An Honest Conversation With Elevation Church’s Copywriter

Summary

Nikki Sheerer, who oversees language and messaging for Elevation Church, discusses developing an accessible church voice and style guide to unify communications across a large ministry. She explains tailoring language for different audiences based on familiarity with church culture, strategically using platforms like social media, and practically applying scripture. The goal is extending genuine invitations that meet people where they are, then lead them to a place of greater understanding.

Takeaways

• 😊 Nikki oversees Elevation Church's brand voice and language guides to unify communication across the organization
• 📝 Elevation aims for their church voice to be casual, concise, and conversational to be accessible to a global audience
• 👂 Pastor Steven's direct preaching voice differs from Elevation's more nuanced brand voice tailored to various audiences
• 🔎 When tragedy strikes, Elevation comments if it connects to their values or local community otherwise they opt out
• 🎯 For Easter, Elevation focuses messaging on inviting unchurched people rather than using insider language
• 💡 To give feedback, Nikki references their brand voice values, explains why something is unclear, and makes suggestions
• 📱 Elevation finds Facebook and Instagram most effective for ads while experimenting cautiously with TikTok
• 🙌 Nikki aims for ad copy to be approachable yet substantive rather than generic or silly based on the target demographic
• ❤️ Though not a traditional pastor role, Nikki sees her work as highly pastoral by empathizing and guiding Elevation's voice
• 👥 Four key questions guide Nikki: who is the audience, what do I want them to hear/do, and how do I want them to feel

Q & A

What is the mission of Elevation Church?

The mission of Elevation Church is 'We exist so that people far from God will be raised to life in Christ'.

What are the 3 characteristics Nikki uses to describe Elevation Church voice?

The 3 characteristics Nikki uses to describe Elevation Church voice are: casual, concise, and conversational.

How does Nikki differentiate between Pastor Steven Furtick's voice and Elevation Church voice?

Pastor Furtick's voice tends to be more direct, while Elevation Church voice aims to provide more context and application for people. Furtick speaks to a wider audience beyond those attending the church.

What does Nikki say is the most important thing for Elevation Church at Easter?

According to Nikki, the most important thing for Elevation Church at Easter is inviting new people to attend the church service.

What guiding principle does Nikki describe for developing language at Elevation Church?

Nikki says an important guiding principle is that 'anyone can be a part of our church' - people should not feel excluded by the language used.

How does Nikki decide what Elevation Church should post about national events?

Nikki says they will comment on events connected to their values, ministry partners, or local areas where they have a campus. They try not to just make token posts about events.

Why doesn't Nikki use the word 'resurrection' when speaking to new people about Easter?

She says resurrection is not a word used in everyday conversation for people unfamiliar with church. So concepts like Jesus coming back to life can be explained without potentially excluding language.

What 4 key questions does Nikki use to guide her communication?

The 4 questions are: 1) Who am I speaking to? 2) What do I want them to hear? 3) What do I want them to do? and 4) How do I want them to feel?

What are some of Elevation Church's main advertising platforms?

Nikki mentions platforms like Facebook, Instagram, Spotify and Amazon. But she doesn't oversee the full strategy.

What closing advice does Nikki give to churches of all sizes?

Know what you're trying to do, who you're trying to reach, and how you want to communicate clearly. Use tools like Grammarly and AI to aid communication without making things unnecessarily difficult.

Outlines

00:00

😊 Introducing Nikki, who oversees language and copyrighting for Elevation Church

The hosts introduce their guest Nikki Sheerer, who is responsible for Elevation Church's brand voice and language used in communications. She previously worked in social media and children's ministry at Elevation.

05:01

📝 Defining Elevation's brand voice: casual, concise and conversational

Nikki explains that Elevation Church voice refers to the collective voice representing the church as a whole. It aims to be casual, concise and conversational across languages and locations. This is distinct from individual voices like Pastor Steven Furtick's, which is very direct.

10:03

😮 Balancing pastor Steven's voice and Elevation's brand voice

Nikki differentiates between Pastor Steven's more targeted messaging and Elevation's broader churchwide communications. She gives examples of how they might post similar content but position it differently based on the audience.

15:04

🤔 Why differentiate the voices?

The hosts question the value of keeping Pastor Steven's voice separate from Elevation's. Nikki explains they reach different audiences - his is broader beyond Elevation, while the church targets its own members.

20:06

🗣 Casting vision for consistent language

The hosts ask how Elevation gets staff aligned on using the brand voice. Nikki shares they have language guides and gets key leaders' buy-in. Small churches should identify their best writer to spearhead defining their church's voice.

25:06

🧐 Giving constructive feedback on language

Asked to share a specific example, Nikki describes giving feedback to make copy match Elevation's casual, concise and conversational style. She offers tips for giving critical feedback without being hurtful.

30:07

☺️ Talking about Easter for churched vs. unchurched people

When describing Easter to those unfamiliar with church, Elevation avoids insider language, instead clearly explaining Jesus' resurrection. For churchgoers, they focus on outreach and inviting others.

35:10

🙌 Creating special initiative content: book release and Easter

Nikki shares specifics around promoting Pastor Steven's new book release. For Easter, Elevation's priority is inviting unchurched people. She contrasts messaging to church insiders vs outsiders.

40:14

😇 Approaching work pastorally: Who is the audience?

Asked if her work feels pastoral, Nikki shares 4 questions that guide her to communicate appropriately to different audiences based on who they are, what they should hear/do and how they should feel.

45:14

🌟 Parting words of wisdom: Focus on excellence regardless of resources

In closing, Nikki encourages ministries to clearly define their goals and audiences without needing lots of people or money. She recommends tools like Grammarly and AI to maximize focus on excellence.

