Who created God? | John Lennox at UCLA
Summary
TLDRThe transcript addresses profound questions about the nature of God, creation, and the universe. It explores the challenges faced by materialists regarding the universe's beginning and tackles the classic question of 'Who created God?' The speaker emphasizes that the Christian claim is that God is eternal, not created. They discuss mysteries in Christianity, like the Trinity, and compare them to unexplained scientific concepts like consciousness and energy. The discussion highlights how both science and faith deal with mysteries and argues that belief in God provides a coherent explanation for existence.
Takeaways
- 🌌 The speaker discusses the difficulty of understanding the concept of a beginning in a materialistic universe, referencing the Big Bang theory and the age-old question of what preceded it.
- 🤔 The question of what created God is explored, with the suggestion that it implies a misunderstanding of God as being created rather than uncreated or eternal.
- 🕰️ The concept of God being outside of time is mentioned, which is a way to express the incomprehensibility of God's nature to humans.
- 🔄 The speaker points out that the question 'who created God?' is a form of begging the question, as it assumes that everything must have a creator.
- 📚 Reference is made to religious texts, particularly the Gospel of John, to support the idea that God was not created but 'already was'.
- 🔢 The Trinity is acknowledged as a mystery, and the speaker uses the example of consciousness and energy to illustrate that there are many things we accept as real without fully understanding them.
- 👥 The speaker shares a personal analogy of marriage to explain the concept of the Trinity, suggesting that God is a fellowship of persons, which is a mystery but also magnificent.
- 🧠 The debate with Richard Dawkins is mentioned, highlighting the challenge of asking who created the universe if one believes that the universe created us.
- 🔬 The speaker emphasizes the explanatory power of concepts like God, even if we cannot fully comprehend them, drawing a parallel to scientific concepts like energy.
- 💡 The idea that God is not a solitary being but a community is presented as a profound mystery that offers a deeper understanding of God's nature.
Q & A
What is one of the main challenges materialists face regarding the origin of the universe?
-Materialists often struggle with the concept of a beginning to the universe, as they are confronted with the question of what caused the initial cause. The Big Bang theory suggests the universe started at a certain point, but this leads to further questions about what initiated that event.
How does Christianity address the question of who created God?
-Christianity claims that God is eternal and uncreated. Therefore, the question 'Who created God?' does not apply because God is considered to exist outside of time and was not brought into being.
What was Augustine's perspective on God's relationship to time?
-Augustine argued that God exists outside of time. This explanation addresses the question of creation but is often difficult to fully comprehend because humans have no experience of what it means to exist outside of time.
How does the speaker respond to the idea that Christian mysteries, such as the Trinity, are just ways of saying 'we don't know'?
-The speaker acknowledges that Christian mysteries, like the Trinity, are difficult to understand. However, he argues that just because something is mysterious doesn’t mean it lacks explanatory power. Mysteries like energy and consciousness are also not fully understood, yet they are accepted due to their explanatory power.
How does the speaker handle Richard Dawkins' argument from 'The God Delusion' regarding the creation of God?
-The speaker counters Dawkins' argument by stating that asking 'Who created God?' assumes that God is created, which contradicts the Christian claim that God is eternal and uncreated. He also flips the argument by asking Dawkins who created the universe, which Dawkins claims created us, to highlight the limits of the question.
What analogy does the speaker use to help explain the Christian concept of the Trinity?
-The speaker uses the analogy of marriage, where two people become 'one flesh' to illustrate a sense of unity and fellowship. He suggests that similarly, God is not a singular entity but a fellowship of three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), which reflects the unity within the Trinity.
Why does the speaker believe in concepts like consciousness and energy even though their true nature is unknown?
-The speaker believes in these concepts because of their explanatory power. Although their exact nature is a mystery, their ability to explain various phenomena makes them valid beliefs, much like how the mystery of the Trinity explains certain aspects of Christian faith.
What distinction does the speaker draw between created things and uncreated things?
-The speaker highlights that the Christian view distinguishes between created things (which 'came to be') and the uncreated (which 'already was'). God, according to Christianity, falls into the category of the uncreated, as God has always existed.
How does the speaker respond to a physicist’s critique of the Trinity as irrational?
-The speaker turns the critique back on the physicist by asking if he knows what energy or consciousness truly are. When the physicist admits that he doesn’t know, the speaker argues that just because we don’t fully understand something doesn’t mean it isn’t real or rational.
What conclusion does the speaker reach about mysteries in science and religion?
-The speaker concludes that mysteries are present in both science and religion. Just as scientists accept mysterious concepts like energy due to their usefulness, Christians can accept mysteries like the Trinity because they provide a coherent explanation for religious experiences and beliefs.
Outlines
🌌 The Question of God's Creation and Time
In this paragraph, the speaker discusses the dilemma faced by materialists regarding the beginning of the universe. They touch on the Big Bang theory and Christianity's longstanding belief in creation, leading to a common question: 'If everything has a cause, what created God?' Augustine's explanation that God exists outside of time is mentioned, although it is acknowledged that the concept of being 'outside time' is hard to comprehend. The speaker explores the mystery of the Christian Trinity—how the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit can be three and yet one—and reflects on the limitations of human understanding when grappling with these deep theological mysteries.
