Chapter 1 - TA and further useful concepts for a therapist or a coach
Summary
TLDRThe speaker delves into Transactional Analysis (TA), emphasizing the importance of understanding the three ego states and their impact on human behavior. They discuss the integration of thinking and feeling within these states and the significance of developmental psychology in counseling. The talk also touches on the evolution of the speaker's approach to therapy, influenced by Berne's work, and the importance of making complex psychological concepts accessible without oversimplifying them. The speaker highlights the role of emotions, the interpreter function of the brain, and the challenges of translating theoretical concepts into practical counseling techniques.
Takeaways
- 🧠 The speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding the brain's logical and intuitive parts, suggesting that our decisions and changes occur in different areas of the brain.
- 📚 The speaker's background in religion and psychoanalysis has influenced their approach to therapy, particularly after reading Berne's book which introduced the concept of ego states.
- 🔑 The concept of three ego states (Parent, Adult, and Child) is central to Transactional Analysis (TA) and was a revelation to the speaker, highlighting the integrated nature of thinking and feeling in each state.
- 🌟 TA is presented as a cognitive therapy that differs from psychoanalysis by focusing on the here and now, and the speaker advocates for simplicity and clarity in understanding these concepts.
- 🧐 The speaker discusses the importance of understanding emotions and their origins in the brain, referencing Damasio's work and the distinction between basic emotions and the broader range of human feelings.
- 👶 Developmental stages are crucial for consultants to understand, as they influence the formation of ego states and patterns of behavior and emotion.
- 🤝 The speaker stresses the need for consultants to establish a contract with clients, focusing on what the client wants to change, which may evolve over the course of therapy.
- 🌱 The speaker highlights the significance of understanding shame and its developmental origins, using it as an example of how awareness of emotional development can be useful in therapy.
- 🔍 The speaker reflects on the evolution of their own theories, acknowledging the challenge of simplifying complex concepts without oversimplifying them.
- 💡 The speaker encourages consultants to be aware of the client's expectations and the potential for clients to hold onto the belief that their problems are not their own responsibility.
Q & A
What are the three ego states discussed in the script?
-The three ego states are the Parent, Adult, and Child. These ego states are systems for thinking, feeling, and behaving, influenced by past experiences and patterns developed during childhood.
What is the significance of integrating thinking and feeling in therapy?
-The script emphasizes that thinking and feeling are interconnected and should not be separated in therapy. Unlike traditional approaches that distinguished between the two, Transactional Analysis (TA) integrates both to understand the full range of human experience.
How does the script describe the intuitive part of the brain?
-The intuitive part of the brain is described as mysterious and not fully understood. It plays a key role in decision-making, and research is expected to better understand its functions within 10 to 20 years.
What does the script suggest about the role of developmental theory in therapy?
-The script suggests that understanding human development, especially emotional and psychological development, is crucial for therapists. Familiarity with developmental milestones allows therapists to address patterns formed in childhood that continue to influence behavior in adulthood.
How does the script differentiate Transactional Analysis (TA) from psychoanalysis?
-TA is described as a cognitive therapy that focuses on the present (here and now) and involves analyzing interactions between ego states. In contrast, psychoanalysis often focuses on the unconscious mind and deeper, past-rooted issues.
What is the importance of shame in the context of the script?
-Shame is discussed as an important emotion that can be traced back to early developmental stages, such as toilet training. The script highlights how shame can be used to understand and address emotional issues in therapy.
What is the concept of 'scripts' in Transactional Analysis?
-Scripts in TA refer to unconscious life plans developed in childhood, often based on early experiences. These scripts guide behavior and interactions in adulthood, and therapy seeks to bring these scripts into awareness to enable change.
What does the script say about the relationship between thoughts, feelings, and memories?
-Thoughts, feelings, and memories are interconnected. Feelings are often linked to memories, some of which may be conscious while others are unconscious. These elements combine to form patterns of thinking and feeling in the present.
How does the script address the role of culture in emotional development?
-The script acknowledges that emotional responses, including shame, can be shaped by cultural development. What people feel shame about may vary across different cultures and families.
What does the script suggest about the future of brain research?
-The script suggests that future research will reveal more about how the circuits in the brain operate, particularly the intuitive and emotional aspects, which are not yet fully understood.
