L'AI e la creatività sono la chiave per creare prodotti di successo?
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful interview, Google veteran Tron, with 17 years of experience, shares his journey from Chrome OS to founding YouTube Create and Google Wi-Fi, and leading Google Labs. Tron emphasizes the importance of empathy and leadership in product management, the transformative power of AI, and the need to balance user understanding with innovative technology solutions. He candidly discusses the challenges of product launches, the pitfalls of local versus global optimization, and the essential role of communication in guiding users through the complexities of AI-driven products.
Takeaways
- 🌟 Empathy is the most crucial skill for a product manager, enabling deep understanding of user problems and guiding product development.
- 🏔️ Avoiding local optima is vital; product managers should aim for global optima by challenging assumptions and seeking broader perspectives beyond their immediate user base.
- 🔮 The future of product management will emphasize leadership skills, which are timeless and foundational for career growth, over specific technologies that may become outdated.
- 🤖 AI will be a superpower for product managers, aiding in tasks such as data analysis and user understanding, thus allowing for more focused and empathetic product development.
- 🛠️ Product managers should integrate AI into their workflows to learn its limitations and potential, using it as a tool for gaining quick insights and understanding user trends.
- 📈 OKRs should be used thoughtfully to guide progress towards meaningful goals rather than as a simple checklist of tasks for the quarter.
- 🚀 Entrepreneurial spirit within a large company can provide opportunities to build and innovate, similar to starting a business but with the advantages of established resources.
- 🎢 The balance between solving user problems and leveraging technology is key; product managers must ensure technology serves the user need, not the other way around.
- 🔄 Hardware and software require similar skillsets, with the main difference being the tools used to solve user problems effectively.
- 🎼 The future of music and play may involve personalization through AI, but there's a need to maintain a sense of community and shared experiences in these domains.
- 📚 Continuous learning and adaptation are essential; product managers must be ready to change their approach and expectations as they gain new insights and understanding.
Q & A
What is the importance of understanding the 'hill on the horizon' metaphor mentioned in the transcript?
-The 'hill on the horizon' metaphor emphasizes the importance of having a broader perspective when addressing issues or setting goals. It suggests that what seems like the biggest challenge from a limited viewpoint might not be as significant when a wider view is gained, prompting a reset of expectations and approaches.
How does the speaker describe their entrepreneurial journey within Google?
-The speaker describes their journey as a series of entrepreneurial endeavors within Google, starting with Chrome OS and moving through various projects like Google Wi-Fi and YouTube Create. They highlight the importance of deeply understanding user problems and leveraging technology to solve them in innovative ways.
What is the speaker's current focus at Google Labs?
-The speaker's current focus at Google Labs is on the future of music and the future of play. They are exploring how technology, particularly AI, can be used to enhance these areas and enable people to have more fun and express themselves more creatively.
How does the speaker view the future of music with AI and personalization?
-The speaker is skeptical about a future where every piece of music is completely personalized, as they believe music is a deeply personal yet community-driven experience. They suggest that while personalization can evolve the listening experience, the communal aspect of music should not be lost.
What was the speaker's experience like when transitioning from hardware to software product management?
-The speaker found that the core skills required for product management are similar whether dealing with hardware or software. The key is solving meaningful user problems, and the tools used to solve these problems may differ, but the strategy and user focus remain constant.
What is the significance of the Google Wi-Fi project in the speaker's career?
-The Google Wi-Fi project was significant as it was an entrepreneurial endeavor within Google that started from scratch. The speaker learned valuable lessons about user empathy, product strategy, and the importance of reliability over top speed for the product's success.
What was the core insight behind the Google Wi-Fi product design?
-The core insight was that users were not concerned with the top speed of their Wi-Fi but with its reliability. Users wanted a product that just worked when plugged in, was easy to set up, self-healing, and updated automatically, which led to the design of Google Wi-Fi.
What is the speaker's opinion on the importance of empathy for a product manager?
-The speaker believes that empathy is the most critical skill for a product manager. It allows them to listen and understand the problems users face, which is essential for identifying the right problems to solve and avoiding the trap of focusing solely on data and experimentation.
What is the difference between local and global optima as explained in the transcript?
-Local optima refer to a solution that may seem optimal from a limited perspective but may not be the best solution when a broader view is considered. Global optima represent the best solution when considering all possible options. The risk of focusing only on local optima is that one might be working towards the wrong goal entirely.
What was the most challenging moment in the speaker's career, and what did they learn from it?
-The most challenging moment was the launch of the Google Pixel Slate, which faced negative reviews due to performance issues. The speaker learned the importance of ensuring a product meets high expectations from day one and the role of a product manager as a gatekeeper for delivering a great product to users.
What are the speaker's predictions for the future of product management?
-The speaker predicts that leadership skills will remain crucial, AI will become a superpower in the profession, and product managers will need to be excellent communicators to help users understand and benefit from AI technologies.
