137. When Words Aren’t Enough: How to Excel at Nonverbal Communication | Think Fast, Talk Smart:...
Summary
TLDRIn this episode of 'Think Fast, Talk Smart' podcast, Matt Abrahams interviews Dana Carney, an expert in nonverbal communication from Berkeley's Haas School of Business. They delve into the nuances of nonverbal cues, discussing how they convey power, status, and bias. Carney emphasizes the importance of eye contact and body language in expressing confidence and authority. The conversation highlights the role of culture and context in interpreting nonverbals and offers practical advice on becoming more aware and fluent in nonverbal communication, including the value of recording oneself to gain self-awareness and improve.
Takeaways
- 🎙️ The podcast 'Think Fast, Talk Smart' is nominated for a Webby Award and requests listeners to vote for them at fastersmarter.io/webby.
- 📚 Matt Abrahams, who teaches Strategic Communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business, hosts the podcast and emphasizes the importance of nonverbal communication.
- 🧑🏫 Dana Carney, the George Quist chair in business ethics at Berkeley's Haas School of Business, is the guest speaker and discusses her research on nonverbal behaviors that communicate biases, preferences, power, and status.
- 🤝 Nonverbal communication is divided into perception and expression, with visual, verbal, and vocal components, and Dana adds the importance of facial and body language as separate channels.
- 👀 Eye contact is highlighted as a powerful nonverbal tool to convey power, intelligence, and warmth, and is controllable and beneficial for effective communication.
- 📏 'Expansion' is another key nonverbal behavior discussed, which includes taking up physical space, speaking slowly, and expanding one's presence in various ways.
- 🌐 Cultural and contextual differences in nonverbal communication are acknowledged, with an emphasis on understanding and adapting to these nuances for effective interaction.
- 🔑 The importance of having clear communication goals is stressed, as it influences the choice of nonverbal cues to convey the intended message.
- 💡 Nonverbal cues can sometimes be more revealing than verbal communication, especially in situations where people may not be fully aware of their biases or are incentivized to hide their true feelings.
- 🔄 The process of improving nonverbal communication involves repetition, reflection, and feedback, including self-recording and self-analysis to become more aware of one's nonverbal presence.
- 🤔 Coherence across different communication channels (face, body, voice, words) is a key indicator of credibility and confidence, and inconsistency may signal internal conflict or deception.
Q & A
What is the significance of the Webby Award nomination mentioned in the script?
-The Webby Award is a prestigious recognition in the internet industry. Being nominated for this award signifies that the podcast episode featuring Kim Scott of Radical Candor has been acknowledged for its excellence and is considered among the top content in its category.
What are the three Vs of nonverbal communication as mentioned by Matt Abrahams?
-The three Vs of nonverbal communication are Visual, Verbal, and Vocal. Visual refers to what we see, Verbal includes the words, fillers, and spaces in speech, and Vocal pertains to the manner in which words are spoken.
How does Dana Carney define nonverbal communication in terms of perception and expression?
-Dana Carney defines nonverbal communication by emphasizing two main aspects: perception, which involves the nonverbal behaviors we need to pay attention to in order to understand others or situations, and expression, which concerns the behaviors we use to convey certain attributes or messages.
What does Dana Carney suggest as two nonverbal behaviors that people can control to convey power?
-Dana Carney suggests eye contact and expansion as two nonverbal behaviors that people can control to convey power. Eye contact helps in taking up space with one's gaze, while expansion can be achieved through physical space, the duration of speech, or the volume of one's voice.
How does Dana Carney describe the role of culture and context in nonverbal communication?
-Dana Carney explains that culture and context play significant roles in nonverbal communication. While some nonverbal cues like eye contact are fairly consistent across cultures, the interpretation of these cues can vary. For example, the appropriateness of eye contact can differ based on whether one is speaking or being spoken to.
What are the five nonverbal rules of power as discussed by Dana Carney?
