Visual Persuasion in the Digital Age: Webinar with Edward Schiappa

Summary

In this MIT Sloan Executive Education webinar, Professor Ed Schiappa explores the power of visual persuasion in the digital age. He discusses the rapid processing and strong memory retention of visual stimuli, emphasizing that in today's media-saturated world, images often carry more weight than words. Schiappa highlights the importance of understanding how non-verbal cues and visual elements can shape perceptions and influence decisions, both in personal branding and in marketing strategies. He also touches on cultural sensitivities and the evolution of visual communication, encouraging viewers to critically assess their own online presence and adapt their visual messaging accordingly.

Takeaways

• 🎤 The webinar is part of the Innovation@Work series by MIT Sloan Executive Education, focusing on communication and persuasion in the digital age.
• 🏫 Ed Schiappa, a faculty member at MIT, discusses the importance of non-verbal communication in expressing identity and its impact on persuasion.
• 📸 Professional photographs convey different messages based on the subject's pose, gaze, and expression, influencing perceptions of approachability and competence.
• 🧠 Dual coding theory suggests that verbal and non-verbal messages are processed differently in the brain, with visual stimuli often having a stronger and more immediate impact.
• 🌐 In the digital era, visual content is considered more impactful and memorable than text, making it 'king' in online communication.
• 💡 Evocative stimuli in visual messages can elicit strong emotional responses, which can be leveraged for effective persuasion in advertising and branding.
• 🌍 Cultural and geographical differences can influence the interpretation of visual cues, emphasizing the need for understanding the target audience's context.
• 📊 Audience polling and feedback can provide valuable insights into how personal or corporate images are perceived, guiding adjustments for better representation.
• 🎬 Advertisements and other media content serve as powerful examples of visual persuasion techniques, showcasing how images and少量文字 can convey complex ideas and emotions.
• 🔍 Analyzing one's own online presence and the visual representation of oneself or one's business is crucial for effective self-promotion and brand building.

Q & A

What is the main focus of the Innovation@Work webinar series by MIT Sloan Executive Education?

The main focus of the Innovation@Work webinar series is to bring content and ideas from MIT Sloan faculty, who teach executive education programs, to a wider audience.

How does Ed Schiappa's course on Communication and Persuasion in the Digital Age relate to the webinar's theme?

Ed Schiappa's course is relevant to the webinar's theme as it explores how communication and persuasion are affected in the digital age, including the impact of visual and verbal cues in online and media contexts.

What does the poll about Ed's photos during the webinar demonstrate about visual communication?

The poll demonstrates that visual images can significantly influence perceptions and decisions, as participants quickly made judgments about Ed's photos based on their appearance and inferred professionalism and approachability.

What are the three key lessons Ed Schiappa wants participants to take away from the webinar?

The three key lessons are: 1) Visual and verbal communication should be considered as different media; 2) Visual is particularly powerful in the digital era; and 3) Mediated identity is perceived as real identity.

How does the concept of 'dual coding' relate to visual persuasion?

The concept of dual coding suggests that our brains process verbal and nonverbal information differently, and that visual messages can have a more significant impact because they are often processed more quickly and remembered more strongly.

What is the significance of evocative stimuli in visual persuasion?

Evocative stimuli are visual or auditory elements that elicit specific emotional responses. They are significant in visual persuasion because they help establish an emotional connection between the viewer and the message, making the persuasion more effective.

How does Ed Schiappa use the example of John Kirby's photos to illustrate the importance of audience understanding?

Ed uses John Kirby's photos to show that different people may interpret the same image differently based on their familiarity with the subject or their personal biases. This highlights the need for unbiased feedback to accurately assess how one's images are perceived.

What is the role of cultural differences in interpreting visual messages?

Cultural differences can significantly affect the interpretation of visual messages. While some elements like basic facial expressions are universal, others like body language, colors, and symbols can have different meanings across cultures, requiring communicators to be aware of their audience's cultural background.

How does the webinar suggest improving one's online image or self-representation?

