Modern Times, Vedic Perspective | Audio Book | Chapters 1 to 4

Summary

The script features a series of profound discussions between His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and various individuals during the 1970s. It explores deep philosophical and spiritual concepts, such as the nature of consciousness, the illusion of material identification, and the quest for ultimate reality. These dialogues challenge materialistic perceptions, highlighting the madness of societal norms and the recurring illusion of dreams, both day and night. Swami Prabhupada emphasizes the importance of transcending these illusions to understand one's true spiritual identity and duty, advocating for a life dedicated to spiritual enlightenment and service to God.

Takeaways

• 🧘 Krishna Consciousness is the natural state of the living entity, and forgetting our relationship with Krishna is likened to madness.
• 🌐 Material identifications such as nationality or religion are considered false, as the soul is pure and unattached to bodily designations.
• 🌙 The material world is seen as a dream from which we must awaken to understand our true, eternal nature as spiritual beings.
• 🕊️ The human form of life is a special opportunity to achieve spiritual perfection and should not be wasted on mere sensual enjoyment.
• 📚 Education in Krishna Consciousness is essential to counter the ignorance that modern society often promotes regarding the spiritual self.
• ⚖️ All souls are of equal value, regardless of the body they inhabit, as they are all part and parcel of the Supreme Soul, Krishna.
• 🤔 Atheistic science and materialistic education are criticized for not addressing the ultimate problems of life, such as birth, old age, disease, and death.
• 🌟 Surrendering to Krishna is presented as the path to real intelligence and liberation from the cycle of birth and death.
• 🙏 Devotional service and bhakti yoga are emphasized as the means to transition from a state of neutrality to one of active service to God.
• 🌱 The process of anumana, or logic, is used to deduce the existence of God as the operator of the material nature.
• 🚫 The materialistic pursuit of sense gratification is identified as a trap that keeps individuals bound to the material world and away from spiritual realization.

Q & A

What was the main topic of the conversation between AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and Dr. Christian Hower?

The main topic of the conversation was the concept of Krishna Consciousness and how it can help individuals find their true, original spiritual nature, as opposed to the materialistic and temporary nature of human existence.

How does Swami Prabhupada describe the state of being in contact with material nature?

Swami Prabhupada describes the state of being in contact with material nature as a form of madness, where individuals forget their relationship with Krishna and their true spiritual identity.

According to Swami Prabhupada, what is the purpose of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness?

The purpose of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness is to help individuals realize their spiritual nature, free themselves from the materialistic dream state, and understand their eternal relationship with Krishna.

What does Swami Prabhupada suggest about the nature of designations such as nationality, religion, and race?

Swami Prabhupada suggests that these designations are false and dreamlike, as the true nature of the soul is pure and has no connection with any material designations.

How does Swami Prabhupada differentiate between the temporary dreams of night and the daytime experiences of life?

Swami Prabhupada states that both are dreams and temporary, but people often mistake their daytime experiences as the permanent reality. The goal is to understand the permanent spiritual reality and not be deluded by the temporary material situations.

What is the significance of the human form of life according to the teachings of Swami Prabhupada?

The human form of life is significant because it provides the opportunity to achieve the highest spiritual perfection and evolve from the temporary material world to the eternal world of bliss.

What does Swami Prabhupada suggest is the main problem with modern civilization?

Swami Prabhupada suggests that the main problem with modern civilization is that it is a 'killing civilization' that engages people in sense gratification, leading to a cycle of repeated birth and death, instead of providing education and opportunities for spiritual advancement.

How does Swami Prabhupada define real intelligence?

Real intelligence, according to Swami Prabhupada, is the understanding of God and the ability to surrender to Krishna, which frees one from the control of material nature and the cycle of birth, death, disease, and old age.

What is the role of devotional service in Bhakti Yoga?

Devotional service in Bhakti Yoga is the act of serving God with love and devotion, which begins with the understanding of God's greatness and the desire to serve Him, as opposed to being entangled in material activities for sense enjoyment.

How does Swami Prabhupada view the equality of all souls?

Swami Prabhupada views all souls as equal in spiritual value, being part and parcel of the Supreme Soul, Krishna. The difference lies in the material bodies, not in the souls themselves.

What is the basis of Swami Prabhupada's argument against materialistic science and atheism?

