Turning BTC into a Programmable Asset on Solana w/ Justin Wang (Zeus Network)
Summary
TLDRIn this episode of 'Validated', the discussion delves into the intersection of Bitcoin and the Solana universe with Zeus, a project aiming to bridge Bitcoin liquidity to Solana. Justin, the founder of Zeus, explains the concept of a 'layer 1.5' that facilitates programmability of external assets like Bitcoin on Solana, emphasizing the importance of a unified layer for usability and liquidity. The conversation explores the technical aspects of asset bridging, the future of Bitcoin on Solana, and the potential for new applications and collaborations between Bitcoin and other proof-of-work assets with Solana.
Takeaways
- 🚀 Zeus positions itself as a 'layer 1.5', aiming to bridge Bitcoin and Solana by making external assets programmable on Solana using SPNs.
- 🌉 The term 'communication layer' between Bitcoin and Solana refers to enabling transactions and asset transfers between the two ecosystems without the need for multiple layers or fragmentation.
- 🔒 Security and consensus are major focuses for Zeus, with an emphasis on non-custodial solutions and node participation in validating transactions across networks.
- 💡 The concept of 'Zeus as a layer to' is likened to a bridge for liquidity, but with a more integrated approach to maintaining the security and usability of assets across Bitcoin and Solana.
- 🤔 Concerns about layer fragmentation and liquidity issues are highlighted, with the argument that a single layer should handle transactions for long-term sustainability.
- 🔄 The technical process of transferring Bitcoin to Solana via Zeus involves depositing BTC into a tbCR address, which is then used to issue zBTC on the Solana side, guarded by a node coordination network.
- 🔑 The node coordination network (NCN) uses a threshold cryptography model, where private keys are divided and transactions require consensus among multiple nodes for validation.
- 🌐 The future vision for Zeus includes expanding the communication layer to other assets and chains, potentially enabling a wide range of applications and synthetic assets on Solana.
- 💼 The importance of a strong community and proven chain resilience is underscored, with Solana being chosen for its battle-tested performance and active community engagement.
- 🛠️ For developers interested in building on Zeus, the network is undergoing testnets with a mainnet launch planned, and there are plans for a Zeus hackathon in collaboration with Solana.
- 🔮 The discussion also touches on the broader relevance of proof-of-work assets in a proof-of-stake dominated landscape, suggesting that there's still demand and potential for these assets to be integrated into new technologies and platforms.
Q & A
What is the main focus of the discussion in the video script?
-The main focus is the intersection of Bitcoin and the Solana universe, particularly discussing the role of Zeus as a communication layer between Bitcoin and Solana.
What is the concept of 'layer 1.5' as mentioned in the script?
-The term 'layer 1.5' refers to Zeus's positioning as a hybrid between a base layer (layer 1) and a layer 2 solution, enabling external assets like Bitcoin to become programmable on Solana.
What issue does the founder of Zeus disagree with regarding layer 1 blockchains?
-The founder disagrees with the fragmentation on layer 1, arguing against the idea of multiple layers with their own consensus mechanisms, which he believes can lead to usability and liquidity issues.
How does Zeus approach the problem of liquidity fragmentation?
-Zeus aims to provide a solution that avoids liquidity fragmentation by enabling external assets to be programmable on Solana, thus maintaining a unified and liquid ecosystem.
What is the role of Apollo in the Zeus ecosystem?
-Apollo is the first application built on top of Zeus, with the mission of onboarding millions of Bitcoins through Solana, allowing for the creation of zBTC assets on the Solana network.
What is the technical process for converting Bitcoin to a usable asset on Solana via Zeus?
-Users deposit their Bitcoins into a tBTC address provided by Apollo, which then issues zBTC assets on Solana. The process is secured by a network of nodes using a threshold cryptography model.
How does the redemption process work for converting zBTC back to Bitcoin?
