Breakpoint 2024: Fireside: Solana 2.0 (Anatoly Yakovenko, Mert Mumtaz)
Summary
TLDRThis video features a dynamic conversation with a prominent figure in the blockchain industry, who reflects on the progress of Solana, entrepreneurship, and innovation. The speaker shares insights into the challenges of building cutting-edge technology like blockchain phones, dealing with criticisms, and the drive behind staying engaged with the ecosystem. Highlights include discussions on mobile device evolution, blockchain scalability, and the importance of constant development in crypto. The speaker also emphasizes the value of experimentation, persistence, and building 'weird stuff' in tech to foster innovation.
Takeaways
- 🎤 The speaker humorously starts the talk by joking about the potential for shaving his head, mentioning that having three kids has caused him to lose more hair.
- 🚀 The speaker is deeply involved in the development of Solana, a blockchain platform, and despite his success, he remains highly engaged and hands-on with the project.
- 💡 Founders often have an insatiable drive to keep building and improving, which the speaker identifies as both a curse and a motivating factor.
- 📱 Solana Mobile launched a new, more affordable phone model priced at $500, with improved features and integration aimed at competing with major tech companies like Apple and Google.
- 🎮 The speaker discusses the paradox of advanced technology being used for seemingly trivial purposes, such as games, but notes that this is what often funds and pushes technological advancements.
- 🖥️ The vision for Solana includes creating a global, atomic state machine that operates at the speed of light, which the speaker believes could disrupt traditional financial systems by offering better prices and efficiency.
- 🛡️ The speaker expresses concern about the potential for bugs in blockchain systems, highlighting the importance of multiple client implementations to reduce the risk of catastrophic failures.
- 👨💻 The speaker enjoys his role as a principal engineer and envisions continuing to contribute to Solana's technical advancements for many years.
- 🛠️ The speaker encourages developers in the Solana ecosystem to experiment and build innovative, even 'weird,' projects, emphasizing the importance of trying new things and learning from the process.
- ☕ The speaker's famous routine includes two cappuccinos and a Kölsch beer, reflecting a personal ritual that helps fuel his productivity.
Q & A
What drives the speaker to continue working hard despite already achieving significant success?
-The speaker feels driven by an inner 'demon' that pushes him to always find and fix problems. He mentions it's easier to focus on work than to find peace in the present moment, and that it's rewarding to see founders and builders pushing the network forward.
What was the speaker’s role at Qualcomm, and how did it shape his perspective on mobile technology?
-The speaker was one of the early kernel engineers at Qualcomm, working on a mobile platform called Brew before Android and iPhone. His experience in booting up Android and trying to compete with the iPhone shaped his belief that mobile is the most important device, and that a crypto version of it is necessary to disrupt current closed ecosystems like those of Apple and Google.
Why does the speaker believe that Solana's first phone, despite being labeled as 'worst phone of the year,' was still a success?
-The phone sold out, which the speaker sees as a positive signal for a startup. He believes the key is to focus on one important detail and execute it well. In this case, the idea that developers can influence users to switch platforms using digital assets was successful, even if the overall phone had flaws.
What improvements have been made in the new Solana phone compared to the previous version?
-The new Solana phone is cheaper at $500 compared to the previous $1,000 device, has better specs, a lighter design, and improved software integration with Solflare to make the signing experience smoother. There are also more apps, rewards, and incentives for users to stay on the device.
Why does the speaker believe weird use cases can push blockchain technology forward?
-Weird use cases, such as meme coins or gaming, can generate significant revenue, which then funds the development of advanced infrastructure like Fire Dancer. The speaker compares it to how mobile games generate huge profits for Apple, enabling investment in critical infrastructure, even though the applications may seem trivial.
What is the speaker’s vision for a global state machine, and why does he believe it is important?
-The speaker envisions a single, fast, atomic, permissionless, global state machine that operates at the speed of light. He believes this would reduce inefficiencies, such as settlement risk and information asymmetry, in global finance, resulting in better pricing for users and a more efficient economy.
What is the speaker's biggest concern regarding the development of blockchain systems?
