of
decentralization you certainly cannot be
controlled by a mission lab or any
commercial entities so we're already
taking the efforts to help establish the
free Foundation which is now a
completely different organization
um you know with no overlap of personnel
yeah except at the board level one
person that's me
um you know so you know so that's the
sort of relationship so going forward
the three Foundation is you know we'll
be kind of focusing on growing the
community supporting the community
handling a lot of the
sort of the various programs relatives
we you know we believe over time there
will be like like an internet any kind
of open software infrastructure will be
lots and lots of different organizations
different entities would contribute to
the growth of three okay ecosystem so
that's sort of a you know a quick tier
of Dr thank you oh sweet how what made
you interested in crypto yeah it's a
good question so you know early on just
a lot of curious curiosity you know what
is this concept can do over the years
when I kind of looking at the you know
thinking about it talking to developers
understand the potential we kind of come
to a thesis right so
um
you know I'll say people probably don't
recognize you know how important Webster
is and what problem is solving right so
the centralization internet is really
real right if you look at around the big
big major platforms the big companies in
web 2 today from Google YouTube to you
know Instagram Tick Tock to the app
stores right it's basically uh big
companies the middlemen essentially uh
squeezing all the profit they're
controlling distribution and that's the
way to for them to make money right so
um user generate contents are probably
what part YouTube everybody know the
story but very very few really have made
you know kind of there's very little
transparency the very few sort of
creators have actually made a you know a
business a living out of it and the num
you know you're probably seeing a lot
hear lots of stories like that right you
know very popular video ended up making
very little money for the Creator right
tick tock or whatnot uh so that's the
example right and and today these days
is even more jarring right because all
these platform themselves or this
implications itself are sort of being
squeezed by
you know Apple which load over them
right by the app store right Apple can
basically penalize like epic game right
by removing them for right disagreement
disagreeing with sun right they tell you
what to do how much you charge right
what payment you you do they take 30
right
um so and they uh and their policy
changes have a major impact on the
business such as Facebook which in turn
have major impact on small medium
business in how they require customers
so the centralization of the internet is
actually really really bad for consumers
that is very very far away from where
the internet start out to be
um so so that's the problem we're trying
to solve we're not the one solving
ourselves we are hoping to empower
developer to solve this okay right so
because we want to get the internet back
to more of a coordination right creators
consumers and you have a platform in
between you know you have a sort of
facilitator right the third party to
help you facilitate the transaction
between them and that is the power of
blockchain web3 is about this
intermediation right replacing the
middleman with some with code that you
trust right so that that's the theory
that's the philosophy behind it and we
believe that's really worth solving and
now a lot of people compare
because the
the language you guys both use yeah but
um I believe a lot of people kind of
misunderstand
um some concept different concept and
also can you explain
um so yes right I mean it's kind of
silly people equating the blockchains to
be the same just based on the
programming language that you use right
you know uh the the concepts are
actually quite different right so the
app testing you know some of the
colleagues we had back at meta you know
it's a you know it's a reasonable
approach to commercialize open source
software you know that's building big
tech companies there's tons of tons of
examples out there
um yeah completely cool we my co-founder
and I when we left we consider that
option for about half second and you
know it was not really ever serious
considered right because the reason we
want to leave meta to do something
yourself and want to solve problem is
also recognition that we don't believe
the blockchain the general architecture
um makes sense yeah right we think the
data model doesn't make sense right
token is a primitive makes very little
sense right the programming model where
you throw away dependency information
you're now capturing information makes
no sense
uh you know data that's in in the global
states that makes no sense right it's
going to make storage very very
expensive so all those things to us
doesn't make sense right so we want to
build something different from the
ground up yes we use move where I move
was con you know designed by my
co-founder Sam and it's meant to be
cross-platform so obviously we use move
but even the language the program model
the way you use move it's going to be
very different so
and I think I think you know for people
who haven't had the chance to re look
deeply into the technology it's probably
a reasonable assumption right both teams
come out meta and there's some
similarities in terms of language
but you know I think we're starting to
get very very clear indication from the
developer Community they recognize uh
the the power of our platform and so
we're really really happy with how
things are shaping up okay thank you
um you already briefly touched up on
this but um what's the really the big
mission what's the things that you guys
want to accomplish through this project
yeah so that's a good question right and
and to answer the question properly you
really have to
you know talk about the results while
we're envisioning
um so if you think about people ask
often us ask what vertical we're going
after right because the things we think
about it really is not per vertical it's
really vertical it's really you know
how they impact the consumer right and
what are the impact the developers so if
you look at gaming which is a big part
