Prospecting Best Practices with James Muir

Summary

In this interview, John Golem speaks with James Mir, founding CEO of Best Practice International and author of 'The Perfect Close', about the challenges of sales prospecting and the power of referrals. They discuss how marketing message overload and shrinking attention spans have made prospecting harder. Mir emphasizes the effectiveness of referrals, suggesting that salespeople should systematically ask for them and provide specific names to increase the likelihood of success. He also shares insights from his upcoming book, highlighting that referrals lead to higher conversion rates and customer lifetime value, and that salespeople who actively seek referrals can significantly increase their earnings.

Takeaways

• 🌟 Prospecting has become more challenging due to marketing message overload, with individuals exposed to approximately 10,000 sales messages daily.
• 🐠 Attention spans are decreasing; a British study revealed we switch screens 21 times an hour, and Microsoft found our attention span is now shorter than a goldfish's, at 8 seconds.
• 🔍 To stand out, focus on four high-leverage areas often neglected: Market (targeting the right customers), Messaging (ensuring relevance), Medium (using effective channels), and Motivation (aligning sales team incentives).
• 🗣️ Referrals are a powerful, yet underutilized, channel for sales. They significantly outperform other channels in converting leads to opportunities.
• 📈 Referrals not only convert better but also lead to higher customer lifetime value, with referred customers spending on average 133% more than non-referred ones.
• 🤝 Building a systematic process for asking for referrals is crucial. This includes doing research to identify potential connections a client may have and asking for an introduction to specific individuals.
• 💼 Salespeople who actively seek referrals can earn between 400 to 500% more than those who do not, highlighting the financial benefits of leveraging this channel.
• 📊 Referrals are a trusted source, with around 90% of buying decisions involving some form of referral, reflecting a societal trend towards peer recommendations over sales pitches.
• 📈 Salespeople should not wait until they feel they've 'earned' the right to ask for referrals; the best time is often immediately after a sale when the customer is most excited and satisfied.
• 📚 James Mir's upcoming book, due in December, will delve deeper into the strategies and tactics for maximizing the effectiveness of referral sales.

Q & A

What is the main challenge in prospecting today according to James Mir?

The main challenge in prospecting today is marketing message overload, with people being exposed to around 10,000 sales, marketing, and branding messages every day, leading to defenses being built up to protect their time.

How has the human attention span changed recently, and how does it affect prospecting?

The human attention span has decreased, with a British study indicating that people switch screens on their computers about 21 times an hour, and Microsoft claiming our attention span is now about 8 seconds, less than that of a goldfish. This means that when connected, there's a very narrow window to get a message across in prospecting.

What are the four high-leverage areas that are often neglected in sales according to James Mir?

The four high-leverage areas that are often neglected in sales are Market (targeting the right customers), Messaging (ensuring the message is relevant), Medium (the channels used), and Motivation.

Why are referrals considered the most effective channel in sales?

Referrals are considered the most effective channel because they have a significantly higher conversion rate from lead to opportunity compared to other channels like seminars, networking, webinars, and cold calling.

What is the common mistake people make when asking for referrals, according to the discussion?

A common mistake is asking customers on the spot for referrals without providing context or specific names, which puts the customer in a difficult position to think of someone immediately.

How can salespeople prepare before asking for referrals to increase their chances of success?

Salespeople can prepare by researching potential referrals using tools like LinkedIn or society rosters to identify specific individuals the customer might know, making the request for an introduction more targeted and less burdensome for the customer.

What is the importance of being systematic when asking for referrals?

Being systematic in asking for referrals ensures that it becomes a regular part of the sales process, increasing the chances of receiving quality referrals and leveraging this highly effective channel consistently.

Why is it beneficial for salespeople to create connections with their clients' networks?

Creating connections with clients' networks allows salespeople to leverage their clients' relationships for referrals, expanding their reach and potential for new business opportunities.

What is the significance of the timing when asking for referrals after a sale, as discussed in the interview?

The best time to ask for referrals is immediately after a sale when the customer is excited and satisfied, as this positive experience can lead to high-quality referrals and helps fill the sales pipeline faster.

