Chris Metzen on the Worldsoul Saga | WoWCast

Summary

In this engaging podcast transcript, Scott Johnson interviews Chris Metzen, discussing the upcoming 'The War Within' expansion for World of Warcraft. Metzen shares his excitement about the game's 20th anniversary and the challenges of crafting a saga that honors the franchise's history while pushing its narrative forward. They delve into character development, the creative process, and the importance of player agency, hinting at a storyline that will span multiple expansions and evolve beloved characters like Anduin and Thrall.

Takeaways

• 🎮 Scott Johnson, host of The Instance podcast, interviews Chris Metzen about his return to work on the World of Warcraft (WoW) expansion, The War Within.
• 🚀 The War Within is part of the Worldsoul Saga, marking a significant moment as it's been 8 or 9 years since Metzen shipped a video game.
• 🎉 There's a sense of excitement and anticipation for the launch of The War Within, especially as it coincides with the 20th anniversary of WoW.
• 🔄 Metzen discusses the challenge of balancing the inclusion of iconic characters while ensuring new characters have room to develop and the player retains agency.
• 🌟 The interview highlights the importance of the creative team's passion and ownership over the game's development, with Metzen emphasizing the value of their input.
• 📈 Metzen speaks about the complexity of developing a three-part saga and the need to plan and map out the narrative well in advance.
• 👴 The characters in WoW, such as Anduin and Thrall, are evolving and aging, reflecting the passage of time and the personal growth of the team behind the game.
• 🎨 The creative process involves pouring personal experiences into the game's storytelling to create genuine and affecting content for the players.
• 🔮 The expansion and saga are designed to build upon the past 20 years of WoW's storyline, aiming to create a fulfilling narrative experience for long-term fans.
• 🛡 There's a careful consideration of character deaths in the story, as they carry significant weight and impact the ongoing narrative and player engagement.
• 🌍 The inclusion of allied races and diverse character options enriches the game world, offering players more choices for character customization and expression.

Q & A

What is the significance of the upcoming 'The War Within' expansion in the context of the World of Warcraft franchise?

The 'The War Within' expansion is significant as it marks the beginning of the Worldsoul Saga and is part of the 20th anniversary celebration of World of Warcraft. It aims to bring together various storylines and characters that have been developed over the years, creating a convergence of narratives.

How does Chris Metzen feel about returning to work on World of Warcraft after a long break?

Chris Metzen expresses a mix of excitement and a sense of privilege to be back working on World of Warcraft. He describes the feeling as both overwhelming and immediate, acknowledging the weight of the franchise's history while focusing on the present development process.

What is the 'Worldsoul Saga' and how does it relate to the 20th anniversary of World of Warcraft?

The 'Worldsoul Saga' is a new narrative arc for World of Warcraft that is being introduced as part of the game's 20th anniversary. It is designed to bring together various elements and characters from the game's history, aiming to create a cohesive storyline that builds upon the existing lore.

How has the development process for World of Warcraft evolved since Chris Metzen's return?

The development process has become more democratized, with team members finding their voice and contributing to the vision of the game. Chris Metzen emphasizes the importance of listening to the team's instincts and incorporating their ideas while maintaining a balance between including iconic characters and allowing new ones to develop.

What challenges does Chris Metzen foresee in creating a saga that spans multiple expansions?

The challenges include managing the complexity of developing three expansions simultaneously, maintaining a cohesive narrative, and ensuring that the team's creative vision is reflected in the game. Additionally, there is the pressure of meeting player expectations and building a story that can stand as a culmination of 20 years of World of Warcraft storytelling.

How does Chris Metzen approach character development in the Worldsoul Saga, especially for long-standing characters like Anduin and Thrall?

Chris Metzen aims to show aging and progression in characters like Anduin and Thrall, giving them a sense of maturity and development over time. The goal is to capture the characters' growth while ensuring they remain relatable and engaging to the players.

What is the significance of the sword from the BlizzCon trailer in the upcoming expansion?