The webinar suggests seeking honest feedback from colleagues or a diverse focus group that can provide unbiased opinions on one's online image. It emphasizes the importance of understanding how one's visual representation may be perceived by different audiences.

What is the main takeaway from the discussion about the Daisy commercial and its impact?

The main takeaway is that visual messages, like the Daisy commercial, can evoke strong emotional responses and have a persuasive impact without the need for verbal claims, illustrating the power of visual persuasion in communicating a message.

Outlines

00:00

🎤 Introduction and Webinar Overview

Dr. Peter Hirst introduces the 10th edition of the Innovation@Work webinar series by MIT Sloan Executive Education, highlighting the record number of attendees. He introduces Ed Schiappa, a faculty member at MIT and creator of the new Communication and Persuasion in the Digital Age Executive Education course, who will focus on the role of communication and persuasion in the digital era.

05:02

📸 The Power of Visual Imagery in Communication

Professor Ed Schiappa discusses the impact of visual imagery on communication, emphasizing how quickly and instinctively we make judgments based on images. He uses a live poll to demonstrate audience preferences for different photographs, highlighting the professional, approachable, and competent image that photo C projects compared to the other options. He also explores the idea that we make inferences from images, which carry less data but still convey significant messages.

10:03

🧠 Visual and Verbal Communication Channels

Ed Schiappa explains the importance of considering visual and verbal communication as distinct channels, with the brain processing them differently. He argues that visual communication is particularly powerful in the digital age due to its rapid processing and stronger memory retention. He introduces the concept of 'dual coding,' where verbal and nonverbal messages are combined for more effective persuasion.

15:05

🌐 The Impact of Evocative Visual Stimuli

The discussion shifts to the concept of evocative stimuli—visual or auditory elements that elicit emotional responses. Schiappa emphasizes the persuasive power of pairing a product or service with evocative images to create an emotional bond. He references Tony Schwartz's work, particularly the famous Daisy commercial, to illustrate how emotional responses can be leveraged for persuasion.

20:06

🎩 The Role of Mediated Identity in Perception

Schiappa delves into the idea that our mediated identity—how we present ourselves through media—becomes our real identity in the minds of others. He suggests that we form attitudes and judgments about individuals or characters based on their mediated presence, such as attractiveness, trustworthiness, likeability, and predictability. He uses examples of public figures and fictional characters to illustrate how these judgments are made and how they influence our perceptions.

25:07

📸 Assessing Personal and Professional Imagery

The conversation focuses on the importance of assessing personal and professional imagery, especially in a business context. Schiappa advises viewers to seek unbiased opinions on their online images to ensure they convey the intended message. He also touches on the concept of 'head tilt' in photography and its potential impact on perceived assertiveness and approachability, noting cultural and gender differences.

30:08

🎥 The Semantics and Syntax of Visual Language

Schiappa explores the grammar of images, discussing how they can be linked to create positive or negative associations, imply causation, create analogies, and present dilemmas. He uses examples from commercials to illustrate these points, emphasizing the persuasive power of visual language when combined with auditory elements like music and voiceovers.

35:08

🏛️ The Power of Visual Persuasion in Advertising

The presentation concludes with a discussion on the power of visual persuasion in advertising, using contrasting ads from Ronald Reagan's re-election campaign and a negative ad from the 2012 election to demonstrate how visual elements can be manipulated to evoke specific responses. Schiappa emphasizes the importance of understanding dual coding and encourages viewers to consider how they can apply these concepts to enhance their online presence and professional image.

40:10

🤔 Q&A and Final Thoughts

The Q&A session addresses the application of visual communication lessons from advertising to professional and business contexts. Schiappa suggests using video as a powerful medium for training and morale boosting, and emphasizes the importance of tailoring visual messages to the audience's culture and biases. He also discusses the universality of facial expressions and the need to consider cultural differences in nonverbal communication.

