Is 128GB of DDR5 IMPOSSIBLE on AM5? Level1 Investigates!

Summary

This video script explores the challenges and experiences of configuring 128 gigabytes of DDR5 memory on the AM5 platform, using G.Skill Trident Z Neo F5 6000J 32GB modules. It discusses the technical difficulties of utilizing two DIMMs per channel and dual-rank memory, the importance of precise memory insertion, and the impact on system stability and performance. The script also compares AM5's memory capabilities with Intel's Z790 platform and advises sticking to 64 gigabytes for optimal results.

Takeaways

• 😀 The AM5 platform and DDR5 memory require careful handling due to the smaller and more delicate memory slots compared to older designs.
• 🔧 AM5 motherboards have different memory slot designs, with some having mechanical reinforcements and others being more plastic-based, affecting the slot's durability.
• 🚀 Achieving 128GB of memory on the AM5 platform with low latency and high speed is challenging, especially with the Trident Z Neo F5 6000J 3040 G32 kit.
• 🛠️ DDR5 memory installation on AM5 platforms can be more resistive, requiring a firm push and manual dexterity to ensure proper seating of the DIMMs.
• 🔌 The two DIMMs per channel configuration on AM5 can create electrical and logistical issues for the integrated memory controller in the CPU.
• 📉 Using 128GB of memory on the AM5 platform may result in reduced memory bandwidth and higher latency compared to using 64GB.
• 🧩 The AM5 platform is more sensitive to mixing different memory kits, and using identical kits is recommended for better stability.
• 🔄 BIOS updates have improved memory support on AM5 platforms, but there's still room for further optimization, especially for configurations beyond DDR5 3600.
• 📊 Memory bandwidth and latency testing on AM5 showed unexpected results, with two DIMMs sometimes outperforming four DIMMs in certain scenarios.
• 💻 For users seeking the best memory performance and stability, it's currently recommended to stick with 64GB of memory instead of pushing for 128GB on AM5.
• 🔍 A comparison with Intel's DDR5 on the Z790 platform shows that Intel's memory controller offers slightly better performance and stability.

Q & A

What is the recommended memory kit for 128 gigabytes on the AM5 platform?

The recommended memory kit for 128 gigabytes on the AM5 platform is the Trident Z Neo F5-6000J-32GX2-TZ5NR from G.Skill, which consists of two 32-gigabyte sticks of DDR5 memory.

What are the differences in memory slot design between older and AM5 platforms?

Older memory slots had pins that went all the way through the printed circuit board, providing mechanical strength. AM5 slots, however, have much smaller surface mount pins, connected only to the top layer of copper, requiring more careful insertion.

How does the AM5 platform handle two DIMMs per memory channel compared to previous platforms?

The AM5 platform seems to handle two DIMMs per memory channel with more difficulty than previous platforms, creating more electrical and logistical problems for the integrated memory controller.

What is a dual-rank DIMM and how does it affect memory controller operations?

A dual-rank DIMM has two ranks of memory, such as 16 gigabytes each on a single stick for a total of 32 gigabytes. The memory controller addresses two physical sticks almost the same way as it addresses two ranks on a single stick, which can be more challenging for the controller to manage.

What is the issue with running 128 gigabytes of memory on the AM5 platform according to the script?

Running 128 gigabytes of memory on the AM5 platform can lead to lower memory bandwidth and higher latency compared to using 64 gigabytes, and it may introduce instability if not set up perfectly.

What is the recommended memory configuration for gaming and achieving the lowest latency and highest bandwidth?

For gaming and to achieve the lowest latency and highest bandwidth, it is recommended to stick with 64 gigabytes of memory rather than going for 128 gigabytes.

What is the significance of the memory bandwidth and latency figures mentioned in the script?

The memory bandwidth and latency figures are significant as they indicate the performance of the memory configuration. Higher bandwidth and lower latency are desirable for better system performance, especially in tasks that require fast memory access.

What is the role of the iGPU in the memory stability on the AM5 platform?

Disabling the iGPU on the AM5 platform seems to allow for better driving of four sticks of memory at a higher rate, suggesting that the iGPU might introduce some instability or competition for memory resources.

What BIOS features were found to be helpful during memory testing on the AM5 platform?

