BetaKit Live: Emerging tech’s impact on financial innovation

Summary

In this insightful discussion, Douglas Saltus, Chief of Bikit, interviews Daryl Mullen from MasterCard to explore the impact of emerging technologies on financial services. They delve into how innovations at the intersection of commerce are revolutionizing payments, banking, and financial management. Mullen highlights MasterCard's evolution from a traditional credit card company to a tech giant, emphasizing its role in data analytics, cybersecurity, and real-time connectivity. The conversation also touches on AI's potential to enhance customer experiences and underlying infrastructure, the importance of trust and security in new technologies, and the transformative effects of open banking and quantum computing on the financial landscape.

Takeaways

• 🚀 MasterCard is evolving from a traditional credit card company into a tech company that is over 50 years old, focusing on the digitization of payments and financial services.
• 🛠️ The company views itself as a network that plays a crucial role in the financial ecosystem, providing a level playing field for businesses of all sizes and enabling value for all stakeholders.
• 🤖 Artificial Intelligence (AI) is seen as a transformative capability rather than a product itself, similar to electricity, which will power various applications and use cases in the financial industry.
• 🔒 Trust and security are central to MasterCard's approach to new technologies, ensuring that as they adopt and integrate AI and other emerging tech, they maintain a high level of reliability and safety.
• 📈 MasterCard is focused on three primary areas: data analytics, cybersecurity, and real-time connectivity and authentication, which are seen as waves of technological advancement.
• 💡 AI is being used internally at MasterCard to improve efficiency, such as reducing extensive documentation into more digestible formats for customer support and product teams.
• 🌐 Open banking is presented as an infrastructure that allows for more connected finance, potentially revolutionizing cash flow management, supply chain, and expense management for businesses.
• 👁️ Biometric authentication is becoming more mainstream, with MasterCard working on democratizing access to these technologies, making them easy to implement for businesses of all sizes.
• 🔑 Privacy is a significant concern as more personal data is collected and stored by various entities. MasterCard emphasizes the importance of security and proper data handling to maintain consumer trust.
• 💡 Quantum computing is identified as an emerging area of focus for MasterCard, with investments being made to protect against future threats posed by this technology, including the potential for breaking current encryption methods.

Q & A

What is the significance of the emerging technologies discussed in the transcript for the financial industry?

The emerging technologies discussed, such as AI, open banking, and quantum computing, are significant as they have the potential to radically alter various aspects of the financial industry, including payments, banking, and financial services management, delivery, and security.

How does MasterCard view its role in the broader financial services ecosystem?

MasterCard views itself as a critical player in the financial services ecosystem, providing a wide range of capabilities from traditional credit card services to new technologies like crypto and open banking. It aims to enable value for all types of businesses and protect all parties involved in transactions.

What is the analogy used by Daryl Mullen to describe MasterCard's position in the market?

Daryl Mullen uses the analogy of a family to describe MasterCard's position. He likens the traditional card networks to the parents and the new capabilities like crypto and open banking to the children, with MasterCard guiding and nurturing their growth while maintaining its established presence.

How does MasterCard approach the integration of new technologies like AI into its operations?

MasterCard integrates new technologies like AI by first focusing on internal efficiency and understanding the technology deeply before bringing it to market. It emphasizes the importance of data quality and the application of AI to improve existing systems and processes within the company.

What are the three primary areas that MasterCard focuses on in terms of technology?

The three primary areas that MasterCard focuses on are data analytics, cybersecurity, and real-time connectivity and authentication. These areas are seen as critical infrastructure for the new technologies that MasterCard is exploring and implementing.

How does MasterCard ensure that new technologies are trustworthy and secure before they are widely adopted?

MasterCard ensures trust and security by not being the first to bring new technologies to market. Instead, it focuses on understanding and applying the technology internally, creating standards, and emphasizing governance to build wide-scale trust over time.

What is the role of AI in enhancing customer experience and infrastructure within MasterCard's operations?

AI plays a significant role in enhancing customer experience by personalizing interactions and making processes more efficient. In terms of infrastructure, AI is used to improve internal systems, such as by streamlining access to extensive documentation and support materials for various products.

What is the importance of biometric authentication in the context of MasterCard's services?

Biometric authentication is important as it provides an additional layer of security and convenience for users. It helps in creating a seamless and secure payment experience, reducing the friction in transactions, and combating fraud more effectively.

How does MasterCard address the issue of trust and privacy in the context of open banking and connected finance?

MasterCard addresses trust and privacy by advocating for clear standards, transparency, and governance in open banking practices. It emphasizes the need for frameworks that protect user data and ensure that information is only accessed with explicit user consent for specific purposes.

What are some of the potential benefits of open banking and connected finance for small businesses and individuals?

Open banking and connected finance can provide small businesses and individuals with streamlined processes for cash flow management, supply chain improvements, and expense management. They can also enable easier access to services like virtual cards for secure and direct transactions with suppliers.

How does MasterCard view the impact of quantum computing on its operations and the broader financial industry?

MasterCard views quantum computing as a significant technological advancement that will impact cybersecurity. The company is investing in quantum computing to bulletproof existing networks and transaction management, as well as to create new opportunities for the future.

Outlines

00:00

🚀 Introduction to Transformative Tech and MasterCard's Role

The video begins with Douglas Saltus, Chief of Bikit, introducing the topic of emerging technologies that are set to revolutionize various industries. He emphasizes the importance of staying updated with these changes, especially in commerce, and highlights the intersection of technology with financial services. To delve deeper into the subject, he invites Daryl Mullen from MasterCard to discuss the impact of new tech on financial services. Daryl provides an overview of MasterCard's evolution from a traditional credit card company to a tech company that has been around for 50 years. He talks about the company's broad product portfolio and its role in the financial services ecosystem, touching on traditional networks, credit, debit, prepaid cards, and the digitization of payments.

05:00

🛠️ MasterCard's Three Waves of Technological Advancement

Daryl Mullen outlines MasterCard's focus on three primary technological advancements: data analytics, cybersecurity, and real-time connectivity and authentication. He discusses how these areas are crucial for the successful implementation of new technologies and how they contribute to making life simpler for consumers. The conversation also touches on the stages of acceptance for new technologies, drawing parallels between AI and previous technological shifts like the internet, mobile, and cloud computing. Daryl likens AI to electricity, highlighting its potential to power various applications and capabilities.