Keywords

💡Communication and Persuasion

A central theme of the video, communication and persuasion refers to the process of influencing others' attitudes or behaviors through various channels. In the context of the video, it emphasizes the power of non-verbal and visual cues in digital media, and how these elements can shape perceptions and elicit responses.

💡Dual Coding

Dual coding is a cognitive theory suggesting that the brain processes verbal and nonverbal information differently. In the video, it is used to explain why visual messages can be more impactful and memorable than verbal ones, as they engage different parts of the brain and can evoke stronger emotional responses.

💡Visual Persuasion

Visual persuasion refers to the use of images and visual elements to influence or change attitudes, beliefs, or behaviors. The video highlights the importance of visual persuasion in the digital age, where images can convey complex messages and emotions more effectively than words.

💡Professional Image

A professional image refers to the visual representation of oneself in a professional context, often used for personal branding or business purposes. The video discusses the impact of one's professional image on web presence and how it can influence perceptions of attractiveness, trustworthiness, and competence.

💡Cultural Differences

Cultural differences refer to the variations in beliefs, customs, and practices among different societies or groups. In the context of the video, it relates to how visual messages are interpreted differently across cultures and how these differences can affect the effectiveness of visual persuasion.

💡Evocative Stimuli

Evocative stimuli are visual or auditory elements designed to elicit a specific emotional response from the viewer. In the video, it is explained that pairing persuasive messages with evocative stimuli can create a strong emotional tie, making the message more memorable and impactful.

💡Mediated Identity

Mediated identity refers to the persona or image that individuals or characters present through media channels. The video emphasizes that these mediated identities can be as influential and 'real' as face-to-face interactions, shaping public perception and opinion.

💡Nonverbal Cues

Nonverbal cues are gestures, facial expressions, body language, and other forms of communication that convey information without the use of words. In the video, nonverbal cues are discussed as crucial elements in visual communication that can significantly influence the interpretation and persuasive impact of a message.

💡Digital Era

The digital era refers to the current period of time characterized by the widespread use of digital technology and the internet. In the video, the digital era is highlighted as a time where visual content has become particularly dominant in communication and persuasion.

💡Aesthetics

Aesthetics refers to the collective set of principles underlying the design and appreciation of beauty or art. In the context of the video, it relates to how the visual presentation of content, including color schemes, composition, and style, can affect the persuasive power of a message.

Highlights

Dr. Peter Hirst introduces the 10th MIT Sloan Executive Education Innovation@Work webinar series, emphasizing the record-breaking 2,000 people registered for the event.

Professor Ed Schiappa discusses the importance of non-verbal communication and how it shapes identity in the digital age.

A live poll is conducted to decide on the best photo for Professor Schiappa's web page, with photo C being the majority choice.

Peter Hirst and Ed Schiappa analyze the subconscious inferences made from professional photographs, such as approachability and competence.

The concept of 'dual coding' is introduced, explaining how our brains process verbal and non-verbal information differently and its impact on persuasion.

The discussion highlights the shift from the 'Gutenberg parenthesis' to the visual dominance in the digital era, emphasizing the power of visual stimuli.

Professor Schiappa explains the impact of evocative stimuli in visual media, such as ads, and how they can elicit emotional responses to influence persuasion.

The conversation includes an analysis of a Folgers coffee commercial, demonstrating the use of storytelling and emotional imagery to create brand associations.

The webinar addresses the concept of 'mediated identity' and how it can be as influential as real-life interactions in shaping perceptions and judgments.

Professor Schiappa discusses the snap judgments people make about attractiveness, trustworthiness, likeability, and predictability based on mediated images.

The importance of visual and verbal communication as different media is emphasized, with a focus on the rapid and impactful nature of visual processing.

The discussion includes a look at the syntax and semantics of visual language, exploring how images can be linked and used to imply causality or create analogies.

Two contrasting political ads from different eras are analyzed, showcasing the use of visual language in shaping public perception and the power of visual persuasion.

Professor Schiappa offers practical advice on assessing online images, emphasizing the value of candid feedback from colleagues.

