PA Talks 02 – Mario Carpo (The Second Digital Turn)

Summary

In this interview, Mario discusses the profound impact of computer-aided design and artificial intelligence on architecture. He explains how the traditional separation between design and fabrication has collapsed, allowing architects to become makers of notations directly translated into physical objects. The rise of AI and 3D printing enables unprecedented levels of detail and customization in design. Mario emphasizes the importance of a balanced architectural education, combining studio practice with classroom and lab learning, and predicts that while AI will be a valuable tool, it won't replace the need for human architects anytime soon.

Takeaways

• 🏗️ The advent of computer-aided design (CAD) has fundamentally changed architecture by collapsing the separation between design and fabrication. Architects now use the same tools for thinking, drawing, and making physical objects.
• 🖌️ Traditionally, architects were agents of notation, creating drawings and technical notations for builders to construct buildings. With CAD, architects can now also be agents of fabrication.
• 🤖 The rise of artificial intelligence (AI) in architecture is shifting the role of architects from problem solvers to decision-makers, as AI can handle complex decision-making processes traditionally reserved for humans.
• 🔍 The 'second digital turn' in architecture refers to the shift towards using digital tools like 3D printing and AI, which enable more precise and granular design and fabrication at a microscopic level.
• 🔢 The concept of 'discretization' in design, or the use of discrete components like voxels, is becoming more prevalent due to the capabilities of modern manufacturing technologies like 3D printing.
• 📦 Discrete manufacturing processes like 3D printing allow for the creation of complex, high-resolution structures that would be impractical for humans to design and fabricate manually.
• 🏙️ While digital tools can solve some architectural problems, they are not relevant to all aspects of architecture. There are still many problems that are non-computational and rely on human intuition, taste, and personal choices.
• 💼 The economic feasibility of using AI and robotics in architecture is limited by the cost of these technologies compared to the relatively low cost of architectural labor, suggesting that AI will not replace architects in the near future.
• 🌟 The idea of 'starchitects' or celebrity architects is seen as an anomaly and not a goal for the next generation of architects, emphasizing the importance of focusing on good design rather than fame.
• 📚 Mario recommends that young architects should focus on a well-rounded education, combining studio work, classroom learning, and laboratory experiments to become well-trained professionals capable of competing in the global market.

Q & A

How has computer-aided design (CAD) changed the way architects think about design space, building, and the relationship between human and environment?

CAD has fundamentally changed architecture by collapsing the separation between design and making. Traditionally, architects were agents of notation, creating drawings that builders would then translate into physical structures. With CAD, the same digital file can be used to produce both an image and the physical object itself, making architects both thinkers and makers.

What is the significance of the shift from traditional architectural practices to computer-aided design in terms of architectural profession?

The shift signifies the end of the separation between design and making. Architects are now able to notate, represent, and fabricate at the same time, which was not possible in the traditional practice where architects made drawings and builders made the physical objects.

How does the rise of artificial intelligence (AI) in architecture affect the role of architects?

AI is increasingly being used for decision-making in architecture, which traditionally was a human task. This can lead to more informed and reasonable decisions, but it also raises questions about the extent to which AI will replace human architects in the future.

What is the 'second digital turn' in architecture, and how does it relate to the use of AI and computational tools?

The 'second digital turn' refers to the further integration of digital technologies into architecture, including AI. It involves the use of computational tools not just for design and making, but also for solving complex problems and optimizing solutions, potentially leading to more efficient and precise architectural designs.

How does the use of 3D printing and additive manufacturing technologies influence the style of architecture, particularly in terms of 'oxidization' or 'discretization'?

3D printing and additive manufacturing technologies have led to a style of architecture characterized by discretization, where structures are made up of individual, distinct pieces or 'voxels'. This contrasts with the smooth, subtractive style of the 90s, which was influenced by CNC milling machines.

What are the implications of the shift towards a 'discrete logic of manufacturing' in architecture?

The discrete logic of manufacturing, where each component is individually fabricated, can become an aesthetic attribute. Architects may choose to display the technical logic of the construction process in the final design, showcasing the individual components that make up the structure.

How can the use of computational tools and AI in architecture lead to more efficient and sustainable designs?

Computational tools and AI can optimize designs by calculating and fabricating structures at a microscopic level of resolution. This can lead to significant savings in building materials and energy, as only the necessary material is used where it is needed.

