Death and the Idea of Material Body
Summary
TLDRThe transcript explores the nature of consciousness and the concept of non-duality, challenging materialist views of existence. It contrasts solipsism with non-duality, explaining that while finite minds perceive the world, they are not independent. The discussion emphasizes that the material world, including the body, is an illusion formed by perceptions in consciousness. The speaker suggests that consciousness is the foundation of all experience, urging a shift from the materialist paradigm to a consciousness-based understanding of reality.
Takeaways
- 🧠 Non-duality isn't synonymous with solipsism, which is the belief that only one's finite mind exists and that all others are mere perceptions.
- 🌐 Infinite consciousness can manifest multiple minds simultaneously, similar to many whirlpools in a river, but these minds are all made from the same source.
- 👀 Our perception of the world, people, and objects is simply an appearance in consciousness, not based on independent material existence.
- 🔥 The process of death and cremation is described as just a change in perception, from seeing the body alive to seeing it burning and eventually disappearing.
- 🤯 We never experience objects made of matter, only perceptions that appear in the mind, challenging the materialist viewpoint that matter exists outside of consciousness.
- 🔄 A shift in thinking from materialism to consciousness-based understanding is essential for grasping non-duality; we can't reconcile non-duality with materialism.
- 🌱 Consciousness is the primary and irreducible experience, and any model of experience must start from that foundation.
- 🏛️ Materialism, the belief that matter precedes consciousness, is compared to a house built on sand—it’s unstable and not reflective of our true experience.
- 📉 Humanity's reliance on the materialist paradigm is seen as potentially destructive, and future generations may look back on it as we do on the Dark Ages.
- 🔮 If the consciousness-based paradigm isn't embraced, materialism could lead to the downfall of humanity due to its inherent limitations and contradictions.
Q & A
What is the struggle the speaker describes regarding perceptions of objects and people?
-The speaker struggles with letting go of the belief in the existence of objects and people as independent entities. Even though they understand that nothing is independent, they still tend to think in terms of things and people existing materially.
How does the speaker describe their experience of a person's death?
-The speaker describes their experience of a person's death as a series of perceptions, from seeing the living person to witnessing the dead body and performing rituals like cremation. They acknowledge that these are all just perceptions, not actual material events.
What is solipsism, and how is it different from non-duality according to the speaker?
-Solipsism is the belief that only one's own finite mind exists, and everything else, including other people, is just an appearance in that mind. Non-duality, on the other hand, recognizes that multiple finite minds can exist within one infinite consciousness, unlike solipsism, which is a form of extreme self-centered belief.
How does the speaker explain the existence of multiple finite minds within infinite consciousness?
-The speaker compares finite minds to whirlpools in a river. Each finite mind is a localization of the same infinite consciousness. The same field of consciousness informs all finite minds, allowing them to share similar perceptions, such as experiencing the same room.
What happens to a person’s existence in other minds when they die, according to the speaker?
-When a person dies, their appearance in multiple finite minds disappears. However, the speaker emphasizes that the body, life force, and any perceptions of them were always just images in consciousness, not material entities.
Why does the speaker argue against the belief in matter, especially in relation to the body and death?
-The speaker argues that matter, as we understand it, is a conditioned belief. In non-duality, everything, including the body, is an image in consciousness, not made of material. The experience of matter comes from a narrowing of consciousness, not an independent material existence.
How does the speaker define the relationship between consciousness and matter?
-The speaker explains that consciousness is the primary element of experience, and matter is the narrowest form of that experience. Matter appears when consciousness narrows its focus, but it is not an independent reality.
How does non-duality challenge materialist conditioning, according to the speaker?
-Non-duality requires a complete abandonment of materialist conditioning, which starts with the belief that matter exists first and consciousness is secondary. In non-duality, consciousness comes first, and matter is simply an appearance within it.
What does the speaker mean when they say 'replace the matter model with the consciousness model'?
-The speaker means that instead of viewing reality as made up of matter from which consciousness arises, we should start with consciousness as the fundamental reality from which all experiences, including the perception of matter, arise.
How does the speaker believe future generations will view materialism?
-The speaker believes that future generations, possibly in 5,000 years, will look back on materialism as a primitive and misguided belief, similar to how we view the Dark Ages. They argue that materialism is unsustainable and could lead to the destruction of humanity.
