The Greatest Mystery of All Time - Where Do Valve Stem Nuts Go?

Summary

In this video, the presenter grapples with conflicting advice on tube tire valve stem nut placement, comparing Honda's factory setup with Michelin's instructions. After a humorous detour involving unhelpful AI and customer service responses, the video explores various forum opinions and concludes with practical advice. For street use, two nuts outside the wheel are recommended for valve stem security. Off-road, no outer nut is advised to prevent damage when deflating tires, with the inner nut ensuring a tight seal. The video also critiques some manufacturer practices and emphasizes the importance of nut positioning for tire longevity.

Takeaways

• 🔧 The factory setup from Honda places one nut fully tightened at the base of the valve stem and another tightened reasonably to the wheel.
• 🛠️ Michelin's instructions contradict Honda's setup, suggesting both nuts should be above the wheel, not under it.
• 🤔 The script writer faced confusion due to conflicting information from different sources, including Michelin's own packaging which showed different methods.
• 🏍️ For street riding with proper tire inflation, it's recommended to have two nuts on the outside of the wheel, with the first nut finger-tight against the wheel and the second nut locking it in place.
• 🏎️ Offroad riding may require no nuts on the outside of the valve stem to allow for tire rotation without damaging the valve stem when the tire deflates.
• 🔩 The top nut serves as a tool for installing and resetting the valve stem, especially useful in off-road scenarios where tire slippage can occur.
• ⚙️ The bottom nut under the wheel on off-road applications strengthens the connection between the valve stem and the tube, preventing damage from the washer bouncing.
• 🚫 Over-tightening the top nut can rip the valve stem out due to the rubber connection, which is why a bottom nut is important to prevent such damage.
• 💧 A nut under the wheel can prevent moisture and debris from entering the space between the tube, tire, and wheel, which is crucial for street applications where tires last longer.
• 🛠️ The script concludes that the best compromise for off-road use is to have a nut tightened to the valve cap, providing flexibility while preventing complete valve stem retraction.

Q & A

What is the issue with the tube type tire and valve stem nuts as described in the script?

The issue is the conflicting instructions on how to position the nuts on the valve stem of a tube type tire. The factory setup from Honda and the instructions from Michelin differ, causing confusion on the correct method.

How does the factory setup from Honda CRF300l position the nuts on the valve stem?

According to the script, the factory setup from Honda CRF300l has one nut bolted all the way down and tightened to the bottom of the valve stem, and the other nut is tightened down to the wheel reasonably tight.

What does the Michelin inner tube box suggest regarding the positioning of the nuts on the valve stem?

The Michelin inner tube box suggests that both nuts should go above the wheel, with no nuts under the wheel, contradicting the factory setup from Honda.

Why did the speaker have difficulty installing the tire with the new Michelin inner tubes?

The speaker could not get the bead to seat properly, and the tire could not be installed onto the wheel no matter how much the tube was inflated, which led to the discovery of conflicting instructions.

What was the advice from Chat GPT when the speaker asked for help?

The advice from Chat GPT was unusable and vague, essentially telling the speaker to 'go f... yourself,' which did not provide any solution to the problem.

What conclusion did the speaker reach after browsing forums and comparing information?

The speaker found no consensus on the matter of nut positioning in relation to the valve stem and the wheel, with forum members having zealous support for every possible approach.

What is the recommended setup for street riding according to Michelin?

For street riding, Michelin suggests having two nuts on the outside of the wheel. The first nut is tightened down to the wheel finger tight only, and the second nut is tightened to the first nut to lock them against each other.

Why should there be no nut on the outside of the valve stem when riding offroad?

When riding offroad and deflating tubes, having no nut on the outside of the valve stem allows the valve stem to be pulled in a bit into the wheel without getting ripped off, preventing damage to the tube.

What is the purpose of talcum powder or corn starch when installing tires and tubes?

Talcum powder or corn starch is used to reduce friction between the tire and the tube, making it less likely for the tire to pull the tube with it if it rotates independently of the wheel.

What is the speaker's opinion on the approach of having no nut at all on the outside of the valve stem?

The speaker believes that having no nut at all on the outside of the valve stem is not the best approach because it allows the valve stem to be completely pulled inside the wheel, making it difficult to reset without removing the wheel and tire.