10:01

🔒 Trust, Governance, and Security in Technology Adoption

The discussion shifts to the importance of trust in technology adoption, with Daryl explaining that trust does not move at the same pace as technological advancements. He stresses the role of governance, security, and compliance in building widespread trust. Daryl also shares insights into MasterCard's approach to new technologies, emphasizing that they do not rush to market with the latest tech but instead focus on understanding and integrating it into their systems to ensure efficiency and trustworthiness. The conversation also covers the role of data in AI and how MasterCard leverages its vast amounts of data to improve internal processes and customer experiences.

15:04

👥 Navigating the Adoption Curve and the Impact of AI

Daryl Mullen and Douglas Saltus explore the adoption curve of new technologies, discussing how people often overestimate short-term changes while underestimating long-term impacts. They touch on the role of AI in cybersecurity and the importance of protecting against fraud and other malicious activities. Daryl shares anecdotes about how MasterCard is testing and implementing AI internally to improve efficiency and customer support, emphasizing the gradual and cautious approach MasterCard takes towards integrating new technologies.

20:06

🏦 Modernizing Loyalty and the Role of AI in Customer Relationships

The conversation moves to the topic of loyalty and how AI can modernize the relationship between merchants and customers. Daryl discusses the transition from transactional to relationship-based loyalty and the importance of data in creating personalized customer experiences. He also addresses the challenges faced by new immigrants and businesses in establishing credit and banking relationships in a new country, suggesting that open banking and connected finance could provide solutions to these issues.

25:07

📲 The Intersection of Technology and Fraud Prevention

Daryl and Douglas discuss the dark side of technological advancements, particularly the rise of fraud and scams. They talk about the measures MasterCard takes to protect customers, such as monitoring unusual account activities and implementing biometric authentication. The conversation also covers the importance of privacy and the ethical considerations surrounding the use of personal data in combating fraud.

30:09

🌐 Open Banking and the Future of Financial Services

The speakers delve into the concept of open banking, discussing its potential to transform financial services by enabling secure data sharing between banks and other service providers. Daryl explains that open banking is not a product but an infrastructure that can facilitate a range of applications, making financial services more accessible and convenient for consumers and businesses alike.

35:13

🔗 The Potential of Open Banking for Small Businesses and Newcomers

Daryl highlights the benefits of open banking for small businesses and newcomers, such as streamlining cash flow management, supply chain optimization, and expense management. He provides examples of how open banking can enable virtual cards for specific suppliers, thus enhancing security and efficiency. The conversation underscores the importance of trust, transparency, and the right regulatory frameworks for the successful adoption of open banking.

40:15

🌟 MasterCard's Emerging Tech Trends and the Impact of Quantum Computing

In the final part of the conversation, Daryl mentions MasterCard's emerging tech trends report, which explores various technologies, including AI, quantum computing, and their implications for industries like travel and health. He discusses the potential of quantum computing to disrupt cybersecurity and the steps MasterCard is taking to prepare for this advancement, hinting at the possibility of a future where quantum-resistant technologies play a central role in financial services.

45:15

📚 Resources for Staying Informed on Tech Trends and Innovations

The video concludes with a reference to MasterCard's resources for those interested in learning more about technology trends and their impact on business and society. Daryl suggests visiting the MasterCard Canada website for reports on future tech trends and AI, which provide thought leadership and provoke further discussion on the implications of emerging technologies.

Keywords

💡Commerce

Commerce refers to the exchange of goods and services, especially on a large scale. It is integral to the video's theme as it discusses how emerging technologies are set to revolutionize various industries, including commerce, by impacting how payments, banking, and financial services are managed and safeguarded.

💡MasterCard

MasterCard is a global payment technology company that offers a wide range of financial products and services. In the context of the video, MasterCard is highlighted as a key player in the financial services industry, adapting to new technologies and innovations to maintain its position at the forefront of the commerce ecosystem.

💡Financial Services

Financial services encompass a broad array of businesses that manage money, including banks, credit card companies, insurance, and investment firms. The video discusses how technologies like AI, open banking, and real-time connectivity are reshaping the delivery and security of financial services, with MasterCard being a significant contributor to these changes.

💡Emerging Technologies

Emerging technologies refer to innovative tools, platforms, or systems that are relatively new to the market and have the potential to disrupt traditional methods or industries. The video emphasizes the impact of these technologies on commerce and financial services, with a focus on how they are managed and safeguarded by companies like MasterCard.

💡AI (Artificial Intelligence)

AI refers to the simulation of human intelligence in machines that are programmed to think like humans and mimic their actions. In the video, AI is discussed as a transformative technology that will impact customer experience and the underlying infrastructure of financial platforms, with MasterCard exploring its application in enhancing services and security.

💡Open Banking

Open banking is a system where banks share customer data with third-party developers and financial institutions through secure application programming interfaces (APIs). The video mentions open banking as a key infrastructure that will enable new financial services and products, making banking more accessible and convenient for consumers and businesses alike.

💡Cybersecurity

Cybersecurity involves the protection of internet-connected systems, including hardware, software, and data, from theft, damage, or unauthorized access. The video highlights the importance of cybersecurity in safeguarding financial transactions and data, especially as new technologies like AI and open banking are integrated into financial services.

💡Tokenization

Tokenization is the process of substituting sensitive data with non-sensitive placeholders called tokens, which can be used without exposing the original data. In the context of the video, tokenization is part of the digitization of payments, enhancing security and making transactions more efficient.

💡Loyalty Programs

Loyalty programs are marketing strategies designed to encourage repeat business by awarding customers for continued patronage. The video discusses the modernization of loyalty programs through technology, suggesting a shift from transactional to relationship-based loyalty, which can be facilitated by AI and data analytics.

💡Biometrics

Biometrics refers to the measurement and analysis of unique biological characteristics, such as fingerprints or facial recognition, for identification and authentication purposes. The video mentions biometrics as a technology that is becoming more mainstream in financial services, offering a secure and convenient method for user authentication.

💡Quantum Computing

Quantum computing is an advanced field that uses the principles of quantum mechanics to process information in ways that traditional computers cannot. The video alludes to the potential impact of quantum computing on cybersecurity, suggesting that it will play a significant role in future-proofing financial transactions and networks.

Highlights

Introduction to the discussion on emerging technologies and their impact on financial services with Daryl Mullen from MasterCard.

MasterCard's evolution from a traditional credit card company to a tech company with a wide range of payment solutions.

The importance of data, cybersecurity, and real-time connectivity and authentication as key areas of focus for MasterCard.

AI's role in transforming customer experience and underlying infrastructure in financial services.

The comparison of AI to electricity, highlighting its potential as a foundational technology for various applications.

