Beyond the "creation vs. evolution" debate | Denis Lamoureux | TEDxEdmonton

Summary

The speaker addresses the false dichotomy between evolution and creation, advocating for a more nuanced understanding of origins. As a committed Evangelical theologian and evolutionary biologist, he discusses the compatibility of religious beliefs with scientific theories. He introduces terms like 'teolog' and 'discolog' to differentiate between those who believe in a purposeful universe and those who don't. The speaker also highlights the importance of distinguishing between science, which deals with the physical, and religion, which addresses the spiritual. He concludes by encouraging an exploration of both the 'book of God's works' (nature) and the 'book of God's words' (scriptures), as proposed by Sir Francis Bacon, to foster a comprehensive view of the world.

Takeaways

• 🤔 The debate between evolution and creationism is a false dichotomy, suggesting there are more perspectives than just two.
• 🌐 The speaker, an Evangelical Theologian and evolutionary biologist, believes in both a Creator and evolution, highlighting the compatibility of science and faith.
• 📚 Charles Darwin, the father of modern evolutionary theory, also believed in a personal God, indicating that theism and evolutionism can coexist.
• 🔬 The terms 'teolog' and 'discolog' are introduced to differentiate between those who believe in a purposeful universe versus those who do not.
• 🧬 Evolution is defined as a scientific theory explaining the natural processes of life's origin, separate from spiritual or mystical beliefs.
• 🌟 The concept of 'evolutionary creation' is proposed as a way to reconcile the idea of a purposeful evolutionary process guided by a creative mind.
• 👶 The embryology analogy is used to illustrate how religious individuals can accept natural processes in creation, suggesting a similar acceptance of evolutionary processes.
• 📚 The speaker advocates for a peaceful and fruitful relationship between science and religion, citing the existence of science-religion professors in prestigious universities.
• 🧠 The necessity of a 'step of faith' or intellectual leap from scientific data to ultimate beliefs is emphasized, acknowledging the non-scientific nature of such beliefs.
• 📖 The Bible is described as having an ancient understanding of nature and poetic language, suggesting it should not be read through a modern scientific lens.

Q & A

What is the main theme of the speech?

The main theme of the speech is the exploration of uncertainty regarding the origin of the world and the need to move beyond the simplistic dichotomy between evolution and creationism.

Why is the debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham considered problematic by the speaker?

The speaker considers the debate problematic because it forces people into a false dichotomy, suggesting that there are only two credible positions on the origin of life: evolution without God or creation with God.

What is the speaker's stance on the relationship between evolution and creation?

The speaker identifies as both an evolutionist and a creationist, suggesting that evolution can be a theological process ordained by a creative mind, thus embracing the concept of 'evolutionary creation.'

Who is Charles Robert Darwin according to the speaker?

Charles Robert Darwin is identified as the father of modern evolutionary theory, and the speaker points out that Darwin himself believed in a personal God and saw no contradiction between being a theist and an evolutionist.

What are the terms 'teolog' and 'discolog' as defined in the speech?

In the speech, 'teolog' refers to someone who believes in an ultimate plan or purpose in the universe, while 'discolog' refers to someone who does not believe in such a plan.

How does the speaker differentiate between science and religion in terms of their scope?

The speaker differentiates science and religion by stating that science deals with the physical and observable, while religion and metaphysics deal with larger questions that extend beyond the physical.

What does the speaker suggest as a solution to the perceived dichotomy between science and religion?

The speaker suggests defining terms clearly, recognizing that everyone takes a step of faith from scientific data to ultimate beliefs, and embracing the concept of 'evolutionary creation' as a way to reconcile science and religion.

What is the 'two books model' mentioned by the speaker?

The 'two books model' refers to the idea that there are two sources of divine revelation: the book of God's works (nature) and the book of God's words (scriptures and religious texts), and that understanding both is essential.

How does the speaker view the concept of 'intelligent design'?

The speaker views 'intelligent design' as a belief that the complexity and functionality in nature point to an intelligent designer, and distinguishes it from being a scientific theory.

What does the speaker suggest about the Bible's approach to nature and science?

The speaker suggests that the Bible has an ancient understanding of nature and uses poetic language, and that it is not a book of science but rather focuses on spiritual and metaphysical matters.