-The five nonverbal rules of power, as outlined by Dana Carney, are areas of nonverbal behavior that, when remembered and applied, can help individuals tap into a sense of power. The specific rules are not detailed in the transcript, but two examples provided are eye contact and expansion.
How does Dana Carney view the importance of verbal content versus nonverbal behavior in communication?
-Dana Carney believes that both verbal content and nonverbal behavior are extremely important in communication. She suggests that nonverbal cues can sometimes be more meaningful than verbal ones, particularly in situations where people may not be aware of their biases or are incentivized not to reveal their true thoughts or feelings.
What is the role of context in nonverbal communication according to the script?
-Context plays a crucial role in nonverbal communication as it can change the interpretation of both verbal and nonverbal cues. The same words can have different meanings in different environments, and understanding the context is key to navigating nonverbal communication effectively.
How does Dana Carney suggest assessing the effectiveness of one's nonverbal communication?
-Dana Carney suggests assessing nonverbal communication by recording oneself, setting clear goals for the interaction beforehand, and then reviewing the recording to see if the intended messages were sent effectively. Additionally, seeking feedback from others can provide insight into how one's nonverbals are perceived.
What are some ways to practice and improve nonverbal communication skills as suggested by Dana Carney?
-Dana Carney recommends practicing nonverbal behaviors that align with one's goals for an interaction, reflecting on whether those behaviors were effective in achieving the intended outcome, and seeking feedback from others to understand how one's nonverbal cues are perceived.
What does Dana Carney consider as the first three ingredients for successful communication?
-Dana Carney identifies three key ingredients for successful communication: having a clear goal for the interaction, knowing the nonverbal behaviors that best convey one's intended message, and practicing these behaviors until they become natural and unconscious.
Outlines
🎙️ Webby Award Nomination and Introduction to Nonverbal Communication
Matt Abrahams introduces the podcast episode, requesting listeners to vote for their Webby Award nomination. He then delves into the importance of nonverbal communication, highlighting its impact on perception and interaction. Matt discusses the three Vs of communication: visual, verbal, and vocal, and is joined by Dana Carney, an expert in nonverbal behavior, to explore how nonverbal cues convey biases, preferences, power, and status.
👁️ The Power of Eye Contact and Nonverbal Expression
Dana Carney explains the concept of nonverbal communication through the lens of perception and expression, emphasizing the control we have over certain nonverbal cues. She discusses the significance of eye contact and physical expansion as means to convey power and presence. The conversation also touches on cultural nuances and the importance of context in interpreting nonverbal signals.
🌐 Cultural Context in Nonverbal Communication
The discussion continues with the impact of culture and context on nonverbal communication. Dana explains that while some nonverbal cues like eye contact are universally understood, others can vary significantly across cultures. The conversation underscores the need for awareness and sensitivity to cultural differences when interpreting and using nonverbal cues.
🗣️ The Interplay of Verbal and Nonverbal Communication
Matt and Dana explore the relative importance of verbal content versus nonverbal behavior, acknowledging that both are crucial for effective communication. They discuss how nonverbal cues can sometimes reveal underlying biases or feelings that are not consciously expressed verbally, particularly in situations involving deception or strategic interactions.
🔍 Becoming Fluent in Nonverbal Communication
The episode focuses on strategies for improving nonverbal communication skills. Dana suggests self-recording and goal-setting as methods to increase self-awareness and refine nonverbal expression. The conversation highlights the importance of practice, reflection, and feedback in mastering the nonverbal aspects of communication.
🏆 Key Ingredients for Successful Communication
In the final part of the conversation, Dana identifies clarity of goal, knowledge of effective nonverbal behaviors, and practice as the key ingredients for successful communication. She emphasizes the importance of authenticity and aligning nonverbal cues with intended messages to achieve communication objectives.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Webby Award
💡Strategic Communication
💡Nonverbal Communication
💡Perception
💡Expression
💡Power and Status
💡Eye Contact
💡Expansion
💡Cultural Context
💡Coherence Across Channels
Highlights
Matt Abrahams and Dana Carney discuss the importance of nonverbal communication in conveying power and status.