The necessity of trust, security, and compliance in the adoption of new technologies in financial services.

MasterCard's approach to evaluating and integrating new technologies with a focus on trust and capability standardization.

The potential of AI in enhancing internal efficiency within companies, such as streamlining documentation and customer support.

The adoption curve of technology and the tendency of people to overestimate short-term changes and underestimate long-term impacts.

The role of MasterCard in providing critical infrastructure for the economy and the importance of scaling technology.

Discussion on the dark side of technology, such as deep fakes, and the ongoing arms race in cybersecurity.

The impact of AI on customer relationship management and loyalty programs in the financial sector.

The challenges and opportunities of open banking and its potential to enable new financial services and products.

The significance of real-time payments and the modernization of payment infrastructure for businesses and consumers.

MasterCard's investment in quantum computing and its implications for cybersecurity and future transaction management.

Final thoughts on the importance of standards and governance in the development and adoption of new financial technologies.

Transcripts

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hello and welcome to another bit live I

am Douglas saltus edin chief of bikit

and uh we stand on the precipice of a

bunch of new tech that promises to

radically alter a variety of Industries

and if businesses want to keep up with

how things are changing they're going to

need to pay attention to this Tech uh

now interestingly enough a lot of this

seems to be intersecting in the world of

Commerce uh impacting how payments

banking financial services are managed

delivered and safeguarded I can't think

of a better company to talk to about

this stuff than MasterCard which is why

I'm very happy to have Daryl MC Mullen

to talk about emerging Tech's impact on

Financial Services Daryl thank you so

much for doing this man great to be here

yeah okay we've got so much to talk

about um and I I think we can we can go

real long on this but I want to keep it

tight and engaging for uh the people

watching this and I think maybe the best

place to start is with MasterCard

because uh I don't know if you want to

describe you wear a lot of hats there's

a lot of consumer backend infrastructure

touch points yeah so could you talk to

me how you feel MasterCard finds itself

in like the broader set of financial

services yeah that's a it's a great way

to start um you know mastercard's been a

Brand around a long time people know and

and think of it you know as a

traditional credit card if you will

MasterCard turned 50 um that's a

50-year-old tech company is like ancient

yes um I'm so I feel aning some days too

but when I think of where you are in

your life at 50 you're kind of that

sandwich generation where you hopefully

if you're lucky you still have your

parents around you may have some kids

it's kind of like the way Master Card is

if I think of like the parents it's like

the traditional card networks the credit

credit Network the debit Network prepaid

cards been around for a long time uh the

eldest child the eldest child if you

will yeah I think of them almost as the

parents they're still alive and kicking

and doing really well you know you can

tons of business cases one of the AR

arguably one of the world's greatest

Moes uh around things like that from a

technology perspective um but that's

kind of like where Our Roots were over

the last 10 to 20 years it's been about

the electronification of payments

digitization of payments

tokenization uh e-commerce crossborder

payments all of that the just

traditional money movement and that and

the role that that plays

overall um and then other days I feel

like I have this like classroom of kids

of of new capabil and whether that be

crypto whether that be open banking

whether that be installments buy now pay

later I can go down the list of probably

25 other different uh things I think in

total our our product portfolio is

something like 687 products uh you can

imagine there's this this whole spectrum

of type of capabilities you have and

when you have kids you know you have

hopes and dreams and you think you know

what they're going to be like yeah but

you don't know yet and they all want to

be firefighters right now totally and

that's kind of how I feel about those

Technologies too right so and we can

talk about that whether it be AI whether

that be open banking um we have hopes

and dreams and we have some ideas and

where they can go um but it's early days

and some of that as well U but I think

we can learn from the lessons that we've

had on the last 20 years on the

electronification of payments and then

of course just more broadly what it

means to be a network and the role of a

network in any ecosystem you play this

this kind of Level Playing Field whether

it's a small business or a large

corporate or a government or a financial

institution or a fintech startup we

intersect with all of them and we try

and enable value for all of them uh and

protect everyone as part of those

transactions okay um so I don't know if

that helps kind of like Su up average

week so and and then would it be fair to

say like within your role specifically

at MasterCard it's like your job to keep

track of the family

like Grandpa down to the new Toler like

how

how yeah I mean everyone has a road map

right every everything is um whether

you're generating Revenue whether you're

making sure you're delivering the right

value um I think probably if you if you

were to bucket uh what are the three

primary things that MasterCard does um

because all that stuff I talked about

were

products if I kind of leveled up there's

probably like three waves one is data

analytics

mhm one is cyber

security uh and one is around realtime

connectivity and

authentication those are a bit buzzword

but I actually I could probably put all

of those things into those three buckets

as to what's the role that MasterCard

plays to have all this new technology

actually work for people yeah okay so

this is this is where we we shift from

like the consumer facing engagement side

that everyday people are familiar with

and you're working with technology and

data partners and whoever and doing your

own work to actually

provide to make the platform a platform

or to connect the things that then

become a platform yeah yeah exactly I

mean you know if you were to tell the

average

consumer um yeah you should be part of

the token authentication framework

they'll be like huh what the hell is

that but but they love the idea of being

I love that band yeah but they love the

idea of being able to just tap their

phone be able to pay for things that's

what they care about and how does that

make their life simpler in some ways so

keeping this in mind then uh I think if

we're going to have a conversation about

anything emerging Tech we should

probably talk about the technology that

is being hyped right now to change all

of society and and every industry

included within that um but I wanted I

want to keep this narrow beam focused

within a uh a Commerce framework so when

we're talking about

AI how do you think it's going to

impact let's let's start customer

experience but then also then underlying

infrastructure that feeds that platform

that Iceberg we were talking about

before but let's let's start with the

customer experience uh of

AI sure um I think even before we go

into that let's actually just talk about

kind of Technology waves a little bit

right because um I already exposed my

age so it's obviously my not my first

rodeo in terms of these things and it's

kind of funny how the cycle goes where

the similar language around when

something new and big comes along and

how it's going to change everyone's

lives you know that was the information

superhighway which was the internet and

then it was mobile and all those changes

that mobile will have to people's lives

and then it was cloud and all the

changes that the cloud would have and

now it's AI um the funny thing is that

there's almost kind of like stages or

degrees of acceptance with any of these

new technologies I find it kind of

interesting that initially they all

think of this these Technologies as

products and they're not actually

products right they're actually they're

capabilities or their infrastructure

which may become critical infrastructure

in some ways but it wasn't like let's

use all example of all of those right

the internet it wasn't the internet

itself that was the interesting product

it was the applications on top the

Googles the e-commerce in general right

page ex I was waiting for you to say but

I'll bring it up right now and mobile it

was you know applications like uh GPS

which led to Uber which uh and things

like social media and it wasn't until