What insight does the speaker attribute to Galileo regarding the Bible's purpose?

The speaker attributes to Galileo the insight that the Bible's intention is to teach us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go, implying that the Bible is more concerned with spiritual matters than with scientific explanations.

Outlines

00:00

🌐 The Complexity of Origins: Beyond the Debate

The paragraph discusses the complexity surrounding the origins of the world, highlighting the debate between evolutionist Bill Nye and creationist Ken Ham. It critiques the oversimplified dichotomy that positions science and religion as mutually exclusive, suggesting that there are more nuanced perspectives. The speaker, an Evangelical Theologian and evolutionary biologist, argues for a position that reconciles both evolution and creationism, citing Charles Darwin's own belief in a personal God alongside his theory of evolution. The paragraph introduces terms like 'teolog' and 'discology' to discuss the presence or absence of a perceived plan or purpose in the universe, and 'evolutionary creation' as a term that embraces both scientific and religious understandings of origins.

05:01

🔬 Science and Religion: A Harmonious Relationship

This paragraph explores the relationship between science and religion, emphasizing that they can coexist peacefully. The speaker points out that many scholars now advocate for a harmonious relationship between the two, with science focusing on the physical world and religion on the spiritual. The concept of 'intelligent design' is discussed, noting that it is a belief rather than a scientific theory, and that even Darwin himself believed in design as pointing to an intelligent creator. The speaker uses the analogy of embryological development to suggest that just as humans are created through natural processes in the womb, so too might the universe have been created through evolutionary processes ordained by a divine entity.

10:01

📜 Reading the Bible Through a Scientific Lens

The final paragraph addresses the interpretation of the Bible in light of scientific understanding. It argues that the Bible should not be read as a scientific text but rather as a spiritual guide. The speaker discusses the ancient poetic and phenomenological language of the Bible, particularly in Genesis, which reflects the understanding of the cosmos at the time it was written. The paragraph also touches on Galileo's view that the Bible's purpose is to teach spiritual truths, not scientific facts. The speaker concludes by advocating for a 'two books model,' encouraging the exploration of both the 'book of God's works' (nature) and the 'book of God's words' (scriptures) to gain a comprehensive understanding of the world and our place in it.

Keywords

💡Uncertainty

Uncertainty in the context of the video refers to the doubt and lack of consensus surrounding the origins of the world. The speaker addresses this by discussing the debate between evolution and creationism, highlighting the public's curiosity and the ongoing quest for understanding. The term is used to set the stage for a broader conversation about the complexity of origins and the need to move beyond binary thinking.

💡Dichotomy

Dichotomy is used to describe the false division between two opposing viewpoints, in this case, evolution and creationism. The speaker argues against this simplistic binary, suggesting that there are more nuanced positions that can accommodate both scientific and religious perspectives. The term is crucial in the video's message, as it challenges the audience to consider a more inclusive approach to understanding the origins of life.

💡Evolution

Evolution, as discussed in the video, is a scientific theory that explains the diversity of life on Earth through natural processes over time. The speaker emphasizes the overwhelming evidence supporting evolution and positions it as a fact, not a matter of debate. The term is central to the video's exploration of scientific understanding and its relationship with religious beliefs.

💡Creationism

Creationism is presented as a religious belief that the universe and life were created by a divine being. The video discusses how creationism is often pitted against evolution in public discourse, but the speaker suggests that there can be a reconciliation between the two through a deeper understanding of both science and religion.

💡Evolutionary Creation

Evolutionary Creation is a concept introduced in the video that combines the scientific understanding of evolution with the belief in a creator. The speaker uses this term to illustrate a position where one can accept the evidence for evolution while also maintaining a belief in a divine creator, thus bridging the perceived gap between science and religion.

💡Teolog vs. Discology

These terms are used to differentiate between those who believe in a purpose or plan (teolog) in the universe and those who do not (discology). The speaker introduces these terms to highlight the spectrum of beliefs regarding the ultimate purpose or design in the cosmos, suggesting that this spectrum should be acknowledged and respected in discussions about origins.

💡Intelligent Design

Intelligent Design is discussed as a belief that the complexity and functionality in nature imply the work of an intelligent designer. The speaker clarifies that intelligent design is not a scientific theory but a philosophical stance. The term is used to challenge the notion that evolution and the belief in a creator are mutually exclusive.