❓ The Philosophical Challenge of 'Who Created God?'
Here, the speaker delves into the frequently posed question 'Who created God?', especially popularized by Richard Dawkins in his book *The God Delusion*. They recount how this question is flawed, as it assumes God is a created entity, which contradicts the central Christian claim that God is uncreated and eternal. The speaker shares experiences from debating this issue with scientists and intellectuals, highlighting the distinction between created things and things that have always existed. They also turn the question back on Dawkins, asking, 'Who created your creator?' This section emphasizes that the question itself misunderstands the fundamental nature of God.
🔢 The Mystery of the Trinity and Its Explanatory Power
The speaker now tackles the concept of the Trinity—how God can be three in one—and reflects on the mystery surrounding this Christian doctrine. They share an anecdote about a physicist questioning how a mathematician can believe in the Trinity. In response, the speaker asks the physicist to explain consciousness and energy, noting that even though we don't fully understand these concepts, we still believe in them because of their explanatory power. Similarly, while we can't fully comprehend the mystery of the Trinity, it makes sense of the evidence of God's nature. The speaker compares the unity of God to the unity of marriage, where two people become one, suggesting that this analogy hints at the greater reality of God's relational nature.
🤝 God as a Fellowship, Not a Monolith
In this concluding paragraph, the speaker reflects on the idea of God as a fellowship rather than a solitary being. They propose that the concept of the Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—suggests that God is not alone or in need of creation for companionship. Instead, God's nature is inherently relational, existing as a fellowship within himself. This mystery, though beyond human understanding, reveals a significant aspect of God's character. The paragraph closes by promoting the Veritas Forum, encouraging listeners to explore further recordings and events.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Materialistic Universe
💡Big Bang Theory
💡Uncaused Cause
💡Mystery
💡Trinity
💡Created God
💡Consciousness
💡Energy
💡Fellowship
💡Explanatory Power
Highlights
The Big Bang theory supports the idea that the universe started at a specific time, aligning with Christianity's claim that the universe was created.
The question of 'Who created God?' is commonly posed but assumes God is a created being, which contradicts the Christian belief that God is eternal and uncreated.
Richard Dawkins raises the question of who created God in his book 'The God Delusion,' but the Christian view posits that God is outside the realm of created entities.
John's Gospel introduces the idea that 'in the beginning was the Word,' emphasizing that God has always existed and is not part of the created order.
Greek philosophy differentiated between created things and things that have always existed, and the Christian claim is that God is one of the latter.
The question 'Who created your creator?' can be turned back on materialistic views, such as Dawkins', which claim that the universe created humans.
God being 'three in one' is acknowledged as a mystery within Christianity, though it's not unique for important concepts to be mysterious (e.g., energy and consciousness).
A physicist may not fully understand energy or consciousness, yet believes in their existence due to their explanatory power, which can be analogized to belief in God.
Belief in God, despite mystery, can be justified by the explanatory power of the concept, much like belief in energy or consciousness in science.
The analogy of marriage is used to illustrate the Christian concept of God as three in one: just as a married couple is two persons in one flesh, God is three persons in one entity.
The concept of the Trinity shows that God is not a monolithic being but a fellowship, which reflects a profound and mysterious aspect of the divine nature.
The Christian view of the Trinity emphasizes relationality within God's nature, suggesting God was never lonely, even before creating humans.
The challenge of explaining the Trinity reflects the broader difficulty in understanding deep mysteries about reality, whether in theology or science.
Many scientific concepts, like energy and consciousness, are accepted without complete understanding, similar to theological concepts like the Trinity.
The speaker emphasizes that Christianity doesn't offer simplistic answers but rather engages with profound mysteries, much like science.