MSI's Memory Triad feature, ASRock and Gigabyte's CMOS clearing facilities, and Asus's BIOS presets for different non-XMP kits of memory were found to be helpful during memory testing on the AM5 platform.

How does the AM5 platform compare to Intel's DDR5 platform in terms of memory performance?

While DDR5 on Intel's Z690 and Z790 platform is slightly better in terms of memory performance, the AM5 platform still shows promise, but it has some challenges, especially when running configurations beyond DDR5 3600.

What was the outcome of the long-term testing with 64 gigabytes and 128 gigabytes of DDR5 memory on the AM5 platform?

The long-term testing showed that both 64 gigabytes and 128 gigabytes of DDR5 memory were stable at 3600 on the AM5 platform, with 64 gigabytes being rock solid stable.

Outlines

00:00

😲 Challenges of 128GB DDR5 Memory on AM5 Platform

The script discusses the difficulties of implementing 128GB of DDR5 memory on the AM5 platform, specifically with the Trident Z Neo F5 6000J 3040 G32 GX2-TZ5NR G.Skill memory kit. It highlights the technical challenges of the AM5 memory controller handling two DIMMs per channel and the intricacies of inserting DDR5 memory into the new slots, which lack the mechanical strength of older designs. The narrator shares personal experiences and insights on the process, emphasizing the need for careful handling and the potential for instability when pushing the memory beyond its limits.

05:02

🤔 Memory Stability and Performance on AM5 vs. Intel Platforms

This paragraph delves into the memory stability and performance testing on the AM5 platform, comparing it with Intel's offerings. The narrator mentions various memory kits from brands like Corsair, Team Group, and Kingston, and discusses the limitations of running DDR5 6000 on AM5 motherboards. It points out that while all tested motherboards could handle 128GB of memory, achieving DDR5 6000 speeds was not consistent across the board. The script also touches on the differences in memory performance between AM5 and Intel's Z790 platform, noting that Intel's platform shows slightly better memory bandwidth and latency, especially at higher speeds.

10:02

🛠️ Practical Advice for DDR5 Memory Configurations

The script provides practical advice for configuring DDR5 memory, especially for those looking to maximize performance with 64GB or 128GB setups. It suggests that for gaming and applications requiring the lowest latency and highest bandwidth, sticking with 64GB of memory is recommended due to the instability and reduced performance observed with 128GB configurations on the AM5 platform. The narrator also discusses the importance of using the same memory kit for both DIMM slots to ensure stability and the utility of features like MSI's Memory Triad for testing different configurations.

15:02

🔬 Long-Term Stability Testing and Conclusions

In the final paragraph, the narrator shares the results of long-term stability testing for both 64GB and 128GB DDR5 memory configurations on the AM5 platform. It concludes that while 64GB configurations were stable at DDR5 6000 speeds, 128GB configurations were only stable at the default DDR5 3600 speeds. The script ends with an invitation for further discussion and exploration of memory options on the AM5 platform in the Level One forums, acknowledging that while 128GB of memory is achievable, it may not be the best choice for those seeking optimal performance and stability.

Keywords

💡DDR5 Memory

DDR5 Memory refers to the fifth generation of Double Data Rate (DDR) random-access memory, which is a type of volatile memory used in computers. It is characterized by higher data transfer rates and improved power efficiency compared to its predecessors. In the video, DDR5 memory is the central topic, with the script discussing its performance and challenges on the AM5 platform, as well as the testing of different DDR5 memory kits.

💡AM5 Platform

The AM5 Platform is a motherboard platform from AMD that supports the latest processors and DDR5 memory. It is mentioned in the script as the testing ground for various DDR5 memory configurations, highlighting the challenges of achieving high memory bandwidth and low latency with 128 gigabytes of DDR5 memory on this platform.

💡Memory Controller

A Memory Controller is a component within a CPU that manages the flow of data between the CPU and the system's memory. In the script, the memory controller's role in handling multiple DIMMs (dual in-line memory modules) and ranks is discussed, particularly in the context of the AM5 platform's performance with DDR5 memory.

💡DIMM Slots

DIMM Slots, or Dual In-line Memory Module slots, are the physical connectors on a motherboard where memory modules are inserted. The script describes how the design of these slots has changed with DDR5, affecting their mechanical strength and the process of inserting memory modules.