-Users can withdraw their zBTC through Apollo, which then uses a reserve of Bitcoin to fulfill the request, ensuring a one-to-one correspondence between zBTC and Bitcoin.
What is the significance of using Solana as a coordination layer in the Zeus ecosystem?
-Using Solana as a coordination layer allows for the validation of Bitcoin transactions on the Solana network, providing a secure and efficient way to interact with Bitcoin assets programmatically.
What are some potential future applications for the communication layer between Solana and Bitcoin?
-Future applications could include the creation of synthetic tokens, decentralized autonomous organizations (DAOs), and improved user experiences for transactions that currently rely on Bitcoin alone.
How does Zeus ensure the security of the assets deposited into its system?
-Zeus uses a node coordination network that operates on top of Solana validators, with each asset guarded by the nodes themselves, ensuring that even the Zeus Foundation cannot access the deposited assets.
What is Zeus's stance on the future of proof-of-work assets in a proof-of-stake world?
-Zeus believes that proof-of-work assets still have a place due to their security and decentralization, and aims to make these assets programmable and more integrated with proof-of-stake ecosystems like Solana.
Outlines
🔗 Introduction to Bitcoin and Solana Integration
The script begins with an introduction to the second episode of a show discussing the intersection of Bitcoin and the Solana ecosystem. The conversation focuses on Zeus, a project described as a 'layer 1.5' that aims to bridge Bitcoin with Solana, enabling external assets to become programmable on Solana. The founder of Zeus expresses disagreement with the fragmentation of layer 1 protocols and emphasizes the importance of usability and liquidity. The episode promises a deep dive into how Zeus operates as a communication layer between Bitcoin and Solana, different from traditional layer 2 solutions.
🛠️ Technical Explanation of Zeus as Layer 1.5
This paragraph delves into the technical aspects of Zeus, contrasting it with other Bitcoin layer 2 solutions that act more like sidechains with their own security mechanisms rather than being directly connected to the Bitcoin consensus. The speaker clarifies that Zeus nodes run on top of Sol validators, ensuring that assets are securely guarded without any single entity having control over the assets. The paragraph also touches on the composability of Zeus, allowing for the creation of new assets and token extensions on Solana, and the economic model where transaction fees generate revenue for the ecosystem.
🚀 Journey of Bitcoin from Bitcoin Network to Solana via Zeus
The speaker outlines the process of how Bitcoin is transferred from the Bitcoin network to be used within the Solana ecosystem through Zeus. This involves depositing Bitcoin into a tBTC address, which is then used to issue zBTC on Solana. The process is secured through a node coordination protocol that ensures no single party can access the Bitcoin, and transactions are validated across the network. The paragraph also discusses the potential for yield generation for miners and the ability to redeem zBTC back to Bitcoin, facilitated by a reserve system that prevents malicious attacks.
🌐 Future Applications and Vision for Bitcoin-Solana Communication
The script explores potential future applications for the communication layer between Bitcoin and Solana, such as the creation of synthetic assets and decentralized stablecoins collateralized by Bitcoin. It also suggests the possibility of bringing other assets like Litecoin and Dogecoin to Solana, highlighting the potential for increased utility and community engagement for these assets. The speaker envisions a future where Solana and Bitcoin can work together to create a strong ecosystem, with Zeus playing a central role in facilitating this interaction.
🤝 Collaborations and the Role of Solana in the Crypto Ecosystem
The speaker discusses the decision to use Solana as the coordination layer for Zeus and the evaluation process for this architectural choice. They emphasize Solana's resilience, social economics, and community strength as key factors in this decision. The paragraph also touches on the challenges of building a system dependent on another, the importance of speed and cost in the choice of blockchain, and the potential for Zeus to become a key player in enabling Bitcoin and other assets to interact with Solana, competing with Ethereum's Layer 2 solutions.