Transcripts
one of the most basic difficulties for
those who hold the view of the
materialistic universe is the question
of a beginning and as you pointed out
before uh Christianity has long claimed
that the Universe was created and now we
have the big bang big bang theory that
suggests at least that it started as at
a certain time and um
and
yet then there's always the issue yes
but I if there can't be an uncaused
cause then what created God uh and uh
and and I guess Christianity perhaps
gives different answers to that as I
understand it Augustine's answer was
that uh God is outside time and in a way
that's a good answer but it seems to me
that that's a way of saying we don't
know what the explanation is because
none of us has the slightest idea of
what it means to be outside time or
Christianity says that the father and
the Son and the Holy Spirit are three
but they are one and from those
statements many wonderful things follow
and yet it seems to be a way of saying
we don't know what it is because we have
no idea of what it means to be three and
to be one and how uh a God as powerful
and as amazing let's say as the god of
job
could appear in the form as a human
being and be the holy spirit so so my
point is this and as I say I think this
may be a strength or a weakness but it
does seem as if many of the difficult
questions are just explained by
Mysteries which is a Christian word uh
that uh that in a way are saying we
don't
know so I don't know if that's a whether
that's a challenge or a suggestion or
help it's a wonderful challenge but I'd
be interested in your response to it yes
yes I I I I love this particular uh
thing and I've had to think about it a
great deal because of course it's is
absolutely obvious that um replacing one
Mystery by another is not always a
helpful Way Forward sometimes it might
be yeah well let let well it's a more
sensible mystery um let's let's unpack
this because there are three or four
questions which is why I wrote them down
because with my dying brains I can't
remember everything but let's come to
that first question which has interested
me because it's become a great Focus
recently um both in North America and
Britain and in Europe everybody's
talking about it I thought I'd left it
behind in Russia and that's the question
who created
God and Dawkins has made it the heart of
his book The God Delusion I was
staggered when I find it there what I
mean about Russia ladies and gentlemen
is I used to get this all the time in
the Academy of Sciences when I was
traveling out to Russia in the in the in
the late 1980s the early 1990s you see
that it was almost the first question if
you believe that God created the
universe then logically you've got to
ask the question who created God and
then you have to ask who created the god
that created the god that created the
god the created God the created God and
so on ADD
infinitum and that was the of God of
course and that's exactly what Dawkin
says in The God
Delusion well let's analyze it for a
moment who created
God if you ask that question it shows
you've
immediately categorized God as
created so you're talking about a
created God now you imagine if Richard
Dawkins had written a book called The
created God's delusion I don't think
many people would have bought it because
I don't need him to tell me that created
gods are a delusion we usually call them
Idols
incidentally but you see this
question this this this question is
extremely interesting because it's an
illustration of a question that
already rules out the explanation that's
most likely to be true because the
Christian claim is that God wasn't
created so if God was
uncreated in the beginning was the word
and I'm coming to your three and one now
and I'm bringing it in obliquely in the
beginning was the word the word was with
God and the Word was God he already
was so the Central Christian claim is
and in Judaism and Islam of course
equally is that God is eternal so the
question by definition doesn't even
apply to
him and that's immensely
important the only way you can get
anything out of it then in the negative
sense is to assume that everything is in
the category of the created but that's
just begging the original question and
the Greeks were interested in it and
that's why John's gospel starts with
those words in the beginning the word
already was and then it says all things
came to be through him the Greeks were
interested in a question of two
categories the things that came to be
the created things and the things that
already were and the the question
resolves down to this is there a thing
or a being that never came to be and
that is the Christian claim and he's
called God but there's a little cissal
to this you see Richard Dawkins and I
had a debate with him on this very Topic
in Oxford and uh I said said to him
Richard you say that who created God is
a legitimate question I don't think it
is but let me assume now that it
is you believe that the universe created
you so I beg leave now to ask you using
your own question who created your
creator I'm waiting still for the
answer so that's the first point very
briefly to the second Point God is three
in one is it a mystery yes it is and am
I allowed to tell a little story yeah
think we should we on okay but do tell
the story yeah yeah yeah yeah I was
talking to about a thousand scientists
and a man came up to me afterwards uh
physicist and he said that was very
interesting all that talk about God but
he said do you know I detect you're a
Christian and I said
you're very astute
gentleman well that's what I said I said
you're pretty sharp and he said he said
come off it he said now look as a
Christian you're obliged to
believe that God is a
trunity that Jesus was God and
man and he said no come on you're a
mathematician at Oxford this is absurd
can you explain it to
me well I said can I ask you a question
first he said sure so I said tell me
what is
consciousness and he thought for a
second and then he said I don't know I
said that's okay let me try an easier
one what is
energy well he said I'm a physicist I
can measure energy I could use it I said
you know that's not my question what is
it he said I don't know oh I said that's
very interesting you don't know tell me
I said um do you believe in
Consciousness yes he said
do you believe in energy yes he said so
I said you believe in these two things
you don't know what they
are I said should I write you off as an
intellectual and he said please don't
and I said but that's exactly what you
were going to do with me five minutes
ago now I said if you don't know what
energy is and nobody does and if you
don't believe that you physicist read
Richard
feeman if you don't know what energy is
don't be
surprised if energy light
gravity and Consciousness are a mystery
don't be surprised if you're going to
get an element of this in God you're
bound to get it but now I pushed him a
bit further you see and I
said why do you believe in these things
if you don't know what they
are and that was a bit difficult so
being kind chap I try to help him out
and I said um you believe in these
things because of their explanatory
power as Concepts and he said that's
exactly right now I said look of course
I can't explain to you how God became
human but I said it's the only
explanation that makes sense of the
evidence as I see it now I said I've got
a simple analogy that might help you
it's a very low-level analogy but at
least is
biblical I'm married
I've been married for 42 and a half
years to the same person and
uh
and my wife and I are in a sense
one we're two persons in one flesh the
Bible would say but in one
unit and it seems to me that at the very
least don't misunderstand me when I say
this that this mystery is telling
something Magnificent about God God is
not a monolith who to put it crudely was
lonely so he made a few people so he
could have somebody to talk
to God is himself a
fellowship now that's undimensioned and
we can't grasp it but there is a sense
in which I I feel it's got to be
something like that
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