The sword introduced in the BlizzCon trailer is a significant narrative element that is set to play out over the course of the Worldsoul Saga. It is not an immediate resolution but rather a plot device designed to build anticipation and drama over time.

How does Chris Metzen view the inclusion of allied races in World of Warcraft and their impact on the game's world-building?

Chris Metzen appreciates the inclusion of allied races as they add diversity and new player expression options. He sees it as a positive development that enriches the game's world and allows players to connect more deeply with their characters and the game's setting.

What can players expect from the narrative structure of 'The War Within' and the subsequent parts of the Worldsoul Saga?

Players can expect a narrative that is designed to unfold over time, with interconnected story threads and developments that will span multiple expansions. 'The War Within' is the first part of a larger story, and it is intended to rise and crescendo with its own max level campaign.

How does Chris Metzen perceive the role of creative direction in the development of World of Warcraft's story?

Chris Metzen views creative direction as a balance between having strong ideas and allowing the team to express themselves through the story. It involves listening to the team's instincts, incorporating their vision, and ensuring that everyone feels a sense of ownership and pride in the game's development.

What is the intended impact of the Worldsoul Saga on the future of World of Warcraft, especially in terms of setting up the game for the next 20 years?

The Worldsoul Saga is intended to be a culmination of 20 years of storytelling, creating a crescendo that fulfills the game's narrative promises while also setting the stage for future developments. It aims to establish a strong foundation for the game to continue evolving and engaging players for years to come.

Outlines

00:00

🎮 The Return to Game Development

In this paragraph, Scott Johnson, host of the World of Warcraft podcast 'The Instance', interviews Chris Metzen about his experience returning to the game development industry after 8-9 years since his last video game release. They discuss the upcoming launch of 'The War Within' and the anticipation of starting the 'Worldsoul Saga'. Chris reflects on the overwhelming nature of the game's history and his role in it, emphasizing the importance of focusing on the present and the immediate gratification of working on the game again.

05:02

📚 The Creative Direction and Team Dynamics

This paragraph delves into the creative direction of the 'World of Warcraft' expansion, highlighting the challenges and complexities of developing a saga that spans multiple expansions. Chris Metzen discusses the importance of balancing strong creative ideas with the team's input and ownership. He also talks about the democratized development process and the need to map out the narrative trajectory well ahead of time, ensuring the team's passion and pride in the work they produce.

10:05

👵 Aging Characters and Personal Connections

The conversation shifts to the personal connection between Chris Metzen and the game's characters, particularly Anduin and Thrall, who he sees as representations of different stages of his life. Chris discusses the evolution of these characters and the intention to show their aging process while maintaining their relevance in the story. He also touches on the importance of authenticity and personal experience in storytelling, encouraging the team to infuse their own truth into their work.

15:05

🗡 The Sword of Azeroth and Narrative Threads

In this paragraph, the discussion centers around the narrative threads and the development of the 'Worldsoul Saga'. Chris Metzen hints at the significance of the sword from Azeroth, which will be a key element in the upcoming expansion. He emphasizes that the saga is designed to play out over time, with characters like Xal'atath weaving in and out of the story. The paragraph also addresses the players' expectations and the unique structure of the three-part saga.

20:06

🎉 The 20th Anniversary and Looking Forward

The final paragraph focuses on the 20th anniversary of 'World of Warcraft' and the team's efforts to create a saga that feels like a culmination of 20 years of storytelling. Chris Metzen expresses his excitement for the upcoming expansion and the entire saga, acknowledging the pressure and positive feedback from the community. He also reflects on the privilege and challenge of continuing to develop a game with such a rich history and the impact it has had on players.

Keywords

💡Zerglings

Zerglings are small, fast, and numerous creatures from the fictional universe of the 'StarCraft' game series, known for their ability to morph into other forms. In the script, the mention of 'zerglings' morphing into 'orcs' is likely a playful reference to the creative process of blending elements from different fantasy or game worlds, which is a common practice in the gaming industry to create unique experiences.

