Meet the YouTuber Who Solved Shorts (Jenny Hoyos Interview)

Summary

YouTuber Jenny Hoyos shares how she creates viral shorts, analyzing thousands to uncover best practices. She focuses on strong visual hooks, simple mechanisms pushing viewers to the end, expectations and twists, and concise scripts at a 5th grade reading level. Retention and rewatching matter more than high view % for virality. She structures shorts with a hook, foreshadow, transition, and storytelling with change. After massive shorts success, Jenny is strategically expanding to long-form for a new challenge and more personal creator-viewer relationships. She believes sharability impacts performance but lacks data, and retention rates don't directly correlate to viability despite assumptions.

Takeaways

• 😲 Jenny analyzes thousands of shorts to understand virality by scraping transcripts and hooks
• 📈 She focuses on strong, visual hooks that could work as video titles to draw viewers in
• ⌛️ Every second counts in a short video - losing even 1 second can significantly impact retention
• 🎯 Jenny aims for around 34 second shorts with at least 90% retention for optimal virality
• 😃 She generates ideas from her own life experiences and thoughts about what would make an interesting video
• 🔀 Jenny always includes a hook and foreshadowing in her shorts to set expectations and intrigue viewers
• 📃 She writes the final line of a video first before filming to have a clear ending in mind
• 👩‍👧‍👧 Jenny visualizes a specific audience avatar like her young nieces when brainstorming video ideas
• 🔁 Content differs across short form platforms - her strategy shifted from leading on TikTok to YouTube
• 📜 Despite her shorts success, Jenny wants to grow her long form channel to challenge herself and build deeper viewer relationships

Q & A

How does Jenny come up with ideas for her videos?

Jenny gets video ideas from watching YouTube and seeing what she wants to recreate or twist, using AI to generate ideas, and from experiences in her daily life that she thinks would make good video content.

What is Jenny's process for narrowing down her many video ideas?

Jenny narrows down her video ideas by first asking herself if she actually wants to make the video and if it's logistically possible. Then she looks at if the hook and mechanism are good and if it has virality potential. She further narrows it down by sending ideas to her video editor for additional filtering.

How does Jenny structure her shorts videos?

Jenny's shorts videos always start with a hook, then a line to foreshadow the ending. She then uses a smooth transition before going into the problem/solution or story. The videos end abruptly after a final surprising twist.

Why does Jenny want to start making more long-form videos?

Jenny feels she has achieved most of what she wants with shorts, so long-form represents a new challenge where she can experience more growth and fun. She also wants the closer relationship with viewers that comes with longer videos.

Who is the target audience for Jenny's shorts versus long-form videos?

Jenny targets a younger audience with her shorts, often imagining her young nieces watching. She expects long-form viewers to be more mature. Some shorts viewers may transition, but overall the audiences are different.

How did analyzing other popular shorts help Jenny?

By analyzing other top shorts creators, Jenny learned what video length, hook styles, pacing, and complexity work well. She also discovered retention and scroll-through benchmarks to aim for.

Why does Jenny believe retention percent is not as important?

Jenny has videos with lower retention that massively outperform videos from others that have incredibly high retention percentages. She believes viewer satisfaction involves more than just retention.

What are Jenny's theories around sharability?

Jenny believes sharability helps shorts success but lacks data to prove it. She shared one example of a video with very high sharing ratio and scroll-through rate, indicating sharing may have driven views.

How does Jenny adapt shorts for different platforms?

Jenny creates YouTube shorts to be slower paced and more story-driven. TikTok gets faster, dense videos under 30 seconds. She adds more visuals and subtitles to Instagram Reels.

What's Jenny's benchmark for retention percent in shorts?

For Jenny's channel, she finds shorts need at least 90% retention to take off and get significant visibility and reach.

Outlines

00:00

😁 Jenny shares how she consistently creates viral shorts

Jenny explains that she doesn't ask if a video will go viral, but rather figures out how to make it viral. She analyzes many popular shorts creators to understand what works. In this video, you'll learn how to create the perfect short, as every second counts.

05:00

😉 Jenny walks through her process for analyzing thousands of shorts

Jenny scraped transcripts of thousands of popular shorts to analyze why they work. She experimented with daily uploading to get more data. She gives an example of trimming one second off a video to improve retention and make it take off.

10:03

💡 Jenny generates video ideas from her own life experiences

Jenny gets many video ideas from her daily life and thinking about how experiences could be entertaining videos. Her best ideas come organically from living life. She gives examples like making a garden to have unlimited ratatouille and getting free laundry detergent.

15:03

🔎 Jenny narrows down her giant list of video ideas

Jenny narrows down her list of 1000+ ideas based on whether she wants to make them, if they're logistically possible, have a good hook and mechanism, and seem viral. She gets feedback from her video editor to select the top 10 out of 100 initial ideas.