💡 The Relevance of Proof of Work Assets in a Proof of Stake World
This paragraph examines the role and relevance of proof of work assets like Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Dogecoin in a world increasingly dominated by proof of stake blockchains. The speaker argues that proof of work offers a decentralized consensus mechanism and has its own merits, despite the scalability and speed advantages of proof of stake. They also suggest that there is potential for these assets to be integrated into new systems and platforms, maintaining their value and utility in the evolving crypto landscape.
🌟 Upcoming Developments and Opportunities on the Zeus Network
The final paragraph discusses upcoming developments on the Zeus network, including the launch of Apollo, the first application built on top of Zeus, which aims to bring Bitcoin liquidity to Solana. The speaker also mentions plans for a Zeus hackathon in collaboration with Solana and Hacker House, as well as the goal to make Zeus a track in future Solana hackathons. The aim is to attract developers to build innovative solutions that leverage the Zeus network, further integrating Bitcoin and other assets into the Solana ecosystem.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Bitcoin
💡Solana
💡Layer 1.5
💡tBTC
💡Zeus
💡Decentralized Finance (DeFi)
💡Liquidity Layer
💡Tokenization
💡Interoperability
💡Smart Contracts
💡Decentralized Applications (dApps)
Highlights
Zeus positions itself as a 'layer 1.5', enabling external assets like Bitcoin to become programmable on Solana.
Zeus aims to avoid fragmentation of liquidity and usability issues associated with multiple layer 2 solutions.
The importance of a single layer for transactional sustainability in the long term is emphasized.
Zeus uses a node coordination network running on top of Solana validators for consensus on external blockchain activity.
Assets deposited into external blockchain addresses are guarded by Zeus nodes, ensuring security and immutability.
Zeus introduces a new form of Bitcoin wrapped asset on Solana, called zBTC, facilitated by Apollo.
The concept of 'tBTC-AEs' is introduced for secure custody and private key management of Bitcoin.
Zeus nodes utilize threshold signatures to ensure the security of Bitcoin assets on the Solana network.
Zeus allows for the redemption of zBTC back to Bitcoin, with a process managed by smart contracts.
Apollo, built on Zeus, aims to bring millions of Bitcoins into the Solana ecosystem.
Zeus is designed to be composable, allowing for the creation of new financial products and services on Solana.
The potential for synthetic asset creation using Zeus is discussed, including the possibility of algorithmic stablecoins.
Zeus is evaluated as a strong candidate for Bitcoin and other proof-of-work assets to interact with Solana.
The future of proof-of-work assets in a proof-of-stake dominated landscape is explored, highlighting their continued relevance.
Zeus is set to undergo further testing before a mainnet launch, aiming for a secure and stable platform for Bitcoin on Solana.
The first Zeus hackathon is planned for the end of the year, with Solana as a major sponsor, to encourage development on the platform.
Transcripts
[Music]
Justin welcome to validated pleasure to
be here ah so this is our second episode
talking about the intersection of
Bitcoin and the salana universe so you
know last time on the show we we talked
to threshold and thesis about tbtc which
is sort of a bridge liquidity layer um
that brings wrapped Bitcoin to ethereum
and then brings that asset to salana but
what you guys are doing at Zeus is a
little bit different you guys talk about
this as the First Communication layer
between Bitcoin and salana what is that
actually mean this is the type of
question that I often get asked from
from people on in the conference like
what is Zeus like is Zeus layer to or is
is layer to like for S spns you know SAR
know entirely you know uh me as a
Founder I I'm strongly disagree with uh
fragmentation on the ler one perspective
first first in terms of usability for
the user size why would you want to
change RPC to another new layer but if a
layer want Sal is far more usable the
most of layers AR and second but the
most importantly is uh liquidity
fragmentations you know we we have
experienced that for the last two years
from ethereum perspective for EVN you
know there to is not for it's not the
solutions there there could be a
temporary solution but for for the
long-term sustainable solution wise uh I
don't think users really appreciate that
and uh and and then we we're start
seeing the reason why Anatolia Raj for
from two years ago saying that one layer
should transact everything instead of