of the early launch of sui you know a
lot of gaming partners are you know kind
of utilizing blockchain web Suite to for
customer engagement to them is very very
important how do they ensure the gamers
their efforts are not going to waste
right how can we they retain the royalty
loyalty beyond the game right
um so that that's one right in Commerce
it's slightly different right it's it's
also engagement but in very different
way right so now brands are looking
around and say Hey you know acquiring
customers become very expensive
engagement becomes very difficult
because
the advertising model the data is a lot
worse than before because all the
privacy policy changes around that so
they're looking at this opportunity to
have a direct relationship with consumer
right you know brand and consumer
directly bypassing middlemen right and
then in the financial world it's all
about
this intermediation for efficiency right
if you create a new kind of Capital
Market new kind of financial product if
you cut up the middleman replacing with
programs you're going to have a more
efficient product uh may be more
flexible or for different kind of
service so everyone is different but
ultimately the the sheer common thing
that is new type of product that's going
to be beneficial to the consumers that's
going to allow developer
different ways to you know sort of
interact with their customer it's going
to be a very different relationship
between so again the triangle you know
consumer creator
and the platform distribution platform
so that's what it's about right that's
what we were trying to enable uh and to
do that right we need partner that sort
of build or showcase yeah right the
examples which people
sort of like
couldn't recognize the value right
because very similar to what's happening
in the generative AI space right it took
the technology has been there for a
while and but it took chat gbt to get
everybody excited because you actually
can see the the benefit you can see the
result right so that's what we're
looking for
um so long answer to your question is
that's where we're looking for those
showcase example yeah that that sort of
give us a pass forward this whole Space
a path forward to you know create more
value for consumers okay thank you
um how do you feel how is it like
running a web through company or
blockchain company in this type of
period of time
it's exhilarating because there's a lot
of opportunity and exhilarating also
because we believe in what we're doing
we're building and it's really really
great to see it coming
together it's really great to see the
community
the excitement from the developers the
partners we work with it's also very
challenging this is very demanding you
know
with attention
you know there's a lot of Demand on time
or energy so so that's that's
challenging part fortunately we have a
great team right uh and the street
Foundation also have a great team so so
that you know sort of the sheer
responsibility Among Us
um
well before you work for the Apple meta
big companies but they also have
shareholders
um and then now you have rather a
community is it different yeah it's very
different right when you work for a big
company especially my real back then is
focused more on Building Technology you
kind of insulate the phone all that
right right who cares right you know
there are people you know deal with
investor relation you know uh it's very
very different than in webstery when
you're building first of all
completely different position than I was
before
um you know so there is that part right
there's a lot of expectation
um you know and there's we also in a way
how we behave shapes so the culture of
the community yeah right if you're
professional the community is going to
be more professional uh if we care about
developers and a lot of focus more on on
the developers so you know we're setting
examples so so that all the eyes on us
and the Empire is very very different
okay let's um go to the east Tokyo this
week
um what made you come to Dubai I mean
what made you come to Tokyo
um yeah the timing is actually you know
I came this week not because it is Tokyo
because we know a lot of the people
going to be here a lot of people want to
make meet uh you know we have a lot of
conversation with you know Brands and
big companies in all different sectors
they're interesting website right as you
know Japan is open for business right
and that's that's really exciting
um you know so I have a lot of friends
and a lot of partners that that's
excited about exploring the space three
so I'm here to share my thoughts within
answer the questions see how we can work
together
oh that's Premier units um you know I
know there's a lot of events and parties
but you know that's that's not for me
right but yeah but have you guys been
speaking to like Japanese companies or
you just started or how is the situation
um there's been some conversation for a
while now you know it's it's a you know
first you you really use
you know sort of we've been building
right it's great to you know sort of
share our progress with these potential
Partners to to ensure so they understand
what we're about can show them progress
and result uh building a relationship is
really important build trust
um and you can imagine a lot of these
companies are when when thinking about
kind of doing something very very
different
the amount of effort they have goes
through about thinking they have to to
go you know put into these products so
so we're just here to help them right
our partners are essential to the
long-term to the success of this
platform so we just want to offer them
the best support the only way we're
going to be successful is is if they are
successful right so that's priming it
right we've been having some
conversation with a number of Japanese
firms
um you know it's just it's just really
exciting to see
this relationship will come to something
some some fruition real real products
the benefit consumer will come out okay
yeah do you see any
um uniqueness in Japan market and then
something similar to other Asian region
or like something in common yeah
Japan is a very unique
um you know I think
culturally
as well as sort of you know well first
of all culturally is more
very thoughtful you know in Japanese has