like what third or fourth generation the

iilm that you had the ability to do a

selfie and all all that sort of stuff

that came around Cloud everyone talked

about for a while a while but it wasn't

until you saw things like Netflix and

Spotify and how they transformed

Industries and and how you interact and

intersect in your daily lives AI is kind

of going to be the same way right it's

AI is not a product uh it people early

days they're thinking of it that way and

the initial you know Tire kicking or

building some end user interfaces like a

chat GPT for people to start you know

getting familiar and comfortable with it

in any way I think of AI more is

like

electricity right if you if you actually

what are we uh 2024 there you think 100

years ago 1924 electricity was like the

AI right and it was the same thing it

was like wild west people were probably

getting electrocuted there's probably a

lot of house fires there was a lot of

things a lot of experimentation going on

a lot of Standards had to come out there

was any new technologies there's the

good side and the bad side like

literally standardizing like how

electricity happens right like we we

shouldn't walk past that idea of of not

just like uh forget like uh UK versus

North American Outlets it's like what

voltage are we setting the stuff at yeah

like you know the your uh fuse box in

your house and all that sort of there's

there's standards there's

governance uh and and why those stages

are needed obviously is to build WID

scale trust the reality is trust doesn't

move at the same Pace as technology

right every week There's a hot new thing

on technology but do people trust it at

the same Pace no it takes time takes

time and then all those elements of

governance and security and

compliance uh play rout and I bring that

up because I do feel like that that

actually is core to mastercard's DNA

right it's not about What new

technologies MasterCard is bringing to

the table it's how do we make these

Technologies usable enough at a wide

scale that people can trust them okay so

you can go anywhere in the world and

know when you see the kind of Master

Guard brand behind something you have a

different level of trust and security

that I can interact with that Merchant

or I can do that transaction I I get

that so if I were to care that for it

it's like if for for Mastercard or for

you to deem a technology at worthy of

the product level to introduce I guess

either side on the on the back end or

the consumer divide it's got to pass

some sort of like trust filter and I'm

assuming that's like capability

standardization all of the actual like

heavily regulated Financial Services

stuff that we could talk about like by

country that we'll we'll just put off

for another conversation but You' uh is

this a a very historically grounded way

of you saying I have no idea what these

products are going to be yet because

we're still evaluating the technology as

they become products um no I think

actually I'll take it a step inward a

little bit where any new technology that

comes to the market we never bring it to

Market first we actually figure out

because we you shouldn't assume that you

as any

organization actually it's not part of

your DNA yet you weren't born on this

new

capability um

we've been doing AI for like a decade um

you know and early stages of you know

Diagnostic and predictive capabilities

so if you you could say of the millions

of AI companies that are out there uh

today um what what's the one common

denominator they all have in their level

of quality or

capability is the quality or capability

of the data they have access to okay

right and is that's this is AI is data

electricity kind of thing a little bit

right and um so if there's one thing

that that MasterCard is not shy of is is

data right if you know when you have um

you know just on the card Network side

you probably have three billion cards in

the market doing 15 billion transactions

today which generate probably a trillion

data points daily um whether that be

geolocation relationship between a

merchant the consumer the type of items

you're buying is that your device where

you know there's a zillion different

points of data we figure out how to

apply AI to our own systems

internally because every company is

inefficient at some level or another

right you know I touched on earlier

we've got you know 600 plus products

each one of them has multiple versions

of people are using each one has

multiple implementation guides multiple

user guides multiple technical support

guides so think of the thousands and

thousands of pages of documentation that

MasterCard has what is an AI agent help

do to go from reams of content to an

agent that can help you understand how

to use a product how how what what do I

do with my points no exactly check out

this code it could be everything from QA

to finding the right thing and that's

really a really low-level example but

actually probably a critical one for if

you're a bank right or if you're a a

tech company or you have any sort of a

large user base before you go and try

and put something in front of a consumer

to figure out and understand put

something within your own company within

your own processes to figure out how you

can make things more efficient between

your customer support teams and your

product teams or your delivery teams and

the like so there's lots of efficiency

that AI can use internally within

companies and that goes back to the

point of if it's like electricity it

should be powering everything in your

company how you feel the adoption curve

is going to look like for business and

consumers and we can we can talk about

maybe about like spec on other features

that you're looking at um but I I kind

of feel like you're you're answering a

little bit in terms of mastercard's

process to evaluate to build and to

learn but let's go back to the

electricity thing if for the average

person to come in contact with uh the

internal combustion engine or electric

lights they're probably going first to

the World's Fair or they're reading

about it they it's either being um over

over a long period in a very Contex

heavy way present presented to them and

then it gets disseminated across

Society you and I were talking right

before this about prominent tech people

uh sharing deep fakes of them right now

yeah we're just on a level of like

distribution of new exciting things

that's like far beyond any other time so

maybe I want to ask you first how how

you navigate the adoption curve you're

talking about um

what's that expression you know people

uh overestimate the change they can make

in the short term and underestimate the

change they can make in the long term I

it's kind of you could that's the kind

of rule 101 with technology in a lot of

ways too right and maybe it maybe it

goes back to you know there is um you

know the the internal geek in all of us

that love the new shiny ball and the new

technology and some are early adopters

more than others but we all have a

little bit of that kind of intellectual

Cur osity you either want to plug it in

or take it apart yeah but would you

would you rely on it would it to run

your business or run your life or take

over certain components of your um

personal finances business finances yeah

yeah exactly so you know and it's um you

can have a ton of different examples on

that whether that be crypto or whether

that be anything else if I think of the

role that we play in providing critical

infrastructure for economy to run

um that's where we are it's it's you

know it's one thing Building Technology

it's another to scale it they're two

completely different things and they're

often two different parties yes right so

we're we're not necessarily the company

that creates a lot of the technology but

we figure out how to scale it and how to

create those standards that people can

rely on um when it comes to things like

deep fakes of course yeah AI uh as any

new technology there's a good side and a

dark side I thought it was very clever

of my uh cyber security and fraud team

in one of our quarterly business reviews

last year decided to do a deep fake of

me and have me present how great they

were we're along the path to where I

wanted to get to here and you know I

wanted to even just tackle AI as its

impact on cyber security because it's a

huge component of what you guys do in

terms of again you you are helping it

enable these channels of of Commerce but

then you also have to enforce those

standards protect them against um all

the people that would see opportunity

and getting access to the data the rails

the actual you know transactable

component of this does MasterCard have a

thesis on at the consumer level where

some of these tools might be enabled

like you're testing internally um and

like I I want to hear from you where you

are

seeing t

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fincial you're talking about financial