Dana Carney introduces the concept of nonverbal communication as a Venn diagram with perception and expression sides.
The three Vs of nonverbal communication are expanded to include visual cues like facial expressions and body language.
Eye contact is highlighted as a powerful tool for demonstrating power, intelligence, and warmth.
Expansion, both physically and vocally, is identified as a method to take up space and convey confidence.
Cultural differences in nonverbal cues, such as eye contact, are discussed in terms of context and appropriateness.
Immediate cues like proximity and body orientation are explained as indicators of intimacy and engagement.
The importance of matching nonverbal cues with verbal content to convey sincerity and authenticity is emphasized.
Dana Carney's book on nonverbal behavior is anticipated to provide further insights at the end of the year.
The role of context in interpreting nonverbal communication is explored, illustrating the complexity of the subject.
Strategies for becoming more aware of one's nonverbal communication through self-recording and reflection are suggested.
The significance of feedback in improving nonverbal communication skills is underscored.
Dana recommends practicing nonverbal cues that align with one's natural tendencies for authenticity.
Coherence across different communication channels is identified as a key indicator of credibility.
Winston Churchill is cited as an example of an effective communicator who leveraged his speech impediment.
The three ingredients for successful communication are identified as having a clear goal, knowing effective nonverbal behaviors, and practicing them.
Transcripts
Hi, Matt, here.
I have a favor to ask, we were just
nominated for a prestigious
Webby Award for our episode with
Kim Scott of Radical Candor.
Can you please vote for
us @fastersmarter.io/webby?
It should only take a minute or
two and would be really helpful.
Thanks for voting, for
us at fastersmarter.io/webby.
And thanks for your continued
support of Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.
I'm old enough to remember watching
television in black and white.
In the day we got our first color
TV, my mind was blown.
The same thing is true.
When you go from just focusing on
verbal messages to thinking about
nonverbal communication.
My name is Matt Abrahams and
I teach Strategic Communication at
Stanford Graduate School of
Business.
Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart,
the Podcast.
Today I am really Excited to
talk with Dana Carney.
Dana is the George Quist chair in
business ethics at
Berkeley's Haas School of Business.
This year, she's on sabbatical from
Berkeley and
is spending time with us here in
the management group at the GSB.
Her research focuses on
the nonverbal ways in which
we communicate our biases,
our preferences, our power and
our status.
Her forthcoming book
on nonverbal behavior is
expected at the end of the year.
Welcome, Dana.
I am really looking forward to our
conversation.
Thanks for being here.
>> Matt, thank you so much for
having me.
I was so excited when
you reached out.
>> Should we get started?
>> Absolutely.
>> Dana, I'm so excited for this
conversation because I have long
been fascinated by your research
and nonverbal communication.
When I teach
nonverbal communication,
I reference the three V's,
visual, verbal, and vocal.
Visual is what we see.
Verbal is the words and fillers and
spaces that we have.
And then vocal is how we
say those words.
I'm curious, do you see nonverbal
communication the same way and
how do you explain it when you
talk about it?
>> Almost the same way?
First, there's two big circles if
like a Venn diagram overlapping
circles, right?
One is the perception side.
What are the nonverbal behaviors
that we need to pay attention to
when we're trying to make sense
of or understand other people or
situations.
Then there's the expression side,
which is what are the behaviors
that we can use as tools to express
or land a particular attribute.
So I would layer those on top of
your three Vs.
And then I would add,
when you said visual,
I would split that into face and
body as separate channels.
>> So nonverbals gives us a whole
set of tools through which we can
communicate information, and some
of it are things we can control,
as you mentioned, and
other things are things that
perhaps are less in our control.
But we convey information through
the words we say, but
also how we say it and
the demeanor with which we say it.
I find this fascinating because
there's this whole other channel
that we often don't think about.
Can you discuss how our perceptions
of power in status are influenced
by nonverbal communication?
>> So it's an entire chapter my
books in the chapter.
It's called the five nonverbal
rules of power.
And what it is, is a Venn diagram
where the perception nonverbals
the ones we need to know to read
power accurately.