multiple layers on top of it so you know
uh what Zeus does we we we portray
ourself as a layer 1.5 so long as a
layer one plus 0.5 Zeus which would
enable external assets like Litecoin
Bitcoin Dogecoin any UT chain are not
programmable we make it programmable on
salana using the SPN on the L web
perspective
yeah so let's get into a little bit of
how that actually works I think I think
famously Bitcoin and and these other
types of assets you mentioned they don't
really have a smart contract system
there's some tap rot magic and there's
maybe some bit VM sometime in the future
but you know if you look at all of the
existing l2s today like the Bitcoin l2s
today they're really side chains with
some sort of trust minimized bridging um
very similar to you know how polygon
proof of stake has no Direct Security
relationship to ethereum it is a side
chain at that point versus something
like an optimism which is actually built
properly on top of the ethereum stack so
walk me through a little bit how like
you you call this a layer
1.5 uh how is it differ from a classic
like side chain implementation yeah for
sure you know first of I just want to
emphasize on the Bitcoin lat aspect
right now you know we we probably see
more than 30 50 plus Bitcoin l so C uh
coming out this year or or last around
the end of last year at that time and a
lot of like atin say Obviously a lot of
these layers are not correlated with
Bitcoin on on the layer one consensus
yeah more so they're more like a slain
perspective with with their own POS
mechanisms enabling their own security
rather than working uh interchangeably
with a Bitcoin P consensus yeah so that
to me they are just creating a layer and
then which something called bvn you are
pretty much taking perspective into
their own layer changing gas from
ethereum to Bitcoins is that helpful I'm
not sure cuz you know every cycle users
investors obviously retails are changing
their advertise and they know what is
good what is good for the future of what
3es so and then that's why here's the
reason why I started Zeus almost 14
months ago all right I went I was in
Europe I went to a couple Bitcoin
conferences and I was just like I diing
into all these tech technical paper on
on a Bitcoin L I realized that hey
they're just creating their own layers
yeah and why don't we just Mix A Lot as
a layer to for these P consensus etx so
change on their and we have to know that
right like a lot of these miners they're
looking for sustainable yeld they're not
looking for crazy incentives like 10 20%
yeld yeah sure he could be appealing for
for for the F for the first few days but
where does the Y come from right we have
to know yeld comes from users if a
protocol and ecosystem has no deps and a
users the your are inflation there in
most of the aspects are are coming from
their own native tokens so you know I
still think that's LW we providing the
most sustainable y right now if you look
at in terms onchain activities and
unchain growth rates and here's the
reason why you know um a lot of people
ask me if Zeus is not there to you guys
there point one point but how does that
works which which means Zeus all these
assets are communicated over to salana
by Zeus are safely guarded by Zeus No
and Ze know it's a consensus it's a
consens of NPC models running on top of
Sol validators which means we don't run
our own validator we have our own nodes
and nodes and power our consensus which
is NPC models uh every asset that are
deposit in into the external blockchain
address are simply guarded by the node
itself which means even Zeus Foundation
ourselves have have no right to really
take the assets whatever you deposit and
me on a salon side of it so I I think
it's refreshing in many aspects that
Zeus also get as a lot you guys Bridge
you know uh first of first of all like
you know uh without Bridge you know um
we are far more interv composable in a
way that people can build on top of zpl
and then creating zpl assets and then
zpl assets actually dery token
extensions so we're we extremely
confident that with zpu asset especially
like external assets like Bitcoin
Litecoin room order nose it's really
going to do the strong Showcases of what
token extension can do for the Sol
entire somos system and then obviously
with the the rivue models of uh Zeus zp
assets which is uh token station models
the more transaction that being on chain
the more Revenue we earn in sell and the
more we kick back to ZN itself too so
right now there there really six things
that want to build on top of zpo they
want to build like a multi- lunch pad
you know uh I'm not sure a lot of you
guys have experienced using Ordo uni
sets wallet to purchase Ordo in STS it
takes about 30 40 minutes and not just
