An Honest Conversation With Elevation Church’s Copywriter
Summary
TLDRNikki Sheerer, who oversees language and messaging for Elevation Church, discusses developing an accessible church voice and style guide to unify communications across a large ministry. She explains tailoring language for different audiences based on familiarity with church culture, strategically using platforms like social media, and practically applying scripture. The goal is extending genuine invitations that meet people where they are, then lead them to a place of greater understanding.
Takeaways
- 😊 Nikki oversees Elevation Church's brand voice and language guides to unify communication across the organization
- 📝 Elevation aims for their church voice to be casual, concise, and conversational to be accessible to a global audience
- 👂 Pastor Steven's direct preaching voice differs from Elevation's more nuanced brand voice tailored to various audiences
- 🔎 When tragedy strikes, Elevation comments if it connects to their values or local community otherwise they opt out
- 🎯 For Easter, Elevation focuses messaging on inviting unchurched people rather than using insider language
- 💡 To give feedback, Nikki references their brand voice values, explains why something is unclear, and makes suggestions
- 📱 Elevation finds Facebook and Instagram most effective for ads while experimenting cautiously with TikTok
- 🙌 Nikki aims for ad copy to be approachable yet substantive rather than generic or silly based on the target demographic
- ❤️ Though not a traditional pastor role, Nikki sees her work as highly pastoral by empathizing and guiding Elevation's voice
- 👥 Four key questions guide Nikki: who is the audience, what do I want them to hear/do, and how do I want them to feel
Q & A
What is the mission of Elevation Church?
-The mission of Elevation Church is 'We exist so that people far from God will be raised to life in Christ'.
What are the 3 characteristics Nikki uses to describe Elevation Church voice?
-The 3 characteristics Nikki uses to describe Elevation Church voice are: casual, concise, and conversational.
How does Nikki differentiate between Pastor Steven Furtick's voice and Elevation Church voice?
-Pastor Furtick's voice tends to be more direct, while Elevation Church voice aims to provide more context and application for people. Furtick speaks to a wider audience beyond those attending the church.
What does Nikki say is the most important thing for Elevation Church at Easter?
-According to Nikki, the most important thing for Elevation Church at Easter is inviting new people to attend the church service.
What guiding principle does Nikki describe for developing language at Elevation Church?
-Nikki says an important guiding principle is that 'anyone can be a part of our church' - people should not feel excluded by the language used.
How does Nikki decide what Elevation Church should post about national events?
-Nikki says they will comment on events connected to their values, ministry partners, or local areas where they have a campus. They try not to just make token posts about events.
Why doesn't Nikki use the word 'resurrection' when speaking to new people about Easter?
-She says resurrection is not a word used in everyday conversation for people unfamiliar with church. So concepts like Jesus coming back to life can be explained without potentially excluding language.
What 4 key questions does Nikki use to guide her communication?
-The 4 questions are: 1) Who am I speaking to? 2) What do I want them to hear? 3) What do I want them to do? and 4) How do I want them to feel?
What are some of Elevation Church's main advertising platforms?
-Nikki mentions platforms like Facebook, Instagram, Spotify and Amazon. But she doesn't oversee the full strategy.
What closing advice does Nikki give to churches of all sizes?
-Know what you're trying to do, who you're trying to reach, and how you want to communicate clearly. Use tools like Grammarly and AI to aid communication without making things unnecessarily difficult.
Outlines
😊 Introducing Nikki, who oversees language and copyrighting for Elevation Church
The hosts introduce their guest Nikki Sheerer, who is responsible for Elevation Church's brand voice and language used in communications. She previously worked in social media and children's ministry at Elevation.
📝 Defining Elevation's brand voice: casual, concise and conversational
Nikki explains that Elevation Church voice refers to the collective voice representing the church as a whole. It aims to be casual, concise and conversational across languages and locations. This is distinct from individual voices like Pastor Steven Furtick's, which is very direct.
😮 Balancing pastor Steven's voice and Elevation's brand voice
Nikki differentiates between Pastor Steven's more targeted messaging and Elevation's broader churchwide communications. She gives examples of how they might post similar content but position it differently based on the audience.
🤔 Why differentiate the voices?
The hosts question the value of keeping Pastor Steven's voice separate from Elevation's. Nikki explains they reach different audiences - his is broader beyond Elevation, while the church targets its own members.
🗣 Casting vision for consistent language
The hosts ask how Elevation gets staff aligned on using the brand voice. Nikki shares they have language guides and gets key leaders' buy-in. Small churches should identify their best writer to spearhead defining their church's voice.
🧐 Giving constructive feedback on language
Asked to share a specific example, Nikki describes giving feedback to make copy match Elevation's casual, concise and conversational style. She offers tips for giving critical feedback without being hurtful.
☺️ Talking about Easter for churched vs. unchurched people
When describing Easter to those unfamiliar with church, Elevation avoids insider language, instead clearly explaining Jesus' resurrection. For churchgoers, they focus on outreach and inviting others.
🙌 Creating special initiative content: book release and Easter
Nikki shares specifics around promoting Pastor Steven's new book release. For Easter, Elevation's priority is inviting unchurched people. She contrasts messaging to church insiders vs outsiders.
😇 Approaching work pastorally: Who is the audience?
Asked if her work feels pastoral, Nikki shares 4 questions that guide her to communicate appropriately to different audiences based on who they are, what they should hear/do and how they should feel.
