Interview with Rebecca Grappo International & TCK Kids
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful webinar, Rebecca Grappo, an expert in advising Third Culture Kids (TCKs) and international students, shares her experiences and discusses the unique challenges these students face when applying to colleges. She emphasizes the importance of understanding cultural authenticity, the complexities of fitting into a new educational environment, and the significance of a compelling college essay that reflects their diverse backgrounds and global perspectives.
Takeaways
- π Rebecca Grappo is a specialist in working with Third Culture Kids (TCKs) and international students, drawing from her own international experiences and work with the State Department.
- π« Rebecca's background includes living in 10 different countries and working in American international schools, which has naturally influenced her career path in educational consulting.
- π TCKs are individuals who have spent significant developmental years living in a culture outside of their parents' home culture, often feeling a sense of belonging with other TCKs rather than a single culture.
- ποΈ Rebecca emphasizes the importance of understanding that TCKs and international students may not automatically feel at home on a U.S. college campus, even if they hold an American passport.
- π« When advising TCK students, Rebecca suggests looking for campuses that are outward-focused, international, and have a sizable number of international students.
- ποΈ The concept of 'cultural authenticity' is discussed, highlighting that TCKs and international students bring a diversity of thought and perspective to a college environment.
- π Rebecca advises that TCKs and international students need to find common ground with their peers on campus, focusing on shared interests and activities rather than solely their unique backgrounds.
- π In terms of college essays, Rebecca recommends that students tell a story that exemplifies their global understanding and cultural experiences, rather than simply listing them.
- βοΈ For international students, Rebecca warns against over-editing essays, as it should reflect the student's actual level of English proficiency to maintain authenticity.
- π Rebecca encourages counselors to continue learning and networking with other professionals to better serve international students and TCKs, acknowledging the complexity and evolving nature of global education.
Q & A
What is the purpose of the webinar series?
-The purpose of the webinar series is to talk to professionals in college counseling as part of a UCLA class, focusing on discussing the experiences and insights of guests like Rebecca Grappo, who specializes in working with TCKs and international students.
Who is Rebecca Grappo and what is her area of expertise?
-Rebecca Grappo is a specialist and expert in working with Third Culture Kids (TCKs) and international students. She has had an international life, lived in 10 different countries, and worked in American international schools and for the State Department as an education and youth officer.
What is the significance of Rebecca's background in her current work?
-Rebecca's international background and experience working with foreign service families and expat Americans naturally led her to establish a private practice focused on guiding international students and TCKs with college applications, boarding schools, and specialty schools.
What is a TCK and how is it different from an international student?
-A TCK is a person who has spent significant developmental years living in a culture outside of their parents' home culture, often feeling a sense of belonging to multiple cultures but without true ownership in any. An international student might also be a TCK, but not all TCKs are international students, as the term TCK refers specifically to their cross-cultural upbringing.
Why is it important for college counselors to understand the background of TCKs and international students?
-Understanding the background of TCKs and international students is crucial because it helps counselors to better advise them on college applications and campus life, taking into account their unique experiences, cultural identities, and the challenges they may face in adjusting to a new educational environment.
What are some characteristics that TCK students might look for in a college campus?
-TCK students often seek campuses that are outward-focused and have a sizable number of international students, as they may feel more at home in an environment that reflects the diversity and international nature they are accustomed to.
How can TCK students portray their cultural authenticity in their college essays?
-TCK students can portray their cultural authenticity by sharing personal stories that exemplify their experiences and perspectives, showcasing their unique viewpoints and understanding of diversity without listing or flaunting their background.
What challenges might TCK students face when adjusting to college in the United States?
-TCK students may face challenges such as feeling out of place despite holding an American passport, adjusting to a new country and culture that may not feel comfortable, and finding a sense of belonging among their peers.
Why is it important for counselors to find common ground with students from diverse backgrounds?
-Finding common ground is important because it helps students feel connected and accepted, allowing them to share their unique stories and experiences without feeling like they are trying to stand out in an inauthentic way.
What advice does Rebecca give to counselors who are new to working with international students?
-Rebecca advises new counselors to seek professional development opportunities, join networking groups, and refer cases to specialists when necessary to ensure they are providing the best guidance and not making mistakes that could affect students' futures.
What is the significance of the name change to IACAC and what does it reflect about the field of college counseling?