💡Worldsoul Saga

The 'Worldsoul Saga' refers to a narrative arc within the 'World of Warcraft' game, which is being developed to celebrate its 20th anniversary. It is a significant storyline that aims to bring together various elements and characters from the game's history into a cohesive narrative experience. The script discusses the anticipation and excitement surrounding this saga, indicating its importance to both the developers and the players.

💡The War Within

'The War Within' is an upcoming expansion of 'World of Warcraft' that is part of the larger 'Worldsoul Saga'. It is expected to kick off a massive narrative journey for the game's players. The script mentions this as a significant event for the game, marking a return to video game development for Chris Metzen after many years and setting the stage for a new era in the game's story.

💡Anduin

Anduin Wrynn is a character from the 'World of Warcraft' universe, known as the young king of Stormwind. In the script, Anduin is mentioned as one of the characters who will play a significant role in the 'Worldsoul Saga'. The character's evolution and development over time are highlighted, reflecting the growth and aging of the game's narrative and characters.

💡Jaina

Jaina Proudmoore is a prominent character in the 'World of Warcraft' series, known for her leadership and magical abilities. The script discusses the reunion of characters like Jaina with others such as Anduin and Thrall, indicating a convergence of storylines and the importance of these characters in the upcoming saga.

💡Khadgar

Khadgar, often referred to as 'my favorite worst wizard of all time' in the script, is a character from 'World of Warcraft' known for his wisdom and magical prowess. His inclusion in the 'Worldsoul Saga' suggests a return to the roots of the game's storytelling, bringing back fan-favorite characters for new adventures.

💡Titans

In the 'World of Warcraft' lore, the Titans are powerful cosmic beings responsible for shaping the world. The script mentions Titans as one of the 'macro themes' that the 'Worldsoul Saga' aims to explore, indicating a deep dive into the game's foundational mythology.

💡Old Gods

The Old Gods are ancient, malevolent entities from the 'World of Warcraft' universe, often associated with themes of chaos and darkness. The script refers to them as part of the core themes that the 'Worldsoul Saga' will encompass, hinting at a narrative that will delve into the game's darker神话os.

💡BlizzCon

BlizzCon is an annual gaming convention hosted by Blizzard Entertainment, where they make major announcements about their games. In the script, the mention of BlizzCon alludes to a significant reveal made by Chris Metzen about the 'Worldsoul Saga', which was met with a positive response from fans.

💡Terran Gregory

Terran Gregory is the principal story developer for 'World of Warcraft'. The script highlights the collaborative process between Chris Metzen and Terran Gregory in shaping the 'Worldsoul Saga', emphasizing the importance of teamwork in the game's narrative development.

💡Allied Races

Allied Races in 'World of Warcraft' are additional playable races that players can unlock and play as, adding diversity to the game's character options. The script praises the introduction of allied races as a positive development, allowing for greater player expression and choice in character customization.

Highlights

Scott Johnson interviews Chris Metzen about his work on the upcoming World of Warcraft expansion, The War Within.

Chris Metzen reflects on his long history with the franchise and the excitement of returning to ship a new game after 8 or 9 years.

The anticipation of launching The War Within and the massive Worldsoul Saga is likened to a privilege and a wild experience for Metzen.

The War Within is part of the 20th anniversary celebration of World of Warcraft, marking a significant milestone for the franchise.

Metzen discusses the creative process of developing the Worldsoul Saga and the intention to bring together old characters and themes.

The idea of a larger saga was born out of the desire to create a meaningful convergence of storylines for the 20th anniversary.

Balancing the inclusion of epic characters while ensuring player agency and space for new characters is a key challenge.

The development process has become more democratized, with a focus on team collaboration and shared vision.

Metzen's role as creative director involves listening to the team's instincts and incorporating their ideas into the overarching narrative.

The team is already mapping out future expansions, with a focus on maintaining a cohesive and refined vision.

The pace of content creation for World of Warcraft is described as 'wild', with a commitment to delivering more content regularly.