Keywords

💡language style guide

A language style guide provides guidelines and standards for how language should be used in communications from an organization. Nikki is responsible for overseeing Elevation Church's language style guide. This ensures consistency and alignment across all church communications and initiatives. For example, the guide likely specifies formatting for dates/times, capitalization, word choice, etc.

💡brand voice

Brand voice refers to the unique tone and style that an organization uses across all its communications. Elevation aims to have a distinct churchwide brand voice that is "casual, concise and conversational". Nikki helps define and enforce this voice across writings from different church leaders and departments.

💡feedback

The ability to give constructive feedback on language use is key to Nikki's role overseeing communications. She emphasizes framing feedback based on agreed values/voice rather than personal preference, to avoid being hurtful.

💡social media policies

Social media policies provide guidance to church staff on appropriate posting given the wide reach and visibility of platforms like Facebook. Elevation seems to tie posting decisions to alignment with existing ministries and affected locations.

💡special initiatives

Nikki spends significant time tailoring language and messaging for special seasonal initiatives like Easter invitation campaigns. This requires understanding and appealing to both church insiders and those unfamiliar with church.

💡demographic targeting

A key theme is targeting language and content specifically based on intended audience demographics. For example, campaigns are tailored to both warm active church attendees and cold audiences without any church background.

💡approachability

In areas like advertising and invitation campaigns, Nikki emphasizes the importance of being fun, light-hearted and approachable rather than overly churchy or formal.

💡crossing the line

Nikki explains the need to walk the line between fun and silly tones, giving youth accounts more leeway to "cross the line" into silly territory with things like the Spongebob worship video.

💡pastoral ministry

Though not a traditional minister, Nikki sees her communications/language oversight role as strongly pastoral due to deep concern for connecting with different groups of people about spiritual truths.

💡practical advice

Nikki boils her approach down to basic questions about intended audience, desired takeaways and emotional impact. This helps craft communication for maximum clarity and effectiveness regardless of church size.

