Ben Ponders Gender

Summary

In this interview, Ben discusses his experiences with sexual diversity and societal attitudes towards it, from his childhood through to his professional life. He reflects on how conversations around homosexuality and transgender issues were taboo in his youth, contrasting with his later experiences in a more accepting study abroad program. Ben also shares his thoughts on the rapid changes in social consciousness, the impact of social media, and the challenges of navigating a professional environment with a zero-tolerance policy for harassment. He hopes that increased awareness and understanding will lead to greater unity and acceptance.

Takeaways

• 🏠 The interviewee's family did not express hate or prejudice towards homosexuality during his upbringing, but the topic was considered taboo.
• 🏫 In high school, the interviewee observed that being gay was not openly discussed and was somewhat ostracized, with few students identifying as such.
• 🌍 During a study abroad program, the interviewee noticed a stark contrast in attitudes towards homosexuality, where it was more accepted and not a topic of concern among peers.
• 🚹 The interviewee recalls a high school friend who was gay and felt the need to date or interact with others from outside his school to avoid social stigma.
• 💼 In the professional realm, the interviewee's company enforces a strict LGBTQ+ policy, emphasizing a zero-tolerance approach to harassment and promoting an inclusive workplace.
• 📢 An incident where a colleague was fired for using a term considered derogatory, even when recounting a personal story, highlighted the strictness of the company's policy and the potential for misunderstandings.
• 📱 The interviewee speculates that the current generation of high school students likely has a different experience with sexuality due to increased access to information and more open conversations at home.
• 🔍 There is a noted shift in social consciousness around sexuality, with the interviewee reflecting on his own past and present views, indicating a personal evolution.
• 🌐 The interviewee hopes that the growing awareness and acceptance of diverse sexualities will contribute to a more unified society, focusing on commonalities rather than differences.
• 🚀 The interview concludes with an optimistic view of the future, where the interviewee envisions a society that has moved past petty differences to achieve great things together.

Q & A

What was the general attitude towards homosexuality during Ben's childhood?

During Ben's childhood, there was no hateful or spiteful language towards homosexuality. His family did not express negative views about gay people, and the topic was not prevalent in their conversations.

How did Ben's school environment differ from his home in terms of discussing sexual diversity?

At school, there was a more conservative environment where being gay was not openly discussed, and there was a tendency to not socialize with openly gay students, unlike the more open attitude at home.

What was Ben's experience with sexual diversity during his study abroad program in Oxford?

Ben found that close to half of the males in his study abroad program were homosexual, and there was no discrimination or judgment from the staff or other students, unlike his high school experience.

How has social media influenced the awareness and acceptance of sexual diversity according to Ben?

Ben believes that social media has played a significant role in advancing social consciousness and awareness of sexual diversity, both positively and negatively, by providing immediate access to information and a platform for discussion.

What was the company policy regarding LGBTQIA+ issues that Ben encountered in his professional workplace?

Ben's workplace had a zero-tolerance policy for harassment and any form of discrimination, with mandatory meetings and guest speakers to promote an open and inclusive environment.

Can you describe the incident that led to a colleague's termination due to a violation of the company's LGBTQIA+ policy?

A colleague was fired for using a derogatory term, 'transformer,' during a casual Zoom conversation, which was overheard and reported, leading to her termination despite her intention not being to offend.

How did the incident of the colleague's termination affect Ben?

The incident was alarming and terrifying for Ben, making him feel that he could easily offend someone without knowing it and face severe consequences, even in a professional setting.

What is Ben's opinion on the necessity of a more flexible policy regarding LGBTQIA+ issues in the workplace?

Ben feels that while a zero-tolerance policy is in place for a good reason, there should be some flexibility to handle grievances at a more personal level to avoid misunderstandings and promote reconciliation.

How has Ben's personal perspective on sexuality evolved from his childhood to adulthood?

Ben's perspective has evolved from a time when he and his friends would avoid certain types of pornography to a more mature and accepting view of different sexual orientations and gender identities.

What does Ben hope for the future in terms of social consciousness and unity?

Ben hopes that the evolution of social consciousness will lead to greater unity among people, setting aside petty differences, and working together towards common goals such as colonizing Mars or becoming less dependent on fossil fuels.