-The speaker's biggest concern is the potential for bugs in the system, particularly at the Layer 1 infrastructure level. These bugs could lead to catastrophic failures, which is why the Fire Dancer team focuses on creating a second implementation to reduce the likelihood of bugs affecting both versions of the protocol.
What does the speaker envision his role will be in 5-10 years?
-The speaker enjoys the role of a principal engineer and envisions continuing in that capacity, working on technical challenges, collaborating with talented teams, and contributing to design work. He hopes to remain involved in improving Solana and pushing it forward.
What advice does the speaker offer to founders in the Solana ecosystem?
-The speaker encourages founders to build 'weird stuff' and emphasizes the importance of continually trying new things, even if they fail. He advises founders to focus on learning and iterating through the process of finding product-market fit.
Why does the speaker frequently engage on social media, especially Twitter?
-The speaker grew up during the early days of the internet and became accustomed to being constantly connected. He admits that it's part of his nature to always be engaging with others and solving problems, and social media gives him an outlet for that.
Outlines
🎤 Kicking Off with Humor and Serious Talk
The speaker begins with a humorous and lighthearted introduction, joking about shaving their head due to hair loss from parenting. The conversation then shifts to a more serious topic: their work on building one of the best blockchains. Despite their success, they remain active and engaged in daily tasks, highlighting a deep-rooted drive to keep pushing forward, likening it to a 'curse' that makes them always seek improvement and action.
📱 A New Phone and Disruption of Tech Giants
The discussion moves to the speaker's involvement in the development of a crypto-friendly mobile device. They talk about the previous model receiving poor reviews but still selling out, which they see as a positive indicator for startups. They also emphasize the opportunity to disrupt Apple and Google’s control over the mobile ecosystem, particularly their high fees, with the new phone's improved features and lower cost.
🎮 Tech for Games and Global Disruption
The speaker reflects on the oddity that advanced technology is often driven by entertainment, like mobile games, rather than more serious applications. However, they argue that this playful use of technology pays for the infrastructure that can later be used for more significant purposes, such as creating a global, fee-less payment system. They see the current tech ecosystem as a sign of progress and a foundation for future disruption in global commerce.
💻 The Power and Potential of Global State Machines
The conversation dives deeper into the idea of a global state machine, explaining how delays and inefficiencies in current systems create opportunities for value extraction and higher costs. The speaker envisions a world where finance runs on a permissionless, global state machine moving at the speed of light, leading to better prices and reduced friction. They liken this disruptive potential to Linux’s impact on the tech world in the 90s.
🛡️ Building Secure Systems and Avoiding Catastrophic Bugs
The speaker discusses their biggest fear in the blockchain space: the risk of catastrophic bugs, whether in smart contracts or at the foundational layer. They express confidence in the Fire Dancer team, which is working to build a more robust and secure system. The ultimate goal is to achieve a diversified network where different implementations reduce the likelihood of shared bugs, moving the system beyond its beta stage.
🚀 Encouragement for Founders: Build Weird Stuff
The speaker offers encouragement to the next generation of founders, urging them to build 'weird stuff.' They share personal anecdotes about their own journey into technology and highlight the importance of experimentation and persistence. The advice is to keep trying, even if initial efforts fail, because iteration is key to finding product-market fit and creating something valuable.
☕ Two Coffees, a Beer, and Startup Wisdom
In a lighthearted conclusion, the speaker shares a fun fact about their famous combination of two cappuccinos and a beer, revealing that the beer was a Kölsch. This anecdote ties back to their earlier thoughts on innovation, suggesting that breakthroughs can happen in casual moments as well. The session ends with applause and admiration for the speaker’s contributions to the tech space.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Solana
💡Entrepreneurial drive
💡Blockchain as a global state machine
💡Fire Dancer
💡Saga phone
💡Disrupting big companies
💡Permissionless and atomic
💡Principal engineer track
💡Mobile platform control
💡Smart contract hacks
Highlights
The founder acknowledges the inevitability of losing hair with age, humorously suggesting he may shave his head by the next big event.
The founder discusses how being a 'reply guy' on Twitter, engaging with obscure accounts and trolls, is driven by an entrepreneurial curse of never being satisfied and always wanting to fix problems.