20:05

⚙️ Jenny structures her shorts with consistent elements

Jenny structures every short with a hook, foreshadowing, and transition that retains pacing. She follows expectations set but adds a twist. Her shorts follow a But/Therefore storytelling format with lots of change to keep it intriguing.

25:05

🎥 Jenny films first then writes the final script

Jenny writes the hook and last line first before filming. She then films scenes before revisiting the script to revise and finalize it. The last line gives a general idea for the ending reaction without knowing exactly what will happen.

30:06

📝 Jenny tailors content specifically for each platform

Short form content performs differently on each platform. YouTube favors slower pace and story, while TikTok values shorter, denser videos. Jenny posting the same video to all three platforms yielded vastly different view counts.

35:07

🎓 Jenny wants to challenge herself by getting into long-form

Though Jenny doesn't see much more short form growth potential, long-form offers new fun and challenges. She studies long-form creators and plans to execute that knowledge, balancing both short and long-form content going forward.

Keywords

💡virality

Virality refers to the tendency of online content to spread rapidly and widely through shares and views. It is a key goal for Jenny in creating shorts. She aims to make videos that will get millions of views and be shared extensively. Examples from the script show her confidence in being able to make anything viral.

💡mechanism

Mechanism in this context refers to the structure or techniques used in a short video to captivate viewers and make them watch through to the end. Things like suspense, storytelling elements, expectations, and surprises are mechanisms. Jenny gives examples like a closing circle or a list of steps as mechanisms.

💡retention

Retention refers to the percentage of viewers who watch the full video vs clicking away early. High retention signals an engaging, captivating video. Jenny looks for over 90% retention as a benchmark. She hypothesizes retention may not matter as much for virality as people think.

💡scroll through rate

This metric tracks what percentage of viewers scroll past the video vs actually watching it when displayed among shorts. Jenny aims for a high scroll through rate above 85%.

💡hook

The hook refers to the opening seconds of a short video that grabs attention and compels viewers to keep watching. Jenny spends significant time crafting strong visual and verbal hooks that clearly convey what the video will contain.

💡foreshadowing

Jenny uses foreshadowing in the opening seconds after the hook to hint at the payoff that is coming at the end of the video. This sets expectations to keep viewers watching.

💡expectations

Setting audience expectations about what they will see in the video helps capture attention and retention. Jenny deliberately sets and then meets expectations, sometimes with a surprise twist.

💡storytelling

Storytelling refers to narrative elements that invest the audience and make them care what happens next. Jenny aims to create an intriguing through-line in even very short videos.

💡personality

Jenny says her shorts rely on her personality to connect with viewers. By being personal and showing who she is, she makes the audience invested.

💡sharability

This refers to videos inspiring high rates of sharing. Though Jenny doesn't have data yet, she hypothesizes sharability contributes significantly to shorts going viral.

Highlights

I have analyzed thousands of shorts by scraping the titles and transcripts to understand why these shorts are working

The hook needs to be very visual, you need to understand it without even listening to it and it needs to be so simply said like you said explain to a 5-year-old

On YouTube, retention doesn't matter as much as people think it does

To have that 90+ percent retention, which is the bare minimum for a short to blow up, you need them to watch it again

Every second counts on a short, every single second, because when you lose 1 second that's already 3 percent if it's a 30 second video

When making a hook, I just keep drawing and sketching or imagining until something just clicks

The best ideas come from just living and thinking 'this is a video idea'

I always have spoken time dedicated to foreshadowing in my shorts

Stories can't be stories without change

I noticed YouTube likes a slower, more mature pace and audience

I don't see that much more growth for me in shorts, the real growth and fun is going to come from learning long form

Money is not the reason I want to do long form, when I first started my entrepreneurship journey I was like money is everything, but then I realized it doesn't matter how much I'm making

I think sharability really matters but I haven't done enough analysis on that yet

I have a hunch that retention doesn't matter as much as people think it does. It can't just be viewer satisfaction, it can't just be retention

There are shorts creators who have a million subscribers and then they don't even get a thousand views on a long form and then they're like it's YouTube's fault, yeah but in reality it's their fault