💡Ranks

In the context of memory modules, 'ranks' refer to separate memory banks on a single module that can be accessed independently by the memory controller. The script discusses dual-rank DIMMs, which have two ranks of memory on a single stick, and how they impact the memory controller's performance on the AM5 platform.

💡Memory Bandwidth

Memory Bandwidth is the maximum rate at which data can be transferred between the CPU and memory. The script explores the challenges of achieving high memory bandwidth with 128 gigabytes of DDR5 memory on the AM5 platform, noting the unexpected reduction in bandwidth when using four DIMMs compared to two.

💡Memory Latency

Memory Latency is the time it takes for the CPU to access data in the memory. The script discusses the goal of achieving low memory latency with DDR5 memory, and the difficulties encountered when testing different memory configurations on the AM5 platform.

💡XMP (Extreme Memory Profile)

XMP is a feature that allows users to automatically overclock their memory to pre-set profiles for improved performance. The script mentions XMP-ready memory kits and how they were used in testing DDR5 memory on the AM5 platform.

💡IGP (Integrated Graphics Processor)

The IGP, or Integrated Graphics Processor, is a graphics processing unit integrated into the CPU. The script discusses the impact of the IGP on memory stability and performance, noting that disabling it seemed to improve the stability of 128 gigabytes of DDR5 memory on the AM5 platform.

💡CMOS Clearing

CMOS Clearing is the process of resetting a motherboard's BIOS settings to their default state. The script mentions the ease of clearing the CMOS on certain motherboards as a helpful feature when testing and troubleshooting different memory configurations.

💡Memory Stability

Memory Stability refers to the reliable operation of memory without errors or crashes. The script discusses the challenges of achieving stability when running 128 gigabytes of DDR5 memory on the AM5 platform, suggesting that it may introduce instability for work-related tasks.

Highlights

The AM5 platform and DDR5 memory require careful handling due to the smaller and surface-mount pins of the DIMM slots, which lack the mechanical strength of previous designs.

ASRock provides mechanical supports for DIMM slots, while the Aorus side has different construction possibly affecting memory slot stability.

DDR5 memory slots are more resistive, requiring a firm push and manual dexterity to insert memory modules without damaging the slot.

Using two DIMMs per channel on AM5 presents electrical and logistical challenges for the integrated memory controller, especially with dual-rank DIMMs.

Achieving DDR5 6000 with low latency on AM5 is challenging, with the tested G.Skill Trident Z Neo F5-6000J 32GB kit being a good option.

The AM5 platform is sensitive to mixing different memory kits, with the recommendation to use identical kits for the best results.

MSI, ASRock, Asus, and Gigabyte motherboards from AM5 show similar capabilities in running 64GB to 128GB of memory, but DDR5 6000 is not consistently achievable.

BIOS updates have improved memory performance on AM5 but are not yet optimal for DDR5 6000 with four DIMMs.

Memory bandwidth and latency on AM5 with 128GB of DDR5 6000 are not as expected, with bandwidth dropping to 50GB/s and latency increasing.

Disabling the iGPU on AM5 may improve memory stability and performance with 128GB of DDR5 memory.

MSI's Memory Try-it feature, ASRock and Gigabyte's CMOS clearing, and Asus's BIOS presets are valuable for testing and configuring memory.

DDR5 on Intel's Z690 and Z790 platforms shows better performance and stability compared to AM5, even at DDR5 7000.

Long-term testing of 64GB DDR5 6000 on a 7950X CPU showed rock-solid stability, while 128GB at 3600 also proved stable.

The AM5 platform's memory performance raises questions about CPU limitations and the need for further investigation into memory compatibility.

For work and productivity use, 64GB of DDR5 memory is recommended over 128GB for better stability and performance on AM5.

The AM5 platform's memory controller may require optimization to handle the increased demands of 128GB DDR5 memory configurations.

Intel's 13900K CPU demonstrates superior memory bandwidth and latency compared to AM5, even with DDR4 configurations.

