Elon Musk to Jordan Peterson: “Life had no Meaning”

Summary

Dans ce script, l'interviewé partage sa quête de compréhension plus profonde de l'univers, motivée par une crise existentielle de son adolescence. Il discute de la philosophie de la curiosité, de l'importance de poser les bonnes questions et de la croissance de la population comme expansion de la conscience. Il aborde également les dangers de l'intelligence artificielle et la nécessité d'engager la technologie dans un sens bénéfique pour l'humanité. Son expérience personnelle, y compris sa difficile enfance, l'a conduit à valoriser le pardon et à rejeter la vengeance, influençant ainsi sa perspective sur la vie et les valeurs.

Takeaways

• 🔍 L'individu discute de sa motivation pour explorer et améliorer notre compréhension de l'univers.
• 🌟 Il mentionne l'importance de la curiosité et de la philosophie pour guider ses actions et sa recherche.
• 🧠 Il a eu une crise existentielle pendant son enfance, cherchant des réponses dans les textes religieux et philosophiques.
• 📚 Il a été influencé par l'œuvre de Douglas Adams, qui suggère que la quête de questions est plus importante que la recherche d'answers fixes.
• 🌱 Il croit que l'augmentation de la population est bénéfique car elle élargit la conscience et permet de poser plus de questions.
• 🌐 Il aborde la notion que la réduction de la natalité est souvent un effet du prospérité et peut mener à l'effondrement des civilisations.
• 🤔 Il questionne la culture actuelle qui peut être perçue comme antagoniste envers la naissance, considérant cela comme pathologique.
• 🧬 Il souligne l'importance de la recherche de la vérité et de la science plutôt que de suivre des idéologies ou des dogmes.
• 💡 Il compare la quête de compréhension de l'univers à une religion de la curiosité, où l'ignorance est acceptée mais combattue activement.
• 🛡️ Il défend l'idée que l'engagement dans le développement de l'intelligence artificielle est préférable à être un spectateur passif.

Q & A

Quelle est la motivation derrière l'engagement dans de nombreuses directions simultanément?

La motivation est de chercher une meilleure compréhension de l'univers et de poser encore plus de questions à ce sujet, ce qui peut être poursuivi à l'infini.

Quelle est la signification de l'augmentation de la population selon l'orateur?

L'augmentation de la population signifie l'expansion de la conscience et de l'intelligence collective, avec plus de personnes et de cultures contribuant à cette expansion.

Comment l'attitude négative envers la naissance est-elle perçue par l'orateur?

Il est considéré que l'attitude négative envers la naissance est pathologique et devrait être remise en question.

Quels sont les principes fondamentaux de la philosophie de l'orateur?

Les principes fondamentaux incluent l'acceptation de l'ignorance, le désir d'améliorer la compréhension de l'univers et la valorisation de la curiosité.

Quelle a été l'influence de Douglas Adams sur les idées de l'orateur?

Douglas Adams a influencé l'orateur en lui faisant réaliser que la question est plus importante que la réponse, et que la quête de connaissance est essentielle.

Pourquoi l'orateur croit-il que la quête est plus importante que la réponse finale?

Il est convaincu que la quête est essentielle car elle permet de poursuivre l'engagement et le développement, plutôt que de se complaire dans une réponse finale qui pourrait être insatisfaisante.

Quelle est la relation entre le Sermon sur la Montagne et la recherche de sens selon l'orateur?

Le Sermon sur la Montagne encourage à viser le plus haut, à reconnaître la valeur intrinsèque de tous les êtres humains et à se concentrer sur le moment présent, ce qui est en harmonie avec la recherche de sens dans le processus.

Comment l'orateur perçoit-il l'intelligence artificielle et son impact sur l'humanité?

Il considère que l'intelligence artificielle a pour but de créer une super-intelligence numérique, et que participer à son développement offre une chance de l'orienter vers un développement bénéfique pour l'humanité.

Quelle est la position de l'orateur sur le moral relativisme et l'idéalisme?

L'orateur est critique envers le moral relativisme et l'idéalisme, arguant que les systèmes de croyances peuvent être évalués en fonction de leur capacité à améliorer la compréhension de l'univers.

Comment l'orateur aborde-t-il le sujet de la chute des civilisations?

