HFS' Phil Fersht and Coforge's Sudhir Singh in a digi-side chat at the HFS Digital Symposium 2021

Summary

In this insightful interview, Sudhir Singh, CEO of Coforge, discusses his journey to leadership, emphasizing the importance of impact and execution over strategy. He shares how Coforge navigated the pandemic, pivoting quickly to grow in areas like travel tech and healthcare, and the company's strategic rebranding during the crisis. Singh also touches on the increased demand for digital talent and the future of work, highlighting the central role of technology and the importance of diversity and ESG in post-pandemic business strategies.

Takeaways

• 😀 Sudhir Singh, CEO of Coforge, has successfully rebranded the company and navigated through the pandemic with strategic leadership.
• 📈 Coforge managed to grow during the pandemic, with a 6% increase in revenue, despite a significant portion of their business being in the hard-hit travel industry.
• 💼 Singh emphasizes the importance of understanding business deeply and executing strategy effectively, rather than just having a high-level view.
• 👥 The CEO role involves significant people management, including hiring, culture creation, and team building, which are crucial for the company's success.
• ⏰ Time management is a critical skill for a CEO, as there are many demands on their time from various stakeholders.
• 🎨 As a CEO, Singh finds satisfaction in the creative aspects of the role, such as building teams and cultures, and impacting people's lives through recognition and rewards.
• 🔄 Coforge pivoted quickly during the pandemic, focusing on other verticals like manufacturing and healthcare to diversify their business and mitigate risks.
• 🌐 The company has seen an accelerated demand for digital talent and is adapting its onshore and offshore delivery mix to meet market needs.
• 🌐 Singh discusses the establishment of on-site operating centers and the acceleration of their training engine to deploy more fresh graduates into the market.
• 🌟 The pandemic has highlighted the central role of technology in business, making it a non-discretionary spend and a key driver for business growth and risk mitigation.
• 🌐 There is a convergence of mindsets among leaders globally, with a focus on the importance of IT, risk mitigation, and the role of technology as a business enabler.

Q & A

What is the main advantage of digital summits mentioned in the script?

The main advantage of digital summits mentioned is that everything can get done on time, unlike physical events where rounding up attendees from breaks can cause delays.

Who is Sudhir Singh and what is his role?

Sudhir Singh is the CEO and Executive Director at Coforge. He has a background in IT services and has successfully rebranded the firm.

What was Sudhir Singh's career path before becoming CEO?

Sudhir Singh started his career with Unilever in India, which was known as Levers at the time. He then worked his way up through the ranks in IT services, including a stint at Infosys, before becoming CEO at Coforge.

What advice does Sudhir Singh give to those aspiring to leadership roles?

Sudhir advises aspiring leaders to deeply understand their business, prioritize execution over strategy, always think of the customer, and recognize that there is no one style of leadership that guarantees success. He also emphasizes the importance of impact and performance.

What surprised Sudhir Singh about the demands of being a CEO?

Sudhir was surprised by how seriously people took him after his promotion, the increased observation of his every word and action, and the realization that there is no absolute control as a CEO, but rather accountability to various stakeholders.

How did Coforge perform during the pandemic, especially considering its significant revenue from the travel industry?

Coforge performed well during the pandemic, with its other six businesses growing by 18.4%. The travel business also rebounded quickly, and the company as a whole, including the travel segment, grew by 6% through the year.

What strategic changes did Coforge make in response to the pandemic?

Coforge pivoted quickly to focus on other verticals such as manufacturing and healthcare. They also emphasized logistics, travel tech, and travel platforms within the travel industry, and made significant investments in security, contactless payments, intelligent airport solutions, and cloud technology.

How did Coforge approach rebranding during the pandemic?

Coforge chose the name Coforge to represent working together to create lasting value. The rebranding was done internally with a digital-only push, which resonated well with the audience during the pandemic.

What is Sudhir Singh's view on the future of work post-pandemic?

Sudhir sees a dual track approach where there is an accelerated demand for digital talent and a need to move work closer on-site for certain business-critical aspects, while also consolidating and moving more work offshore.