Why should there be a nut on the valve stem base under the wheel for off-road applications?

For off-road applications, a nut on the valve stem base under the wheel strengthens the connection between the valve stem and the tube, preventing the washer from chewing on the tube when the tube is deflated.

Outlines

00:00

🔧 Tire Tube Installation Dilemma

The speaker begins by discussing a discrepancy in tire tube installation methods between Honda's factory setup and Michelin's instructions. They describe how the factory-installed tube on a Honda CRF300l had one nut tightened to the valve stem base and another tightened to the wheel. However, when attempting to follow the same procedure with new Michelin tubes, the speaker encountered issues with seating the bead and securing the tire. This led to a search for the correct method, which revealed conflicting information from different sources, including Michelin's own packaging and online forums. The speaker humorously recounts an unhelpful response from an AI, prompting them to conduct further research.

05:05

🏍️ Nut Positioning for Street and Off-Road Riding

The speaker elaborates on the correct positioning of nuts on the valve stem for both street and off-road motorcycle riding. For street use, they recommend following Michelin's advice of having two nuts on the outside of the wheel, with the first nut finger-tight against the wheel and the second nut securing the first. This setup prevents the first nut from loosening. For off-road use, the speaker advises against having a nut on the outside of the valve stem to allow for tire rotation without damaging the valve stem. They also discuss the purpose of the top nut as a tool for installing and resetting the valve stem and express skepticism about manufacturers' recommendations, suggesting a compromise of having a nut tightened to the valve cap.

10:11

🛠️ The Role of Valve Stem Nuts in Off-Road Applications

In this section, the speaker explains the function of the top nut in off-road applications, emphasizing its role as a tool for tube installation and valve stem resetting. They also discuss the importance of the bottom nut under the wheel for off-road use, which strengthens the connection between the valve stem and the tube. The speaker addresses the potential issue of moisture and debris entering the space between the tube, tire, and wheel due to the absence of a sealing washer when a nut is present. They also touch upon the manufacturer's distrust in consumers maintaining correct tire pressure and the role of the nut in preventing damage from under-inflated tubes.

15:11

🛣️ Street vs. Off-Road: Nut Positioning and Longevity

The final paragraph contrasts nut positioning for street and off-road applications, focusing on the longevity of rubber products. The speaker advises against having a nut under the wheel for street use to prevent moisture and abrasion damage, which can compromise the tube and tire over time. They emphasize the importance of maintaining correct tire pressure and the longer lifespan of tires and tubes on street bikes. The speaker concludes by summarizing the impact of nut positioning on the longevity of motorcycle tires and tubes and thanks the viewers for watching, promising more informative content in future videos.

Keywords

💡Tube Type Tire

A tube type tire refers to a traditional bicycle or motorcycle tire design where an inner tube is used to hold air pressure within the tire. This is contrasted with tubeless tires which contain a sealant and do not require an inner tube. In the video, the discussion revolves around the correct installation of inner tubes within tube type tires, emphasizing the importance of correct positioning of nuts on the valve stem for optimal performance and longevity.

💡Valve Stem

The valve stem is the part of a tire that allows air to be added or released from the inner tube. It is a critical component as it connects the inner tube to the outside environment. In the script, the positioning of nuts on the valve stem is a central issue, with debate over whether they should be tightened to the wheel or left loose to allow for movement when riding off-road.

💡Nut

Nuts in the context of the video are the fasteners used to secure the inner tube's valve stem to the wheel. The discussion explores the correct placement and tightness of these nuts, which is crucial for preventing damage to the tube and ensuring a proper seal. The script describes a scenario where the factory setup from Honda and the instructions from Michelin differ, leading to confusion.

💡Bead

The bead of a tire is the edge that seats against the rim when the tire is properly installed. In the video, the issue of getting the bead to seat correctly is mentioned as a problem the narrator faced when trying to install a new inner tube, which could not be resolved by inflating the tube more.

💡Michelin

Michelin is a renowned tire manufacturer mentioned in the script as a source of new inner tubes. The video discusses the discrepancy between the factory setup from Honda and the instructions provided by Michelin, which suggest different methods for securing the valve stem nuts, leading to confusion for the narrator.