Il mentionne que presque toutes les civilisations prospères ont connu une baisse de leur taux de natalité, ce qui pourrait être lié à l'émérgence d'un hedonisme non puni et d'un égocentrisme.

Quels enseignements tire-t-il de son enfance difficile?

Bien qu'il ait connu des moments difficiles, il estime que ces expériences ont apporté des leçons précieuses et l'ont aidé à devenir la personne qu'il est aujourd'hui.

Outlines

00:00

🔍 Quête de compréhension universelle

Le paragraphe 1 explore la motivation profonde derrière l'aspiration à une meilleure compréhension de l'univers. L'interviewé souligne l'importance de poser des questions et d'élargir la conscience, en citant l'exemple de la croissance de la population et de la diversité culturelle. Il aborde également son propre parcours philosophique, qui a commencé par une crise existentielle pendant son adolescence, et comment il a été influencé par différentes religions et philosophies, y compris l'œuvre humoristique de Douglas Adams. Adams a suggéré que la quête de réponses est plus importante que de trouver une réponse définitive, ce qui a été une révélation pour l'interviewé.

05:00

🤔 Accepter l'ignorance et la curiosité

Le paragraphe 2 se concentre sur l'acceptation de l'ignorance et la quête perpétuelle de connaissance. L'interviewé exprime son bonheur après avoir réalisé que la recherche est plus importante que de trouver des réponses définitives. Il compare cette quête à une religion de la curiosité, citant l'ancien dieu Marduk des Mésopotamiens comme un symbole de la lutte contre le chaos et la corruption. L'interviewé discute également de la nature de l'intelligence artificielle et de son potentiel pour devenir une super-intelligence numérique, soulignant l'importance de la participation active plutôt que de rester spectateur.

10:02

🌟 La quête de vérité et la critique des systèmes de croyance

Dans le paragraphe 3, l'interviewé plonge dans la critique des systèmes de croyance, en particulier de la relativité morale et de la postmodernité. Il soutient que les vérités ont des degrés de probabilité et que la recherche de la vérité est essentielle pour améliorer notre compréhension de l'univers. L'interviewé partage également son intérêt pour l'étude de l'histoire et de l'émergence et de la chute des civilisations, en soulignant l'importance de la naissance et de la croissance de la population dans le succès d'une civilisation.

15:03

🙏 Le pardon et l'importance de l'engagement moral

Le paragraphe 4 traite de la notion de pardon et de l'importance de ne pas se laisser guider par la vengeance. L'interviewé discute de sa propre expérience de violence dans son enfance et comment il a appris à ne pas être amer. Il mentionne l'histoire de Job et comment elle a influencé sa compréhension de la foi et de la résilience. L'interviewé conclut en soulignant l'importance de l'engagement moral et de la sagesse dans l'action, en citant l'enseignement de Jésus et la sagesse de ne pas répondre à la violence par la violence.

Keywords

💡Motivation

La motivation est le désir ou la volonté qui pousse quelqu'un à agir ou à atteindre un objectif. Dans le script, l'interviewé mentionne qu'il est motivé par la quête d'une compréhension plus approfondie de l'univers et par la formulation de questions. Cela illustre comment la motivation peut être liée à la curiosité et au désir d'apprendre.

💡Existential crisis

Une crise existentielle est une période de doute profond sur la signification, le but et la valeur de la vie. L'interviewé parle d'avoir vécu une telle crise à l'âge de 11 ou 12 ans, où il a cherché la signification de la vie à travers la lecture de textes religieux et philosophiques, ce qui est un exemple de comment les crises existentielles peuvent conduire à une quête de sens plus large.

💡Douglas Adams

Douglas Adams était un écrivain britannique célèbre, notamment pour sa série de romans humoristiques 'La Guía del Mochilero del Universo'. Dans le script, l'interviewé cite Adams en disant que nous ne savons pas toutes les réponses, ni même les bonnes questions à poser, ce qui souligne l'importance de la curiosité et de la quête de connaissances.

💡Population increase

L'augmentation de la population est mentionnée comme un moyen d'élargir la conscience et d'augmenter le nombre de cerveaux disponibles pour explorer l'univers. Cela montre comment l'interviewé perçoit la croissance démographique comme une force positive pour l'expansion de la compréhension humaine.