What are the key learnings from the pandemic according to Sudhir Singh?

The key learnings include the centrality of technology as a business driver and risk mitigator, the importance of diversity and ESG imperatives, and the non-discretionary nature of IT spend. Sudhir also notes that mindsets have shifted towards a more global perspective, making it difficult to differentiate between leaders based on their geographical location.

How does Sudhir Singh describe the impact of technology during the pandemic?

Sudhir describes technology as having held the world together during the pandemic, emphasizing its role as a revenue enabler and a central part of business operations.

Outlines

00:00

🤝 Leadership Journey and IoT Impact

In this segment, the host introduces Sudhir Singh, CEO and Executive Director at Co-forge, emphasizing his rise through the ranks and successful rebranding of the firm. Sudhir reflects on his career, starting with Unilever in India, which was considered a 'CEO factory'. He discusses the importance of delivering impact at various points in one's career and acknowledges the role of luck in achieving a CEO position. Sudhir also shares his philosophy on leadership, emphasizing execution over strategy and the importance of understanding the business deeply. He advises aspiring leaders to know their business intimately, execute effectively, and prioritize customer-centric thinking.

05:01

🚀 Navigating the CEO Role and Pandemic Challenges

Sudhir Singh shares his experiences and surprises of being a CEO, including the heightened scrutiny that comes with the role and the need for circumspection in communication. He discusses the critical role of people management, hiring, and culture creation, and admits the myth of having absolute control as a CEO. He also talks about the importance of time management and the collaborative nature of the role. The conversation shifts to Co-forge's performance during the pandemic, highlighting the company's ability to pivot quickly, especially given the significant revenue from the travel industry. Sudhir explains how the company's other businesses grew by 18.4%, and the overall firm, including the travel business, grew by 6%.

10:01

🌐 Co-forge's Strategic Shifts Amidst Pandemic

The discussion continues with Sudhir outlining Co-forge's strategic responses to the pandemic. He mentions the rapid growth in the travel tech spend and the company's expansion into other verticals such as manufacturing and healthcare. Sudhir highlights the company's strong exit from the pandemic with a growth expectation of at least 17% and a performance basis target of $820 million. He also touches on the company's focus on logistics, travel tech, and platforms, and the significant spend on security, contactless payments, intelligent airports, and cloud technologies.

15:02

🎨 Co-forge's Rebranding and Market Adaptation

Sudhir describes the rebranding of Co-forge during the pandemic, explaining the choice of the name and the rationale behind it. He talks about the company's decision to conduct the entire rebranding exercise internally and the digital-only marketing push. Sudhir reflects on the timing of the rebranding, suggesting that the pandemic provided an opportunity for a new brand to be noticed. He also discusses the company's approach to localization and setting up on-site operating centers, as well as the acceleration of their offshore training engine.

20:02

🌟 Post-Pandemic Insights and Future Outlook

In the final segment, Sudhir shares his insights on the post-pandemic world, emphasizing the central role of technology as a business driver and differentiator. He notes the disappearance of the discretionary versus non-discretionary IT spend conversation and the universal understanding of technology stacks across various C-suite roles. Sudhir also discusses the importance of diversity and ESG imperatives in the new work models and the industry's approach to talent acquisition. He concludes by highlighting the similarities in mindsets between US and India-based leaders and the universal recognition of IT's centrality in business.

Keywords

💡Digital Summits

Digital Summits refer to virtual conferences or meetings that are conducted online rather than in person. They allow for seamless scheduling and participation without the need for physical attendance. In the video, the host highlights the advantage of digital summits in terms of punctuality and the ability to manage time efficiently, contrasting it with the challenges of gathering attendees in physical events.

💡CEO

CEO stands for Chief Executive Officer, the highest-ranking executive in a company who makes major corporate decisions, manages operations, and represents the company to the public and board of directors. Sudhir Singh, the interviewee, discusses his journey to becoming the CEO of Coforge and the impact he aims to make in this leadership role.