🌟 Parting words of wisdom: Focus on excellence regardless of resources
In closing, Nikki encourages ministries to clearly define their goals and audiences without needing lots of people or money. She recommends tools like Grammarly and AI to maximize focus on excellence.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡language style guide
💡brand voice
💡feedback
💡social media policies
💡special initiatives
💡demographic targeting
💡approachability
💡crossing the line
💡pastoral ministry
💡practical advice
Highlights
Elevation Church voice is casual, concise and conversational
Pastor Steven's voice is more direct, gets straight to the point
Elevation Church voice has more context and application for people's lives
Use casual language so anyone can understand and feel welcomed
Focus Easter communication on inviting unchurched people
Mobilize volunteers to invite people 15 minutes before each service
Give volunteers invites and resources to extend personal invites
Have fun with invitations, make it a competition between teams
Advertise Easter on social platforms like Facebook and Instagram
Use kids in ads - they are endearing and make people smile
Ask who you're speaking to, what you want them to hear, do and feel
Use tools like Grammarly and AI to improve communication
Focus on excellence regardless of church size
Let youth accounts be silly while main accounts stay focused
Get Pastor Steven Furtick's new book in audio with bonus content
Transcripts
today on the show we're joined by Nikki
Sherer who oversees all copyrighting and
language for churchwide initiatives at
Elevation Church this means Nikki is
responsible for what elevation says and
how they say it now you might be
familiar with a church style guide for
things like this is our logo and this is
the color we use and this is the font
that we use essentially what Nikki
oversees is a language style guide which
is probably not something your church
has but might be what you need
especially because the words that we use
in person and online do matter a lot
more than our local so let's dive
in well hey there and welcome to the pro
Church tool show we're here to help you
in your church navigate the biggest
communication shift in 500 years I'm
Brady Shir your host I'm joined as
always by my co-host it's Alexander
Mills hello hello and today we're also
joined by Nikki sheerer of Elevation
Church Nikki oversees copyrighting and
language for all of elevation churchwide
initiatives prior to that Nikki was
involved in elevation social media for
about 3 years in children's ministry for
a few years before that and her husband
is also
a campus pastor at one of elevation
locations Nikki welcome to the show
thanks I'm glad to be here I feel like
one of the first things that we should
tackle is our shared last name no we are
not related but surely Nikki you know
the pain uniquely that I feel when
people try to pronounce our last name
it's not easy to add the eer to Shear it
just gets shortened Brady
Shear it's very challenging Nikki I know
one of the things that you oversee at
elevation
is what you described as Elevation
Church voice and I think that's where
I'd like to start our conversation what
exactly is Elevation Church
voice well um it's the way that we speak
um and and as a as a church grows uh the
number of people communicating on behalf
of that church grows as well and and
then there can become a lot of variety
in the way that we see things and all of
that and and so when I speak of
Elevation Church voice um it's a
distinction because we also have uh
Pastor Steven fct's voice and we have
the voice of of our pastor Holly feric
and the voice of our children's ministry
right all these different things and so
when we talk about a collective voice
like Elevation Church voice as opposed
to an individual voice like Pastor
Steven fct's voice it's really different
right because a collective voice
shouldn't sound like one person it
should sound like a group of people in
in essence and so I describe when I
teach it um Elevation Church voice is uh
casual concise and
conversational and and and we developed
that because um our church is a global
Church uh we have a lot of locations but
our ministry is worldwide and and when
you can and when you can give it
parameters like that um that means that
we can have Elevation Church voice in
English or Spanish um we can have it
Elevation Church voice in the United
States or somewhere in Europe and um
because casual is casual in whatever
language or place that you're speaking
it for instance uh you answer one of the
first questions that I wanted to ask
which was how do you differentiate
between Pastor step's voice and
elevation voice are would you say that
obviously the difference exists is the
elevation kind of brand voice inspired
by Pastor stepen and the reason I ask is
because like my exposure to elevation is
so much influenced by like what I see on
my social feed which is mostly going to
be you know sermon clips and things like
that from Pastor Steven so are there
carryovers or are they completely
distinct um there are some carryovers
but they're actually pretty distinct
Pastor Steven's voice is really direct
um a lot of a lot of the quotes the
things that people love that he says um
they're very unique to him and and he
gets straight to the point um he doesn't
he's not very um like soft in his
approach where as as a church sometimes
we want to be um and so uh when the
difference between if you look at Pastor
Steven's social media and the church's
social media they might show you the
same sermon moment for instance but
Pastor Steven social media is going to
show you that sermon moment and and the
caption is going to be direct it's going
to be clear it's probably going to be
really short but the church's uh the
lens that we give it is going to there's
going to be more of a lens to it so
we're going to talk more about like what
does this mean for your life and and how
you can you apply that and and so it's
just taking more of that like active
approach to to really like help people
take it to another
level okay so I guess my big question
then would be what's the value in
keeping them them different I I would
expect I think oh it would be good if
the voices were closer to the same
what's the value for keeping them
separate uh oh gosh there's several um
they have different audiences first
thing um Pastor Stephen there are a lot
of people who follow him who don't
follow Elevation Church um so think of
people who are happily connected to
their own church somewhere else um but
they enjoy watching Pastor Steven's
sermons or they like to follow his
social media because it's encouraging
something like that um so they're going
to engage more specifically with his
sermon content or he just released a
book and be really interested in his
book content and all of that whereas the
church and he's going to occasionally
mention Church things that are connected
to that as well but he recognizes that
his audience is larger than that uh his
audience he's not always trying to get
people to come to our church because
he's also ministering to people who are
already connected in other places uh but
for Church we're trying to show people
how hey we want to talk about this
sermon you can join a small group during