Outlines

00:00

🏠 Family and School Attitudes on Sexual Diversity

The speaker reflects on their upbringing and the attitudes towards sexual diversity and homosexuality during their childhood. They mention that their family did not express hateful language towards the LGBTQ+ community, and while the topic of transsexuality was not prevalent, there was no direct prejudice or hate at home. At school, the speaker attended a small high school in a conservative area where there was a clear social incentive not to socialize with openly gay students, though they personally did not hold any animosity towards them. The speaker also recalls a classmate who was out and guarded, only dating men from other schools to avoid social stigma.

05:02

🌍 Study Abroad Experience in Oxford

The speaker discusses their experience in a study abroad program in Oxford, England, where they noticed a stark difference in attitudes towards homosexuality. They observed that close to half of the males in the program identified as homosexual, and there was a general lack of concern or prejudice from both staff and peers. This environment contrasted sharply with their high school experience, where they felt they couldn't openly socialize with gay peers without fear of judgment. The speaker highlights the change in social attitudes and the normalization of diverse sexualities during their time abroad.

10:06

💼 Professional Workplace and LGBTQ+ Policies

The speaker transitions to discuss their professional experience with sexual diversity, noting the significant impact of social media on social advancement and the increased awareness and acceptance of different sexualities. They mention their company's LGBTQ+ policy, which is strictly enforced with zero tolerance for harassment. However, they share a concerning incident where a colleague was fired for using a term, unbeknownst to her, that was considered derogatory within the company's policy, despite her intention only being to share a personal story. This incident left the speaker feeling alarmed and cautious about the potential for unintentional policy violations.

15:07

🚨 The Impact of a Zero Tolerance Policy

In this paragraph, the speaker delves into the chilling effect the zero tolerance policy had on them and their colleagues, particularly in the context of remote work. They express concern about the potential for easily tripping over unknown boundaries and inadvertently offending someone, which could have severe professional consequences. The speaker also empathizes with the person who was offended, recognizing the complexity of balancing a strict policy with the need for understanding and growth.

20:08

🧭 Navigating the Evolving Social Landscape

The speaker ponders how young professionals and those not exposed to a broad spectrum of sexualities in their upbringing can navigate the modern professional world. They acknowledge the rapid evolution of social consciousness and the challenges it presents for individuals who were raised in an earlier 'evolutionary period.' The speaker suggests that while policies like zero tolerance are well-intended, there may be a need for more nuanced approaches that allow for education and reconciliation rather than immediate punitive action.

25:08

🔮 Envisioning the Future of Social Consciousness

In the final paragraph, the speaker is invited to speculate on the future direction of social consciousness regarding sexuality. They express a hopeful vision where increased understanding and acceptance of diverse sexualities could contribute to greater unity as a species. The speaker imagines a future where petty differences are set aside, and humanity can focus on collective achievements, such as colonizing Mars or becoming sustainable, reflecting an optimistic outlook on the role of evolving social attitudes in shaping a progressive future.

Keywords

💡Sexual diversity

Sexual diversity refers to the range of human sexuality, including different sexual orientations, gender identities, and expressions. In the video, the concept is discussed in the context of societal attitudes and personal experiences. The interviewee recalls a time when sexual diversity was not openly discussed, particularly in their childhood and high school years, indicating a shift towards more open conversations in the present.

💡Homosexuality

Homosexuality is a sexual orientation where an individual is attracted to people of the same sex. The script mentions that while the interviewee did not experience hateful language towards homosexuals in their family, the topic was considered taboo and not frequently discussed, reflecting broader social attitudes at the time.

💡Transsexual

Transsexual is a term often used to describe individuals who transition from one gender to another, typically involving medical interventions. The interviewee notes that the concept of transsexuality was not prevalent in their high school conversations, indicating a lack of awareness or discussion on the topic during their upbringing.

💡Taboo

A taboo is a social or cultural prohibition or restriction on a particular practice or behavior. In the video, the interviewee describes how topics related to sexual diversity, such as homosexuality and transsexuality, were considered taboo in their family and school environment, suggesting they were not openly discussed or accepted.

💡Study abroad

Study abroad programs allow students to study in a different country for a period of time. The interviewee participated in a study abroad program in Oxford, England, where they observed a more accepting environment towards sexual diversity compared to their hometown, highlighting a cultural difference in attitudes towards sexuality.

💡Social media

Social media refers to online platforms that allow users to create and share content or participate in social networking. The video discusses how social media has played a role in advancing social consciousness, particularly in terms of sexual diversity, by providing a platform for discussion and visibility for different sexual orientations and gender identities.