💡Rebranding

Rebranding is the process of changing the existing brand identity of a company to something new. This may involve changing the company's logo, name, or image. In the script, Singh talks about the rebranding of his company from NIIT Technologies to Coforge, which signifies working together to create lasting value.

💡Pivot

To pivot in a business context means to change direction or strategy in response to changing circumstances. The company Coforge had to pivot quickly during the pandemic, especially given the impact on the travel industry, which was a significant part of their business. They managed to grow other sectors and adapt to the situation.

💡Travel Tech

Travel Tech refers to technology that is used in the travel industry, such as software for booking flights or managing hotel reservations. Despite the pandemic's devastating impact on travel, there was a resurgence in travel tech spending, as mentioned by Singh, indicating a shift towards contactless and secure travel solutions.

💡BPM

BPM stands for Business Process Management, which involves making a business more efficient by analyzing and improving its processes. Coforge closed a significant BPM acquisition, SLK Global, during the pandemic, which was a strategic move to manage exposure to the travel industry and continue growth.

💡Hybrid Economy

A hybrid economy refers to a mix of different economic models, often used to describe a blend of online and offline business operations. The discussion in the video touches on the transition to a hybrid economy and how Coforge is recalibrating its onshore and offshore operations to adapt to this new reality.

💡Onshore and Offshore

Onshore refers to business operations conducted within the same country, while offshore refers to operations conducted in a different country, often used to reduce costs. The script discusses Coforge's strategy of setting up on-site operating centers (onshore) and accelerating the training of freshers for offshore operations.

💡ESG

ESG stands for Environmental, Social, and Governance, which are factors used to measure a company's impact on society and the environment, as well as its governance practices. Singh mentions the importance of ESG imperatives in the post-pandemic world, indicating a growing focus on sustainable and responsible business practices.

💡Work from Anywhere

Work from anywhere is a model where employees can work remotely from any location, not restricted by geographical boundaries. Singh discusses how this model can help address diversity and ESG imperatives by allowing a broader talent pool to be accessed, reflecting a shift in mindset post-pandemic.

Highlights

Advantage of digital summits in managing time efficiently compared to physical events.

Introduction of Sudhir Singh, CEO and Executive Director at Co-forge, and his journey through the IT industry.

Sudhir's recollection of his career start at Unilever India and the impact of being part of a 'CEO factory'.

Importance of delivering impact at multiple points in one's career, not just at the executive level.

The role of luck in achieving a CEO position and the need for a 'lucky break'.

Sudhir's advice on the significance of understanding business deeply and the importance of execution over strategy.

Emphasis on walking the talk, prioritizing customer focus, and the long-term value of performance over personal branding.

Diversity in leadership styles and the importance of orienting towards delivering results.

Surprises in the CEO role, including the seriousness with which colleagues take the CEO's words and actions.

The critical role of people management, hiring, and culture creation in the effectiveness of a CEO.

Challenges of time management for a CEO and the importance of allocating time wisely.

Debate over the myth of absolute control as a CEO and the reality of accountability to various stakeholders.

Satisfaction derived from creative freedom, culture creation, talent onboarding, and impacting people's lives in the CEO role.

Co-forge's successful pivot during the pandemic, especially given their significant revenue from the travel industry.

Growth of Co-forge's non-travel businesses during the pandemic and the strategy behind their resilience.

Revival of the travel tech spend and Co-forge's growth in the travel vertical post-lockdown.

Co-forge's expansion into new verticals like manufacturing and healthcare during the pandemic.

Expectations for the current year with a predicted growth rate and the strategy behind it.

Co-forge's approach to localization with the establishment of on-site operating centers during the pandemic.

The dual track approach of Co-forge in balancing on-site and offshore operations amidst changing business dynamics.

Sudhir's perspective on the enduring impact of the pandemic on mindsets, emphasizing the centrality of technology in business.

Observations on the universality of tech expertise among leaders post-pandemic and the disappearance of discretionary vs. non-discretionary IT spend conversations.

Sudhir's views on the integration of diversity and ESG imperatives with work from anywhere models.