Swami Prabhupada's argument against materialistic science and atheism is that they fail to acknowledge or understand the existence and importance of God, and that real education involves understanding God, not just material phenomena.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Escaping Material Madness

The first paragraph discusses a conversation between AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and psychiatrist Dr. Christian Hower. They explore the concept of Krishna Consciousness, the natural state of the soul, and how identifying with materialistic labels like nationality or religion is akin to madness. They compare the temporary nature of waking life to dreaming and emphasize the importance of recognizing one's eternal relationship with Krishna to achieve true consciousness and sanity.

05:01

🌙 The Illusion of Material Dreams

The second paragraph continues the conversation with a focus on the illusory nature of material existence. It discusses how most people perceive only the nighttime dream as illusory while taking daytime experiences as reality. The paragraph highlights the mission of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness to help individuals awaken from the material dream and understand their eternal nature. It also touches on the idea that materialistic designations are false and that true sanity comes from liberating oneself from these false identities.

10:01

🍬 The Pursuit of Sense Gratification

In the third paragraph, Swami Prabhupada and his disciples discuss the attachment to material sense gratification and how it dominates the world. They compare human civilization to animal behavior, emphasizing the futility of seeking happiness through material means. The paragraph also stresses the importance of using the human form of life for spiritual advancement rather than wasting it on temporary sensory pleasures. It calls for education in transcendental knowledge to counter the false promises of materialism.

15:03

🕊️ Spiritual Solutions to Material Problems

The fourth paragraph emphasizes that material enjoyment is not the solution to life's ultimate problems, such as birth, old age, disease, and death. It suggests that Krishna Consciousness provides a path to spiritual advancement and liberation from the cycle of birth and death. The conversation points out that while material adjustments can provide temporary relief, they cannot address the fundamental issues of human existence. The paragraph calls for a shift in priorities from sense gratification to spiritual growth.

20:04

🧐 The Folly of Atheistic Science

The fifth paragraph features a dialogue between Swami Prabhupada and a Jesuit priest, discussing the concept of anumana, or logical inference, as a means to understand the existence of God. It criticizes atheistic science for lacking common sense and for its inability to address the ultimate problems of life. The paragraph argues that real education involves understanding God and that materialistic education is insufficient in providing solutions to life's core issues.

25:07

🌟 The Equality of All Souls

The sixth paragraph continues the exchange between Swami Prabhupada and the Jesuit priest, focusing on the spiritual equality of all souls. It challenges the notion that the soul of a human is of higher value than that of an animal, asserting that all souls are part and parcel of the Supreme Soul, Krishna. The conversation explores the concept of oneness and difference in relation to God and His energies, emphasizing that while we share qualities with God, we are distinct from Him in quantity.

30:08

🛤️ The Path to Spiritual Freedom

The seventh and final paragraph delves into the idea that surrendering to Krishna is the true mark of intelligence and the key to escaping the material nature's control. It discusses the concept of service to the Supreme as the highest form of devotion and the means to end suffering. The paragraph also addresses the misconception that humans are the only important beings, stressing that all life forms are equal in the spiritual realm and are deserving of love and respect.

Keywords

💡Krishna Consciousness

Krishna Consciousness refers to a spiritual concept that emphasizes the original status of the living entity's relationship with Krishna, a deity in Hinduism. In the video, it is described as the natural state of being where one is conscious of their eternal connection to Krishna, which is considered to be forgotten in the material world. The term is central to the video's theme, which discusses the spiritual journey and the importance of recognizing one's true self beyond material existence.

💡Material Nature

Material nature is a concept that represents the physical world and its influences on the consciousness of living beings. The video suggests that when the spiritual spark, or the living entity, comes into contact with material nature, it experiences a form of madness, forgetting its true spiritual identity. This concept is integral to the discussion on why humans are considered to be in a state of delusion and how they can regain their spiritual sanity.

💡Spiritual Spark

The spiritual spark is a term used to describe the divine, eternal part of a living entity that is distinct from the material body. It is mentioned in the video that even though the living entity is in contact with material nature, the spiritual spark within remains untouched and is capable of restoring one's original consciousness. This concept is key to understanding the potential for individuals to awaken to their true spiritual nature.