Transcripts

I don't ask if it'll go viral I can

figure out how to make it viral that is

an absurd thing to

say that's Jenny Hoyos an 18-year-old

YouTuber who is absolutely crushing

shorts she's done over 600 million views

in the past year alone averaging 10

million views per video how does she do

it I have analyzed thousands of shorts

I've analyzed all of Mr B shorts all of

Ryan Tran's shorts and what I found was

in this episode you'll learn how to make

anything go viral I think you can make a

video about anything it's just adding

and how to create the perfect short

every second counts on a short like

every single second whatever you say

you're going to do you end it right

after you do it the differen is in short

form content platforms short form

content is not the same across platforms

I noticed that YouTube likes and a hot

take you might not be expecting

retention doesn't matter as much as

people think it

does you said this kind of aside you

said well I can make anything go viral

like if the idea is good I can make I

can make it go viral which is an absurd

thing to say and I want to hear what

that means to you how do you how do you

make anything go viral it's just adding

story and a Twist especially with shorts

since like no one's actually having to

click on your video I think you can make

a video about anything you can make

video about paint drwing and you can

make it entertaining if there's a story

around it and if the viewer is invested

what are your favorite ways to get

people invested how do you how do you

make a story that people care about I

think my content is very personality

based I'd say so for me making it

personal makes them invested I'll give

you an example I actually did this in a

long form in the video I cooked for

strangers to make money okay very

Baseline why should they care well my

kitchen is broken and I want to raise

money for it by cooking and making money

you know it's it's ironic like I'm my

kitchen's broken so in order to fix it I

have to cook to make money so I think

that's what makes people invested having

like some sort of personal why or goal

and irony too is pretty funny I like

that I like that irony ju to position

Jenny's the hero of the story exactly

what makes a good short when I think of

good it's very subjective so there's no

direct definition as to what makes a

good short because everyone has

different taste

but I can say what makes a good short to

me okay let's hear that to me a good

short is one that has a strong hook the

way I like to explain it is if it could

be used as a title in thumbnail on a

long form and like it will still get

clicks then it'll work for a short you

know so the hook needs to be very visual

you need to understand it without even

listening to it and it needs to be so

simple like so simply said like you said

explain to a 5-year-old so I think

that's one of the key things and then

also just a story that just you know

pushes you through and not only do you

watch to the end but you re-watch it

again so that's what makes a good short

to me let's say that you are planning or

want to create a new video how do you

start thinking about hooks or how do you

generate hooks it's it's very funny

because I like to I like to see shorts

like as like even though I don't do that

many long forms I like to see shorts as

if I'm making like a long form so like I

will sketch like almost as if it's tied

on thumbnails so like I have my iPad and

I draw like what would I visually want

it to look like what are different ways

if I was to put it together what would

that look like so when I'm making a hook

I just like keep drawing and sketching

or like even just imagining until

something just clicks so the first thing

is the visual easily the first thing is

the visual and then I figure out how I'm

going to accompany that Visual and what

I'm saying I try to make it as concise

as possible and I'll put it in a

readability Checker and then make sure

that it's actually like understandable

to at least like fifth grad or under H

what's what's the readability Checker

that you use uh I don't I don't know I

don't pay for it it's readability

formulas. comom is the one I use and you

want to be fifth grade or under fifth

grade or under yeah have you have you

played around with things that are uh

older quote unquote than that and seeing

that that's the level that it should be

at or how did you arrive at fifth grade

yeah so I have analyzed thousands of

shorts as you may know so I've like

scraped you know the scripts of a bunch

of shorts and I've put it in this

readability Checker and I've noticed

that the most popular shorts especially

Mr Beast you know Mr Beast is one of the

best shorts creators and his is like in

first grade level so I just basically

like after scraping everything that's

when I realized like fifth grade and

under is like about the range you want

to be at yeah I think yeah that's a

simply foot yeah how did you land on

fifth grade was that the average of all

of these I'm not going to lie the

readability can sometimes be off but it

was um it was just like at a range cuz I

I believe like like air for example is

like slightly higher I don't know the

exact number in the top of my head but I

I just noticed that like a good in

between as fifth grade but I will say

the problem with the readability is

especially like with content like mine

you can change the readability from

fifth grade to like eighth grade by

simply using the word business which is

why I try to avoid things like that or

if you use the word Finance or if you

use like for example profit instead of

saying profit I just explain the

definition of profit every time I talk

about it not know this about you I did

not know that you analyzed thousands of

shorts by scraping the titles and the

transcripts can you tell me more about

that yeah so it's so funny because like

basically the way I do it is you know

when you go on to YouTube and you open

up a short it sends you like even on