that right you're pretty pretty much
paying inscriptions uh tokens on on a
Bitcoin block that has no utilities that
has no programmable actions you can do
governance on top of it but why can't we
migrate these to Sal I think that could
be interesting moving forward yeah so I
I want to kind of go back to like that
the technical layer of how Zeus actually
operates so you mentioned there's kind
of this node coordination Network that's
running on top of of salana um but if
I'm taking something like Bitcoin right
walk me through like what is the Journey
of me taking from a technical
perspective me taking a Bitcoin that's
on the Bitcoin Network and generating
something I can use in Salon def5 via
Zeus so Apollo as a First Step Building
on top of zpl so pretty much AP poo and
the mission of AP poloo is UN boarding
millions of Bitcoins through salon
and what it does Apollo leverage the
communication portal between Bitcoin and
Sal using Sal to validate whatever
happens on the Bitcoin ends so which
means the to walk through you you simply
deposit uh your Bitcoins into the
address that is as being provided by
polls and it will provide you another
version of a zpu asset which is called
zbc on salana end and your BDC is simply
guarded by zils no one has the right to
take whatever the BDC that's depositing
to the in the address and then you can
use zbd deposit into this for example
like comminos or any structure products
or bar Lings I think these are the type
of defa action that uh Bitcoin
institutions are looking for you know
even just 1% of Y sustainably that is
huge for miners so so where uh you know
the classic problem with every time
you're trying to move a Bitcoin off of
the Bitcoin network is someone or
something has to custody it and because
there's no smart contract programming
language on bitcoin you can't do what
you typically do on a on a a network
like salana or ethereum where you know
you wrap it in a smart contract program
that is open source and audited and you
know like battle tested from that
perspective so so what is the actual
like custody look like on this case are
you basically taking that Bitcoin seed
phrase for that address and like
breaking it up and MPC it throughout the
nodes or how is the actual Bitcoin
secured so basically um we use tab rots
so you deposit into a tber AES uh for
your Bitcoins and then send sign to our
our Z not and then issue Z notes this is
six Z NOS will divide their private keys
and then use NPC to mix up the private
key so no one knows on chains which noes
are actually holding the key to transex
and then all pretty much all the all of
these six noes have to be operated at
the same time to really ensure the
transaction from the Tabo address are
being validated on SPN levels so in a
short turn for non technical people
we're using SL to validate whatever
happens on the Bitcoin side and when Sal
validated on our end by Z Del and then
we released the tokens which is called
cbdc on Sal ends you you have that zp
asset on your wallets nice and so if I
want to go the other way if I've bought
zbtc on Solana and I say ah I want to
deposit it into my Bitcoin address how
does that like Redemption flow work so
once you get zbtc you can also withdraw
from Apollos so pretty much the amount
of cbdc will not inflate unless there
more PTC deposit into totally and if
there's strong demand of zbc there's
going to be Ki premium in some
perspective if the salon cbdc on on SOL
side higher price than act BDC there's
going to be average charge opportunities
and I believe that more people will
actually want to deposit BDC into cbdc
and S Sal and once you hit that
equilibrium levels the price will adjust
it to a market level SPS and obviously
there's no work on Bitcoins and uh I
think with with this way if more demands
will cost more Supply and eventually
you meet the equilibrium levels for the
price itself yeah totally so but if I
want to like uh like unwrap for lack for
better term um and get like you know I
I've like so for example like with with
thesis or threshold the Redemption Arc
is on salana you have to bridge it to
ethereum and then you can talk to the
thesis Network and you can get BTC back
on the other end how does that work uh
with Zeus or you know it maybe complet
difference yeah like it honestly it just
withraw your BDC to BDC address yeah
we're we're going to ask you to provide
your BDC address and within within 12
hours you're going to get your bdcs on
theirs so is that like a in the loop or
how is that kind of managed for that
Redemption um it's it's on program
levels because we have like coold
Reserve High reserve on the balance
sheets so we want to ensure that nobody
not not everyone is going to reserve and