the week and that's not necessarily
something that that's better coming from
the church voice than from Pastor
Steven's
voice I I think one thing I'd like to
demystify for everyone listening is I
think it's probably easy to listen to
what Nikki's describing say hey big
words our church is international we are
reaching this many people we have you
know millions in our audience and
perhaps mistakenly think that having a a
brand Voice or brand guide or a voice
guide that you can share with people on
staff isn't maybe necessary for for your
church you one of the things that we
hear all the time Nikki is like hey man
I was doing an announcement and then the
children's Pastor got up and like they
did not stick to like the idea that we
talked about in staff meeting and so I
would love to hear from you how do you
cast vision from like a language side
those three C's are excellent how do you
get a church of your size to stay on
message because I'm sure if you can
describe how you do it we can apply that
in a church of any size yeah um I think
maybe we're going to talk about this
later but and there are a lot of
different ways there's some things that
we have so we have a style guide like
this is the way we do dates and times
right like that kind of a thing and I
think every church should do that um
this is the way that we say our church
name this is this is the way we
capitalize these things um this is the
way that we say um someone's um title on
staff uh because it should be the same
everywhere whoever says it right um so
wherever we put 9:30 a.m. it should look
the same way every time are we uppercase
lowercase we use the periods do we not
use the periods right um it should
always be the same and so so on one hand
we have the style guide that's everyone
across the church this is how we
communicate like this whether it's in an
email or social media this is the way we
say these things separate from that um
when we talk about specific things like
we're about to I just got out of a
meeting for Easter right and so when we
talk about Easter how are we going to
talk about that um how are we going to
see that churchwide what are what are
the what are the things we're going to
put around that and so so we create a
guide for everyone to use um in uh we
call those language guides and and
they're so helpful because um you you
create this resource and you get it in
the hands of everyone who will be
communicating and then they have
parameters to stay in for that Nikki
this is this conversation is already so
fascinating because uh to a lot of the
folks listening I'm sure the idea of a
style guide is really familiar and
that's most often a visual element how
do we want these things look how do we
how do we type 9:30 a.m. right with the
periods or without uh but talking about
a language guide it's it's really
fascinating and and really appropriate
I'm I'm I'm confident that a lot of us
who work in church are thinking like oh
yeah I wish that everyone on staff or
all the volunteers would talk about this
thing that we really want to talk about
the way that we want to talk about it
and so I I want to talk a little bit
more about your language guys in a few
in a few moments but I want to just take
one step back and just hear a littleit a
little bit from you like you're talking
about how you instill this language once
you have it but I'm C ious how do you
mind this language out in the first
place like how do you discern what
Elevation Church voice is at all well I
mean I didn't decide that that was
decided before
I um uh but I I think um I think that
we're careful to so our church just
celebrated our 18th anniversary right
and and so the the way that we say
things that we said things 18 years ago
and the way we say them now like what we
might call casual 18 years ago and what
we call Casual now I just think you have
to always be kind of like uh self-
policing that um like hey this is
getting this language is getting tired I
know this is like this sounds like us
but and so I think there has to be
someone who owns it and again this works
for a small church right who on your
staff is good at
writing that's really all it is uh
there's probably someone who is better
at it than everyone else um and and so
so give them the re on it and then and
then get the and then get the important
voices in the room right so then you've
got you've got your pastor you know uh
your your area directors whatever it is
um and say like hey what do you guys
think about this how does this resonate
with you and and and and then if you can
have a person who's leading it and you
choose of the person who's deciding on
it who's making the decision and then
you get the key influencers in the room
you can hash it out and land on some
things that you all feel good about and
then if everyone agrees on the direction
um then you really got something
unifying there a couple weeks ago we
were talking with uh Transformation
Church and they used similar language
they said uh the guy we were talking to
said look there always has to be a hater
in the room someone that can say you
know and and you're you you use the word
policing so I'd really like for you if
you would to put on your kind of
Sergeant sheerer uh cap cap for us can
you tell us about like an actual time
the more granular the better where
you're like hey this is the language we
used here's why it doesn't align with
what weed and here's what we to it to
inad because I think this can get AIT
esoteric for people that maybe unlike
you and who like in copyrighting day in
day out so the more like practical I
think it helped land the plane a bit for
folks yes so this is my job I I do it
every single day so uh a lot of a lot of
what I do is I give feedback on copy
that I see come through right so someone
might
feedback and so but this is that leasing
right is that I get to be the person who
um who watches out for our voice in the
sense we've got an email going out to
thousands of people right and and and
when I see the copy for it uh there
might be something in there that's it's
not clear um you know like this the
communication feels a little bit muddy
or something like that or or it's uh
it's coming across too formal which is
not Elevation Church voice is not formal
we're casual um that's really important
to us and so uh so whatever it is the
specific thing then I will I will
comment with the um I try really hard
not to ever say like hey this doesn't
sound like us without saying why it
doesn't sound like us so that's like the
really important thing and when you've
got like those those um those kind of
guides those values lining you lining
you up for like hey we all agreed on
this is what we sound like and so when I
read this my perspective is that it's
not clear uh this feels confusing to me
can we make this clearer and so I I
think like just being able to Point
again right back to those this is what
we said our voice is and so to me and
maybe to you this is clear but it's not
to me and so it should be clear to all
of us to anyone who looks at this so
let's let's rework it again to make it
clear is that is that how does that
answer the question yeah and you really
answered the question when you shared
those three you know concise casual and
conversational because you know it's