Transcripts

so you want to rock 128 gigabytes of

memory

in your new am5 platform well I've got

the best kit of memory to do that well

I've got the best kit of memory to do

that if you want to rock 64 gigabytes

928 gigabytes that is the Trident Z Neo

F5 6000j 3040 g32

gx2-tz5nr G skill we we got to really

work on these names like RGB ddr5

Neo V2 V3 something but these are two 32

gig sticks of memory it is the most

impossible task to ask the am5 memory

controller or at least in the 7950x or

the 7900x 128 gigs is a challenge on

this platform if you want to run the

memory really fast with low latency

let's talk about my experiences

[Music]

okay first up easy stuff out of the way

am5 even if you're an experienced

computer Builder am5 and ddr5 pretty

much necessitates that the dim slots are

a little bit different you see in the

olden days the memory slots had pins

that would solder all the way through

the printed circuit board and because

you had metal going through this you

know laminated copper and you know

pretty circuit board material it was

pretty mechanically strong that's not

the case anymore the pins are much much

smaller in their surface mount which

means that they're connected only to the

very top layer of copper there's really

not as much mechanical strength holding

the Dems in now ASRock for theirs I've

got some mechanical supports that go all

the way through the printed circuit

board you know at the bottom and top of

the slot as well as the Middle where the

divider is things are a little different

on the aorus side of things there's

holes for that there but I can't really

fill the pins go all the way through so

maybe things are a little different in

terms of how they're put together or

maybe it's a different brand of slot you

know this one is a is you know it's all

plastic there's not even any metal

reinforcement here so maybe that's the

difference and they were they were

trying to decide which one goes where so

you got to be careful when you're

inserting the memory

the thing is that it's a little more

resistive

meaning that when you put the dim in it

wants to fight you a little bit more and

as you're putting it in rocking it back

and forth if you don't have good manual

dexterity will be really hard on the

slot and could fatigue the plastic so

when you insert it you know in the olden

days you would push down and it might

click into place

but I found with modern ddr5 you have to

give it you have to sort of push down on

it and help it click into place if you

have a lot of experience building

computers can kind of Poison the Well a

little bit because you're used to when

you push the memory in the little tabs

snap into place automatically with a lot

of the motherboards that I've put memory

into that hasn't been the case it feels

a little different and it will click but

it doesn't click all the way into place

you see having two dimms per memory

channel two dpcs what that's called

creates a lot of electrical and

logistical problems for the integrated

memory controller the memory controller

in the CPU has a lot more to juggle

keeping up with two dimms on the same

set of wires that's what it means two

dimms per Channel a lot of those wires

are shared between those two slots and

so when the memory controller gives a

set of commands to one dim it can switch

to the other dim and ask it to do

something and then switch back to the

first stem and see if that operation has

completed or the memory timings will let

it estimate when that will be completed

and then it's able to connect to the

memory and actually transfer things over

to bus and blah blah blah the reality

though is that it seems like two dimms

per channel is a little bit more of a

challenge on am5 than it has been

historically not only that but there's

also this idea of ranks so this is a

dual rank dim meaning that there's two

ranks of 16 gigabytes of memory on the

single stick for a total of 32 gigabytes

and the way that the memory controller

addresses two physical sticks is pretty

much the same almost exactly the same as

the way the memory controller addresses

two ranks on a single stick of memory so

even though this is two dims per Channel

we have four ranks per channel that

we're dealing with and that's why on the

am5 platform it's a little sketchy I'm

telling you that because if you don't

have your memory inserted perfectly

absolutely perfectly it's not going to

work at all or your computer is going to

be stuck dealing with Shenanigans for a

long time so if you have problems try

reseeding your memory now in addition to

this G skill kit that I have

I've ordered a ton of other memory kits

Corsair Dominator Platinum 5200

gigabytes pretty good stuff when you're

going to rock 64 gigabytes and oh 5200

is too slow yeah if you're just gonna

rock two dims you could get away with 6

000 but 5200 is not bad team group and

get the t-force Delta RGB this is

running it at 6 000 of course I also

have several Trident Z kits that are not

Expo these are XMP ready

and also Kingston Fury and a couple