What are the potential drawbacks of mass customization in architecture, and when might it be unnecessary?

While mass customization allows for the production of unique items at no additional cost, it may not always be necessary or desirable. For example, creating one million different glasses when a standard design works for everyone could be seen as excessive and wasteful.

How does the speaker view the future role of architects in the context of advancing digital technologies?

The speaker believes that architects should not become complacent and should continue to learn and adapt to new technologies. However, he also emphasizes that architects should maintain their human-centric approach and not rely solely on technology for decision-making.

What advice does the speaker have for young architects regarding their education and professional development?

The speaker advises young architects to engage in systematic learning beyond just studio work. He emphasizes the importance of a balanced education that includes design, scholarship, and scientific experimentation, suggesting that a well-rounded education is crucial for success in the field.

How does the speaker perceive the current state of architectural education and the job market for architects?

The speaker acknowledges that the number of jobs available to architects is influenced by market fluctuations and is not solely dependent on the number of graduates produced by architecture schools. He also suggests that some architectural education programs may not be adequately preparing students for the competitive international market.

Outlines

00:00

🖥️ The Impact of CAD on Architectural Design

The speaker discusses the transformative effect of computer-aided design (CAD) on architecture, moving from a tradition of architects as notators to agents of both notation and fabrication. The advent of computers has collapsed the separation between design and making, as the same digital file can now serve as both a blueprint and a direct template for physical construction through 3D printing or milling machines. This shift challenges the Renaissance tradition where architects were thinkers, not makers, and suggests that with computational tools, architects can now represent, notate, and fabricate simultaneously. The speaker also touches on the emerging role of artificial intelligence in decision-making within architectural practice.

05:03

🔍 The Discretization Trend in Design

This paragraph delves into the concept of discretization in design, comparing it to the process of oxidation. The speaker describes how the shift from subtractive manufacturing methods, like CNC milling, to additive ones, like 3D printing, has influenced the aesthetic of design. The additive process, which builds objects from small, discrete units, has led to a style where the individual components or 'chunks' are visibly distinct, reflecting the technical process of fabrication. This is contrasted with the smooth, continuous forms produced by traditional milling machines. The speaker also discusses the implications of this for structural engineering, where computational tools can now allow for the design of components with a level of detail and customization that was previously impractical.

10:06

🛠️ The Role of Big Data and Voxel-based Design

The speaker explores the application of big data and voxel-based design in architecture, questioning the necessity and appropriateness of such detailed customization in the field. They discuss the potential for mass customization, where each item can be unique without incurring additional costs, and contrast this with the economies of scale traditionally associated with standardization. The speaker also addresses the practicality of designing at a microscopic level of resolution, which can lead to significant material savings, and the types of architectural problems for which these methods may or may not be suitable solutions.

15:07

🤖 The Future of AI in Architecture

In this paragraph, the speaker contemplates the potential impact of artificial intelligence on the future of architecture. They argue that while AI can be a powerful tool for problem-solving, particularly in quantifiable areas, it is unlikely to replace architects due to the subjective and intuitive aspects of architectural design. The speaker also highlights the economic considerations, suggesting that the high cost of AI technology compared to the relatively low cost of architectural labor makes it an unlikely candidate for replacement in the industry.

20:10

👨‍🏫 Advice for Young Architects

The speaker offers advice to young architects, emphasizing the importance of a well-rounded education that includes studio work, classroom learning, and laboratory experimentation. They caution against an overemphasis on the studio as the sole method of training, arguing that a combination of design, scholarship, and scientific exploration is necessary for a comprehensive architectural education. The speaker also addresses the fluctuating job market for architects, noting that it is subject to the cycles of the real estate industry and not necessarily a reflection of the quality of architectural education.

25:11

🏛️ Reflections on Architectural Education and the Profession

In the final paragraph, the speaker reflects on the state of architectural education and the profession. They express concern about models of education that fail to prepare architects for the international job market and criticize the notion of 'starchitects' as an historical anomaly rather than a goal for aspiring architects. The speaker advocates for a balanced approach to architectural training, combining creativity, scholarship, and experimentation, and encourages young architects to focus on developing a broad set of skills rather than seeking fame.