it's so funny usually the larger
churches have a really good grasp on
this because by necessity if you don't
have a grasp on values that are clearly
cast in the form of vision chaos Reigns
Supreme right and and in smaller
churches we can sometimes get away with
that because like hey it's a small
church family of course it's chaos you
know it's like a regular family it's
just wild but like the larger you get
you have multiple departments multiple
heads you got these people reporting to
these people reporting to these people
you have to have these values lined up
that being said I think for every size
church this is so important what do we
talk about all the time the challenge
when you're working with creatives and
this is creative writing but sharing a
sermon is creative Worship Is Creative
so much of what we do in church is
storytelling and creative how do you
give feedback how are you critical how
do you tell someone okay this needs to
be changed and it sounds like maybe a
big big part of your job is finding ways
to give that critical feedback but it
not being hurtful or offensive and it's
still achieving the end objective that
you want could you talk maybe about like
what are some of the biggest challenges
that you encounter and have to
continually overcome when you're talking
about giving that feedback yeah um and I
know like people don't really love the
word feedback I don't have a better word
for it though um but I um uh so the
first thing I would say is that
especially for my copyrighting team uh
we have values uh for our team and um
and one of them is that we're flexible
um and I kind of having in the
description underneath that like don't
like our first draft want us to take
another shot we'd love to uh we can't
wait to make this better and and I think
when you come in like when I interview
someone I I start right at the gate like
how would it feel for you to um have to
rework every single thing that you have
that you write for us forever right like
there's never going to be a point when
someone's not saying like hey can we try
it this way hey can we do that instead
there's you're never going to like
outgrow the season because we always
want to get better uh we always want to
we're we're eager to hear what someone
else's Viewpoint is on what we wrote and
so so there's never I think when you can
kind of demystify the like I think we
like to think well I just need feedback
for a little while and then it'll get
good enough and I won't need it anymore
right um well then if if no one's
dialoguing with you about your art your
creativity your your talent whatever it
is if you don't have someone dialoguing
with you about it it's probably not
getting better um because you're not
getting an outside voice on it and so I
so just I would say we set the
expectation for from the beginning like
that's how we do it uh we we always have
someone else look at things at least one
other person many things have more than
that um so we've got someone looking
like purely from like oh that grammar is
not correct and then someone else
looking from the like oh that's not uh
we need to add this information that
information is missing and and and so
when you've got like these different
voices in there um uh and you set that
expectation when people are expecting
that then it's not it's not hurtful
right it's not like you don't take it as
personal like this is just part of the
job this is we do this like if I worked
for a newspaper every single thing I
wrote would be
copyedited yeah you know Nikki we sat
down to to chat with you about you know
language guides and and our conversation
has quickly just kind of evolved into
just general leadership in church which
I mean for so many people listening to
the show like these are the things we're
working through how to lead teams and
and right now we're talking about um
policies for language which I mean
you've done such a good job of
articulating how to give feedback in
that space and it's what we talk about
in the show too about having policies
for social media for example and how to
make decisions about what to post and
what not to post well we hold it up
against the policy we've agreed on these
things and so we get to hold it up
against that for for your case in the in
the language Department you have this
policy we are we're casual we're concise
we're conversational and so when you're
giving feedback you get to hold it up
against that and say you know what this
is not clear enough this is not concise
enough um I do want to talk about I want
to transition now a little bit into your
social media policies um and some of the
decisions that you make in and amongst
your team um you know we we have ations
with people on the show all this uh all
the time social media managers folks who
are posting for their churches and and
we we usually get to the point of the
conversation talking about like how do
you decide what to post and what not to
post and in America and a a church of
your influence and your affluence like
something you surely run into a lot is
like when there is a national tragedy
for example like how do we decide what
to post what not to post folks are
looking to elevation for Spiritual
Direction what does what does God say
about this what does our what does the
what do the Christians say about this
and you're one of the churches that
folks are looking to and so I I guess
that's my question is like how are you
making decisions about what to post and
what not to post um when a situation
like that whether National or otherwise
is kind of
unfolding um I I'm going to answer this
really practically and specifically for
you but the first thing I'm going to say
is like you're not going to get it right
every time it's
okay um you seek wise counsel and you
pray about it and you make the best call
that's that's what you do um but but
here's how we decide
um and I will say like we haven't always
gotten it right um there have been times
where we're like ah we should have
posted about that sooner or now we
shouldn't have posted about that one we'
we've self-reflected a couple times like
that um but in general
um we are going to make uh comments that
are connected to our values what matters
to us things um or here's here's I'll be
really practical we have um like
physical locations as well as an online
Ministry and so say um there's a tragedy
um I personally live uh near our Ron Oak
Virginia campus so say uh something
terrible happens in the Rono Virginia
area our church is going to make a
statement about that uh we're going to
we're going to say something that's
going to comfort specifically the people
who are connected to our ministry from
that area that matters to us we've got
people there we minister to people there
that's specific to us um as opposed to
if the same exact thing happened in
another area where we don't have like an
established Ministry maybe we haven't
met people in that City before in person
or something like that then we're less
likely to say a comment about that for
instance we also have like core core
values um related like to our Outreach
specifically and so like for some church
that would look like missions right
maybe you've got like a mission presence
in like a certain area that your church
is just like really connected to and for