Outlines
🌟 Overcoming Local Maxima in Product Management
The speaker discusses the metaphor of climbing the biggest hill in sight, which represents solving the most apparent problem for current users. However, this can limit vision to larger opportunities beyond the horizon. The speaker emphasizes the importance of resetting expectations and exploring beyond familiar territories to discover and tackle bigger challenges. The conversation delves into the speaker's experience at Google, moving from Chrome to Google Wi-Fi, Pixelbook, and eventually founding YouTube Create from scratch, highlighting the need for adaptability and continuous learning in product management.
🚀 Entrepreneurial Spirit within Big Companies
The speaker shares their journey from aspiring entrepreneur to leading product roles at Google. Initially aiming to work at Google for five years, they discovered a passion for entrepreneurship within large organizations. Starting with Chrome OS, the speaker learned from industry leaders and contributed to Google Wi-Fi's growth from inception. The narrative underlines the importance of understanding user needs and leveraging technology to solve problems creatively, which are core to entrepreneurial endeavors within established companies.
🎨 The Intersection of Creativity and AI at Google Labs
As the product director at Google Labs, the speaker focuses on the future of music and play, exploring how technology can enhance fun and creativity. They discuss the potential of AI to create personalized experiences but also stress the importance of maintaining humanity at the core of technological advancements. The speaker envisions a future where AI helps people create better art and express themselves more playfully, while also considering the societal implications of such technologies.
🎶 The Future of Music and Personalization
The speaker contemplates the future of music in an AI-driven world, where personalization could lead to a loss of shared musical experiences. They express skepticism about the idea of completely bespoke music, highlighting the communal aspect of music and its role in connecting people. The discussion touches on the challenges of music discovery in an infinite music landscape and the importance of maintaining a balance between personalization and shared cultural experiences.
🔄 Transitioning from Hardware to Software in Product Management
Drawing from personal experience, the speaker reflects on the transition from managing hardware products like Google Wi-Fi to software products like YouTube Create. They highlight the importance of solving real user problems regardless of the product type and the shared skills required for both hardware and software product management. The speaker emphasizes the significance of clarity in strategy, knowing what to sacrifice for the sake of reliability or performance, and the user-centric approach in both domains.
🛠 The Strategic Importance of Reliability in Product Design
The speaker recounts the development of Google Wi-Fi, emphasizing the strategic decision to prioritize reliability over speed. They discuss the insights gained from user experiences and the importance of product design in ensuring the product's performance aligns with user expectations. The narrative illustrates the process of identifying and solving the right user problems, the challenges of hardware visibility, and the innovative approach to making the router an aesthetically pleasing household item.
🤔 The Role of Empathy in Product Management
The speaker identifies empathy as the most critical skill for a product manager, enabling them to understand and solve user problems effectively. They critique the trend of relying solely on data and experimentation, advocating for a balance with user empathy to guide the development process. The speaker warns against the risk of finding only local optima and emphasizes the need for broader exploration and understanding of user needs beyond immediate metrics.
🏔 Climbing the Right Mountain: Setting Proper Goals
The speaker uses the metaphor of climbing mountains to discuss the importance of setting the right objectives in product management. They stress the need to challenge assumptions and explore beyond one's comfort zone to identify and pursue the most significant challenges. The speaker also touches on the misuse of OKRs and the importance of aligning them with the correct 'mountain' or goal, adjusting key results as learning progresses.
📉 The Consequences of Shipping Too Early
The speaker shares a challenging experience with the launch of the Google Pixel Slate, which faced negative reviews due to performance issues at launch. They reflect on the mistake of not delaying the product release to ensure quality, emphasizing the product manager's role as a gatekeeper for delivering a polished product. The speaker discusses the lessons learned about accountability, user expectations, and the importance of not compromising on quality.
🔮 Predictions for the Future of Product Management
The speaker predicts that leadership and communication skills will continue to be paramount in product management, with technology skills being secondary. They highlight AI as a superpower for the profession, offering new tools for understanding user trends and improving products. The speaker envisions AI integration into everyday workflows, reducing repetitive tasks and allowing product managers to focus more on user empathy and problem-solving. They also stress the importance of guiding users in understanding the benefits of AI-infused products.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Product Management
💡Empathy
💡Google Labs
💡AI
💡User Experience
💡Innovation
💡Local Optima
💡Global Optima
💡Hardware and Software
💡Leadership
💡OKRs
Highlights
The importance of viewing challenges as hills on the horizon and the need to reset expectations when discovering bigger challenges beyond one's current perspective.
The speaker's journey from joining Google with the intention of starting his own company to leading various product initiatives within the company.
The entrepreneurial mindset and its influence on the speaker's approach to product management within a large company like Google.
The role of deeply understanding user problems and leveraging technology to solve them in novel ways as a key to successful product management.
The future of music and play as areas of focus for Google Labs, with an emphasis on using technology to enhance fun and creativity.
The skepticism towards a world where everything is personalized, and the importance of shared experiences in music and community.
The challenges of discovery in the music industry and the role of AI in addressing these challenges.
The use of AI tools like Gemini or GPT for personal storytelling and creativity, showcasing the potential of AI in enhancing human expression.
The speaker's experience with Google Wi-Fi, emphasizing the importance of solving real user problems and the strategy behind product development.
