"Doing This After Exercise Is Blunting Your Gains" - Exercise Scientist
Summary
TLDRThe discussion delves into the effects of cold water immersion on muscle recovery, particularly after resistance training. Research indicates that immediate cold water immersion post-workout may hinder muscle protein synthesis and glycogen restoration, potentially reducing the benefits of training. The timing of immersion is crucial, with later immersion possibly being less detrimental. The conversation also touches on the potential benefits for endurance athletes and the importance of considering individual athletic goals when incorporating recovery techniques.
Takeaways
- 🧊 Cold water immersion can have neuroendocrine effects and is used by physically active individuals for recovery and to reduce inflammation.
- 🏋️♂️ Research has shown that cold water immersion immediately after resistance training may hinder muscle protein synthesis and recovery.
- 📊 The study mentioned in the transcript used intrinsically labeled protein to track its distribution and found less stimulation of muscle protein synthesis in cold water.
- 🌡️ Lower temperatures can inhibit perfusion and reduce enzyme activity in muscles, which may affect recovery processes.
- 🔍 A two-week study with six training sessions indicated that cold water immersion had a measurable negative impact on muscle protein synthesis.
- ⏰ The timing of cold water immersion is crucial; it may not be beneficial to use it immediately after resistance training.
- 🏊♂️ Cold water immersion originated in sports where muscle damage and inflammation were significant, helping to minimize damage rather than enhance reconditioning.
- 🤔 The optimal timing for cold water immersion post-exercise is still speculative, but waiting for several hours might be less detrimental to muscle protein synthesis.
- 🏃♂️ For endurance athletes, the effects of cold water immersion on performance and neuromuscular function might be different and could be beneficial.
- 🚰 The speaker suggests that cold water immersion on non-training days or later in the day might be preferable to avoid hindering muscle recovery.
- 🔄 The transcript highlights the importance of considering the broader implications of training and recovery strategies beyond just muscle gains.
Q & A
What is the main topic of discussion in the transcript?
-The main topic of discussion is the effects of cold water immersion on muscle recovery and gains, particularly after resistance training.
Why are people interested in cold water immersion for recovery?
-People are interested in cold water immersion for recovery because it is believed to help blunt inflammation of the muscles and enhance recovery.
What did the speaker's study find regarding cold water immersion after resistance training?
-The study found that cold water immersion immediately after resistance training resulted in less stimulation of muscle protein synthesis and less protein going to the muscles.
How does cold temperature affect muscle recovery according to the transcript?
-Cold temperature affects muscle recovery by inhibiting perfusion and reducing enzyme and process activity in the muscles, which compromises muscle protein synthesis and glycogen restoration.
What was the duration of the study the speaker mentioned?
-The study lasted for two weeks, with six training sessions and fifteen minutes of cooling after each session.
What was the conclusion of the study regarding the impact of cold water immersion on muscle protein synthesis over two weeks?
-The conclusion was that the total protein synthesis in the muscles that received cooling was measurably less compared to the control, indicating a negative impact on muscle protein synthesis.
Why might cold water immersion still be used after exercise despite the study's findings?
-Cold water immersion might still be used because it originated from sports where there was massive muscle inflammation and blunt force trauma, and it was beneficial for minimizing damage and aiding in recovery.
What is the speaker's opinion on the timing of cold water immersion for optimal muscle reconditioning?
-The speaker suggests that cold water immersion should not be used acutely after the exercise session, implying that waiting for a few hours or doing it on a non-training day might be better.
How does the speaker relate the findings of the study to endurance training?
-The speaker speculates that similar effects might be observed in endurance training, with less amino acid uptake by the muscles after cold water immersion, but acknowledges that the study was conducted on resistance training.
What is the speaker's view on the potential benefits of cold water immersion for high-intensity intermittent exercise?
-The speaker believes that cold water immersion might be beneficial for high-intensity intermittent exercise where there is significant muscle damage and inflammation, as it could help dampen the acute inflammatory response and less compromise subsequent performance.
What hormone is mentioned in the transcript as being involved in the vasoconstriction response to cold water immersion?
-Norepinephrine is the hormone mentioned as regulating the vasoconstriction response to cold water immersion.
How long does the speaker think the vasoconstriction response to cold water immersion might last?
-The speaker is unsure about the exact duration of the vasoconstriction response, but mentions that the effects were still visible after six hours in their study.
Outlines
🏊♂️ Cold Water Immersion and Muscle Recovery
This paragraph discusses the effects of cold water immersion on muscle recovery, particularly after resistance training. The speaker mentions their research on neuroendocrine responses and the impact of cold water on inflammation and muscle protein synthesis. They highlight a study where subjects were immersed in cold or neutral water post-exercise, revealing that cold water immersion hindered muscle protein synthesis and glycogen restoration for at least six hours. The reduced enzyme activity and overall muscle process due to lower temperatures were suggested as reasons for this effect. The paragraph also touches on the potential long-term effects of cold water immersion over two weeks, indicating a measurable negative impact on muscle protein synthesis.