us we've got like certain certain
Ministry partners that we partner with
and and so uh what that that Partners
sorry that partnership also um comes out
in like how we speak about things and so
um so it really is it's personal right
so personal is powerful um we're the one
thing that we are pretty committed to is
we're not going to say something just to
say something so uh I'm not going to do
pray hash pray for whatever um we kind
of committed like we're not going to do
that kind of post anymore if we're going
to do that we're actually going to write
The Prayer um I mean I'm not just going
to like try to do like the cool trendy
thing I want to do something that gives
people value or uh or helps them
Comforts them gives them something like
that a church needs to give them right
so that's I mean you mentioned
reflecting on ways that you've missed
before in the past my sense is maybe
you've reflected and be like hey you
know we kind of just did like the token
post there and next time let's do
something that's a bit more substantive
because we don't want to Simply do
something because oh everyone else is
and by us not doing it there's almost
like the sin of mission of us like
opting out of it so if we are we're
going to make it substantive is is that
accurate oh yeah absolutely excellent
okay it's funny because uh we've never
spoken and I don't know about you know
elevation specific policy on this but uh
this is identically what we have shared
for years um in response to people
asking us this happened should we say it
we've always had two simple principles
one does it align with your Church's
existing Ministries specifically so like
if there's something to do with like you
know um young mothers uh oh it's it's
abortion it's something like that and
you have like a huge emphasis at your
church in your Ministries already great
or is it local if it's local then great
if it's neither of those two things you
have like the freedom to just opt out
because it doesn't actually align with
your existing Ministry and so if
anything it could kind of look like
you're you know a front runner and
wanting to jump on the trend just to you
know virtue signal let's uh talk
about special initiatives um you are in
the middle of
book season with Pastor Steven yes it is
the middle six months okay there you go
do you feel like you're coming out of it
are we're getting close to that is the a
little bit yeah uh it's also Easter
season you know you mentioned just
coming out of an Easter meeting uh
Easter's a bit earlier this year but by
the time this goes out it is still pre-
Easter I'd love to hear about like what
are you specifically tackling for Easter
right now like okay this is going to be
a bigger service for most churches what
are some of the things that you have to
get your you know ducks in a row as it
were in respect to
Easter um for us the most important
thing on Easter is inviting people to
church um it is uh it's the Sunday for
us that we have one of the highest
attendance people tend to come to Easter
more than Christmas um and so it's the
it's and I think a lot of that is uh
location specific uh so for instance uh
how people are going to come in the
Southern United States as opposed to
Canada that will probably be different
right and so so you have to apply this
to your to your own scenario but um but
for us we know that we tend to see
people um more easily come to church on
Easter and so knowing that uh we try to
capitalize on the opportunity um the
mission of Elevation Church We Exist so
that people far from God will be raised
to life in Christ that's our mission and
and so when I think about Easter and I
think about the mission of reaching
people far from God I
and and and what Jesus like Easter and
Christmas are the only two Sundays of
the year that are actually wrapped
around a particular passage in the Bible
right a lot of most of our other Sundays
are whatever the pastor wants to preach
on you know any particular thing or
whatever but but Easter and Christmas
are both around particular biblical
events and so this particular biblical
event of Easter is tied directly to our
mission um and so that's so important to
us and so when I think about how I'm
going to talk about Easter I'm thinking
about talking to people far from God um
so because that's the thing that matters
most to us and so uh so just to like
give you just like a teeny bit of a
glimpse I'm talking all the way from
people who have been in our church for
years and I want them to invite people
to church all the way to people who've
never heard of our church before and
trying to get them to come to church
right people who are unchurched you
might say and so how do I talk to those
two people are really different um but
I'm putting a lot of my focus energy
time resources toward what I would call
the cold audience as people far from God
and so I'm not going to say the word
Calvary not going to say the word
Resurrection I'm not going to say the
blood of Jesus right um I'm not going to
say any of these words that make someone
feel like an outsider this is really
important um an important guiding
principle for how we develop language is
um anyone can be a part of our church it
might not be for everyone everyone might
not like it but anyone can come um you
don't have to understand what we're you
know any fancy language there's not any
prerequisite to be able to come here and
so so when we're thinking about such a
like steeped in Tradition holiday like
Easter and how we talk to someone who's
not steeped in that tradition and how we
get them to connect to it and come to it
that's really important to us that's
such good Insight because I think a lot
of us know this anecdotally that when
we're trying to communicate about
whether it's Easter or anything else
we're doing at church that's where we
get bogged down a little bit is in the
messy middle because we all know
regardless of the size of our church
that we're talking to two distinct
groups of people folks who are either
plugged in at church know the language
know the lingo attend every Sunday and
folks who don't come to church maybe
who've never heard the language or the
lingo but we want them to come to church
on Sunday and so it sounds like maybe
what you're describing is that you are
creating different content pieces for
these two different groups of people is
that is that true and if it is can you
give me an example of um you know one of
each pieces of of content but for the
same
event you boy you're you're you're
playing with my memory here because I
don't have it up in front of me but I
can give you um that's okay I can give
you I can give you a little bit here um
so here's here's a good example um we
were using um the verse and boy you're
really testing my memory here I think
it's John 16 33 but it doesn't matter
the one that says um in this world uh
you will have trouble but take heart
I've overcome the world right that verse
um and and we really love that for
Easter because um it has this tension in
it of like there's going to be trouble
but everything's going to be okay and
the reason everything's going to be okay
is because of Jesus and and so we can we
can take that that tension that we're
talking about and we can talk to our