Final thoughts on the convergence of leadership approaches and learnings from the pandemic across geographies.

Transcripts

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

so

[Music]

wonderful well welcome back after lunch

or

late afternoon tea um thank you very

much and still that we had

an increase of attendees over the lunch

break so

physically all the little booths and

things so

these uh one advantage of these digital

summits is you can get everything done

on time

it's not like when everyone's together

physically and you have to round

everyone up from coffee and stuff

so joining me now is a gentleman i've

got to know quite well and uh

it feels like just yesterday i was

having lunch with him but it was

actually over a year ago now

is sudhir singh who's the ceo executive

director

at co-forge um so

sudhir let's hear a bit more about you

you've you've kind of come through the

ranks

into cersei and gent before getting the

chance to steer the ship within iot

and you've actually successfully

rebranded the firm as well

um so were you always looking for like a

ceo job is this what you've always

wanted to do and

maybe uh what advice would you take to

others who are looking to

take on a greater leadership role in

this world

thanks for the question phil and uh

congratulations and having organized a

fantastic event out here all right

it's been a great event so far so

congratulations on that to you and to

your team

and thanks for the question uh at the

outset uh so before i

was at uh gen packed hannah infosys i

started my career with the unilever in

india

it used to be called levers and it was

it wasn't part of the it services

spectrum

lee was interestingly in the 90s which

is when i

joined them was uh the equivalent of the

ge

in in the states it was regarded within

the indian corporate sector as the ceo

factory for corporate india

so i guess somewhere in the back of my

mind was the fact that one

did want to aspire to be a chief exec at

a given point in time

but having said that uh more importantly

i think the best training that

they gave me at levers was that

the impact that one delivers as an exec

and you're right i've come up through

the ranks

can be and it should be delivered at

multiple points

right through a carrier graph what they

also instilled

uh having seen a bunch of folks walk out

of that

academy of sorts was the fact that

capability

and commitment alone do not necessarily

get you to being a chief exec

luck as an outsized role to play in it

so

one needs to look for a lucky break but

more importantly one needs to always

look for roles

one can create an impact apply himself

or herself and as far as i was concerned

what i was really aspiring to do

for the for in the early part of my

career was really trying to

figure out a way of getting to a place

where i could own a piano

to my mind that was that was a place

where one would could drive very

tangible very perceptible very distinct

uh impact to a business

so that's that's uh that's how i would

uh that's how i would put it

uh uh phil in terms of uh

what i would uh i would suggest i'm not

uh

i'm not known for giving big speeches or

giving way too much advice but i would

just

read out a few things that i have picked

up over time i think

somebody who is aspiring to go up and

it's not the designation it's just the

roles

over time a he or she should

know the business or at least whichever

facet of the business that they are

involved with

intensely intimately one has to operate

in the trenches there is this

there is uh this whole quasi industry

around just providing

50 000 feet views but to my mind

execution

is always and has always been more

important than strategy so a

a person in any industry not just our

industry

whatever piece of work that they touch

they need to know how to

execute whatever strategy gets laid out

second thing that i could i could throw

out there is uh

one needs to walk the talk in terms of

making sure that you're always thinking

of the customer and you're selling

externally not necessarily

internally within the organization it's

not your personal brand that counts

just because of the selling you know

internally within the organization

in the long term in the long run it is

always

numbers and performance and the data

around performance that starts talking

you can go by for some amount of time

talking the talk but finally give it two

years three years four years the track

record around numbers is what speaks

the third thing uh which was something

very interesting that i picked up from a

gentleman called candy anand who went on

to be the coca-cola south america here

at one point in time was

he always used to say that please don't

and this was early in my career he

always used to say that there is no one

style that a successful

more than successful and effective

leader or an effective exec or an

effective team player has

there are multiple styles all that

counts is

how do you get it how do you orient it

towards delivering results delivering

impact so that's the third thing that i

would

that i would throughout that um

at uh at a very high level yeah so what

surprised you cydia about the demands of

the role both good and bad

what surprised me i suspect the thing