💡LGBTQIA+ policy

LGBTQIA+ policies are workplace guidelines designed to protect and support individuals who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, intersex, asexual, and other sexual orientations and gender identities. The interviewee mentions their company's LGBTQIA+ policy, which includes zero tolerance for harassment, reflecting a more inclusive and supportive work environment.

💡Zero tolerance

Zero tolerance is a policy that mandates strict punishment for specific offenses, with no leniency or exceptions. In the context of the video, a zero tolerance policy towards harassment was mentioned, which led to the firing of an employee for using a derogatory term, even if it was not intended as an insult, indicating the strictness of the policy.

💡Bisexuality

Bisexuality is a sexual orientation where an individual is attracted to people of more than one gender. The interviewee recounts a story about a bisexual colleague who was fired for using a term that was considered offensive, demonstrating the complexities and sensitivities around language and identity in the workplace.

💡Professional space

A professional space refers to an environment where people work or conduct business. The video discusses how the treatment of sexual diversity has evolved in professional spaces, with a shift towards more inclusive policies and attitudes, although challenges remain in navigating these changes.

💡Social consciousness

Social consciousness refers to the awareness of and sensitivity towards societal issues, including those related to sexuality and gender. The interviewee reflects on the evolution of social consciousness, noting how attitudes towards sexual diversity have changed over time, and expressing hope for continued progress towards unity and acceptance.

Highlights

Ben discusses his family's attitudes towards sexual diversity during his upbringing, noting the absence of hateful language.

Ben recalls the taboo nature of transsexuality during his high school years and the lack of conversation on the topic.

In high school, Ben observed social incentives that discouraged interaction with openly gay students.

Ben shares an anecdote about a gay student on the debate team who sought safety through distance by dating outside his school.

During a study abroad program, Ben experienced a more accepting environment where homosexuality was not a concern among peers.

Ben contrasts his high school's social dynamics with the inclusive atmosphere at Oxford, where sexual diversity was openly accepted.

Ben reflects on the rapid changes in societal attitudes towards sexual diversity from his high school days to the present.

Ben acknowledges the role of social media in advancing social consciousness and the challenges of adapting to new social norms.

Ben describes his company's LGBTQIA+ policy and the mandatory training sessions to foster an open and inclusive workplace.

A colleague's firing for using a derogatory term unintentionally highlights the zero-tolerance policy and its implications.

Ben expresses concern over the potential for inadvertently violating social norms due to a lack of awareness.

Ben and the interviewer discuss the importance of navigating social changes and the need for policies that allow for learning and adaptation.

Ben shares a personal story from his adolescence that reflects the evolving attitudes towards sexuality.

The conversation turns to the potential differences in experiences for current high school students compared to Ben's generation.

Ben speculates on the future of social consciousness and expresses hope for unity and overcoming differences.

The interview concludes with Ben's hopeful vision for a future where society moves towards greater unity and acceptance.

Transcripts

[Music]

