Exclusive: Madhav Gadgil on Wayanad Disaster and Illegal Quarrying | Kerala Landslides

Summary

Professor Madhav Gadgil, a leading ecologist, discusses the environmental crisis in Kerala's Western Ghats, highlighting it as a man-made disaster exacerbated by illegal rock quarrying and human interventions. He emphasizes the role of political parties in perpetuating these practices for profit, criticizing the lack of government action despite his 2011 report identifying ecologically sensitive areas. Gadgil calls for immediate cessation of activities in high-risk zones and criticizes the ongoing development projects that increase landslide vulnerability. His insights underscore the urgent need for political will and environmental responsibility to prevent further disasters.

Takeaways

• 🌳 Professor Madhav G. K. Pillay, a leading ecologist, discusses the ecological disaster in the Western Ghats, attributing it to human activities and suggesting it could have been avoided with better management.
• 💧 The increase in aerosol load due to activities like rock quarrying in the Western Ghats is contributing to more intense rainfall, which can lead to natural disasters like landslides.
• 🈲️ Pillay's report from 2011 recommended declaring 75% of the Western Ghats as ecologically sensitive and stopping quarrying in highly sensitive areas, but this has been largely ignored.
• 🏞️ The Western Ghats should be divided into zones of varying ecological sensitivity to better manage human activities and protect the environment.
• 👷‍♂️ Human interventions, such as tourism development and quarrying, are exacerbating the geological instability of the region and are not necessarily providing livelihoods for local people.
• 🏠 The people most affected by these disasters are often laborers living in poor conditions, highlighting a social issue alongside the environmental one.
• 🤝 The ecologist suggests that there is a need for a change in attitude from various stakeholders, including the church and government, towards recognizing and protecting the environment.
• 🚫 Pillay alleges that political parties are involved in the illegal quarrying business, which is causing environmental damage and contributing to disasters.
• 📜 Despite the ecologist's report and recommendations, there has been a lack of action from governments and politicians, who seem to prioritize economic interests over ecological preservation.
• 🛣️ The Kerala government is proposing further interventions in sensitive areas, such as a new highway, which could increase the risk of landslides and other environmental impacts.
• 🗣️ The ecologist has not been able to communicate his concerns effectively with top political leaders, indicating a disconnect between scientific advice and political action.

Q & A

Who is Professor Madhav Gagil and what is his expertise?

Professor Madhav Gagil is a leading ecologist in the country, known for his pathbreaking report on the ecologically sensitive Western Ghats and his views on the environmental disasters in the region.

What does Professor Gagil describe as 'Nature's Revenge'?

Professor Gagil refers to the heavy rains and flooding in Kerala as 'Nature's Revenge,' attributing the intensity of the rainfall partly to the increasing aerosol load caused by human activities, such as rock quarries.

What is the impact of aerosol load on rainfall according to Professor Gagil?

The aerosol load, increased by activities like rock quarrying, leads to intense rainfall in short bursts instead of a more moderate and spread-out downpour over several hours.

What was the recommendation of Professor Gagil's report on the Western Ghats in 2011?

The report recommended declaring nearly 75% of the Western Ghats as ecologically sensitive areas and stopping quarrying and other harmful activities in these regions.

How does Professor Gagil suggest dividing the Western Ghats for conservation purposes?

He suggests dividing the Western Ghats into three zones based on ecological sensitivity: highly sensitive, moderately sensitive, and low sensitivity, with stricter regulations in the highly sensitive zones.

What is the role of human interventions in the landslides and environmental issues in the Western Ghats?

Human interventions, such as illegal quarrying and construction activities, have increased the burden on the geological structure and contributed to the landslides and environmental degradation.

Why does Professor Gagil believe that the interventions in the Western Ghats are not for the betterment of the local population's livelihoods?

He argues that the interventions are for the benefit of the wealthy, with the local laborers living in poor conditions and working for meager wages, which he equates to a form of modern-day slavery.

What is the stance of the political parties in Kerala regarding the illegal quarrying, according to Professor Gagil?

Professor Gagil alleges that political parties in Kerala are involved in the illegal quarrying business, with different parties owning and profiting from these operations.

How has the response from the government and politicians been to Professor Gagil's report and recommendations?

The response has been largely dismissive, with politicians avoiding contact with Professor Gagil and not implementing the recommendations of his report.

What is the proposed solution by Professor Gagil to minimize the environmental disasters in the Western Ghats?

He suggests accepting the ecological sensitivity of certain areas and stopping all further human interventions, especially in the highly sensitive zones, to protect the environment and prevent further disasters.