💡Religion of curiosity

La 'religion de la curiosité' est une expression utilisée pour décrire un engagement envers la découverte et l'apprentissage sans nécessairement s'engager dans une religion traditionnelle. L'interviewé utilise ce terme pour décrire son propre engagement à explorer et à comprendre l'univers.

💡Digital super intelligence

L'intelligence supérieure numérique fait référence à des systèmes d'intelligence artificielle capables de penser et de raisonner de manière plus avancée que les humains. L'interviewé discute de l'objectif des entreprises IA de construire une telle intelligence, ce qui soulève des questions éthiques et philosophiques sur l'impact de la technologie sur l'humanité.

💡Marduk

Marduk est un dieu de la mythologie mésopotamienne, souvent associé à la sagesse et à la protection contre le chaos. L'interviewé mentionne Marduk comme un exemple d'une figure divine qui symbolise la lutte contre le chaos et la corruption, ce qui reflète son propre engagement à promouvoir la compréhension et l'ordre.

💡Evil

Le mal est une notion complexe qui peut être définie comme ce qui cause le souffre ou l'injustice. L'interviewé parle de son intérêt pour étudier le mal, ce qui montre son engagement à comprendre les forces qui menacent l'ordre et la prospérité de la société.

💡Postmodernism

Le postmodernisme est un courant d'idées qui remet en question la notion de vérité objective et valorise la subjectivité et la diversité des perspectives. L'interviewé critique le postmodernisme pour sa tendance à minimiser la recherche de la vérité, ce qui illustre son propre engagement envers la recherche de connaissances universelles.

💡Forgiveness

Le pardon est le processus de lâcher prise sur la colère ou la rancœur envers quelqu'un. L'interviewé aborde l'importance du pardon comme un moyen de briser les cycles de vengeance et de promouvoir la paix et la réconciliation, ce qui est un thème récurrent dans sa réflexion sur la manière d'interagir avec le monde.

Highlights

The motivation behind pushing in multiple directions is the quest for greater enlightenment and understanding of the universe.

The realization that seeking more questions is a perpetual endeavor for civilization.

The importance of population increase for expanding the scale of consciousness and the number of minds.

The cultural antagonism towards birth is identified as pathological.

The foundation of the speaker's philosophy stems from an existential crisis at a young age.

The influence of reading religious texts and philosophy, including Schopenhauer, during early adolescence.

Douglas Adams' 'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy' as a pivotal book that shaped the speaker's worldview.

The concept that the adventure and the search are more important than finding a final answer.

The Sermon on the Mount's three-part instruction for aiming high, recognizing universal value, and focusing on the moment.

The neuropsychological basis for finding meaning in the process of striving towards a goal.

The idea that the question is more important than the answer in the pursuit of knowledge.

The religion of curiosity as a driving force behind the speaker's motivation.

The ancient Mesopotamian god Marduk as a symbol of vigilance and defense against chaos.

The speaker's vision for AI systems as digital super intelligence that surpasses human intelligence.

The ethical dilemma of participating in the development of AI and the desire to steer it in a beneficial direction.

The critique of moral relativism and the importance of striving for truth in belief systems.

The impact of a rough childhood on the speaker's character and philosophical development.

The historical pattern of civilizations experiencing a decline in birth rates with prosperity.

The concept of existential threats being necessary for moral and societal clarity.

The importance of forgiveness and turning the other cheek as a principle derived from Christian teachings.