Highlights

Elevation Church voice is casual, concise and conversational

Pastor Steven's voice is more direct, gets straight to the point

Elevation Church voice has more context and application for people's lives

Use casual language so anyone can understand and feel welcomed

Focus Easter communication on inviting unchurched people

Mobilize volunteers to invite people 15 minutes before each service

Give volunteers invites and resources to extend personal invites

Have fun with invitations, make it a competition between teams

Advertise Easter on social platforms like Facebook and Instagram

Use kids in ads - they are endearing and make people smile

Ask who you're speaking to, what you want them to hear, do and feel

Use tools like Grammarly and AI to improve communication

Focus on excellence regardless of church size

Let youth accounts be silly while main accounts stay focused

Get Pastor Steven Furtick's new book in audio with bonus content

Transcripts

today on the show we're joined by Nikki

Sherer who oversees all copyrighting and

language for churchwide initiatives at

Elevation Church this means Nikki is

responsible for what elevation says and

how they say it now you might be

familiar with a church style guide for

things like this is our logo and this is

the color we use and this is the font

that we use essentially what Nikki

oversees is a language style guide which

is probably not something your church

has but might be what you need

especially because the words that we use

in person and online do matter a lot

more than our local so let's dive

in well hey there and welcome to the pro

Church tool show we're here to help you

in your church navigate the biggest

communication shift in 500 years I'm

Brady Shir your host I'm joined as

always by my co-host it's Alexander

Mills hello hello and today we're also

joined by Nikki sheerer of Elevation

Church Nikki oversees copyrighting and

language for all of elevation churchwide

initiatives prior to that Nikki was

involved in elevation social media for

about 3 years in children's ministry for

a few years before that and her husband

is also

a campus pastor at one of elevation

locations Nikki welcome to the show

thanks I'm glad to be here I feel like

one of the first things that we should

tackle is our shared last name no we are

not related but surely Nikki you know

the pain uniquely that I feel when

people try to pronounce our last name

it's not easy to add the eer to Shear it

just gets shortened Brady

Shear it's very challenging Nikki I know

one of the things that you oversee at

elevation

is what you described as Elevation

Church voice and I think that's where

I'd like to start our conversation what

exactly is Elevation Church

voice well um it's the way that we speak

um and and as a as a church grows uh the

number of people communicating on behalf

of that church grows as well and and

then there can become a lot of variety

in the way that we see things and all of

that and and so when I speak of

Elevation Church voice um it's a

distinction because we also have uh

Pastor Steven fct's voice and we have

the voice of of our pastor Holly feric

and the voice of our children's ministry

right all these different things and so

when we talk about a collective voice

like Elevation Church voice as opposed

to an individual voice like Pastor

Steven fct's voice it's really different

right because a collective voice

shouldn't sound like one person it

should sound like a group of people in

in essence and so I describe when I

teach it um Elevation Church voice is uh

casual concise and

conversational and and and we developed

that because um our church is a global

Church uh we have a lot of locations but

our ministry is worldwide and and when

you can and when you can give it

parameters like that um that means that

we can have Elevation Church voice in

English or Spanish um we can have it

Elevation Church voice in the United

States or somewhere in Europe and um

because casual is casual in whatever

language or place that you're speaking

it for instance uh you answer one of the

first questions that I wanted to ask

which was how do you differentiate

between Pastor step's voice and

elevation voice are would you say that

obviously the difference exists is the

elevation kind of brand voice inspired

by Pastor stepen and the reason I ask is

because like my exposure to elevation is

so much influenced by like what I see on

my social feed which is mostly going to

be you know sermon clips and things like

that from Pastor Steven so are there

carryovers or are they completely

distinct um there are some carryovers

but they're actually pretty distinct

Pastor Steven's voice is really direct

um a lot of a lot of the quotes the

things that people love that he says um

they're very unique to him and and he

gets straight to the point um he doesn't

he's not very um like soft in his

approach where as as a church sometimes

we want to be um and so uh when the

difference between if you look at Pastor

Steven's social media and the church's

social media they might show you the

same sermon moment for instance but

Pastor Steven social media is going to

show you that sermon moment and and the

caption is going to be direct it's going

to be clear it's probably going to be

really short but the church's uh the

lens that we give it is going to there's

going to be more of a lens to it so

we're going to talk more about like what

does this mean for your life and and how

you can you apply that and and so it's

just taking more of that like active

approach to to really like help people

take it to another

level okay so I guess my big question

then would be what's the value in

keeping them them different I I would

expect I think oh it would be good if

the voices were closer to the same

what's the value for keeping them

separate uh oh gosh there's several um

they have different audiences first

thing um Pastor Stephen there are a lot

of people who follow him who don't

follow Elevation Church um so think of

people who are happily connected to

their own church somewhere else um but

they enjoy watching Pastor Steven's

sermons or they like to follow his

social media because it's encouraging

something like that um so they're going

to engage more specifically with his

sermon content or he just released a

book and be really interested in his

book content and all of that whereas the

church and he's going to occasionally

mention Church things that are connected

to that as well but he recognizes that

his audience is larger than that uh his

audience he's not always trying to get

people to come to our church because

he's also ministering to people who are

already connected in other places uh but

for Church we're trying to show people

how hey we want to talk about this

sermon you can join a small group during

the week and that's not necessarily

something that that's better coming from

the church voice than from Pastor

Steven's

voice I I think one thing I'd like to

demystify for everyone listening is I

think it's probably easy to listen to

what Nikki's describing say hey big

words our church is international we are

reaching this many people we have you

know millions in our audience and

perhaps mistakenly think that having a a

brand Voice or brand guide or a voice

guide that you can share with people on

staff isn't maybe necessary for for your

church you one of the things that we

hear all the time Nikki is like hey man

I was doing an announcement and then the

children's Pastor got up and like they

did not stick to like the idea that we

talked about in staff meeting and so I

would love to hear from you how do you

cast vision from like a language side

those three C's are excellent how do you

get a church of your size to stay on

message because I'm sure if you can

describe how you do it we can apply that

in a church of any size yeah um I think

maybe we're going to talk about this

later but and there are a lot of

different ways there's some things that

we have so we have a style guide like

this is the way we do dates and times

right like that kind of a thing and I

think every church should do that um

this is the way that we say our church

name this is this is the way we

capitalize these things um this is the

way that we say um someone's um title on

staff uh because it should be the same

everywhere whoever says it right um so

wherever we put 9:30 a.m. it should look

the same way every time are we uppercase

lowercase we use the periods do we not

use the periods right um it should

always be the same and so so on one hand

we have the style guide that's everyone

across the church this is how we

communicate like this whether it's in an

email or social media this is the way we

say these things separate from that um

when we talk about specific things like

we're about to I just got out of a

meeting for Easter right and so when we

talk about Easter how are we going to

talk about that um how are we going to

see that churchwide what are what are

the what are the things we're going to

put around that and so so we create a

guide for everyone to use um in uh we

call those language guides and and

they're so helpful because um you you

create this resource and you get it in

the hands of everyone who will be

communicating and then they have

parameters to stay in for that Nikki

this is this conversation is already so

fascinating because uh to a lot of the

folks listening I'm sure the idea of a

style guide is really familiar and

that's most often a visual element how

do we want these things look how do we

how do we type 9:30 a.m. right with the

periods or without uh but talking about

a language guide it's it's really

fascinating and and really appropriate

I'm I'm I'm confident that a lot of us

who work in church are thinking like oh

yeah I wish that everyone on staff or

all the volunteers would talk about this

thing that we really want to talk about

the way that we want to talk about it

and so I I want to talk a little bit

more about your language guys in a few

in a few moments but I want to just take

one step back and just hear a littleit a

little bit from you like you're talking