Keywords

💡Computer-Aided Design (CAD)

Computer-Aided Design, often abbreviated as CAD, refers to the use of computer technology for design and modeling activities. In the context of the video, CAD has fundamentally changed how architects approach design, space, and the relationship between human and environment. It has allowed architects to move from being notators of buildings to being creators of notations that can be directly used for physical fabrication, as mentioned when discussing the shift from traditional pencil drawings to digital files that can be used for both representation and construction.

💡Parametric Architecture

Parametric architecture is a style of design that relies on the use of algorithms and parameters to define the form and function of a design. The video discusses how this style was prevalent in the 90s due to the use of CNC milling machines, which followed smooth lines and subtractive technology. However, with the advent of 3D printing and additive manufacturing, the focus has shifted towards a more discrete, voxel-based approach, which is a departure from the smooth, parametric style.

💡Second Digital Turn

The term 'Second Digital Turn' is used in the video to describe a new phase in digital technology's impact on architecture. It refers to the evolution from traditional design methods to a more integrated approach where design, representation, and fabrication are all handled through digital means. This shift is exemplified by the use of AI and advanced manufacturing technologies that allow for greater precision and customization in architectural design.

💡Discretization

Discretization in the video refers to the process of breaking down complex structures into smaller, discrete units or components. This concept is central to the discussion on how digital fabrication technologies, like 3D printing, have influenced architectural design. It allows for the creation of structures made up of individual, precisely fabricated pieces, which can be seen as a contrast to the continuous, smooth forms produced by traditional subtractive manufacturing methods.

💡Voxel

A voxel is a three-dimensional pixel, used in 3D modeling and printing to represent a volume element. In the video, the concept of voxels is used to illustrate how modern digital fabrication technologies can create complex structures by assembling numerous small, individual units. This approach allows for unprecedented levels of detail and customization in architectural design, as each voxel can be designed and fabricated to have unique properties.

💡Artificial Intelligence (AI)

Artificial Intelligence is a branch of computer science that aims to create machines capable of intelligent behavior. In the video, AI is discussed in relation to its growing role in architectural design, particularly in decision-making and problem-solving. It is noted that AI can handle complex tasks that were traditionally reserved for human architects, but it is also emphasized that AI is a tool that serves human intentions, rather than replacing the human element in design.

💡Fabrication

Fabrication in the context of the video refers to the physical construction or making of architectural elements. The script highlights the blurring of lines between design and fabrication due to digital technologies, where the same digital file can be used to both visualize a design and produce the actual physical object. This change has significant implications for the role of architects, shifting from being agents of notation to being agents of both notation and fabrication.

💡Notation

Notation in architecture traditionally refers to the act of making drawings and technical plans that guide the construction of buildings. The video discusses how the advent of digital technology has transformed the role of architects from being makers of drawings to makers of notations that can be directly translated into physical structures. This change underscores the integration of design and construction processes in the digital age.

💡Mass Customization

Mass customization is the ability to produce goods and services tailored to individual customer needs with near mass production efficiency. In the video, this concept is explored in relation to architectural design, where digital technologies enable the creation of unique, customized designs without the traditional costs associated with customization. This raises questions about the necessity and value of such customization in architecture.

💡Structural Engineering

Structural engineering is a sub-discipline of civil engineering focused on the design and analysis of structures to ensure they can safely support and resist various loads. The video mentions how digital technologies and AI are changing structural engineering by allowing for the design of structures at a microscopic level of resolution, potentially leading to more efficient and precise use of materials.

💡Architectural Profession

The architectural profession is the practice of designing buildings and the space within them. The video discusses the evolution of this profession in the digital age, highlighting the shift from traditional roles to more integrated roles that involve both design and fabrication. It also touches on the potential impact of AI on the profession, suggesting that while AI can assist in certain aspects, the human element in architecture remains essential.

Highlights

Mario discusses the impact of computer-aided design on the architectural profession, emphasizing the shift from architects as notators to makers of notations for direct physical fabrication.

The interview explores the historical transition from traditional architectural practices to the integration of digital tools, leading to a convergence of design and making.

Mario explains how the advent of computers has imploded the separation between design and fabrication, allowing the same file to be used for both image production and object creation.

The interview delves into the role of artificial intelligence in architecture, suggesting a future where AI could assist in decision-making processes traditionally reserved for architects.

