Asking Google Engineering Manager How To Get Hired
Summary
TLDRIn this video, an engineering manager at Google shares insights on the current job market's challenges, emphasizing the importance of continuous learning and staying technically sharp. Despite the abundance of information on platforms like YouTube, distinguishing oneself in interviews and the job market requires going beyond basics. The manager advises focusing on growth over promotions, learning from mistakes, and being prepared for the dynamic software industry. They also discuss the impact of AI on jobs, suggesting a strong foundation in basics is essential, and soft skills become increasingly valuable as one advances in their career.
Takeaways
- π **Self-Education is Key**: You don't necessarily need to attend a university to learn computer science; platforms like YouTube offer comprehensive learning resources.
- π **Market Challenges**: The current job market is tough with many applicants and fewer openings, making it harder to secure a job compared to previous years.
- πΌ **Employer's Market**: It's currently an employer's market, meaning employers have many options and are likely to choose the most experienced candidates.
- π **Stay Technically Sharp**: Regardless of your current job status, continuously work on side projects and stay updated with the latest technologies.
- π **System Design Importance**: Basic system design knowledge is expected; what differentiates candidates is their ability to drive the design conversation and demonstrate leadership.
- π **Excel Beyond Basics**: To stand out, go beyond basic knowledge and demonstrate a deep understanding, including technology choices and nuances.
- π **Continuous Learning**: Focus on continuous learning and growth rather than just seeking promotions; this approach will serve you better in the long run.
- π **Adaptability**: Be prepared to unlearn and relearn as the software industry is dynamic and changes rapidly.
- π **Resume and Skills**: A strong resume and good knowledge of data structures, algorithms, and system design are table stakes for getting a job in the current market.
- β° **Timing is Important**: Given the current tough market conditions, it might be wise to stay in your current job and prepare for future opportunities rather than job-hopping.
Q & A
What is the current job market situation according to the interviewee?
-The current job market is tough with fewer openings and more competition. Employers have many options and are choosing the most experienced candidates, making it harder for new graduates and those seeking senior roles.
What advice does the interviewee give to those looking to break into big tech companies?
-To break into big tech, one should stay on top of their game, be technically proficient, and always be ready for interviews. It's also important to stay current with industry trends and continue learning to stand out from the competition.
Why does the interviewee suggest that one doesn't need to go to school for computer science?
-The interviewee suggests that for computer science, especially software programming jobs, the whole university curriculum is available on platforms like YouTube. Therefore, formal education is not the only way to acquire knowledge, but what sets individuals apart is what they do beyond that.
What does the interviewee mean by 'driving the system design' in an interview?
-When 'driving the system design' in an interview, the interviewee refers to taking a leadership role in the conversation, providing detailed insights, and showcasing a deep understanding of technology and its application, which can help differentiate candidates in a competitive job market.
How does the interviewee define growth in a career?
-Growth in a career is defined by the interviewee as moving beyond one's comfort zone, continuously learning, and challenging oneself to acquire new skills and knowledge that were not previously known or utilized.
What is the interviewee's perspective on job hopping in the current market?
-In the current tough job market, the interviewee advises staying put if one has a job and is comfortable. It's not the best time to job hop as it may lead to downleveling or lower salaries due to the employer's market.
How does the interviewee view the impact of AI on the software industry?
-The interviewee views AI as a phase of disruption similar to the introduction of calculators. They believe that understanding the basics and having strong foundational knowledge will always be valuable, and those who grasp the fundamentals will always be needed in the industry.
What advice does the interviewee have for engineers starting their careers?
-For those starting their careers, the interviewee advises focusing on understanding computer science fundamentals, staying curious, and continuously learning. They also emphasize the importance of being able to handle ambiguous problems and scope them down effectively.
What does the interviewee mean by 'writing systems and debugging systems' as a senior engineer?