💡Off-Road Applications

Off-road applications refer to the use of motorcycles or other vehicles in environments outside of paved roads, where different tire pressures and maintenance strategies may be necessary. The video explains that for off-road use, it is advisable to not tighten the nut on the outside of the valve stem to the wheel to allow for tire rotation without damaging the tube.

💡Street Driving/Riding

Street driving or riding implies the use of vehicles on paved roads where maintaining correct tire pressure is crucial for performance and safety. The script suggests that for street use, it is recommended to have two nuts on the outside of the valve stem, with the top nut serving to secure the bottom nut in place.

💡Tire Slip

Tire slip occurs when the tire rotates independently of the wheel, which can happen when the tube is deflated. The video explains that removing the outer nut on the valve stem allows for some give in the system, preventing the valve stem from being ripped off when the tire slips.

💡Valve Cap

The valve cap is a protective cover for the valve stem that helps keep dirt and moisture out. In the context of the video, it is suggested that for off-road use, the top nut should be tightened to the valve cap to prevent the valve stem from being pulled completely into the wheel, which would make it difficult to reset.

💡Talcum Powder

Talcum powder is mentioned as a substance that can be used between the tire and the tube during installation to reduce friction. This helps prevent the tire from pulling the tube with it if it rotates independently of the wheel, which is particularly important for off-road applications where tire pressures may be frequently adjusted.

Highlights

The factory-installed inner tube on a Honda CRF300l has one nut fully tightened at the valve stem base, suggesting a specific installation method.

When replacing inner tubes with Michelin, the procedure did not work as expected, leading to a reevaluation of the installation process.

Michelin's instructions, found in the box, contradict the factory method by suggesting both nuts should be above the wheel.

Further confusion arises as different Michelin boxes provide conflicting images regarding the positioning of the nuts.

Online forums like Adventure Rider and Thumpertalk show a lack of consensus on the correct nut positioning.

Some forum members advocate for no nuts at all, allowing the valve stem freedom of movement.

Others recommend a single nut outside the wheel, tightened only to the valve cap, not the wheel itself.

Contacting Michelin directly resulted in an unhelpful response, suggesting a need for further research.

Watching YouTube videos and visiting dealerships provided a more comprehensive understanding of nut positioning.

For street riding, Michelin suggests two nuts outside the wheel, with the first nut finger-tight against the wheel and the second locking it in place.

Off-road riding may require no nuts outside the valve stem to allow for tire rotation without damaging the valve stem.

Using talcum powder during installation reduces friction between the tire and tube, preventing the tube from being pulled with the tire.

The top nut on off-road applications serves as a tool for installing and resetting the valve stem.

The bottom nut under the wheel on off-road applications strengthens the connection between the valve stem and the tube.

Manufacturers sometimes install a nut at the valve stem base to prevent over-tightening by consumers.

A nut under the wheel can prevent moisture and debris entry but may also compromise the seal, leading to rust and abrasion.

For street-driven applications, it's best to avoid a nut under the wheel to prevent long-term damage from moisture and debris.

Transcripts

Here we have a tube type tire, okay, and here we have a tube for said tire that goes into the tire  

And here we have a problem. As you can see on the valve stem, we have these nuts

Now here's a used motorcycle inner tube that I removed from a brand new Honda CRF300l

so this is what came from the factory

and as we know the factory is the  indisputable temple of mechanical correctness  

and knowledge. And from the factory it came like this, let me get a wheel to demonstrate. So let me  

find the hole. It came like this. One nut was bolted all the way down and tightened to the bottom  

of the valve stem, to the base of the valve stem. It was then inserted into the wheel  

and then the other nut was tightened down to the wheel reasonably tight. This is what came  

from Honda, from the factory. And so I assumed that's the correct way to do it. But recently  

it was also time to replace the inner tubes on my motorcycle so I bought new  

inner tubes from Michelin and I tried to do the same thing, to repeat the same procedure  

but it did not work, I could not get the bead to seat I could not install the tire properly onto  

the wheel no matter how much I inflated the tube. I was lost and I came back to the box  

and I found the reason behind my lostness. Displayed proudly in beautiful monochrome was this image

And as you can see, Michelin here is clearly saying that we are not putting any nuts under the  

wheel. Both nuts go above the wheel. So, Honda and Michelin disagree with each other  