-The name change to IACAC (International Association of College Admissions Counselors) reflects the growing global nature of college counseling, indicating that the field is no longer just about American college consulting but includes consultants working globally and counselors from international schools sending students worldwide.
How can counselors ensure that the essays of international students are authentic and not over-edited?
-Counselors should be careful not to over-edit essays to maintain consistency with the students' language proficiency levels, as demonstrated by their standardized test scores and letters of recommendation. The goal is to present an authentic piece of writing that represents the student's own voice and abilities.
What role can storytelling play in the college essays of international and TCK students?
-Storytelling can play a crucial role in making the essays of international and TCK students memorable and impactful. By sharing a story that illustrates their experiences and viewpoints, students can convey their message more effectively and leave a lasting impression on the admissions officers.
Outlines
π Introduction to TCKs and International Students
The speaker, Rebecca Grappo, is introduced as an expert in college counseling for TCKs (Third Culture Kids) and international students. She shares her background, having lived in 10 different countries and worked in American international schools and the State Department. Rebecca emphasizes her unique approach to advising students on college applications, boarding schools, and specialty schools, focusing on their global nomadic lifestyle and the challenges they face in transitioning to new environments.
π« Understanding TCKs and International Students' Challenges
Rebecca explains the difference between TCKs and international students, highlighting that an international student may also be a TCK. TCKs are individuals who have spent significant developmental years in a culture outside their parents' home culture, often feeling a sense of belonging to multiple cultures but lacking true ownership in any. The discussion includes the complexities of advising TCKs on college choices, emphasizing the importance of finding campuses with an international focus and a sizable number of international students to foster a sense of belonging.
π Cultural Authenticity and the Role of Counselors
The conversation delves into the concept of cultural authenticity, particularly in the context of TCKs and international students. Rebecca discusses the importance of expanding the definition of diversity to include diverse thought and perspectives that TCKs bring to educational settings. She also touches on the challenges students face in defining their own identity and the need for counselors to guide them in portraying their cultural authenticity authentically, without appearing to flaunt their background.
π Navigating the Application Process for TCKs
Rebecca addresses the complexities of the college application process for TCKs, especially for those whose first language is not English. She advises against over-editing essays to maintain consistency with students' language proficiency levels. The focus is on helping students find and tell a story that exemplifies their global understanding and cultural experiences, making their applications memorable and unique. Rebecca also stresses the importance of counselors continuing their education to better serve the needs of international students.
βοΈ Crafting Essays with Authenticity and Impact
In the final paragraph, Rebecca provides advice on writing college essays for TCKs and international students. She emphasizes the importance of storytelling, where students should illustrate their points through memorable experiences rather than listing them. Rebecca also cautions against submitting essays that are too polished, which might not align with the students' demonstrated language proficiency. The goal is to present an authentic and personal narrative that stands out to admissions officers.
Mindmap
Keywords
π‘Webinar
π‘TCK (Third Culture Kid)
π‘International Student
π‘Cultural Authenticity
π‘Transition
π‘Resiliency
π‘College Counseling
π‘Expat
π‘Educational Consulting
π‘Cultural Diversity
π‘Admissions Essay
Highlights
Rebecca Grappo is a specialist in working with TCKs (Third Culture Kids) and international students.
Rebecca has lived in 10 different countries and worked in American international schools, influencing her work with TCKs.
She worked for the State Department as an Education and Youth Officer, further exposing her to global nomadic lifestyles.
Rebecca's private practice focuses on educational consulting for expat Americans and international students.
TCKs are individuals who have spent significant developmental years in a culture outside their parents' home culture.
TCKs often feel a sense of belonging with other people who have had similar international backgrounds.
International students might also be TCKs, but they are not necessarily immigrants.
TCKs may feel a connection to multiple cultures but often struggle with a sense of true ownership or belonging.
Rebecca advises TCK students to seek campuses that are outward-focused and have a sizable number of international students.
TCKs face the challenge of adjusting to a new country and culture, in addition to the typical college transition.
Cultural authenticity is a complex concept for TCKs, involving a diversity of thought and perspectives.
Rebecca emphasizes the importance of expanding the definition of diversity to include TCKs and international students.
TCKs often grapple with forming their own identity and connecting with others in a new environment.
Rebecca advises students to find commonalities with peers on campus, rather than relying solely on their TCK background.
TCKs need to be aware that their global experiences may not be as unique in the admissions process as they think.
Counselors should be cautious and refer cases they are not familiar with to professionals with more experience in international education.
