Interview Paweł Pawlikowski – COLD WAR

Summary

In a candid interview, award-winning Polish filmmaker Pawel Pawlikowski discusses his creative process and personal inspirations behind his latest film Cold War. He reveals how the complicated 40-year relationship of his late parents served as the ghostly inspiration, though he notes the finished film diverges into its own autonomous story. Pawlikowski explains his unique directing approach of elliptical storytelling and extended pre-production, spending long periods of time organically workshopping with actors and crew to slowly sculpt each scene. He strives for a graceful synthesis of acting, cinematography and production design captured in single takes. While accolades like the Oscar are validating high points, Pawlikowski stresses filmmaking always remains creatively challenging.

Takeaways

• 👨‍🎨 Films help Pawlikowski organize his life and mark different mental stages
• 🎥 He prefers an elliptic, restrained style over typical biopic approaches
• 🎞️ The idea for Cold War came from the story of his own parents
• 🎵 Music plays a key role connecting the two protagonists
• 🎬 He slowly approached making the film over a long pre-production
• � hat He spends a lot of time working with actors before filming
• 🎥 Pawlikowski tries not to use coverage and cut within the camera frame
• 🎬 He may do 27 takes to get the image, acting, and background in sync
• 👏 Winning an Oscar helps career-focused directors, but he sticks to his own ideas
• 😢 His parents' absence after their death has been very present in his life

Q & A

How does making films help Pawlikowski organize his life?

Pawlikowski says making films helps him organize his life and mental stages at different moments. His films are like markers along the way.

Why didn't Pawlikowski want to make a film directly about his parents?

He felt a film directly about his parents over 40 years would be too messy, with too many stages and separations. Also, he knew them too closely to have enough distance.

How did the addition of music help shape the Cold War story?

The music brought more autonomy and flow to the Cold War story. It showed how the characters meet through music, stick together with it, and reflect their crises through it.

What was the advantage of Pawlikowski's long pre-production phase?

The long pre-production let him slowly approach the film, rewriting it constantly. This time as the "best sculptor," letting the story marinate.

Why does Pawlikowski do so many takes of each scene?

He tries not to shoot with coverage from different angles, but cut each scene in the camera. This requires getting many elements right in one take - acting, lighting, framing, extras.

How did the lead actress prepare for her dancing role?

Joanna Kulig spent 6 months twice a week with a folk ensemble, learning choreography and steps. This immense effort also helped her imagine her character's inner life.

What piano skills did the lead actor Thomas have to learn?

Thomas had to learn to realistically play piano, pretend conduct, and more - skills that took time but helped him inhabit his musical character.

Why was flexibility built into the filming schedule and budget?

Pawlikowski knew from experience he might scrap or add scenes during filming, so flexibility for this approach was planned for schedule and budget.

How did Pawlikowski bring the actors together beforehand?

He had Joanna and Thomas spend time together - dancing, piano lessons, meetings - to develop chemistry before filming began.

How have Oscars and recognition impacted Pawlikowski's career path?

While validating, they haven't changed his path - he continues making personal films driven by his own ideas and territory rather than pursuing a Hollywood career.

Outlines

00:00

🎵 How he stumbled into filmmaking and it helps organize his life

He fell into filmmaking because he was not good at much else and too lazy to do other jobs. He likes the lifestyle of making a film every few years when he feels he has something to say. Filmmaking acts as markers, helping him organize different mental stages in his life.

05:03

🎬 How his parents' complicated relationship inspired the film Cold War

He wanted to make a film about his parents' turbulent 40-year relationship but realized it would be too messy and he knew them too closely. So he created the fictional story Cold War with similar dynamics over 14 years, added the music element, and dedicated it to his parents' memory.

10:05

🎥 His unique directing approach and commitment to authenticity

He takes an organic, slow approach to filmmaking. He works extensively with actors ahead of shooting, focuses on authenticity like having them learn skills pertinent to roles, and aims to capture scenes in ideal single shots with elements like blocking and lighting perfectly composed.

Keywords

💡filmmaking

The process of making films. The video focuses on the filmmaker's creative process, inspirations, and approach. He sees filmmaking as a way to organize his thoughts and reflect on his life stages. Examples are when he says filmmaking "helps me organize my life" and films are "markers...on the way".

💡inspiration

Where ideas or creativity come from. The filmmaker draws inspiration from his parents and their relationship. He says the "ghost" of his parents and their "complicated relationship" inspired the story in Cold War. Their dynamic of being both strongly matched was inspiring creatively.

💡restraint

Holding back; not being overly emotional or revealing. The filmmaker took a restrained, elliptic approach to storytelling in Cold War, not over-explaining or following biopic conventions. He gave just enough for the audience to "fill in the gaps."

💡pre-production

The planning stage before actually shooting a film. For Cold War, this was a slow, organic process rather than high spending. It involved location scouting, casting, script revisions, meetings with actors, and developing the music.