Outlines
🤔 Struggle with Perceptions of Life and Death
The speaker expresses difficulty letting go of the conviction that there are objects and people, even though they acknowledge non-duality and interconnectedness. They describe their perception of death, such as preparing and burning a body in a Hindu ritual. They recognize that all experiences, including life and death, are just perceptions. The speaker wrestles with the concept of solipsism, the belief that only one's mind exists, and contrasts it with non-duality, which accepts the possibility of multiple minds or experiences existing simultaneously in infinite consciousness.
🧠 Questioning the Nature of Matter and Consciousness
The speaker challenges the belief in a body made of matter, suggesting that what is perceived, even a dead body, is an image in the mind rather than an actual material object. They argue that our experience of matter is conditioned by materialist thinking, and true experience is rooted in consciousness, not physical substance. The speaker emphasizes that consciousness comes before matter, and that the belief in matter as independent of consciousness is an illusion.
🏛 Building a Paradigm on Consciousness
The speaker discusses how any model of experience must be based on consciousness, which is the most fundamental aspect of experience. They compare materialist thinking to a house of cards built on shaky foundations, urging that a consciousness-based model is the only solid ground. The speaker hopes that in the distant future, materialism will be seen as a primitive belief, much like how we now view the Dark Ages. They also suggest that materialism could lead to the destruction of humanity if it continues to dominate, as it inherently contradicts the essence of life and consciousness.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Non-duality
💡Consciousness
💡Materialism
💡Perception
💡Solipsism
💡Finite Mind
💡Illusion
💡Death
💡Mind
💡Matter
Highlights
The speaker discusses the struggle of letting go of the conviction that objects and people exist independently.
The speaker highlights the experience of death and how perceptions of life and death are all registered in the mind.
The concept of solipsism is explored, emphasizing that solipsism is a belief in the sole existence of one's own mind, contrasting with non-duality.
Non-duality is explained as an understanding where multiple finite minds exist, all drawing from a single source of infinite consciousness.
The speaker likens finite minds to whirlpools in a river, each being a localization of the same infinite field of consciousness.
When a person dies, the body remains, but the life force disappears. The speaker notes that this is a perception in the mind, not an objective reality.
The idea that we never experience a body made of matter is discussed, proposing that our experience of the body is an image in the mind.
The belief in matter and the materialist conditioning are criticized, as they conflict with non-dual understanding.
The speaker argues that consciousness is the primary experience, not matter, reversing the traditional materialist view.
Matter is described as a narrow element of our experience that appears when consciousness focuses on the waking state.
The speaker asserts that the body and world are subsets of the mind, and the mind is a localization of consciousness.
The speaker explains that when a body stops appearing in awareness, its reality doesn't disappear, as everything is part of consciousness.
Experience is considered real, but the belief that the world is made out of matter is deemed an illusion.
The speaker emphasizes that non-duality requires replacing the materialist model with the consciousness model to align with reality.
The speaker predicts that in the distant future, materialism will be looked back on as a limited and erroneous paradigm, much like the dark ages.
Transcripts
I'm just asking a curiosity question
follow-up from that one and it's about
letting the conviction that there are
objects and matter go and I struggle a
lot to let that go because I
automatically think there are things and
people even though not that we are
independent but I'm still thinking there
are things and people and I wanted to
just follow up on that a description of
when someone dies so when someone is
alive I know them by seeing them by
hearing them to all the perceptions and
then if I hurt them or something so I
have an experience like that and then
when they die I'm I'm washing the body
for example and I'm preparing it for
burning and then I see the body burning
right and I will put the stick on the
head in Hinduism to break the skull all
these are perceptions only perceptions
so it's a concept in my mind that you
know the person was alive and now the
person is dead actually it's all only
perceptions that I'm registering
we can't say that another person or the
world is that it's only existence is in
our our finite mind that would be
solipsism to understand what I mean
solipsism is the belief that only my
finite mind exists and that all of you
are just an appearance in my finite mind
it's it's on the contemporary non-dual
scene it is quite often misunderstood
it's quite often believed to be
synonymous with non duality it's not
solid system is a kind of madness it
believing that only no not your mind my
mind and yes there's only my mind you
are just an appearance in my mind all
you are isn't appearance in my mind
you don't have any no thoughts apart
from the thought that I am having the
only perception there is is the
perception that I am having now that all
of you are just a perception in my mind
and the fact that we seem to be talking
and it appears that you are having
feelings and not at all you are not
having feelings or thoughts because you
are just an appearance in my mind this
is not non duality you
there is nothing to suggest that in
infinite consciousness there cannot be
several in fact billions of
precipitations at the same time just as
there can be many whirlpools in a river