Transcripts

so I wondered what's motivated you cuz

you push in so many directions

simultaneously you have to be really

highly motivated to do that and so you

figured out that the question in a sense

was the answer yeah the question or or I

said another way that seeking greater

Enlightenment and a better understanding

of the universe and more questions to

ask about it is something that we can

continue to do as a civilization for

yeah likely forever exactly so depending

on how powerful grock turns out to be

yeah that's so then I thought okay I'll

work on things that improve our

understanding of the Universe I know now

they say like at a base level this is

why I actually think we want a

population increase because population

increase means that there are more

people that we've expanded the scale

more brains man yeah we've expanded the

scale of Consciousness to the degree

there are different cultures we've

expanded the scope of Consciousness how

did you coton on to the fact that

antagonistic attitude towards birth

that's embedded in our culture now was

something that should be called out and

that was pathological I should perhaps

go back to what is the foundation of My

Philosophy because that I think helps bu

up to explain my actions so they when I

was I don't know about 11 or 12 years

old I had somewhat of an existential

crisis because it I there just do didn't

seem to be any meaning in in the world

like I no meaning to life and I actually

read try to read all the religious texts

at that age yes I was a a voracious

reader as a kid I obviously read the

Bible I read the Quran the Torah the

various but on the the Hindu side just

trying to understand all these things

and obviously as a 12-year-old you're

not really going to understand these

things super well but I've just you

understood it well enough to have an

existential crisis when you were 11 or

12 yeah I'm just trying does anyone have

an answer that that makes sense and then

I started getting into the philosophy

books and I read quite a bit of

schopenhauer N and which is quite

depressing to read as a kid yeah i' say

that that's depressing as as an adult

but and uh and none of them really seem

to have to me answers that resonated at

least to me and but then I read Douglas

Adams hit's Guide to the Galaxy which is

really a book on philosophy disguises

humor and what Douglas Adams the point

that Adams tries to make there is that

we don't actually know all the answers

obviously in fact we don't even know

what the right questions are that's

where he has this in in if you read the

book the Earth it is actually a giant

computer to understand

the answer to the the question what is

the meaning of life yeah and comes up

with the answer 42 yeah and feel like

what do it what does that mean it says

oh you actually you don't understand the

the real the thing that's going to take

a computer far more powerful than Earth

is to understand what question to ask

that's simply the wrong question so was

that the key realization that that

question that was that was a fundamental

Turning Point yeah yeah cuz that's it so

that's very interesting because one of

the things that you see constantly

portrayed in R of hero myths across the

world is that the adventure is the thing

and that the search is the thing rather

than there being a final answer as

absurd as 42 might be right there's no

the conclusive answer is something like

deep engagement in the process so so

I'll give you an example of that so in

The Sermon on the Mount the sermon on

the mount's a very detailed set of

instructions yeah so there's three parts

to it the first is aim at the highest

thing that you can possibly conceive of

and keep modifying that so your aim gets

better okay so that's number one number

two is make the presumption that other

people have the same intrinsic value as

you do we have to be careful about that

one okay let's discuss that but it's a

what would you say it's a recognition of

the Universalist value of everyone who's

made in the image of God it's something

like that but the third thing is once

you do those two things you can

concentrate on the moment see and that

seems to be even technically you can

think about this neuros psychologically

if you're looking for meaning meaning is

a form of incentive reward and incentive

reward is dopaminergically mediated and

incentive reward occurs in relationship

to advance towards a goal which is a

form of entropy minimization as it turns

out according to Carl friston who knows

the thing entropy is the ultimate boss

battle Yeah negative emotion signifies

the emergence of entropy and positive

emotion on the dopaminergic side signals

its reduction there's something that's

more complex there because the higher

the goal that you're trying to attain

the more intrinsic value each step

towards it comprises and that's

neuropsychologically accurate it's part

of the wisdom of The Sermon on the Mount

is that if you posit it the highest

imaginable goal then any step towards it

is that captures your attention is also

deeply meaningful and so that's an

answer to what the meaning is of process

rather than say something like 42 and

you said it seems to me that you were

intimating that your Discovery through

Adams that the question was the thing

was key to the resolution of your

existential crisis that's correct okay

so that's part of the reason that you're

motivated to say build grock three and

look in look deeper to understand the

universe okay so once how old were you

when you figured that when you figured

out that the question 13 or something

what did that do to you what did that do

to you I was a I was a lot happier after

that because now it's okay I'm just

going to accept that we are ignorant of

of a great many things yeah and we wish

to be less ignorant and anything we can