then do malas attack at one time so
there's going to be Cod reserves for
example 60% of bdcs is going to be hot
wallets 40% is going to be on C wallet
as well and everything is done by on a
program site as well yeah so so like uh
walk me through kind of how that
coordination works so you mentioned that
like you guys are using tap R addresses
and so the Zeus nodes are are
controlling the NPC how do they
reassemble the key to then like withdraw
Bitcoin from that tap rot address like
when someone requests you know let's say
there's like you know a th000 Bitcoin in
this particular address and you know I I
have want to get one out or something
like that so um when you get extra
Bitcoins zbtc on a salon size somebody's
losing it yeah like that that's how it
works and when you want to withdraw in
through Apollos which is the first T
build on about zpl you're going to have
to provide your Bitcoin address and then
once Sol it's pretty much like a lock a
m mechanism so you release your zbtc and
then one of the address for the code
reserves is going to release to address
and then you're going to get your uh
your Bitcoins on on a provided address
and this this weight has no censorships
there's no third party everything's done
by procedures and the programable ways
per nice and so how do you kind of view
the future of kind of a Bitcoin Salon
communication layer like the the first
use here is sort of not not exactly
bridging but something similar to to
bridging or synthetic asset Creation
with a one toone backed asset what are
the other applications you see for
communications layers between salana and
networks like Bitcoin I think Apollo is
going to demonstrate the the potential
of having layer 1.5 between Bitcoin
salana you know Ian Sol can make Bitcoin
programable with SV the potential of SVN
and obviously Apollo is the first
reaking of a big BDC question reaking
bdcs from BDC to Sal and I think the
more use cases that we SE that people
want to collaberate bitcoin issues
stable coins on the law as well that
could be C change as well if D could
work out with EVN why can we do St
decentralized algic stable coins Al has
been collateral by Bitcoins could also
work very well as well and more
perspective is that there are more than
50 plus thousand of collection order
notes there are lack of utilities no
Governors no way to really prel the
community more Force you know with a lot
of consensus and decisions but with with
Zeus you can really build a synthetic
Dell tokens from weo to SPL Z standards
and then people can really use Reland on
salana fings a lot of things cool thing
you can do with that and then also by
the way lunch part as well right I think
as a matter of fact that like if you
want to use Unis set a lot of Bitcoin
wallets to purchase sets or rooms a lot
of all these like encrypted uh letters
it takes forever and the user experience
are pretty terrible actually so if we
can use salana the part you deposit you
s to buy whatever on a Bitcoin ends that
could be interesting models as well yes
so I want to kind of go back to one
piece which is you mentioned this is all
built using Salon as a coordination
layer why did you guys decide to make
that decision and and sort of what was
that process like what else did you
evaluate for architecture decisions yeah
um I think Frankly Speaking we we've
been building US law since 20 late 2019
early 2020 um we were probably one of
earliest one of the earliest Asian
developers in Asia that are been
advocating salana since day one you know
you you can't always pick a better chams
obviously there there's a reason why we
stayed so lot for the last four almost
five years or 80s is that every year
there's always better chain with uh
faster TPS but the chain that has been
constantly going through stress tests
constantly going through battles and it
has the best social economics social uh
uh communities I think that those are
the chains that you want to B on and and
then we have proven that our the thesis
were right from early this year you know
down chain usage for salana daily activ
a l address has been phenomenal in one
aspect and why makes a l Bitcoin
together I think that's very interesting
models a lot of people ask me Justin
what do you think of this first place I
think if there has to be one layer that
has to be inter with salana it has to be
sorry with Bitcoin has to be salana you
know ethereum had they had their own
chance Last cycles that bdcs rain BDC
all these like so-called like
communication there they were trying to
do a similar what law does they could
have pull it off because Layer Two it
wasn't because of the design of layer
one there it was because of competition
of Layer Two due to high cost and low
speeds and if you have you have two