impact if you think about it

conceptually you know a good part of

your life is responsible with your

financial institution right you have

your mortgage your your Banks and uh all

that your cash and all that stuff and

your Investments and your retirement all

in a bank and you'll walk into a branch

and nobody knows you yes you have to

Advocate it's startling like think about

that for a second well when we talked we

talked about the chatot level right you

never want to be on the end point of a

conversation with a uh a major business

trying to Advocate on behalf of yourself

for either your loyalty or uh an

imminent change in loyalty because of

some sort of experience because you

feel uh Anonymous to them I think if I

if I bucket the the modernization of

loyalty I think goes from uh just

transactional to

relationship um so you know it's same

going and say if you're at that

institution forever and you sign up for

a new product you're treated like a day

one customer today it's mindboggling you

even have to fill out an application yes

for a a new product and then we're not

we're not throwing shade in any specific

industry where you go to your doctor's

office or whatever everyone's treated

I'm just I'm it's all intake I'm just

exposing what the opportunity is on the

modernization of loyalty and the impact

something like AI can have in the

relationship between any Merchant and

its customers okay what what is required

D I'll take a step back to get data on

the cloud required us from going to

actual racks of storage space to uh a

virtualization process that like once

it's there it's it's like oh it's the

same thing it's just in the cloud it's

just up there it's great you can pull

down any time for me got internet

connection different folder on my

computer yeah um what yeah what you were

talking about

is all of that data being in relation to

each other

some sort of thing parsing

it connecting it to human decision

makers to like say you know how do how

do we want to keep and maintain that

loyalty and then a consumer touch point

so in in your like product and platforms

responsibility take us behind the

curtain and like this isn't as simple as

like oh we're digitizing this thing or

we're putting on the cloud what's what's

the work going on right now is it even

just like knowing where all the data is

to connect it and feed it and train it

or what is that what is that like and I

know like we could go I'm willing to go

as nerdy as you want to go but what I'd

prefer is if we stay someplace that's

tangible for people to understand like

the effort required to to take Tech to

product well I think that goes back to

what I get excited at MasterCard and its

role as a network can do not only for

that bank but for that small business on

the corner who doesn't have a loyalty

proof

and how can he

actually a loyalty or relationship

experience and not having to have a big

Tech lift in many ways there's roles

that networks can play that actually

provide that for any Merchant so I think

we're very very cognizant of um how do

you make sure whatever technology is

coming to Market that you're providing a

level of Safety and Security and

soundness that people can trust and

build trust with over time

um and then the second layer to that is

inclusivity how are you making sure that

you are as often as possible leveling

the playing field for whether it's a

small fintech or whether it's a um just

a Canadian company trying to do business

internationally uh or a small business

um how can they take advantage of that

technology just as equally as a larger

company can because if you were building

it for just one of those cohorts you'd

be replicating the old style of well we

either need a a Rewards program for

everybody or we only offer it to the

people that okay so you've got to be

building versatility in from the

beginning and then the network side are

you basically like this is where you're

saying without saying it because you're

very confident in it we know every data

touch point that would be required for

this because we we watch we watch that

process happen every day basically okay

um and on the on the dark side of that

fence because you touch that you looked

over it a little bit earlier um same

thing applies right so it is a continual

arms race right if there's anyone that

adapts technology faster than anyone

else it's people that can take advantage

to to do some sort of a it's weirdos on

the internet yeah it's bad actors yeah

and the cost of scaling is actually a

lot less and the and and um so yeah

there is a lot of things that we do from

a protection standpoint um if you think

of account takeovers Canadians are

actually I saw this the other day we are

the most targeted population on the

planet for SMS

scams right because we're so trusting

yeah so and that everything from you

know uh I won't say some large delivery

company that says you have a package

waiting for you to um someone else who's

lonely and just wants to text you and

it's all of a sudden it's a romance of

some sort uh Romance scams are really

really big um uh so big um there was

actually a financial institution in uh

the

UK that have actually on their customer

support team hired

psychologists oh wow because we're

working with that financial institution

to identify romance scams you think

you've fallen in love with someone and

you were going to send them money to

have a flight to come and see meanwhile

you failed a touring test and okay yeah

so rather than have a customer support

person call them and say uh yeah we

blocked your transaction because we

think it's fraudulent and they and that

customer saying what are you talking

about you don't know who I am you don't

know what I'm talking about screw you

where's my money uh the the bank is

genuinely trying to protect the customer

in that regard do they always get a

right 100% no nothing's up but they're

you know they're going to air are they

that you know the 90th percentile are

they on the right side of the fence so I

thought it was incredible

impressive actually of that institution

to have psychologists to be able to talk

to their customer about the situation

they've got themselves into which is

it's not about the transaction and we're

protecting you know fraud um it's about

kind of again going back to the

relationship there so it um you know the

the role that we play there obviously

um things like credit card fraud we've

you know done a great job with over uh

lifespan of our history but that's

expanded much more into more broadly

account opening account takeovers um

loyalty fraud there's a lot of other

different categories I touched on

romance scams and things like that as

well and there are a lot of data points

and touch points that we are identifying

not to track we don't we have zero

interest in tracking people we're not a

media company we're not trying to

monetize anyone in that regard but um we

do want to make sure that if you've

suddenly uh logged into an account and

you've changed the email address and

you've accessed it from a device you've

never that's never been accessed before

we even know that if you're accessing

from your mobile phone you hold it in

your left hand at 35 degrees on on

average and your typing speeds 35 words

a minute and these are your typical

common language like there's a lot of

things that yes if and if the

information was implemented

instantaneous instantaneously almost as

if through an API maybe it's probably

not the actual customer okay yeah um

well I got some some data here so this

is from the Canadian anti frud Center

noting that Canadians lost 554 million

Canadian due to fraud in 2023 alone

which is up from 531 million in 2022 so

this is like a a thing and I would say

this is before although anyone paying

attention has seen the number of uh

Enterprise level and even like Municipal

level like cities are getting hacked and

and and are in a

ransomware uh State I still don't think

we've seen the real product explosion of

of deep fakes and stuff like this do you

are you telling me that the real beyond

the tech the real Threat Vector is new

capacity for cheap Deployable tools to

attack cuddly Canadians who don't think

that anyone's wishing to do them harm

like is it is it the human element

that's the easiest Vector

well you know hindsight always gives you

kind of interesting or different

perspective than when you were going

through something right if you were to

rebuild the internet from scratch

knowing what we know now and knowing how

it's being used and the type of

applications it's used for compared to

early days early days the you know you

look at the initial white papers of the

internet it was about the um

disintermediation of information the

problem though

was our identity became

content right like I I'm willing to

about the average Canadian has between

120 and 150 accounts online whether that

be with retailers Banks social networks

you know places that you've done

business cities federal taxes whatever

the case is it's roughly around there

1208

150 of all of those accounts you've

probably used two to three email

addresses three to five

passwords o three to five it we make it

really oh no really easy that's bad for

the hackers that made that actually made

my spine tingle a little bit that's not

a that number isn't High Enough so when

you then think of you talked about kind

of the incremental or the acceleration

of hacks and access to data and

information whether it's a large Global

Hotel chain or whether it's a platform

or a local

city I hate to tell you this but your

you know your basic identity your first

name last name address date of birth

it's pretty much public domain at this

point yeah right and so and and it

actively can be monetized which is why

we're going to do a a viral social media

dance

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a merchant a device of some form to