Personal connections to characters are explored, with Metzen acknowledging the characters' evolution and aging.

The importance of genuine, personal experience in storytelling and character development is emphasized.

Metzen discusses the potential for character deaths in the saga, noting the gravity and impact of such decisions on the narrative.

The introduction of allied races and the expansion of player choice in character customization is praised by Metzen.

Expectations and pressure for The War Within are acknowledged, with Metzen expressing confidence in the expansion's design.

The War Within is designed to be part of a larger narrative, with a focus on a longer form engagement for players.

Metzen shares his vision for the Worldsoul Saga to be a fitting crescendo for 20 years of World of Warcraft storytelling.

The interview concludes with a look towards the future of World of Warcraft and the legacy of its creators.

Transcripts

I didn't think zerglings, you know, morphing into orcs would work, but

I didn’t either.

It’s been a it’s been a privilege working on zergorcs.

Hi, I'm Scott Johnson, the host of the World of Warcraft podcast,

The Instance, and today I'm sitting here with Chris Metzen.

Chris. Scott. It's good to see you, man.

Good to see you.

How are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty good.

You know, it's a crazy time.

We're about to launch The War Within,

and really kick off this massive Worldsoul Saga,

which is a trip because I haven't shipped a video game in 8 or 9 years, so,

it's kind of a wild going through this process again

and just kind of feeling that anticipation,

you know, excited to see what people think.

And when the product finally gets into people's hands, it's

one of my favorite parts of the whole development process.

Let me ask you this question, because you reminded me

of how long this has been going.

I remember firing up the World of Warcraft,

OG vanilla World of Warcraft, and seeing a trailer that said,

“celebrating ten years of Warcraft”.

And I remember then thinking, you got to be kidding me.

That's insane.

That's how long I've been playing these games?

And now we're 20 years on top of that 30 years total.

That has to be a little overwhelming, especially given that you were here

for most of that. Had a bit of a break.

Now you're back.

Does that weigh on you?

Do you feel that the heat from the time, like

how do you feel about how that how that entire process has gone?

I don't feel

kind of heat or like the

weight of time relative to expectation.

It's really weird being a little older, little wiser.

It feels like 100 years ago.

It feels like five minutes ago all at the same time.

So when I look at this Worldsoul Saga, the stuff we're building right now,

thankfully there's an immediacy, of it all to me.

It's just we live and die by how good

the things we're sculpting in real time is trying to hold it all in your head.

The weight of the past, it's kind of beyond me.

I can't really wrap my head around, like, all the history, all at once.

I mean, there's kids graduating college right now named Jaina and Anduin.

It's like, what I often find, it's not all that helpful to over dwell on,

in the course of development, you want to keep it focused on what

you're doing at the time.

So that's how I try and balance it out.

One day I'm sure I'll look back and go, wow.

Working on this game again is really giving me more of

an immediate sense of gratification

that just kind of keeps you focused in the moment.

And that's generally where my head is at on a day to day basis.

When you mentioned people

naming their kids after characters that you created, that you named

and that you developed and saw grow and evolve and everything.

Something that's interesting about War Within so far, to me, is we're seeing

the gang kind of back together in a much more complete way.

So you're seeing Anduin talking to Thrall with Jaina nearby

and Khadgar, my favorite worst wizard of all time.

But I love him. He's there. They're all there.

And what that tells me is that we're in, for

some, coming together of a lot of strings, a lot of

stuff that has been out there

for 20 years that will finally converge in some meaningful ways.

Do you want to speak to that a little bit? I'll break it down.

When I came back, I'm like, all right, let's go.

World of Warcraft. What do we got? What are we making?

And they were in, you know, they had already been doing, War Within,

or what would become War Within for about ten months.

While I liked what they were building and thought it was a cool next chapter

in WoW, in my head I’m like,

for the 20th anniversary of WoW I want to have a feeling

like whatever the product becomes,

I want to have a feeling of pulling all the toys out of the toy box.