The distinction between local and global optima, and the risks of focusing on the wrong challenges or solutions.
The concept of leadership as a critical skill in product management that transcends the specific technologies of the time.
The pitfalls of using OKRs as a to-do list and the importance of setting the right objectives and measurable steps towards them.
The challenges faced with the Google Pixel Slate and the lessons learned about product readiness and the importance of user expectations.
The role of AI in product management, including its potential to enhance understanding of user trends and improve product development.
The future of product management with a focus on leadership, AI integration, and the need for clear communication about the benefits of AI to users.
Transcripts
so if your current users are running
into a given
issue it may be the hill that is on the
horizon that you can see it's the
biggest hill that you can see from your
neighborhood right and if the only place
you've ever explored is your
neighborhood that hill on the horizon is
the biggest mountain in the world to you
so you're going to spend or maybe you're
going to dream about climbing that
mountain one day the problem is when you
get to the top of that mountain and now
you can see beyond that Horizon that you
grew up in you you get to see out on the
horizon hey there's another bigger Hill
over there now if you spent your entire
life building this identity to get to
the top of that one Hill in your local
local
town and later discover that there's
another bigger one well you've got to
reset your expectations change your
approach train in a different way
perhaps
product
management Google Labs Google
[Music]
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Chrome
create WI for
management
manag for
[Music]
Microsoft welcome to
prodos thank you Marco I'm so excited to
be here today thank you very much it's a
really a pleasure to have you here here
just reading on your LinkedIn B you've
been working at Google for 17 years
leading first then you started with
chrome then you found that Google Wi-Fi
inside Google then you read pixel book
then pixelbook go then you shift to
YouTube create in which you founded
actually the app from this from scratch
and now you are product director at
Google Labs but you are even leading the
program at Google Google for changing
career and for internal Mobility so is
really exciting to have you here so my
first question
is how can I become TR wellner so how
did you start what's the secret s oh my
that's quite a question well I've
certainly had a set of extraordinary
opportunities at Google and outside of
Google that have kind of led me to where
I am um when I first joined Google I
very much thought that I'd work at this
company for maybe five years learn my
way around Silicon Valley meet some
people and then go start my own company
my my dream had always been to be an
entrepreneur and to go and run and build
a business
and you know you look at you look at the
opportunities that I've had inside of
Google and most of them are very
entrepreneurially shaped um beginning at
the early stages of projects so I was
one of the first product managers to
join the team building Chrome OS I
really cut my teeth on how to build at
Google in that team learned from some of
the very best people around my skip
level manager during that was
Sundar um which was an extraordinary OPP
opportunity to work with amazing
people um from there started what became
Google WiFi and again very
entrepreneurial we started from zero and
built that product up um but when I look
back it's always been in the shape of
Entrepreneurship inside of a big company
now I know I'm not foolish enough to
think that it's the same as starting a
company out in the real world they have
many many advantages doing it inside a
place like Google but the things that we
learn about really deeply understanding
who our users are listening for the
problems that they communicate and don't
communicate to you and then deeply
thinking about how to use technology
that we have available to us or that we
could create to solve those problems in
new and novel ways is a superpower that
you develop only by doing and so to
answer your question of how do you
become a product manager that has had
the opportunity to go and build and
build and build it's by doing it's by
getting your hands in the dirt listening
to users and deeply thinking about how
to solve their problems better great and
right now you work at how do you say the
intersection between creativity and AI
you are product directory at Google
Labs I made some jokes around the apps
You're Building they are quite
amazing so which are your current
responsibilities so Google Labs we
organize ourselves around the Futures
we're trying to create and when we think
into the future it's very challenging
you have to look at what technology is
available today and what what's coming
both on the horizon and around the
corner and to do that you really need to
deeply think about how these
technologies that are being built can
affect Humanity at scale so the two
areas that I'm most deeply thinking
about right now are the future of music
and the future of play and within those
spaces I think there is profound
opportunity to use technology honestly
to have more fun I look around at Google
and I think wow so many of the projects
we work on are very buttoned up they're
very corporate they're very big business
and I remember back to my early days at
the company about how much fun it was to
play and build and use technology to
make things that were fun and so that's
what I'm inspired to do is how do we use
our technology to help people have more
fun and there's a huge opportunity to
use these these new capabilities AI is a
profoundly interesting space but when I
look at the future that we can create
how do we make sure that we keep the
Humanity Central to it and use it to
help us as people build better things
make better things create better art
really express ourselves in more fun and
playful ways and what's the future of
play in your opinion because every
everyone can think about the future of
productivity through Ai and maybe having
fun and playing
USIC using basic K tools I mean I use
all the time gemini or CH GPT just to
tell story to my daughters and to create
instant you know images to connect the
story but I cannot think about the
future of play using AI so for sure
there should be something no one
sees well this is this is great I think
those are amazing examples being able to
have a more fulfilling relationship with
your daughter because you can tell
interesting fun stories that were
probably seated by experiences you share
so you start with an idea about a
princess in a castle but you can