💡Madness

In the context of the video, madness is used metaphorically to describe the state of being disconnected from one's spiritual reality and being fully immersed in the material world. It is likened to a dream from which one must awaken to recognize their true spiritual identity. The term is repeatedly used to emphasize the delusional nature of material existence and the need for spiritual awakening.

💡Designations of the Body

Designations of the body refer to the various labels and identities that people associate with themselves based on their physical form, such as nationality, race, or religion. The video argues that these designations are false and have no connection to the soul. They are part of the dream-like state of material existence that one must transcend to realize their spiritual nature.

💡Spiritual Perfection

Spiritual perfection is the concept of achieving the highest state of spiritual realization and liberation from the cycle of birth and death. It is suggested in the video that the human form of life provides a unique opportunity to attain this state of perfection. This keyword is central to the message that one should utilize the human life for spiritual advancement rather than being preoccupied with material sense gratification.

💡Sense Gratification

Sense gratification refers to the pursuit of pleasure and satisfaction through the stimulation of the physical senses. The video discusses how the majority of human activities are driven by the desire for sense gratification, which is considered to be a lower form of existence. It is contrasted with spiritual advancement, which is presented as the higher purpose of human life.

💡Repeat Birth and Death

Repeat birth and death is a concept that describes the cycle of reincarnation that living entities undergo due to their attachment to material nature and sense gratification. The video emphasizes that spiritual practice and knowledge can liberate one from this cycle, allowing them to return to the spiritual world. This concept is used to highlight the spiritual goal of achieving liberation and the urgency of pursuing spiritual life.

💡Transcendental Books

Transcendental books are sacred texts or scriptures that contain knowledge beyond the material world and guide individuals towards spiritual understanding and realization. In the video, it is suggested that reading and studying these books is essential for spiritual enlightenment and for overcoming the ignorance perpetuated by materialistic education. The term is significant as it represents the source of knowledge that can lead to spiritual awakening.

💡Real Intelligence

Real intelligence, as discussed in the video, is not merely academic or material success but the wisdom to understand and surrender to Krishna, the Supreme Soul. It implies recognizing the temporary nature of material existence and seeking a higher purpose. This keyword is pivotal in conveying the idea that true knowledge lies in spiritual understanding and the pursuit of a meaningful life beyond material desires.

💡Service to God

Service to God is the act of dedicating oneself to the worship and will of God, as a means to spiritual growth and self-realization. The video explains that recognizing God's greatness leads to the desire to serve Him, which is the essence of devotional service or Bhakti Yoga. This keyword is central to the video's message of redirecting one's service from the material world to God for spiritual fulfillment.

Highlights

The conversation between Swami Prup and Dr. Hower explores the concept of Krishna Consciousness and its impact on personal transformation.

Swami Prup explains that the original consciousness of the living entity is connected to Krishna, and forgetting this leads to a state of 'madness'.

Dr. Hower and Swami Prup discuss the metaphor of being haunted by a ghost to describe the materialistic perception of life.

Swami Prup emphasizes that designations such as Christian, Hindu, or nationalities are temporary and not connected to the pure soul.

The idea that life is a dream and waking up to the spiritual reality is compared to recognizing the temporary nature of both night and day dreams.

Swami Prup suggests that identifying with the material world is a form of madness that Krishna Consciousness aims to cure.

The conversation shifts to the role of sex and material sense gratification in human life and how they are akin to animalistic behaviors.

Swami Prup highlights the importance of using the human form of life for spiritual advancement rather than just sense enjoyment.

The concept of 'duraayaasa' or difficult hope is introduced, suggesting that material enjoyment is a futile pursuit of happiness.

Swami Prup criticizes modern civilization for being a 'killing civilization' that engages people in repetitive cycles of birth and death.

The necessity of educating people about the special opportunity of the human life form for spiritual growth is discussed.

Swami Prup and a Jesuit priest debate the concept of anumana or logic in understanding the existence of God.

The priest and Swami Prup exchange views on the nature of love and service in Christian mysticism and Krishna Consciousness, respectively.

Swami Prup explains that all souls are of equal value, likening the quality of the soul to a drop of water from the ocean.

The conversation touches on the concept of pride and how modern scientists' false pride in their achievements leads to denial of God's existence.

Swami Prup concludes by stressing the importance of surrendering to Krishna as the path to real intelligence and freedom from material nature's control.