Two temples of mechanical correctness are saying two different things

But then it got even worse

Because on my other box of my other Michelin inner tube I found another proudly displayed image of this  

one, and here the wheel contours are not displayed, we cannot see them as in this image, but it is very  

clear that there is no space for the wheel to go between the valve stem base and this nut

Now the nut is all the way to the bottom of the valve stem base, which suggests that the wheel should go  

between the two nuts and not below both of the nuts. So Michelin disagrees with Michelin

Faced with such conflicting information, I was paralyzed. I didn't know what to do, so I did what I always  

do when I don't know what's the right thing to do. I asked chat GPT, and here I have the answer

from chat GPT printed out and it says: "As an AI-based language model, go f... yourself"  

Faced with this unusually vague answer, I had to do the only other thing possible, and that is to manually  

browse the internet to find the facts, by comparing information from multiple different sources

I know, eww. Of course, within milliseconds I ended up on the forums. The treasure trove of online credibility  

And after spending some time on forums such as Adventure Rider or Thumpertalk, I came to the  

following conclusion. The higher the number of posts of a forum member, the higher the  

chances that member has mental and/or social issues. Additionally, I realized that consensus  

on the matter of nut positioning in  relationship to the valve stem and  

the wheel does not exist. There are zealous proponents of every possible approach

Even stuff like no nuts at all. Giving the valve stem complete freedom to go all the way in and out

Others suggested just one knot on the outside of the wheel but not tightened down to the wheel  

Instead, it's tightened up to the valve cap. Finally, I decided to contact Michelin directly

And here I have the answer from Michelin printed out and it says: "As a global manufacturer and  

supplier of tires and associated natural and synthetic rubber products, go f... yourself".

Of course, as any person with an IQ as high as mine, I immediately made the connection  

Chat GPT was trained on Michelin customer support employees. It all finally made sense  

So I decided that I must keep digging  to find the facts

So I watched YouTube videos

I visited KTM and Husqvarna dealerships

I even filmed actual motocross racers

I spent an entire lunch break on this and I finally  

found the ultimate, most comprehensive answer

If you are riding on the street and you keep your tires inflated to the correct pressure  

then what Michelin suggests here, which is two nuts on the outside, is the correct thing to do  

You will take your first nut, tighten it down to the wheel, finger tight only, and then you  

will take the second nut, and tighten it to the first nut, and lock them against each other using  

two wrenches. The only purpose of the second nut is to keep the first nut in place. Without the second  

nut, the first nut would come loose because it's finger-tight only. That's street driving/riding  

If you are riding offroad and you  occasionally deflate your tubes to an air pressure  

below specified, in order to overcome challenging terrain, then there should be no nut on the outside  

of the valve stem, of the wheel tightened down to the wheel. Why? Because the wheel, the tube and  

the tire, are not glued together. The only thing keeping these three together, is the pressure of  

the tube acting against the tire and the wheel. If you deflate your tube, you are removing the  

force keeping them together, which means that your tire can slip. It can rotate independently of the  

wheel for a little bit. This is especially true on motorcycles capable of outputting large amounts  

of torque quickly and aggressively. When the tire rotates and slips on the wheel, it is going to take  

the tube with it. If the valve stem is tightened, secured to the wheel via a nut, it is going to  

be ripped off. If we remove this outer nut, we are going to give the valve stem some breathing room  

We are going to allow for the valve stem to be pulled in a bit into the wheel, without it getting ripped off 

This will not only save your tube, but it will allow you to have a quick visual cue that tells  

you that your tire has rotated. It has slipped. It will also allow you to reset the valve stem  

by deflating the tube, pulling the valve stem back out, and re-inflating the tube

This is also why we take talcum powder or corn starch or whatever and 

put it between the tire and the tube during the  

installation of tires and tubes. This reduces the friction between the tire and the tube, and makes  

it less likely for the tire to pull the tube with it, if it rotates independently of the wheel for a bit

However, I'd like to add that I think that  KTM, Husqvarna, GasGas, all of them together