about how you instill this language once

you have it but I'm C ious how do you

mind this language out in the first

place like how do you discern what

Elevation Church voice is at all well I

mean I didn't decide that that was

decided before

I um uh but I I think um I think that

we're careful to so our church just

celebrated our 18th anniversary right

and and so the the way that we say

things that we said things 18 years ago

and the way we say them now like what we

might call casual 18 years ago and what

we call Casual now I just think you have

to always be kind of like uh self-

policing that um like hey this is

getting this language is getting tired I

know this is like this sounds like us

but and so I think there has to be

someone who owns it and again this works

for a small church right who on your

staff is good at

writing that's really all it is uh

there's probably someone who is better

at it than everyone else um and and so

so give them the re on it and then and

then get the and then get the important

voices in the room right so then you've

got you've got your pastor you know uh

your your area directors whatever it is

um and say like hey what do you guys

think about this how does this resonate

with you and and and and then if you can

have a person who's leading it and you

choose of the person who's deciding on

it who's making the decision and then

you get the key influencers in the room

you can hash it out and land on some

things that you all feel good about and

then if everyone agrees on the direction

um then you really got something

unifying there a couple weeks ago we

were talking with uh Transformation

Church and they used similar language

they said uh the guy we were talking to

said look there always has to be a hater

in the room someone that can say you

know and and you're you you use the word

policing so I'd really like for you if

you would to put on your kind of

Sergeant sheerer uh cap cap for us can

you tell us about like an actual time

the more granular the better where

you're like hey this is the language we

used here's why it doesn't align with

what weed and here's what we to it to

inad because I think this can get AIT

esoteric for people that maybe unlike

you and who like in copyrighting day in

day out so the more like practical I

think it helped land the plane a bit for

folks yes so this is my job I I do it

every single day so uh a lot of a lot of

what I do is I give feedback on copy

that I see come through right so someone

might

feedback and so but this is that leasing

right is that I get to be the person who

um who watches out for our voice in the

sense we've got an email going out to

thousands of people right and and and

when I see the copy for it uh there

might be something in there that's it's

not clear um you know like this the

communication feels a little bit muddy

or something like that or or it's uh

it's coming across too formal which is

not Elevation Church voice is not formal

we're casual um that's really important

to us and so uh so whatever it is the

specific thing then I will I will

comment with the um I try really hard

not to ever say like hey this doesn't

sound like us without saying why it

doesn't sound like us so that's like the

really important thing and when you've

got like those those um those kind of

guides those values lining you lining

you up for like hey we all agreed on

this is what we sound like and so when I

read this my perspective is that it's

not clear uh this feels confusing to me

can we make this clearer and so I I

think like just being able to Point

again right back to those this is what

we said our voice is and so to me and

maybe to you this is clear but it's not

to me and so it should be clear to all

of us to anyone who looks at this so

let's let's rework it again to make it

clear is that is that how does that

answer the question yeah and you really

answered the question when you shared

those three you know concise casual and

conversational because you know it's

it's so funny usually the larger

churches have a really good grasp on

this because by necessity if you don't

have a grasp on values that are clearly

cast in the form of vision chaos Reigns

Supreme right and and in smaller

churches we can sometimes get away with

that because like hey it's a small

church family of course it's chaos you

know it's like a regular family it's

just wild but like the larger you get

you have multiple departments multiple

heads you got these people reporting to

these people reporting to these people

you have to have these values lined up

that being said I think for every size

church this is so important what do we

talk about all the time the challenge

when you're working with creatives and

this is creative writing but sharing a

sermon is creative Worship Is Creative

so much of what we do in church is

storytelling and creative how do you

give feedback how are you critical how

do you tell someone okay this needs to

be changed and it sounds like maybe a

big big part of your job is finding ways

to give that critical feedback but it

not being hurtful or offensive and it's

still achieving the end objective that

you want could you talk maybe about like

what are some of the biggest challenges

that you encounter and have to

continually overcome when you're talking

about giving that feedback yeah um and I

know like people don't really love the

word feedback I don't have a better word

for it though um but I um uh so the

first thing I would say is that

especially for my copyrighting team uh

we have values uh for our team and um

and one of them is that we're flexible

um and I kind of having in the

description underneath that like don't

like our first draft want us to take

another shot we'd love to uh we can't

wait to make this better and and I think

when you come in like when I interview

someone I I start right at the gate like

how would it feel for you to um have to

rework every single thing that you have

that you write for us forever right like

there's never going to be a point when

someone's not saying like hey can we try

it this way hey can we do that instead

there's you're never going to like

outgrow the season because we always

want to get better uh we always want to

we're we're eager to hear what someone

else's Viewpoint is on what we wrote and

so so there's never I think when you can

kind of demystify the like I think we

like to think well I just need feedback

for a little while and then it'll get

good enough and I won't need it anymore

right um well then if if no one's

dialoguing with you about your art your

creativity your your talent whatever it

is if you don't have someone dialoguing

with you about it it's probably not

getting better um because you're not

getting an outside voice on it and so I

so just I would say we set the

expectation for from the beginning like

that's how we do it uh we we always have

someone else look at things at least one

other person many things have more than

that um so we've got someone looking

like purely from like oh that grammar is

not correct and then someone else

looking from the like oh that's not uh

we need to add this information that

information is missing and and and so

when you've got like these different

voices in there um uh and you set that

expectation when people are expecting

that then it's not it's not hurtful

right it's not like you don't take it as

personal like this is just part of the

job this is we do this like if I worked

for a newspaper every single thing I

wrote would be

copyedited yeah you know Nikki we sat

down to to chat with you about you know

language guides and and our conversation

has quickly just kind of evolved into

just general leadership in church which

I mean for so many people listening to

the show like these are the things we're

working through how to lead teams and

and right now we're talking about um

policies for language which I mean

you've done such a good job of

articulating how to give feedback in

that space and it's what we talk about

in the show too about having policies

for social media for example and how to

make decisions about what to post and

what not to post well we hold it up

against the policy we've agreed on these

things and so we get to hold it up

against that for for your case in the in

the language Department you have this

policy we are we're casual we're concise

we're conversational and so when you're

giving feedback you get to hold it up

against that and say you know what this

is not clear enough this is not concise

enough um I do want to talk about I want

to transition now a little bit into your

social media policies um and some of the

decisions that you make in and amongst

your team um you know we we have ations

with people on the show all this uh all

the time social media managers folks who

are posting for their churches and and

we we usually get to the point of the

conversation talking about like how do

you decide what to post and what not to

post and in America and a a church of

your influence and your affluence like

something you surely run into a lot is

like when there is a national tragedy

for example like how do we decide what

to post what not to post folks are

looking to elevation for Spiritual

Direction what does what does God say

about this what does our what does the

what do the Christians say about this

and you're one of the churches that

folks are looking to and so I I guess

that's my question is like how are you

making decisions about what to post and

what not to post um when a situation

like that whether National or otherwise

is kind of

unfolding um I I'm going to answer this

really practically and specifically for

you but the first thing I'm going to say

is like you're not going to get it right

every time it's

okay um you seek wise counsel and you

pray about it and you make the best call

that's that's what you do um but but

here's how we decide

um and I will say like we haven't always

gotten it right um there have been times

where we're like ah we should have

posted about that sooner or now we

shouldn't have posted about that one we'