Like older characters, the kind of macro themes that the series

has been about all these years Titans, old gods, light and dark.

I wanted to feel like the anniversary was capturing

this kind of mix of all of the core flavors, and ultimately

proofing out that there has been this storyline all the way through.

That everything kind of converges into this crescendo.

And in a very real way,

how The War Within was shaping up they’re like, yeah, dude.

Like there's no way on Earth, right,

that's going to divert the course of mighty rivers.

There's no way to get that done on top of what we're already in production on.

So that begat this idea of a larger saga.

I'm like, okay, well, what if we can get there in X number of steps?

You know what if we can build to something, just ridiculous,

but it might take a couple expansions to do.

And somehow, folks bought in on it.

Like, whoa, that's, you know, that's wild. Let's let's go.

And so, Terran Gregory and I, Terran is our principal story developer.

So we work together every day, and we talk a lot about, like,

we want to involve all these epic characters,

but when they're in the scene,

they eat all the oxygen and they could just go off and solve for X.

So it's this balance between including all these mega characters and then finding

clever ways to get them out of the way so that the player has maximum agency.

And the newer characters we're introducing have space to breathe and live.

It sounds like

it is almost an advantage to come to something that already been started.

If you'd come to the end of Dragonflight and started from there, that's a little,

it's a bigger buy. It's like, wait a minute, where are we going now?

We've been flying. Okay. What does that mean? What do we do?

And instead, you were presented with some beginnings.

And then you got to decide where those beginnings took you.

And vector it a little bit.

You know, the trick to,

after all these years, you have creative direction,

which even today, I don't know that I could do a thesis on.

Right.

Creative direction is as unique as the person doing it

and the and the chemistry of the team that you're working with.

But kind of finding that balance again of having strong ideas

and kind of saying like, I want to go this way, right.

But the team had already been kind of constructing this thing.

So it's a mix of maximizing

kind of the things that they are

most passionate about, the ideas that they're kind of dug in on,

and finding a way to bend everything towards

a singular purpose, but boosting their sense of ownership.

So when you got up on stage at BlizzCon,

it was pretty magical for players.

I can say that for myself and a lot of people that I know,

and a lot of fans of the game saw this as a return to something.

And I think we're coming off an excellent expansion in Dragonflight.

But you got up and did something that surprised everybody, which was,

we're not doing the normal. Here comes the next expansion.

Here are the features. Here's the storyline in its basic way.

We are going to do a trilogy of essentially games.

You spoke a lot about bringing, you know, tying up some loose ends,

but also creating a saga

that is three parts at least.

and setting up really the next 20 years of the game, perhaps.

That's very different than what any of you have done up to this point.

Did that present unique challenges to the way you wanted to create story,

the way you wanted your characters to progress? These sorts of things?

Yeah, it created all sorts of complexities.

You know, under the hood a little bit.

It's interesting in how when I came back on the team, the development process

and even the conceptualizing process, like, where does the expansion take place?

What's the what are the main themes? What's the focus?

Really have become much more democratized.

Right?

And people had kind of found their voice in the balance of all the special teams

that comprise the World of Warcraft team.

They had really built the vision of Dragonflight together.

So as I came back in “Woo-Hoo!”,

there were folks who are like, “oh, wow, how is this going to change our dynamic?”.

In terms of being a creative director, will we still have a voice?

Will we still have stakes in how this all shapes out. So,

like I was saying earlier,

kind of learning that again and learning that balance again and coming in

as creative director, I'd be like, no, I'm not here to be hyper prescriptive

with everything, as I might have been as a younger dude.

But like, really listening for the team's instincts, what are they responding to?

What do they want to build? What are the artists want to make?

What are they imagining in terms of that pure vision?

So on top of that, the complexity of, I mean, where I don't think

this gives up the ghost on anything, like we're building three of these at a time.

This is. Yeah, I'll say it. It's insane.

It's insane. Right?

On top of the team, over a year ago, having committed to an eight week cadence.

So these folks are, we are moving so fast, you know.