How do referred customers compare to non-referred customers in terms of value and behavior?

Referred customers tend to spend 133% more and have a lifetime value that is 16-25% higher than non-referred customers. They also accelerate the sales process due to the built-in trust and endorsement from the referral.

What is the impact of actively seeking referrals on a salesperson's earnings?

Salespeople who actively seek referrals can earn between four and five times more than those who do not, highlighting the effectiveness of referrals as a sales channel.

Outlines

00:00

🌞 Introduction to Sales Prospecting and Referrals

John Golem, from Sales Pop and Pipeliner CRM, interviews James Mir, the CEO of Best Practice International and author of 'The Perfect Close', about sales prospecting and referrals. The conversation begins with light-hearted banter about the sunny weather in San Diego and Salt Lake City. James discusses the challenges of modern prospecting, highlighting marketing message overload and shrinking attention spans as key factors making it harder to connect with potential clients. He emphasizes the importance of standing out in a crowded market and getting referrals, which are critical for sales success.

05:02

📈 The Power of Referrals in Sales

James Mir explains why referrals are the most effective channel for sales, outperforming other methods like seminars, networking, and cold calling. He points out that while referrals are recognized as the best channel, many salespeople overlook them due to forgetfulness or lack of a systematic approach. James suggests creating a process for asking for referrals and shares insights from his research, including the importance of asking for introductions in a specific and non-invasive way. He also addresses common concerns like lack of confidence and fear of asking the wrong way.

10:05

🤝 Maximizing Referrals Through Strategic Approaches

The discussion continues with strategies to maximize the referral channel. James emphasizes the importance of doing the research to identify the right person to ask for an introduction and the timing of asking for referrals. He shares his experience from complex B2B sales, where asking for referrals immediately after closing a deal can be highly effective. James also talks about the value of keeping clients in the loop and turning them into champions who continuously provide introductions.

15:05

📊 Data-Driven Insights on Referrals and Sales Success

James shares compelling data on the conversion rates and sales success linked to referrals, stating that referrals lead to higher conversion rates and that referred customers spend more and have a higher lifetime value. He also reveals that salespeople who actively seek referrals earn significantly more than those who do not. The conversation touches on the importance of not getting caught up in the debate over lead attribution and the value of leveraging referrals to accelerate the sales process and reduce competition.

20:06

🔍 Techniques for Building a Robust Referral System

The final paragraph focuses on techniques to build a robust referral system. James suggests creating environments where sales teams can connect with clients and leverage their networks. He advises against restricting sales interactions with clients, as it limits the use of the most effective prospecting channel. James also discusses the importance of confidence in one's product and the role of referrals in building trust with potential customers. He ends with a teaser about his upcoming book and invites viewers to connect with him for more insights.

Keywords

💡Prospecting

Prospecting refers to the process of searching for new clients or customers, often involving cold calls, networking, and other outreach methods. In the video, prospecting is described as a challenging yet critical aspect of sales, with the interviewee, James, discussing how it has become more difficult due to marketing message overload. The script mentions that traditional prospecting methods are losing effectiveness, emphasizing the need for new strategies.

💡Referrals

Referrals are recommendations from existing customers that can lead to new business opportunities. The video highlights referrals as a highly effective sales channel, with James discussing how referrals can significantly outperform other methods like cold calling or emailing. The script emphasizes the importance of systematically asking for referrals and using them to accelerate the sales process.

💡Marketing Message Overload

Marketing message overload refers to the saturation of marketing and sales messages that consumers face daily, leading to a desensitization or resistance to such communications. The script mentions that individuals are exposed to approximately 10,000 sales and marketing messages a day, which has made prospecting more challenging as people develop defenses against these messages.

💡Attention Spans

Attention spans refer to the duration for which an individual can concentrate on a task without becoming distracted. The video cites a study indicating that the average human attention span is now shorter than that of a goldfish, at about 8 seconds. This has implications for sales, as it means that when connecting with potential customers, there is a very narrow window to convey the sales message effectively.