💡dedication

Commitment, devotion. The lead actress Joanne Kull devoted 6 months to Polish dance training for her role. The filmmaker praises the actors' dedication and physical preparation for embodying their musician characters.

💡image

In filmmaking, the visual elements - cinematography, lighting, framing, and mise-en-scene. The filmmaker carefully crafts each image, seeing it as intrinsic to conveying emotion and story.

💡coverage

Filming a scene from different camera angles. The filmmaker avoids relying on this coverage, instead trying to capture the full essence of a scene in one sustained shot.

💡magic

Moments when various film elements - acting, image, lighting, backgrounds - perfectly coalesce. The filmmaker tries to patiently craft each shot to capture these "magical" moments.

💡sculpting

Shaping gradually over time. The filmmaker uses time itself as a way to slowly develop ideas for the film, seeing time as "the best sculptor" that brings ideas into focus.

💡grace

Elegance, fluidity. Even with many takes, the filmmaker aims for shots with a feeling of grace, spontaneity and rhythm, particularly in the interactions between actors.

Highlights

Making films helps me organize my life and mental stages at different moments

After winning an Oscar, you still have the same problem - what's the next film

If you were a career director, Oscars help get on the ladder in America - but I just throw them back to my own ideas

The ghost of my parents and their complicated 40 year relationship inspired the film

I realized I'll never make a film about my parents - too messy, so I created fictional versions with similar mechanics

Introducing music made it a more free-flowing, autonomous story. I dedicated it to my parents' memory

I scrapped some shot scenes and invented new ones - flexibility built into schedule and budget

Time is the best sculptor - slowly approaching a film helps you live with it and the story develops

Physical exercise for actors helps them imagine the inside of the character

I wanted the actors to spend time together, feel good as a pair - crucial for the film

I don't shoot coverage - try to cut scenes already in camera, ideally shoot from one angle where acting and image comes together

Between takes, we adjust acting, lines, framing, lighting - everything works together, not separate jobs

To get that 'god-given, graceful' moment needs many takes for acting, image, extras in background to synchronize

You need the magical moment where it all comes together spontaneously even though it takes work

The image, acting, lighting, extras must feel like one thing, not separate - that's when it feels effortless

Transcripts

[Music]

you

the only job I can do yeah I'm not very

good at anything else and too lazy to do

an equally proper job so I quite like

this idea of writing fantasizing

traveling looking around for locations

for actors and then every three years or

so shooting a film which is usually a

nightmare therefore one should do it too

often but the whole kind of lifestyle

works for me especially since I don't

have that much to say all the time you

know so it takes me like a few years to

kind of really feel that I really need

to make a film but then I really do feel

I need to make a film and and everything

becomes quite easy and then and the

strange thing is that every film I made

almost well every film she is exactly

about where I am in life at the time or

where I'm in my head at the time so so

making films helps me organize my life

as well you know things at different

stages mental stages moments in life and

there's and films I like markers are on

the on the way

the bastard - car stereo - OH

however no one was really quite old you

know side done stuff that I liked anyway

you know like like many documentaries

which I used to make and and I had my

highlights there you know I had a really

good moment with documentaries where I

thought this was this was it and awards

and just generally can I felt I was in

doing the right thing at the right time

in the right place and then I had a deep

you know how they're gonna start making

feature films and I made it a couple of

good ones and then I had to kind of rise

is you know so periodically ups and

downs you know and an Oscar is just

another up it's a big up you know and

not just Oscar but the whole career of

video you know is actually very very

surprising and unexpected but but then

you know after the finish still faces

you still have the same problem okay

what's the next film you know I still

have to can start believing in it and

getting exciting about it excited about

it so it the situation is creatively

speaking is the same you know because if

you were more into a career a career

director you know then you probably go

to America and just kind of get onto

that kind of ladder of you know

filmmakers and Oscars are very useful

for that you know but if that's not what

you want to do you just basically throw

them back onto your own territory you

know your own bad ideas or good ideas

and then having to make that work

[Music]

Oh

[Music]