the stuff that each precipitation is
made of is the same each precipitation
collapses or is a localization of the
same infinite field it is one field and
this this single field of consciousness
precipitates as the finite mind in order
to experience form so there's no reason
why the same information shouldn't
appear in two finite minds yes no no I I
realize oh you're good with that so for
instance now there could be there could
be 80 finite minds and this room could
be appearing in each of those finite
minds so each fine our mind is drawing
the same not exactly the same but
similar information from the collective
field and therefore we all experience
the same room it's because our finite
minds are all informed by the same
source by the same field they're all
precipitations of the same field
so when when someone dies that that
particular that that appearance in in
your finite mind and in all finite minds
it it disappears the body remains for a
while but the life forces but you see
when when you say the body that the body
we never experienced a body made out of
matter I mean but the view or the
sensation of the dead body you say but
that's mine that's an image in your mind
and an image in many people's minds it's
it's so an image can disappear out of
the mind but we never experience the
object made out of matter in order to
experience something made out of matter
we would have to find something outside
the mind can you find something outside
the mind why do you have such a
tenacious belief in the existence of
matter then I'm breaking them so you
know seeing the life force has left this
body but actually no that's just an
image in my mind you know the old
beliefs like um when I see a dead body
I'm like oh this is not the person I
knew because this is just flesh like
there's no life force but it's not even
flesh it's not you see your your
materialist conditioning and we will
have this materialist conditioning I'm
not singling you out this this you're
trying to fit your old material is
conditioning into non duality trying to
work out how this stuff made out of
flesh made out of matter
can still be consistent with the
non-dual understanding it can't we have
to you have to completely forget our
materialistic conditioning materialistic
conditioning starts with the belief
matter was here first and consciousness
is a derivative of matter our experience
is the opposite consciousness is here
first
mind is a localization of consciousness
and what we call matter appears in mind
so matter is that narrowest element of
our experience he comes into existence
when consciousness narrows its focus as
it broadens its focus out of the waking
state into the dream said that this
concrete staff called matter disappears
matter is the smallest element of our
experience the body and the world are
the smallest elements of experience they
are subsets of the mind and the mind in
turn is a localization of consciousness
that is our experience yeah what is your
primary experience yeah in order for
there to be any experience
there must be consciousness
consciousness was here first yeah so now
if I flip it then that body just stopped
appearing and awareness yes that object
just stopped appearing in awareness yes
and it just so happened that it stopped
appearing in stages first it appeared
there animated then it appeared lying
then it appeared on a burning heart and
then he didn't appear yes but there was
never at any stage and separate and
independently existing object called
a body made out of stuff called matter
when he was fully alive when he was sick
when he was dying when he was dead when
he was burning and no stage was it made
out of stuff called matter it was just
an image appearing in consciousness it
was a it was yes it's amazing
yes yeah in other words when the when
the so-called body disappears it's
reality doesn't
that's what Hein Poe meant people ignore
the reality of the illusory world it
doesn't mean that our experience is
illusory experience is real but to
believe that the world is made out of
star cordon matter is an illusion and we
ignore the reality of experience
consciousness and believe instead the
illusion matter I think I've got it you
see it's a its own a reversal in the way
we think we have to replace the matter
model with the consciousness model we
cannot fit non duality into the matter
model it's it's it we have to start
again we have to start with our
experience because experience must be
the test of reality what is the primary
element of our experience consciousness
so if we want to build a model of
experience if we want to build a
paradigm then we have to start on solid
ground we have to start with our
experience if you start with a concept
everything you build upon that will only
be as good as your starting point it's
like a house of cards it's like a house
exactly it's like a house built on sand
so we have to go back and back about
what is my primary experience my primary
irreducible experience by the reduce
blaming we can't go further
back in our experience it gets
consciousness okay so start there there
is consciousness I am consciousness
everything that appears appears in me it
is mind clawing exactly yes you know a
materialism is just of course we've all
been brought up with it for centuries
our culture has been dominated by
materialism but if if the human race is
still going in 5,000 years time
hopefully they will look back on on this
relatively short period of materialism
they'll look at it like we look at the
dark ages they'll look at it with
incredulity these people believed that
that this that is luck that this amazing
experience all came from something dead
and inert they won't believe and you
know it's a big flip you that answer and
if humanity is not still going in five
hundred years time it will only be
because materialism has prevailed a few
Manatee will not survive the materialist
paradigm it will destroy itself it's a
law it has to and we're seeing it yeah
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