we've self-reflected a couple times like

that um but in general

um we are going to make uh comments that

are connected to our values what matters

to us things um or here's here's I'll be

really practical we have um like

physical locations as well as an online

Ministry and so say um there's a tragedy

um I personally live uh near our Ron Oak

Virginia campus so say uh something

terrible happens in the Rono Virginia

area our church is going to make a

statement about that uh we're going to

we're going to say something that's

going to comfort specifically the people

who are connected to our ministry from

that area that matters to us we've got

people there we minister to people there

that's specific to us um as opposed to

if the same exact thing happened in

another area where we don't have like an

established Ministry maybe we haven't

met people in that City before in person

or something like that then we're less

likely to say a comment about that for

instance we also have like core core

values um related like to our Outreach

specifically and so like for some church

that would look like missions right

maybe you've got like a mission presence

in like a certain area that your church

is just like really connected to and for

us we've got like certain certain

Ministry partners that we partner with

and and so uh what that that Partners

sorry that partnership also um comes out

in like how we speak about things and so

um so it really is it's personal right

so personal is powerful um we're the one

thing that we are pretty committed to is

we're not going to say something just to

say something so uh I'm not going to do

pray hash pray for whatever um we kind

of committed like we're not going to do

that kind of post anymore if we're going

to do that we're actually going to write

The Prayer um I mean I'm not just going

to like try to do like the cool trendy

thing I want to do something that gives

people value or uh or helps them

Comforts them gives them something like

that a church needs to give them right

so that's I mean you mentioned

reflecting on ways that you've missed

before in the past my sense is maybe

you've reflected and be like hey you

know we kind of just did like the token

post there and next time let's do

something that's a bit more substantive

because we don't want to Simply do

something because oh everyone else is

and by us not doing it there's almost

like the sin of mission of us like

opting out of it so if we are we're

going to make it substantive is is that

accurate oh yeah absolutely excellent

okay it's funny because uh we've never

spoken and I don't know about you know

elevation specific policy on this but uh

this is identically what we have shared

for years um in response to people

asking us this happened should we say it

we've always had two simple principles

one does it align with your Church's

existing Ministries specifically so like

if there's something to do with like you

know um young mothers uh oh it's it's

abortion it's something like that and

you have like a huge emphasis at your

church in your Ministries already great

or is it local if it's local then great

if it's neither of those two things you

have like the freedom to just opt out

because it doesn't actually align with

your existing Ministry and so if

anything it could kind of look like

you're you know a front runner and

wanting to jump on the trend just to you

know virtue signal let's uh talk

about special initiatives um you are in

the middle of

book season with Pastor Steven yes it is

the middle six months okay there you go

do you feel like you're coming out of it

are we're getting close to that is the a

little bit yeah uh it's also Easter

season you know you mentioned just

coming out of an Easter meeting uh

Easter's a bit earlier this year but by

the time this goes out it is still pre-

Easter I'd love to hear about like what

are you specifically tackling for Easter

right now like okay this is going to be

a bigger service for most churches what

are some of the things that you have to

get your you know ducks in a row as it

were in respect to

Easter um for us the most important

thing on Easter is inviting people to

church um it is uh it's the Sunday for

us that we have one of the highest

attendance people tend to come to Easter

more than Christmas um and so it's the

it's and I think a lot of that is uh

location specific uh so for instance uh

how people are going to come in the

Southern United States as opposed to

Canada that will probably be different

right and so so you have to apply this

to your to your own scenario but um but

for us we know that we tend to see

people um more easily come to church on

Easter and so knowing that uh we try to

capitalize on the opportunity um the

mission of Elevation Church We Exist so

that people far from God will be raised

to life in Christ that's our mission and

and so when I think about Easter and I

think about the mission of reaching

people far from God I

and and and what Jesus like Easter and

Christmas are the only two Sundays of

the year that are actually wrapped

around a particular passage in the Bible

right a lot of most of our other Sundays

are whatever the pastor wants to preach

on you know any particular thing or

whatever but but Easter and Christmas

are both around particular biblical

events and so this particular biblical

event of Easter is tied directly to our

mission um and so that's so important to

us and so when I think about how I'm

going to talk about Easter I'm thinking

about talking to people far from God um

so because that's the thing that matters

most to us and so uh so just to like

give you just like a teeny bit of a

glimpse I'm talking all the way from

people who have been in our church for

years and I want them to invite people

to church all the way to people who've

never heard of our church before and

trying to get them to come to church

right people who are unchurched you

might say and so how do I talk to those

two people are really different um but

I'm putting a lot of my focus energy

time resources toward what I would call

the cold audience as people far from God

and so I'm not going to say the word

Calvary not going to say the word

Resurrection I'm not going to say the

blood of Jesus right um I'm not going to

say any of these words that make someone

feel like an outsider this is really

important um an important guiding

principle for how we develop language is

um anyone can be a part of our church it

might not be for everyone everyone might

not like it but anyone can come um you

don't have to understand what we're you

know any fancy language there's not any

prerequisite to be able to come here and

so so when we're thinking about such a

like steeped in Tradition holiday like

Easter and how we talk to someone who's

not steeped in that tradition and how we

get them to connect to it and come to it

that's really important to us that's

such good Insight because I think a lot

of us know this anecdotally that when

we're trying to communicate about

whether it's Easter or anything else

we're doing at church that's where we

get bogged down a little bit is in the

messy middle because we all know

regardless of the size of our church

that we're talking to two distinct

groups of people folks who are either

plugged in at church know the language

know the lingo attend every Sunday and

folks who don't come to church maybe

who've never heard the language or the

lingo but we want them to come to church

on Sunday and so it sounds like maybe

what you're describing is that you are

creating different content pieces for

these two different groups of people is