chains that are low speed trying to work
with each other it doesn't make sense in
many aspects right so I think salana has
proven low cost high speeds it's
actually buildable and much easier to
build compared to fors and not to
mention us acquisitions I think a lot of
people think that I I can be the first
product in this chain and I I have the
market shance but it doesn't work that
ways everyone tries to run the Lio
Playbook yeah exactly why would you want
to build on anything on top of besides
iOS and Androids right now it doesn't
make sense to me at all so for me
Android's ethereum iOS is Salona if we
can make iOS works with Bitcoins which
is on Tab liquidities we have a strong
Edge right over here and it's not just
that right
like I mentioned there are six projects
want to be on top of zpl these projects
are coming from Bitcoin communities
right it's not coming from Sal they they
had they have enough frustrations from
so called Pon L too too much promising
and then people don't realize that it's
actually not that easy to be all
layer yeah I mean this this is one of
the things people always overestimate or
underestimate they they think oh we'll
just build a management layer on top of
this thing and like you know other than
base very few have actually managed to
build a strong compelling one which I
think is very very interesting like the
the the problems of building a system
that's dependent on another system um
are pretty massive um not to say it
can't be done but it's just a it's a
hard process to get right I agree I mean
like there's always better chains out
there every years obviously it's going
to come out like faster TPS fast
SEC that but who's actually using it
like people actually use it so uh I want
I want to take a little bit of a a turn
here um you guys have an kind of
interesting model and correct me if I'm
understanding this right or wrong but of
uh like a verifiable program
library on on Zeus how does that work
and and what's the sort of uh what's the
reason for needing like a program
registry there
basically what we what how we
differentiate us with a lot of So-Cal
question layers out there is that first
of all we we are not layers with layer
1.5 so yeah we pretty much opens another
doors for SL to really interact with
external blockchains interchangeably and
permissionless ways to do that second
but most importantly we want to Advocate
future developers and Founders to build
the next generation of request stream
products and I I'm still a Believer the
future should be monolithic in a way
that future should be multi-chain cost
chains in many aspects if s SPN is
really propelling the cyclos and really
helping a lot of users and Founders to
build Next Generation web web 3 apps why
could we enable this to exteral
blockchains you know a lot of these UT
Exel chains out there they are onta
liquidity in my opinions they're sitting
around 10 billion to 50 billion 100
billions like so lot other Bitcoin
equities out there they're waiting for
us to really develop the Next Generation
in deps to really Propel moving Force so
um I just spoke to Litecoin miners three
days ago actually they're very excited
very excited first of all they could be
programable first ever I mean there were
chains out there they wanted to try I
also spoke to me one of the big biggest
miners for dogecoins as well they want
to make that happens as well why can't
Dogecoin work with s it could be a lot
of interesting model moving forwards as
well right so yeah so do you sort of see
a lot of these networks then
as because Doge there have been
proposals floating around for Doge to
migrate to proof of stake for a long
time and in that migration there's
always kind of been an assumed oh well
we could easily add some form of light
compute layer on top of that as well do
you sort of see that as like maybe not
gaining as much traction and instead
they're looking at oh what if we could
just bring the Doge asset class to other
other networks yeah um great question
first of all um I mean I I'm pretty sure
ethereum Foundation spent probably half
billion dollars on um from by creting
ppos at least for all these last four
years and in terms of Doge if you go go
go to the GitHub to see their
commitments it's not even close to the
obviously and you know if if that
doesn't work why can waste a lot of help
and then frankly I spoke to two Dogecoin
miners they're very optimistics about
this kind of collaborations right
they're they have so much Doge sitting
there mostly into institutions wallets
collateral getting more stable coins War
just sitting in in F2 pools lending
their Doge for whatever people want to
borrow gas to so you know if there are
Innovations between Doge and an actual