ben thanks very much for coming to

talking with me today about all things

sex and gender and and maybe a place for

us to start is to talk about you know

when you were being raised in your

family what were the prevailing

attitudes about sexual diversity about

homosexuality for example right um

i mean you know it's you know i had to

think back um

you know was raised um it wasn't there

was never really any like hateful or

like spiteful language you know i you

know my my mother and did get divorced

twice between uh fifth grade and uh

tenth grade so there was you know that

element of um

i guess you could call it or i guess you

know a marriage right or the decaying of

one or two but there was never any like

you know gay people or homosexualities

bad or this and that

to be honest

as a child and even really into high

school the transsexual

that was not really

a prevalent conversation okay at least

in my world okay um and i you know i was

i liked you know i considered myself

quite studious in high school

so i mean you would hear this and that

but it was not like a national

conversation okay so i never would be

like you know hey mom what about bruce

jenner that wasn't a conversation sure

that i ever had with my mom um boy if

things changed

of course i mean i you know i mean

especially you know having kids now i

can understand that being but

homosexuality

certainly was okay um

i you know i'm just thinking back now on

like you know a dinner conversation here

and there you know my mom is not a

hateful spiteful woman toward the

homosexual community

um but it was a very i just recall it

being taboo i said

like you know you knew there might have

been like the one or two

gay not to use that offensively but the

gay kid in high school okay and i didn't

you know i did not avoid them or

anything like that um but there really

wasn't a whole lot of

conversation in the home about what this

is

and you know what it there really wasn't

always a sense that it was taboo

territory yes but no direct stereotypes

or prejudice or hate

at home and then how about at school um

at school that was actually kind of

interesting um

you know it would be

there was obviously like the water you

know and i went to a relatively small

high school

um i'd say there were about 300 students

per grade 10th 11th and 12th so about a

thousand students give or take

um in a more conservative part of the

country um

you know there was always like the one

or two

like you know out of the closet who were

gay and i mean i didn't think that they

were like any less human

but it was almost like you would you

know i you you would you were

incentivized almost

amongst peers

to

not socialize with them i see

because what what's the because they

you know liked boys i see okay so there

was like the third rail you just started

right away and um and just i guess not

to go not to kind of veer off target but

lesbian you know lesbians and lesbianism

wasn't really even

on our radar right and not so visible

probably i mean the gay bull probably

more clearly exactly and it was actually

kind of interesting i actually now that

you mentioned it i do recall

that um

he'll go unnamed but he was actually on

the debate team he was a year older than

me

um

he was you know out of the closet as we

would say and you know i mean i would

engage with him we were on the debate

team but he felt so

almost

i don't even know the right word but so

guarded that he would only interact

sexually or date men from other schools

even though there was like another gay

student or two at our high school

they it was like you know they didn't

want to intensify

that

social positioning if that makes sense

so you sought safety through distance

exactly so he would be like oh there's a

height you know i know this guy at this

high school or

older men i remember him and i talked

one night at a hotel in a debate

tournament

but um

so yeah that was pretty much my only

exposure to any sort of alternate

sexuality

than heterosexuality but now you you

also had an experience where you did an

overseas thing and you immersed in a

different educational environment um in

what way was that similar to or

different from well it was quite

different um you know this was so this

was essentially a study abroad program

for high school students

um and it would be like a few from

different high schools higher performing

students

and we did a trip it was to oxford

england after university okay it was

great you know got to see where

you know hillary and

bill met christ church college and they

were rhodes scholars and did some

studying there but

and i would say close to half of the

males that were on this study abroad

program were homosexual

no one cared

the the staff

us

and i'm not you know i'm not trying to

be demeaning or insinuate that you know

people who are of a certain social group

in high school are less accepting than

others but that was kind of the case

interesting and so like i was actually

you know like i didn't feel weird like

eating lunch with them or walking to

class

just because it was just you know being

me but it must have felt weird to not

feel weird because you'd been steeped in

this

culture in which

you did right really couldn't be the one

who would eat lunch with where i'd be in

high school and i'd see like him you

know i'd see a friend eating alone

because he was gay

and then i you know i i mean i'm not a

perfect soul but i would kind of be like

man i kind of want to go sit with him

like i know him but then like you know i

would be judged by my peers

now you know i was a 15 16 year old kid

sure nowadays i would have told them all

to go [ __ ] themselves right right but

at that time you know i didn't have that

luxury you look back on it you see that

you were the sudden right but then i was

you know finished up a class at oxford

and went and had lunch with two

homosexual guys and we just laughed and

joked and played frisbee in a field it

was just fine

so this so this is really interesting

because um this is this is not like it

was in the 1950s right so i mean this

this is in the like i can't imagine

this would this would have been

late to i mean 2010

2009 okay so and now look at the change

between then

and now

where

you know what man their rights and

privileges were not protected at that

time in fact they were almost in an out

group if you were expressing sexual

diversity

i think in our group's a great way to

put it it was just like they were i

don't think they were being like rounded

up and like you know ostracized but

they weren't out group but there was