Outlines
🧠 Exploring Ego States and Transactional Analysis
The speaker introduces key concepts relevant to counseling, specifically within the framework of Transactional Analysis (TA). They emphasize the importance of understanding different parts of the brain involved in decision-making and change: the logical, verbal part and the intuitive, mysterious part. They reflect on the teachings of Eric Berne, whose book on TA profoundly changed their approach. Berne's revelation about the three ego states (Parent, Adult, Child) as systems for thinking, feeling, and behaving is discussed as a foundational insight for understanding human behavior.
🔄 Circuits of the Brain and Cognitive Therapy
The discussion moves to comparing brain circuits to computer functions, suggesting that these circuits are formed from birth and evolve with time. The speaker contrasts TA with psychoanalytic approaches, noting that TA is more cognitive and has clearer, more defined concepts. The importance of developmental knowledge in counseling is stressed, as well as the ability to recognize various emotional and cognitive patterns that develop throughout a person's life. They reference debates within the TA community on the interpretation and simplicity of TA concepts, illustrating differences in perspective among practitioners.
🧬 Emotions and the Human Brain
The speaker delves into how emotions are processed in the brain, distinguishing between the more primitive brain structures that handle basic emotions and the higher-level cortex that enables complex feelings and thoughts. This section emphasizes the importance of recognizing the wide range of human emotions and the complexity of interpreting them within counseling. They also explore how a client's presented emotions may differ from underlying feelings, highlighting the need for a consultant to carefully distinguish between surface emotions and deeper emotional currents.
🔄 Therapy Contracts and Developmental Theory
The focus shifts to therapy methods, particularly the use of contracts in early decision therapy, where clients explicitly state what they want to change. The speaker underscores the need for therapists to have a grounding in developmental theory to better understand emotional and behavioral patterns that emerge at different life stages. The discussion also touches upon the importance of attachment theory and developmental markers in understanding clients' behaviors and how therapists must be well-versed in these developmental stages to provide effective guidance.
🧩 Simplification vs. Simplism in Transactional Analysis
This section addresses the critique that TA can sometimes be perceived as overly simplistic, making it too accessible and reducing its perceived value. The speaker defends the simplicity of TA, arguing that the concepts need to be clear and understandable, not necessarily simplistic. They reflect on the balance between maintaining conceptual depth and making ideas accessible, noting that TA’s simplicity is often misunderstood and undervalued. The conversation also covers the shadow aspects of TA, where simple terms were initially used to describe complex theories, and how this has impacted the perception of TA within psychological communities.
😓 Understanding Shame and Developmental Stages
The speaker talks about their work on shame, particularly how shame receptors develop around the age of two, coinciding with developmental milestones like toilet training. They discuss how understanding the developmental background of emotions like shame is crucial for counselors in the therapeutic process. An example is given of a client who exhibited signs of shame during therapy, which allowed for a swift and effective intervention. The speaker emphasizes the importance of recognizing developmental stages and patterns in clients to offer targeted support and achieve better therapeutic outcomes.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Ego States
💡Transactional Analysis (TA)
💡Cognitive Therapy
💡Developmental Stages
💡Shame
💡Intuitive Brain
💡Emotions vs. Thoughts
💡Therapy Contract
💡Interpretation
💡Attachment Theory
Highlights
The speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding both intuitive and logical parts of the brain when addressing changes and decisions.
The speaker mentions a shift in their therapy approach after reading a book in 1964 that emphasized the three ego states in Transactional Analysis.
The concept of three ego states—Child, Parent, and Adult—operating simultaneously with both thinking and feeling is introduced as a major revelation in Transactional Analysis.
Each ego state is described as a system for thinking and feeling that can be manifested through behavior, a functional approach different from psychoanalytic traditions.
The speaker acknowledges that Transactional Analysis is a cognitive therapy that combines thinking and feeling, unlike previous therapies that often separated the two.
The speaker refers to research by Damasio, highlighting the connection between emotions and the more primitive parts of the brain, and how these emotions rise to the cortex for human-level feelings.
The discussion of emotions, thoughts, and memories suggests that consultants need to be highly aware of what lies beneath the surface when working with clients.
The importance of developmental theory in consultation is emphasized, suggesting that understanding human development helps in addressing issues in the present.
Consultants are encouraged to simplify complex concepts to make them understandable to a broader audience without making them simplistic.
The speaker reflects on how early childhood experiences, particularly around shame, affect a person's development and the significance of understanding these stages in therapy.