And so the difference here is guys like Terran

and I have to map out where we're going way ahead of the caravan,

which is its own really interesting kind of work.

Right? Checking in with everybody.

Does this feel cool? Everybody hit? You know?

I want to make sure that we're building things that,

not only, again, my instinct feels are cool and fun,

but that the team is proud to build

and that they feel they have a voice in, and can express themselves through

where the story is going, what the ideas are.

We're already mapping out, you know,

13.1 and 13.2 and how they actually play out and connect.

And it's wild.

But in a way, you get to step back and see a far more cohesive

vision and, far more

refined idea over time.

So and without

spilling any beans.

It's like, we're already, honestly,

talking about

the next few, you know, post,

upwards of like 17.

And it's just keeping the conveyor belt going.

It's like we're loud and clear.

The fans want more content, more regularly.

So in a way, just staying ahead of that curve and making sure

that everything, again, is of purpose and telling this much longer story.

It's been a blast.

The creative, the pure creative on Warcraft

for the past year and a half has been, how would I put it?

Over such a long span of time, I want to say it's

one of the most nuclear creative phases I've seen for Warcraft.

But the pace is wild, right?

Like, the pace is wild.

And it's like, I ain’t 30 anymore.

So we joke around all the time like,

we need to start instituting company

naps in the middle of the afternoon, for the old folks.

But it has been pretty amazing.

That's a great way of thinking about it.

Speaking of personal connections to characters and story, somebody

close to you, who I think is a very wise human, once said online somewhere,

that Chris is Anduin in some ways,

kind of worn out, beaten up by a straight period of like nonstop work,

but also on the other end of it,

he's a little bit back to being Thrall again.

And those two characters represent these two parts of who this person is.

How much of these characters moving forward, or even in the past,

have represented you where you were in your life?

Like,

some people say, well, the early versions of these characters are so much,

they were so metal, like even Tauren Chieftains, they look like,

you know, these metal dudes and everything.

And now they're

aging, right?

They're maturing.

They're moving on in the world, like you are.

Like everyone who's worked on this does like, that's time.

Do you think that's a fair thing to say, that we'll see these characters

change and evolve in the same way that maybe you have?

And and they're kind of your avatars.

Yeah. No, I know where you're going.

So there's kind of A and a B there like the, the B which is easier

is certainly we want to push these characters forward.

We want to show some aging.

We are currently doing that.

But yeah we talk about that a lot.

There are many new characters over the arc of the saga that,

we don't want to be just one off.

We want them to be pals and working

together to solve these big problems.

But certainly the, the characters that have been around a while we're trying

to kind of find a way to capture

that age up, not necessarily age out, but like...

okay.

So in that cinematic at BlizzCon,

they went in and put like gray streaks in Thrall’s hair.

I'm like, oh.

It was, it got me. It's like, whoa.

And just Anduin, you know, staring you down.

It's like our little boy all grown up, you know, it's...

You feel for him. You're supposed to feel for him.

Which was the point.

But just the idea that these characters are moving through their own continuum,

and progressing and moving through stuff like, what, a trip.

Looking back from where we started,

to the point where these are,

you know, fairly fully realized characters, within this setting.

And it's just incredibly satisfying that way to see that progression.

And certainly us as storytellers, as people, as we, it's not necessarily,

it is certainly getting older, but it's also just experience over

time, like big life moments, becoming parents,

finding love, finding your career, all these big kind of life hurdles.

It's like, I tell folks all the time, don't be afraid to pour yourself

into this stuff, even when you’re like, “Oh, God.

Will the people down the hall dig it, you know?

Will I be judged?”, like, yes, probably.

But the answer is you're an artist.

Go get it, right? Find your truth.

Because often when we're pulling from a place of like, deeply

personal experience, someone's going to feel that on the other end.

On the other end of the line, you know, as you're playing the game,

it's like some of those themes that really matter,

whether you're a writer, quest designer, narrative folks, cinematics,

you know, like the game design,

like everyone kind of pours themselves into their craft.