desktop it sends you to like this shorts

page or whatever but if you change the

url to like watch question mark V equals

then the URL then it will send you to

like the actual YouTube page and then

you can just click transcript copy and

paste that transcript and then I just

check the readability but I also like

check other things you know I just

analyze why these shorts are working so

interesting so interesting I I would

love to hear anything else that comes to

mind as you were looking at all this

that started to help you pull together

your own short strategy because I did

not realize that you had done all this

research and pulled all this together

this gets me very very excited as the

Creator Science Guy I am super excited

about this this research yes so I've

also like deeply analyzed all of my

videos and I think that's where you

learn the most everyone has different

audiences so what works for Mr Beast

might not work for me right so what I

did is like I did my own little

experiment like when I knew I wanted to

get into shorts I told myself I was

going to upload every day for as long as

possible and I think I only got like a

week or two in it didn't it I didn't I

didn't get that far but the goal was

essentially to upload as much as

possible quantity is what what makes

quality when I was doing that quantity I

would analyze my retention graph and

this is just like one example I'll just

pull out for you so there was one video

after 5 days I got I think it was like

50,000 views in 5 days right which I on

average I usually get like a million so

I was not happy with the performance and

I pulled up the retention graph and I

noticed on the last second it was a huge

dip it was 70% 1 second later it was 45%

like a 20 25% drop in 1 second and the

retention was 83% so what I did was I

went to YouTube Studio I trimmed off

that one second YouTube removed this

feature by the way YouTube please bring

it back but just by removing that one

second at the end it went from

83% to 88% and the video went flying and

that that's why like every second counts

on a short like every single second

because when you think about it let's

say you have a 30second short right if

you lose 1 second that's already 9 97%

that's three percentages you know if you

have lose two seconds that's 6% so when

you think about it un sure it's like

you're not just losing one second you're

losing double or even triple because

that one second accumulates to two or 3%

of the video the takeway here I believe

is that you really want in a short high

retention of course we want High

retention and everything but I've heard

some people talk about you really want

people to sometimes Loop and watch even

into a repeat of the thing is that true

yes yes and I'll explain why the average

scroll through rate which is basically

like on YouTube shorts you can see what

percentage who like what percentage of

people viewed versus swiped away and I

like to call it scroll through rate but

the average scroll through rate is like

70% you want to get that as high as

possible my personal scroll through rate

is like

85% so my average scroll through rate is

85% but my average retention is 90 85%

if only 85% of people are watching it

how does the retention subtly get to 95%

it's because they're rewatching it so to

have that like 90 plus perc retention

which is like in my opinion the bare

minimum like for a short uh blow up you

need them to watch it again so 90% is

your benchmark that's what you're

looking for for retention for something

that will have the the virality and

reach that you're accustomed to at this

point for the most part yes I will say

it depends on

the amount of Impressions because my

videos average like 95% retention but

we're talking like that's on 10 million

views so that's like it's very difficult

to do right so yeah okay so you

mentioned that with the hooks you think

about the visual nature of it are you

talking about the first frame of the

actual video yes I'm talking about the

first frame I don't know how many shorts

you've seen so I'll trying to explain it

I I've seen more than one but less than

you so let's let's assume on

yeah so I have this series where I

remake fast food items for a dollar

instead of like showing my face I show

the location I show the front of the

location because obviously like more

people know the fast food location than

they know me the easiest way to describe

like the video just visually is by

showing the fast food item in front of

the location so usually it's so funny I

would have the logo in the middle and

then I'll put the food item here and

then right in the middle I'll put like

$1 burrito $1 sandwich $1 Burger so then

it's like you perfectly see it it's

always perfectly aligned and it really

helps for bability too because it's

actually a playlist and I get a lot of

views from people like just like

watching it down and they they just know

it's me every time they see that framing

so interesting was this all trial and

error or did you model this this style

of of Framing and hook off of anyone in

particular it's definitely like pry and

error at first I started by I guess you

can say stealing like stealing like an

artist cuz that's how to me I I believe

that's how you learn sure you obviously

want to find your own style but I

started by like copying other people's

Hooks and then I was looking at like

Which percentage is the highest so I it

sounds so funny so like a a strategy a

technique is like what would it sound

like if this YouTuber made this video

and then I would make a bunch of hooks

depending on that so I'll have like a

list of like the big 10 and then I'll

just like you know have a bunch of

different hooks pick which one's my

favorite see the percentage and then

assess what's the best hook then I made

my own twist into it after quick break

Jenny walks me through her process for

coming up with great ideas so stick

around we'll be right

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and let them know that Jay sent you what