Mario introduces the concept of the 'second digital turn' and the rise of a new aesthetic characterized by the use of discrete components in design, influenced by additive manufacturing technologies.

The discussion highlights the shift from a parametric style of the 90s to the current trend of voxel-based design, reflecting the capabilities of modern fabrication tools.

Mario describes the potential for mass customization in architecture, where computational tools allow for the design of unique elements without additional cost.

The interview addresses the question of whether the new digital tools can solve all architectural problems, with Mario asserting that they are part of a broader toolkit.

Mario argues against the notion of a single 'starchitect' dominating the field, advocating for a diverse range of architects contributing to the profession.

The conversation touches on the economic feasibility of using AI and robotics in architecture, suggesting that the cost of these technologies may not yet justify their widespread adoption.

Mario emphasizes the importance of a balanced architectural education, including studio work, classroom learning, and laboratory experimentation.

The interview suggests that the role of architects in the future will not be replaced by AI, but rather augmented by computational tools that serve their creative intentions.

Mario provides advice to young architects, urging them to engage in a systematic learning process that extends beyond the studio environment.

The discussion critiques current architectural education models, suggesting that some are not adequately preparing students for the competitive international market.

Mario reflects on the fluctuating job market for architects, noting that the availability of work is not solely dependent on the number of graduates produced by schools.

The interview concludes with Mario's perspective on the future of architecture, highlighting the importance of embracing new technologies while maintaining a human-centered approach.

Transcripts

[Music]