securely protect that credential from

from being uh

replicated um works well for credit

cards right and so that's why you can

store a version of your card on your

phone and in your a web wallet of some

sort whatever your preference is um or

store it on different places and it

works right and you need to have some

sort of authentication with it um

identity should have been treated the

same way right and the notion that we

still use um plastic cards uh to verify

ourselves um with the super secret CVC

on the back right because that's well

yeah yeah but you're talking about uh

credit cards let's just even use

something like uh provincial Health

cards oh I see what you're say right

that you show up at a walk-in clinic or

your doctor's office you're not even

authenticated yes they're taking that

number for billing purposes so they know

who to Bill Bill it against but they

don't actually know if it's you they

didn't know that you could actually buy

that template online in Photoshop

version for 20 bucks or something like

that with and generative AI why not just

be throwing them out like candy right

simplify okay so is this where we get

to uh Biometrics as a tie-in right so if

you're going to have this kind of like

token of

self ma uh matching and verifying that

needs a similar level of like you can't

be standing beside your digital ID all

the time being like obviously it's me so

uh how how is this being implemented and

impacted and I know like you guys

launched your own biometric

authentication Service uh through Pho

which is the fast identity online uh

basically again back to standards right

standards exactly right so being a make

sure they have something that's

interoperable and like Google Apple One

Password everybody's this is the place

where they decide how ID is being

figured out right and so we're we're um

democratizing things like biometric

services so whether you're a small

business you don't you shouldn't have to

figure out how to build out a whole Tech

stack in order to accept biometric

service capabilities it should be a very

light lift now changing habits and

behaviors obviously at any company

there's a process change um but we're

trying to make that lift significantly

light for anyone to be able to adopt

yeah um and I was say most people

probably uh

with a phone from like the last three to

four years is probably a little bit more

comfortable with Biometrics than they

would be and uh well even touch ID Touch

ID was the big one I think for people

because they're like you know there's a

to your Generations there's a generation

like nobody's putting my fingerprint on

anything and sending it anywhere and

then it becomes the ultimate convenience

and then from the the facial component I

had a real strong reaction to that just

because I didn't want to be um cognizant

of how I like looked or how what I was

projecting to the world every day but I

also know it's been like just it's uh

incredibly smooth and convenient have

have you seen a like do people um uh

that like MasterCard engaged with

understand that that's Biometrics or do

they like oh it's the new it's the new

whatever feature and I do I do the face

swipe or the tapy tap and then I don't

have to think about it yeah so it's

funny you said tapy tap because that's

exactly what my mother said uh because

it perfect example when we talk about

inclusivity I'm deep in my research

right is my my parents are at that age

where you know they're starting to get a

little for forgetful they're seeing all

of the processes around them migrate

online yeah they're getting overwhelmed

with password resets two Factor

authentications like they they were like

printing off their bills and going into

the bank 32-bit or 64-bit encryption all

that sort of stuff and so it actually

got to the point it was like super

overwhelming for them now they have a

keyboard where they just press

it it's actually it's brought them

closer to doing more things online so

the pendulum has swung backwards where

there the level of complexity has now

made people more comfortable okay this

is great because I wanted to talk about

this a little bit because you were um

conveying some really cool James bondy

style um how to catch Bad actors type

stuff right because you can't yeah you'd

have to have to kill the stream um but

in many other contexts either

historically or depending on who you're

asking some of the what you're

describing and the the knowledge that

you have access to to make sure the

right person is engaging with it is also

horrifying if that information is Mal

appropriated so how do you like we've

been talking a lot about trust more in

enablement of like good experiences but

you're also using information to combat

Bad actors and then there's got to be a

trust component in terms of misusing

that so like where does privacy play

into this yeah huge huge um you know

let's talk about an experience probably

everyone in your audience has done okay

and they probably never realized all the

complexity that Happ around it right um

back in the day you used to hail a cab

yes and uh you get in that cab maybe

they accepted credit cards maybe they

didn't maybe they you just paid cash you

didn't know where that maybe the meter

wasn't who knows there was a whole bunch

of stuff and the cab driver didn't know

who was getting in the back of his car

they were worried are they going to get

robbed they may have a whole bunch of

cash on them all so so there was a

significant lack of trust on both the

driver and the passenger if you think of

when you order a an Uber or lft or any

any other sort of car ride service it's

out there the amount of complexity

that's happening when you do that you're

authenticating the user you're making

sure it's their device you're you're

authenticating their financial

instrument making sure that they can

actually pay for any sort of ride y

you're authenticating the driver the

driver may actually have to take a

selfie before he picks up that ride yep

um there and so there is a a significant

level of authentication that's happened

before you even get into that vehicle oh

and then when you're in even to the

level sometimes I'll receive a message

if we're stck in just horrible Toronto

traffic being like hey just checking in

are you okay we've noticed that you have

stopped moving and you're not at your

destination yet which um I think you

know as uh two white guys we can note

here is probably incredibly comforting

to uh certain uh demographics of people

that might feel very very unsafe beings

yeah of course yeah there's there's a

whole bunch of you know safety uh so

there's there's making sure there's not

bad actors how do you enrich the safety

experience uh from a from user

experience standpoint and then from a

checkout experience it goes away there

is no payment or there is a payment but

the payment experience isn't like this

extra thing at the end of a ride and I'm

trying to get out um and that's where

actually biometric actually I think will

start seeing more and

more um in relation to Commerce in

general you're starting to see it

already uh I've been talking about this

for the years the next thing to be

disrupted is the checkout but you're

starting to see even vendors uh at

certain airports uh I know the sports

arena here um uh instead of having to

stand wait in the line to pay for stuff

you can just walk up there's cameras

that are biometrically authenticating

you and if you've agreed to be able to

sign up for that service and pay for it

walk in walk out you've gotten rid of

the checkout this is that type of data

is never really shared it's more

accessed and then access is turned off

right like there's a secure element on

Nei Electronics device that allows it to

know that I am me my Thum print is me

whatever but that's never conveyed which

is good going back to the cloud example

very very different is that is that the

fire break between

enabling all of these benefits to having

that and not being like Oh my God I just

put like my digital thumb print on the

internet yeah last thing you want to do

is create a a honey pot of biometric

data yes okay but you are touching on a