that surprised me right at the outset a

lot was

how seriously folks who you've actually

been working with for many years just

start taking you

just because a designation or a role

gets stacked to your name

and the intensity with which everything

that you say

or do is observed and hence the need to

be a little more

circumspect around avoiding off the cuff

records

remarks because they do tend to get

played out

the second thing that's uh that's that's

been very instructive over the last four

years that i've been around here

has been uh how the in some ways

almost the most important role of the

chief exec is

people management people hiring culture

creation

one can talk a lot about strategy i do

talk a lot about execution but at the

end of the day

it is the team that you managed to build

and the team that those leaders in terms

will

that makes a big impact the third

learning

struggle with this a little bit phil has

been the importance of time management

in this role

uh there is and there are a lot of folks

who very understandably would need time

and it becomes imperative over time to

start

bracketing rationing allocating spending

time correctly

and the final thing that i i think has

been a big revelation to me is how this

entire concept of

i'm going to become a chief exec and i'm

going to have absolute control is an

android myth

there is no absolute control i you still

work

you work at the pleasure of the board

you work for investors you are

accountable to your clients you continue

to be accountable to your team members

and your

and your employees so and i think that

was the fourth thing that i found very

very uh

interesting uh besides that things that

have been

good uh i think it's been the fact that

as a chief exec

and i'm not an artist you almost feel

like uh

you are an artist the ability to be

creative

to create cultures teams with more

latitude with more degrees of freedom

is is i find extremely satisfying about

the role

the culture that can be created the

talent that can be onboarded

and i think the final piece is the

ability to recognize

the ability to reward and hence the

ability to impact people's lives

obviously it's amplified in a role like

this

and that again is uh something that's

has been very satisfying

in the role so here thank you for

sharing that

i think when we when we spoke about last

may time june time uh i think you had a

little headache

uh how has how has co-forged

fed in the pandemic i know one of your

key verticals is travel for example

that must have hit you guys pretty hard

so how have you

written this out and how do you plan to

to exit this uh this world as

we go into a hybrid economy we were

surprisingly and thankfully extremely

well fell

and i know in may when we spoke last or

this was still the early days of the

pandemic it was quarter one for us

in many ways our performance has been a

classic case study in terms of how to

pivot fast

and pivot right and get things done so

last year

a pandemic infused here we walked into

with almost a third of our revenue

coming in from the travel industry

within that a significant chunk coming

in from airlines and airports and yet

at the end of the year other than travel

the other six businesses

grew through the pandemic at 18.4

percent

the whole firm including the business

which was about a third of

of of our aggregate revenues grew six

percent

through the year so it's been a very

satisfying year more than that

uh the second third and fourth quarter

the quarter after i spoke with you the

travel business actually has taken off

so if you look at

if you look at travel tech travel spend

on the technology side it took a hit in

quarter one

the industry obviously is possibly going

to take a few more quarters to revive

but the travel

tech spend has come back and has come

back very very fast if you look at

just the travel vertical of coforge i

believe in the last three quarters we've

had a

quarter in which we grew 10 sequentially

another one in which we grew seven and a

half percent sequentially so

where we are from the current vantage

for the current year i've already called

out that this year

f522 for us we expect travel to be the

fastest growing vertical

for the organization and to lead growth

so that's one facet of how we handle it

the second thing that the pandemic

almost forced us to do was to recognize

that we need to start

getting into other verticals with speed

we've always talked about it but it's

you really need that you need an

external push you need something that's

almost an existential crisis to push you

along that dimension so

we went into manufacturing and

healthcare now if you look at us today

can manufacturing now is 10 of our

global revenues

travel is 19 retail and health care is

seven percent so those businesses got

built up

and that's what resulted in a very

strong exit ram for us

last year into the current year this

year

uh i've called out uh to in in general

after the last call that we expect to

grow

at least 17 as an organization

and on a performa basis and you you know

us for a very long time phil

on a performance basis that landers at

least at an 820 million dollars

which i think is a pretty big number

compared to the 400 million i spoke to

you four years back so