Transcripts

[Music]

n

[Music]

modern times Vic perspective chapter 1

Escaping The Dream the following

conversation between his divine grace AC

bti vedanta Swami prup and a guest Dr

CHR Christian Hower a psychiatrist took

place in Stockholm on September 10th

1973 Dr Hower you know I met your

student James before he was your student

and I must say he was a very aimless

person a person who hadn't found

anything very specific in life he

floated about very much but when I met

him yesterday he was very happy he felt

happy about himself and his New Life as

a devotee and that made me very happy I

like James very much sha prup yes

Krishna Consciousness is the original

status of the living entity for instance

a young child is always conscious that I

am the son of such and such person this

Consciousness is natural a person may go

mad but when he's cured he immediately

understands

I belong to such and such family and I

am such and such gentleman's son

similarly once in contact with this

material nature the spiritual spark the

living entity he's in Madness even

though we are all part and parcel of

Krishna and our original consciousness

of Krishna cannot be broken Somehow Here

in this world we have forgotten our

relationship with Krishna this is

madness you are a psychiatrist you know

very well every man in this material

world is more or less a

Madman Dr Hower or he has the germ

within himself sh prup there is a

Bengali poem that

says

anyone who is living within this

material energy he is as if haunted by a

ghost do you have any experience of a

man haunted by a ghost or possessed Dr

Hower oh yes that's very often a symptom

of a psychosis they feel that they are

persecuted by foreign powers Shila prup

yes foreign powers that is the idea a

material con perception of life it is as

if we are haunted by a foreign power it

is madness I am Christian I am Hindu I

am Muslim I'm English I'm German these

conceptions are all haunted mad because

the soul is

pure the pure Spirit Soul has no

connection with any designations of the

Body for instance in a dream we see so

many things that have nothing to do with

us this is our nighttime dream and we

recognize it when we wake up

unfortunately when we wake up generally

we go back into our daytime dream I am

this I am that I am white I am black I

American and so forth at night when we

dream we are in a different situation

and we forget everything from the

daytime and again in the daytime we

forget everything from the night time

but actually we are entering another

dream when we leave our nighttime dream

we forget all about it and we see it for

what it was a temporary situation A

Dream but our daytime situation is also

temporary it is also a dream we have got

to know the permanent reality

I am the permanent spiritual Observer

within this temporary material situation

night time and daytime the difficulty is

most of us see these two dreams and

recognize only one as a dream we take

the daytime dream as the permanent

reality when someone takes a dream state

as reality you treat him do you not Dr

Hower hm

yes sha prup so for practical purposes

everyone who in contact with his

temporary material energy is mad and we

are trying to take him out of this mad

dreaming condition that is the sum and

substance of the international Society

for Krishna

Consciousness Dr Houser but does he stop

dreaming I mean substantially does he

stop

does one stop dreaming sha prup yes in

the sense we are using the word the soul

no longer identifies with what is not

his eternal self or with what is not his

eternal Duty he knows I am separate from

this dreaming condition so when one

knows himself to be simply The Observer

and not actually a part of the dream

then he cure

Dr Hower but the dreaming of the night

also has another

function sha prup no that is not the

idea dreaming at night and dreaming

during the day are the same thing

superficial illusory simply their

durations are different at night you

dream for a number of minutes and during

the day you dream for a number of

hours but in the daytime if you think

that you're English or you're Swedish or

that you're Hindu or Muslim that is also

a dream you are none of these any more

than you are part of your nighttime

dream because of Madness sometimes we

take it this daytime dream is a fact or

that daytime dream is a fact but none of

them are facts under the way we may

accept them as facts but none of them

are facts so once again sanity

meansi I have to become completely free

from all dreamlike

designations for instance during a

nighttime dream I may think I have now

become a king or I am the proprietor of

a factory but none of these are reality

they are only dreams similarly in the

daytime I may think I'm Russian I'm

African I am this or I am that but that

too is all a dream in reality I am a

spirit Soul part and parcel of the

Supreme spirit and my duty my nature is

to serve him it is all very

simple so sanity requires that I become

free from this dreaming condition

liberated from all kinds of false

designations Dr Hower but some of these

false false designations also are the

necessary missionary in our society

shria prup yes that Society is also

false

modern times Vic perspective chapter 2

The Killing

civilization the following conversation

between his divine grace a bakti vedanta

Swami prup and some of his disciples

took place on May 30th

1974 during a morning walk in Rome Shila

prup if people do not want to approach

the Lord's devotees for spiritual