💡Metaphysics

Metaphysics refers to the branch of philosophy that deals with abstract concepts such as existence, being, and knowledge. In the video, the speaker uses the term to describe the leap from scientific data to broader beliefs about the nature of reality, including the existence of a creator or purpose.

💡Ancient Science

Ancient Science is mentioned to describe the understanding of the natural world in the context of the time when religious texts were written. The speaker uses this term to explain that the descriptions of the universe in religious texts should be understood within their historical and cultural context, rather than being taken as literal scientific accounts.

💡Two Books Model

The Two Books Model is a concept introduced by Sir Francis Bacon, suggesting that there are two sources of knowledge: the book of God's works (nature) and the book of God's words (scripture). The speaker advocates for this model as a way to appreciate both scientific discoveries and religious teachings, promoting a harmonious view of knowledge that does not pit science against faith.

Highlights

The debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham on the origin of the world reflects the ongoing uncertainty and dichotomy in perspectives.

The dichotomy forces a choice between evolution as science and creation as religion, neglecting other credible positions.

The speaker identifies as both an Evangelical Theologian and an evolutionary biologist, challenging the binary view.

Charles Darwin himself believed in a personal God and saw no contradiction with his theory of evolution.

Introducing the terms 'teolog' and 'discolog' to differentiate between belief in a purposeful universe versus a purposeless one.

Evolution is defined as a scientific theory describing the natural origin of life, separate from spiritual or mystical considerations.

Creation is presented as a religious belief in a Creator, not a scientific explanation.

The concept of 'evolutionary creation' is introduced as a way to reconcile evolution with theism.

The embryology analogy is used to illustrate how religious people can accept natural processes as part of God's creation.

The speaker calls for a peaceful and fruitful relationship between science and religion, citing the existence of science-religion professors.

Science is limited to the physical, while religion and philosophy address metaphysical questions.

Intelligent design is described as a belief in an intelligent designer behind the complexity of nature, not a scientific theory.

Darwin's view on intelligent design is highlighted, showing his own belief in a designing mind in nature.

The speaker argues for an ancient understanding of nature in the Bible, such as the three-tier universe concept.

Genesis 1 is analyzed for its poetic and ancient scientific language, rather than literal scientific accuracy.

Galileo's perspective on the Bible as a guide to spiritual rather than scientific truth is mentioned.

The importance of defining terms like 'evolution' and 'creation' to avoid misunderstandings is emphasized.

The necessity of a step of faith or intellectual leap from scientific data to ultimate beliefs is discussed.

The speaker concludes by advocating for moving beyond the false dichotomy of evolution versus creation.

Sir Francis Bacon's 'two books model' is introduced as a way to value both the book of God's works (nature) and the book of God's words (scriptures).