an important point that every company

that you interact or intersect with is

collecting more and more data right and

so uh whether you like it or not whether

because you signed up for their loyalty

program or is because you bought

something online with them so they know

your home address and all that sort of

stuff that are stored in a profile your

information is stored in more and more

places so when it comes to cyber

security

um a lot of small businesses think well

it's not on me I like I I've signed up

and I use this software platform I use

this cloud service and it's on them to

figure that out there actually is a a

pretty significant layer of

responsibility that everyone should have

um it's it's not that they should have

an expensive burden on but there should

be a level of awareness and

consideration you could be an accountant

you can be a lawyer with an entire rack

of um uh divorce files yes name the data

set there's a level of yeah there's

massive amounts of considerations there

so there's a lot of capabilities that

MasterCard has there um things like Risk

Recon and my cyber risk that is a very

very very very very light and easy way

for any company to understand what their

cyber security risk is is my network

secure is my supply chain that I

interact with digitally is there is

there vulnerabilities there right and

they you shouldn't have to figure that

from a tech but these tools and

capabilities MasterCard provides to many

small businesses and platforms and you

get just basically like a scorecard

you're like your supply chain A+ you're

good or C you've got some part parties

who have either been in vulnerability

threats or they've been hacked or if

you're sending data to them there's a

variety of different ways that a there

is a level of awareness and

consideration people need to have but we

need to make sure that they have the

right tools that it's not super

disruptive for their business okay that

makes that makes a lot of sense and and

again we're talking about like the power

of these networks as new tech emerges

and gets productized uh I would would be

super remiss if I didn't have someone

from masterg guard here and we didn't

talk a little bit about open Banking and

payments modernization cuz we're like

What if your mom uses her phone to take

an Uber uh or a lift and this

infrastructure doesn't exist in a vacuum

it's definitely a

um uh an intersection of of public and

private

sector um but also I know that we

everything that we've tried to talk

about so far today is contextualize it

for like the average person's experience

and then showing the iceberg of how that

exists I know for a fact that open

Banking and payments modernization means

absolutely nothing to the average

Canadian particularly since they haven't

had it so how would you contextualize

what these new pipes this new tech will

enable for the people listening to this

who have followed along up until this

point sure because we got through

Biometrics we can get through open

banking yeah right yeah for sure

um so it's another great bucket or

example of

again I don't think open banking is a

product I think it's infrastructure and

it's about the applications you build on

top of it um some of those may be almost

invisible or feel invisible to someone

but it just provides a level of value

and convenience

um uh so MasterCard is heavily involved

uh around the world around open banking

standards um some of the standards that

are out there some of the founders of

those standards actually work at master

card so we we work very closely on that

um if I if I go back to kind of what I

talked about earlier on the kind of

where I see the three pillars of all of

our capabilities data analytics cyber

security and real-time

authentication that's open bank yeah

it's that's the whole that's that's the

end to end really of of what open

banking is in some ways but so wait have

we just been having a conversation about

open banking the whole time because that

would be the level of uh Bic traduction

that's a

matrix okay uh because you uh because

the the process through which that data

would be shared secured like we're

talking even the examples you were

talking about before of a of uh certain

financial institutions being able to

offer you like actually have different

offers based upon your loyalty your

history um traditionally that would have

to come through one specific financial

institution because um you know uh up

until that point your data is Fort Knox

right like they actually they keep it in

the vault literally uh what we're now is

describing a circumstance where uh that

information can be connected passed

along utilized in way for net new

services that could be coming from uh

the same company well well well yes the

same company but also be a company that

offers Insurance brokerages Banking and

the banking part has no idea they have

an insurance relationship with you or a

brokerage relationship you or you know

I'm still thinking about that small

business who might be working on

something really really cool that uh I

would love to sign up for if I don't

have to fill out you know 30 pages of my

personal history to validate the risk

profile of something like that right so

you you see open banking as the

mechanism for a lot of these products

where where does the um you know we talk

about payments modernization it's really

just like realtime rails where is that

is that again just another like what if

we could do all the things that we do

now but faster like how does that pay

off for the businesses and consumers are

using it what does that Next Level sure

enable so um great question uh I would

say the first problem open banking has

is the name open banking okay it

actually has a it needs a rebranding of

of sorts because that in

itself terrifies people it it terrifies

Banks and it terrifies consumers what

what do you mean my banking information

is supposed to be secure and locked down

it's the reason why I have a

relationship with a bank

it's supposed to be in a vault yeah yeah

yeah that you know just like the the

whether it's subliminal or subconscious

or however you want to describe it it

it's banks are fearful on if I enable

open banking what happens to my

relationship am I liable if something

happens is this going to expand account

uh takeovers you know what's what's

happening all that sort of stuff and

consu consumers don't like what does

that mean what is open banking mean

again it's like another technology that

I don't really see the value in open

banking

but but I see the scariness of being

insecure potentially right so if you uh

were able to document a day in the life

of a new immigrant to this

country and what it's like in that first

30 days to try and open a bank

account what's the first thing you do

they typically open a bank account

what's the second thing they do

sometimes it's the first try and get a

phone or a t communication well you

can't get that unless you have credit

card well can't get a credit card unless

bank account I can't get a bank account

because I don't have a credit file in

this country oh okay so so you start

going on about just the real Basics and

the you can have someone who is like a

business professional from

Singapore moved to Canada for business

and it's like they fell from the sky

totally right not able to identify that

person validate their income validate

their payroll they don't have a credit

file um so what's the role the open

banking can play be able to validate

they have a banking relationship at some

Bank in let's say Singapore if that was

the example I used earlier um what's the

history of that bank what's their credit

rating in that uh Market oh by the way

they just sold their property in that

country and they're trying to move uh a

significant amount of money over to to

this Bank um because that's typically

that's the challenge you have now a wire

um so I I prefer the reference of

connected Finance versus open banking I

know it's subtle words are really

important for me though so I actually it

it changes the framing a little bit well

you're a product guy presentation is

part of design I I totally get that