other kits a data is mixed in here so

there's a lot of different options am5

is currently because it's a new platform

I think uh even more temperamental about

mixing kits of memory even two different

uh g-skill Trident Z kits of memory I

definitely would not recommend that for

this video I'm getting 128 gigabytes

working I'm using two of the exact same

kit so it's the best possible scenario

their Expo kits best possible scenario

ddr5 6000 with not super insane timings

you know 30 40 96 1.4 volts

uh it's up the upper end of voltage for

ddr5 but okay we'll get it done it's

fine I've also got pretty good

representation of motherboards from MSI

ASRock Asus and gigabyte the good news

is from all of the testing that all of

these motherboards had pretty much the

same capabilities in terms of running

100 128 gigabytes of memory the bad news

is that you're not going to be running

ddr5 6000 in pretty much any scenario

with any of these boards even with a

perfectly matched kit of ddr5 memory

it's just not there yet this kit of

memory has been available at retail for

a little while now

I'm sort of hoping to bios updates would

improve what I had initially experienced

and it's gotten better don't get me

wrong but it's still not super amazing

the other bit of good news is that with

all of these motherboards just plugging

in the memory and turning it on the

system will post you will get to bios it

may be a little unsettling because it

does take north of 10 minutes for some

of these boards most of them I'd say the

average is about five but it does work

the bad news is that when it posts it's

running a ddr5 3600 now remember amd's

official supported memory table

starts and then backs off when you've

got two dimms per Channel and dual rank

it's the worst case scenario and things

improve you know when we're talking

about ryzen 5000 running four sticks of

memory on your ryzen 5000 platform was a

heck of a lot better than the 2000

series than the 1000 series from AMD the

1000 series really I think everybody can

agree was a little sketchy when it first

launched in terms of memory support you

really had to dial it in and get it just

right I think am5 is a little better

than that but it's still really new and

so if you're gonna run 128 gigabytes of

memory you're probably not going to get

the most memory bandwidth or the best

memory latency now this is a little

surprising because even on the am4

platform in the ryzen 2000 generation

you could at least get better memory

throughput because you have more dims to

keep busy the memory controller would do

a little bit better job keeping the

memory kits busy well with the two

of our ddr5 6000 kits running of course

a ddr5 6000 because it'll it'll run

that's actually pretty good dual rank on

two dim 64 gigabytes that's a lot more

stress on the controller the memory

controller than 32 gigabytes

ddr56000 worked fine on all of these

boards it worked well and we were

getting you know 70-ish gigabytes per

second in Ada 64 with a reasonable

memory latency when I switched to four

dimms and we you know we're running the

out of the box defaults with that the

memory latency was closer to 93

nanoseconds but our memory bandwidth was

only about 50 gigabytes per second

that's really odd and I did do some

tuning and experimentation and in one

not perfectly stable configuration I was

getting 91 gigabytes per second which is

the best score that I've ever seen on

any am5 platform it was also a little

bit of a wrinkle juggling the eye GPU so

you could actually detect visual

artifacting from the igpu when things

were not exactly perfectly stable now I

used Ada 64 MIM test86 to do memory

testing Ada 64 is pretty good if you're

in Windows and you want something to

test in Windows but if you have a lot of

instability Windows is going to itself

and then you're going to be reinstalling

Windows so maybe not the best way to

test system stability whereas you can

boot from a USB stick and run mem test

86 that is a great way to test and catch

instability as well the bottom line for

me though with our one 7950x test CPU

that we tested all of these in is that

if I disable the igpu I seem to be able

to drive four sticks of memory at a

higher rate a little bit better that

kind of makes sense and it kinda doesn't

now because I'm talking about 128

gigabytes on a 16 core platform I think

you're using that more for work than

play

so if we're in a situation where it's a

little bit more unstable with the igpu

and perhaps a little bit less unstable

without the igpu then I kind of don't

want to run it even with the igpu

disabled like I'm not saying that's a

concession I'm saying that there's

something weird going on with the

platform that probably needs to be

investigated or don't expect to really

be able to run things Beyond ddr5 3600

so what if you do want to push the

envelope and actually run faster than

ddr5 3600 because you know you'll boot

up with ddr5 4800 with just you know two

sticks of memory and then you can set

ddr5 6000 and everything's basically

pretty good right