🏋️♂️ Endurance Training and Cold Water Immersion
The second paragraph delves into the application of cold water immersion in endurance training and its effects on performance and neuromuscular function. The speaker speculates that similar negative effects on muscle protein synthesis might occur after endurance training as observed in resistance training. They also discuss the possible benefits of cold water immersion in high-intensity, intermittent exercises where muscle damage and inflammation are significant. The paragraph raises questions about the duration of vasoconstriction effects post-immersion and the timing of cold water immersion relative to training for optimal muscle recovery. The speaker suggests that waiting several hours or performing immersion on non-training days might be more beneficial for muscle recovery and reconditioning.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Cold Water Immersion
💡Neuroendocrine Effects
💡Muscle Protein Synthesis
💡Resistance Training
💡Inflammation
💡Perfusion
💡Glycogen Restoration
💡Norepinephrine
💡Endurance Training
💡Vasoconstriction
Highlights
Cold water immersion is being researched for its neuroendocrine effects and recovery benefits for physically active individuals.
There is interest in how cold water affects the blunting of inflammation and muscle recovery.
A study was conducted to examine the effects of cold water immersion on muscle protein synthesis post-resistance training.
Cold water immersion immediately after resistance training was found to decrease muscle protein synthesis stimulation.
Protein infusion into muscles was less in the cold water group, indicating compromised recovery.
Lower temperatures may inhibit perfusion and reduce enzyme activity in muscles, affecting recovery.
Surprisingly, the negative impact of cold water on muscle protein synthesis was still evident after two weeks.
Cold water immersion may not be optimal for muscle reconditioning due to its effects on protein synthesis.
The practice of cold water immersion post-exercise originated from sports with high muscle trauma.
For resistance training, cold water immersion should not be used immediately after the exercise session.
Speculation suggests that waiting six hours post-resistance training before cold water immersion might still affect muscle protein synthesis.
The optimal timing for cold water immersion in relation to exercise is still under discussion.
Endurance training might respond differently to cold water immersion compared to resistance training.
Studies show no effect or a dampening effect of cold water on performance in high-intensity intermittent exercises.
The duration of the vasoconstrictive effects of cold water immersion on muscle perfusion is unclear.
A potential study could involve comparing different timing strategies for cold water immersion in relation to training sessions.
The focus on muscle recovery should consider the overall optimization of training and reconditioning.
Cold water immersion's impact on muscle gain might be less if done on recovery days rather than immediately after training.
Transcripts
so um I do want to kind of shift gears
because cold water immersion is an area
that you have done research in and I'm
personally interested in the
neuroendocrine effects of cold water
immersion a lot of Physically Active
people are interested in using cold
water immersion for recovery for
enhancing um sorry for blunting
inflammation of the muscle but you've
shown and maybe you can talk about your
study about you know doing cold water
immersion immediately after resistance
training can blend some Gam
do you think the timing of cold water
immersion can affect you know whether or
not you're going to blunt those gains
because you want you want to keep doing
those cold showers yes I'm doing those
as well so um so yeah I mean I think I
mean with looking at heart rate
variability and stuff like that I mean
I've been experimenting with that myself
as well with the C Showers and the The
Ice B and but of of course uh from a
muscle uh perspective um nothing makes
sense on recovery after exercise that
cold would actually be helpful so um we
did a study where we used the intrinsic
labeled protein so we could track where
the protein goes uh acutely but also
more longterm and after exercise we put
One lag in cold water and one in Thon
neutral water and we saw that the lag in
the cold cold water did not get the same
stimulation of muscle protein synthesis
and basically less of the protein would
actually go to the lag less profusion
less stimulation of muscle protein
synthesis so from at least for the first
6 hours it seems evident that acute
recovery recovery in the light of muscle
protein
synthesis glycogen restoration is
actually compromised by the by the lower
temperature part of that is that because
you inhibit per Fusion but also of
course all the enzyme and all the
process activity in the muscle is also
reduced by a lower temperature because
that that's just what
happens I was surprised that uh I
thought like hey maybe then you
compromise that acute recovery phase but
then you maybe catch up later on when
you warm up so that if you do this over
two weeks it doesn't make any difference
so we continue doing that for if I'm not
not incorrect over two weeks with six
training sessions and so it's six
training sessions we've only up to about
15 minutes of cooling I thought that
could never have an effect over those
full two weeks and if there's an effect
we wouldn't be able to pick it up but we
did and over those two weeks total
protein synthesis in that lag that
received cooling compared to the other
was actually less and actually
measurable less so that six times 15
minutes cooling over two
weeks 14 days 2 4 hours had a negative
impact on the stimulation of muscle