that is that true and if it is can you

give me an example of um you know one of

each pieces of of content but for the

same

event you boy you're you're you're

playing with my memory here because I

don't have it up in front of me but I

can give you um that's okay I can give

you I can give you a little bit here um

so here's here's a good example um we

were using um the verse and boy you're

really testing my memory here I think

it's John 16 33 but it doesn't matter

the one that says um in this world uh

you will have trouble but take heart

I've overcome the world right that verse

um and and we really love that for

Easter because um it has this tension in

it of like there's going to be trouble

but everything's going to be okay and

the reason everything's going to be okay

is because of Jesus and and so we can we

can take that that tension that we're

talking about and we can talk to our

warm audience um and so I'm going to

talk to them uh from stage on Sunday

right if they're in the room then

they're a warm audience um I'm going to

talk to them in people whose emails I've

already gathered um they've already

engaged with us in some manner I'm going

to talk to them from that that warmer um

angle where I'm going to talk to them

about hey there's someone in your life

who's going through a hard time right

now uh there's someone in your life who

needs the hope of Christ um and they

need to know that even though they're

going through a hard time everything's

going to be okay who are you inviting to

Easter that's how I'm going to say that

to my warm audience but to my cold

audience which is like uh uh ads is a

great spot for this but also like again

I Love Thinking of small Church contact

because I've been in a small Church

before too um I had Church experience

before elevation and and so maybe to you

this is like a social media post that

you boost a little bit right it's just

like a small thing but if you do that

it's going to hit some people who aren't

familiar with your church and that's

going to be a cold audience and so for

them that's going to be more

like uh life is hard right now but

there's hope um come find out why join

us for Easter at elevation um and that's

like maybe a little cheesier than I'd

actually write it but but off the cuff

that's on the spot on the spot that's

good enough that gives you but that

gives you kind of like the difference

right where I'm I'm uh I'm I'm basing it

in scripture I'm pulling out like what

we call like a felt need or attention

and then I'm thinking about how does

that matter the person who's already

coming to church and what action step do

I want them to take I want them to come

and invite somebody how does that matter

to somebody who doesn't come to church

why would they even want to come um and

and so kind of thinking about that both

ways so you talked about the importance

of making this big push for invitation

at Easter bigger than Christmas there's

the existing willingness for folks to

come maybe region specific I'm confident

that a big part of making those invites

is empowering people in the existing

Church to make those invites themselves

personally so are you

like resourcing folks with like hey when

you invite them talk about it like this

all over the

place what does that actually look like

are you handing out pamphlets

like yes I mean we've done this so many

ways so one thing that we do at all of

our campuses is a Elevation Church is

heavily volunteer Le um our our staff at

campuses is low uh there there'll be

like maybe four to 10 Camp staff members

on a campus and so the rest of it is all

volunteers and leaders and um and so we

have a volunteer rally every Sunday and

that's a really um important moment of

investment on our campus um it will be

right before we're expecting guests to

arrive uh most campuses it's 45 minutes

before church and we have this little

this touch base of about 15 minutes and

that right there is a really important

spot where we mobilize people with

information with assets with uh how-tos

with uh we'll have fun with it uh you

know can our children's ministry or our

guest experience team invite the most

people to church let's see how you know

we'll track it we have we have a great

time with it or so we have fun with it

we'll make it really spiritual uh

everyone write down the first name of

the person that you're inviting to

church this Sunday we're going to pray

over them together right now um uh

partner up with the person next to you

uh share the name first name of the

person you're inviting this week pray

over each other so so in our in a really

intimate setting with among our

volunteers that's more what it looks

like

but from stage uh when you're C when

you're communicating to the whole

congregation that looks like hey on your

way out today we're going to give you

five invites to Easter and we want you

to hand these out to five people this

week for sure you know five people that

don't go to church anywhere that you

think might come why not hand them an

invite put it you know put it under

their windshield wi whatever it is I

we'll give them ideas but but just to

kind of give you like the contrast there

of how we would communicate that in

different ways but we really try very

hard um to put resources in people's

hands so uh just like usually they're

like little square invites or something

like that um sometimes they're clever

sometimes they're just really like clear

but beautifully designed um we change

them up but yeah it's that's a pretty

big thing for us okay I got to ask it

really stood out to me when you were

describing language for invitation and I

think it's really important here to

distinguish what Nikki's describing as

the starting point for folks and then

where you eventually get led to to when

you actually attend church and how those

are very very different the starting

point is not the end point but you said

one word we're not going to use in

talking about Easter to folks that don't

know anything about church is the word

Resurrection I think saying we plead the

blood of Christ over you I think it's

understandable why we might not use that

language but it's so common in church to

be like you know what's next week

Resurrection Sunday we often retitle

Easter to put that directly into the

name so can you talk about like the

decision for why not to use something uh

like that for someone that might be like

wait a minute why can't we use

that uh so just to like be clear we'll

use that in church uh you'll hear Pastor

Steven say that you'll hear our host say

that from stage uh where we're not using

that is outside um so uh and that's

because uh Resurrection is not an

everyday conversation if you talk to

someone who doesn't know Christ they are

never going to say the word resurrection

that there just not like it's just not

going to be it's not a word that's in

normal language and so I instead of

saying but they do know what Easter is

they do know Easter Sunday and so so we

don't christianize it in the in the

language to people who are far from God

um I'd rather say um Jesus was raised to

life I'd rather say that Jesus came back

to life again after dying for us I'd

rather say that um it's clear you it's

weird what how did that happen but still

like you get what I'm

saying yeah and I love the the way that

you've talked about hey here's how we're

going to talk about with folks that are

familiar with the language and here's

how we're not going to talk about it so

there's a source scripture and that

Source scripture inspires two different

expressions of the language so for