And the ones that
people think are associated with
power they intersect.
And there's five areas of nonverbal
behavior that if we remember those,
we can really tap into power.
I'll give you two that I think are
particularly useful because people
have a lot of control over them.
One of them is eye contact.
When you look at someone when
you're speaking and when they're
speaking, you're really taking up
space with your eyes.
You're not only saying, I see you,
I hear you, but
also I'm speaking to you, and
distributing that around the room.
You're almost spreading yourself
around the room when you're looking
around there.
So eye contact is one that we have
control over and it's easy to force
yourself to distribute and to use.
And it has additional benefits.
Not only does it convey power, but
it conveys intelligence and warmth.
So you just can't go wrong with eye
contact.
So that would be one that
I would say is one
that everyone can practice and
use and another one is expansion.
And I don't just
mean with your body.
I don't just mean taking up
physical space with the bubble
that's around your body, I mean
expansion in all kinds of ways.
So taking a longer time to say what
you're saying.
If you take more time,
you're taking up space.
So you see there's a number of
ways of taking up space.
You can do it with how much
you speak, how slowly you speak,
physically like spreading your body
out in a way that feels
comfortable.
So those were the two I
would say are easy to control and
there's a version of each that most
people could probably find.
>> So taking space and connecting
through space through eye contact,
really important.
That example of all the things we
could do to take space shows
the different types of paint that
we can use to paint in this
nonverbal way, right?
>> Yeah. >> It's how you say it,
how long you say it,
how you physically show up,
and not just you personally, but
the stuff you put in front of you,
all of that.
And there's this whole conversation
that's happening at that level that
we perceive,
that we don't necessarily
consciously think about.
I want to dive
just a little deeper.
Clearly culture and
context plays a role in this.
Some cultures I'm aware of eye
contact is actually seen as rude
because you're supposed to defer.
What's your take on the
intersection of culture and context
when it comes to non verbals.
>> Eye contact, there's not a lot
of variability cross culture when
it comes to the speaker making
eye contact with others.
It's where the rudeness or
the cross-cultural variability
in whether or not you're being
disrespectful comes, from whether
you're looking at the speaker when
you're being spoken to.
So it's when you're on
the receiving end of being yelled
at or uppermanded or whatever,
looking back is typically where you
see the variability.
Not if I'm the speaker and
I look at, but yes,
context matters, culture matters.
So what I like to say is that
there are certain sort of
pillars that are safe spaces.
For example, if you're trying to
convey warmth, looking at someone,
being a little bit closer to them,
how close varies by culture, but
proximity in general is associated
with intimacy,
body orientation toward.
So these are all cues called
immediacy cues directing your
communication toward them.
Like talking to them and smiling or
nodding like you're doing now,
you're encouraging me smiling and
nodding.
Those are called
back channel responses.
They unconsciously or
implicitly are saying, I hear you,
I see you,
I recognize what you're saying,
we're on the same page.
There's a cluster of things that
convey liking.
And so, there might be some
variability around how close or
how much eye contact.
But generally speaking,
those are safe.
And so, when we go to another
culture, we just need to figure out
what are the boundaries around.
So, if I go to one culture,
it's two kisses, kiss, kiss.
Other cultures, it's three kisses,
kiss, kiss, kiss.
Other cultures, it's
the left cheek first.
For another radio.
So it's kind of like those things.
It's a nonverbal version of how
many cheeks do I kiss and
how many times.
>> Right, I appreciate that answer.
It's very nuanced and
there's complexity to it.
But that's the reality of
nonverbal communication.
This is not simple.
I'm taking several things away from
what you said.
One that there's some foundational.
Principles are, as you said,
safe spaces around which
there's nuance that is culturally
learnable, and we just have to
be sensitive to that.
And so the big message I'm taking
away is, we just have to build
awareness and be sensitive.
We can ask, we can observe,
we can research to learn what's
appropriate and not appropriate,
and know that by invoking
the appropriate non-verbals, we can
achieve goals like demonstrating
warmth and liking that can really
help us in ways sometimes that our
words don't allow us to do.