-The interviewee uses 'writing systems and debugging systems' as a metaphor for the responsibilities of a senior engineer, which involves designing and optimizing complex systems rather than just writing and debugging code like a junior engineer.
How does the interviewee suggest one should approach career growth?
-The interviewee suggests approaching career growth by focusing on what one could not do five years ago and how to leverage their experience to contribute at a higher level. It's about differentiating oneself by taking on responsibilities that junior engineers cannot handle.
What is the interviewee's view on the importance of soft skills in the software industry?
-The interviewee highlights the importance of soft skills such as communication, leadership, and the ability to handle tough situations and conflicts, stating that these skills become increasingly valuable as one grows in their career.
Outlines
π Education and Job Market Realities
The paragraph discusses the current job market for computer science graduates and the importance of self-learning through platforms like YouTube. The speaker emphasizes that while there are not enough job openings, one can impress interviewers by showcasing their skills and knowledge acquired outside of traditional education. The interviewee, Derra, an engineering manager at Google with 20 years of experience, shares insights on the hiring process, the impact of market conditions on job seekers, and the increased competition for positions. He advises job seekers to stay technically sharp and engaged in side projects to remain competitive in the job market.
π Advancing in the Software Industry
This section of the script focuses on how to stand out in a competitive job market. Derra suggests that while basic system design knowledge is essential, it's not enough to differentiate oneself. He recommends going beyond the basics to demonstrate leadership and depth of knowledge during interviews. The conversation also touches on the importance of continuous learning and the challenges faced by new graduates. Derra shares his thoughts on the current job market, advising individuals to stay in their current positions if they are stable, due to the tough market conditions. He also discusses the impact of AI on the industry and the importance of understanding the basics and having strong problem-solving skills.
π Career Growth and Adaptability
The final paragraph covers career growth in the tech industry, with Derra providing advice for engineers at various stages of their careers. He stresses the importance of understanding one's role at different levels within a company and the need to demonstrate skills that justify one's experience and seniority. Derra also talks about the cyclical nature of the job market and encourages individuals to stay put during tough times, focusing on learning and readiness for future opportunities. He concludes with the idea that a career in tech is a marathon, not a sprint, and that consistent growth and learning are key to long-term success.
Mindmap
Keywords
π‘Computer Science
π‘Interviewers
π‘Engineering Manager
π‘Hiring Freezes
π‘Market Conditions
π‘Side Projects
π‘System Design
π‘Promotion
π‘AI
π‘Job Stability
π‘Career Growth
Highlights
You don't necessarily need to go to school for computer science, as resources like YouTube offer free, comprehensive education.
Today's job market is tough, with more candidates than job openings, particularly due to layoffs from the previous year.
In this competitive job market, employers are likely to pick more experienced candidates, often hiring them at lower levels.
To break into Big Tech, itβs essential to stay current and continuously improve your skills, even when you're not actively interviewing.
Keep working on side projects to maintain technical sharpness, even if you already have a job.
The basics of system design, like setting up a client, load balancer, and database, are now considered standard knowledge for candidates.
What sets senior-level candidates apart is their ability to take leadership and communicate advanced technical insights during interviews.
Focusing on continuous growth and learning is more important than racing toward promotions or new job titles.
Rushing through promotions can backfire, leading to being down-leveled when switching jobs due to lack of broader skills.
Understanding the core fundamentals of software engineering remains essential, even in the age of AI.
Despite the rise of AI, having a deep grasp of the basics will help you navigate challenges that AI tools alone canβt solve.
In tough economic phases, it may be wise to stay at your current job and focus on learning, instead of experimenting with job hopping.
AI will likely become a standard part of work processes, but mastering communication, problem-scoping, and leadership will be key differentiators.
To grow in your career, you need to transition from executing tasks to solving higher-level system challenges and mentoring junior engineers.
As you gain experience, focus on roles where you can apply your knowledge to manage teams or systems, not just code.