And the more genuine that is, and I think sometimes the more risk you take,

I think you get more genuinely affecting content.

I think people feel that, they feel you in it one way or another.

There are many

themes embedded in the Worldsoul Saga, evidenced by different characters,

that are very pointedly things that I think today, or I'm struggling with today.

For sure.

But again, I think about it in terms of as the team's creative leader.

That's not the job as much.

I often I think the job is like trying to learn to call them out,

and challenge them to kind of breathe their own experience into it,

as opposed to pouring my own in.

So it's a balance.

I assume that's what over time, you have a character, let's stick

with Thrall for a minute.

He's, you know, probably the most well known of the Chris Metzen

and certainly voice him. Until they find somebody better.

Till they find something better, maybe you'll age out of it?

I don't know, we're getting there.

But, no, that you breathe enough life

into that character and giving them enough direction over so much time

that I have to think in a lot of cases, they start to run on their own gas.

And while I'm not asking you to tell me if there's any tragedy coming at all,

we're not even suggesting it here.

I have a kill list.

I've got like my top 12 characters.

Like they're all going.

Why is Khadgar at the top of the list?

I kid, I love Khadgar.

There's no, there's no kill list.

But you know what I mean.

You might find yourself going well, it might be time

for character X to take the character dive.

We, you know, so there's no, I'm kidding, there's no kill list, necessarily.

But we do talk about this stuff all the time.

And the only, you know, when you start talking about knocking off

main characters, it's not a small thing.

And usually that is in service to, in the general story you're developing,

if you really need to punctuate dramatic stakes.

The easiest thing to do is, ask Lucas, blow up

a planet or knock off a main character.

Tirion Fordring, for example. Remember that?

Yeah, I do, I do.

I'm still still gripping on that one. Yeah, that was rough.

No pressure though.

I'm just saying it was a rough moment.

No pressure?

So we do we do talk about it from time to time,

but we try and frame it with the greatest gravity possible

and trying to be clear that this franchise has another 20 years in it.

It's this big ongoing idea, and losing critical characters is costly.

So it's, you know, we talk about it from time to time.

I won't tell you we won't lose anybody over the arc of the saga.

Those types of moments are all about establishing stakes

and that emotional engagement from the player ultimately.

Does it help populate the Worldsoul Saga as a creative place

to know that over the last few years, while you were gone, for much of it,

the team has made a real effort, or a priority, out of having allied races

discovered in the world that players can not only unlock, but then be,

and might prefer over the originals or whatever?

Like this additional diversity for choice

seems like a really potent way

to fill your world with more interesting

characterization, rather than just, well it’s orcs and humans and a few others.

Yeah. I love it.

You know, just old school D&D and get all these options of player

expression, what kind of

culture you want to be from.

I love that kind of stuff.

So opening that up

especially like, Battle for Azeroth, and the inclusion of all these

new silhouettes and flavors or whatever, I thought was awesome, actually.

And even the ones

I didn't think I would play, I wound up, I rolled a vulpera hunter

and then I consistently dress him like Robin Hood from the old Disney movie.

So it's like,

I actually really dig a lot of the flavors that have been added over time.

In my opinion, the water's warm.

Everybody in the pool, you know, I think, WoW can stretch and,

grow to encapsulate all of these flavors.

I think giving players more options, more visual options is awesome.

At the end of the day, I think,

erring on the

side of player choice, player agency is the right move.

Like why are you playing this game in the first place, right?

When you imprint,

especially when it's your character, when you imprint on a on a look or a vibe

or you know, like a vision that you connect with, it's like, go.

Get it.

So let's bring it full circle to what is imminent, which is The War Within.

Players have a lot of expectations.

Some of it is based on just excitement because there is a three part saga coming.

They're not used to that, there’s a whole new structure to this.

So what would you say to players who are pins and needles about this

next expansion?

The start of the big grand story.

As we were talking about earlier, we've never been in a situation

where we've shaped the whole giddy up, all at once.