instance you could say to someone that

is not going to ever use the word

Resurrection like Hey we're bringing

hope out of hopelessness well what is

that that's Resurrection you take

something that's dead and you're

bringing it back to life but it's an

accessible language that someone that

doesn't have any like experience with

like wait wait what does resurrection

mean it's the same meaning to them and

you can meet them where they're at and

then it sounds like hey once we're in

church that's the whole point now we're

going to lead them to where we want them

to be yeah

absolutely okay let's talk about ads you

mentioned uh doing ads copy I'd love to

know what are the advertising or

Outreach platforms that elevation is

seeing the most traction with right now

I can't speak into that a lot um because

I'm not behind the strategy of it um but

we have we have all like the the basic

spots that we certainly are very present

on uh Facebook and Instagram uh we're

having fun experimenting on Tik Tok

still that's that's still like a growing

space we experiment with it I don't

think that's for everyone and I don't

think it's for every Church um but I do

think that Facebook and Instagram are

for every church still um those uh you

should be on there um but then uh

outside of that it depends on what it is

that we're advertising uh so we'll

advertise on Spotify because we have

Elevation Worship of course um and we'll

yeah and then it's really like um we

advertise on Amazon Pastor just released

his books so again advertising for that

in different places it really just

depends on like what we're talking about

but I would say uh uh Google and Google

Facebook Instagram are probably like our

main spots easy okay let's talk about

the copy then specifically uh what I'd

love to hear like you've presumably been

a big part of overseeing or directly

writing a lot of different ad copy uh

what what are some of you know your

favorites that you've done over the

years

gosh any winners in your mind that

you're like oh you know what I really

crushed it I I I was in the lab I was in

my bag and we just this one got so many

people saved

okay

I I can't I can't recite for you

something that I feel that way about but

I will tell you the ones that I feel

most proud of uh have been

fun um yeah I think people

um and not like so one of the ways we

have even more specific ways to when I

teach Elevation Church voice I teach

there's a lot more to it and one of the

things I say is that we are fun but not

silly and I think that's like an

important distinction as well um our

culture is fun it's important to us that

people can be light-hearted um uh life

is heavy and so it doesn't always have

to be heavy we can have fun um and uh

there I remember um um there there have

been an Easter one and a Christmas one

that we've done with kids in them and

kids are easy people love kids and we

use staff kids that keeps us safe um but

yeah uh but um uh kids are endearing

it's hard not to smile at kids not to be

like oh look at that I'm going to lean

in a little more uh that doesn't feel

like so serious I don't feel like I'm

going to feel judged by that right um

it's very approachable and I think

advertising

needs to be approachable so that would

be a good example I suppose of fun but

not silly

exactly yeah I feel like if it was me

that's an important you would need to

teach that to me be okay bra fun not

silly because I feel like it would

descend a little blurry there that's

that's pretty juvenile there son I got

there pretty quickly we we have this

line that we use for because we have

some particular staff members who cross

that line and and uh and we say uh well

you don't know the line until you cross

it

and there are some of them that cross it

more than okay then this was not planned

but I got to ask this you know one of

the Elevation Church posts that came

across my feed this year and frankly

I've talked about it as a big fan of it

supportive of it um feels like it might

have crossed into the silly territory

and that was the uh SpongeBob karaoke

cover of one of the hill song worship

songs I did that one slip through there

Nikki or what

happened I need to know who posted that

one it was it I feel like it was

probably our youth account or it was yes

on the on the on the youth account

they're allowed to be silly they're

allowed to be Sly the youth account is

very they go Rogue a little bit so you

can see it in her eyes she looked to the

side she's like the youth every single

senior leader listening knows that

feeling what did the youth group do this

time they did what you and so but just

like very candidly you got to let them a

little bit um uh their their demographic

is different than the whole church it's

very zero in certainly and um and so I

don't want to post that and I don't want

our church account to post that um and I

will call them out if they spell

something wrong but other than

that other than that um uh they can have

fun with it because um teenagers need to

be able in my I have a teenager I'm a

mom um and teenagers need to be able to

find Church approachable too and so just

like a little aside there go ahead and

let your youth ministry set up their own

account keep eyes on it keep them in the

guard guard rails but like theirs can be

wider than yours you know Nikki you just

you just use the word demographic there

to give to give your youth account a

little bit more license to be maybe a

little bit more silly and that seems to

be the Common Thread that has been just

like quietly weaved throughout this

entire conversation is that in just

about everything you've said you have

revealed that the decisions that you're

making whether it's on social or the

Elevation Church voice whatever it is

are in informed by the people you're

talking to and by having a a really

acute awareness of who you're talking to

and why you're talking to to them and to

me as a pastor that's like that feels

very pastoral in nature that like you

know the people you are talking to or

that you want to talk to they are known

and you are addressing them in a way

that's appropriate for them in a way

that's attractive to them and so I just

want to ask you like in your role um I I

forget what your actual uh what your

actual job title is but in your role

like does it feel like the work that

you're doing is pastoral in nature

absolutely I

um uh it's very I feel like I feel like

I have a very pastoral role um because I

get to have

um I get to have this really zoomed out

view um of people and to try to

notice um what I'm seeing the different

demographics leaning into and needing

and that kind of a thing and

um and I I think a lot of times in

Ministry so I have been in the past uh

we were we were at a previous small

Church in Vermont a little closer to you

guys and um and I was in U more pastoral

what we would call classically pastoral

Ministry there and um and I think uh a

beautiful thing that's happened in

churches is uh that we've really like

expanded

uh what Ministry can look like and in

the different ways that God can use

different people's um gifts talents

experience um perspective to to Really F

A need that someone else maybe you have

a senior pastor who's great at

communicating from stage but he's not

good at written

communication right uh imagine someone

partnering with him um to learn to write

in the voice that he speaks in um um to

help him translate that um in other

spaces in written form like what a

beautiful Ministry um I wrote down I

actually wrote down some questions I had

a feeling you were going to ask me this