warm audience um and so I'm going to
talk to them uh from stage on Sunday
right if they're in the room then
they're a warm audience um I'm going to
talk to them in people whose emails I've
already gathered um they've already
engaged with us in some manner I'm going
to talk to them from that that warmer um
angle where I'm going to talk to them
about hey there's someone in your life
who's going through a hard time right
now uh there's someone in your life who
needs the hope of Christ um and they
need to know that even though they're
going through a hard time everything's
going to be okay who are you inviting to
Easter that's how I'm going to say that
to my warm audience but to my cold
audience which is like uh uh ads is a
great spot for this but also like again
I Love Thinking of small Church contact
because I've been in a small Church
before too um I had Church experience
before elevation and and so maybe to you
this is like a social media post that
you boost a little bit right it's just
like a small thing but if you do that
it's going to hit some people who aren't
familiar with your church and that's
going to be a cold audience and so for
them that's going to be more
like uh life is hard right now but
there's hope um come find out why join
us for Easter at elevation um and that's
like maybe a little cheesier than I'd
actually write it but but off the cuff
that's on the spot on the spot that's
good enough that gives you but that
gives you kind of like the difference
right where I'm I'm uh I'm I'm basing it
in scripture I'm pulling out like what
we call like a felt need or attention
and then I'm thinking about how does
that matter the person who's already
coming to church and what action step do
I want them to take I want them to come
and invite somebody how does that matter
to somebody who doesn't come to church
why would they even want to come um and
and so kind of thinking about that both
ways so you talked about the importance
of making this big push for invitation
at Easter bigger than Christmas there's
the existing willingness for folks to
come maybe region specific I'm confident
that a big part of making those invites
is empowering people in the existing
Church to make those invites themselves
personally so are you
like resourcing folks with like hey when
you invite them talk about it like this
all over the
place what does that actually look like
are you handing out pamphlets
like yes I mean we've done this so many
ways so one thing that we do at all of
our campuses is a Elevation Church is
heavily volunteer Le um our our staff at
campuses is low uh there there'll be
like maybe four to 10 Camp staff members
on a campus and so the rest of it is all
volunteers and leaders and um and so we
have a volunteer rally every Sunday and
that's a really um important moment of
investment on our campus um it will be
right before we're expecting guests to
arrive uh most campuses it's 45 minutes
before church and we have this little
this touch base of about 15 minutes and
that right there is a really important
spot where we mobilize people with
information with assets with uh how-tos
with uh we'll have fun with it uh you
know can our children's ministry or our
guest experience team invite the most
people to church let's see how you know
we'll track it we have we have a great
time with it or so we have fun with it
we'll make it really spiritual uh
everyone write down the first name of
the person that you're inviting to
church this Sunday we're going to pray
over them together right now um uh
partner up with the person next to you
uh share the name first name of the
person you're inviting this week pray
over each other so so in our in a really
intimate setting with among our
volunteers that's more what it looks
like
but from stage uh when you're C when
you're communicating to the whole
congregation that looks like hey on your
way out today we're going to give you
five invites to Easter and we want you
to hand these out to five people this
week for sure you know five people that
don't go to church anywhere that you
think might come why not hand them an
invite put it you know put it under
their windshield wi whatever it is I
we'll give them ideas but but just to
kind of give you like the contrast there
of how we would communicate that in
different ways but we really try very
hard um to put resources in people's
hands so uh just like usually they're
like little square invites or something
like that um sometimes they're clever
sometimes they're just really like clear
but beautifully designed um we change
them up but yeah it's that's a pretty
big thing for us okay I got to ask it
really stood out to me when you were
describing language for invitation and I
think it's really important here to
distinguish what Nikki's describing as
the starting point for folks and then
where you eventually get led to to when
you actually attend church and how those
are very very different the starting
point is not the end point but you said
one word we're not going to use in
talking about Easter to folks that don't
know anything about church is the word
Resurrection I think saying we plead the
blood of Christ over you I think it's
understandable why we might not use that
language but it's so common in church to
be like you know what's next week
Resurrection Sunday we often retitle
Easter to put that directly into the
name so can you talk about like the
decision for why not to use something uh
like that for someone that might be like
wait a minute why can't we use
that uh so just to like be clear we'll
use that in church uh you'll hear Pastor
Steven say that you'll hear our host say
that from stage uh where we're not using
that is outside um so uh and that's
because uh Resurrection is not an
everyday conversation if you talk to
someone who doesn't know Christ they are
never going to say the word resurrection
that there just not like it's just not
going to be it's not a word that's in
normal language and so I instead of
saying but they do know what Easter is
they do know Easter Sunday and so so we
don't christianize it in the in the
language to people who are far from God
um I'd rather say um Jesus was raised to
life I'd rather say that Jesus came back
to life again after dying for us I'd
rather say that um it's clear you it's
weird what how did that happen but still
like you get what I'm
saying yeah and I love the the way that
you've talked about hey here's how we're
going to talk about with folks that are
familiar with the language and here's
how we're not going to talk about it so
there's a source scripture and that
Source scripture inspires two different
expressions of the language so for
instance you could say to someone that
is not going to ever use the word
Resurrection like Hey we're bringing
hope out of hopelessness well what is
that that's Resurrection you take
something that's dead and you're
bringing it back to life but it's an
accessible language that someone that
doesn't have any like experience with
like wait wait what does resurrection
mean it's the same meaning to them and
you can meet them where they're at and
then it sounds like hey once we're in
church that's the whole point now we're
going to lead them to where we want them
to be yeah
absolutely okay let's talk about ads you