Transcripts
you actually don't need to go to school
you know especially for computer science
I would say people uh looking for jobs
there not enough openings today's case
what happens is you go to YouTube the
whole university is right there so
that's where I feel you'll be able to
impress interviewers more and then you
change a job or something and then you
are down leveled why two decade back
when I started my journey so we're back
on Google campus if you guys remember I
interviewed durra in person that's where
we met actually and I thought I'd come
back because he's an engineering manager
so we can get some insights from him
today so why don't you just go ahead and
introduce yourself first yeah hey folks
uh my name is darra uh I'm an
engineering manager here at Google uh in
the Google Cloud org 20 years of work
experience in the software industry for
the last decade or so I've been working
as an engineering manager in various
capacities worked at startups big
companies small companies so cool yeah
well let's start with a media question
you know hiring freezes layoffs it seems
like it's really hard to get a job these
days is that true from I mean managing
perspective at Big Tech and then maybe
more importantly how do we kind of break
through it it is true I mean the market
is uh kind of tough um these days I
coach and Mentor a lot of folks and um
the temperature I'm getting from outside
is bit less you know people are looking
for jobs there not enough openings um
you know last year's layoff is not yet
healed properly fully yet so uh yes it
is uh kind of tough you know people are
I mean employers are getting lot many
options and they're choosing the best
most appropriate so it's not as easy as
it was uh like 2022 and I'm hearing that
it's biased towards seniority so it's
it's it's very hard for new grads a lot
of people are looking for senior roles
well I I wouldn't say exactly that but
the point is for every level right you
need people at every level uh but the
point is there are too much competition
and I'm not sure you know I'm not not
done a market study to see that
seniority maybe you're right uh but at
the same time they scarcity right so
basically it's employer market so if
given 10 resumes you know you would
obviously pick the more experience and
sort of hire them at a lower level if
you will that's how employers Market
behave so sure so the next question is
do you have any advice like let's say
you're back in the market recruiting and
you could tailor this to maybe like a
great Market or maybe the current market
when you're trying to break into big
Tech like how would you advise people to
do that yeah I think a general thing is
you want to be on top of your game right
that's number one so you don't want to
just prepare for interviews at the time
of interview and then you know get a job
and after that you sort of you know get
into this Loop of delivering things but
you know you lose your touch and that's
what I recommend I myself you know
that's one of the reasons I teach uh the
courses I teach is to stay current stay
very technical is to sort of always be
ready right and that's what I would
advise if you have gotten a job still do
some side side projects deliver at your
workplace no questions you know you
don't want to uh slack over U there at
all but at the same time just don't
relax and just in this economy in this
in fact our profession software industry
itself is pretty Dynamic so you want to
be able to always be able to sort of
unlearn and learn multiple times sure so
you don't want to just slack back that's
the only advice I would give you but of
course you know other popular advices we
already know what to do and things like
that but maybe we can talk about that in
detail but sure that's that's the number
one thing I would say yeah that makes
sense so I think a lot of people know
that you know resume is really important
make sure DSA is really good system
design like all these things you have to
do it it almost feels like that's table
Stakes without that you can't get the
job but there's a lot of people that
practice hard they study hard they do
all of that but there's still so many
candidates there's only so many openings
and this Market even less now that
you've been in the industry 20 years to
all these people that are trying doing
all these things but it's not working
like what else is there something you
might have learned through your
experience that can help them out yeah
very good question so this is my take on
it right I I've been pondering about
this question so think about it like a
two decade back when I started my
journey yeah there less information out
there in the public only books uh were
the only source of information there was
no YouTube right things were not even
born that time uh so it was harder uh to
start off you know acquire the knowledge
but then if one who acquired the
knowledge had an edge today's case what
happens is you go to YouTube the whole
university is right there yeah you
actually don't need to go to school you
know especially for computer science I I
would say uh especially for you know
software programming jobs but the point
is that is available for everyone yeah