certainly like a

let's almost just ignore it kind of

thing

and so we fast forward now and you find

yourself

long out of high school and but now

you're in a professional space

and and in this professional space do

you see um differences in the way in

which

sexual diversity is treated or regarded

in your professional workplace

absolutely um i mean

just

to sort of preface it i feel like social

media alone

has

infected

and for positive and negative are

advancement

as a species socially

like

you know i mean and sure there were so

you know i had you know there were cell

phones when i was in high school but not

the access to information the immediacy

of social media was not anything like it

yeah and so

nowadays absolutely and i think it's a

wonderful thing for people i mean i

can't imagine you know feeling different

and being you know

force in a closet

for lack of a better phrase for how you

feel and having to hide that so i do

think it's a wonderful thing

um but it just it all happened so fast

to go from like where i was like from

the few anecdotes i shared in high

school to now

where i almost feel and rightfully so

that a lot of these different

sexualities and

um life choices etc

are almost put on a pedestal i see okay

and i'm not insinuating at all they're

like more or less but i do think that

after having been deprived rights and

you know dignity for so long we do need

to raise awareness of it and i just

think the advancement of social media

propagated that

so in the workplace at your fingertips

you have access to the world right oh

gosh and and i i i honestly feel like a

collective sense of empathy came with

that

which i think is a wonderful thing

interesting i mean i can't imagine

feeling like a transsexual person feels

50 years ago right like

my god right like what do you do right i

mean that's i mean i couldn't even

imagine that deep undercover and so to

go to your question

in a professional workplace i work for a

wonderful company

they um have you know fully enforced and

um

[Music]

i guess enforces the right word but and

put into place a uh lgbtqia plus policy

there were mandatory zoo meetings

and um you know guest speakers and it

was made very clear that it would be a

zero tolerance workplace for any form of

harassment any insinuation

of

just any anything that would make anyone

feel uncomfortable i see okay they

wanted to be a completely open

work workplace which i mean there's

nothing wrong with it right

um

but i did have an experience uh about

six months ago so we were remote working

which has

as we all know has provided its own

benefits and challenges

and um

you know you there's group zooms that

you can join where like you know you

you'll be working and there's people

doing this and that and they'll drop

down

kind of to imitate the social structure

of like the water cooler right quote

unquote sure um

and very good friend of mine you know we

were peers

i kind of stayed in my lane and you know

i would just you know i would join zoom

meetings that i had to perform my tasks

and um her and i would zoom together

especially if we were working later

nights in operations

and

she was bisexual uh she owned her own

home she had a daughter from a

previous relationship

and you know we just kind of got to know

each other through zoom and

she sent me a text one day saying that

she'd been fired and i was like wow

i was like oh my gosh i was like what

you know what happened like

you know and

um it was explained to me that she was

fired

by

violating this company's lgbtqia plus

policy and what led

um

again i did not have access to the

direct hr

what exactly occurred but she

i trust her and she told me she called

me crying

and she told me the story essentially um

she was in one of these general zooms

and you know it was

it was late at night

and um you know she was telling a story

to several of the people in the zoo

about how

um her sister's ex-boyfriend

used to mock her for being bisexual

and she had never gone considered going

through uh physiological change or

hormone treatment

but he used to call her the he called

her the transformer transformer that's

the word that he and so she was

recanting this not recanting him that's

the wrong word but she was

you know

we're calling this story

and apparently

um

somebody had joined this general zoo

she said

she she says i remember the four or five

people that i was telling the story to

and

this she used a derogatory term which i

did not even know

was a derogatory term transformer like i

mean i even like i mean i i even like i

almost cracked the joke i was like you

mean optimus prime like you know like

the

from the michael bay movies like

i mean and i was just like oh my gosh

and she says that's why and she wrote a

letter to the company

in an email format just saying

look i'm a bisexual woman like i was

this is what happened they just it was a

zero tolerance policy and they said that

we you know they we apologize we

understand things may have been taken

out of context

but

somebody heard this term

and they were offended wow even though

she wasn't applying it as a stereotype

towards somebody i mean she she

literally said she goes why in the hell

she had a really thick country accent

why in the hell would i ever call

anybody that right she said i was

telling a story about my piece of [ __ ]

sister's ex-boyfriend and

she was fired my goodness

and it was alarming now that must have

sent a chilling effect through

the office or the company in some way

shape or form um i will say

it is a relatively large company yeah

close to 14 1500 employees but

um

the work from home format i really think

dilutes

and weakens that ripple effect because

you're really just a little screen and a

zoom sure and you're just a number on

our performance chart but you knew her

and you interact oh gosh i mean what

impact did it have on you

terrifying

and not even to be dramatic it was just

terrifying as i mean

i was just like wow like i didn't even

know

for

just just to get base one

for you without even getting into like

the political and social ramifications i

did not even know

that that was a derogatory term yeah

so that makes you feel like you could

hit a tripwire pretty easily and without

even knowing it

yeah i mean it i mean it was i mean you

know just i i literally made me i was

just like wow i did not even know that

was i mean and i'll equate it to this

it would be like going through life

without knowing that the n-word was

derogatory to african-americans and

people of african descent

[Music]