mentioned uh doing ads copy I'd love to
know what are the advertising or
Outreach platforms that elevation is
seeing the most traction with right now
I can't speak into that a lot um because
I'm not behind the strategy of it um but
we have we have all like the the basic
spots that we certainly are very present
on uh Facebook and Instagram uh we're
having fun experimenting on Tik Tok
still that's that's still like a growing
space we experiment with it I don't
think that's for everyone and I don't
think it's for every Church um but I do
think that Facebook and Instagram are
for every church still um those uh you
should be on there um but then uh
outside of that it depends on what it is
that we're advertising uh so we'll
advertise on Spotify because we have
Elevation Worship of course um and we'll
yeah and then it's really like um we
advertise on Amazon Pastor just released
his books so again advertising for that
in different places it really just
depends on like what we're talking about
but I would say uh uh Google and Google
Facebook Instagram are probably like our
main spots easy okay let's talk about
the copy then specifically uh what I'd
love to hear like you've presumably been
a big part of overseeing or directly
writing a lot of different ad copy uh
what what are some of you know your
favorites that you've done over the
years
gosh any winners in your mind that
you're like oh you know what I really
crushed it I I I was in the lab I was in
my bag and we just this one got so many
people saved
okay
I I can't I can't recite for you
something that I feel that way about but
I will tell you the ones that I feel
most proud of uh have been
fun um yeah I think people
um and not like so one of the ways we
have even more specific ways to when I
teach Elevation Church voice I teach
there's a lot more to it and one of the
things I say is that we are fun but not
silly and I think that's like an
important distinction as well um our
culture is fun it's important to us that
people can be light-hearted um uh life
is heavy and so it doesn't always have
to be heavy we can have fun um and uh
there I remember um um there there have
been an Easter one and a Christmas one
that we've done with kids in them and
kids are easy people love kids and we
use staff kids that keeps us safe um but
yeah uh but um uh kids are endearing
it's hard not to smile at kids not to be
like oh look at that I'm going to lean
in a little more uh that doesn't feel
like so serious I don't feel like I'm
going to feel judged by that right um
it's very approachable and I think
advertising
needs to be approachable so that would
be a good example I suppose of fun but
not silly
exactly yeah I feel like if it was me
that's an important you would need to
teach that to me be okay bra fun not
silly because I feel like it would
descend a little blurry there that's
that's pretty juvenile there son I got
there pretty quickly we we have this
line that we use for because we have
some particular staff members who cross
that line and and uh and we say uh well
you don't know the line until you cross
it
and there are some of them that cross it
more than okay then this was not planned
but I got to ask this you know one of
the Elevation Church posts that came
across my feed this year and frankly
I've talked about it as a big fan of it
supportive of it um feels like it might
have crossed into the silly territory
and that was the uh SpongeBob karaoke
cover of one of the hill song worship
songs I did that one slip through there
Nikki or what
happened I need to know who posted that
one it was it I feel like it was
probably our youth account or it was yes
on the on the on the youth account
they're allowed to be silly they're
allowed to be Sly the youth account is
very they go Rogue a little bit so you
can see it in her eyes she looked to the
side she's like the youth every single
senior leader listening knows that
feeling what did the youth group do this
time they did what you and so but just
like very candidly you got to let them a
little bit um uh their their demographic
is different than the whole church it's
very zero in certainly and um and so I
don't want to post that and I don't want
our church account to post that um and I
will call them out if they spell
something wrong but other than
that other than that um uh they can have
fun with it because um teenagers need to
be able in my I have a teenager I'm a
mom um and teenagers need to be able to
find Church approachable too and so just
like a little aside there go ahead and
let your youth ministry set up their own
account keep eyes on it keep them in the
guard guard rails but like theirs can be
wider than yours you know Nikki you just
you just use the word demographic there
to give to give your youth account a
little bit more license to be maybe a
little bit more silly and that seems to
be the Common Thread that has been just
like quietly weaved throughout this
entire conversation is that in just
about everything you've said you have
revealed that the decisions that you're
making whether it's on social or the
Elevation Church voice whatever it is
are in informed by the people you're
talking to and by having a a really
acute awareness of who you're talking to
and why you're talking to to them and to
me as a pastor that's like that feels
very pastoral in nature that like you
know the people you are talking to or
that you want to talk to they are known
and you are addressing them in a way
that's appropriate for them in a way
that's attractive to them and so I just
want to ask you like in your role um I I
forget what your actual uh what your
actual job title is but in your role
like does it feel like the work that
you're doing is pastoral in nature
absolutely I
um uh it's very I feel like I feel like
I have a very pastoral role um because I
get to have
um I get to have this really zoomed out
view um of people and to try to
notice um what I'm seeing the different
demographics leaning into and needing
and that kind of a thing and
um and I I think a lot of times in
Ministry so I have been in the past uh
we were we were at a previous small
Church in Vermont a little closer to you
guys and um and I was in U more pastoral
what we would call classically pastoral
Ministry there and um and I think uh a
beautiful thing that's happened in
churches is uh that we've really like
expanded
uh what Ministry can look like and in
the different ways that God can use
different people's um gifts talents
experience um perspective to to Really F
A need that someone else maybe you have
a senior pastor who's great at
communicating from stage but he's not
good at written
communication right uh imagine someone
partnering with him um to learn to write
in the voice that he speaks in um um to
help him translate that um in other
spaces in written form like what a
beautiful Ministry um I wrote down I
actually wrote down some questions I had
a feeling you were going to ask me this
um because I feel like this would be
helpful to your listeners I have some
questions that help me decide um uh what
I'm going to say and how I'm going to
say it outstanding let's do it okay I
have it's just four questions they're
not they're not hard who am I speaking
to um that's that's where I start and so
is it a small group of people a large