protein synthesis my only conclusion is
is that the reconditioning is therefore
not
optimal now if you still want to do the
cooling now the shower is only short but
would it be uh good to do it at
different times I think so um why is
everybody then still doing the uh the
cold water immersion after exercise I
think it came from from Sports where you
basically hurt the muscle where there's
massive inflammation where there's uh
blunt force trauma on the muscle that
actually you you you basically support
the muscle in recovery not recover not
the reconditioning but
basically minimize the damage and then
people started using it for other sports
as well but I think for resistance
training or for uh and doen training
it's you shouldn't be using it at least
not acutely after the exercise session
and you said something that I picked up
on you said for six hours do you think
that if you do cold water immersion and
you wait six hours after resistance
training that you would uh still affect
muscle protein synthesis I mean pure
speculation I think it would be less um
so um but then the other question is
then uh for your um um your other
benefits whatever they are of course
there's also a lot of discussions on
that do you need to to do that 15 15
minutes um is it better to do it the
other day
um at least the first few hours I think
are essential for the muscle I would
stay away from the cold there is it okay
to do it then in the evening or the next
day I would favor that as opposed to the
other one MH SO waiting for Recovery
days now you mentioned endurance
training but um you know there are
studies showing that cold water
immersion can enhance performance
endurance trainers and also enhance
neuromuscular function you're talking
about that probably not as these people
aren't you know you know they're the the
the resistance training is really
stimulating muscle so I'm wondering if
you could do it perhaps on an endurance
training day maybe wait a few hours
again um I don't I think we would have
found exactly the same thing if we had
done endurance training uh so this was
resistance training uh I think if we had
done endurance training you would also
have less of your amino acids that you
ingest go to the muscle I mean a lot
less of all this kind of work has been
done after in Jun training but it seems
to follow all the same principles it's
just a different sets of proteins that
are being expressed to a greater or
lesser extent after endurance versus
resistance exercise but they're also
responsive to nutrition and so they
should also be responsive to blood flow
to the muscle so I think it doesn't make
a difference for endurance or resistance
type exercise the studies that I've seen
is they either show no effect and if
they show effect it's studies where
that's not inurance exercise it's
actually high-intensity intermittent
type exercise where there's also a huge
damage effect and inflammation and I
think there it can have a benefit to Dum
dampen that down and then acute
performance afterwards is less
compromised but that's something else
than optimizing your training
reconditioning right yeah so you're
you're talking more at the elite level
where they're really like the rowers or
the you know these these Runners that
are that are you know they're incurring
more damage on their muscle um so if the
the cold water immersion is causing Vaso
constriction it's it's preventing the
muscle profusion right um the question
is how long does that last so the
norepinephrine is the hormone that is
regulating that as you know and that
does go up even after just you know 2
minutes in cold so the question then
goes well uh well how long does that
last so like you know is it an 8 hour
response that do you think it would be 8
hours that it's it's going to be
affecting I have no idea um in this case
I mean temperature at least skin
temperature was already quite normal
quite fast but the response over over
over 6 hours was still visible so uh I
mean these studies are hard to do
because then if you actually would do it
this way I would like to take a biopsy
at 2 4 6 8 12 14 16 18 22 and 24 hours
and of course nobody wants to
participate not even the older subjects
are now studies are going to sign up for
that or at the very least it would be
interesting to do a cold water immersion
where it's not immediately after
resistance training it's you know oh
yeah I mean that's that would be great
six eight hours maybe the next day if we
would do that two-e intervention study
where you actually have the three
sessions and the and the the no the six
training sessions and you have the six
scholing sessions and then you have the
six cooling sessions on the days that
you don't have the training so you have
three treatments um six training
sessions with cooling six sessions with
cooling on the other day and only the
six six training without the cooling um
yeah that's a huge study but I mean I'll
be interested to see what comes out
after two weeks yeah I guess I guess the
question is is that you
know if you if you're if you're doing
resistance training and you wait 6 to
eight hours after that
training will that cold water immersion
blunt your gains you said maybe a little
bit maybe not um it will likely be less
if you do it on the the opposite day so
so waiting just on a recovery day is is
what you think is best okay but I mean
you I mean that's the whole thing we
always focus on muscle but everything
has to be optimal I mean it's the same
as oh you can take creatine and you you
get stronger legs and you have have a
higher workload but then if you're a
high jumper and you gain 1.2 kilos
simply also by most of it actually water
retention you it's not going to improve
your high jumping so it's more than only
muscle of course of course yeah
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