that's uh that's how that's how that's

how we've been able to tackle the

travel issue getting out into other

verticals even within

travel we focused on logistics we

focused on

travel tech we focused on travel

platforms

and there's a boatload of very

interesting work that's being done there

travel in general if i look at the three

material engagements that have come our

way over the last two quarters

there is significant spend that's

getting directed to security

to contactless payments contactless just

the intelligent airport

contactless travel through an airport

and to cloud as well so

our interesting times started off being

a very challenging time

left us with a very very strong growth

ramp and very definite growth for last

year

uh and it also had us start thinking

about inorganic

aspects to our growth so last year last

quarter is your aware field we

closed uh a very large bpm

acquisition which was slk global we're

now into month three of that acquisition

and that was again a prod that we got

because of the

uh the pandemic coming in the big

exposure to travel the need to manage

that exposure

and yet to continue the growth that's

that's how i would characterize it

right that's very well very well

articulated and how you

actually ended up growing in industry in

distress because there's

reinvesting and technology is key

to a lot of these areas so you did a

rebrand

from a very traditional brand in niiit

technologies

and you chose our name co-forge and you

did this during a pandemic

not many firms of service providers in

particular have

braved or rebranded but how challenging

has this been

and um and what was the passion behind

the name and stuff

so so in retrospect we did some of the

most exciting things that we've done

over the last decade through the

pandemic

and rebranding you're absolutely right

was one of them uh we

chose coforge and i remember we talked

about it in may as well because

to us that name connotes working

together

to create lasting value forge tends to

have this

old world connotation so we were a

little wary around getting into it but

for us the core

and the force that that that getting

together represented creating lasting

value working with our employees

and we've always talked about having the

lowest employee attrition in the

industry

working with our clients working with

our partners

including partners like hfs who've been

part of the journey

and working with the entities that have

over time over the last five

ten years become part of co forged their

style and iit technologies

we spent quite some time phil you're

absolutely right and i remember speaking

with you in mumbai february last year

running through names

deliberating on whether a pandemic was

the right time

within which to rebrand ourselves as an

organization

we just thought it was we just thought

it was

instinctively a good time because

everyone was locked up

everyone was cooped up everyone was very

intensely gazing out to see what was

happening all around them

and it was a good time for us to come

out with something new because

it got noticed we decided that we do the

entire marketing rebranding exercise

uh internally so the entire digital

marketing piece

the brand creation the brand book the

logo creation

color palette everything got done

internally through the pandemic

we went to the market with a digital

only push

and that's that's resonated well for us

so

it was it was intense experience and i'm

sure you

you you can relate to that but i think

the timing worked for us in respect

yeah i think i was skeptical for a few

days but i i think it's a great brand

it's impactful it asks questions and

says a lot

so well done um so um

you were very uh articulate with

explaining how you'd

uh reject your vertical plays how you

continue growing

despite a third of your in your business

being impacted by a very disruptive

vertical

um so as we limp back to this hybrid

reality

uh how are you going to sort of uh

recalibrate your onshore on-site

offshore mix are you

are you looking at uh innovative ways of

of uh changing up changing up the

delivery mix

yeah so phil oh there's there's mean and

i suspect you hear this from everyone

there's a boatload of demand out there

for digital talent that's there and

seems to be playing out somewhat

differently along two different axis

some parts of the business particularly

our bpm business there's been an

accelerated demand to

move the smes or to create fail-safe

mechanisms and move work closer on site

there's a clear demand that's played out

the other piece has been the more

classical outsourcing if i can call it

that

where the ask is more centered around

consolidation

and moving more aggressively offshore so

we're seeing both of these dynamics play

out

in real time right now if i look at just

our operating metrics

our outs number of the headcount that we

have

outside uh europe and north america

that's actually gone up six percent over

the last five quarters so the

consolidation

moving things offshore is running

concurrently with

in certain aspects of the business

getting smes getting business critical

work back

on site right we have as a consequence

approached uh

this with under a dual track right what

we've done on site is