group of people um are is there a
particular age demographic about them uh
do they live in a certain place um is it
very broad is it very narrow just really
try to like think about that um and then
what do I want them to hear um and this
is very different from what do I want to
say um because what I want to say and
what they might hear might be two
different things I might need to say it
in a different way than I want to say it
in order for them to hear it the the way
that I want them to hear it and so what
do I want them to hear excuse
me and then um what do I want them to do
uh so there should be some kind of call
to action right um do I want them to
come to Easter do I want them to pray
for something but I should be clear I
should be clear in who I'm speaking to
what I want them to hear and what I want
them to do and then how do I want them
to
feel um because imagine if I'm super
clear in all of that but it's like so
direct that it's offputting M right yeah
so how do I want them to feel when they
when they engage with my content okay I
have an extremely practical example of
what she just said that I did today and
the reason I'm bringing up my experience
is because yes we share a last name but
when Nikki said that she cared how AM
and PM were stylized I knew that we were
Kindred
Spirits I like okay it's not just the
last name so today we had a church
upload a sermon file late to us so for
context Nikki we prepare uh social media
content for churches that's one of the
services that we we we do so we need
sermons to be uploaded by Tuesday at
midnight and this sermon came in late
and it's really tough for us to turn it
around when it comes in late and so what
we've done is we've implemented this
hard deadline most churches get it to us
on Sunday if it doesn't come in before
uh Tuesday midnight Pacific we can't get
get it done so we had this pre-written
email to reply to this church and one of
our editors sent it to them and the
church uh did not care for this email
and they replied like hey are you
serious like this is the first time this
has happened like are we going to get a
refund like come on and my editor was
like I thought like we communicated
clearly this deadline like why are they
like getting emotional about this and I
said well I think it might be the copy
uh because what they said was and I
quote it was it was we will not prepare
this sermon for you because it is after
our deadline and I said when you
communicated as we will not
there's agency in your decision you are
the judge and jury and have said look I
could do this but I'm not going to and I
said we need to change this script to
say we are unable to complete sermons I
said because now we've removed the
agency it's not that we don't want to
we'd love to it's just that there are
very real deadlines and there's simply
not enough time in the day so we we we
we physically literally cannot and I
said if we don't change this every time
we send this email out it's going to put
the church on their back foot
immediately
because how we're making them feel is
we're very corporate we're very direct
and we're very like we will not do this
so tough luck um so hopefully that
serves as a practical example for maybe
you know in terms of I I actually think
this applies to feedback too um you can
be clear and
kind I think um a lot of times uh in an
effort to be clear um we end up being
harsh and I'm like well that's just how
it is and you know uh sorry I speak the
truth I
yeah that's it um and you don't need to
be that way especially because you have
access to AI so if say you're a person
who just is not a nice Communicator you
can put it into Ai and say make this
nicer make this more so good there's no
excuse AI discipling us to be more like
Jesus in the way we talk well it is one
of the benefits of working remotely you
don't have to talk to someone face to
face hear what they have to say before
you slack them back seek the Lord then
seek Ai and that way and and that can
teach you like oh okay so that's how
you'd say it you know and look those are
those language models have been trained
by you know hundreds of millions of
input presumably the kind people have
told the AI how to talk we're not yet
kind we're learning I love it yes please
deliver this feedback in the voice of
Fred Rogers oh yeah yeah you you love Mr
Rogers I love Mr Rogers yeah yeah in
Canada we had Mr dress up oh that's
interesting yeah yeah kind of like the
knockoff we have a lot knockoff things
where it's like you know this is what
they do and then this is what you know
you have the NFL we have the CFL the
Canadian Football League uhhuh just
lower budgets generally yeah lower
viewership that's fair that's fair uh
this has been an outstanding
conversation Nikki very grateful for
your time especially during a busy
Easter season where you're surely
overseeing many responsibilities is
there anything uh you know parting words
of wisdom that you'd like to leave for
many of the churches listening uh that
uh you know are in different situations
smaller situations but I think so many
of the things that we've talked about
are truly
Universal I just think that for every
Ministry regardless of the size if you
know what you're trying to do and who
you're trying to do it for and you can
clearly Define the way that you want to
do that you don't need a lot of people
to do that um but you can have uh one of
the phrases that we use is focus
Excellence it's really important to us
um and you can do that uh you don't need
a lot of people to do that you don't
need a lot of resources I recommend um
getting grammarly uh I recommend uh
using AI uh don't these things are not I
use them I'm a professional I have a
copyrighting team I use them um and so
uh use the tools at your disposal don't
make things hard on yourself um and uh
and I don't know let's go like win more
people for Christ there you go yeah
praise God anything uh that you wish to
plug either on your own behalf for
behalf of the church I mean if you
haven't gotten Pastor Steven's new book
do the new you you're out of your
mind I um I got to read it way ahead of
time um it's excellent it's helpful it's
practical um and I'm just excited for
everybody to get their hands on it also
the plug I'll give you is the audio book
is is read by him and it has bonus
content on it is this the first time
that he's done the audio book I don't
know it might be it's uh this is the
first book He's released in eight years
so all of his previous books uh were
were eight years or
older wow I am an audiobook listener
almost exclusively and it is always a
huge benefit when I know that I'm
listening to the author you can just
like feel the you know hours and hours
of work that they've poured into the
material and it kind of just like comes
out into the performance of the the
reading of the audiobook so that's great
to hear you can find that on Audible
find the book anywhere where books are
sold online or in person and thank you
to Nikki thanks as always to everyone
for their time attention and Trust we'll
talk to you real
soon we're watching
Trust no I don't know what that is
really did you just make something up
nope it's another reality game show it's
like does it involve trust yeah
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