Dogecoin that could be potentially
earning y Sala or multiple questioning
deps or even Caminos even earning yells
from drifts right TR dogecoins native
Dogecoin on salana that could be
interesting as well yeah so so what do
you kind of see as like the relevancy
for these proof of work assets over over
the long term like I think the the
Bitcoin pitch is fairly uh well
established at this point you know oh
like the most secure form of digital
asset you can get is Bitcoin right there
there's a whole narrative around that
structure but I think if you start
looking at like the other proof of work
assets like that thesis you know gets a
little bit shakier because you know
there's only one gold right and maybe
there's two Golds now there's Bitcoin as
well but like people don't have that
same sort of like fervor for silver or
platinum or any of the other rare Metals
there something that's like really
captured people's minds about about gold
so you know Doge obviously has this like
very big mem coin status but like
Litecoin as well like where do you see
kind of demand for these assets being
programmable come in like what is the
sort of um I I mean I'm not really
asking you to justify their existence
but like you know why are these asset
classes still desirable in a proof of
stake world yeah um obviously P came
first then p p and then yeah migration
of p p from POS for ether obviously due
to scalability and the speed of chain
itself does miter really want that
happens you know I spoke a lot of OG
miters for theor a lot of them have
moved to AGI Marketplace which is AI
competing Powers interesting but you
know I think a lot of it are due to
speed of the chain so and then the
needed for to change over else and then
am I a fan of P I'm actually a fan of P
I think probably the most decentralized
consensus out there that could be fairly
distributed two people could could
really M the coins with their own love
computers for early days and then if you
have to purchase mining machines right
now it's probably going cost you like a
fortune right now for a lot of retails
but back in the days it was fairly
distributed so do I think p is going to
dry down or go with faded I don't think
so actually seems a couple P chains out
there are emerging right now uh with a
lot of uh um um speed improvements or
programable actions Cas for So-Cal a lot
of P Chang even file coins from the
early days as well so um yeah like you
know it's probably one of the best way
to fairly distribute it uh not just from
a coin perspect perspective Al also from
the network perspective as well and yeah
like there there's there's there's
always going to be battle between p ps
without questions in my in my takes and
then obviously it's it's it's probably
coming from the people people that with
their own intentions and and and
benefits so um but it's good for
industry right there's always debates
there's always discussions definitely so
uh you mentioned Apollo is the first uh
application that's been built on top of
Zeus uh is there anything else you can
tell us about what's what's getting
built now and also for developers who
are maybe interested in learning more
and digging into the code and figuring
out what they could bu build on the
network uh where can they go to get
started yeah for sure so uh we are we
are going through music test n right now
uh it's the last test St before we
actually enabled was still opening on on
the Maine bet dos we we're we are
targeting Maine
Bots hopefully around breako time so we
can release around a around big point
for mini betas and then people can
really leverage and stick their their
tokens and delegate into the notes and
then together protect the zo n work
togethers and when that happens the
Bitcoin can really come in just l in the
pr matter through Apollos and Apollo is
the first steps and we also want to do
Apollo token with points it could be no
VC back and actually the token that has
do of Bitcoins behind behind the the dep
itself so lot of way we can do it and
then yeah and then we also want to host
the first ever Zeus heam around the
quarter of this Ser uh late this series
with Tae uh Hacker House which is around
December I think Sol also the biggest
sponsor at that time as well and yeah
and then our go is to be one of the
tracks for next year for Salon
hackathons I still think that some other
yvn could be probably be the only
solution enabling Bitcoin Litecoin
Dogecoin any chains out there coming to
salana and when that happens we have a
strong Edge to compete with with Ean TBL
in my perspective very cool well uh
Justin thank you for joining us today on
validated than you guys it's been my
pleasure
[Music]
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