connected Finance where I can if I need

to validate my income and validate my

sources and validate my existing banking

relationship and validate my identity I

should be able to do that from other

trusted and relied sources to a new

relationship that I want to be able to

build with the key there right

is as the individual who's going to

benefit from that in the middle it

should be very trans transparent for

them what information is being asked and

for what purpose that needs to be

explicit because if you don't know what

data is being captured yeah and what

they're going to do with that data are

they storing it are they storing it

somewhere are they going to do it for a

whole bunch of other things are they

gonna you know sell there's so it is

important and it's a perfect example of

where there needs to be both um

government and private

sector um collaboration on building the

right standards to provide the right

level of privacy and security and I

think the challenge a lot of people have

whether they be fexs or open banking

companies or people that are trying to

uh open up uh and leverage open banking

capabilities is the technolog is there

but the trust infrastructure around it

and the liability risk framework hasn't

really really been it it's still in its

early days other countries have built

out better

Frameworks um have built Frameworks yeah

let's use Australia as an example right

they're probably 18 months ahead of

Canada in that regard um have a number

of Australian banks here in Toronto this

week and doing some best practice

sharing um and once the government

defined what a a baseline framework of

acceptance on data rights and data usage

um MasterCard was actually one of the

first companies that were given full

accreditation to be able to provide not

screen scraping and those type of things

but direct API access uh and providing

the right level permissions and the

right level of transparency for user

protection it went from having zero

Banks to all top 20 Banks live with

direct apis over a summer yeah so

standards matter and governance matter

and privacy in that so and they don't

unfortunately move at the same Pace as

what the technology capabilities are so

it's actually a perfect example where

it's in the early stages of a capability

that some people see the value in um

other people still don't know how they

can use it but uh I think when it comes

back to what we talked about earlier

about relationship um loyalty

relationship um Enterprise loyalty I

guess rather than just transactional

loyalty uh for small

businesses I think I think it completely

modernizes cash flow capabilities um

Supply Chain management yes um there's a

lot of uh interesting use cases there

might tie in well to the productivity

conversations happening in this country

if expense management goods and services

move better money moves faster

absolutely yeah virtual cards uh are not

a new thing but actually get unlocked

and Unleashed with things like open

banking so I can start building direct

relationships with my suppliers I may be

I don't know a plumber with three vans

on the road uh and so I'm not I'm too

small to have a corporate card program

and so I have these kind of wonky Supply

chains and I'm dealing with checks and

invoices and I have two people that are

sitting there running spreadsheets

managing all these expenses and stuff

how can I have connected Finance to

those suppliers with virtual cards that

are tethered directly to that person so

even if they were hacked the only place

that card can be used is with that

Merchant I don't want to get too far in

the weeds but I'm start giving you

examples where everything gets leveled

up honestly I'm really I'm really glad

you're you're you're selling this to me

because I'm buying it because honestly

what what we've been the the counter

examples are digital Finance but digital

only in the way of like digitizing the

old process and it's that it's that

connected that really drives a lot of

you know audience if you like what we've

described the future laid out here

you're looking for connected Finance um

okay master just released the emerging

Tech Trends report which speaks to a

bunch of the thing like I've been

cribbing from that in my prep for this

is there anything that we didn't talk

about that you'd want to highlight uh

from that report uh whether it comes to

either the kind of main pillars of how

MasterCard is tracking new tech or you

know anything else you'd want to say

about the company's role in involving

some of these uh Financial Services like

from the tech

product CU you're you're at a really

interesting position where you get to

talk about both right how one becomes

the other yeah and I sometimes people

get frustrated because they're like oh I

want it tomorrow right like the early

techn open bang is a great example

there's a lot of people that are very

angry in this country you don't have it

today and there's another audience they

like I don't know what I need it for

right so there there's a um and that's

where it's a very interesting position

to be in a company like MasterCard where

you drisk technology and you um you

shake it down and you stress test it to

bring uh the bar up in terms of um the

the the drisk of that capability and you

lower the bar on um being able to gain

access to it and so it's whether it's a

small Merchant or an individual they

should be able to gain access to that my

mother should be able to figure out how

to use biometric service without having

to be a techie yes the tap tap yeah the

tapt exactly um so it's a really it's a

it's a fun role as a network to be very

um cognizant of the impact and the value

that we drive for someone but it's about

um absolutely securing and providing

that extra level of trust that this

technology can be relied on um the

emerging tech report goes into

definitely a lot around AI um if we had

more time we can talk about a lot of

interesting use cases and travel and

health a variety of different areas

there that we're working on um I would

say probably the other wave that you'll

start seeing probably more and more um

at a mainstream level is around Quantum

Computing and the impact that will have

um on cyber security yeah yeah when all

of our passwords today can be broken

within milliseconds yes um uh whether it

is about the distribution of deep fakes

uh the accuracy and quality of deep

fakes Quantum Computing plays a

significant role there um probably one

of the single largest Investments

MasterCard has been making over the last

several years is around Quantum

Computing to uh be able to bulletproof

existing networks existing transaction

management uh but create the next wave

of opportunities too are you saying that

someday soon I could have a Quantum

MasterCard

card maybe okay um that is a great place

to end it uh darl I really appreciate

you talking me through some of this

stuff because uh that you you uh you put

your hands in it and I appreciate the um

willingness to be part of that filter

between uh interesting idea to something

that becomes a part of every Canadian's

uh you know uh day um so thank you so

much for this if there was um anyone

watching this uh that wanted to get more

into this conversation some of the tech

where where would you be sending them

yeah so MasterCard Canada websites

you've got our signals report there

there's one on future Tech Trends

there's one on AI specifically you'll

see two or three more coming out over

the next little while so there's all a

lot of thought leadership and thought

provoking on on how do you um and it's

not it doesn't get into the technology

geeky side of it it's more of the what

does this actually mean and what are

some of the questions you might need to

even ask yourself for the viability of

your business and the viability of your

relationships in your business okay all

right well so check that out and then

maybe we'll have darl back to talk about

Quantum I'm looking forward to that

sounds good thank you all right

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cheers

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he

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