enlightenment what can be done just see

the sparrow sex is always available to

him at any time sex is ready for him the

pigeons so anytime they want sex sex is

ready

vishu our only attachment for this

material world is visha material sense

gratification the whole world over

people are fighting simply to gratify

their bodily senses I must have nice

eating I must have nice sleeping I must

have very good sex and I should be

defended by a big bank balance by

military soldiers by a powerful poce

force by atomic weapons this is going on

all over the world take defense the

Rascal does not understand in spite of

all these defensive measures at the end

end of this lifetime I will have to

change bodies and go on suffering the

same sense gratification will be

available again in a different way and

also the same suffering take the tiny

ants they are very fond of intoxication

did you know that as soon as they get

information at the top of the skyscraper

there is a grain of sugar they will go

wine is made from sugar molasses so

sugar has the potency for intoxication

and if you keep a grain of sugar out in

this room soon there will be thousands

of ants and ants Gold Rush so study can

you see any real difference between the

so-called human civilization and the Ant

civilization the dog civilization no

difference it is only a matter of

outward

configuration devote yes at the Sunday

Feast we usually make sweet balls and

there's some sugar water left over and

the next day we find many drowned ants

because they went so wild for the sugar

that they jumped into it and killed

themselves Shila prup the Vic

literature's advice my dear human being

please note you have attained this human

form of life after many many births you

had to go through the various forms of

the Aquatic Life 900,000 species and you

had to go through the various forms of

birds and trees and plants 2 million

species consider how much time you have

spent in this slow painstaking

Evolution now you have come to the human

form of life and although it too is

temporary nonetheless you can achieve

the highest Perfection you can evolve

from Life in this temporary world of

misery to life in the Eternal world of

bliss so before your next death in this

world become a very Adept student of

spiritual Perfection and achieve it

devote but people will say then what

about my sense

enjoyment sha prup don't worry visha

your sense enjoyment will be available

in any species of life but this human

form of life you spend it for this

higher purpose don't waste it simply for

sense enjoyment the sense enjoyment you

will get even if you become a cat or dog

but in the cats or dogs body you have no

opportunity to get out of this material

existence modern rascals are getting no

education to understand the special

chance they have in human life therefore

we must give this education we must

induce them to read these transcendental

books in their schools and colleges

otherwise these Rascals have no books to

read about this transcendental

realization they have only fraud sex

philosophy and Darin's monkey Theory all

Rascal them simply Rascal them so let

them read these transcendental books

devote Ordinary People are accepting

theories that promise them better

enjoyment people like to hear someone

promising you'll get better sense

gratification sha prup politicians are

promising you take this ISM or that ISM

but nobody knows what is actually

happiness V

people are trying to be happy by sense

enjoyment the material body's enjoyment

but

duray it is simply a hope that will

never be fulfilled a asaya means hope

and dur means very difficult it is not

going to happen Krishna Consciousness is

giving you everything in the right way

so that you can save your time so that

you do not waste your time dallying with

material enjoyment and you can advance

in spiritual consciousness that is

required we don't say stop eating you

eat Take a Little Krishna prasadam

vegetarian food offered to Krishna we

don't say don't sleep no you sleep but

you must rise early in the morning and

chant har Krishna this is our philosophy

surely we give proper place to eating

sleeping and sex we don't say no sex

life yes you have sex get yourself a

Bonafide wife and live

peacefully and defense also we have we

never say you forgo all these things no

this is not a philosophy but at the same

time take only as much material

enjoyment as you Absol absolutely

required not more than that the balance

of your time save it for Spiritual

advancement Unfortunately today people

are engaged simply for eating sleeping

meeting and defending they have no time

for Krishna Consciousness no time for

spiritual consciousness this condemned

civilization must be stopped it is a

killing civilization a killing

civilization human beings have the

option of getting out of this material

bondage chewing the chewed again and

again but they are not being given the

chance to exercise the special human

option instead they are being engaged

more and more for the animal life of

sense

gratification this killing civilization

is sending human beings down into

repeated births and deaths in the animal

species but by the process of Krishna

consciousness

by renunciation and spiritual knowledge

many people have become purified and

have gone back home back to godhead the

spiritual world all this information is

available but people are not educated

therefore the Krishna Consciousness

movement is meant for educating them

that's

all modern times Vic perspective

chapter 3 on real