💡Targeting

Targeting in the sales context involves identifying and focusing on the most ideal customer profiles. James discusses the importance of market targeting, emphasizing that understanding and focusing on the ideal client is crucial for effective sales. The script suggests that targeting the right accounts is a high-leverage activity that can significantly impact sales outcomes.

💡Messaging

Messaging in sales refers to the content and delivery of the sales pitch or communication to potential customers. The video stresses the importance of crafting relevant and compelling messages that resonate with the target audience. Effective messaging is highlighted as a key factor in converting leads into opportunities.

💡Medium

In the context of the video, medium refers to the channels or methods used to reach potential customers, such as seminars, networking events, or cold calls. The discussion points out that referrals as a medium significantly outperform other channels in terms of lead conversion rates, making it a crucial strategy for sales teams.

💡Systematic Referral Process

A systematic referral process is a structured approach to consistently asking for and leveraging referrals from existing customers. The video emphasizes the need for a process to ensure that referrals are not overlooked or forgotten. James suggests that creating such a system is essential for maximizing the effectiveness of the referral channel.

💡Customer Champions

Customer champions are loyal customers who actively promote a product or service to others. The video suggests that by effectively using referrals, salespeople can turn customers into champions who will consistently introduce them to new potential clients. This concept is tied to the idea of creating a strong referral network that can continuously generate new leads.

💡Lead Attribution

Lead attribution is the process of identifying the source of a lead or customer. The video discusses a personal experience where the majority of leads were traced back to referrals, highlighting the importance of recognizing and leveraging the influence of existing customers in generating new business.

Highlights

James Mir, founding CEO of Best Practice International, discusses the challenges of sales prospecting and the importance of referrals.

Prospecting is becoming harder due to marketing message overload, with individuals exposed to approximately 10,000 messages daily.

Human attention spans are decreasing, with an average of 8 seconds, shorter than a goldfish's.

Differentiating in sales requires focusing on high-leverage areas that are often neglected, such as targeting the right market.

Referrals as a sales channel significantly outperform other methods, with much higher conversion rates.

Creating a systematic process for asking for referrals is essential for sales success.

Lack of confidence and incorrect asking methods are common barriers to obtaining referrals.

Researching potential referrals beforehand and asking for specific introductions increases success rates.

Referrals can accelerate the sales process by providing built-in validation and often eliminating competition.

Referred customers tend to spend 133% more and have a 16-25% higher lifetime value compared to non-referred customers.

Salespeople who actively seek referrals can earn between 400-500% more than those who do not.

Referrals are a critical and often overlooked channel for lead generation in sales.

Salespeople should not wait until they feel they have 'earned' the right to ask for referrals.

Creating opportunities for clients and sales teams to connect can help leverage referral channels.

Support teams should not act as 'guardians' of clients, restricting sales engagement, as it limits the use of the most effective sales channel.

Referrals are a key dynamic in the buying process, with 90% of decisions involving some form of reference to others.

James Mir's upcoming book on referrals is expected to provide further insights into maximizing this sales channel.

Transcripts

[Music]