do that will improve our understanding

of the universe and make us less

ignorant and have a deeper understanding

of the the universe and even more

questions to answer ask about the answer

that is Universe which is I think Adam's

a central point is good and is this a

religion I don't know maybe it is but I

think it's one I'd call the religion of

curiosity yeah the the ancient god of

the Mesopotamians his name was Marduk

and he was the best defense against

ensuing chaos and state corruption okay

so that's how he was conceptualized okay

mic had eyes all the way around his head

okay cuz he paid attention right and he

spoke magic words okay right and he was

literally for the message he was the

agent that revitalized the tyranical

state and overcame evil and also the

force that dispensed with chaos and

built something magnificent and Cosmic

out of it yeah sounds like a Force for

good yeah the Mesopotamian Emperor so

his job was to embody that Spirit on

Earth and they used to take him out of

the city on New Year's Eve strip him of

his kingly clothing humiliate him they

slapped him the priests and then they'd

ask him to confess all the ways that he

hadn't been a good Marduk attentive and

speaking properly in the previous year

and that's how they renewed The Cosmos

every year and that's New Year

celebration is a derivation of that out

with the old and in with the new and the

Egyptians they worship the I right

you've seen that famous they all seeing

eye of Horus they all seeing eye of

Horus that's the antidote to the eye of

saon by the way cuz you get if you don't

use that Vision if each citizen doesn't

use that Vision it's replaced by the

totalitarian allseeing eye that's a hell

of a thing to know you talked about

delving deeper into the structure of the

universe let's say to answer fundamental

questions like and you are a remarkably

forward-looking person what do you what

the hell do you think you're building

with these AI systems what is this I

think really what what all the AI

companies are aiming to build is uh

digital super intelligence so

intelligence that's far smarter than any

human then ultimately an intelligence

that is far smarter than all humans

combined now now one can say is this a

wise thing to do isn't this dangerous

unfortunately whether we think that or

not it it is being done but really from

standpoint of from my standpoint from

the XI team standpoint we are really we

have the choice of being a spectator or

a participant that's life man yeah be a

spectator or or a participant and I

think if we are a participant we've got

a better chance hopefully of steering ey

in a direction that is beneficial to

humanity so why do you why okay so why

do you trust yourself on that front just

out of that's an important question

right I don't trust myself entirely good

that's yes fair enough okay an ethical

right ethical conundrum because you said

this is happening now the excuse that

something is happening is not irrational

for participating in it but then your

next take is we have the chance to do

this properly let's say Asos to okay

better I think we we from a moral

standpoint we really just need to think

that maybe we've got a chance of it

being better to some degree than what

others are doing and we will strive to

avoid some of the pitfalls or directions

that the others are going in because the

others from what I've seen do not strive

for truth what do they strive for they

strive for they strive to give an answer

but they are I think trained to be

politically correct and the woke mind

virus is woven in throughout them I'm

sure you've seen that yeah definitely

definitely definitely my students used

to ask me when I because I've been

teaching what I've been teaching for

about 40 years and one of the questions

they used to ask me is how I knew that

what I was teaching wasn't just another

ideology cu the postmodern take is all

it is is a plethora of power games and

so there's no rank ordering approaches

to the truth in terms of their ethical

suitability but that's not the game that

you're playing and and obviously would

not agree with with that philosophy why

not the sort of moral relativism what's

convinced you that's not a useful way of

approaching things I think you can look

at a given belief system and critique it

as being uh likely to enhance or

decrease Enlightenment will any given

belief system improve our understanding

of the universe will we learn more

things will we achieve a deeper

understanding of physics and so that's

grounded at least in part in a

scientific framework from the sounds of

it I think there are facts about the

world right there are things that are

just say let's say extremely likely to

be true versus less likely to be true I

think if one thinks in terms of

probabilities about any given sort of

acatic statement then that that's the

right way to think about it now some

things are 99.99% to be true you you can

run experiments you can confirm them and

others are perhaps have a low

probability of Truth 1% likely to be

true or just using extremes here but any

given statement has I think should be

thought of as having unless this should

be thought of as having a probability of

being true or untrue a probability of

being relevant to an argument or not

relevant to an argument we just talking

about the basics of of of cogency here

yeah I didn't study science precisely I

wasn't as interested in the

transformations of the material world so

I'm probably more people oriented than

thing oriented temperamentally so I

started to study evil right so that was

my sure delving Into the Depths because

I wanted to crack that I wanted to

understand if it not so much even

whether it existed because I became

consist convinced of that very quickly

but what exactly that had to do with me

cuz when I was reading history I read it