what do you do beyond that is what
counts because that's how you'll be able
to differentiate sure so one of the
things is let's say system design let's
talk about that right so system design
if you say if you're able to put basic
things together a client a load balancer
ABS server and database and things like
that no SQL SE this is table sck
everybody knows it this is basic
expectations people are not even
questioning you there right now people
are thinking about how do you drive it
right so you can clear the system design
interview but at the same time which
seniority will you be bucketed that is
determined upon how do you drive it do
you take more leadership right there
conversation like for example at a staff
level you may be expected to sort of
teach me something yeah right I'm also
at the similar level I'm hiring can you
teach me something can I learn something
from you right there in the interview do
I do I see something that probably is
the bar right for senior candidates also
are you talking about much detail are
you talking about technology as well you
use redis or you know other technology
why do you have familiarity do you have
any Nuance thing there or are you
talking in general stuff right so that's
where I feel you'll be able to impress
the interview interviewers more you got
to have an edge the competition is high
you how would you outrun them is the
only way no that makes sense thank
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now let's get back to the video I think
another way to think about this is
through our careers we all make mistakes
and so I'm sure there's things you could
have done differently some people are
looking for advice so they don't make
those same mistakes if you refer back to
your own career or maybe careers of
other people you've mentored are there
glaring issues you've seen that you're
like oh maybe we shouldn't do that or
like think about things a little
differently that could help people it's
it's a broad question but couple of
thoughts which come to me I'll I'll
share that yeah so one of the thing is
you know some people are just focused on
going to the next level getting promoted
as fast as possible it's like after
sometime there's not much growth I mean
there are only 10 levels A to Z right if
you talk about the software to senior
and staff and Senior staff and principal
and whatnot only 7 8 10 levels how where
else will go if every you do it's not
possible right number one number two is
rather than focusing on going to the
next level focus on growing to the next
level because that is otherwise what
will happen is you keep climbing up and
then you change a job or something and
then you are down leveled why because
probably you know in your comfort zone
you actually got uh you know to climb up
the ladder and got promoted maybe maybe
that's the situation because you know
context so very well you go to another
company you probably will have to learn
quite a bit uh the point which I always
tell people is always focus on learning
don't focus on the levels of the
promotion of course there are a lot of
things tied to it uh you know money is
tied to it the autonomy is tied to it
you know and things like that leadership
is tight to it got it but at the same
time you want to make sure that you're
growing you're challenging yourself you
are making yourself throw yourself a bit
in the uncomfort zone and figure out
what can you learn from it because at
the staff level there's no mercy there's
a system design question let's say or a
or a programming question dynamic
programming very tough question there's
no mercy you you got to know this you
got to know this you got to have
behavioral I mean everything and there's
no mercy and I've been there and I feel
like at junior level they may say that
okay it was a good coder but he didn't
have this experience uh you know let her
learn uh it's fine we want to hire with
this situation of course no more mercy
so that that's uh something which I
would say keep learning keep figuring
out what can you learn how would you
grow yourself yeah because in totality
if you don't have people skills soft
skills communication skills hard you
know tough design problems tough
situation conflict all these things we
many times talk about that it is
relevant for as you grow senior staff
you know you may need those skills as
well sure back in the day we had Legacy
Industries where people were very loyal
they'd work 20e career at one company
then we got to like the 2015s 2020s
where it was like move every one year
two year three year start up to start up
to start up and now we're in this kind
of weird place where either because of
layoffs people are scared to move or
people just like are forced out what do
you think of the current market do you
think it's optimal to keep jumping do
you think you should stay like how do
you consider that in your own career our
industry goes through the cycles and
this is one of those low phase right and
I'm sure Market will be better um I'm
Optimist um so 2018 happened you know
and all these things will happen it's a
cycle so it'll get better but at the
same time what I would say is around
this time uh Market is really tough yeah
right we know that it'll be it'll get