>> Exactly.
>> I have another question for
you about the relative value of
non-verbals in actual messages.
Where do you fall on the relative
importance of verbal content versus
non-verbal behavior.
In other words,
what we say versus how we say it?
>> No, I don't think any reasonable
scientist would say that non-verbal
is more important than verbal.
I think most of us would say both
are extremely important.
If we're in a domain where I have
a reason to lie, or maybe I don't
know, like racial bias and
discrimination being one, right?
People aren't aware of their
biases, or they are aware of them
but maybe not the extent to which
they hold them.
Then we get into some territory
where non-verbal start to be maybe
more meaningful than verbals
because I don't realize that I have
bias.
I think that when you get into
territory where either people don't
have introspective access
to how they think or feel or
they have their incentives not
to reveal it, right?
Looking at an economic game, or
a strategic interaction, or
a negotiation, that's where
non-verbal becomes really fun and
interesting and useful, because
words aren't enough in that case.
>> Absolutely, yeah, so
they're both important, and
sometimes differentially important,
depending on the context.
Which again brings
us back to this notion of context.
So I have an example I always use
when I teach.
If you were in a doctor's office
and the doctor says,
how are you doing?
That means one thing.
If you were at a bar at a party and
somebody says how are you doing,
that means something very
different.
The words are the same.
The environment and
context is different.
And we somehow know how to navigate
through that.
But also we can run into a lot of
trouble when we misunderstand.
>> Yes, and
this is when knowing where our goal
is is so credibly important.
If I'm at that bar and my goal is
I'm attracted to this person and so
I want to convey some attraction.
So I might dip into some cues
associated with attraction or
being attractive.
So when people use a breathy or
voice, they can
come off as a little more
attractive versus I'm a doctor and
my goal is empathy, I want you to
know that I'm listening.
So the first thing you need to
think about in the context is,
what's my goal here?
If I'm a doctor,
I want to make sure that my patient
feels heard and understood.
If I'm in a bar and I just truly
want to know how someone's doing,
I don't want to use a vocal tone
that might express attraction,
I might want to be more casual or
a be like, hey, how you doing and
use colloquial kind of tone of
voice with a lot of vocal
variability that might be
associated with having a good time.
So that's the first thing to do,
is what is my goal in this social
interaction.
And look, all of this stuff is
happening in a fraction of
a second, right?
I mean, we don't sit down and
script out what we're going to do
before I'm going to go to the bar
and when I see this person
I'm going to say.
I like to think about non-verbal
communication as a language because
once we know what's the list of
cues associated with liking,
which ones of those are associated
with platonic liking versus
intimate liking.
And when I do this one, gosh,
I don't mean to be sending
the wrong signal, so
now you know not to do them.
And which behaviors are associated
with being trusted,
which behaviors are associated with
conveying power?
That I think really will help us
think about how can I best
land whatever it is that I am
trying to learn?
>> We've talked often about this
notion of having a goal when
you communicate.
By default, I think many people
think of the words that I say.
And what I'm hearing,
you say is we have to expand that
goal to be thinking about how do
we achieve that goal, not just for
the words we say but how we say it.
And that's really,
really important.
This notion of there's a language
and we have to understand and
become fluent in that language, and
some are more fluent than others,
perhaps we have time to talk about
the people receiving that language.
If I'm at a bar and hope that
you're signaling attraction to me,
I'm going to be looking for
things in a way that I might not.
If I weren't, the rose colored
glasses, if you will, which I think
is a separate conversation about
our perception of nonverbals, not
just our signaling of nonverbals.
>> Sometimes the non-verbal
cues overlap, but
if the audience takes one thing
away from this conversation about
non-verbal communication is that
they're perception and expression,
and that they're different, and
also they overlap.
And the easiest places to memorize
what I've accused are the places of
overlap which is when we talked
about the five non-verbal rules of
power and I gave you two of them.