The Q&A session delves into the application of visual persuasion principles in professional and business contexts, including the use of video and cultural considerations.

The webinar concludes with a call to action for participants to evaluate their online representation and the images they project in the digital space.

Transcripts

- [Azhar] It is now my pleasure to turn the webcast over to

Dr. Peter Hirst, Executive Director,

MIT Sloan Executive Education.

Dr. Hirst, the floor's yours.

- [Peter] Thank you very much, Azhar.

Welcome everybody to, what I believe, is the 10th

in our Innovation@Work webinar series

from MIT Sloan Executive Education,

where we bring you content and ideas

from some of our faculty

teaching our executive education programs.

We have over 2,000 people registered for this webinar today.

I think that's a record.

So welcome to you all wherever you may be in the world,

I hope it's a little less snowy and cold

than we are here in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Ed Schiappa, Professor Ed Schiappa,

is a faculty member at MIT

who teaches in our Communication and Persuasion

in the Digital Age Executive Education course.

He's also Professor and Head of

Comparative Media Studies and Writing

in MIT's School of Humanities and Social Sciences.

This is a new course that Ed has created with us

in the last year.

We're very excited about it.

And I'm even more excited that today,

Ed is joining us to really focus

in one particular aspect of this idea

of communication and persuasion.

And with that I would like to hand over the microphone

to Ed, and take it away please.

- [Ed] Well, thank you, Peter.

I'm kind of looking at the slide here

and the picture of me is a little odd looking.

May be the way to get started here is

since we have so many people with us,

helping us right now,

they can help me make a decision because I really need to

update the photo on my web page.

And so if you will look at the slide, folks.

We are gonna push out a little poll question here.

And you can see the four pictures available.

A, B, C an D.

And may be you could give me your advice

on which one you think would be the best one

for me to use on my website.

Could everybody just take a minute to fill out that poll?

Great.

And then Azhar if you could show us

the results of that poll,

I'd be interested in seeing what people have to say.

Whoa. Okay.

Very interesting, very interesting.

So as you can see there,

the vast majority of people preferred photo C.

And with A coming in a somewhat distant second,

and then B and D really coming in last.

Now, Peter, it's not practical for me to interview

the people who answered that poll.

But I'm wondering if I could use you as

a, sort of, a one person focus group.

- [Peter] Sure.

- [Ed] Why do you think they went with C?

- [Peter] I would say C looks professional,

serious, still approachable.

I think that B and D which came last,

in B you look rather startled,

(Ed laughing)

and you're sort of not very approachable.

In D, I think maybe you look rather informal.

And actually I might have voted for A as well,

but perhaps your dress is a little casual

compared to a more professional headshot.

- [Ed] Now let me ask you

just a quick follow-up question there

because I agree with everything you said there.

But one of the things that judgments,

one of the judgments you were able to make

virtually immediately is,

which photo looked most professional.

But now you haven't been trained in that.

It's just something you, more and less,

I won't say instinctively because it's not an instinct,

but it's a learned habit of recognizing

what is a professional-looking photograph.

And I think what you said was is that,

photo C looked professional,

it looked serious, yet approachable.

Is there any other connotations for you

that the term professional implies?

Or is that pretty much it?

- [Peter] I guess I'll add competent

perhaps to that as well, but - Okay, okay.

- that's an inference that I've made from that

which, on the basis other than just looking at it.

- [Ed] But that's exactly how it works,

is we do make inferences based on images

which are far less data basically,

we're making a lot of inferences.

We're supplying a lot of information based on

the limited data that is coming from the photograph.

So photograph A which came in second,

doesn't score quite as well for you,

probably on those things that you said earlier,

might have come across, since I'm laughing in that picture,

that I'm not quite as serious.

And might that also connote less competence.

Okay.

So yeah, some very interesting things that we do there.

Everyone made a relatively snap judgment,

though we had an interesting variety of judgments.

The other thing that I want to mention about photograph D

is, 'cause I'm gonna come back

and talk later about the classic head tilt.