as a perpetrator and not as a victim or

a hero I try to read history to discern

the facts of what humans did you know

that also has shaped the way that you

act though probably sure I I've read a

lot of history and I try to understand

the rise and po of civilizations and

what do you think makes them fall one of

the things is a decreasing birth rate

which seems to be a natural consequence

of prosperity yeah isn't that strange he

cuz you'd predict the opposite wouldn't

you as far as I know every civilization

that has experienced Prosperity has had

a decline in population there may be a

few exceptions perhaps people can

enlighten me I'll look at this the

comments on this interview to see

perhaps what I can learn but it seems

that from what I've read every almost

every civilization when they become

prosperous their birth rate drops I

think that's a consequence of the

emergence of something like a a nonp

punished hedonistic egocentrism as you

obviously you mean there there certainly

many examples of of civilizations they

become prosperous there is generally a

trend towards Hedonism yeah you can get

away with it if you're wealthy because

the consequences of your don't smack you

on the head instantly precisely if

you're at a civilization under threat

let's say you're there's a if you take

say Rome when they were trying to not

get annihilated by Carthage and they had

Hannibal running around Maring Italy

they didn't have time for Hedonism

Hedonism is not an option we're going to

get destroyed by hanal chip are down

yeah when the when you're under when a

civilization is under stress there's

very little Hedonism that takes William

James said that the modern world needed

a moral equivalent to war he

investigated the religious realm very

deeply and this I think this was in

varieties of religious experience and

that really had an effect on me because

I think that you need something akin to

an existential threat in order to set

you straight I think there's some truth

to that yeah like if it's a let's say if

it's a spoiled child that we everything

who gets that that kid gets everything

he or she wants and you have a Baro

assault and and then R Lodge that is a

civilization that is pro where people

get everything they want I think it's

the right way to think about it

developmentally and neuros pychological

okay you had a rough childhood yeah yeah

like rough and tumble rough childhood

plenty of fights and a father who is a

difficult creature to content with okay

what did that do for you and are you

grateful for it or are you unhappy about

it I guess you never know the things

that really made you who you are today

at the end of the day am I on net

grateful for my life I am and perhaps

even for the the hard things because

those hot things I learned from them

what did you learn I read your auto your

biography it's not an autobiography no

it's not no no definitely not I would

tell it in a different way than isacon

because isacson who I think is an

excellent biographer is not nonetheless

looking at things through his lens and

wasn't there at the time of course of

course one of the things that stood out

for me too though from that and I would

like your comments about this was the

rather the rough details of your

childhood a lot of physical altercations

and a lot of I don't know exactly how

altercations I mean I was almost beaten

to death within an inch of my life at

one point that counts that definitely

counts as ays a few blows here and there

yeah so what did that okay why weren why

aren't aren't you bitter about that cuz

that's a pathway that people take I I

think that there there are one one can

take and often people do take the path

of Vengeance yeah that's for sure yeah

or that's what antinatalism is yeah to

say to feel that the world has treated

them unfairly and that they will visit

upon the world that which the world has

visited upon them and justified by

recourse to the reality of their own

suffering ex which is often intense so

the story of Job one of the things I

concluded from the story of job because

it's a precursor to the crucifixion

story so job makes two decisions the

first decision is that no matter how

Terrible Things become for him he will

not lose faith in himself and the second

is no matter what Horrors are visited on

him by Satan himself he will not lose

faith in the what would you say in the

spirit that gave rise to the cosmic

order no matter what while I'm not a

particularly religious person I do

believe that the teachings of Jesus are

are good and and wise and that there's

there's tremendous wisdom and turn the

other cheek and for a while there when I

was saying I thought that's really a

weak thing to yeah it can be if some

someone and with respect to bullies at

school I think you shouldn't turn the

other cheek you should pump punch on the

nose and then ultim and then thereafter

make peace with them but they need to

stop bullying you and a punch on the

nose will stop that and then thereafter

make peace so sometimes that punch on

the nose is the first step in making

peace with bullies yes it may change

their career from being a bully to

perhaps they shouldn't be doing such

things but yeah I think this anyway so

this notion of forgiveness is important

it's I think it's essential because if

you don't forgive then as the I forget

who said it but an i for an i makes

everyone blind if you're going to seek

Vengeance and and you have this never-

ending cycle of Vengeance there are

anthropological speculations that we

were caught in a 350,000 year cycle of

not getting anywhere after modern human

beings emerged precisely because of that

because we couldn't get out of

accelerating tit fortat Revenge Cycles

right yeah so I'm a big believer in in

in the principles of Christianity I

think they're very good so in what sense

then are you not religious