uh we are not just localizing we are

setting up

on-site operating centers and for a

firmer size

with with a lot of speed and with a lot

of skill so if i look at north america

we have four operating centers that are

now

in operation and half of them have come

up

through the pandemic we've got a center

in boise idaho we've got a center in

augusta georgia

we've got a nursing center in las vegas

nevada and we've got a center in toronto

canada

we've done the same thing in europe

we've we opened a center over the last

15

months in krakow we amped up our center

in madrid

uh spain we amped up our centers in

germany

and of course we run our insurance

product business from london

the operating team sits there so

localization

not just localization a localization

with a very strong bias to creating

shared services centers in the classical

term

on-site is something that we are doing

offshore

and again as i said that's the other

stream that's playing out

we have very significantly accelerated

the entire

training engine mirroring what some of

the larger firms have done for many

years so the number of folks who we are

picking up from college

training and deploying into the market

has gone up by a multiple of six over

the last two years

there's six times more freshers this

year

that we're going to get from college

compared to what we would have two years

back

wow it's very very impressive just

to really the the shift on the ground so

very quickly

as a final question um uh learnings from

a leader

on 80 from 18 months of pandemic do you

think mindsets will be markedly

different

as we emerge or do you see a snapback to

be

pre-2020 do you see a different mindset

emerging

across u.s and india leaders for example

based on the experiences we've

had so i under i had a tooth extracted

earlier this morning and i went to the

dentist phil and the first thing she

asked me was what do you do and i said

i'm part of the 18 industry and she said

hey listen you guys are the ones who

held the whole world together over the

last

five quarters the one learning and this

isn't just about leaders and what people

are talking about

is just about the centrality by about

the non-discretionary nature of it

spend if i can call it that right the

centrality of technology as

not just a revenue enhancer if i were to

transpose that

that that observation into the

enterprise id space

the centrality of the technology spin in

uh the non-discretionary nature of the

iit spencer the one thing that we've

noticed is uh this year

and i think it was true last year as

well coming into the year

that entire conversation around istic

discretionary versus non-discretionary

is all gone

what we encounter these days is across

organizations it's very difficult to

talk to differentiate

between the ceo the cmo the cio the cdo

the cro they're all tech experts

they are they understand the enterprise

i.t stack extremely well they have very

clear

very cogent point of view so coming out

of the pandemic the one thing that's

very very clear is that the centrality

of technology as a business driver as a

business differentiator as a business

risk mitigator is

just out there and i suspect that is not

going to go

the other thing that's interesting if i

look back at the last four of five

quarters is

it isn't just the fact that technology

and the role that tech played in

holding things together that came up the

other piece that we've all heard about

is the entire conversation around

diversity

around esg imperatives uh

in in where we've landed post pandemic

or should land post pandemic

with the whole work from anywhere

equivalent models that are being talked

about

i think that's a that's a fantastic way

of actually addressing some of the esg

and the diversity imperatives that's a

fantastic way of

going and approaching a broader talent

catch and the industry has in the past

and and i see at some point in time

that's going to get

intimated with each other uh

finally i i don't really see much of a

difference bill between the india and

the us-based uh

leaders in terms of how they how they

are approaching this uh

approaching the learnings it's very

difficult these days for me to actually

pick out leaders and say this is an

india based leader this is a us-based

leader or a europe-based leader

so i suspect almost everyone has taken

those uh

learnings out centrality of i.t i.t as a

risk mitigator

technology as a revenue enabler et

cetera that's that's how i would uh i

would

i would posit it to you phil awesome

it's just been a great story hearing

about a midsize company like yourselves

and how you've actually pivoted to

grow the company and innovate during a

very tough period

especially when a third of your industry

your business was tied to travel

so tesla here uh i would agree with you

i think technology has kept the wheels

on

and i think science saved our story

behind

so uh let's be thankful to our

scientists as well as our technologists

uh studio sing uh ceo ko for it's been

an absolute pleasure hearing from you

the last

25 minutes and um i'm sure everyone has

enjoyed it very much as well great to

hear from you again and

and hopefully see you in new york in a

few weeks time absolutely phil always

good to speak with you

thank you thank you

you