would you say is your proportion of like

video ideas to videos you actually

create oh gosh well I have like right

now in a Google doc I have a list of a

thousand ideas crazy and I'm only doing

10 crazy so so these are Depends these

are a thousand ideas not a thousand

hooks a thousand different video ideas

that could each have multiple different

hooks within them yes it's it's it's

crazy yeah where do they come from how

do you generate that many ideas okay

there's a lot of ways so one way is I

just watch YouTube and then see what I

personally you know like want to

recreate and like twist or it's like

what video do I want to watch or um as

funny as it sounds I also use ai ai has

some pretty good ideas but the best

ideas at least for me

personally they come from just living it

and then thinking this is a video idea

so let me explain that so one of my most

popular videos is me making a garden as

funny as it sounds because that sounds

like it would get no views yet it has

like I think it has like 30 million

views like so that's a ton there's so

many ideas where something like this

happened one day I was eating

Ratatouille because it's like one of my

favorite foods right and I'm like I

can't believe like it costs $20 to cook

and I'm like but can't I just make a

garden and then have unlimited

Ratatouille for like five bucks and I'm

like oh my gosh that's a video idea so

I'm like now I got to make a garden and

then I'm going to grow vegetables to

have infinite Ratatouille because it's

my favorite food so like that's where

the story came from or like another time

my grandma it was so funny she got like

like I think it was like laundry

detergent in the mail or whatever like

free laundry detergent and I'm like

how'd you get free laundry detergent

that's like 30 bucks and she was like oh

I called the company and I complained to

them I told them that they suck and they

sent me free laundry detergent and I'm

like that's a video I got to do that so

it's like you know just things that I

live and then I'm like that needs to be

a video those are my best ideas so how

do you go from a thousand ideas to

narrow it down to 10 what is the

deciding factor of which videos make the

cut yeah so I would say I narrow it I

narrow it down to like like let's say we

have 100 because 100's like an easier

number to work with so let's say we have

100 ideas I'll narrow it down to like 25

25 to 50 that's usually just based on

like the first thing I ask myself is do

I want to make it I don't ask if it'll

go viral I can figure out how to make it

viral if I really want to make it so

first I tell myself do I actually want

to make this is this actually

logistically possible and then it's like

is the hook good is the mechanism good

are people going to rewatch this then

that's when I look at like where's the

virality aspect in this then I'll bring

it down to 25 then from there I'll send

it to um my video editor who's also like

he's just like he's really involved in

the channel so he's not just a video

editor he's also like a strategist cuz

you know he's he he knows a lot about

YouTube and um I'll send it to him and

he'll bring my 25 to like 10 and he'll

basically he'll go in and tell me like

even further if it actually seems viral

if he thinks it's sharable but for him

like he's really good at telling if if a

concept is simple yet complex if that

makes sense M mhm you mentioned a word a

second ago you said is the mechanism

good what do you mean by mechanism if

they're going to be pushed to the end so

like a good example is Mr Beast the red

circle like is it like last Le Circle

wins

$500,000 the mechanism is the circle is

constantly closing so the viewer is

watching till the end so if if it was

just like the circle wasn't closing I

don't know if anyone watch to the end

they'll just skip to the end probably

interesting what are some of the

mechanisms that you've used I think this

is the easiest one that anyone can apply

it's basically saying there's three

steps or there's three things we need to

to do cuz it's very easy to follow and

you just showed the list of three so now

the viewer knows that oh we're getting

closer to the video like they actually

have a good expectation which is

probably one of the biggest things I

think that's I think that's why my

videos like go viral it's because people

have a good expectation of what they're

going to watch and what's actually going

to be at the end so when it comes to

expectations if you set expectations do

you find that then the the next step is

completely following through on those

expectations or do you try to like

subvert expectations for an element of

surprise or something I try to follow

those expectations but then have a twist

for example I gave my mom a $5 Mother's

Day gift the hook was my mom's Never Had

A Mother's Day gift so I'm going to

change that and buy her the best present

with $5 it was it was the why making

them car in the hook my mom's Never Had

A Mother's Day gift so I'm going to

change that then the expectation is so

I'm going to surprise her with a gift

for $5 on screen I'm showing me giving

her the gift but you're going to see

that till the end so it's like it's the

the cold open and then we cut to the

video so the expectation is by the end

of the video you're going to see me give

her a gift so then I follow through make

the gift and then I surprise her now I

gave them the expectation I closed the

loop that I'm going to surprise her with

this gift but the twist was she ended up

dropping the gift it broke and then

she's like you're the best daughter I've

ever had I'm like I I'm your only one

video ends so it's like yeah I I gave

that expectation that I'm GNA gift her

and then we just Twisted it at the end

how long would you say on average your

shorts are oh I know exactly the answer

because I've done the analysis okay

what's the answer it's it's exactly 34

seconds because my most popular videos

are exactly that length so I try to make

it exactly that length that was going to

be my next question was to say do is

that now your your benchmark for what

you're looking for in a video 34 seconds

yes so yes everyone's is different

everyone got to analyze it like for

their their own channel and I think I've

seen well I was in uh I was in Patty

Galler's accelerator and he showed some

research that he had done to show like

depending on your short length this is

the bar for retention you should be

shooting for so I'm guessing that 90%