intelligence the following conversation

between his divine grace a bakti vanta

Swami prup and some of his disciples

took place in May

1975 during an early morning walk in

Melbourne devote Shila prup I read in

one of your books that one way we can

learn about God is through a process

called anumana what is that Shila prup

Logic for example as soon as we see a

machine we know there must be an

operator of that machine this is logic

you cannot expect the machine to work

without an operator similarly this

material nature is a machine and the

operator is God even though you cannot

see God by Logic you can know he exists

this is human reasoning but the

atheistic scien will not accept the

simple argument even an ordinary

typewriter cannot work

automatically it requires an operator to

push the buttons then how can this big

machine of the material nature work

without an operator what is this

nonsense the scientists say there is no

God everything is working by the forces

of nature but what is nature nature is

simply a machine just as our bodies are

machines the operator of the bodily

machine is the soul and the guide is the

Super Soul Lord Krishna in the heart as

soon as the soul goes away from the body

the bodily machine stops working and the

same is true for the machine of the

material nature it does not work without

an operator but the so-called scientists

have no common sense to understand this

logic therefore they are

Rascals devote who is the greater Rascal

the material scientist or the ordinary

atheist Shila

prup anyone who does not accept God is a

rascal that is krishna's statement in

the bhagat Gita verse

[Music]

7.15 who doesn't recognize God those who

are sinful Rascals the lowest of mankind

now someone may say no the scientists

are so educated but that education is

false education real education means to

understand

God if one does not understand God his

education is useless it has no meaning

when someone claims to to be educated we

should simply ask Will that education

save him from Death if not then what is

the value of his education our real

problems are birth old age disease and

death can materialistic education solve

these problems can the scientists stop

anyone from growing old nobody wants to

become old everyone wants to keep

himself youthful but no scientist can

stop old age then what is the value of

the scientist's education we acquire an

education so we can solve our problems

the scientists are solving only

temporary problems but they cannot solve

the ultimate problems therefore their

education is

useless it is simply hard labor for

nothing that's

all devote the leaders seem to have

adopted a stop Gap policy they keep the

people in ignorance and fool them into

believing progress is being made when

actually it's not in this way the

leaders can maintain their

position sha prup yes the blind leading

the

blind the leaders tell the people that

by material adjustments they will be

happy but that is not possible still the

people are such fools that they do not

think where is the solution to my

problems you have given me the chance to

live in a skyscraper building but is

that the solution to the problems of

birth old age disease and death no one

has brain enough to ask this question

everyone is trying to save himself from

disease from old age from Death why do

people go to a physician as soon as

there is some disease devote

they want to get well Shila prup yes and

ultimately they do not want to die but

even if you have the best position death

will eventually come in any case then

where is the solution to the problem of

death still people accept science as the

solution to all their problems therefore

the shrimat bhagavatam Kanto 2 3: 19

[Music]

says

pasu those who are like dogs Hogs camels

and asses praise leaders who are also

like animals both the leaders and their

followers are animals none of them is a

human being the big animal Bluffs I have

done so much for you and I promise to do

more give me your vote and the small

animal thinks yes he has done so much

for me let me vote for him this is going

on

andha one blind man is leading another

blind man what is the use if I am blind

and I say come follow me and I shall

take you to Melbourne as soon as we go

in the road I will be killed and you

will also be killed that's all devotee

Shila prup sometimes when we tell people

this life is full of miseries they say

what do you mean there are high points

and low points but basically I am a

happy person Shea prup that is their

foolishness they cannot distinguish

misery from happiness they are being

kicked by material nature the agent of

Krishna because they are Desiring in

various ways to become controllers or

enjoyers they are being offered various

types of bodies and suffering repeated

birth and death but because people have

no sense they think this material life

is

pleasurable now as Australians you may

have so many nice facilities but you

cannot enjoy them

perpetually by the force of nature you

will have to change your position

today you may be living in a nice

apartment and tomorrow you may become a

rat in that apartment it is not in your

power to change the strong laws of

nature you must change your position

actually everyone is being controlled by

the material nature at every moment so

an intelligent person asks how to get

out of this material nature how to end

the suffering of repeat Ed Birth oldage

disease and

death and Krishna explains how to end

the suffering in bhagat Gita verse

[Music]