So people will just kinda notice the way

that my head is tilting in photograph D.

Photograph D is actually the only photograph here

that I made for this lecture.

All the others are, actually can be found in other places

in the web at some point or another.

All right.

So the point that I wanna make,

and this is gonna be one of the major things

we're gonna talk about today,

is how we express our identity non-verbally.

Because communication always begins with the sender.

Somebody who is sending out the message.

And that's true if you're communicating with someone

face-to-face, or over the phone, or over the video.

A video or on a web presence.

And your identity, however you represent that verbally,

visually, is the leading edge if you will, of your message.

It's part of your message.

And that's something that we're gonna see

throughout today's comments.

So there're basically,

I wanna start with three initial lessons

that are important for people to think about

in terms of visual persuasion in the digital age.

Number one is, to think of visual and verbal

literally as different media.

Different channels of communication

into people's minds if you will.

Now we know that language, verbal language is persuasive.

Any utterance is encouraging you to understand

some little aspect of the world in a particular way.

All language use is partial in that sense.

And all language use that we understand also tends to

encourage some kind of response.

So if I describe a tree being cut down

as environmental destruction, you're going to react

to that differently than if I talk about it as if it were

economic development.

So verbal language is always persuasive.

And that's an issue that,

I won't go into in any greater depth here,

but certainly in the Q&A, if people want to know,

I can give them a whole book that I basically wrote

on that particular topic.

And you can see in this particular slide,

a series of words, angry man for example.

But above it we have visual images.

And just as all verbal language is persuasive

in one way or another,

so too are visual messages,

at least if we understand them.

And by the way, I'm gonna be referring

occasionally to visual language,

both in terms of semantics,

like we do the meaning of words,

or grammar, syntax, the way we put words together.

And we'll see that they have an analogue

when it comes to visual persuasion.

And so visual images are,

if understood, in the same way

that language has to be understood, is persuasive.

So the reason I say that is because they're,

for people who do not understand English,

what I'm saying right now is not gonna be persuasive.

And that too has an analogue in visual images.

If you don't understand certain aspects

of the visual image that you're experiencing,

is not going to have a persuasive effect.

And we'll look at some specific examples of that

as we progress through the lecture.

Now the reason that visual persuasion is so important

is that, different parts of the brain are involved in

processing images versus words.

And we are constantly bombarded by visual stimuli.

And we decode, or comprehend that visual stimuli

very rapidly and without much thought.

So for example earlier when I asked Peter

about the opening slides, opening pictures,

he was able to make a snap judgment

and decode, if you will, four different images

with relatively little effort and time.

So I'd like to do the same thing very briefly here.

These are two pictures of a friend of mine, John Kirby,

who's a professor down at the University of Miami.

And I'd like to ask you, if I can call on you again, Peter,

which one of these photos do you prefer for say,

a professional web presence for John Kirby, and why.

Can I put you on the spot there?

- [Peter] Sure you can.

I find this one a little more difficult to call.

It would depend perhaps on the application.

I find the one on the left which is a little lighter,

to be very friendly and approachable.

And so perhaps if I was in sort of a sales,

interacting with someone in a sales role,

that might appeal to me.

I think the photo on the bottom right,

actually your friend looks a little almost devious

to me in that one (laughs).

And so, yeah, maybe there'd be some circumstances

where that would be appropriate.

But if it was wanting to do business,

perhaps I'd prefer the top left person.

- [Ed] Okay.

One thing that I have found over the years is that,

your familiarity with a particular subject matter

being portrayed, really does influence how you decode it.

So for example, when I look at that photo

on the lower right hand corner.

For me over the years I've always thought of him

looking rather coy in that photograph.

But I share these images with a number of groups of people

over the year and the term, you know, demonic

or slightly devilish, which by the way might be also

on target if you know John.

You know has come out a lot.

Some of that has to do with it is a darker image,

and his eyes are somewhat darkened in particular.

But the other thing that I would call your attention to

is that photograph on the left is a very direct gaze.