personalize that story and you can talk
about how that princess overcame a
specific challenge like maybe your
daughter is nervous about a presentation
she has to give in class tomorrow but
you can talk about her slaying this
dragon in a way that is representative
of this sort of anxiety she's going
through at the moment so you can take
sort of Storytelling tools and use them
in ways that are much more fulfilling in
the relationships you're building in
your own life so I find the future of
play and the future of sort of human
communication to be deeply linked right
things that we find fun and playful
are basically Joy creation and that can
that can come in a in a number of
different ways so I think one step in
that puzzle is making these tools more
personal and doing it in a way that
allows you to control what it is to mean
that this is personal this is personal
to me doesn't mean that it has to ride
off of a big database of your data
instead it means I have given you this
information tell me a story about a girl
who's facing this Challenge and frame it
in the context of a medieval King
right you have specifically directed the
story but you get something fun and
playful back that you can nudge and
iterate and turn into that bedtime story
that is fun to to me it's very strange
to think that in the near
future everyone can have his own music
you know because there are some Trends
telling us that everyone will have his
own video game his own movie his own
music and there won be any
like General song Because AI would
provide to everyone the things that he
or she wants and to me is quite
extreme I'm very curious to understand
how do you
see yeah I I think um people as a whole
aren't good at knowing what they
want and so in that world where
everything I get is exactly what I want
I'm not exactly sure sure what it is
that I
want um if you go and talk to record
label CEOs and you ask them to
articulate their biggest challenges and
in fact I did this so what I did is I
took I took
the the quarterly Financial reports for
all of the
public um public record companies and I
put them into a tool that we have called
notebook LM this is a tool that's
available on labs. gooogle and I them in
and what this tool does is it it works
like a chat GPT or a Gemini uh system in
fact it's backed by Gemini but it only
provides you answers based on the
context you give it so the context I fed
were the quarterly and financial reports
and I asked it to summarize for me what
are the music label or music industry
leaders saying their biggest challenges
are and universally the number one
challenge they site
is Discovery so how do people discover
new music right in a world where music
is essentially infinite and that's the
world you're describing where everybody
has a completely personal point of view
on
music Discovery becomes not just a mega
problem that the record labels are are
are trying to solve it becomes a mega
problem that all of us are trying to
solve so I'm a little skeptical that we
actually want a world where every piece
of music we listen to is totally bespoke
I think there's a a version of this
world
where the context we're listening in
might be bespoke might be personalized a
bit but I do think that there is a huge
driver of connection that comes from
music music is one of these deeply
personal and deeply community-driven
experiences right people go to a Taylor
Swift concert not just because they love
her music
obviously they love her music but also
for the community of others who are
there with them enjoying that music
together and having a massive incredible
multi-person
experience if everybody had their own
version of those songs that was only
theirs this sort of connection would be
lost so I'm a bit of a skeptic when it
comes to the idea that everything is
going to be perfectly bespoke
now there are contexts where I think
this might evolve and a good a good uh
example of this would be in the
listening experience so um continuing
forward on the Taylor Swift example so
if I'm a big Taylor fan and I'm
listening to her music and all of a
sudden I'm like well I've got to get
into Focus mode and I've got to write
this talk them I'm gonna give it a
conference in Milan in
October um and I really just need to
focus but I still want to listen to her
music when I'm doing it well it might be
appropriate for me to listen to it in
sort of a lowii mode and in the old days
of record players you had a knob that
allowed you to change the RPM of the
music there could be a version of the
future where you are listening to a
piece of music and you say you know what
let me listen to this instead in lowii
mode where I love this feature I love
this feature right and you see a lot of
artists today and a lot of DJs doing
things are like this in fact one of the
most popular streams on YouTube is Loi
girl and the reason for that is is
people are looking for music that they
can listen to while they're doing other
tasks and so I think the future is
empowering for creators in that will'll
give them more ways to connect with
their audiences not
necessarily more artists to just compete
with although I do think as you bring
down the barriers to Creation it will
empower many more creators to get
involved in the act that part is very
inspiring to me as well but I do want to
challenge this notion that if fully
everything totally personal is actually
all that interesting of a destination I
think as you were saying as you were
speaking about this
thing basically if we have everything
personalized to every last you know
music
or uh movie there won't be any social
connection at all why do you go to the
cinema to the theater the concert that
is actually one of the best thing to you
cannot sing song together it is strange
to say you know but I will have my own
that I Know Myself yeah that's so it's
very hugly World actually I don't want
this world yeah and I don't want the
sort of like World of creativity that I
participate in to be limited by my
creativity
I want to be able to be sort of immersed
in the creativity of the world and I
can't do that if everything has to be
perfectly personal yeah that's right
listen Tron you like founded inside
Google two very different product pure
software YouTube create and like
Hardware Google
Wi-Fi so crazy different can you tell us
how does work which are the difference
how could you switch from Pure Hardware
to Pure
software how do you feel working both on
hardware and software which are the main
differences which do you enjoy did you
enjoy the
most well I spent about 10 years at
Google building things that were
Hardware related starting with Chrome OS
and running all the way through
pixelbook and that line um and I spent
probably five to seven years building