The mobile platform they are building aims to disrupt the monopolistic nature of Apple and Google, which charge developers 20% to 30% fees for apps.
Despite the first mobile device receiving the 'Worst Phone of the Year' award, the team learned from the experience and used it to create a better, cheaper device with improved specifications and integration with crypto.
The founder envisions a future where a crypto-based mobile phone can compete with Apple and Google if they reach a user base of 200,000 to 1 million units.
The founder shares that the biggest misconception about Solana is people assuming it’s only for certain 'weird' use cases, but he emphasizes that disruptive technologies often thrive in unexpected ways.
Solana’s ultimate vision is creating a global, permissionless state machine that moves at the speed of light, which could lower prices for consumers by removing inefficiencies in finance and other systems.
The founder compares the potential impact of blockchain technology to the disruptive rise of Linux, which overtook proprietary systems through the collective efforts of open-source developers.
The scariest aspect of working in blockchain, according to the founder, is the potential for bugs in both smart contracts and Layer 1 infrastructure, which could lead to catastrophic failures.
The founder expresses confidence that once the Fire Dancer project is fully implemented, the system will be much more secure, as it will reduce the likelihood of the same bug occurring across different software implementations.
Solana will no longer be considered in 'beta' once the Fire Dancer implementation reaches 33% or more of the network’s nodes.
In five years, the founder hopes to still be focused on engineering design, collaborating with other experts to create innovative solutions and contribute to Solana’s technical development.
Encouraging innovation, the founder advises Solana ecosystem developers to 'go build weird stuff,' emphasizing that even failure is part of the learning process toward success.
The founder reflects on how the digital world now enables global innovation, and that a founder today doesn’t need Silicon Valley or Wall Street to build successful products.
In a lighthearted moment, the founder reveals his favorite beer is a Kölsch, noting how he switched to cleaner, crisper beers after tiring of the IPA trend in San Diego.
Transcripts
[Music]
all right hello
manlets um so today we have an exciting
uh talk for you we're going to talk
about something we've never talked about
before uh
salana um and I have some spicy
questions for toie but um I thought we'd
maybe start a little serious first and
uh and on a lighter note um so my first
question toally is going to be when are
you shaving your
head thought about it like I have three
kids now and with every kid I have less
and less hair on my head so it's
inevitable maybe maybe next breakpoint
I'll I'll have a nice shiny head all
right you heard here first it's not any
out there you know what I'm talking
about um okay well so one thing that um
I think impresses everybody about you is
you've you've built you've helped build
one of the best blockchains in existence
the best blockchain existence um and um
you're still kind of in the trenches
every single day you've basically
already kind of made it but you're still
here kind of everyday reply guying like
the most obscure accounts on Twitter and
dinosaurs and stuff like that uh what's
what's driving you still why are you
still
here that's a good good question
um I don't know I think like a lot of
Founders or entrepreneurs are you know
like you kind of have that like demon in
you to go do stuff that dog you can't
that dog you can't sit still um it's
it's a curse right cuz you're like you
cannot be happy in the moment uh and
that's basic that's probably what I
struggle with the most it's it's easy to
work easy to look at and like find
problem s and then go put your energy in
fixing them and it's much harder to you
know have that presence and be happy
that that's I think you know the hard
part of like the entrepreneurial human
existence um but it's rewarding like it
it's it's awesome to see the founders
the builders everyone that's pushing the
network forward and and like I don't
know what else they'd be doing it's like
I I want to have this idea of this like
science fiction World computer where
State and information is synchronized at
the speed of light come to fruition and
I want to accelerate that as fast as I
can yeah so I want to actually talk
about that a bit later but you're
actually not standing still or sitting
still you're actually building
award-winning phones um uh we salana
mobile last year did win the best phone
of the or worst phone of the year uh
award by Mar's round brownly I think and
uh you were like nope you know what
we're just going to build another one
and uh I think you made an announcement
uh two days ago maybe um with the new
secr phone can you talk a bit about why
this one's different what what you're
excited about with the new
phone yeah um so as folks know I spent
most of my career qual camo is one of
the early kernel engineers and this
mobile platform called Brew this is the
first flip phones with just trying to
get developers to go build something
anything on mobile platforms so I was