retention is also related to the average

total length of your videos whereas if

it shorter maybe you need retention to

be higher to achieve the same virality

exactly yes correct so for me for my

personal Channel like I said like

there's no specific number I think

everyone just has to check out their

analytics but for me I noticed if a

short is less than 30 seconds it needs

to it has to have over 100% retention or

else it's not going to take off so

that's why I like to make it slightly

longer but too long is too long for my

audience since I do have a very young

audience if you know that you want your

videos to be about 34 seconds I'm

thinking if it's 34 seconds and you know

that you want your last second retention

to be really high it seems like the

payoff is like literally the last second

so now we got 34 33 seconds to work with

you probably know how long your hook

generally is so maybe that's you know 3

seconds or 5 seconds and you have this

remainder of 28 to 30 seconds in the

middle do you break that down into

specific pieces of the mechanism or is

that just kind of whatever happens in

the edit yeah so it's usually whatever

happens in the edit but what I do check

is before I film the video I will do a

rough script even if it's not even what

happens in the video like I'll just

roughly you know do it and I can just

change it later and from there I'll have

a sense of how long it is just from the

word count but I don't necessarily force

it I just let it free flow like you said

in the edit but I do have a rough idea

of the word count and my Hooks and

foreshadow I always do that in every

video I do a hook and then I foreshadow

which is two lines and that is usually 3

seconds or less and foreshadow you're

saying that

in that's in the voiceover because I

know you mentioned like that the example

of your your mom's gift when you see her

grab the package that's foreshadowing

away but that's completely visual you're

saying you dedicate some spoken time to

foreshadowing as well yes I always have

spoken time to foreshadowing it like it

doesn't matter what video idea it is

like like like let me just pull up like

a random idea like I'm going to the

beach right and then it's like why would

someone watch so that's the hook I'm

going to the beach and what's the

foreshadow I'm going to the beach and

I'm going to surprise someone with $100

at the end of the video it could

literally be with anything it just needs

to have some sort of expectation I want

to keep going down this the structure

Rabbit Hole a little bit more because I

keep finding new layers like I didn't

know foreshadowing as part of your

structure so is there anything that

comes after the hook and foreshadowing

that is a structural part of every video

yes there actually is so it will usually

be hook which is really short then I'll

for Shadle what's going to be at the end

then I have to smoothly transition so I

used to have like a lot of breaks cuz

you want to give people time to breathe

right because you don't want to be like

I'm going to be doing this and this and

this and this the video's over I didn't

like they they're not going to

understand anything so you want a pacing

break without the pacing actually

breaking let me explain what I mean by

that this I did this in my recent video

so it was like McDonald's banned this

item hook

so I'm going to make it at home then

convince them to put it back on the menu

That's the foreshadow and then at first

I wrote let's get started but that

breaks pace so instead of saying let's

get started I said so I cooked illegally

that that just flows better so I I don't

want to give like because I already gave

like two crucial pieces of detail so if

I give any more detail they're just

going to forget about that like premacy

recency if you I can get into that so

it's like they're going to forget what I

just said so we need a pacing break

without the pacing actually breaking if

that Mak sense yeah totally okay let's

keep going down this this Trail is there

is there more structural pieces past the

transition usually it's just like

problem solution or but therefore

storytelling okay tell me more about but

therefore storytelling basically but

therefore but therefore storytelling

simply put is just lots of change in the

story so a story stories can't be

stories without change for example I

went on a walk then it started raining

then I went back home it was much more

boring than if it was like I went on a

walk but it started raining therefore I

started running back home and I I it was

raining all over me but good thing I had

a handy umbrella while I was on my way

back therefore I got home like it's the

exact same story but it just sounds so

much more intriguing when you have like

but and or but there for I'm so glad

that you're able to like whip up these

examples on the Fly this is must be very

stressful the the spots I'm putting you

on but you're just like I got

it yeah so if I'm thinking from an order

of operation standpoint I'm I'm making

some assumptions I'm realizing and I

want to make sure I'm correct in them it

sounds like you have ideas first then

you narrow that down to a small number

of ideas and ultimately a video that you

say yes this idea my editor and I have

decided is a good one uh you come up

with versions of the hook and then it

seems like you you start recording and

after recording you start editing and

then after editing comes the transcript

for the voiceover did I get that right

you were close you were close like you

said ideas then I find that one idea

then I'll write my hook then I'll write

the last line so I always know the last

line when I'm going to film then I'll go

back and then after the hook I figure

out how I'm going to foreshadow that I I

will always have the hook for so I

always have two lines so it' be like

hook foreshadow and um but in between it

would be like it depends on the video

sometimes it will be a rough script like

we were saying so I can have that

structure in mind or it will just be

bullet points of things I want to touch

on while I'm filming then I will film

once I filmed I will revisit the script

again revise it finalize it then it goes

in edit how do you write the last line

without knowing what comes out in the

filming it's You' like leave it in blank

so it would be like for example if I'm

surprising someone with a gift the last

line would be then like it's so simple

then I surprise my mom and and then

blank it's usually reaction just to have