Transcripts

our theme today is uncertainty when it

comes to the topic of the origin of the

world there's a lot of uncertainty in

North America for example as just noted

this past February there was a debate

between evolutionist Bill Nye the

Science Guy and creationist Ken Ham the

CEO of the Creation Museum in

Kentucky the fact that this debate

received over 7 million hits online

speaks of the uncertainty within the

minds of many a debate like this should

have never happened in

2014 so as my title suggests I think we

have to get beyond the billai versus

kenam so-called debate now I'm certain

most of you have identified the problem

this debate is cast within a simple

dichotomy forcing people into thinking

that there's only two credible positions

you notice the quotation marks you're

either on the evolution science go side

and of course there's no place for God

here or you're on the creation religion

side and this of course is God's side

purportedly but I have a question are

there only two credible positions when

it comes to Origins for example what do

you make of an individual like myself I

am a thoroughly committed and

Unapologetic Evangelical Theologian

trained to the PhD level I believe that

the Bible is the word of God and I've

experienced Miracles I believe in a

Creator so that makes me a creationist

and at the same time I am a thoroughly

committed and Unapologetic evolutionary

biologist also trained to the PHD level

I find the evidence for evolution to be

simply overwhelming there is no debate

evolution is a fact and I love the

explanatory power of evolutionary

theory so what do you make of that let

me

suggest yes I'm an evolutionist as well

let me suggest that there's someone out

there who would think my position is

being quite credible the man himself

Charles Robert Darwin who is the father

of modern evolutionary theory and late

in life he said the following it seems

to me absurd it's ridiculous to doubt

that a man or a woman may be an Ardent

theist that is one who believes in a

personal God and an evolutionist and

it's worth pointing out that when Darwin

wrote in his

autobiography and he published the

Origin of Species he believed in a

personal

god well let me suggest one way one

solution to getting Beyond this

dichotomy and we need to begin by

defining some terms two words that I

find absolutely essential in this

discussion are the wordsology and

discology TIY comes from the Greek term

Telos which means planner purpose do you

believe there's some sort of ultimate

plan or purpose in the universe if you

do you're a teolog if you don't you're a

discology now the word Evolution

evolution is a scientific theory that

describes the origin of life through

natural processes now watch my finger

here period science deals with the

physical not the mystical or the

spiritual when it comes to the term

creation creation is a religious belief

that the world was made by a Creator

watch my finger again period the

doctrine of creation does not deal with

how God created but rather with that God

created now that we have some basic

terms let's work out some relationships

between them now for most of us we have

been socially conditioned into believing

that evolution is drological in other

words that evolution is run necessarily

by Bland chance and irrational necessity

but let's think outside the box could it

be that evolution is a theological

process that this process has been

ordained and sustained by some sort of

creative mind and if indeed you would

believe that that would make you like me

an evolutionist also a creationist and

the term being used today is

evolutionary creation Now a lot of

religious people wrestle with the idea

of evolution but I think the embryology

Evolution analogy is helpful and in fact

it appears in Darwin's most famous book

The Origin of Species and it goes like

this I have never met a religious person

that when they were thinking about when

they were being created in their

mother's womb believes that God comes

out of Heaven to attach an arm or attach

a leg no most religious people believe

that they were created by God through

natural processes embryological and

developmental processes well why can't

there be another set of processes that

we call evolutionary processes by which

they were created by a

God now if I had about 20 minutes with

Bill NY this is what I'd like to point

out to him the basic relationship

between science and religion it's worth

noting that in the last 20 years there's

been an

explosion of books written by some of

the the best scholars in the world

showing how it's possible to have a

peaceful and fruitful relationship

between science and religion in fact

there are now science religion

professors in some of the best

universities in the world Oxford

Cambridge prinston Harvard and I always

like tacking on at the end of this list

little old St Joseph's College at the

University of Alberta kind of sounds

good doesn't

it now this is the basic Paradigm most

of us in the business

except what's science we all know this

science is about observations

experiments from which we get our

theories and laws again science is about

the physical not the spiritual the

mystical it's about the physical period

now when we finish doing our science

there's nothing wrong with doing this we

all ask those larger questions for

example is there some sort of mind or

maybe a god behind nature now of course

these are not scientific questions but

they're religious and philosophical

questions or if you want another term

these are metaphysical questions

questions beyond the physical now for

some people they come to the answer very

quickly through intuition for others

they go through a slower process an

analytical process of reason but here's

the bottom line and I think the most

important thing I'll say this

afternoon everybody after we've done our

science need to take a step of Faith

whether they're religious or not from

their scientific data to their ultimate

beliefs now this is the perfect

opportunity to Define this term

intelligent design which regrettably in

the last 15 years has been manipulated

and mangled by a group of American

anti-evolutionists no intelligent design

is not a scientific theory intelligent

