“I defy you to show me discrimination…” EAM S Jaishankar’s challenge on minority issues in India

Summary

The speaker argues that India has a deeply pluralistic underlying culture with unique diversity across multiple axes like ethnicity, faith, language, and traditions. He contends that India's diversity naturally fosters disagreements and corrections, unlike more homogeneous societies that impose conformity. Regarding minorities, he challenges anyone to show present-day discrimination in India, arguing that digital governance has increased fairness. He acknowledges global criticisms, some from politically motivated groups upset over losing privileges. However, he highlights India's social welfare expansion for the poor regardless of background. Though turbulent, he sees this as part of a democratic society's development.

Takeaways

• 😊 India has a deeply pluralistic underlying culture with immense diversity across multiple dimensions like ethnicity, faith, language, traditions etc.
• 👥 This diversity leads to natural conversations, discussions and attempts to balance different perspectives.
• 🌏 India's diversity is unique globally and cannot be easily understood by outsiders lacking context.
• 📈 India is undergoing tremendous change via social welfare policies aimed at housing, health, food etc for all.
• ☮️ Governance has become more faceless and digital leading to greater fairness in access to rights and amenities.
• 🔎 There is little evidence today of discrimination in the provision of benefits to minorities in India.
• 😕 Criticism of India's treatment of minorities is often driven by political or cultural biases rather than facts.
• 🗳 India has a history of vote bank politics that may cause some resentment towards loss of previously privileged status.
• 🇮🇳 The turbulence arising from India's diversity is part of the journey of a democratic society.
• 🔊 Judgments about India's minorities are often based on sound bites rather than deeper understanding.

Q & A

How does the speaker describe the diversity and pluralism in India?

The speaker says India has deeply pluralistic underlying culture with unique diversity across multiple axes like ethnicity, faith, language, traditions etc. He says India is the most diverse space in the world.

What does the speaker say about the nature of diversity in India?

The speaker says that with such diversity, there will always be conversations, discussions, attempts to balance things, corrections etc. He calls it the 'turbulence of a democratic society'.

How does the speaker respond to concerns about discrimination against minorities in India?

The speaker challenges anyone to show discrimination in access to rights, amenities and benefits like housing, healthcare, food, finance, education etc. He says digital governance has made things more fair and faceless.

What does the speaker say is the biggest change happening in India today?

The speaker says the biggest change is the creation of a social welfare system in a low per capita income country like India. He says no other country has done this before.

How does the speaker explain the criticism or complaints from some sections?

The speaker says some privileged sections who resent losing their tax benefits are politicizing or 'wrapping' their grievances. He refers to the culture of vote banks.

What analogy does the speaker use to explain the reactions of outsiders?

The speaker analogizes outsiders to someone listening to conversations in the next room and making judgments based on snippets, without knowing the people.

How does digital governance aid fairness according to the speaker?

The speaker says digital governance makes things more fair and faceless by removing human discretion and biases.

What turbulence does the speaker attribute to Indian democracy?

The speaker attributes the conversations, disagreements and corrections happening in India to the 'turbulence of a democratic society' with diversity.

How is the social welfare system in India unique globally as per the speaker?

The speaker says that creating a welfare state in a low income country like India has never been done before globally.

What privilege loss does the speaker blame for some grievances?

The speaker blames the loss of tax privileges and benefits for some sections as a reason for their political grievances.

Outlines

00:00

🤔 India's Deeply Pluralistic Culture

Paragraph 1 discusses India's deeply pluralistic culture and layers of diversity across ethnicity, faith, language and traditions. It argues this makes India uniquely diverse. The speaker acknowledges natural disagreements in such diverse societies but sees India as increasingly fair in its governance with expanded social welfare.

05:03

😕 Addressing Minorities and Political Gripes

Paragraph 2 continues on Indian diversity and fair governance. The speaker challenges anyone to show discrimination, arguing digital governance has increased fairness. However, global exposure leads some to gripe about minorities' treatment. The speaker suggests much criticism is political from vote banks now losing privileges.

Keywords

💡pluralistic

The speaker describes India as having a 'deeply pluralistic' culture, meaning India is very diverse in terms of ethnicity, faith, language, and traditions. This pluralism and diversity is a defining feature of India and sets it apart from other societies. The speaker argues this pluralism leads to natural disagreements and conversations as different groups balance their interests.

💡diversity

Diversity refers to the presence of multiple ethnicities, faiths, languages, and traditions within Indian society and culture. The speaker emphasizes India's diversity is 'unique' and unparalleled globally in its multiplicity of diversity across different axes. He argues this diversity leads to ongoing dialogues as groups negotiate a social balance.

💡discrimination

Discrimination refers to unfair differential treatment towards certain social groups. The speaker challenges listeners to show evidence of discrimination in contemporary Indian governance and policy. He argues Indian systems have become more equitable and inclusive as they utilize digital systems and social welfare programs.

💡minorities

Minorities refers to ethnic, religious, or linguistic groups that comprise a smaller share of the overall population. The speaker acknowledges concerns about the treatment of minorities in India but argues governance has become more impartial and minorities receive equal amenities, benefits, access and rights.

💡digital

Digital refers to computing and internet technologies that mediate governance systems and access to services. The speaker argues digital systems allow more impartial and faceless governance in India, enhancing fairness and reducing discrimination.

💡governance

Governance refers to the systems, policies, and institutions that manage Indian society. The speaker claims Indian governance has become fairer as digital systems make it more impersonal and social welfare expands to all groups regardless of identity.