Has Professor Gagil raised these environmental issues with top leaders like Rahul Gandhi, the Kerala Chief Minister, or the Prime Minister of India?

He has not specifically mentioned raising these issues with these leaders, but he has noted a change in politicians' attitudes towards him since his report was submitted.

Outlines

00:00

🌿 Ecological Disaster in Western Ghats

Professor Madav Ggill, a leading ecologist, discusses the man-made ecological disaster in the Western Ghats, particularly in Kerala, exacerbated by illegal rock quarries. He attributes the increased intensity of rainfall to the aerosol load caused by these activities. The professor emphasizes the need to differentiate ecological zones based on sensitivity to better manage and protect the environment.

05:01

🏭 Impact of Human Interventions and Political Involvement

The conversation delves into the impact of human interventions, such as tourism and construction projects, on the ecological balance in the Western Ghats. Professor Ggill criticizes the exploitation of laborers and the prioritization of profits over environmental concerns. He alleges that political parties are involved in the illegal rock quarrying business, distributing these operations amongst themselves for profit.

10:03

🛑 Call for Action to Protect Ecologically Sensitive Areas

Professor Ggill offers a solution to the ongoing ecological crisis by advocating for the acceptance of certain areas as ecologically highly sensitive and calls for a halt to further human interventions in these zones. He criticizes the Kerala government's proposal for further development in these areas and expresses disappointment with the lack of response from political leaders to his expert panel's report on the Western Ghats.

Keywords

💡Ecologist

An ecologist is a scientist who studies the relationships between organisms and their environments, including the distribution and abundance of different species. In the video, Professor Madav G. Kill is referred to as a leading ecologist, indicating his expertise in ecological matters. His perspective is crucial in understanding the environmental impact of human activities in the Western Ghats.

💡Man-made disaster

A man-made disaster refers to a catastrophic event that is caused or significantly exacerbated by human actions. In the script, Professor Kill describes the ecological crisis in the Western Ghats as a man-made disaster, suggesting that human activities, such as illegal quarrying, have led to environmental degradation and subsequent disasters.

💡Western Ghats

The Western Ghats is a mountain range in the western part of India, known for its rich biodiversity and ecological significance. The script discusses the ecological sensitivity of this region, highlighting the importance of protecting it from human-induced environmental damage.

💡Quarrying

Quarrying is the process of extracting rocks, minerals, or other materials from the earth. In the video, it is mentioned that illegal quarrying in the Western Ghats is a significant contributor to environmental degradation, leading to increased risk of landslides and other ecological disasters.

💡Aerosol load

Aerosol load refers to the concentration of airborne solid or liquid particles in the atmosphere. The script mentions that the increasing aerosol load, partly due to dust from rock quarries, affects rainfall patterns, leading to intense rain in short periods, which can exacerbate flooding and landslides.

💡Landslide

A landslide is a geological event where a mass of rock, earth, or debris moves down a slope. The script discusses the landslides in the Western Ghats, particularly in the area of Ward, as a result of human interventions and environmental stress.

💡Ecologically sensitive

An area is considered ecologically sensitive if it has unique or fragile ecosystems that are vulnerable to damage from human activities. The script emphasizes the need to protect ecologically sensitive areas in the Western Ghats from further human interventions, such as quarrying.

💡Livelihood

Livelihood refers to the means of earning a living or making a living. In the script, there is a debate about the balance between protecting the environment and providing for the livelihoods of local people. However, Professor Kill argues that the current interventions are not benefiting the local population but are instead serving the interests of the wealthy.

💡Political patronage

Political patronage refers to the support or protection given by politicians to certain individuals or activities, often in exchange for favors or loyalty. The script alleges that political parties are involved in illegal quarrying activities in the Western Ghats, suggesting a conflict of interest between environmental protection and political gain.

💡Environmental intervention

Environmental intervention refers to actions taken to alter or manage the environment, which can include both positive measures like conservation and negative ones like exploitation. The script discusses how certain interventions, such as building tourist resorts and illegal quarrying, are increasing the environmental stress on the Western Ghats.

💡Human rights

Human rights are the basic rights and freedoms to which all individuals are entitled, including the right to life, liberty, and security of person. The script mentions a panel on human rights in Kerala, indicating a growing recognition that environmental degradation can infringe upon these rights, particularly for vulnerable populations.

Highlights

Professor Madav G. Gil, a leading ecologist, discusses the ecological disaster in the Western Ghats and its man-made causes.

Increasing aerosol load due to rock quarries contributes to intense rainfall and flooding in Kerala.