all right hello and welcome to another

expert inside interview my name is John

Golem from sales pop online sales

magazine and pipeliner

CRM joining you as usual from a sunny

San Diego not a cloud in the sky today

and today I am joined by James Mir who

is down in lovely Salt Lake City how you

doing James very good very good we have

a little sun today so we're just getting

through the winter h excellent and James

is a founding CEO of best practice

International and the bestselling author

of the number one book on closing sales

the perfect clo and what we wanted to

talk about today is a subject that's

very very dear to a lot of people's

heart and that's

prospecting and getting referrals

prospecting I love just saying that word

because it bring people in a cold sweat

or it's Friday please don't mention that

word prospecting um but uh James so how

has we'll talk about referrals but how

has prospecting itself changed in the

last number of years oh it's definitely

getting harder definitely getting harder

um and if you ask me why that was

there's a ton of things but probably the

number one driver behind what makes

prospecting harder today than it was a

few years ago is marketing message

overload and what the latest data shows

is that we're all all of us getting

exposed to somewhere around 10,000 sales

marketing and branding messages every

single day and so you you just don't get

hit with that many many messages every

day without building up some defenses

and so our clients have all kinds of you

know defenses for protecting against

their U just to protect their time you

know their phone call there's tools for

protecting their social and all that

kind of stuff to keep us from getting

through to them and so that's one of the

biggest things uh that has made it

difficult another interesting thing

that's kind of relatively new is that

the data is showing is that our

attention spans uh are getting shorter

and uh the British study came out last

year that said that we're flipping our

screens on our computers about 21 times

an hour and that corroborates pretty

nicely to Microsoft's claim that our

attentions are now about 8

seconds which is a little bit less than

a goldfish and so what what that means

from a prospecting perspective is that

when we finally do get connected we got

a really really narrow window in order

to get our message across so I'd say

those are it's I mean there's certainly

a lot more drivers that are causing it

to be more challenging but those are two

of the big ones yeah I saw that thing

about the Goldfish um I referenc it in a

in a in a speech a few years ago fact

that we that we had actually dropped

below the Goldfish and at what stage did

we you know were we going to admit to

ourselves that we had gone from

Evolution into Dev

Evolution I think we're firm firmly in

on that trajectory right now um so um

the overload one that you mentioned is

is really interesting because um yeah

when people get overloaded or bombarded

their first instinct is to shut down

right and just is and so people are just

so tired of being of everybody coming at

them so what are some of the ways that

you can differentiate or stand out or

stand out from the noise what what are

some of the things you can do well you

know the the irony is if you ask that

question to most folks say hey how are

you gonna handle that challenge you want

to know what the number one answer you

get is they tell you that they're just

GNA do more more right and do you see

the irony in that right is that is that

the number one challenge is marketing

message overload and then what are we

going to do we're just going to add more

marketing and messages to mix so it's

really kind of irony uh that that's the

number one strategy so the things that

we can do is there's actually some very

good data out there that says that there

are really four areas that are high

leverage and and mostly neglected by uh

across all um sales Industries uh that

produce the best results and they kind

of fall into four categories there's

Market which is really around targeting

that is customers need need to just

spend a little time and figure out what

their most ideal client looks like and

focus on that and the reason for that is

that it's such a high leverage thing is

that any if you put garbage Accounts at

the top of your pipeline it won't matter

if you have perfect demos perfect offers

perfect negotiation anything below that

is not going to work because it's

garbage in at the top to garbage out on

the bottom so um the other is messaging

which is we is what we do say when we

finally get to a customer matters a lot

it's important that it be relevant to

them and then um medium is really about

the channels that we use and um I think

for today one of the mediums that we

want to talk about is referrals and U I

have a um I've done uh quite a bit of

research over the last few years I have

a book on referrals that's uh in the in

the works right now and what I can tell

you is that um if when you look at the

different channels that we typically use

in sales you know like um uh seminars

networking webinars inperson prospecting

St shows cold calling emailing phone all

that referrals as a channel completely

Slaughters every other channel by a

country mile by a country mile I mean

that it is so much farther away in terms

of its conversion from lead to

opportunity that it's even it's hard to

see who second place is and so go ahead

just to and just to um just to stop on

that for a moment right so and here's

the thing about referrals right is the

statistics that you just mentioned there

okay they're by far the best best um

best Channel but yet why is it that

people either they Overlook referrals or

they think it's like oh yeah James

you're my customer do you know anybody