hello dear Mario welcome to gid

foundation thanks for accepting our

interview request

this interview is organized by GED

Foundation and parametric architecture

magazine

we invited you to ask a couple of

questions around your latest book and

your latest theories about the second

digital term according to your study of

the history of architecture how do you

think this computer-aided design has

changed the way architects think about

the design space building and the

relationship between human and

environment that's a 1 million dollar

question which will take 1 million words

but in short the first fundamental

change is that architecture as we know

it or as we knew it was an act of

notation architects in the Western you

know Renaissance tradition to not make

buildings they make drawings of building

notations which we give to the builders

builders make the building we don't cut

bricks we don't like we don't cut stones

we don't just make drawings the pencil

in the humanistic tradition is the tool

of our work we have ideas with the

pencil we translate these ideas into

drawings with drawings of technical

notations with even builders but we'll

just make the building we don't because

we don't do that just make drawings this

is very of the architect which was

invented in the

which was good until a few years ago

when computers came and with computers

with separation between design and

making is imploded doesn't exist anymore

because when you have something on the

screen the same file can be used to

produce an image and to produce the

object itself the same file on the

screen is an image you put it on a 3d

printer or another milling machine and

you make the object so the notation is

at that point the representation and the

fabrication at the same time whereas

traditionally we are agents of notation

not agents of fabrication with

separation between thinkers and makers

in the Renaissance tradition we are

fingers not makers we think we do not

make makers make and we are not allowed

to think but with computers the same

tool is a tool for thinking for drawing

and for making and so this separation

which was the foundation of

architectural profession the reason why

we made drawings and not physical

objects that's not good anymore because

theoretically using computational tool

we could and we can notate represent and

fabricate at the same time now this is

the field in practice you can 3d print a

teapot you cannot be print a skyscraper

so if you build a bigger object you

still need all the you know degrees and

layers of technical separation but with

robotics even this degrees of separation

are little by little being reduced so

this is the next step but anyway that

was the first important thing we used to

be makers of drawing and now we are

makers of notations which can be used

immediately and directly for physical

fabrication this is what computers do

well computer lead computers today are

increasingly choice of artificial

intelligence and so that's another story

because we can solve problem of decision

making which traditionally we kept for

ourselves but increasingly they can be

devolved to an artificial intelligence

which is increase

be capable of making reasonable informed

decision in our state when we delegate

so phase one inherent to architectural

profession the end of a separation

between design and making phase two with

the rise of artificial intelligence but

this is not just what we are attached to

the profession for every human activity

increasingly the machines are no longer

tools for making we're becoming

increasingly tool for thinking so but

this is not going to happen overnight

that's a trend

what's a training course in your new

book you have talked about the second

digital turn and the oxidation or

maximization style in design how would

you define these terms yes in a simple

word yes box emulation of oxidization we

could even call it discrete ISM the

style of discretization so the idea but

mainly little bits and pieces chunks

pixel boxes whatever they are notated

calculated and fabricated individually

and they show as units so you can see

all the little chunks which compose the

physical object in to some extent this

is a consequence of the shift in the use

of the tools for computer-aided

fabrication because in the 90s the

driving the most common machine for

computer aided making or manufacturing

was a CNC milling machine which was a

milling machine which cars would and

takes away subtractive technology taking

matter out and they did it mostly by

following smooth lines which created a

spline a smooth style of the 90s which

we still call parametric see now we were

eyes of 3d printing a 3d printer print

each machine from subtractive to

additive technologies instead of taking

matter out matter is fabricated almost

out of nothing almost out of thin air

but it is printed out by little chunks

we

jeongsuk all voxels the way the machine

works it makes a box and then another

and then another

each box it even individually fabricated

now you could theoretically merge all

the bottle you need in a single smooth

uniform surface you can do it it's

possible but as it always and or often

happens the logic of the tool fits back

on to the mentality of the operator and

so if you are using a machine that makes

everything by little discrete piece you

may want at some point to show the

technical logical using in the object

you're making and so since the machine

by its own technical logic and nature

makes everything by little chunks at

some point it becomes reasonable and

logic to show the chunks and so and so

the discrete logic of manufacturing

becomes an aesthetic attribute because

instead of hiding it you actually

display it and so increasingly if you

use machine for almost artificial

intelligence you know it marries a piece

of something which is made of fourth

gazillion voxels meaning big number of

words yeah if we had to work that way we

couldn't because as humans we cannot

well be good but it would take forever

that's not right notate calculate and

fabricate 4 gazillion balls one by one

it's not a practical proposal because

you start today you will never end but a

machine can notate calculate and

fabricate four trillion voxels in ten

minutes

so this logic of discrete components

which we humans would never use because

it would take too long for machines it

is quite usable because machines can in

fact machines are very good computers

are making very simple operation very

many times it's what they do

arithmetics but I pursue per fast speed

and so the idea we could in a you know

in a game for a practical joke calculate

a box which is made of 27 boxes it's

possible it's a

charge game but if we want to make a

building which you've made of or an

object which is even a tip which make

the 4 gazillion voxels is we couldn't do

it computers can do it so this is a

shift between our way of thinking our

way of making and the way computers

think and make we tend to simplify

objects to make them understandable for

our you know limited capacity of