design is a belief that beauty

complexity and functionality in nature

point to an intelligent designer

now the thing to note this was Darwin's

definition of design and in fact in the

autobiography he said when he wrote the

Origin of Species he believed in

intelligent

design so let's give you a practical

example coming back to our basic

Paradigm take the standard cell about a

thousandth of an inch and in that single

cell stretch out all the DNA to about a

yard of DNA and on that yard of DNA you

get the information content of a third

volume encyclopedia watch my finger

again period that's what science gives

us now once we've done this scientific

analysis we can't help but ask the

question you know does this reflect some

sort of amazing engineering mind well

for some individuals Like Richard

Dawkins the famous atheist in Oxford in

taking his step of Faith he would say

that intelligent design is a delusion

your mind is simply tricking you on the

other hand and I'm the first to identify

this in my taking a step of faith I

think intelligent design is real

well if I had 20 minutes with Ken Ham

this is what I'd like to point out to

him that the Bible has an ancient

understanding of nature your best

example of this ancient science is the

three- tier Universe in the Bible and

you don't have to go very far into the

Bible to start seeing some of this

ancient science Genesis 1 that first

chapter Creation in Six Days on the

second day of creation it says the

following and God created a firmament

the Hebrew word Ria is best translated

as firmament a hard firm structure to

separate the the waters above from

Waters below and you're going what in

the world is this

stop when you read ancient texts you

need to respect its intellectual context

put yourself back in the ancient world

suspend your wonderful 21st century

scientific categories look up and what

do you see it's blue it spits at you

sometimes rain falls from above so

that's not such a bad idea let's go on

to the fourth day of creation and God

places the Sun Moon and stars where in

the firmament isn't that what it looks

like from the perspective of the naked

eye or to use a technical term from an

ancient

phenomenological

perspective now we've all heard the

song Walk Like an

Egyptian well you got to think like an

Egyptian let's take a look what the

Egyptians believe there it is your three

tier Universe in red there's your

firmament speckled with all the stars

and above is a sea of water and we know

it's to Sea of water cuz take a look at

the god Ray the sun god he's in a boat

what does he do he crosses the Heavenly

sea to enter the underworld to zoom back

to the east to rise again this is the

best science of the day and you even

find it also in the Bible That's what

everyone

believed continuing with this first

chapter of the Bible a little more time

with Ken Ham I'd like to point out that

the Bible has an ancient

poetry when it comes to this first

chapter Genesis 1 a pair of parallel

panels the Bible begins this way in the

beginning God created the heavens and

the earth now the Earth was here's the

Hebrew toou boho formless and empty that

rhyming scheme would have caught the

attention of the listeners and the

readers and the way God creates in this

first chapter is he solves the

formlessness in the first three days the

first panel and then the emptiness the

next three days so on day one God

separates light from Darkness on day two

now that you know what a firmament is

separates the waters above from Waters

below and day three separates water from

dry land now check out day four what do

God create God creates the sun moon and

stars why it's an alignment or parallel

to light being created on day one now

day five is interesting flying creatures

and seeing sea creatures being being

made here's a question for you

biologists in the audience what is the

taxonomical connection between fish and

birds good that's the answer there isn't

one

but there's a poetic connection take a

look at this flying creatures why empty

airspace see creatures Define body of

water land creatures and humans dry land

and I'll leave you with just one

question is this science I think you

know the answer now we all know galile

was being this amazing scientist and

astronomer he was also a very devout

Roman Catholic and I think he offers Ken

Ham a valuable insight for reading the

the Bible Galileo said the following

God's intention in the Bible is to teach

us how to go to heaven not how the

heavens go in other words the Bible is

about spiritual things not scientific

things the Bible is not a book of

science well let me draw now some

conclusions I think you'll agree with me

words are very important we need to

Define our terms like the words

Evolution and creation so we don't talk

past one another I think my most

important point this afternoon is this

is to recognize that everyone I'm

talking about religious people

non-religious people atheist agnostics

everyone takes a step of Faith or if you

want to call it an intellectual leap

from our scientific experience and data

to our ultimate beliefs there is no

mathematical formula to go from science

to

metaphysics and then finally the main

point this afternoon is I think we have

to move beyond the bill NY versus Ken

Ham de or stated in another way I think

we have to move Beyond these Evolution

versus creation debates why because this

is a false dichotomy there's more than

simply two positions and in

closing I would like to suggest that

moving beyond our uncertainty with

regards to Origins that we consider what

is called the two books model and

there's no better example of this than

Sir Francis Bacon at the beginning of

the 17th century which by the way he was

one of the founding fathers of modern

science and said the following and I've

updated the language let no woman or man

out of ConEd or laziness think or

believe that anyone can search too far

or be too well informed in the book of

God's works that is the Magnificent book

of nature or in the book of God's words

which are the scriptures and religious

texts and bacon concludes instead let

everyone endlessly improve their

understanding of both and that's my hope

and prayer for all of us thank you for

your attention

[Applause]