who could also use my product and I ask

you once and I put you on the spot and

you go um not off the top of my head and

now I've said oh well that's it I've

done my I've asked everybody for

referrals and nobody's given me any I

ask that question all the time to my

clients right and almost everybody knows

that referrals as a channel is the best

channel uh and so then I ask you well

okay well so why aren't you doing it

right and so by far the number one thing

that I hear actually is that they just

forget they don't have a a system they

don't have a process and since they

don't have a process or a system that

they're following it's random right and

so the key there then that the takeaway

from anybody listening is that we'll

create a process so that you're

systematically asking for the referrals

that's the number one thing um I often

hear that people are they lack

confidence and so they don't want to ask

because they're not confid well all I

would say about that is you got to get

sold on your solution or you're never

going to be successful in sales so if

you can't get behind your product right

then probably time to switch products um

another thing that you kind of intimated

is that uh it they're worried that

they're asking in the wrong way or they

do ask in the wrong way and when they

ask in the wrong way they bomb out and

so the answer to that of course is just

ask in the right way and in a way that

won't get you rejected and um I'm we can

share that with your audience here today

but what I can tell you is I I've read

every book on referrals this out right

now and um what 90% of those books will

tell you is you're supposed to say hey

who else do you know that can buy my

stuff at some point right and what I can

tell you with me and my own teams I have

tried and failed at almost every way you

can think of of um of getting referrals

and if you do anything kind of anything

like hey who else do you know that can

buy my stuff you're gonna bomb out and

the reason for that is it that's

actually harder work to answer that

question than you might think right if I

said hey who who are all the people you

know that own a uh own a BMW right

that's hard work for for the person to

do and so the the solution is when you

go research before you ever meet the

person go research who they know and you

can use LinkedIn to do that or you can

use Society rosters to figure out who

they might know and then you walk into

that meeting with the name of the person

you want the introduction to and you

just say hey um hey John do you happen

to know you know Fred diamond and then

um with that I already know that you

know him right I saw that you guys are

connected on LinkedIn and so the

customers aren't stupid they they know

what you're going to do you're asking

for an introduction so you you'll never

get rejected if they don't if they don't

feel comfortable they will just play

stupid they'll play dumb and say oh I

got don't know that well but what

happens most of the time is they'll say

yeah absolutely I know Fred we've known

each other for a long time and then you

just ask for an introduction you don't

use the word referral uh refer the word

referral has all this baggage around it

and the other thing is uh really wrong

in most of these books is this is not

the time to get greedy and ask for

dozens of referrals yeah just go in and

ask for one make the one work and then

you can always come back to the well and

ask for another one if you do that

you'll end up creating these Champions

that will introduce you to people all

the time um a couple other things that I

hear when people say you know when I ask

them why they don't do it um one of the

things I hear a lot is that they haven't

earned it okay and here's the thing

here's the thing do definitely earn it

you should learn it you definitely

should earn it but you do not have to

wait until you've earned it in order to

ask okay my personal experience um with

complex B2B sales where really high

ticket items is that the really the best

time is actually right after you sold

the deal right right after you made the

got the contract in motion is at a high

point there's no negative feedback of

any kind that they can reference at that

point and so this is a great time to ask

for an introduction to another person

because they're kind of excited about it

and so and it fills your pipeline way

faster right you don't have to wait for

a year to have earned it before you can

ask for it so for sure definitely earn

it right I'm not saying don't earn it

but what I'm saying is you do you you

can ask now you don't have to wait um

yeah and and and what I love about that

what I love about what you just said

James is is that idea about you know

taking the work away from them because

as you said let's let's face it if you

ask me right now if I knew anybody even

with all the greatest will in the world

it's it's Friday

afternoon exactly I don't know off the

top of my head I don't know and and and

that's I think what happens is people

ask like that the other person goes I

can't think of anybody because literally

they can't think of anybody that moment

but they may you know they may at

another time if you're lucky but to your

point if you go do the work for them and

you have pinpointed the exact person and

you just ask for an introduction then

it's a no-brainer right and you're

correct after you've done the sale

you're kind of like you're on a bit of a

high like we got through this process

I've gotten the solution I want I'm

happy with the price I I loved working

with DJ all of the what a great time to

ask for an introduction yep and and

let's follow through with that right

what you want to do after you've done

that then is just keep them in the loop