a general idea yes yeah exactly yes okay

I was watching your videos this morning

and I I was like really

I I took note of the fact that they all

end very abruptly but like not in a way

where I'm like what happened it's it's

like it's pleasing but it is abrupt and

we already talked about how you you kind

of learned this and you trimed it off

but it is like and I surprised my mom

and you know and then and then her

reaction and then end you mentioned a

moment ago that the age of your audience

is typically a little bit younger how

much do you think about who the audience

is when you think of ideas you know

because in my world to step back a

second in my world a lot of times folks

have like a very specific Avatar that

they're creating for who's trying to

achieve some sort of specific goal I

don't think that's the same in more of

the entertainment space so I love to

hear to what level of detail you think

about an audience member in your mind

yeah that's everything Avatar is

everything so for me I will think of

like specific people so I will think of

like me when I was younger I'll think

about like the these are my favorites to

think about by the way my my

nieces are 10 years old 10 I have two

nieces that are seven and 10 and they

just moved to America last year so they

barely understand English and that's

that's who I want to speak to it's it's

very tough because they might not be

interested in the topic but if I can

make them interested and especially if

it makes sense to them as non-english

speakers then it's probably really good

so that's the way I see it it's not

necessarily thinking of like their their

dreams their

desires but more so how can you speak to

them I just it just I don't know if that

makes sense cuz it's like it's it's

different it it makes sense it's

interesting for me to hear because I

just don't speak to folks on the more

entertainment side of the Creator world

as often so actually I'm just coming at

it from Natural Curiosity to hear how

you do think about it I would imagine at

the level of views you're getting tens

of Millions on these on these videos

it's a broad spectrum of people who are

looking at this so who do you who do you

choose as the core of yes people outside

of this type of person maybe it's my

nieces will watch this but I'm making it

for this person in particular I didn't

know if you had that specificity or not

like I said I do and I don't so it's in

the sense of like I it's mainly like my

younger self which is like kind of weird

because I can't actually my younger self

can't actually watch it but that's like

the way I think of it if that makes

sense yeah for sure for sure can we talk

a little bit about Instagram reals and

Tik Tok and how you think about those

because a lot of times people think

short form vertical video same

everywhere choose wherever you're

leading and then just post it to all

three and it's clear that your your

YouTube is is much bigger than the other

two platforms and those other two

platforms are much bigger than mine so

that's not any judgment on you but I'm

curious what you're hearing or what

you're experiencing in terms of how this

does or does not translate hey real

quick before they respond I want to let

you know that there are bonus Audio Only

episodes of Creator science that air

every Tuesday when we don't publish a

video episodes like number 156 where I

talk with my editor Connor about our

first year on YouTube or number 37 with

Oli abdal if that's interesting just

search for Creator science wherever you

listen to podcasts all right back to the

show yeah so sh from content is not the

same across platforms and I know this

because I used to do very well on Tik

Tok before I was doing well on YouTube

In fact when I had like a thousand

subscribers on YouTube I had like 70k on

Tik Tok so I was doing much better and I

was averaging like a million views per

Tik Tok What was crazy is I remember at

this at this point I was posting to all

three platforms but Tik Tok was getting

all the views YouTube shorts and

Instagram re we're getting like none of

it were you thinking about one of those

platforms as like your lead platform at

that time it was definitely Tik Tok so

you're thinking I'm making this video

for Tik Tok I'm also posting to reals

and I'm also poting posting shorts

correct but it wasn't edited on the Tik

Tok app like it would still be filmed

you know like professionally and then

edited it and then posting on Tik Tok

the same video that would get 1 million

views on Tik Tok would get a th000 views

on YouTube shorts and I was like okay

let me switch a strategy because I

bought banned on Tik Tok like for a

short period of time I'm like let me

focus on YouTube and then the opposite

happened I started averaging 1 million

views on YouTube and then a thousand on

Tik Tok I'm like this is really strange

like these platforms definitely won

different content and what I found

YouTube

likes definitely a slower more mature

you know it's a more mature audience so

they want like a slower Pace more story

so those would be like the 34 second t

uh 34 second shorts that I'm making

right now Tik Tok on the other hand did

not like did not like videos over 30

seconds it liked 10 to 20 second videos

that were just like dense with

information not that many jokes just

like you know just just scroll they were

just trying to scroll as much as

possible ver the Instagram reals was

also slightly more mature but because

they have that mute feature a lot of

those videos would be very Visual and

would have like subtitles in every

second and would have like a lot of

sharability since it's very it's it's

very easy to share on Instagram how do

you think about long form now is it

something that you aspire to do more of

how does it play into the Jenny Hoyos

Universe yes the Jenny Hoyos Universe

sounds like the

MCU but yeah I I really want to get into

long form I want to become established

there basically what I did to shorts is

exactly what I'm doing to long form I

have been studying long forms for the

past year learning as much as I can

analyzing everything and now it's just

time to execute so the goal is to pull

off what I did on shorts on long form

and then just you know upload a uh

upload a good amount between them I'm

never going to quit shorts it's just

going to be a good balance between the

two what does long form represent to you

that it's a priority you know you're so

good at shorts you're you're like at the