um because I feel like this would be

helpful to your listeners I have some

questions that help me decide um uh what

I'm going to say and how I'm going to

say it outstanding let's do it okay I

have it's just four questions they're

not they're not hard who am I speaking

to um that's that's where I start and so

is it a small group of people a large

group of people um are is there a

particular age demographic about them uh

do they live in a certain place um is it

very broad is it very narrow just really

try to like think about that um and then

what do I want them to hear um and this

is very different from what do I want to

say um because what I want to say and

what they might hear might be two

different things I might need to say it

in a different way than I want to say it

in order for them to hear it the the way

that I want them to hear it and so what

do I want them to hear excuse

me and then um what do I want them to do

uh so there should be some kind of call

to action right um do I want them to

come to Easter do I want them to pray

for something but I should be clear I

should be clear in who I'm speaking to

what I want them to hear and what I want

them to do and then how do I want them

to

feel um because imagine if I'm super

clear in all of that but it's like so

direct that it's offputting M right yeah

so how do I want them to feel when they

when they engage with my content okay I

have an extremely practical example of

what she just said that I did today and

the reason I'm bringing up my experience

is because yes we share a last name but

when Nikki said that she cared how AM

and PM were stylized I knew that we were

Kindred

Spirits I like okay it's not just the

last name so today we had a church

upload a sermon file late to us so for

context Nikki we prepare uh social media

content for churches that's one of the

services that we we we do so we need

sermons to be uploaded by Tuesday at

midnight and this sermon came in late

and it's really tough for us to turn it

around when it comes in late and so what

we've done is we've implemented this

hard deadline most churches get it to us

on Sunday if it doesn't come in before

uh Tuesday midnight Pacific we can't get

get it done so we had this pre-written

email to reply to this church and one of

our editors sent it to them and the

church uh did not care for this email

and they replied like hey are you

serious like this is the first time this

has happened like are we going to get a

refund like come on and my editor was

like I thought like we communicated

clearly this deadline like why are they

like getting emotional about this and I

said well I think it might be the copy

uh because what they said was and I

quote it was it was we will not prepare

this sermon for you because it is after

our deadline and I said when you

communicated as we will not

there's agency in your decision you are

the judge and jury and have said look I

could do this but I'm not going to and I

said we need to change this script to

say we are unable to complete sermons I

said because now we've removed the

agency it's not that we don't want to

we'd love to it's just that there are

very real deadlines and there's simply

not enough time in the day so we we we

we physically literally cannot and I

said if we don't change this every time

we send this email out it's going to put

the church on their back foot

immediately

because how we're making them feel is

we're very corporate we're very direct

and we're very like we will not do this

so tough luck um so hopefully that

serves as a practical example for maybe

you know in terms of I I actually think

this applies to feedback too um you can

be clear and

kind I think um a lot of times uh in an

effort to be clear um we end up being

harsh and I'm like well that's just how

it is and you know uh sorry I speak the

truth I

yeah that's it um and you don't need to

be that way especially because you have

access to AI so if say you're a person

who just is not a nice Communicator you

can put it into Ai and say make this

nicer make this more so good there's no

excuse AI discipling us to be more like

Jesus in the way we talk well it is one

of the benefits of working remotely you

don't have to talk to someone face to

face hear what they have to say before

you slack them back seek the Lord then

seek Ai and that way and and that can

teach you like oh okay so that's how

you'd say it you know and look those are

those language models have been trained

by you know hundreds of millions of

input presumably the kind people have

told the AI how to talk we're not yet

kind we're learning I love it yes please

deliver this feedback in the voice of

Fred Rogers oh yeah yeah you you love Mr

Rogers I love Mr Rogers yeah yeah in

Canada we had Mr dress up oh that's

interesting yeah yeah kind of like the

knockoff we have a lot knockoff things

where it's like you know this is what

they do and then this is what you know

you have the NFL we have the CFL the

Canadian Football League uhhuh just

lower budgets generally yeah lower

viewership that's fair that's fair uh

this has been an outstanding

conversation Nikki very grateful for

your time especially during a busy

Easter season where you're surely

overseeing many responsibilities is

there anything uh you know parting words

of wisdom that you'd like to leave for

many of the churches listening uh that

uh you know are in different situations

smaller situations but I think so many

of the things that we've talked about

are truly

Universal I just think that for every

Ministry regardless of the size if you

know what you're trying to do and who

you're trying to do it for and you can

clearly Define the way that you want to

do that you don't need a lot of people

to do that um but you can have uh one of

the phrases that we use is focus

Excellence it's really important to us

um and you can do that uh you don't need

a lot of people to do that you don't

need a lot of resources I recommend um

getting grammarly uh I recommend uh

using AI uh don't these things are not I

use them I'm a professional I have a

copyrighting team I use them um and so

uh use the tools at your disposal don't

make things hard on yourself um and uh

and I don't know let's go like win more

people for Christ there you go yeah

praise God anything uh that you wish to

plug either on your own behalf for

behalf of the church I mean if you

haven't gotten Pastor Steven's new book

do the new you you're out of your

mind I um I got to read it way ahead of

time um it's excellent it's helpful it's

practical um and I'm just excited for

everybody to get their hands on it also

the plug I'll give you is the audio book

is is read by him and it has bonus

content on it is this the first time

that he's done the audio book I don't

know it might be it's uh this is the

first book He's released in eight years

so all of his previous books uh were

were eight years or

older wow I am an audiobook listener

almost exclusively and it is always a

huge benefit when I know that I'm

listening to the author you can just

like feel the you know hours and hours

of work that they've poured into the

material and it kind of just like comes

out into the performance of the the

reading of the audiobook so that's great

to hear you can find that on Audible

find the book anywhere where books are

sold online or in person and thank you

to Nikki thanks as always to everyone

for their time attention and Trust we'll

talk to you real

soon we're watching

Trust no I don't know what that is

really did you just make something up

nope it's another reality game show it's

like does it involve trust yeah