there before before we had Android
before we had browsing and then when the
iPhone came out it was this big
revolutionary moment I was one of the
early folks trying to boot up Android
and and get that going to um to get like
a a reasonable competitor out to the
iPhone um mobile is is one of those
things that is I think the epitome of
that personal computer of the80s that
dream of having a a the tricorder and
Star Trek it is the most important
device um and I think somebody needs to
push a crypto version of it
because unfortunately the even though we
got Linux on the Linux one right the
there's more Android devices out there
than than Windows devices and probably
iPhone devices too um it is a very
closed ecosystem Google kind of sets the
standards and sensors applications and
decides what is okay and what is not
they also charge a massive fee 20% on
Google and 30% on Apple and it's when
you people talk about crypto disrupting
stuff and they think oh we're going to
disrupt Visa Visa's revenue of their on
top of their gross payment volume is
like 10 basis points that is a sliver of
a sliver and like Apple and Google is
30% that's 3,000 basis points um that is
such a massive difference and uh such a
huge opportunity to disrupt that it
feels like somebody should be doing it
and I haven't to have the skill set and
it felt like we could go and try and
make it work um and we shipped a
device and we got Maris to review it we
got to notice noticed huh you got you
got him to review the second one just
the first one I mean that was a surprise
to me that he even took a look at it
okay and even though he gave us a bust
of the Year award
[Laughter]
so it was a bad device right like you
can think of it oh man The Saga was not
the best phone out there um it's still
sold out which if you're a startup
founder that is actually a very very
positive signal when you build a product
as a startup founder you have to take
shortcuts you have to build it as fast
as you can to p a thesis and you're kind
of painting an impressionist painting
and you only focus on one really really
important detail and everything else is
sloppy right and like when it works
nobody noticed the sloppiness even if
somebody can paint out oh man those like
hands are not really hands right like
nobody cares about those details what
they care about is the one thing you got
right and I think the thesis that
developers can give out content and get
people to switch devices or switch
platforms we might have gotten right so
there is a like
the the thing with Bonk that happened
that was weird and and interesting is
that people sold a bonk that they had
and bought the phone to get the bankk
back so they they weren't like
arbitraging the price of the phone they
just saw an opportunity to take this
digital assets that nfts and all this
other stuff that are part of these
ecosystems it's really no different than
like fortnite skins or anything else
that people attribute value to in the
digital world they just happen to be
tradable they were able to go do this
and and use digital content to go switch
platforms that part worked and it could
work at 200,000 units we're at like
140,000 so I'm pretty sure we'll get
there it could work at a million units
and at that point I think that is a
large enough platform with a large
enough user base that it is actually
competitive for with Apple and Google um
so
like it it is like
a very very hard problem to disrupt
these big companies so how are you going
to do it what are the give me a very
quick bullet uh rapid fire of the new
features that you think are worthwhile
for everybody who who who maybe want to
look at the phone uh it's cheaper that's
the most important part so it's a $500
device instead of a $1,000 device it's
crazy to launch a $1,000 device that
that's just but with impressive yeah
with 20,000 units you it's impossible to
build uh a hardare at that like unit
cost to actually get it over the hump so
that was part of the tradeoffs it's much
cheaper has really good specs awesome
screen it's lighter the software we have
more time to iterate so the actual
integration with soul flare who's doing
like really really really like design
work to make sure that that experience
of signing is like Apple pay so a lot of
improvements there and hopefully a lot
more apps a lot more things for people
to do and like a lot more rewards and
everything else to incentivize users to
actually stay in a device and use it
cool well uh congrats on the launch
let's uh let's see if that's enough to
overcome the disgust people get from
seeing uh green messages on their phones
uh green bubbles or something I don't I
don't have an iPhone um okay let's
switch gears um uh I I tweeted today
about what I should ask you and the you
know I got a lot of troll answers but
probably the most troll one was like ask
ask him what he thinks about his blog
blockchain being used for some weird
stuff I'm paraphrasing weird here it was
it was actually quite specific um what
do you what do you kind of think about
what's being done on maybe blockchains
in general but also
salana yeah there's this weird dynamic
with the internet and a lot of
technologies that you have these weird
use cases that actually push the
technology forward um and even today you