right let them know what progress you're

making with the other person um and and

that that you'll end up turning that

person that give you the introduction

into a person that will continue to make

more but what we've done is taken all

the work out of it for them all we're

really looking for is the introduction

and by the way I knew this um the first

time ever bought in the states actually

the mortgage broker up in the Bay Area

uh he actually had this I mean it was

you could do this online now but he

actually had this whole org chart on his

wall of every could trace every single

referral back to where came from because

he said you know because we were

referred to him by somebody and he said

okay cool I want to be able to send that

guy a a a thank you but he had it all

tracked out so let me show you some

mind-blowing data on that okay so I

already mentioned the um the conversion

rate from from leads to Opportunities

yeah the conversion rate from

opportunities to sales is also extremely

high it's between three and 500% higher

than any other channel it's massive

right but let me tell you um some

personal experience so um I I come from

the the complex B2B sales Healthcare it

world and when I was a vpa sales for a

region I got caught up in this debate

between marketing and sales about where

the leads were coming from right and um

it totally unintentionally but anyway so

these guys were basically arguing about

the quality of leads and where they were

coming from marketing was saying things

like hey this percentage is coming from

the website and this percentage is

coming from Google um and all that kind

of stuff right and so what I did is I

actually hired someone to call and

contact every lead that came in for a

three-month period it was about a

thousand leads okay right and here's the

interesting thing what this person asked

that turned out to be really significant

is she said she would ask these guys

when she contacted me say well what made

you go to whatever the channel was to

begin with she said so if they went to

the website she say well what made you

go to the website to begin with or if

they typed name in Google she'd say well

what made you type her name in Google to

begin with and here this will just blow

your mind okay what um what we found is

that in 74% of cases we that's 740 some

leads right we could trace it back to a

person that had turned them on to us

right they'd say oh you need to check

out these guys then boom next thing you

know they're on the website or boom next

thing you know they're typing in Google

and there's a word for that in the

marketing world it's called attribution

but I would just say from a sales

perspective

don't get caught up in that what I want

to just the point of all of this is just

that um referrals as a lead Source might

be considerably more important than you

might have previously imagined because

from my perspective somewhere around 74%

of All Leads actually come from

referrals and I'm not the only one who's

come up with numbers like that um New

York Times came up with about a 65%

figure and BNI Global has come up with a

70% number and so again the the the the

takeaway from these metrics and this

experience that I personally had is just

that you may not realize it but maybe

the majority of your leads are already

coming from referrals you're just not

leveraging the channel and you're not

being systematic about trying to use

that channel in order to to create

success for your teams yeah and let's

face it uh it also helps it in many

cases helps accelerate the sales process

because let's face it you got to go

through a period in a sale where you

have to validate yourself maybe you got

to get customer references all of that

if you've come through a referral you've

already got a huge amount of validation

right there that sometimes they may

actually even shortcut that whole

process yes well first of all because

the customer didn't choose the timing of

the engagement when the customers do

that they tend to invite competitors in

right yeah right hey we're shopping for

something so I'm gonna invite all the

competitors in but when you get an

introduction you've picked the timing

and so very often there's zero

competition and you like you just said

there's a built-in reference right

there's an implied endorsement when that

introduction happens and so that makes

you right out of the shoot you're

insanely stronger than any other channel

and opportunity that you might have used

like an email or you know a cold call or

anything like that it's just much much

better so what are what are some other

um uh techniques that people can use to

maximize their referral business well so

I I think the most important thing is to

get systematic about it and that it

means to create a process for your teams

or for yourself so that you're in the

habit of doing it on a regular basis

basis it's just like any other thing if

you're doing your prospecting and your

time blocking you're devoting a certain

amount of time per day to that what I

would say is do the same thing for

referrals and it really deserves a very

important and prominent part in your um

prospecting repertoire because the

channel is so much more effective than

any other channel a couple of cool

tricks John that people can do is a lot

of times salespeople won't know their

clients I just maybe they're brand new

and they don't know the client base so

what um Executives can do to improve

that situation first the sales rep can

of course reach out to every client

within their own territory that's an

important thing but they can do things

like user groups and events where

they're trying to help their clients

educationally or whatever and then that

will create a sort of a very synergistic

type of environment where you've got