7.14 as soon as the Rascal surrenders to

me he's out of the control of my

material nature surrendering to Krishna

is real intelligence

modern times Vic perspective chapter 4

on service the soul and the

Supreme the following exchange between

his divine grace AC bakti Vantas Swami

prup and a Jesuit priest took place in

May

1975 at the H Krishna center in

Melbourne priest do you have what I

might call a train in

contemplation sha prup we worship God in

nine ways one is maram remembering God's

activities that is

contemplation priest you know in

Christian mysticism we have a process of

contemplation that St Teresa of Aila

described in her book interior Mansion

anybody is able to make an ordinary

prayer but the the real Mystic prayer is

not given to everyone sha prup our

Mystic prayer is to think of God's

activities anyone can do it priest ours

is not so much thinking of God's

activities as just being open to receive

love getting to that real Stillness and

quiet in which Sheila prup no devotional

service or bti yoga is not Stillness

Stillness is the neutral stage of love

of God when you stop your material

activities priest could you further

describe this

neutrality Shila prup it is simply the

stage of realizing that God is great

that is neutrality but real devotional

service begins when one understands

because God is so great I should serve

him why am I uselessly rendering service

to this world why not render service to

God that stage is called dasam or

servitude that is the beginning of bti

yoga material activity simply entangles

Us in the repetition of birth and death

This is called prti Marga activity for

sense

enjoyment everyone is busy working for

sense enjoyment the tiger is busy the is

busy the dog is busy and if a man also

becomes busy for sense enjoyment like

the Tigers and Hogs and dogs then in his

next life he may become one of those

species of Life priest when one reaches

a higher stage of activity when he

really loves all mankind Shila prup that

is a concoction mental

speculation why should you love only

mankind why not love the Tigers the dogs

and all other species of Life priest

because human beings are my brothers and

sisters Shila prup but the Tigers and

dogs are also your brothers and sisters

because you all have a common father God

Lord Krishna says in the bhagwat Gita

verse

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58

priest what does that mean Shila prup

that a truly learned man sees every

living being with equal Vision in other

words he doesn't make any spiritual

distinction between you and a dog you

have a soul that is covered by a human

body and a dog has a soul covered by a

dog dog's body but both of you are Souls

part and parcel of God priest would you

say that souls are of different values

Sheila prup no All Souls are of the same

value priest that I find hard to accept

because as I understand it the soul of

man is Immortal but the soul of an

animal is not an animal's soul is not

really a soul at all but the principle

of Life something Aristotle called a

psyche therefore man has higher value

than the

animals sha PR no spiritually they are

of equal value although materially their

bodies may be of different gradations it

is just like the different gradations of

Motorcars a man sitting in a Rolls-Royce

thinks he's very important and a man

sitting in a Ford or Chevrolet thinks

he's poor but as men both of them are

equal similarly the body of a human

being and the body of a dog are just

different machines but the souls are of

the same quality part and partiel of the

Supreme Soul

Krishna priest that is hard to

understand that my soul and your soul

are part of the Supreme Soul because the

Supreme soul is infinite and we are

finite therefore we cannot added up

together make God sha prup no I don't

say that we are finite and God is

infinite If All Souls were combined

together they would still be finite not

infinite 90 billion zeros cannot make

one so I don't say that combined

together we shall be equal to God but

the quality of God is there in All Souls

God God is like the vast ocean and we

are like drops of ocean water the drops

contain the same chemicals as the vast

ocean but in minute degree priest so we

have God's qualities in

imitation Shila prup not imitation

Actually All Souls do have God's

qualities just as a particle of gold has

the same qualities as the gold in the

mine a small fragment of gold is

certainly gold but it is not equal to

All the Gold in the gold mind so our

philosophy is

a the inconceivable simultaneous Oneness

and difference of God and his

energies in other words we are one with

God in quality but different from him in

quantity God has creative power and we

also Al have creative power but God has

created millions of planets that float

in space and we have created the 747

that floats in the air yet we want to

take more credit priest that is the sin

of Pride Shila prup yes that is false

Pride modern scientists are taking false

pride in their accomplishments and

saying there is no need of God

there is no God we can do everything

this is their

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foolishness

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