Professional organizations and conferences offer valuable resources for counselors to improve their skills in working with international students.
Rebecca recommends that students tell a story in their essays to illustrate their points and stand out to admissions officers.
Essays should be consistent with a student's language proficiency and academic achievements to avoid suspicion of over-editing.
Rebecca emphasizes the importance of students having a unique story to tell in their applications.
Transcripts
all right
hello everyone and welcome to
our series of webinars or actually
interviews that
i'm doing as part of our ucla class to
talk to professionals in
college counseling with me today i have
rebecca grappo
she is a specialist and an expert in
working with
tck their culture kids and international
students
and becky thank you for being here today
um if you could thank you for inviting
me cindy
i know many of our students are very
interested in knowing
different people's backgrounds and how
they got into the work they do
so if you could share a little bit about
who you are and why you do what you do
that would be
very beneficial okay
well i've had a very international life
myself
having lived overseas many times in 10
different countries
and i've also worked in american
international schools so
because of all the international
background that i have it's natural that
i've been able to bring this into
the work that i do i also worked for the
state department for
several years where i was the education
and youth officer and i worked with
foreign service families moving around
the world so that gave me even more
exposure to
kids coming and going from around the
world
so when i started my private practice i
was still
living that globally nomadic lifestyle
myself my husband was her diplomat
and i established my practice thinking
there must be a lot of expat americans
and international students who could use
some guidance
not only with college applications but
also with boarding schools and specialty
schools
we do all kinds of educational
consulting in our practice
so that's how i got started and in
addition to doing college advising
we i do a lot of public speaking and
writing about the issues
of transition and resiliency and moving
kids around the world
so that ties right into what we're doing
here as we talk about
their culture kids and international
students
that's and that brings up a really good
point about
transition and how do we prepare and
what our role is as counselors and
that's one of the things that
we're talking about in this class so can
you explain what a tck
student is and what the difference is
between being a tck
and an international student
well first of all an international
student might also be a tck
so a tck is a is a person who has spent
a significant amount of their
developmental years living in a country
or a culture outside of their parents
home culture
they have ownership in many of the
cultures in which they live
or they have a sense of belonging to
many people in many of the cultures in
which they live but true
ownership and none and they find their
sense of belonging usually in connection
with other people who have had a similar
background
so that's a paraphrase on the official
definition
so let's take that into an example so
let's say that we're
working with ex-pat americans where
they've raised their children
overseas for a significant amount of
time well that could be one year
five years ten years it just depends on
what's significant for a particular
student and they're living outside of
their country
and then eventually but they don't have
ownership they're not
immigrants so let's say an american for
example might have been living in
amsterdam
they will have absorbed many of the
characteristics of dutch culture if
they've gone to an international school
they've absorbed many of the
characteristics of all the other
nationalities
of students who are in that school they
feel most connected when they're in that
international type of environment
and that's when they're going to find
that's where they're going to find their
sense of belonging
so when we think about advising that
kind of student
when that student comes to the united
states it's assumed that their american
passport holder we cannot assume
that they are automatically going to
feel at home on
any college campus around the u.s or
just because they're in the united
states doesn't make them
feel internally like they're at home
so when we come up with the list for
that kind of student
usually they're asking for a campus to
be more
outward focused more international to
have as a
sizable number of international students
on campus
i get the question all the time where
are the best schools for tcks and the
answer is
it really depends there's a certain
go-to list
that a lot of kids tend to want to apply
to from international schools overseas
but that doesn't make them the only
schools that are good for tcks
and there's a lot more that can be
discussed about that particular topic
in a nutshell now if we also talk about
international students so for example i
work with a lot of kids
coming out of the middle east because we
spent many years there
and especially let's say dubai or abu
dhabi it could be that it's a
lebanese student for example that has
grown up in dubai
where the parents are lebanese but
they've never actually lived there so
their tck is living in dubai
and they're going to come to the us as
an international student
so again all these complexities about
answering the question where do you fit
in where do you belong where is home
where are you going to be comfortable
what kind of environment are you going
to be comfortable in
and fitting in with the with the culture
on an american campus so what i hear
from a lot of tcks
is that going to college can be a really
big challenge for them
so it's the first time away from home
just like all the other kids getting
used to college just like all the other
kids
but they also in many cases are
adjusting to a country and a culture
that might appear to be
their own but it's not and it doesn't
feel comfortable like that
so there are other issues to helping