look at iOS some of the coolest
applications that you think what makes
Apple in Mobile Magic is that I can push
a button and a car will appear magically
in front of me anywhere in the world
when when I push this button for LT or
Uber or whatever um but Apple makes
almost zero dollars in revenue from that
they actually make a ton of revenue from
games fart apps like Clash of Clans like
people you know spending money to go
kill older friends and their servers
that activity you don't think of it as
like why do we need the best designers
in the world at A3 trillion company and
at tsmc with 2 nanometer technology to
go build a game where you're like
playing Tower of defense or whatever it
is that you're doing um but that's what
people spend their time on um so you
kind of get these weird effects in Tech
where some of the stuff you build and
some of the stuff that generates the
most Revenue ends up being effectively
time filler for a lot of people but that
pays for the really really cool
infrastructure like you look at the fire
dancer uh demos a million TPS and a
private like globally distributed fiber
optic network with fpga switches that
are like the best technology like you
can even dream of in networking is used
for meme
coins is that okay yes it is okay it's
okay for that stuff to pay for the tech
so then you could have a global payment
system
that is no fees that is frictional that
is global and truly borderless and like
makes the rest of Commerce move much
much faster and cheaper um
so it to me it's a sign that like I
think we are living in a really really
blessed timeline where people can spend
their money and time on playing games
while we can build all this technology
to improve Commerce and make sure we
live in a in a world of abundance m
uh for everybody who didn't I'm guessing
everybody watched Kevin Bower's talk but
totally just mentioned something that I
think probably most people didn't
understand because Kevin Bowers is super
intimidating but uh the fire dancer team
uh and correct me if I'm wrong did 1
million TPS on a network of 100 nodes
correct which is pretty insane right um
and so what globally distributed so
these are nodes all over the world yeah
all over the world so with like Network
Jitter and all this and so maybe that
brings me to the next question which is
you always talked about you know
blockchain or NASDAQ at blockchain no
blockchain at NASDAQ speeds see it's
very confusing get rid of it um and uh
the global State machine and it's what
drives you and stuff and one of my
critiques to that has been like why do
you think people care that it's a global
State machine like is that actually the
thing that people have a use for or do
you just think it's cool and you want to
like you know build it so like what does
that actually mean and why do you think
it's important the kind of time as money
right is is the most apparent in trading
and finance and execution so when an
order is delayed when uh the cue to get
the orders has like attack vectors and
MAV extraction and all all these things
these are all like sand in the gears of
finance and that means that people have
to pricer things higher than they should
be because of all these
little like things that extract value or
or collect rents from a information
asymmetry so that causes prices to be
worse for
people and that exists with any kind of
system that introduces delays or
settlement risk or anything else so if
you want to think about how do we
disrupt like what is the the final stage
of all of Finance in my view it is a
single giant Global State machine that
is moving as fast as speed light does
physics allow that is atomic and
permissionless and Global and there's
the the cool thing is that this can be
built on Hardware that is available to
anyone in the world with open source
software by volunteers effectively kind
of running these boxes and stuff um and
that's a very very disruptive idea in my
mind it is as disruptive of as Linux was
in the 90s where you had these
proprietary commercial operating systems
that were very expensive to build that
took you know 100,000 engineers at
Microsoft and these hobbyists were like
you know what we can do better by just
sharing code freely amongst each other
on the weekends um and they won and I
think the reason that crypto will win is
because it can build a better product it
can be a very very fast GI Atomic State
machine that allows anyone to
participate at the speed of light and
that's going to be result in better
pricing for people better prices are
going to win customers that that's what
it comes down to
um what's the biggest misconception
about
salana um I don't know I mean I've been
replying to all of these for so long why
do you do that why why do you go on
Twitter I never go on Twitter it
sucks I again like when I moved as a kid
from the USSR
literally any anyone remembers what that
was to United States as the internet
like consumer internet was just starting
to get going it was just such a bizarre
change and I was plugged in on the
internet in like IC chat rooms and icq
and stuff and I just kind of got used to
this idea of being permanently connected
um so it's part of that demon right that
like you
can't you can't stop right you're always
trying to f something always trying to
talk to people um so I don't know yeah