Pierer mobility group, I believe. The approach they have now which is no nut at all on the outside, I  

don't think it's the best approach, because it allows the valve stem to be completely pulled  

inside the wheel. The plastic valve cap will not prevent this from happening. If the valve stem is  

completely pulled into the wheel then you have no way of pulling it back out and resetting it  

without completely removing the wheel from the motorcycle and removing the tire as well. I think  

the best compromise is to have a nut tightened up there, to the valve cap. This will prevent the  

valve stem from being pulled completely in. It will give the valve stem some breathing room  

and it will allow us to reset the valve stem by tightening down the nut and then loosening it  

back up. And that's precisely what the upper, the top nut is on off-road applications. It's a tool  

We use it during the installation of the tube into the wheel to locate the tube into the wheel  

and keep it from coming back into the wheel when we are installing everything and when we inflate  

the tube. And it's also a tool to reset the valve nut if the tire slips independently of the wheel  

That's it. It is not used to tighten down the valve stem to the wheel. Okay, that's a top nut  

What about the bottom nut, the one under the wheel on off-road applications. Should we put a nut on  

the valve base under the wheel with offroad stuff? Yes, we should. And the reason is that it makes the

connection between the valve stem and the rubber of the tube a little  

bit stronger. If we remove the top, this nut, we are going to see that we have a little washer  

Now if we deflate the tube and we ride with a deflated tube, the absence of this nut is going  

to allow this washer to bounce and chew on the tube, which will over time compromise this area  

around the valve base and cause it to eventually fail. Some manufacturers also choose to install a  

nut to the valve stem base from the factory and tighten it. If you buy a tube and you try  

to remove this nut and it doesn't come off with very little finger force or minimal effort  

with a wrench, then do not try to remove it, leave it alone, because trying to force this nut away  

to loosen it by force, will likely compromise or even destroy that tube. Some manufacturers choose  

to do this because it fits their manufacturing process but also perhaps more importantly because  

they don't trust consumers and I understand that, people hate to think. It's true. A nut tightened  

down to the base of the valve stem under the wheel prevents two things

Number one, it prevents the valve stem from being ripped off from the tube by over-tightening

Some people tend to forget that the tube is nothing but rubber

and the connection between the valve stem and the tube  

is again nothing but rubber. But some people like things to be super tight and super secure, they  

believe that makes it better, so when they install the tube, they keep tightening the outer, the upper  

nut on the outside of the wheel with a wrench until it super, super secure, super tight

Doing this is going to pull out the valve stem and rip off the valve stem because it's nothing but rubber  

If we put a nut on the valve stem base under the wheel then it's going to prevent the scenario,  

the ripping off the valve stem by overtightening the top nut from happening. So that's number one  

Number two: Manufacturers don't really trust consumers to keep their tires at the correct  

pressure and if the pressure is below specified, then this washer is going to chew down on the  

tube, as we said, it's going to compromise it and so a nut tightened down onto the washer, 

onto the valve stem base, is going to prevent that from happening as well. However, a nut under  

the wheel between the tube and the wheel does have a drawback. As you can see, on the valve stem

base, we have this washer and this washer has this little nice conical shape, which means that it's  

designed to seal against the rubber tape and the hole of the wheel. If we put a nut on top  

of the washer, then the washer will not be able to do this sealing job, which means that we are  

going to allow moisture and debris into the space between the tube, the tire and the wheel  

Over time this moisture and debris is going to cause number one: your valve stem base to rust out  

a bit like this, and is going to cause a bit of abrasion damage all over the tube as you can see  

on my old tubes. However, on off-road applications, the tires and tubes simply don't last long enough  

for this long-term damage to become an issue. Plus, when you deflate your tubes, moisture and abrasion 

is going to get in there, whether you have a nut, washer, or whatever, because you deflate

your tube, the seal will be compromised. But, this  is also why we don't want a nut under the wheel  

on street-driven applications, because on the street, we ride much greater distances, at  

much greater speeds. We keep our air pressure at the correct air pressure hopefully, and we keep  

our tires and tubes for a longer period of time. So we don't want moisture and abrasion in  

there, we want to give the tubes and tires the best chance of lasting for as long as possible

So there you have it

Nut positioning, and how it impacts  the longevity of your rubber products

As always, thanks a lot for watching. I'll be seeing you soon with more fun and useful stuff on the D4A channel