💡social welfare

Social welfare refers to government programs providing housing, healthcare, food, finance, and education access to citizens. The speaker highlights the rapid expansion of social welfare in India as evidence of unbiased governance, given benefits now reach low-income groups across all identities.

💡democratic society

India has a democratic political system, meaning governance accountability derives from multi-party elections involving the population. The speaker argues disagreements and corrections are inevitable in such an openly pluralistic and democratic society through elections and interest group lobbying.

💡vote banks

Some political groups in India have traditionally relied on vote banks, which refers to blocks of loyal voters from ethnic, caste or religious groups. The speaker implies resentment may exist from those who resent losing exclusive access and privileges once conferred by appealing to vote banks.

💡turbulence

Turbulence refers to the conflicts, debates and corrections the speaker sees as intrinsic to India's dynamic and evolving political landscape. He views these as a healthy sign of a vibrant, democratic society actively engaging with its issues.

Highlights

The underlying culture of India is deeply pluralistic with diversity and layers that make it unique

India's diversity leads to natural conversations, discussions, attempts to find balance which is the nature of diversity

India is a much looser society where people naturally disagree as part of the national character

Outsiders often misunderstand India's diversity by only hearing snippets of conversation without full context

The real test of good governance and social balance is whether there is discrimination in access to rights and benefits

India is undertaking tremendous change by creating a social welfare system with low per capita income, unprecedented globally

India's increased digitization has made governance more faceless and fair with less discrimination

Some minorities resent losing previous privileges and use political rhetoric against government

India has housing, healthcare, food, financial, educational and health access without discrimination

Cardinal Dolan expressed concern about religious minorities in India without full context

American politicians often have strongly held, electorally or culturally driven views on India

India's diversity leads to correcting balances and discussions naturally

Imposed conformity removes India's diversity and dissent

No society has achieved equitable access and rights with India's low income

India's turbulence comes from being a democratic society with diversity and disagreement

Transcripts

the underlying culture of India is

deeply pluralistic diversity and the

layers that you get in India and you can

slice it in different ways it could be

ethnicity it could be faith it could be

language

it could be Traditions uh it's it's an

it's actually unique I defy you to show

me discrimination more digital we have

become the more uh more in a way

faceless the the governance has become

actually it's become fair I wrote a

column about India in the Wall Street

Journal and I got a there was a letter

to the editor from Cardinal Dolan who

was a very well respected man I

personally respect tremendously uh to

the journal expressing his concern that

I hadn't said enough in my column about

problems of religious minorities in in

India so

um how how would you

sort of try to shape the conversation or

how would you respond to some of these

concerns that that people have here

uh

X because you know I think different

people uh uh if I I don't know Cardinal

Dolan uh I'm a little more familiar with

American politicians including members

of Congress so I'm not you know I know

many of them have

a strong views often ah electorally

driven sometimes culturally driven all

of that so I'm a little hesitant to

address specific examples so but as a

broad proposition yes yes look as a

broad proposition uh you know all I can

say where India is concerned is

the underlying culture of India is

deeply pluralistic

in fact I cannot think of any society in

the world and I've lived in many of them

whether I look at Europe or look at

North America North America us is very

pluralistic

China I've lived in Russia

the the diversity and the layers that

you get in India and you can slice it in

different ways it could be ethnicity it

could be faith it could be language

it could be Traditions uh it's it's in

it's actually unique it's it's truly in

multiple accesses the most diverse

space in the world

now ah

it is something now when you have that

kind of diversity that diversity will

always have its own conversations and

discussions it will be there will be

attempts to get a certain balance right

there will be Corrections there will be

Recollections it's in the nature of

diversity the only way you won't have

those dialogues is when you don't have

diversity or when you have imposed

something so strong that you know

everything is okay in that place because

everybody has either been forced to

agree or condition to agree with each

other so we actually are a much more

loser Society where uh there are you

know there is a almost a natural

inclination to disagree and that is our

national character now when you have

people who do not who have not come

through that experience who for them you

know are listening it's like you're

listening to the next room you really

don't know the people in the Next Room

you're picking snatches of conversation

and then you are making a judgment or a

opinion based on that particular sound

bite that that you picked up so ah today

if since you brought up the issue of

minorities in India look what is the

what is the uh test really of of uh of

fair and good governance

or of the balance of a society it would

be whether in terms of uh you know the

the

amenities the benefits the access the

rights do you discriminate or not you

know and and in every society in the

world at some point there's been some

discrimination on some basis so if you

look at India Today ah you know and and

I you know it's it's a it's a society

today where there's a tremendous change

taking place because people are get I

mean the biggest change happening today

in India is the creation of a social

welfare system in a society which has

less than three thousand dollars per

capita income nobody has done that in

the world before now when you look at

the benefits of that you look at housing

you look at Health you look at Food you

look at Finance you look at you know

educational Access Health Access

there's no you know I I defy you to show

me discrimination I mean in fact the the

more digital we have become uh the more

uh more in a way faceless the the

governance has become actually it's

become Fair

uh but as I said this is a globalized

world there will be people you know you

will have people gripe about it and lot

of much of the wrapping is also

political let me be very Frank with you

because we've also had a culture of vote

Banks and there are there are sections

who had in their own eyes or certain

privileged taxes who today May May

resent the fact that they don't and you

know it's a phenomenon with which you

are not unfamiliar and I think these

will be the turbulence of a Democratic

Society