them to feel like they're at home and
adjusting
on their college campus
one of the things one of the articles
that i had students read is about
um was a definition of diversity
and the author roxanne says
coins the fraser uses the phrase um
authentic
or cultural authenticity so as you think
about that
for the students that you work with how
do they
portray or communicate their cultural
authenticity
if they're identifying with all with
very many different cultures
wow that's a great question and i wish
we could talk about that for an
hour
i think that's a really great question
um
lots of different ways that i could
answer it i think that
um authenticity i think a lot of these
students are
searching and questioning to answer that
question for themselves
during this experience um
i think that
there's a diversity of thought just like
there can be diversity of race and
ethnic backgrounds religious backgrounds
etc
and one of the things that i really
think is important
is that we expand our definition of
diversity especially when we're talking
about diversifying a campus
and that what a tck or an international
student can bring
to the classroom and to the dorm into
the activities and everything else is
just a different perspective
a different view of life and i think
that's really important that's diversity
of thought
even if on the outside they look like
everybody else
i also think that in coming up with
their own identity
and again this could be a really long
involved topic but in coming up with
their own identity
a lot of students that i'm working with
are thinking about these things deeply
maybe the first time they really think
about this is in their college essay
which
we should talk about quickly um but also
just
you know what does this experience mean
and how are they going to connect with
other people
how are they going to share their
stories which have a different setting
and be accepted by their peers without
it look like they're trying to show off
or
be fancy and so we see a lot of students
who don't want to talk about their
background
or flaunt their background um but it's
all about
you know finding that connection with
other students on campus
i often advise my students you're going
to have to find other things that you
have in common with the students that
you meet on a new campus
like maybe you all are going to be
involved in the same community service
project with the same
um political action group or the
international club but you're going to
have to find new things that you have in
common
because it's not going to be so
prevalent to find
other people who are going to be just
like you and maybe in a way that's the
point
so the other point that i'd like to make
about this is that when
kids talk about fit and finding a place
where they belong i get it
i understand why they want that but i
also warn them if you want to be special
if you want to use your background in a
way that's really going to stand out and
make you very attractive
in the admissions process if you apply
to the same schools
where everybody else is applying they've
already seen it
and read it before and it's not very
impressive you know it's impressive but
it's not something that's unique and
different
so if you really want to stand out and
be
in a place where people are going to
maybe offer you a special incentive to
enroll
you have to accept the fact that you're
going to be in the minority
flip side of that is that you're going
to be in the minority and maybe you're
not going to find as many people that
you can relate to
you can identify with but just to give
an example tests read 700
applications a year from tcks so if you
write that i'm now a citizen of the
world because i've lived around the
world
they've read that essay before thousands
of times
and that's not going to be enough just
because you
were raised overseas is not going to be
enough to get across that admissions
threshold
so that kind of we went a couple
different directions with that answer
but
you know it's all important it is and it
and that
points out to the fact that it's not
just it's not cut and dried
and every student situation is going to
be different and that's where
what our role as counselors and that's
one of the things we covered last week
is is varies and we're building that
knowledge and expertise so that
we know and and can help our students
and the families
but when do you you know at some point
it's going to go beyond
what i as a regular counselor work with
um and so at one point would you
recommend
that counselors especially if you're at
a
high school or even if you're at an
international school all your students
are
falling into one of these
characteristics so what do you do when
you
don't know the answers
well first that's a complicated question
too so i think that
you know on the one hand we want to
learn if there's something we don't know
we want to learn
but on the other hand if you're not used
to working with international students
there are
all kinds of twists and turns that can
take place
i was teaching the course at uc irvine
american college consulting for the
international student
i'm the course is still being offered
i'm no longer teaching it um there are
two other great instructors for that now
but one of the chapters that i did with
my
adult students was land mines in the
application process
and so just trying to point out what
some of those landmines
are as you're working with an
international student that are
going to be very different from working
with
their let's say i'm going to use north
american now because we're just talking
about american college con
uh colleges at the moment
i if i could say one thing is this is
getting bigger and bigger and bigger all
the time
this is getting more and more global all
the time and getting more complicated
all the time so
just for this conversation and keep it
focused on american
so when we're talking about american
college admissions there are all kinds
of landmines that could
come into play and so i would really
advise somebody if you're
new to this and you don't really know
that much about it
you should refer this out within
our professional organizations we're
working very very
hard to raise the professional standards