The Western Ghats should be divided into three ecological sensitivity zones to manage human interventions effectively.

Illegal quarrying is a significant environmental threat, linked to political patronage and profit-making.

Human interventions, such as tourist resorts and lake constructions, exacerbate the geological burden on the Western Ghats.

The ecological disaster disproportionately affects the poor, who are forced into hazardous living conditions for low wages.

Political parties have been accused of distributing illegal rock quarries amongst themselves for profit.

The church in Kerala is changing its attitude towards environmental issues, recognizing the harm caused by human interventions.

Governments have systematically diluted ecological protection recommendations over the years.

The Kerala government is proposing further interventions in ecologically sensitive areas, risking more landslides.

Professor Gil has been sidelined by politicians post his 2011 report, with no engagement or consideration of his findings.

The interview highlights the urgent need for the protection of ecologically sensitive areas in the Western Ghats.

The Western Ghats' ecological sensitivity demands a halt to further human interventions, especially in high-risk areas.

The ecological disaster in Ward is a result of a combination of natural and man-made factors, including illegal activities.

There is a need for a concrete solution to minimize the recurring landslides and ecological damage in the Western Ghats.

Professor Gil emphasizes the importance of recognizing and addressing the reality on the ground for sustainable environmental management.

Transcripts

let's hear from the expert because I'm

joined by someone who is arguably one of

the country's leading ecologists he's

someone who's been talking about the

dangers of what's happening in the

western GS and has been calling vard a

man-made disaster Professor madav ggill

who made a pathbreaking report on the

ecologically sensitive Western guards

appreciate you joining me you've

described Professor ggill what has

happened in wonard already as a man-made

disaster do you really believe that this

was a disaster that could have been

avoided given the kind of heavy rains

and flooding that's taken place in this

part of Kerala what Kerala has gone

through to the last few days is it

really avoidable at the end of the day

this is Nature's

Revenge uh yes now as far as the rain is

concerned uh even that in part is

because of increasing aerosol load in

our at osphere M it is now well known

scientifically that India is the aerosol

capital of the world and rock quaries

are particularly responsible for dust

Rock verifi Dust which increases this

aerosol load and as the aerosol load

increases what happens is that the ra

instead of

falling in DZ over say 4 hours comes

down very suddenly as intense rain in

bursts of half an hour 1 hour so even

the intensity of the rainfall could have

been moderated had we not been going in

for all this quaring of rocks all over

the Western GS may I uh May apart from

that of course yes to an extent Kerala

has always been experiencing heavy

Professor I since you mentioned that

word quaring which you say is one of the

biggest dangers to the Western guards

it's been illegal quaring Across the

Western guards your report had said in

2011 that you wanted to declare nearly

75% of the western guards as

ecologically sensitive including this

part of Kerala and Ward where the

tragedy took place would you agree that

it's very difficult to actually

Implement such a report there is a

battle between people who have to earn

their livelihoods and the environment

are you telling me that this entire belt

has to be freed of quaring of Tourism

because that's something that the

government both in Kerala and the center

seem reluctant to do is your report

feasible no no no this is a complete

misinterpretation see uh actually as per

the Mandate given to us this whole area

is ecologically sensitive

what we had said that this is not

practical and this should not be

attempted in

a broad breast fashion that therefore

the Western Gat areas should be divided

into three zones one is ecologically

highly sensitive then of middle

sensitivity and thirdly of low

sensitivity and we have asked for

particular L stopping of quaring and

Bing also in only the highly sensitive

areas not everywhere so that is a

misinterpretation now yes the area where

today this has happened and the putala

landslide which happened few years ago

in the similar area are uh areas with

higher slopes and very heavy rainfall

always and they are therefore very prone

to landslides anyway now there have been

increasing human interventions it is a

complete mistake to think that these are

to

increase the ability of people to e

livelihoods not at all the interventions

have been for example that the T around

the T State there are lots of tourist

res s where they are building lakes and

so on which are

further increasing the burden on the

uh geological structure none of nobody

is really making any uh question

about that these results which are meant

for the opulent and the rich section of

the society are creating much employment

of of course they are doing the thing of

the sort the people who have died which

you will actually see these are Tate

laborers if I have been there I have

personally seen

these what happens they are forced to

live in miserable HS in rides all the

good land is used

for the enjoyment of the tea Planters

and their friends they are forced these

people are forced to live with rides and

dealt with very

poor wages and conditions essentially AK

to slavery and it is them who have got

washed this time also all the bodies are

of these laborers in these Hearts close

to the rides so don't talk about

livelihoods being consed not at all it

is the money made by the rich that is

the concern of the governments but but