Shame is presented as a deeply rooted emotion that can be linked to early childhood experiences, such as toilet training, and understanding this is crucial for therapists.
The speaker provides a case study of a client who experienced nightmares and how they used developmental theory and an understanding of shame to quickly resolve the issue.
Transactional Analysis is positioned as a simple yet powerful tool for understanding complex emotional dynamics, with an emphasis on practical application.
The speaker warns against making theories too simplistic, arguing that deep theoretical understanding can still be communicated clearly.
The speaker mentions how developmental theory and understanding stages of human growth are essential for consultants and therapists when working with clients.
Transcripts
nevertheless I will address your
question right now
first of all with spilling out what are
the important concepts that I think
people should have and we're going to do
some should myself should yeah I jumped
because in transaction analysis can be
in a recommendation as well and I think
let's take it as a kind of
recommendation and the other say have
enough data that they can decide on
their own whether they take it or not
it's maybe it's a it's really a game to
to get your recommendation yeah totally
after long life of working in this area
so what can be important theoretical
tools that counselors people need as a
favor for whatever it is they're going
to be talking and
we do know now from research that's
really a part of that Zynga and I want
to refer to him in that sense that he
has evolution from research that on the
right one part of our brain that is
really the interpreter the logical but
the herbal one that explains but that
actually our decisions our thoughts our
changes occur in with another part of
the brain the intuitive part of the
brain and that is rather mysterious and
that's going to be understood much
better in 10 20 years when research will
have showing better how the circuits
operate in the brain okay so you know be
in order to talk about these these
shoots I want to step back a little bit
of course my background was my
background training was on religion and
what happened was that after years of
practicing psychoanalytically doing
second individual second
psychoanalytically resentence a
critically influenced therapy I decided
that my therapy wasn't good was not
effective did not justify the amount of
time and money that was spent on it and
leading the team psychotherapy his first
book which I read in 1964 which he
published in 1961 but it was not known
before reading that book changed my
whole approach
and everything that have to say in terms
of what somebody needs to know is
expressed from the perspective of
someone who was that's formed by
thinking from the perspective of burns
original book and what was it that
transformed me what was it that I
considered so very important and changed
me it was the fact that he stressed that
we operate with three ego states that
some of what I will see now will sound
so obvious to people in nineteen in in
2012 and yet for 1964 it was a
revelation so I will still go with the
revelation that I experienced in 1964
even if you the listener will say okay
so what else is new but this was a
revelation we are put into three ego
states and each ego state is its system
this is a definition of lumber a system
for thinking and feeling thinking and
feeling that can be manifested by
behavior behavior includes an expression
on the face isn't behavior acting now
so really the original definition was a
functional definition of ego States and
it's the functionally but the definition
that interests me burned it assumed that
we had parts of our brain that operated
in terms of certain ego States nowadays
we wouldn't say that but we might see
surface
I'm comparing them to the computer we
might say cerfancy on the brain that
operate that III think in terms of the
chart circuit Li L suffered a mere dog
servant and these circuits or the
potential for these circuits existed
from the time of birth but continued and
so going back to the revelation is that
each circuit continues to exist in the
now with whatever material it has
accumulated in the course of growing up
which means by implication that being
familiar with develop developmental
child develop child development or human
development is very important in terms
of any kind of consultation one does
with someone in the here and now the big
difference between PA and Saturday
between the TA and psychoanalytic
approach is that T is a cognitive
therapy a society or today community
yeah exactly and the reference should be
given of the ta script
Lutie a scribbler which caused quite a
furor in the ta community where some
people like Schlegel for instance in
Switzerland
fortunately is there now was
enthusiastic on claim that he said that
he'd been saying that all along
and the number of other people were very
enthusiastic this was translated into
German yes or no and other people like
Molina in Italy was shocked and took an
attitude that I was the meaning ta I was
loosing it that was being reductive okay
as you may notice I spin around spin
around and I have lost a little bit of
what I was saying but I'll continue
anyway the big thing the big t
revelation is that we have three ego
states and each ego state is a system
system being like a thermostat of an
old-fashioned watch or the kind of
system that Fritz Perls talked about
English dog therapy of in of
interdependent parts and the big
contribution is to combine thinking and
feeling all therapies until them used to
emphasize the difference or the
separation between thinking and feeling
typically a client therapist for