So there's the adventure component of The War Within, and then there's

the max level campaign, and then there's the subsequent patches.

And it's all been designed to kind of play out

over time in narrative threads and sinews linking everything together.

It's, personally a little biased, but I think it's off the hook.

Right?

At the end of the day, I would want people to remember

it is still only, however, part one of a

much larger narrative.

And I would want people to look at it that way, you know?

It's meant to rise and crescendo with its own max level campaign.

Will I be expected to walk in quest one and yank the sword from the planet?

Oh, interesting. That's an interesting one.

I would say to that. I'm glad you brought that up.

Actually, the sword, the resolution of the sword

that we started with at BlizzCon.

Actually, that's a 13 thing.

We're going to build to that.

And it's a, it's a doozy.

One does not simply yank a sword from Azeroth.

I would even say, you are not prepared for that moment, and leave it at that.

But it is a 13 issue.

Ultimately, you know, things like Xal’atath,

we've been doing a lot of work to kind of build her up,

as a very different kind of villain.

She is not like a Deathwing type villain where, you know,

just you fly in and burning everything, and like “ah crap”, you know?

Clearly he's where the storyline ends.

She's built in such a way that we're going to be confronted by her

and face her multiple times over the arc of the saga.

So it's not going to be this, one and done type like,

oh, you know, she's the, you know, the raid boss.

She's meant to kind of weave in and out of events over time.

So that's something I would say.

But definitely the sword thing sticks in my head, like certain of these

themes are built to play out over time.

So I hope people are into that.

I hope they're into a longer form engagement.

Because in a way,

so many of our expectations kind of crystallize around like, “well,

wait a minute, I didn't get the full meal I was expecting in 11.0”.

So it's not built to be that.

It's built to be part one. So buckle up.

The ride will be, I hope, insane and insanely fulfilling.

Going back to that, that promise

of the 20th anniversary of World of Warcraft,

I want this saga to feel like it is

just the perfect crescendo of 20 years of storytelling.

As we as we said at BlizzCon.

Yeah, there is a sense that we are fulfilling something.

That the 20 years came and will end this November.

I guess November's launch. Right? Yeah.

The 20 year anniversary will be this November.

And there is a feeling, I can tell you

from the player side of

really coming to something special.

And I know that puts pressure on the team when players collectively

have an idea that they think should happen

and then the teams like, well, we're kind of going a different way.

But I don't know that I've felt this much positive feedback

in a long time about just where things are headed

and nobody says that about a 20 year old property, usually.

There's not a lot of precedent we have, right?

Like that's the same contiguous project.

There's plenty of game, you know.

Yeah, game series run for 20 years, no question.

But like it is honestly a blessing and

sometimes a hindrance just trying to,

you know, sift through the sheer volume of all of these details.

Poor Sean Copeland right?

Just trying to keep it all, you know, make it all makes sense.

But it is also, it's principle strength, particularly

because it's an MMO and a video game, because you've lived these moments.

You didn't just passively watch, didn't just read a book or watch a movie.

You've lived these moments and they matter.

And there are stakes.

So as complex as it is to try and push the world forward without breaking

everything that came before, which is its own kind of challenge,

it's a very noble challenge. Right?

It's a privilege to

tread water in this complexity of this setting after all of these years.

It's amazing that it's still the same stakes.

It's still the same world that you've always known.

Well, there's a future

I see where you're, you know, reclining in some sort of chair with.

The blanket over my. Blanket, over your knee by the fire.

And you warm and you're looking back and you're thinking.

You're telling kids to stay off my lawn.

Yeah, exactly.

And they're all in their haptic suits playing

whatever version of WoW they have. And

looking back at grandpa's accomplishments,

and I think it looks like something to be pretty proud of already.

Well, I, for one, could not be more excited about this

next expansion

and the entirety of the Worldsoul Saga, and I think

you and your team should be proud.

And I wish you guys nothing but luck in the next few weeks.

Thank you.

Thank you sir.

Thank you so much Scott. That was good fun.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Never going to get that.