How often should you be doing Zone 5 training? | Iñigo San-Millán, Ph.D. & Peter Attia, M.D.

Summary

In this insightful transcript, the speaker discusses the four pillars of exercise: stability, strength, low-end aerobic (mitochondrial efficiency), and high-end aerobic (peak aerobic capacity/anaerobic performance). They delve into the importance of maintaining a high VO2 max for longevity, emphasizing the correlation between mitochondrial function and health. The conversation also touches on the sustainability of training regimens, the benefits of high-intensity interval training, and the impact of lactate and cortisol on metabolism, providing a comprehensive view on optimizing exercise for health and performance.

Takeaways

• 🏋️‍♂️ The four pillars of exercise discussed are stability, strength, low-end aerobic (mitochondrial efficiency), and high-end aerobic (peak aerobic capacity/anaerobic performance).
• 😖 The speaker finds peak aerobic training the least enjoyable and feels it's less relevant for personal health compared to when they were competing.
• 📈 VO2 max is strongly correlated with longevity, and maintaining a certain level can significantly reduce health risks.
• 🔑 The speaker suggests that for their age group, a VO2 max of 50 to 53 mL/kg/min is considered elite and is a good target for health.
• 💊 Exercise is likened to a 'medication' for improving mitochondrial function and metabolic health, which are crucial for longevity.
• 🔄 The importance of sustainable exercise routines is emphasized, as very high-intensity training and extreme diets are not sustainable in the long term.
• 🚴‍♂️ The speaker discusses the benefits of high-intensity interval training (HIIT) for stimulating glycolytic capacity, which declines with age.
• 🤔 The question of whether to add a high-intensity session or an additional zone two workout to a weekly routine is raised.
• 🚦 A 'four by four protocol' for high-intensity training is mentioned, suggesting four minutes of high-intensity exercise followed by four minutes of recovery, repeated multiple times.
• 🚴‍♀️ The speaker's personal approach to training includes ending zone two sessions with a high-intensity interval to stimulate both the oxidative and glycolytic systems.
• 🚫 The script warns against starting a workout with high-intensity intervals due to the potential hormonal and metabolic effects, such as lactate inhibiting lipolysis.

Q & A

What are the four pillars of exercise mentioned in the transcript?

The four pillars of exercise mentioned are stability, strength, low-end aerobic (mitochondrial efficiency), and high-end aerobic (peak aerobic capacity/anaerobic performance).

Why does the speaker find peak aerobic training less enjoyable?

The speaker finds peak aerobic training less enjoyable because it is the most challenging and painful if done correctly, and it is also less relevant to them since they no longer compete in any sports.

What is the correlation between VO2 max and longevity according to the data mentioned in the script?

The data suggests that there is a strong correlation between VO2 max and longevity, with VO2 max being one of the variables most strongly linked to a longer life.

What is the VO2 max requirement for the speaker to be considered in the top 2.5 to 2.7 percent of the population?

The speaker's VO2 max requirement to be considered in the top 2.5 to 2.7 percent of the population is about 50 to 53 milliliters per minute per kilogram.

Why is mitochondrial function important for health and longevity?

Mitochondrial function is crucial for health and longevity because it is linked to metabolic health, and there is an aging process where we lose mitochondrial function, which can be improved through exercise.

What is the 'four by four protocol' mentioned for high-intensity training?

The 'four by four protocol' is a training method where the individual performs high-intensity exercise for four minutes, followed by four minutes of recovery, repeated four to six times.

How does the speaker incorporate high-intensity training into their routine?

The speaker incorporates high-intensity training by doing a very high-intensity interval at the end of their regular zone two workouts, aiming for about five minutes of intense effort.

What is the importance of glycolytic capacity and why is it important to stimulate it as we age?

Glycolytic capacity is important because it helps maintain energy production during high-intensity activities. As we age, we lose glycolytic capacity, so it's essential to stimulate it to maintain overall fitness and health.

Why is it recommended not to start a workout with high-intensity intervals?

Starting with high-intensity intervals can lead to hormonal responses and high lactate levels in the blood, which can inhibit lipolysis and the transport of fatty acids, thus affecting the workout's effectiveness.

How does lactate affect the body during and after high-intensity exercise?

Lactate can inhibit lipolysis and decrease the activity of cpt-1 and cpt-2, which are involved in the transport of fatty acids. High lactate levels can also lead to a state of anemia and increase cortisol levels.