arithmetic or calculations computers

don't have those limits because we are

done but we are very fast and so they

can show the logic well they can produce

pieces of solid matter which are made of

a huge well call it excessive resolution

a huge degree of resolution it's not

excessive for them it's excessive for us

because we cannot count those voxels

computers can and so this shows it's a

style it's an aesthetic but in

engineering it is a big change because

if you think what a structural engineer

typically does well our limit up to the

degree of resolution to which we can

push our calculation of a physical

object think of a beam a

reinforced-concrete we simplify it we do

not micro design each little each little

chunk of it we could but it would take

forever computer can to limit push the

resolution of the structural object to

an almost microscopic level of

resolution and they can calculate and in

fact fabricate a beam of structural

piece where each microscopic component

it's different from all others which

means you know in a beam of reinforced

concrete we admit but concrete is the

same all over even in fact it isn't but

we have to assume for calculating it but

concrete is the same all over and the

steel the iron was still on you call it

beam rod it's best still rod it is in

fact always the same excited we tweak it

so we can take into account but here it

is a 45 degree yet is so we

admit of small variation in the steel

rod which is merged inside this is as

far as we can go beyond that it becomes

too complicated for our traditional

computational instrument because we have

to calculate everything by hand whereas

using computational intelligence and 3d

printing you can print out a beam where

each voxel is different from all apps

not accidentally but by design so you

can calculate this voxel here to be

stronger than the box next to it and the

one next to it perhaps you don't need a

box where you leave it empty and so you

can must customize the structural

component to a microscopic level of

resolution so instead of designing the

structure paradox it could be manual the

statute is already the same you design

what happens inside the structure which

is what typically we couldn't do so for

engineering this is a big change because

you can design a level of granularity

which would allow a degree of precision

in the calculation which means saving a

lot of building material for example

because where the material is not needed

you will not use it whereas

traditionally we could never even if we

could calculate it we could not notate

it in a way which was precise enough for

an artisan or even you know a fabricator

to execute it because you cannot expect

master builder to build the beam with

the precision of a serger or a dentist

if we're so precise it would be a

dentist not a Master Mason

but today with 3d printing we can print

a beam with the degree of resolution

which a dentist with the printer a

dental implant yes this can save a lot

of well work work and material resources

you know steel is expensive shouldn't

waste

what is the need of architecture today

to use big data and walks elation style

and design for what kind of architecture

problems is this method a solution for

all the problems to which it provides

solutions well I promise to which it

doesn't provide any solution and then if

you don't even try with today's

architectures I think I don't know maybe

using this kind of ornaments or very too

much detail is there any need for that

exactly exactly these are all tool of

mass customization the possibility to

micro design variations at no additional

cost but the question is do we need that

or when do we need it for example using

these technologies you could imagine but

you know this glass is probably cheap

because it is made somewhere with a mold

where the same mode is used to reproduce

1 billion identical glasses

standardization mass production

economies of scale the more identical

glasses you make the cheaper each class

will be that's the logic of Industrial

Revolution using computational tool you

could theoretically in practice we are

not yet there but in theory you could

make 1 million of these glasses all

different from every other one

1 million all different are the same

unit cost so variations would not entail

any supplemental cost is possible

assuming it's possible the question is

why on earth would you need 1 million

different glasses if this glass is good

is good for me as it is good for you as

it is good for everyone else probably we

don't need to make one get zillion

different glasses one of the founder of

inventor of the digital turn in the

nineties burn our cash as an example he

always lectures with a big pen a plastic

big pain in his hand of great product of

French consumer design and this argument

is I use I could use a 3d printer to

make this big pen customized

specifically for me

and you could do a different one

specifically for you and each one would

basket mask customize a big ballpoint

pen specific to her or him but why would

we need to do it since this big pen is

perfect and it works just fine for every

user on earth so there are cases when

mastica customization is an pleasant

solve any problem there are cases where

it solves be problems because there are

cases where one size does not fit all

a big pen it's one size which fits more

or less everyone but for example if you

need a dental implant probably one I

need is different from the one you need

it's like fingerprint but surgery is

done some of these technologies were

developed for surgical implants before

we were use at a scale of you know

engineering because if you need a knee

replacement or a hip replacement it has

to be custom-made and so using 3d

scanning and 3d printing you can

customize it more precisely and cheaper

than using traditional mechanical tools

but same for dentistry of course we have

more money than we do in the building

and construction industry because a knee

replacement is more expensive and you

know peace-offering sport concrete but

yeah thank you how good second digital

turn and voxel asian-style will change

the future of architecture for better

I'm not certain that they can but it's

one of the tools but we have at our

disposal we must try to use them because

there are there is evidence that they

solve some problems we will not solve

every problem but these tools are out

there why should we not try to make

something out of them I am certain that

many architectural problems are

completely irrelevant to computation and

computation is completely irrelevant to

many architectural questions as we were

saying yesterday in the conference in

the lecture some architectural problems

are computable when computers can help

some are non computable and when

computers cannot help but where

quantification

part of again computers are a big help

because we had to optimize the solution

has to save time money resources

renewable material minimize energy waste

etc etc all things we care about thank

you but of course architecture is way