They're at the intersection of both
perception and expression which is
those are the nice ones to memorize
and practice because they do both.
>> Excellent.
I want to keep this notion of
language and fluency.
What are some things that we can
do to become more aware of our
non-verbal communication and
how they come across?
When I'm learning a language,
I practice with people who say, no,
your accent's off or
you're saying that wrong.
What are some things that we can do
to actually become more fluent.
How can we learn about it?
I ask my students to digitally
record themselves as they practice
so they see their nonverbal, and
then they watch it and then they
listen to it separately so they're
hearing the different channels.
What advice do you have about ways
to help us become more conscious of
what we're doing?
Because a lot of this is
unconscious.
>> Yes, that is exactly right
hearing or seeing ourselves.
So watching yourself
is a really big way to know how
at least do you perceive yourself?
I would add some layers on top
of that.
First of all,
in an exercise like that,
write down beforehand one or
two goals that you have for
that interaction.
Do I want to try to come off
as really smart here?
Do I want to be warm?
Am I trying to make new friends?
Am I trying to do well in this
negotiation?
Am I trying to do well in this
negotiation and retain friends?
[LAUGH] What's my goal?
And then I watched that video or
listen to the audio, and
I try to access whether I
appropriately landed that way.
At least did I think If that I
correctly sent the messages
I intended to send,
that's one piece of the puzzle.
But that's your perception.
Now it's a matter of what did
other people perceive?
A big part of it is,
I intended to be kind and when I
look at myself I seem to be kind.
But we lack self-awareness about
how we come across sometimes and
other people will see us and
say no, let's say our faces tend to
be a little cranky and
we know that we smiled three more
times in that interaction.
So for us, we're like,
I was so nice in that interaction,
I smiled three times,
I never smiled.
So for us, we knew it was a big
deviation from our baseline, and so
we think we landed in a really
warm, positive way.
But a stranger or another person
with whom we interacted,
if they were to watch and make
ratings on those same dimensions
might give us a much lower score.
Which helps us assess, okay, so
of how I intended to land and
whether or not I was successful.
And there was how did
other people perceive that?
And so that's the missing piece in
that puzzle is how do other
people perceive you?
And a layer a bit more on top
of that,
which is how do you, Strangers
perceive you versus friends or
people who know you a little bit.
>> This is really useful in that we
can all look to better understand
our nonverbal presence in terms of
how it's landing.
We have our intent and we can see
it, and we have knowledge relative
to our baseline, but we also
have to seek outside of ourselves.
>> Yeah. >> And when we do that,
we also have to think about how
much information does another
person have about us?
>> Yes.
>> That's really insightful.
And in fact, it's going to change
the way I have my students look at
their own behavior.
>> Exactly.
>> I like to say the only way to
get better communication, verbal or
nonverbal is three things,
repetition, reflection, and
feedback.
>> Totally. >> Practice,
you have to reflect, and
then you have to give feedback.
Dana, before we end,
I'd like to ask you some questions.
The first question
will be unique to you.
And then the other two
are questions I ask everybody.
Are you up for that?
>> Yep, sounds great.
>> Is there a particular nonverbal
behavior that you look to, to
assess credibility and confidence
when you're talking to others?
What is it that you look for
as an expert in this?
Is there one thing you look for?
>> Yes, we have not talked about
coherence across channels.
We talked about different channels
of communication.
The voice, the body, the face, but
we haven't talked about consistency
across those channels.
I'm looking for
consistency across channels.
If my face and my body and
my voice and my words, if all of
those things are, quote unquote,
saying the same thing,
that makes me feel like that person
is kind of full in that way, right?
I feel comfortable with them, not
only that they know what they're
talking about and I know whatever
they're saying is probably true.
That is the thing that I pay
attention to the most.
And if people are inconsistent
across channel, doesn't necessarily
mean somethings are right.
But it's something I pay attention
to because it provides information
about, are they conflicted about
what it is they're talking about.
>> I appreciate you sharing with us
this notion of coherence,
because we've really dissected
nonverbal communication into these
very specific parts.