just pure software the really important
thing to note is that all Hardware
requires software to operate at its best
so there's a lot of similar shared
skills between the two um Hardware I
mean I don't know who coined this phrase
but Hardware is hard
and it is so for many many reasons um
and at the same time Hardware is not
that hard the thing about it that isn't
hard is fundamentally it's what solving
user problems
the common the Common Thread between
being a product manager focused on
Hardware Solutions and a product manager
focused on software Solutions is if
you're not solving real meaningful user
problems with what you're building
you're chasing your tail so it's
critical that you think about what
you're doing and why and the tools of
the trade that you use to solve that
problem are a little bit different but
if you don't have it right you don't
have it right
so uh I've worked on some extraordinary
products um things like Google Wi-Fi
which turned out to be one of the
bestselling Wi-Fi routers in the world
and our core Insight on that product was
at the time that we were starting to
build it the primary way that routers
were sold were on top speed so how fast
could you transfer files and when we go
when we went and met with users the
single thing the only thing users
complained about was was it not reliably
working right they would tell me oh I
don't stream Netflix in my bedroom
because well the Wi-Fi just doesn't work
there so I just only do it in the
kitchen or I only do it in the other
room and when we ask them well what do
you do when it doesn't work for you the
only answer they gave us was well
sometimes I'll go behind there unplug it
and plug it back in and sometimes that
works the only folks that felt empowered
by the software solutions that were
coming with it were deep
linked to the people who had an
understanding of how that Tech works so
they're like the engineers who were
building it they could go in remember
there was a day when you could you had
to go to like
192.168.0.1 log in with admin password
or some password that was printed on the
back of your router to like change
something about it well that was
instantly disqualifying for like 99% of
humanity so we focused all of our effort
on building a product that just worked
when you plugged it in we wanted you to
be able to set it up for the first time
in five minutes or less we wanted it to
be self-healing so that it would scan
the network regularly for any issues if
it discovered an issue issue it would
try to self-heal it would automatically
update every time there was a software
update and then reboot itself in the
middle of the night when the network
traffic was lowest and do everything it
Poss possibly could to make sure that it
was the most reliable product and that
turned out to be a game Cher I remember
when we were going to companies like
Best Buy to try to convince them to take
our little like new router in their in
their
Stores um many of them were like yeah
but like we've got this thing that looks
like a spaceship with 30 antennas
sticking out of it skew right now and
like people love it and we co-designed
this even with like one of our partners
we're like well it's kind of going down
this path that is solving the wrong
problem so Hardware can be really hard
but at the same time if you're really
thinking about who your user is and what
problem you need to solve with them it
actually can be really easy so when we
were building that piece of Hardware
knowing exactly why we were building it
who we were building it for and what
problem we were choosing to
solve clarified everything so when we
trying to make chipset choices that
we're saying oh you can use this one or
this one this one can give you the
highest speed we knew that we were
willing to sacrifice top speed for top
reliability so that is in my opinion the
definition of strategy knowing what you
will choose to be bad at in service of
being really good at something else is
what strategy is and from a product
perspective having that degree of
clarity about what your strategy is in
service of what user problem you're
solving that's the game changer and that
applies whether you're building Hardware
or software and so the question is how
to choose the right problem to solve
because you could have choosen you know
speed you could have choosen relability
you could have choosen the antennas the
design like a a spaces sheet well we
there's quite a few pieces of this so
the journey for Google Wi-Fi and I love
telling the story but the Journey of
Google Wi-Fi actually started when I was
a product manager on Chrome OS so when I
was working on Chrome OS one area of the
product that I was responsible for was
Wi-Fi and we would regularly get user
reports about hey my Chromebook isn't
working well for me or I can't get on
the Wi-Fi or the Wi-Fi is dropping its
connection and we would go investigate
these reports with customers and I found
myself in customer homes regularly
working side by side with them to try to
debug an issue and n tens out of 10 what
we found was the issue wasn't actually
on their Chromebook it was a
misconfiguration on their router and
every single person we talked to put
their router on the floor behind their
TV because it was ugly pile of antennas
and wires and they just wanted it out of
sight because who wants to see that in
their home and when we started going
into more and more users homes and
discovering the same problems over and
over we recognized that the real problem
here wasn't that they couldn't transfer
files fast enough it was that it just
wasn't working for them and roughly
around that same time I saw an internal
Google research report and this data is
many years old at this point but that
showed 75% of Google's product traffic
traveled over Wi-Fi before it got used
by our users and a light bulb went
off our Pro our whole business was
dependent on Wi-Fi working better and
every customer I'm talking to is having
a terrible experience with Wi-Fi and I
took those two pieces of insight and
built the momentum to get funding for
this new project idea hey what if we go
and solve inhome Wi-Fi how might that
work and so were you that person that
launched the idea of working on Google
Wi-Fi yeah really yeah I mean nothing
has ever one person but yes it was
myself and a few other people that went
and pitched this the first day we
pitched it SAR we got ourselves funding
and we started building this product um
in fact we didn't even know what the
solution was on day one we just knew
what the problem was and we went hard at
trying to understand what the best
mechanism to solve that problem looked
like so one part of the problem was that
when you put your Wi-Fi router on the
floor behind the TV that is the worst
