Christian Man Is Deceived By Paul And The Church | Mansur | Speakers Corner

Summary

The dialogue explores deep theological questions surrounding the nature of Jesus Christ, the Trinity, and the authenticity of biblical scriptures. The discussion contrasts Christian and Islamic views on God's omniscience and divinity, touching on the complexities of Jesus' divine and human natures. It also delves into the exclusion of certain gospels, questioning the motivations behind the formation of the New Testament canon and whether the church distorted the true message of Jesus. The debate is rich in theological inquiry, aiming to challenge traditional Christian interpretations and raise critical questions about biblical accuracy and divine authority.

Takeaways

• 😀 Jesus grew in wisdom and knowledge, suggesting he started without full divine knowledge and learned during his earthly life.
• 😀 The question of whether Jesus was omniscient from the beginning is discussed, with the view that Jesus may have temporarily given up certain divine attributes, like knowledge, to experience human limitations.
• 😀 The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in essence, but there is a debate about whether they are equal in all respects, such as authority and knowledge.
• 😀 The conversation explores the possibility that Jesus, despite being fully divine, might not have known everything, particularly in reference to the end times, where he states only the Father knows the hour.
• 😀 The idea of God's omnipotence is challenged when discussing the Father's ability to 'keep secrets' from the Son, given their oneness.
• 😀 There is confusion about the nature of the Trinity, with the speaker asserting that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in nature but distinct in roles and authority.
• 😀 The idea that Jesus was both fully divine and fully human is explored, with questions about whether the Father shares a human nature or body like the Son.
• 😀 The script raises the question of whether Jesus, as God, could have given up certain divine attributes, such as omniscience, and what that means for his humanity.
• 😀 The discussion turns to the canon of the New Testament, questioning why certain gospels, like the Gospel of Peter or the Gospel of Thomas, were excluded from the Bible.
• 😀 The concept of the Bible's infallibility is debated, with one side arguing that if the Bible contained mistakes, it should be rejected, while the other side suggests that the inclusion or exclusion of certain texts is based on historical and theological decisions.

Q & A

Why does the speaker question the divinity of Jesus in relation to his knowledge?

The speaker questions the divinity of Jesus because of the idea that Jesus, though divine, may not know certain things (like the exact time of the end of the world). This is seen as a challenge to the traditional understanding of omniscience in the context of the Trinity.

How does the speaker understand the relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the Trinity?

The speaker seems confused by the doctrine of the Trinity, particularly the idea that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct yet share the same divine nature. They struggle with how this works in practice, especially when it comes to their roles and knowledge.

What is the significance of the exclusion of certain gospels (such as the Gospel of Peter and Gospel of Thomas)?

The speaker believes that the exclusion of certain gospels might imply that the church fathers manipulated or altered the message of Jesus by excluding writings that could contain important or truthful insights about his life and teachings.

Why does the speaker question the authority of the church fathers in determining the New Testament canon?

The speaker questions the church fathers’ authority because they believe that the inclusion of certain gospels and the exclusion of others (like the Gospel of Peter) may reflect human biases or errors, potentially distorting the true message of Jesus.

What does the speaker believe about the accuracy of the Bible, considering the exclusion of certain texts?

The speaker seems to believe that the Bible, as it is presented today, may not be entirely accurate because it excludes some gospels that could contain essential truths about Jesus. They suggest that the exclusion of these texts could have been a deliberate attempt to hide or obscure important teachings.

How does the speaker view the role of the church in shaping Christian doctrine?

The speaker views the church as potentially being responsible for distorting or controlling Christian doctrine by selectively determining which texts are considered authoritative and which are excluded. This raises concerns about the authenticity and integrity of the Christian faith.

Does the speaker believe that the church is lying about Jesus Christ's nature?

The speaker suggests that if certain texts were excluded that contain accurate information about Jesus, it could be seen as the church lying or misrepresenting the true nature of Jesus. However, they also acknowledge that this may not necessarily involve altering his divinity but rather other aspects of his life or teachings.

What does the speaker mean by the church not changing the 'deity' of Jesus?

The speaker suggests that although the church may have excluded certain gospels or writings, the core belief in Jesus’ divinity has not changed. They assert that the divine nature of Jesus remains consistent, despite the possible exclusion of details or teachings that could alter our understanding of him.

What role does the Gospel of Peter play in the speaker's argument?

The Gospel of Peter is used by the speaker as a key example of an excluded text that may contain important insights into the life of Jesus. The speaker argues that if the Gospel of Peter contains truthful information that was not included in the canonical Bible, it could suggest that the church deliberately withheld key teachings.

How does the speaker reconcile the possibility that the Gospel of Peter might contain 'correct' information?

The speaker concedes that there is a possibility the Gospel of Peter could contain truthful information about Jesus, and if that were the case, the church’s decision to exclude it would imply an intentional distortion of the truth about Jesus, even though this might not necessarily relate to his divinity.