instance would say well how do you feel
about this and the client right and so
well I think you are trying to provoke
me and the therapist would say wait wait
that's a fault that's not a feeling I'm
asking you how you feel about this and
not what you think
and this is a ridiculous reaction
because thinking and feeling are totally
in the wolf and this burn emphasis so
thinking and feeling are into
in each ego states all my ways of
thinking and feeling in the chiming of
state are different than my way of
thinking and feeling and of them equally
but it's always thinking and feeling
combined and this I think is a major
contribution of not trying to split
thinking over to me
nevertheless there is some new work by
the Moscow which I have found very
interesting and which I want to include
in here
and now people very Damacio spoke on
Spinoza for instance I'm going to accuse
me of presenting him very suggestive
element erroneously even I would hate to
think of what the marshal himself is
saying about what I say he says but I'm
going to put give you my interpretation
of what the master says and he says that
emotions emotions exist in we can talk
about emotions in the form for mammals
and they exist in all of us humans and
and the oceans therefore would be
located in the more primitive I'm not
going to try very Italian or whatever
I'm not even going to try and be
specific whether we talk about young
dollar or whatever I'm going to see the
primitive part of the brain and emotions
exist and I don't know with amasi or
others list the typical emotions I'm not
sure I can list them I think she anger
joy I think disgust I'm sure there are a
couple more exist in this part of the
brain and react and then emotions or
events associated to emotions will
travel up in the quarter up into the
cortex and now we're talking about human
beings and human beings have this
enormous range of feelings that we have
there have been we can talk about
thoughts and feelings rather
interchangeably but this process is a
very interesting one and so in talking
about in referring in in this in talking
with an adult word oh we were use with
the dot in two meanings and thrown up
I'm going to do some good on press
rather than talking to a good on person
that good on person is has the potential
of a wide range of feelings which can be
named in all kinds of their native
language just like just the way the
color spectrum can be expanded by an
artist - I don't know hundreds of
different shades of color but but
basically there
I don't know the in four or five so we
have these three go states with the
potential of a wide range of feelings
and associated thoughts and thoughts
that are associated to memories and that
relate to memory some problem
potentially conscious and some of them
potentially unconscious identities okay
we just talked about the concept that a
young consultant should know or you know
and you're referrin Byrne and I'm asked
a meaning approached about between over
thirty years of scientific research whom
I would like to refer to simply the
terminology about the interpreter the
way we describe something which is not
necessary does not necessarily
correspond even in terms of a trauma or
in terms of a happy experience why do I
only use drama that I will refer to
someone
that's the time I'm lying to myself and
I have thought it or it's being listed
very differently than the way I believe
in poor Florian Kwanzaa it means the he
or she has to distinguish between what
feelings and thoughts in the same
message maybe a client would sense yeah
and we to be aware of it that even the
emotional part you see on the surface is
not a part but they what kind of emotion
is lying really within the message or in
within the action of vision there is a
behavior yeah and introduced to
distinguish it very very careful and
listen with an open mind is not exactly
so dilemma because a client now we're
talking about a young consultant but
we're also talking about the popular
client or the consultant needs to be
aware that the client comes with an
expectation of receiving some help about
changing something that client comes it
comes with a confirmation that the
problem is not soluble exact all over
them exactly what that is but the overt
reason for coming and putting money in
order to work with real consultant is
that I want to change something the
goldens who
and on their method of therapy early
decision therapy is one of the therapies
the buildings or meri building usually
started with a client and establishing a
contractor generally about that I say
what do you want to change and so her
treatment contracts would be based on
establishing what the client says they
want to change during the course of
working the client might find out trying
that they want to change something
different than what they want to change
but that's a different story
but theoretically if the client comes
for help in establishing in modifying
something usually they would rather
modify something in the environment or
in their partner or in their job then
modify something in themselves but what
comes up needs to learn I think some
grounding in developmental said in
developmental theory is very important
certainly a young doctor especially a
pediatrician needs to learn stages of
physical development
it's different for instance a child
learning to walk and there are certain
markers in terms of age of
and what age do you expect that quartz
normal child walks about eighteen months
to two years or something at what stage
do you expect that encodes normal child
talks or says words and so on in the
same way in the in terms of emotional
development or relations we need to
familiarize ourselves with markers of
what are important phases at different
ages and then bringing it in back into