of people who are doing work
internationally
to recognize this as a specialty that
takes years of experience to acquire and
even those of us
who have many years of experience have
our own small
little networking groups that we meet
together over skype and in email groups
and we
balance cases off of each other because
even after years of experience there are
lots of things that
are perplexing to us and
we need each other in order to make sure
that we don't drop the ball
and have it affect a student so
yes learn if you happen to be a member
by eca the
global consulting committee has been
working very hard on an international
roadmap
that gives a lot of professional
development opportunities
laid out for counselors
consultants to become even better at
what they do when working with
international students
the sessions that are offered either at
iacac
or the you know the international ac or
if the heca or ieca conferences that are
devoted to international students
nakak etc these are places where you can
go to learn
more about working with international
students
as well as tcks so we want to be really
careful we've got a child's life in our
hands so we have to be careful
absolutely and thanks for mentioning all
those different organizations
we've i've posted a document that has
links but
i'll need to add the oacac because
that's a key one especially for the
international perspective well actually
just this month and
in january the name was changed to iacac
and voted on by the membership to become
the international
association of college admissions
counselors there's a new logo
new website new name and the reason they
did that was to reflect the fact that
this is changing that this is not
just about american college consulting
anymore
or american college counseling but we've
got
consultants who are working globally
that we've got
international school counselors who are
sending kids around the world
and that it's not just the united states
or even north america anymore
and that's what i was referring to
earlier in our conversation this whole
thing is getting bigger and bigger and
bigger
it definitely definitely well thank you
for that because we'll um
we'll definitely have people look that
up and you mentioned something about the
essay so in closing
let's go ahead and have you cover a
little bit about
what your recommendations are in terms
of essays for
students a couple of things number one
is that
depending on what kind of education the
student has had they may or may not be
used to writing an essay so i find that
often i'm
taking on the role of a writing teacher
in addition to just helping them
brainstorm essay topics so
really helping them to develop that
essay into something that is going to be
an example of good writing
the second thing is that if you're
working with international students and
english is not their first language you
don't want to over edit
because they're also going to be
presenting theoretically
a standardized test score or a toefl
score
the um you know english is a foreign
language
or an eyelets and the writing
has to be consistent and the letters of
recommendation from their english
teacher it all has to be consistent with
their level of writing
so if we as as consultants
counselors over edit an essay and it's
too polished
and it doesn't match the level of
achievement that they've had in their
academic life
then that's going to be suspect so we
don't want it to be too perfect
and yet we're there to help them so you
know this
is something again we would spend a
whole week talking about this whole
topic
the other thing is that i really really
encourage
students to look for a story that
exemplifies the point that they're
trying to make
so for example if somebody wants to show
their global understanding
about a particular you know that i've
grown up around the world and
therefore i'm very attuned to different
cultures and peoples around the world
and i really love diversity
instead of writing i've grown up around
the world and i really love diversity in
cultures and people because i've had all
these great opportunities
instead if they could tell a story of
one thing that happened
and the story illustrates all those
things without them having to
state them and list them and the story
will be memorable
and some of the stories that my
international students in tc case have
have told have been so incredible that i
can still remember
that student that year and the story
that they told in their essay
and where they ended up going to school
um you know stories are memorable
and that's what we want to happen you
know i tell them
don't forget you know that whoever is
reading your admission your
admissions file i had one admissions um
officer answer my email at 10 o'clock at
night it was midnight on her timezone
i'm like what are you doing answering my
email just like i'm reading files at
home
so that just goes to show you that if
you
if you're going to be presenting your
file to an admissions officer remember
it might be midnight
they might be really tired and you do
the same old sleeper essay that they've
read a thousand times it's not going to
make an impression
right oh great great sage words of
advice and i think that
um is something that working with all
our students is helping them to sell
their stories but
for our as you say the international tck
students they've never had to do that
before at
the same level and keep preserving it
goes back to that cultural authenticity
you know just their own authenticity and
and preserving their second language
perspective and just their their
perspective
is what brings and makes their
applications authentic
and personal and um and helping them to
understand
that they do have a story to tell that's
so key
and that's what makes it so fun
absolutely absolutely
thank you so much um for your time if
people have questions or anything what
should i have them do
um they can certainly send me an email
rebecca
rng international dot com
okay great thank you very much have a
great day all right thanks for the
invitation sydney
you're very welcome cindy thank you
all right okay all right thanks bye
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