And we have to remember that
there's a totality in a whole that
gets communicated.
And that we can assess that as
well.
It's not just did you make eye
contact?
Is the eye contact consistent with
the body posture,
with the vocal tone?
>> And the words.
>> And the words to help?
Thank you.
Question number two,
who is a communicator that you
admire and why?
>> Winston Churchill.
>> Tell me more.
>> The two reasons I think that
he's just one
of the best communicators,
the one that I probably look up to
the most is that he was so
effective in being able to grab
the hearts and minds of an entire
country and to galvanize people.
And the second reason is that
Winston Churchill turned a speech
impediment into his greatest source
of power.
He had a stutter,
and he turned that into pause.
Because of his stutter, he learned
to pause a lot and to use those
pauses extremely effectively.
>> Truly an amazing communicator
and he worked hard.
Final question, what are the first
three ingredients that go into
a successful communication recipe?
>> So first of all,
we talked about goals, right?
You have to know what your goal is.
If you don't have clarity, at least
a little bit of clarity about what
your goal is, then you're not
going to be very effective.
So my goal today was just to be
clear.
I didn't quite know
where we were going to go.
I just knew that it was important
for me to, whatever it was,
that I was going to get it
across in a way that
was at least a little bit succinct.
Then knowing the nonverbal
behaviors that land best for us.
And that goes back to what we were
talking about, the baseline,
knowing how we typically are so
that we can figure out, okay,
I need to dial up the warmth.
I don't come across warmly at all.
Gosh, I kind of see mean and
I'm not mean at all,
something you're trying to be
something that you're not.
It's that you are something but
it doesn't come across, and
you're like, gosh, I need to,
how do I fix that, right?
And that's where your idea of
practice.
So then it's knowing which
cues I can dabble in.
There's a long list of immediacy
cues that you can look at to try to
practice and
try on to figure out which one
suits you the best literally and
then what you said practice.
And it's not about faking it or
not being authentic.
It really is about,
I am a nice person.
Or let's say you're
not a nice person.
Let's say you truly are not
a nice person.
Let's say you're a cranky person,
but there are some times
that you're nice, and let's say,
your goal is to be nice right now.
So my advice is try to think about
the times that you want to be nice
or that you are nice or
that you truly feel nice and say,
okay, what are the things that
are most comfortable for
me to do when I am being nice?
And then tap into those behaviors,
because those are the ones that
are comfortable for you.
And then practice them and
they do, in fact,
land the way you intended them to.
So those are the ingredients.
It's having a goal, knowing
the best nonverbal behaviors that
land what you're intending to land,
and then practicing, right?
Just making sure that you're doing
them in an unconscious way, that
you don't have to spend a whole lot
of time thinking about it,
that they're just automatically
coming out of you.
>> So be clear on your goal,
be clear on your baseline and
practice.
So Dana, thank you so much for
your time and for your wisdom.
People can't see this, but
I'm bowing my head and
putting my hands together to
demonstrate gratefulness.
>> And I have my hand on my heart
and I'm nodding my head to you
saying thank you so much.
[MUSIC]
>> Thank you for joining us for
another episode of
Think Fast Talk Smart,
The Podcast from Stanford GSB.
To learn more about nonverbal
communication, please listen to
episode 12 with Dev Grundfeld, or
Episode 16 with Bert Albert.
This episode was produced by
Jenny Luna, Ryan Campos, and me,
Matt Abrahams.
Our music is from Floyd Wonder.
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Be sure to subscribe and rate us.
Also, follow us on LinkedIn and
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check out fastersmarter.io for
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and our newsletter.
[SOUND] >> Hi, all, Jenny here.
I produce Think Fast Talk Smart,
and I want to share with you some
of the latest offerings from
Stanford GSB Executive Education.
This year, they will be offering
some pretty exciting programs,
including the Strategic Chief
Sustainability Officer Program,
the Asian Leadership Program, and
the Digital Transformation Program.
The application window is now open.
To learn more,
go to grow.stanford.edu/upcoming.
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