place you can put it to make it work
well we knew that if we could find a
design that allow you to take the piece
of hardware and put it on the Shelf next
to the TV or somewhere at like shelf
level you can double the performance of
the Wi-Fi in someone's home just by that
simple change if you could make it so
not ugly that they're not inspired to
hide
it you you double the performance so the
first thing we challenged ourselves to
do was how do we make a
[Music]
router project so we did one project the
first version of the other we called
Google onhub and it had these detachable
sort of like sleeves that went over them
and we worked with artists to build
custom beautiful pieces that would
attach to the router and it made it look
like a piece of art we made these
gorgeous
bamboo um covers we made you know our
standard ones were white or blue or
black and you know they were kind of
generic looking but they're they looked
like a vase more than they looked like a
router with or a spa an alien
spaceship and that change alone made a
huge difference in the performance of
the product so you can think about
solving like problems but a big piece of
the problem is how do you inspire people
to use your product in the right way and
that isn't always easy and So speaking
about solving the right
problem so what are in your
opinion the uh needed skills that a PM
has to have so if you have to choose
just one skill that the product
management product manager has to have
what would it be
empathy okay no question so being able
to listen carefully to people to
understand the problems that they're
having with technology or the problems
that they're having in whatever domain
it is that you're working in is the
single most important skill a product
manager can have because it helps you
understand what the right problem to
solve is because you're going to be
pouring your life into solving a problem
you want to make sure
that and if you if you don't have user
empathy you end up
with uh this sort of Trend in PM that
I've been a little bit frustrated by
over the last couple years and I and I
talk about the the PM that's become the
ab automaton who struggles with
understanding user needs to the point
where they look at every problem as a
math
experiment so how do I put up two
options and just let the data sort out
which is best and to some degree that
frees you from having user Insight or
frees you from developing intuition
about user needs based on core user
feedback or user
research um now once you've developed
really good ideas and it's unclear which
one is going to perform better that's a
great experimentation setup um so don't
mistake me saying like you shouldn't be
doing AB testing or that you shouldn't
be doing um experimentation models for
deciding best outcomes no what I'm
saying instead is that can't be your
only
tool you have to have user empathy which
leads to user understanding and in
intuition to develop the right things to
test because if you purely use an AB
Model the risk of finding a local Optima
instead of a global Optima is Extreme
and there's all sorts of problem product
problems that you create if all you find
are local Optimum can you please clarify
for the audience what's the differ
between local Optima and Global Optima
yeah so a local Optima would be a
solution that solves
uh the problem for your current users so
if your current users are running into a
given
issue it may be the hill that is on the
horizon that you can see it's the
biggest hill that you can see from your
neighborhood right and if the only place
you've ever explored is your
neighborhood that hill on the horizon is
the biggest mountain in the world to you
so you're going to spend or maybe you're
going to dream about climbing that
mountain one day the problem is when you
get to the top of that mountain and now
you can see beyond that Horizon that you
grew up in you you get to see out on the
horizon hey there's another bigger Hill
over there now if you spent your entire
life building this identity to get to
the top of that one Hill in your local
local
town and later discover that there's
another bigger one well you've got to
reset your expectations change your
approach train in a different way
perhaps but if all along you started
talking to Travelers who'd seen beyond
your neighborhood or spoken to um you
know people who have looked at Maps or
whatever you may know that there's a
bigger a bigger Hill to go climb so the
the risk of climbing a global Optima or
I'm sorry a local Optima instead of a
global optimization is that you're
climbing the wrong
Hill so the only way to make sure you're
climbing the right Hill is to challenge
your assumptions
get out beyond your beyond your comfort
zone don't just talk to your current
customers talk to your prospective
customers talk to that adjacent Market
that one day you aspire
to uh aspire to serve and if you find
that there's overlapping needs between
the adjacent Market you want to serve in
your current market you may discover
that there's a bigger Mountain to go
climb that actually SS both needs
better and the biggest risk is spending
all of your time climbing too small than
but Ron since you you lead the program
inside Google you know to switch career
and you I think you seen thousands of
people changing their role and now
you're talking about the risk of going
after local
Optima was coming to my mind that since
a lot of companies work with okr and one
basic rle about okay R if if you set a
goal and you already know how to achieve
that goal is not a good goal but
actually is the way which people tend to
reason you know tend to think because
they think and they think exactly in
that moment about the execution of the
plan how can you
reverse this kind of thinking that is
very dangerous for product people
especially yeah I think we should be
very careful how we use okrs I've seen
many many teams use them poorly um you
know I think they go sideways or they go
poorly when teams use them like a to-do
list for the quarter here's all of the
things on my action list that I want to
try to accomplish this quarter and let
me see how I can frame them as key
results of an objective when they're
done well you are deeply thoughtful
about what the big objective what the
big goal for your company or your
business or your product is and then you
use that to set targets
that allow you to take measurable steps
forward towards that so if your
objective is set to the right
Mountain knowing okay on on quarter one
I'm gonna make it to this Milestone
along the way I'm going to try to get to
this I'm G try to get to base camp at
the end of at the end of quarter one and
from base camp that'll have taught me
what it means to carry my pack to do
whatever it is at quarter two I'm going