the idea of ego States the point is that
in the child ago States I have developed
certain patterns and certain ways of
being inventing into certain specific
ages and the more familiar it consultant
years sorry about the language it's very
clumsy but no it's easier to say it in
German like German anyway the more yeah
the verb at the end it's much easier
anyway when the consultant or the
therapist whether it be the counselor
needs are familiar with emotional stages
the so-called hood normal and then that
there's a huge literature of what is
considered and now there is this great
emphasis on what we call the attachment
theory at what stage you develop this
but one credo of TA of one of those
Guido's was to mix to time make things
simple and to make things comprehensible
to a twelve-year-old just a brain on a
on a level that is understandable
meaning and that's not to make it too
simplified but to make it clear that
such kind of person are able to deal
with it
that's right and there's a difference
between simple and simplistic simplistic
is cheap you have no good simple is very
important there's a couch from I start I
don't know whether it's true or not but
I was told at Einstein said that if you
can explain and Byrne said something
similar and then the Austrian Kurdish is
three nice to say I don't my
twelve-year-old doesn't understand and
to really see whether the child the
child ego can understand what's going on
okay
so I lost the game yeah but about to
make a loop that sometimes happens at Ta
where was referred as a kind of Mickey
Mouse pathology I mean yeah it's too
simple it's too easy to understand
everyone can work with after 300
trillion and feel as a therapist and I
think that's completely mistaken yes
the sentence is more going for a high
quality what you are
of the concepts and it's not yeah bring
it on higher level yeah and not to
simplify it or make it simplistic yeah
what do we honest
loss of conception list and serious for
is ETA have done yeah yeah I published
yes it's part of the museum the success
story of th yeah but it's also part of
the shadow sides a bag of the moon yeah
that makes it sometimes tough to really
use it and and it's even been my problem
too because one of this is something we
will be talking about at the end my
concept of there are acts or motive in
us when I first started to think or talk
about them my first article on the topic
was entitled sleepy spunky and still
serving and I used these simple terms to
defy at the time I thought that I could
explain motivators as residing in the
chaga co-state I no longer see it this
way this was my early attempt to develop
that piece of theory and I consider mine
and that I'm very proud of it that I can
only talk about at the end but I will
put this parentheses in here that my
article sleep is partly and serving is
often ported instead of a much later
article and I'm not happy with that
because it was published in a psychology
journal and it was called Disneyland and
so I
also the basis of part of my theory that
most valuable sometimes it's hard to
take things back well you have already
published okay but coming back to the
main road okay first of all you talked
about how professionally asked oh yes
ding what's between feeding feeding and
sinking and the seconds yeah fine you
made worse that you have to know a
little more about the development of
human being and then we have to pick and
choose and we know considered counselors
about what has been found more and more
in terms of developmentally in the
emotional for instance I I have two
articles on shame and I was the first
person in
gay community to focus on the importance
on the importance of the fact that our
same receptors so to speak start out at
about age to almost the time before - I
would say 18 months or whatever around
the time of toiletry actually and there
we have a certain kind of correspondence
to psychoanalytic theory about but not
exactly theory talks about in but
certainly implicitly Freud saw that
there is something there that the stage
of toilet training or response to a
particular stage of faming but but what
one gets shamed about differs with
cultural development cultures family
development and so on but this is an
example of how the awareness of
development is so useful with the here
and now and one of my best pieces that I
described in my first part in in one of
my attic
shame here's the case of Nancy who was
having nightmares suddenly she was quite
well-balanced and suddenly she came for
help
and because she showed symptoms of shame
in my office as she was talking from the
here-and-now perspective about nightmare
I was able to help her very fast I will
get back to that because I'm beginning
with much more the tangent I'm doing but
somewhere along the line I would like
people to I would like to refer to this
case of identifying a client who
suddenly gets flushed right in the face
in talking to me about how she doesn't
remember the content of the nightmare
and from that I was able to come her
very fast in getting rid of the terrible
experience she was feeling in the now
okay I'm lost again start all over again
so what does one eat - so we enough see
in your system and the system system
distinguish between yeah feelings and
thoughts we have aspects of brain
function we have stages now of
development yeah and one of the points
you mentioned missing this context was
the ability to shame and now it will be
used or misused in in the time when we
when we are you have a grow up and then
be a rise up and absorb achievement and
buying a social environment of em yeah
this for instance this I'm using this is
an example to show for instance in
working with
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