Yuja helped me not in terms of Oscars

and recognition is just the way I shot

it and told it quite elliptically quite

restrained way it helped me get this

story into focus you know because it's a

really sprawling big story you know how

would you tell it without being like

biopic II you know and biopics are

usually quite awful you know and you

have to kind of explain how you get from

A to B and then most scenes are about

explaining you know and kind of showing

what the cause and effect is so but with

either I can realize you can actually be

quite elliptic and we are and let the

audience fill in the gaps of course you

have to know what's in the gaps yourself

but you know Ongina give enough stuff to

suggest what happened in between but you

don't have to be boring about it then

you'd have to have really boring scenes

that explain stuff

[Music]

it's the ghost of my parents in a way of

their of their of the complicated

relationship

so that's ever since they died in 1989

and they died together at 89 just before

the wall came down and so so so I mean

it started you know their absence

started being very present in my life

you know and then what an amazing couple

you know what a disastrous cover how and

then when I was comin venting stories

and lap stories sometimes nothing beats

this story in a way this is the most it

was more history has everything else in

it politics exile betrayals you know and

everyone has two protagonists who are as

strong as each other and therefore the

war is the war is all-out war you know

usually in couples one person is more

pliable than the other but but like my

parents you know the couple in cold war

above tough and once one is up and the

other down and vice versa and so so I

kept coming back to it and then I

realized that I will never make with him

about my parents will just be stupid and

pointless and and it's a 40-year long

story and you know they kind of lived on

and off together for 40 years couldn't

literally make a film about that story

because it's pretty messy it kind of it

had too many stages and too many

separations and meetings and and there

all sorts of nuances plus I knew them

too well and if you know somebody really

closely you understand them less you

know so it says quite good forget that

it's these people but this kind of story

with the similar mechanics I reduced the

the time scale to 14 years so I could

have two actors do it you know rather I

mean to do this thing where you change

actors halfway through the film which

never works or rarely works and then and

then I and I added the element of music

you know which which helped me and

reimagined them quite substantially

because they're both musicians they meet

because of music through music they

stick together with music

and and and all the crises are kind of

reflected in their music so once I

introduced the music it became it became

a much more autonomous kind of

free-flowing story I still dedicated it

to the memory of my parents because

they're the reason why but

but I never had so many filming days

before you know but but here I did scrap

some scenes which we shot already

because I could not many but a few and I

invented new ones you know so it took a

bit of you know additional filming days

but that was sort of built into the

schedule and into the budget I mean it

wasn't a huge budget but because of this

strange method I have the producers

already can prepared to be flexible you

know and the pre-production was long but

you know what is what is pre-production

it wasn't like money wasn't being spent

massively now I was just driving around

with my production designers and my DP

taking photographs sometimes going

around funk festivals to find like fault

performers for the opening section of

the film just putting the elements

together and it was and taking my time

but it wasn't like all hands to the

pumps you know money being spent you

know that's what pre-production usually

usually meant so it was like approaching

the film slowly and trying and rewriting

it all the time you know just rewriting

not because of stuff I found but also

just that time you spend living with

your film is its time well-spent

you know because time is the best

sculptor in a way you know you just have

to kind of approach your film slowly and

a lot of not so much rehearsals but

meetings with the actors sometimes like

a little bit of rehearsal but not not

fixing anything just kind of destroying

this way that way for the brain to kind

of start working their brain to start

working as well and there's a lot of

privilege a lot of fiddling with the

music you know I had to find imagine the

arrangements of the music and folk

arrangements and the jazz arrangements

then the actors had to learn to

Oh sing and dance and play the piano

that took time and that's not exactly

pre-production Nakula captain I've

literally spent six months twice a week

she went to this folk ensemble on the

mazhab show on the outskirts of Warsaw

and learning the choreography and the

steps and I know that she's not a

natural dancer you know so it was like a

huge effort which also helped her with

character because very often physical

physical exercise helps you imagine the

inside of the character as well whereas

Thomas had to learn to play the piano

learn to pretend to that conduct and

that took some time and they had to

learn to get on together as well the two

actors they you know they I wanted them

to spend a bit of time together maybe go

to a dancing lesson or something just to

kind of feel good about them you know

together so it was a very slow organic

approach towards the food so I do the

same set up many times you know so and

it's quite notorious you know people

joke that I just have 60 takes you know

I don't have 60 thanks but I do have 27

here so and it's not exactly it takes of

the same thing you know it's very often

because I try not to shoot with coverage

you know with different angles to try

not to leave it to the cutting room you

know I tried to cut it already you know

in front of the camera as it were so and

to shoot a scene ideally from one angle

you know so where the actors act and

good rhythm and feel kind of free and

both have to be firing at the same time

which is not so easy or both or three or

four in a and then I I need to have the

background worked out you know the the

extras are an element of the image you

know the face is how you light them how

you shape them and all that is part of a

picture and the lighting and the framing

so very often between the takes we

actually read you get slightly now in

terms of acting in terms of you know

maybe I take some lines of a way that

don't feel good anymore or there

and then I changed the background I

changed the framing I change the

lighting maybe it can be improved I try

to work in a way where the image the

acting everything is part of the same

thing you know so it doesn't feel like

there's a division of labor between the

DP and the actors and the background

action you know everything is just like

this one magical moment that comes

together and it should feel like

god-given and graceful but and

spontaneous but to get there you need

like 27 take some time

[Music]

jebin hoped onion

Oh

uh yeah whoops is Ashley bendable hutch

pokey

[Music]

you

[Applause]