What does the speaker mean by 'dedicated energy system' in the context of zone two training?

A 'dedicated energy system' refers to spending a specific amount of time in a targeted heart rate or power output zone, in this case, zone two, without oscillating between different zones, which ensures the training is effective for that specific energy system.

Outlines

00:00

🏋️‍♂️ Exercise Pillars and Health Longevity

The speaker discusses the four pillars of exercise: stability, strength, low-end aerobic (mitochondrial efficiency), and high-end aerobic (peak aerobic capacity/anaerobic performance). They admit a struggle to find time for high-intensity training, which is both challenging and less relevant to their current non-competitive lifestyle. They highlight the correlation between VO2 max and longevity, mentioning that while a high VO2 max is beneficial, it doesn't need to be at an elite level for health benefits. The importance of mitochondrial function and metabolic health is underscored, with exercise being the 'medication' to improve these aspects. The conversation also touches on the sustainability of training regimes and the preference for a mix of training intensities to stimulate both energy systems effectively.

05:02

🚴‍♂️ Balancing Training Intensity for Health and Performance

In this paragraph, the focus is on how to balance different training intensities to maximize health benefits and maintain performance levels. The speaker talks about their personal training routine, emphasizing the importance of consistency in zone two training and incorporating high-intensity intervals at the end of sessions to stimulate glycolytic capacity and mitochondrial function. They discuss the physiological effects of lactate on lipolysis and the potential negative impacts of high-intensity training if not properly sequenced within a workout. The paragraph concludes with advice on how to structure workouts for optimal benefits, suggesting a four by four protocol of high-intensity intervals for those looking to improve VO2 max. The speaker also addresses the importance of understanding true training zones and the pitfalls of inconsistent training patterns.

Keywords

💡Exercise Pillars

The term 'Exercise Pillars' refers to the four fundamental components of a well-rounded exercise regimen as described in the video: stability, strength, low-end aerobic, and high-end aerobic. These pillars form the core of the speaker's exercise philosophy and are essential for achieving a balanced fitness level. The script mentions the struggle to allocate time for high-end aerobic exercises, which indicates their importance despite being less enjoyable.

💡Mitochondrial Efficiency

Mitochondrial Efficiency is a concept related to the low-end aerobic exercise pillar. It refers to the ability of mitochondria, the energy-producing components of cells, to efficiently convert nutrients into energy. In the context of the video, it is linked to longevity and metabolic health, suggesting that improving mitochondrial function through exercise can lead to better health outcomes.

💡VO2 Max

VO2 Max, or maximal oxygen uptake, is a measure of an individual's aerobic capacity and is highly correlated with longevity according to the video. It is an important metric in assessing the effectiveness of high-end aerobic exercises. The speaker discusses the ideal VO2 Max levels for maintaining health and how it can be achieved through specific training protocols.

💡Anaerobic Performance

Anaerobic Performance relates to high-intensity exercises that do not rely on oxygen for energy production. It is part of the high-end aerobic exercise pillar and is crucial for peak physical performance. The script mentions that while anaerobic exercises can be strenuous, they are necessary to maintain glycolytic capacity as we age.

💡Glycolytic System

The Glycolytic System is the body's energy pathway that operates without oxygen, converting glucose into energy quickly. The video emphasizes the importance of stimulating this system through high-intensity training to maintain metabolic health and counteract age-related declines in glycolytic capacity.

💡Sustainability in Training

Sustainability in Training refers to the ability to maintain a certain level of exercise or diet over the long term. The speaker argues that extreme training or diets are not sustainable, and instead, a balanced approach that includes both high and low-intensity exercises is recommended for long-term health benefits.

💡Zone 2

Zone 2 is a term used to describe a specific intensity level during aerobic exercise, typically around 60-70% of one's maximum heart rate. The video suggests that maintaining a consistent Zone 2 workout is crucial for improving mitochondrial function and overall health.

💡High-Intensity Interval Training (HIIT)

High-Intensity Interval Training, or HIIT, involves short bursts of intense exercise followed by recovery periods. The script discusses the benefits of HIIT for stimulating the glycolytic system and improving mitochondrial function, suggesting it as a part of a balanced exercise routine.

💡Lactate

Lactate is a byproduct of anaerobic metabolism that can accumulate in the blood during high-intensity exercise. The video explains that high levels of lactate can inhibit lipolysis, the breakdown of fat for energy, which is a consideration when structuring exercise routines to optimize health and performance.

