SCIENCE COLLAPSED — Krishnamurti Left Bohm in Silence

Summary

This transcript captures the profound dialogue between Jiddu Krishnamurti, the radical spiritual teacher, and David Bohm, the theoretical physicist. Their conversations explore the nature of human conflict, thought, consciousness, and transformation. Through mutual respect and deep inquiry, they questioned the limitations of knowledge and the possibility of psychological transformation. Their discussions, which blended science and inner exploration, emphasized the need for a revolution of the mind to overcome fragmentation. Their shared insight—seeing without distortion and exploring beyond conventional thought—continues to inspire a new kind of inquiry, focusing on clarity, attention, and relationship over ideology and belief.

Takeaways

• 😀 Krishnamurti and Bohm's dialogue was a profound exploration of the nature of thought and consciousness, merging philosophy and science.
• 😀 Both thinkers recognized that the fragmentation of thought in science, society, and the human psyche was a central issue that caused suffering.
• 😀 Krishnamurti believed that thought itself was the problem, while Bohm saw that the observer and the observed might be interconnected, similar to quantum physics.
• 😀 The distinction between knowledge and intelligence was a central theme; Krishnamurti suggested that true intelligence is not bound to time and memory.
• 😀 Their conversations were not debates but collaborative investigations, emphasizing exploration over conclusion.
• 😀 Krishnamurti challenged the idea that knowledge could bring psychological transformation, as knowledge is always tied to the past.
• 😀 Bohm saw insight as immeasurable and crucial, aligning it with Krishnamurti’s idea that insight could dissolve psychological patterns instantly.
• 😀 The idea of death as the ending of psychological continuity, not just physical life, was a key concept in their dialogues.
• 😀 Both thinkers were concerned with humanity’s future, warning that without inward transformation, technological and scientific progress could lead to chaos.
• 😀 Their relationship embodied mutual observation and respect, transcending traditional roles of teacher and student or scientist and mystic, creating a space for deep inquiry.

Q & A

What was the primary focus of the dialogues between Jiddu Krishnamurti and David Bohm?

The primary focus of their dialogues was the exploration of thought, consciousness, and human conflict. They investigated how fragmentation in thought contributes to suffering and whether a radical transformation of consciousness is possible.

How did Krishnamurti and Bohm differ in their approaches to knowledge?

Krishnamurti believed that knowledge is always rooted in the past and cannot lead to psychological transformation, while Bohm, coming from a scientific background, initially valued knowledge but eventually recognized that insight, not accumulated knowledge, could bring about deeper understanding and transformation.

What did Krishnamurti mean by 'thought is the problem itself'?

Krishnamurti argued that thought, as a response of memory, is always limited. Since it is based on the past, it cannot solve the problems it has created. Instead, the transformation of consciousness requires seeing beyond the limitations of thought.

How did Bohm relate Krishnamurti's ideas to his own work in quantum mechanics?

Bohm saw a parallel between Krishnamurti’s view that the observer is not separate from the observed and his own work in quantum mechanics, where observation affects the observed. This idea led him to consider that perhaps the thinker is not separate from thought, opening new avenues for both scientific and spiritual inquiry.

What is the distinction between knowledge and intelligence according to Krishnamurti?

For Krishnamurti, knowledge is a mechanical accumulation of past experiences, whereas intelligence is the immediate, direct perception of truth. Intelligence is not dependent on memory or time, but rather on deep, attentive awareness.

Why did Bohm consider insight important for science?

Bohm recognized that while science is about measurement, insight is immeasurable and provides a different kind of understanding. He believed that this quality of insight could benefit science by offering a more holistic and unified perspective, similar to the way Krishnamurti viewed it.

What is meant by 'the fragmentation of thought' and how does it affect human life?

The fragmentation of thought refers to the way thought divides reality into separate parts, such as self and other, me and you, or what should be and what is. This fragmentation leads to conflict, both in individuals and society, as it creates division where there should be unity.

How did Krishnamurti view death in relation to psychological continuity?

Krishnamurti viewed death not just as the end of physical life, but as the ending of psychological continuity—such as memories, attachments, and opinions. He challenged Bohm to consider whether it was possible to 'die' to these psychological aspects every day to break free from the patterns of thought that bind us.

What was Krishnamurti's stance on methods, systems, or practices in achieving transformation?

Krishnamurti believed that no method, system, or practice could bring about psychological transformation. Instead, only direct awareness of the movement of thought and the ending of the self could lead to true change.

How did Krishnamurti and Bohm view the future of humanity?

Both Krishnamurti and Bohm were concerned that without an inward transformation of consciousness, technological and scientific advancements would only accelerate humanity's destruction. Krishnamurti emphasized the urgency of ending the psychological structure of conflict, warning that the future of humanity depended on this transformation.