so you're saying basically like it's a
curse these new Founders have merely
adopted the troll but you you were born
in it I was born in it yeah yeah um cool
well I mean let's let's uh shift gears
again um what keeps you up at
night the scariest thing in these
systems is that they're built by people
and people write bugs and sometimes you
know those bugs can be catastrophic
so that's been like the most frightening
thing about working in the space is that
you know smart contract hacks but these
could happen at the L1 infra itself and
that's the scariest thing and this is
why fire dancer has been such a big
Focus uh in the ecosystem it's just
having a second implementation of the
same protocol regardless of the TPS and
all this stuff it's awesome that we were
able to give him two goals one is build
a rebuild it but also show us how we
suck at software and make it faster um
they are able to accomplish both of
those but the most important part there
is in the performance it's literally
that it's built by different people so
the probability of the same bug
occurring in both implementations uh is
very very unlikely and the third client
is much much easier when you have two so
that's that's the scariest part that's
what keeps me up and light at night but
we're getting very close to that being
kind of done and an issue behind us and
as soon as fire dancer is on Mana to a
level where more than 33% of the network
is either running fire dancer or both
clients um in my view that's not beta
anymore I will take the beta tag off the
Explorer that runs La that Labs runs
that name is so
[Applause]
troll what do you as as fire dancer
continues work on this and maybe third
and fourth validators spin up or clients
been up and more and more people build
things what do you envision your role
evolving into 5 years into the future
six years into the future what do you
want to be
doing um I love the principal engineer
truck I see it's great like I love
talking to the super smart folks at Anza
at fire dancer with like a proposal like
a sync execution and having forcing them
to go look at it I have the
the I'm privileged that they will listen
to me they will hear me out and they
won't listen to me and do exactly what I
said they will fight back and we end up
with a better result better design so I
mean if I could be doing that 10 20
years from now I'm blessed like uh it
means like I get very lucky and salana
is keeps improving and there's more
design work and I get to do the stuff
that brought me into Engineering in the
first place cool yeah shout out to Trent
uh for taking away totally these GitHub
privileges um what one thing I also want
to ask is um you're you're super into
startups in kind of the founder
mentality or having the demon or you
know dog uh in you um a lot of people
look up to you obviously uh we were just
outside everybody you know wants to take
a picture with you and whatnot what what
what would you like to see more from the
salon ecosystem what are some words of
encouragement uh that that you'd offer
them um go build weird stuff like I
think um like as as soon as I like
landed in the US right as a kid parents
got me a computer was a penum 75 I was
trying to figure out Linux and really
got into computers and like was a nerd
and loved software and this the movie
hackers just still like burn into my
brain and the idea and the dream of
Silicon Valley where you can't start
with with an idea and go build it in
your garage that's was really really
exciting and I think that idea is now
global and crypto and the finance that
crypto creates that's Global and
borderless has really demonstrated that
you don't need Silicon Valley you don't
even need Wall Street everything can
happen on the internet in our own little
kind of e like our own world and it's
awesome and you just need Founders that
are like working on weird stuff on the
weekend and and some of it will pop that
some of it will actually take off and
become really valuable and you know
improve people's lives so just go build
stuff like the worst thing you can do is
nothing like uh there a lot of advice
and a lot of startup advice in Paul
Grahams notes and silicon valy books and
a startup or the founder needs to like
is like a shark they need to be swimming
they need to be trying things even if
you build the wrong thing it's a
learning process and and the iteration
of trying to get product Market fit and
get users and understanding them um it's
all part of the the learning process so
just go build stuff don't worry about it
don't worry about failure just like go
go do it cool uh final question I'm not
sure if you've ever been asked this you
are famous for having two coffees and a
beer what was the beer it was a kch uh a
kch I don't remember the Brand It was a
a I was in San Diego in San Diego for
about a decade and it was like ipas
everywhere and after you just get sick
of ipas at some point I don't know and
like I I switch to the cleanest crispest
beer you can get at that time was a k
yeah so um uh if you guys want to come
up with any new breakthroughs two two
cappuccinos and a k and cappuccino
specifically yeah okay cool well that's
all the time got uh please give a huge
round of applause to the legend anoli
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