💡CPT-1 and CPT-2

CPT-1 and CPT-2 are enzymes involved in the transport of fatty acids into the mitochondria for energy production. The script mentions that high levels of lactate can decrease the activity of these enzymes, affecting the body's ability to utilize fat for energy during exercise.

💡Cortisol

Cortisol is a hormone that can increase in response to stress, including intense exercise. The video points out that high cortisol levels can have negative effects on metabolism and health, emphasizing the importance of managing exercise intensity to avoid excessive hormonal responses.

Highlights

The four pillars of exercise are identified as stability, strength, low-end aerobic (mitochondrial efficiency), and high-end aerobic (peak aerobic capacity/anaerobic performance).

Peak aerobic exercises, though least enjoyable, are crucial for stimulating the energy systems and seeing rewards from training.

The relevance of high-end aerobic training diminishes with age, especially when not competing in sports.

VO2 max is highly correlated with longevity, indicating the importance of maintaining a certain level of fitness for health.

The necessity of a sustainable exercise routine for long-term health benefits, as extreme training and diets are not sustainable.

Mitochondrial function and metabolic health are key factors in longevity and are improved through exercise.

The idea of using exercise as a 'medication' to increase mitochondrial function for better metabolic health and longevity.

The importance of not only maintaining VO2 max but also glycolytic capacity as we age.

A suggested training protocol of four minutes of high-intensity exercise followed by four minutes of recovery, repeated four to six times.

The dilemma of choosing between an additional zone two workout or a VO2 max protocol for optimal health.

The impact of high-intensity training on hormonal responses and lactate levels, and their effects on lipolysis and fatty acid transport.

The recommendation to perform high-intensity intervals at the end of a zone two session to target both energy systems effectively.

The importance of consistency in training to improve mitochondrial and glycolytic function.

The distinction between oscillating between different training zones and dedicating time to a specific energy system for better results.

The significance of power output and heart rate consistency in elite athletes and its implications for effective training.

A clarification on the misconception of training duration versus dedicated time spent in a specific training zone for actual benefits.

A disclaimer stating that the podcast is for informational purposes only and should not replace professional medical advice.

A note on conflicts of interest and the importance of transparency regarding affiliations with companies or investments.