ah it varied so 3 800 to 4200 was

possible with all of these boards but

again I don't know about the stability

like I wouldn't really recommend it

necessarily because if you're building a

system with 128 gigabytes of memory

stability if you want something for

gaming and you want the lowest possible

latency and the highest bandwidth and

everything else then I really really

recommend you stick with 64 gigabytes of

memory for now don't go for 128

gigabytes theoretically we may see ddr5

dimms that are 64 gigabytes each and

then this story may change but for now I

don't really recommend four dimms for

128 gigabytes can you infer that that

means that four dimms of 64 gigabytes is

also pretty bad

I would say technically no but as a

practical matter yes as a practical

matter yes because AMD literally tells

us that in their specifications for dims

or two dims per channel it's going to

run slower but also this is you know

pretty significant reduction in uh

available bandwidth I mean 50 gigabytes

per second with four dims versus 70

gigabytes per second with two dimms

that's really weird and I think merits

further investigation for memory

experimentation I do have to give a

shout out to MSI msi's memory Triad

feature was invaluable for this testing

it is by far the easiest thing to you

know try a different memory

configurations and see which one works

and see which one doesn't

um ASRock and gigabyte have a great

facility for clearing your CMOS at least

with these boards that works that works

pretty good Asus also has a feature in

their bios that lets you load presets

for different non-expo kits of memory

that's really nice that doesn't exactly

solve the problem that we have here but

that feature is pretty awesome

especially if you're going to run a

non-expo kit because it says here is how

we can deal with 2x 16 gigabytes of

hinix here's how we can deal with 2x 16

gigabytes of Samsung the problem is that

none of the presets deal with 4X 32

gigabytes of dimms 2x 32 gigabytes sure

4X 16 gigabytes sure

not Forex 32 gigabytes this is maybe a

little disappointing overall because

ddr5 on the z690 and z790 platform from

Intel is a little better now the

performance difference on am5 between

one dim and two dimms per Channel left

me scratching my head a little bit I I

thought this was better with ddr4 on you

know the am4 platform or even better on

the Intel platform so I decided to take

a look at z790 and our ASRock taichi

Carrera and also the MSI z7id Godlike

which have improved memory compatibility

now for ddr5 7000 the 13900k memory

controller can clear 106 gigabytes per

second in our Ada 64 memory Benchmark

and beat the am5 memory latency not so

surprised that it beats the memory

latency but I'm surprised the memory

bandwidth is so much higher but this is

two 32 gig dims so this is still single

dim per Channel when I went up to two

dimms per Channel it was pretty much the

same story as am5 intel was not really

significantly better just a little

better but not dramatically better I

don't get too far off track because a

lot of people on our Forum were curious

about the homogeneous 16 core platform

and so this is really a deeper dive on

the am5 side of things but I would be

remiss without taking a look at the

Intel side of things and also try this

on Intel for the four dimms of ddr4 also

128 gigabytes because I have a ddr4 3600

kit from oloy I've covered in the past I

remembered it being faster than it was

but it's still slower than a four dim

ddr5 configuration so there are benefits

for ddr5 so AMD has been accurate with

their specifications it's just that I've

noticed that some people in our forum

and everywhere else are gung-ho to get

128 gigabytes of memory working and you

can you totally can but if you want the

highest memory bandwidth and the lowest

possible latency doing that with 128

gigabytes of memory is enough of a

challenge and stability nightmare that I

don't know if I recommend that if you're

going to use your machine for getting

things done and work I think it's going

to introduce a little instability now

long-term testing where long term is

about four days of continuous operation

and memory stress testing 64 gigabytes

ddr5 6000 7950x Rock Solid stable

Kudos that's amazing 128 gigabytes also

stable at 3600. I'm wonderful this is

level one this has been a look at 128

gigabytes on the am5 platform it

certainly left me with some questions

that maybe are worth investigating join

me in the Forum if you want to explore

this because hey I know there's

customers out there that want 128

gigabytes of memory let's figure out

what your options are but like I say

good news is that the boards I don't

think are the limitation for am5 because

all of these could do 64 gigabytes of

ddr5 6000 as well as 128 gigabytes at

the post default but you know going

Beyond four thousand ah it gets a little

sketchy I think there's still more on

the CPU than the board but there was a

little bit of variation

I'm one of those level one I'm signing

out you can find me in the level one

forums

[Music]