many clients in one place at one time

and that is a way for you to introduce

your team to all of them and that

creates an opportunity for us to be able

to leverage their connections right so I

would say create an environment where

you can create connections between your

clients ients and your sales team so

that your sales team can use this

channel if you're in fact I often John I

see the opposite I see the GU the

Guardians of the clients right and so

these support people will never let the

salespeople talk to the clients because

they were they're going to screw up the

relationship with the client in some way

you are shooting yourself in the foot

from a prospecting channel so bad when

you do that because that that is the

number one channel that you could

possibly be using to grow your company

and so to try to Corral your salespeople

out of contacting your customers is just

a huge huge mistake you're leaving a ton

of Leverage um on the table by um making

them use lower effective uh less

effective prospecting channels and it

goes back to what you said earlier

though uh I mean if you don't have that

much confidence in in what you've sold

and in your customer and all of that I

mean why would you put a wall around

them it's like that thing it's like when

people go well why didn't why don't you

look for um a reference now you've just

sold them the deal and and they go I I

want to I want to make sure they get

through implementation you go well okay

surely you should be confident that they

can get through implementation and then

it's well I just want to bed it down for

a little bit but it does it communicates

that you don't have the confidence

exactly right and uh there's a bunch of

other metrics around this whole area

that I think would people be surprised

um first of all whether you know it or

not your prospects are actually using

referrals of some kind in their process

they're they're talking to someone the

data is around 90% of all buying

decisions they're they're referencing

somebody else in the process in fact

that's a trend that makes prospecting

harder is that trust in us as salesp

people there's a u there's a report that

comes out every year from a company

called Edelman it's called the trust

barometer and they they analyze things

like uh countries and careers roles and

states and all that and cities and um

according to that trust barometer

salespeople 3% of society trusts

salespeople there's only one there's

only one profession that is lower than

us on the on the channel and that's

politicians that's it yeah even lawyers

are higher than us on the Trust on the

trust scale right and so what uh what

goes hand inand with that trend is so

they're preferring rather than talk to

us as sales professionals they would

prefer to go to a peer to get that

information about products and solutions

and so you can ignore that Dynamic and

try to cold call your way through it or

send tons of messages like we talked

about or you can Embrace that Dynamic

and and focus on referrals to help you

do that and when you do that though

there's wonderful data I mean you're uh

between four and 500% more likely to be

able to get your appointment when you've

leveraged a contact or some kind of

personal connection um on the value side

of the formula um referred customers

actually spend it's about 133% more than

non-referred customers the their

lifetime value is considerably higher

it's between 16 and 25% higher and my

favorite metric of all the and I could

give you metrics all day my my favorite

metric is that sales people that are

actively seeking referrals actually earn

between four and 500% more than the ones

who don't right so again obviously

because it's the most effective Channel

So for anybody listening or viewing this

did you hear that just repeat that one

again James how yeah yeah sales people

will actively seek referrals earned

between four and 500% not not 50% higher

not 100% higher between four and 500%

more than those who don't yeah so if you

want to turbocharge your earnings now

you know what to do um L James this has

been great we're coming up against the

end of our time here but I me this is

fascinating and when is the when is the

book coming out if all goes well then we

should see it around December time in

the fall fantastic well hopefully you

come back to us in December when the

when the book comes out and chat a

little bit more um all of uh all of um

the information will be in in the bio

about James and so you can contact him

and how to contact them and learn more

but before we go James give them a

little taste of what it is you do and

how they can learn more about you sure

well I just help uh complex B2B sales

organizations improve their we optimize

their sales forces we tend to focus on

those four areas that I just mentioned

which is Market message medium and

motivation those are the areas that we

focus on and um anybody that might be

interested in contacting me can reach

out to me via LinkedIn um I'm very

active on Twitter uh you can course go

to my website uh there's a ton of free

assets there in fact there's a whole

presentation that I gave around this

area and a little bit more that I did at

outbound last year that they can just

down for free and and see how um how it

all works they could get some of the at

least some of the a little bit of the

knowledge that's going to end up in the

book they could get from that

presentation yeah fantastic and um and

as you can see from from this interview

James knows the stuff so I I would

encourage you to go check him out listen

James this has been fantastic my name is

John golden sales pop online sales

magazine pipeliner CRM see for another

expert interview really soon thank you

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