that's that's literally made me feel

that stupid almost right and aloof right

and so i was just like wow

and

kind of you know

that being said though like you know is

the zero tolerance policy obviously is

in place for a good reason right

but

i just it just kind of was just like man

to put something in place and i

understand that sexuality is complex

and i can't even begin to understand

you know the pain and you know what

people go through to really feel

comfortable who they are

but

it needs to be able to bend i almost

feel

and i mean you know being a you know

white heterosexual male

i you know i don't know if i'm in a

place to create or dictate policy on

that but to make something so rigid

i just i don't know it was just kind of

scary well i can understand that i get

sick it introduces an element of being

vulnerable and vulnerability right

like uh you mean even to the point where

i'm just like do i even want like want

to go back to the office like what if i

somehow offended someone and didn't even

know i offended them and then my career

or this and that

um and so yeah that's that was kind of a

a little bit of an alarming story yeah

yeah and i feel also i feel bad for the

person who got the feeling sir yeah i

hope that it was not you know a

malicious uh d but they clearly were

offended by it and

i hate that that occurred but

i i mean i would like you know i'd like

to ask you a question like what do you

think about how can young professionals

or people that we're not necessarily

raised in this broad spectrum of

sexualities how can we navigate the

professional world

well it's confident it's interesting

hasn't it been because

that's really that's really a very

kind of astute you know observation that

we

there's a grinding there there's the

evolution of social consciousness that

you alluded to

and yet you have people that were born

in a sense in earlier evolutionary

periods which may have only been 5 or 10

or 15 or 20 years ago so there's the

inevitable grinding of the gears

as you as we all experience this shift

and what you're calling attention to is

the fact that there are very there's

very real pain and very real costs

associated with that transition of

course it doesn't just come full blown

given to us we kind of you know work our

way through

the the muck as we as we kind of feel

our way through it across time right

and that's i i i can see how that would

introduce tremendous you almost would

like to have

some alternative

you know hr policy where the grievance

could be

handled at the level of

you know a meeting and interaction

coming to terms a reconciliation in some

way shape or form because these are

things you're going to be bumping into

in life

for the foreseeable future yeah um no i

mean i completely agree and it's um

you know sometimes you have to run

before you can walk i guess yeah um but

it's uh it's a very interesting thing

but it's just like

i mean i'm you know i'm 28 years old and

when i was being raised like the idea of

like a

woman transitioning to a man or vice

versa or any of these plethora

of

you know tendencies and livelihoods and

whatever

that was never even like it was never

even like a remote idea right in my

brain as a child i have no problem with

it right

absolutely not live your life love who

you want to love don't hurt anybody

but at the same time i just feel

handicapped yeah well you had no

experience right really and now you're

thrust into a

diverse world lacking the kind of

experience and yet experience experience

any kind of [ __ ] and a colleague of mine

was fired

for using a term

which i now understand is not okay to

use sure

but i had no idea

that it was even

and then you have to wonder how many

more of those are out there i know what

if i don't if i say the wrong word in a

zoom call and i offend

a certain collection of people

anyone i know

anyone

and in some ways you may be even more

ripe for it because you say you're a

cisgendered white male

i mean she was a bisexual woman

the source doesn't matter if somebody is

uncomfortable with

then the policy gets applied absolutely

well very interesting and so you started

off by talking about the relative

homogeneity

uh in when you were in high school

not that long ago

so and then the evolution of social

consciousness so let's imagine the

thought experiment that we're dipping

back into that high school today okay

you know 10 or 15 years later

what

what

i actually you know i didn't interrupt

you but actually something just popped

in my head i actually think i might be

able to give you a little bit of an

interesting insight okay um

i mean you know just not to be too

graphic but i remember like when i first

began masturbating uh is that okay to

talk about sure absolutely um you know

it was like i had a friend's house i was

like in fifth or sixth grade we only

watched lesbian porn and if we didn't do

it together we would like go in a

separate room oh really because like

having can we talk about this is that

okay sure absolutely but i'll remember

this because like you know you didn't

want to see the penis that was gay oh

and so we would watch like you know like

lesbian porn

and then i i've never forgotten that

interesting and it was not like no one

told us to do that right right right no

one said this it was just like

and so we were like you know young you

know