Transcripts

of the four pillars of exercise in my

world uh stability strength

low end aerobic which i described really

is they talk about it as kind of

mitochondrial efficiency and then

high-end aerobic which is peak aerobic

capacity slash anaerobic performance so

anaerobic power peak aerobic

low end aerobic mitochondrial efficiency

strength stability of those

four

i for some reason struggle to make the

time

for the peak aerobic

in part because

i

one it's the least enjoyable truth if

we're going to be brutally honest if

you're doing it right it hurts the most

it's also no longer as relevant because

i don't compete at anything right like

it was i actually really enjoyed that

type of training when i competed because

you have to spend time in that energy

system and you see the rewards

of you know repeating

minute you know re reap you know 60

minutes of repeating two minute

intervals or something like that yeah

so if we're if we're really talking

about this from the lens of health

maximizing health

the data are unambiguous that vo2 max is

highly correlated with longevity in a in

unlike

there are not many variables that are

more strongly correlated

so but the levels don't have to be that

high right we're not i mean yeah

pogocher's vo2max is probably 85

you know or it's probably in the 80s at

least in terms of milliliters per minute

per kilogram

but someone my age

to be considered absolutely elite which

means the top 2.5 to 2.7 percent of the

population which carries with it a

five-fold reduction in risk to the

bottom 25 percent of the population

uh my vo2 max requirement is about 50 to

53

milliliters per minute per kilogram

so the question is

can i use that as the gauge for how much

high intensity training i need to do

basically just enough to make sure i

maintain that vo2 max or do you think

about it in a different way well i think

about it more again the bioenergetics

energy energy systems right i think that

uh ultimately and we know that

longevity is also high related with

mitochondrial function

and metabolic health i think that more

and more and and and this is why you see

in so many fields in in medicine

nowadays right that

everybody is stumbling upon mitochondria

right um

and and so there's an aging process

where we lose mitochondrial function

uh and there's like a sedentary um a

component right where we lose

mitochondrial function um

i wish that we could have a medication

appeal you could take it and increase

the mitochondrial function because it

would increase

metabolic health and longevity but the

only medication that we know is exercise

and the medic and with an exercise that

the right the dose that we see that

improves the most and and also is

sustainable in the long term which is

another important concept you know

very high intensity training

is not sustainable very extreme diets

are not sustainable if you combine both

it's even worse and this is what a lot

of people are doing together but you

need to have some sustainability but

this is what it was in this this is

important to improve that mitochondrial

function but going back to that high

intensity i think is necessary because

we also lose glycolytic capacity as we

age and it's important to stimulate it

as you very well said for all of us

we're not competing

i couldn't care less about

being super high intensity

because i'm not competing but that's it

i want to have also my adrenaline rush

you know so like many people like but

how much does it feed into it so for

example if and i've often thought about

this now as i just want to make sure my

zone 2 is above three watts per kilo

would i be better off taking that extra

training if i have one additional

training session per week should i make

it an additional zone two workout so

then do i do four now should i be doing

a fifth one or

should i be taking that fifth one and

doing

a vo2 max protocol and that's that's

what we'll typically prescribe to our

patients is a four by four protocol of

you know highest intensity sustained for

four minutes followed by four minutes of

recovery and and then repeat that four

five six times

uh you know when you put that when you

put a warm-up and cool down on either

end of that you know that's a little

over an hour

um so you could would you spend that

hour doing that in an effort to make

your zone two even better

or would you just do an extra hour of

zone two

no that's a really good question so what

i what i i i agree i agree that uh you

can if you have a fifth day

you can convert it into any type of high

intensity uh session structured

or what i can tell people also hey if

you're a cyclist or a runner and you

want to go with your friends that's your

group ride yeah if you're right go ahead

and boom go at it or or if you don't

have the possibility

this is my situation for example where i

i don't have the time to train more than

an hour and a half usually two hours max

right so what i do almost on every

session i do my zone two

so it's clean

and at the end that's what i do a very

high intensity interval

and tell me the duration so if you did

an hour of zone two yeah so i do usually

let's say an hour and a half right so uh

and so you'll do an hour and a half of

zone two three or four times a week yeah

i try i shoot for four or five

but it'll not have all the time it's

easy uh but yeah i should for five

minutes try to be strict on that but

let's say that yeah the last uh and

unfortunately that you know i where i

live you know like uh i leave it more in

a

it's highlands area and uh so you have

to go up so the last part i just

i just go at it you know sometimes you

you find another cyclist and you just

compete you know to see who's the

the fastest in that short climb but i

tried to do like a good five minute

interval roughly um uh where i really

like kind of like i go hard at it and an

then alright i arrived home like

man i i kicked my ass today or or this

kicked my ass today or or sometimes you

try it and you don't have the energy as

i mentioned earlier oh my gosh i can

barely move the pedals today i just quit

and go home

but when i feel fresh you know that's

what i stimulate that glycolytic system

what we know well too is that

you know that increases the

mitochondrial function it takes months

or years

increasing the glycolytic system it

takes much much more

less amount of time you can do that in

weeks or months

and you can just if you stimulate a

regular base

two days a week or three days a week at

the end of that zone two that's where

you can target both

energy systems right the oxidative

mitochondrial system and the glycolytic

and we don't blunt it we don't we don't

we don't

blunt the benefit we had from the zone

two if we immediately follow it with the

zone five no because that's done right

that's not

what you see is like if you do things in

the middle but you don't want to do the

reverse order

yes and we don't want to start with the

high intensity exactly one of these like

because you start having all these

hormonal responses and also you see you

have high lactate levels in the blood

and what we know very well is like

lactate inhibits lipolysis

so if you have a high interval in the

middle or the beginning and you don't

clearly lactate very well you might have

high lactic levels for a while

and it's going to inhibit life policies

right also another study we have under

review lactate

at the outer cream level

it decreases the activity of cpt-1 and

cpt-2 so interface with the transport of

fatty acids as well

so that's where like if you do all these

you might change things you have high

cortisol cortisol anemia as well and

that's an important point i i'm glad you

raised that because i explained this to

patients when they say

um

i went out and did a two-hour ride today

and it showed me that i spent 45 of

those minutes 45 of those 120 minutes

were in zone 2. so i did 45 minutes of

zone 2 and i said no you didn't really

do it because you were going up and down

and up and down and up and down and so

that's not the same as spending 45

minutes in the dedicated uh energy

system you're right and if you i mean

when i look at the training picks you

know like you see the elite athletes

they're like

what power output and heart rate this is

like close together

incredible you know where yeah you're

right up now and down the average might

be zone two but actually you're between

oscillating so once on three zone four

all the time

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