to make it up to
the next major sort of Camp destination
along the way to that mountain but it
only works when your objective is set to
the right mountain and where you can
make measurable steps towards it
oftentimes when you're working in a very
new space it's unclear what the right
objectives truly are so you want to
leave yourself enough space in your
schedule to explore and to be wrong it's
okay to change your objective
if you're changing it because you
learned something new that told you you
know what I'm climbing the wrong
Mountain let's fix this based on what
we've learned from our users or what
we've learned from the market to point
in the right
direction um ideally if your objectives
are well written you don't have to
change the objective part but the key
results part May adjust um when
objectives are poorly written you
oftentimes change the whole thing or you
do it because you have kind of a poorly
defined product strategy or a poorly
defined set of tactics for achieving
that
strategy
so just like any other tool they can be
used well and they can be used poorly so
I'm not the biggest fan of the way a lot
of people use okrs but I do think that
they're an important conversation point
for getting teams aligned on what the
goals are and how we plan to achieve
them and that's a big part of what a
product manager is supposed to do right
align your team on the goals and the
journey to get there talking about
climbing what was the most challenging
moment of your career so the moment in
which you thought okay I'm I'm
not going to do that I'm not gonna
achieve my
goal I've got a good one I think so I
learned an awful lot from the exper this
experience
and if uh if anybody else is a fan of
kbd Marquez does some of the absolute
best Technology reviews in the business
he's extraordinary what it does and just
somebody I really admire so I've had a
few opportunities for him to review
products I've built and some of them
gone great one in particular did not go
well at all in fact it went so poorly
that in his recent so he gave a review
of The Humane pin a couple couple months
ago and it was was not kind uh well I
mean it was fair but people people had a
reaction to it so he filmed a follow-up
video that talked about hey his job is
to be honest his job is to tell you what
he observed how it worked what works
what doesn't about products that are
launched his job is not to like be a
hype man for a product and I thought it
was a great video was totally fair in
that video however he takes another
another swing at a product that I built
called the Google pixel slate
and if you go back and look at reviews
for the Google pixel slate they were not
they were not very good and there's a
number of reasons that led to this but
fundamentally the the core problem was
that we were unable to get the
performance of the
product uh from a software and Hardware
combo basis up to the level that it
deserved before it was shipped and part
of that is we or I made the mistake of
not pulling the andon saying this isn't
ready before before we put it into user
hands and there's a Temptation in
product management to get something into
someone's hands as quickly as possible
so you can learn faster right so there's
always this temptation to ship too early
and do that as a learning process it's
extra hard to do in Hardware but in
Hardware where the software um can still
be updated there's still that Temptation
it isn't free so
a moment when I said a I really
that up was around uh the Google
pixel slate and so we launched it too
soon six months after we shipped it we
had resolved basically all of the issues
that were observed in the initial review
perform better certain components that
weren't working well were were much
faster um we didn't have to make any
hardware changes but we did make quite a
few Focus software
changes um yeah so that was that was a
moment of eating crow right we the
reviews came out and they were not
great and as a result the sales weren't
great either and uh we had to take a
hard look at what we missed in order to
have allowed that to ship in the state
that it was and part of it was the
review devices that we had sent out were
of a certain skew and I think some of
them were carrying a lower performance
uh CPU part than the ones that most of
were using on a day-to-day basis in our
own internal testing so we were using a
higher performance one than the one that
we were sending out to reviewers and as
a result there was a mismatch between
our own experiences using the device and
what we were handing to people for them
to review and that Gap was much bigger
than we had realized or anticipated and
that caught us and then there were
issues and bugs so I guess the takeaway
here is at the end of the day you are
accountable for the product you put in
the user's hands and it has to meet
their high expectations from day one so
the days where you can launch something
that's sort of mostly done and then fix
it in post as you were um are largely
passed people are are they expect a high
degree of Polish and they want to see it
continue to improve but at the same time
you can't put something that's not quite
done into someone's hands and it's your
job as a product manager to be that
checkpoint you're not the person you're
not just a cheerleader for your product
you are also the gatekeeper for your
users getting a great product and that
second piece sometimes gets forgotten
and that's that's a big lesson I learned
from it okay last
question but your answer doesn't have to
be very long because you're going to
talk about that at the prodos conference
in Milan yes so you are in a perfect
spot working in AI products like
teaching product management that
newcomers at Google with 17 year
experience on Hardware software and a
lot of product so the question is what
are your
predictions for the future of product
management and which Trends do you see
that are going to you know influence the
way which product management is Led
today so I think the first and most
important Trend in product management is
one that has long been true and I don't
think is going to change I think less
will change in this front than anything
you ECT and it's leadership uh all of
the good things in my career have come
because I've had the opportunity to work
for fantastic leaders and if I spent all
of my time and energy learning
technology at the expense of learning
leadership there's no way that I'd be
where I am leadership is a set of skills
that in product management carry an
awful lot of weight but in life are
valuable every bit of leadership skill
you build every bit communication skill
you build will be even more valuable in
the future than it is
today conversely every piece of
technology you learn is almost certainly