top of the mountain there why is long

form something that's calling to you you

know I

think I mean it's a lot of reasons I

feel it's kind of tough saying it but I

think that they simply put I don't see

that much more growth for me in shorts

like sure I can start averaging like 100

million views but it's like the real

growth and fun is going to come from

learning long form there about the

journey you know it's like um it sounds

so bad to say but I feel like I've

already achieved my goal for like for

shorts you know and it's like I I want

to you know challenge myself again I

just don't feel like I'm challenging

myself with shorts this is a guess in

short yeah no it's valid I your your

reasons are your reasons they're totally

valid I was I was I was wondering if it

had anything to do with like is a

relationship to the audience different

in long form I'm sure there's more money

in long form and I was wondering if

those were part of the decision or if it

was just a you know time to climb a new

Mountain type situation I will say as

ironic as it sounds money is not the

reason why like when I first like

started my entrepreneurship journey I

was like money is everything right but

then when I I started YouTube I realized

like it doesn't matter how much I'm

making like I'm just doing this so money

like it's crazy as funny as it sounds

because my content is all about money I

don't even care Oh much I'm

thinking funny as it sounds it's weird

how it works but yeah is yeah the yeah

it's just I think I think there is a

better relationship with the viewer I

feel like it's just it's just more it's

more it's more personal you know like

you guys are spending more time together

for sure I think it is like a time spent

situation like I feel like we really

build trust as a function of time spent

and the more time you spend with

somebody like the more of a relationship

you build relationships are built on

trust curious if you think that your

short audience will transition into long

form or if you're thinking about you

know the audience themselves the same

like are these long form videos also

going to be for your 10-year-old nieces

it's it's a different audience you know

it's really funny I want to tell this

story because I thought it was

absolutely hilarious and it's just going

to open up like because to me it was it

was huge I had a little cousin uh visit

my house it was the first time I ever

met her cuz she was also from another

country and and she she's like 7 years

old she came into my house first thing

she said I'm cousins with a famous

YouTuber it was so funny then the second

thing she said she was like telling me

how like she loves my shorts and she was

like you know what you should check out

I was like I was on YouTube and I

noticed like they have these like

horizontal videos that are like shorts

but just like long and I was like crazy

that's crazy that type of thing breaks

my mind it's like it's like the videos

where it's like we asked Jen Z to listen

to and it's like insert band from my

childhood here and like this is

bad exactly it was one of those moments

where it realized it opened it it was

like that those are really two different

audiences cuz there's some people who

probably don't even know long forms or a

thing and vice versa some people that

don't even know shorts or thing then

there's the people that know both so I

know I'm going to get you know I'm not

going to get all of my audience I have

had some audience transition but yeah

that's where I'm at

and you think that's a is that a YouTube

thing or is that an audience preference

thing I think it's an audience

preference thing for sure yeah I think

YouTube's doing like as funny as it

sounds because I feel like a lot of

shorts creators like oh I feel so bad

saying this because I'm not one of them

but I'm calling them out like there's

shorts creators who have like a million

subscribers and then they don't even get

like a thousand views on a long form and

then they're like it's YouTube's fault

yeah but like in reality it's like their

fault you know like um I average like 10

million views on shorts and then on Long

forms I'm averaging like 50k views you

know so it's like I think they're doing

a pretty good job at like transitioning

them just obviously not everyone's going

to transition all right last question

which I love to ask people is there

anything that you believe to be true and

we can relate it to YouTube or shorts

but you don't yet have data to support

oh there's there's a couple I'm trying

to think what I should I think I got a

good one I'm going to say two okay

there's two that are really good bonus I

think sharability really matters but I

haven't done enough like analysis on

that yet but I'm sure I can do my own

analysis it's it's very tough cuz

there's a lot of factors to that that

come into play because you know I could

argue this video has a lot of shares

that's why I blew up but then I could

also just argue that the retention was

high so do you really know I I don't

know so that that's my hinch I think

sharability really does help although I

will say like one of my shorts it has

like such high shares it has like what

was it like the shares to view ratio

it's 20% % which is extremely high that

seems very high and the scroll through

rate is like 92% which is insane and

it's probably because the sharff are are

that high and then my second hunch is

that retention doesn't matter as much as

people think it does say more it's very

interesting because I have a lot of

friends like who will send me their

retention graphs or like their data

their analytics and there's people like

within like a similar amount of

impressions as me like their retention

will be so much higher than mine there's

friends like they would have like a 40c

short that has like 100k views and over

100% retention and I'm like oh my gosh

this video is going to get like 10

million views and like it's it's not

even Niche either but then it never it

never does that but then for me like

yeah like for me what's crazy is like

you know I I've had a short before where

it had like 70% retention on the first

100K views which is like really bad like

really really bad for shorts and it

still got like 10 million views because

it was like all returning viewers

you know so it's like I just have a

hunch that like you know like I don't

know I don't know what it is what what

how they're measuring it it's just

viewer satisfaction it can't it can't

just be retention you

know