always been very thoughtful they care
about their value to society to the
world
potentially even before their own
benefit profit right so that's very
unique that reflects in in the products
it's very sophisticated right as well
very detailed so those are all great and
also you know sort of more dominant by
bigger established Brands
biggest IP
kind of creation country in the world
right some of the big big IP so lots and
lots of unique elements about Japan
which is very very different from
let's say
you know a lot of the chinese-speaking
countries some of the country that have
you know sort of more of a startup you
know kind of vibe to it quite different
even in gaming I think the approach you
know is the Japanese gaming
company is taking is quite different
than say you know the Korean gaming
companies yeah very unique okay and then
do you see
um potentials because now Japanese
government try to not just open to
abroad but they're specifically
targeting on what three and then the
culture wise web3 and Japanese a little
bit conservative culture kind of sees
contradiction maybe potentially but what
do you think
any of the
yes or no right and I think I think you
know I think again right Webster really
is not about
speculations you know airdrops party
Vibes
um it's actually about solving a real
problem right so so if you think from
that angle the conservative approach the
Japanese company are taking is actually
quite compatible right how do you offer
you know some you know to let consumer
control their own asset but in a way
provide them with scar rails safety net
that's actually really really important
and I think Japan has Market has an
opportunity to set example how it's been
how can it be done right so again I'm
using this example I've I shared a
number of times is well you think what
happened with aft market right the
concept is great give Creator another
way to reach the consumer
but what we see is
the centralized Marketplace are
controlling whether they pay royalty
right that if you can't even protect the
Creator in that way how you're going to
protect the consumer so uh these
products really require different design
different thinking uh you know this is
one example right roti's for example
what about kyc ml for payments for other
kind of use cases for security for
financial products what about copyright
infringement problem how do you ensure
people creating the asset on chain asset
actually have the rights to create them
how do you verify how do you where do
you store the test station what's the
equivalent of a baseball card and the
baseball card which is authenticated
signature what's equivalent in that how
do you attach more information to the
asset so you know this is actually very
compatible with the Way Suite think
about you know sort of the the building
block
so so yeah we're actually extremely
excited about that opportunity okay
um going back to the silly ecosystem
what's the
um something that we can expect from you
know you guys for this maybe summer or
something this year and a little bit
like maybe too early to talk but like
early next year or something like that
well
um
we're going to have a very vibrant
gaming kind of ecosystem even from the
beginning
we are seeing a lot of the sort of the
D5 on-chem you know Finance how we want
to call it starting to develop uh for
example we're we're partnering with with
a startup building a debug which is an
Unchained order book the difference here
is it's public utility it's probably
good and then we want
you know it's about laying the
groundwork laying out all the
infrastructure for consumer product to
be built in the right way so it's pretty
exciting
um
you know gaming is exciting some
Commerce products we're going to see is
on the social product that they're
clearly are coming are very exciting and
very Innovative they use a lot of the
unique design of our suite so
again I think at this point a lot of
most of everybody's experimenting yeah
right in Webster you can point into this
example that example uh just do what
that product done you have a chance
you're going to be successful it's about
discovering that right so
um we're going to see a lot of also
unique product and that's that's a great
starting point a lot more product with
at least consumers in mind solving real
problems a lot of products that with
developers in mind solving their pain
point over time you know we want three
to be almost abstract away from the
product Builder right they always have
to think about only thing that I should
think about is like well do I want to
give control the asset in their product
to to be controlled by the consumer then
they build use three they may not need
to think too much about the complexity
of smart contract development there will
be different tools and integration kind
of middleware that help then solve those
kind of problems so right now we're
basically starting from the ground right
ground layer and and we'll see expect to
see that build up so
you know you know the time is running
out so lastly can you please give some
message to the audience maybe Japanese
audience or audience just in general
who's looking forward to your product
um so I would say
you know really look a little bit deeper
uh for for you know the consumers right
and I think I think
um if you are
excited about web's really excited about
the different blockchain technology look
deeper uh what we see is really really
very different uh
um like pretty much every aspect so you
know how the pipeline Works through the
programming model everything is very
different if you are a developer totally
do that but also think about building
product for Mass market and I think
that's a message I want to convey too
often we see developer in the space uh
only thinking about sort of building
products for the DJs for people already
in the space that that ultimately limits
not just your audience but also your
creativity
so so think beyond that
um yeah those are will be the message I
have to convey thank you so much thank
you so much so much for your time
despite your busy schedule and hopefully
um I can see some somewhere else and
also
we wish you for the big success thank
you launch and ecosystem thank you thank
you thank you so much for having me yeah
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