going to be out of date in a few years
so if you have to make a very targeted
set of Investments for your own personal
career growth leadership is number
one technology is useful for expressing
your ideas more capably but leadership
and communication are never going out of
style you will never go wrong by
becoming and investing in yourself to
become a better leader so number one
surround yourself with the best leaders
you know when you thinking about taking
a new job consider first and foremost
who are the leaders you'll work for and
what can I learn from them what are the
skills I want to model that they
demonstrate and use that as criteria
number one criteria number two is like
is there a meaningful opportunity to go
make a difference but that is um I think
even secondary to the first one is who
am I going to learn from and how can I
learn from them so that's Trend number
one leadership is not going away so
invest in it Trend number two is not
going to surprise you at all I think
it's Ai and AI as a superpower to our
profession
so ai's got a lot of hype right now
there's a lot of things that it can do
you know the the so when chat gbt burst
onto the scenes in
2022 which is shockingly only two years
ago though it feels like a decade in
terms of product
advancement um the reality of it is that
these are are powerful new tools that
you can use in your everyday life in
order to become a better product manager
and I I'll give one example of this um
we have a number of of experiments that
we've launched on on labs. Google one is
a tool that does image generation it's
called image effects and it's available
um in 109 markets as of now potentially
more over the course of the year but
when you have a user base that large
understanding what they're doing with it
and building your own intuition based on
it is extremely difficult so one way
that you can use new AI capabilities to
understand your product better is by
trying and trying to integrate AI
capabilities into your workflow more
often so the other day I was in inspired
to try to understand what
trends exist for the things folks are
prompting out of the
image um out of the image effects tool
that we've built so like what are they
trying to make when they're making
images just broadly speaking not any
individual but like as a macro trend of
all of the users what are the prompt
formats that they're using like is it
this kind of character in this situation
with this style Etc and there isn't a
simple way to for that in a database so
we have a small population of of prompts
which we've stripped any potential pii
from that I used to run a similar
analysis to this so internally we have
access to um the newest versions of
Gemini and today's public version of
Gemini has uh I think we just announced
the 2 million token context window so
two million tokens is a ton so uh I did
a bit of analysis I can put about 50 to
60,000 prompts into that into that
context window and based on those
prompts I can run an
analysis
of one of these Trends I can ask Gemini
to read 60,000 of something and give me
a summary of what are the what are the
different themes you're looking at what
are the different pieces what are the
formats what are the structures if I had
to build a template what might it look
like and I can phrase these questions in
ways that would be very challenging for
me to do using
SQL
right I could do it but it would take me
a lot of time to write that query
instead now I can get quick insight and
quick understanding on massive data
piles to help me build a better product
so I'm using that to understand how
might we provide better prompting tools
to people so that they can get the idea
that's in their head out into an image
more effectively and early experiments
are showing that this is potentially
extremely powerful and extremely helpful
as a capability so I think broadly
speaking with AI we're still in the sort
of what I call as the HTML era of the
technology which you know you have to
really know how to write HTML or write a
prompt in order to make a great looking
web page or a great output I think this
is a temporary Zone we're working in
over time these tools are going to find
their ways into
more sort of more useful UI
you'll go into like a wizzywig or what
you see is what you get Era followed by
a more interactive era and I think
fundamentally we're going to find
ourselves a few years from now in a
world where AI is integrated deeply into
many more of the ways we work and the
percentage of time that we spend
doing you know the repetitive parts of
data analysis the repetitive parts of
understanding our users the repetitive
parts of sourc all of the uh information
we need in order to do our jobs well
will melt away and we'll be left with a
version of product management that is
much more deeply focused on our ability
to empathize with our users recognize
new technology opportunities for solving
problems and focus on how do we create
these Solutions more effectively so if I
was a product manager today and I am I
would be encouraging all of you to find
ways and places to use AI to do
something in your
job right it probably won't be perfect
and I can attest the fact that it
definitely won't be perfect but the pure
fact of you forcing yourself to do it
more often will teach you where its
limitations exist and how you might be
able to use it next time better because
the second actually I say the third leg
of my thing leadership is number one one
learn how to use AI number two number
three for us is going to be that our
users are going to be a little hesitant
to understand and learn what AI is so
we're going to need to be extremely good
communicators about why these tools are
useful for our users so how do we
communicate to our users the power that
these tools now imbue them with in
meaningful and helpful ways you can only
do that if you deeply understand your
user problems and you deeply understand
what the technolog is good at great at
and bad at so you've got to become that
sort of that guide for your users
understanding how these products you're
building which will be imbued with AI at
one point or
another can help them more effectively
as a result of this technology so that's
your job as a PM
lead understand your users understand
the technology and then communicate why
that technology helps your users solve
their problems okay
thank you very much Tron I'm just
counting the hours to meet you in Milan
in
October and thanks again for the
interview my pleasure Marco I'm very
excited for for October and uh if you
haven't signed up yet to to come join us
please do I'd love to I'd love to meet
more of you there when we're
there great
the podcast
[Music]
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