more than that yes technological and

cultural changes and expansion of the

tools for design what do you see as the

role of Architects in future could a I

be the future are no it's not going to

happen anywhere anytime soon so this is

a debate between the designers and

architects it's gonna design for us what

I would what it's gonna do AI what is AI

well we don't know what is a I for the

time being is the tool we use but it is

not a tool but is going to replace us

for many reason but basically AI is a

problem-solving device it is good for

solving the problem of a certain degree

of complexity architecture is such a

complex problem

each architectural project has levels of

complexity but we cannot quantify

because we cannot even rationalize for

better for worse and then don't say it

is good but it is inevitable much of

what happens in the decision-making

process of an architectural design is

based on intuition feeling taste

ideology personal choices an

idiosyncratic opinions it's not

something that you can prove as in a

mathematical demonstration and in that

area of subjectivity computational tool

are perfectly irrelevant then as we said

there are many areas of pure technical

rules you know quantification where

computers are a big help but again we

shouldn't confuse instrument and

intentions computers are instruments

they are help to implementing our

intentions but intentionality is ours

instrumentality is very very our

instrument in the service of our

intentions but we don't provide

intentions intentions are ours we have

intentions computer instrument

intentionality is a Spencer mentality is

them then I have a second argument why I

don't think what artificial intelligence

going to break a promise anytime soon

artificial intelligence sticks so

expensive and architectural a belief so

cheap

but it doesn't make any sense to use an

expensive machine to replace cheap human

labor yes so you say you say robots are

not gonna kill us more expensive an

architect for the tiny well robots are

going to replace expensive profession

profession with a huge amount of added

value yes and so economic logic if there

is a surgeon whose work is paid

$1,000,000 per hour there is an

incentive to replace it with a good

computer or a good robotic hand you know

how much architectural labor cost $15

per hour so there is no incentive to

replace any of us with a computer which

is going to be way more expensive than

we are so don't worry it's an instrument

we should learn to use because it solves

many problem yeah that's already - yeah

it's a total instrument the instruments

is there intentions is here in your

guess or predictions who are the next

generation of architects who will dive

into this world and become starchitects

in other words who is the next Frank

Gehry of late 90s I hope no one becomes

a starchitect in this field no no no I

don't like there's a good profession we

do a good job you don't need to become a

stirrer

there will be good architects there will

be better architects and there will be

architects in between the stardom of

architectural profession in my opinion

is an accident of history it happens not

a precise point in time I do not know

why it happened particularly around the

turn of the millennium I mean luckily he

was a famous architect but it didn't

have in the thirties nor during the

sixties the level of stardom but some of

our friends have today

never happened before it's unprecedented

so in my opinion it's a perk it won't it

won't last

I mean I would argue that we'll have a

good reputation record busy leave the

good life

people invited him around the world and

they travel first-class and they made

some money particularly the second part

of his life that's ok you don't need to

be as well it was a start at a human

scale yes was a starchitect it made a

decent life of you know a successful

professional yeah thanks for your time

in closing may I ask what advice would

you like to share with young architects

to do a lot of work and particularly to

devote a lot of work to a systematic

learning in classroom of topics which

you do not learn in a studio because

what I see is many of our students and

colleagues the studio is becoming the

only pedagogical site for the training

of an architect everything else is

ornament that was the Bazar system a

system of a School of Fine Arts which

was eliminating the 20th century because

it proved its ineffectiveness we

shouldn't go back to that because it

already failed the 20 century great

invention was a school of architecture

where the architect is trained in

different formats one is to do based one

is classroom based and one is lab based

we must train as designer in a studio as

scholar in a classroom a scientist in a

lab we need these three pillars to be

well trained only one is not enough

that's my my ideal school as these three

pillars the studio the classroom and the

lab the studio for designing and making

creative stuff the classroom for

learning boring stuff in the stew and

the lab for making daring experiments we

need these three forms we work on these

three

modes only one it may be good for some

starchitect but for most of us it would

not work we need all three but about

today's architecture programs in

universities do you have any comment so

is it working or not

except Bartlett or a do you think it is

they are on the wrong way or on the

right way because we have a lot of

graduated architects now and they're

complaining there's no work there's no

do you think it's because of

architecture programs and universities

is there any problem number of jobs that

are available to architects does not

depend on the number of artists we

trained in the School of Architecture

real estate booms and busts all the time

and we are at the mercy of a fluctuation

of the markets there are times when

there are not enough architects on the

market and times were you know newly

graduated architects no but for five

years there will be no jobs when I came

onto the market myself there were no

jobs but feeling things saying we cannot

we cannot do much about that

concerning the level of training we

provide in schools yes there are

different models there are different

approaches some are more successful some

including the example I just provided

are in my opinion doomed because we do

not train professionals which are apt to

compete on an international marketplace

so there are winners and losers there

are some schools that are winning some

school but are losing and not going to

make any nice but don't think but some

of the big names are the winners some of

the big names I'm thinking of are

actually losers and some little schools

which have no star reputation are doing

excellent training so not everything

that looks like gold is gold something

like that it's an Italian problem so

don't be misled by the shimmering

shining appearances do you Mario thanks

for your time and we do really

appreciate the ADA foundation for

sponsoring and organizing this

Thanks thank you

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you