better so so the point is I think this
is the time where you should stay put
okay right uh there's no point in just
going out if you have a job if you're
comfortable there stay there it's not
the time to really go out there it's
employer market so you probably will get
down leveled or uh salary will be low
and I don't know what all will happen if
you just go out there there's no point
in experimenting if you can stay put for
a year or so do that okay right and but
but just don't sit there you know just
make sure that you're always ready make
sure that you're always learning make
sure that when the time comes right if
you wanted to change if you really were
seeing some Gap and you had the intent
go out and change it doesn't have to be
today uh because the market is obviously
going through its tough phase right so
let it pass yeah um Switching gears a
little bit with the age of AI you know
we went from a time where every wanted
to study CS now people are like is there
even a point like is am I going to have
a job how has AI affected your job do
you use it on your team are you worried
about it yeah I I'm I'm worried but at
the same time I think it's all a phase
like you know when the calculators came
in there was a disruption right teachers
were worried about it things like that
anything comes suddenly there's always a
shock and that's what we are
experiencing through AI just came in
very suddenly sort of last year it
shocked us oh this I don't have to
really write put a lot of thought around
writing you can just put a tonality to
it and I get a this thing that thing you
know all these things are happening I
think people are still understanding the
power of AI application which is around
AI that's still happening we do use you
know of course in our dogs and a lot of
places emails we have been seeing that
you know there are a lot of places where
it is the embedded yeah it'll be part of
life that's how I see it but I think the
person who will win in this race or
person who will always have an Ed is a
person who thinks Basics will never go
away right if you are is going higher
and higher level there is a there is a
bigger challenge people just float in
the higher level of space where they
don't understand the very Basics yeah so
chat GPD or uh you know Gemini if you
use them you'll always be floating in a
very high level of thing and if that
doesn't work you don't know what to do
and it happened with me I just give you
very analogy a good analogy there people
don't know how to behave when there is
this thing is taken away from them that
should be the case understand why things
are behaving the way are behaving just
don't fly in a very upper layer where
you don't understand yeah so that's what
I would say those those are the people
who will always be needed yeah apart
from the communication skill apart from
the you know you have a problem can you
take that problem ambiguous problem
Define it properly scope it down
properly I think that is a skill which
will be valuable which which will be
more and more needed and then last
question so you know we figur out how to
get a job we battled AI we're actually
good with it now we we we got there
we're in big Tech or some startup and we
want to grow our career it's a marathon
not a Sprint and we want to keep getting
promoted and doing better what advice
would you have to an engineer who's
maybe just starting out in their career
how should they kind of look at this
timeline every company has very
different uh set of uh rubric metrics
you know how do they think about level
one level two and so on and so forth
typically what you would see is you need
to know your CS fundamentals very very
well I recently wrote A Blog also I
think that's a good reference we can
take a look I teach uh courses as well
on this career guidance but really if
you see if you go to the higher level
what you're doing is you are thinking
like uh so I'll give you a simple
analogy a developer software developer
what they do is they write code and
debug code a senior or a staff engineer
they write systems and debug systems a
manager wres team and debugs teams and a
director or a you know senior level
manager they write orgs and debug orgs
so to speak right so that's the thing
you want to be able to grow to the next
level thinking about it how are you uh
doing something which a junior engineer
cannot do you need to be able to
differentiate that's your growth you're
able to take ambiguous problems scope it
down very very clearly hand it over to
uh junior Engineers that they can imp
mented right you need to be able to play
your role if you're still doing the
junior Engineers job then you make
yourself redundant what's the point of
having 5 7 10 years of experience when
you can't use it leverage it and play a
higher role I think there are a lot of
details here uh which I'm skipping
obviously but uh but that's what you
need to remember what are you doing
which 5 years back you couldn't do mhm
what about these 5 years of experience
what can you infer from this and do to
the next level awesome thank you this
has been so great thanks for taking the
time yeah absolutely cool
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