you know the point remains Professor

ggill that 11 years or 13 years after

your report every government has

systematically diluted your

recommendations and no one wants to

implement it no one wants to it appears

at least uh be disrupting what you are

calling for even the church in Kerala

has been reluctant to notify these areas

as ecologically sensitive so this battle

between environment or and livelihood or

environment and politics is this a

battle that really can be won can the

church Civil Society politicians realize

the damage that is being done because

there are in the end I maintain human

habitation out there can you drive out

people see I do not know quite about all

the church issues

and how it was the church this the

report that's another story uh but

increasingly today

actually very recently the Arch

Bishop one of the senior Arch Bishops I

don't know there are maybe more than one

in Kerala he invited me to

be a joint conv of a panel on human

rights in Kerala and he thinks that this

negative interventions in the

environment are very much against human

interest so the church is also changing

their

attitude and as far as the governments

are concerned it is very clear I have

checked also I have spent a lot of time

in Kerala in the field uh they have told

me

that the different political parties

have distributed these illegal mostly

illegal Rock quaries amongst themselves

this is owned by Kerala Congress that is

owned by a CPM politician that is owned

by BJP politician and so on so Professor

it is their interest that these Rock

quaries make enormous profits professor

Gale you are making may I stop you you

are making a very serious allegation you

are claiming that the entire Rock Waring

going on in areas like wonard is linked

to political parties whether CPM

Congress even the BJP that land is being

parceled out between these Pol

politicians I have heard similar stories

in my home state of Goa how land deals

are done again in violation of

environmental rules are you telling me

quaring in Kerala is being done at the

behest and patronage of political part

parties including the ruling

CPM absolutely I certainly will stand by

that statement that is the truth I am a

Scientist I have no political

affiliations and I only stand by reality

what is true on the ground and that is

the position on the ground this is very

clear about go Minds also and it is not

just me you might have seen there was a

Justice Shaha Commission on illegal

mining in Goa and they have said

that illegalities in mining has led to

the m owners making some 35,000 CR or

some such obscene amount of illegal

money uh so you can read the Shah

commission report and kind of

allegations as you say I making they are

made by a

uh professor professor Gil you know we

we referred for a moment to Goa I want

to come back to Kerala and I want a

solution from you what is the solution

that you as the country's top ecologist

have to offer given that we've accepted

these are Landslide areas given give me

a concrete solution which you believe is

workable to try try and minimize what we

are seeing year after year

now well one has to begin with accepting

that certain areas are ecologically

highly sensitive as I said not that

whole of Kerala is to be treated like

that uh in our report also we have said

that there are areas in Kerala where you

may have permission to qu and so on

provided that there is a proper consent

from the local gr panchayats but these

areas like this Y3 part where the recent

disasters have happened or the putala

disaster happened they are the ones in

which all further human interventions

should be stopped yes and the Kerala

government is in fact proposing further

interventions in this area for instance

In This Very area a tel to link

to now that Tel would involve lot of

creation of rock Rubble blasting that

will further send shock waves and make

the fragile Hills already which are

fragile further spr to landslides Kerala

government wants to actively promote

such activities and yes I I will stand

by whatever you call my allegations

these are facts you know I I just want

to know have you raised these issues

that you're raising with me today about

illegalities taking place on the ground

with a Rahul Gandhi he's the member of

parliament of Ward have you raised it

with the Kerala chief minister pendra VI

have you raised it with Narendra Modi

the prime minister of India have any of

these top leaders responded to your

report in any manner or have you raised

it with them

no no I I will tell you what it was very

interesting the way the

politicians changed their attitude

towards me as soon as the our report

Western G ecolog expert panel report was

submitted in

2011 after that all

politicians decided that bad Gill you

should keep completely aside you should

never have any contact with him you know

there is this famous line in kerala's

one of Shakespearean play y Casas he

thinks too much such men are dangerous

so they decided mad gadiri thinks too

much such men are dangerous so no there

is no question of my contacting

or asking any politic anything they

don't want to have anything to do with

me I'm going to leave it Professor you

know am it's all the noise that

politicians create it's always good to

have an expert who tries to cut through

that noise and tells us the truth you've

told us today that you believe that

there is illegal quaring going on that

the politicians know it they have a

stake in it and I just wonder whether

any of them will wake up to what you've

told us and at least Implement parts of

your report that really demand that the

ecologically sensitive wonderful Western

guards be protected at all costs and we

don't see the kind of terrible disasters

we've seen in vard at the moment I

appreciate Professor ggill for you for

for you to come and share your wisdom

with me here on the show thank you so

much