you know sixth seventh graders and we

would just be like we would just watch

lesbian porn and now we would never

really do it together

but like we would like to have a

conversation like oh man did you see

this video right right right and it was

always lesbian porn

no penis is allowed it wasn't like i

mean there wasn't like a rule like we

didn't have like a charter but i'll

never forget that it was just like it

was like a almost

i can't use the word taboo but yeah

i think it's doesn't it feel looking

back on it now like a little oh now if i

watch a porno i don't care if it's

penises

that might be preferable

so i guess i've grown up a little bit

but no i actually did remember that like

the first it was always like lesbian

porn

because seeing the penis was like a

weakness or it was like a sign of

homosexuality i'll never forget that's

like homophobia in a way

but like not i mean homophobia but like

not purposeful right like almost like

this like

not i mean like transcendent like it was

just like oh like you can't

liking a penis is bad sort of thing

right right uh anyway i know that would

kind of went off that was then this is

now right

so that's a great example of kind of the

the evolution of social consciousness

and it's a direct relationship to you

right and do you think that do you think

the kids in in um in high school now

have a different kind of experience or

do you feel like they they pretty much

preserved and encapsulated the kind of

experience that you had

wouldn't that be interesting to know i

don't know i mean i

i can't imagine

with i mean

i remember cell phones

i i i'm not i'm not changing subjects

but i'm getting somewhere with this but

cell phones being like an issue when i

was in high school sure and especially

being a child of divorce i had a cell

phone since i was in like fourth grade i

was like one of the first kids

um

and like i just remember like you know

like the texting and like it was like an

issue and so now

i don't know i don't i'm not friends

with any high schoolers particularly

you know i don't like hang out with high

school students i think

no um but i actually have been reading

some things like you'll see every now

and then like a high school teacher

maybe saying something inappropriate or

doing this and that and like students

filming it

and i've also read where like some high

school teachers have a no cell phone

policy and so they'll have this they'll

have like a cubby of like like like 30

of the little cubbies outside of the

high school door

you have to put your phone in there so

to get back to your question

our high school students are our sixth

graders only

masturbating to lesbian porn i don't

know but i will say i do think that

they have a lot more access to

information sure i think that parents

are having a lot more

conversations yeah

with their children earlier more open

yet i mean there's a big the the world

while the world gets bigger it gets

smaller that's an interesting point say

say that again while the world gets

bigger it gets smaller

so and i just feel like you know maybe

at this if i was a 16 or 17 year old i

might have talked to my parents about

alternate sexuality sure you know maybe

some

kids might not feel the need

to

hide who they are who they are right um

but

i don't know i i really think it would

be interesting

to

maybe interview or you know get involved

with um guidance counselors and kind of

gauge

where

you know the 16 year olds are now yeah

and no doubt anybody who's been just

like anybody who's been in a teaching

career for 20 or 30 or 40 years has seen

tremendous change i couldn't imagine

being a teacher

like from then to now it's hard to

imagine um so let me ask you ben where

is this heading

where is he saying if we fast forward

another 10 years or 20 years

what if you know this is

the opportunity for you to play

nostradamus

with this evolution of social

consciousness is leading us in what

direction to what destination do you

think

it's an interesting question doc um

i hope

well

i hope it helps us unite as a

species um

i you know um

i

don't think home a lot

i just feel that there's just so many

things throughout history and

you know short and long term have

divided us land wealth

race gender

all these things we have used to

perpetuate this illusion that we're

different

and a lot of those boundaries i feel

have been conquered

not all

some have just been weakened some still

stand calm

um

but i do hope that

this greater thinking for how you

phrased it this greater consciousness of

a society

i hope that it can propagate us to unite

and maybe put aside some petty

differences and you know accomplish

wonders whether whether that's colonize

mars

um you know maybe

become uh

you know no longer dependent on fossil

fuels or you know i know i'm getting

kind of caught off guard but i hope that

these issues of sexuality and in

realizing that we're all intrinsic

and that we all are different

and we have to be okay with that i would

hope that maybe we could do something

good with it

ben it's a very affirming and hopeful

kind of image of the future and i

appreciate you sharing that and i share

with you the hope that

we move toward greater unity as we move

across time and i appreciate your

courage and candor in coming and talking

with me today about all things sex and

gender absolutely