It is engaging you as an equal

and speaking to you, again, as an equal.

Whereas on the other one, there's something going on.

And part of what that something is,

maybe affected, like I said,

whether you know John or not,

but is affected by the fact that it's a head,

that there is, once again, a head tilt.

And that the eyes, in particular,

are portrayed differently.

Now later on in today's conversation,

I'm going to encourage people to think about

their own photographs, their own images that they represent

themselves with in the work environment,

and in particularly on the web.

But this conversation about my friend John here,

reminds us that we may not be our best audience

for analyzing the meaning of a particular image.

John might like that image on the right

because he sees certain things there

that other people may not.

So it's important when assessing the meaning of your images

that you put on the web to represent yourself,

that you have some unbiased people who are willing

to be frank with you about what they mean to them.

And what they are getting out of those particular images.

Okay.

The operational concept here that I,

a theoretical concept that I want to mention here is

the notion of dual coding.

Our brains have to essentially operate at two levels.

That we process verbal and nonverbal stimuli,

but we do so differently.

And we are sometimes not as consciously aware of

the kind of work that nonverbal messages may be doing to us

as we are verbal messages.

We know when, if you will, a salesperson comes up and says,

I'd like you to be interested

in this product, or this service,

but when we're watching television

or surfing the web or whatever,

the visual images are just sort of,

we often categorize that in our heads as entertainment.

And therefore if those messages have the opportunity

to do work on us, if you will, that we may not be

consciously aware of without taking some effort to realize,

oh yeah, they are after all trying to sell us something.

All right.

The second theme that I want to emphasize is that,

we've established that visual and verbal

are two different media.

Visual is king in the digital era.

That's the second point.

For a long period of time here,

we've been influenced by

Gutenberg's invention of the printing press.

And there are some theorists who have argued that

with the 21st century, late 20th and early 21st century,

we have now closed what have been described

as the Gutenberg parenthesis.

And that we have moved to a period of,

where verbal and the printed word are not

as king as they used to be.

And that sort of the argument that I'm making here is

that the visual is often king in the digital era.

Now our cognitive load that is to say how much our brain

has to be engaged is actually similar with oral,

that is to say what we hear, and visual stimuli.

We have sense organs.

They have to do a certain amount of work with our brain

to comprehend the world around us.

However, visual memory is stronger.

And that's where learning takes place, right?

That's where reprogramming, if you will, happens

is at the level of memory.

If you've ever learned how to play piano,

you know you've had to do finger exercises.

Well, hearing the same message,

seeing the same message,

in burning that into our memory, if you will,

is easier to do with visual messages.

And as a result, it's a stronger tool,

if you will, of learning.

It's stronger and more accurate than auditory,

what we hear, oral memory.

So that's lesson number two that I want to emphasize

and I'm going to unpack a little more.

Which is that visual is king in the digital era.

Now what really makes this strong is

when the visual imagery is presented with

what we call evocative stimuli.

So that's a nice $2 word

that I want to explain a little bit.

Evocative stimuli.

What that means is

stimuli, in this case,

is visual that evokes, that pulls out of us

a particular emotional response.

Okay, so evocative stimuli are images

or sometimes also sound,

music is very good at this,

that pull out of us,

that evoke a particular emotional response.

And the reason that's important for persuasion

is that you are pairing your persuasive message,

your product, your service, you candidate,

whatever it happens to be,

with that evocative stimuli.

Hence establishing an emotional tie

between what it is that you are promoting,

persuading about, and those images.

We're going to see some examples of that

in just a little bit.

This concept by the way

comes from the famous ad man Tony Schwartz.

Tony Schwartz wrote a book called Responsive Chord.

It's gonna be on a slide at the very end

in terms of further reading.

He wrote this book a number of decades ago

but it stands up very well.

He was a pioneer in ad producing.

And creator of the famous Daisy commercial.

And if you don't know what the Daisy commercial is,

don't worry, we're gonna watch it in a little while.

But he was really one of the first ad people to understand

the power of electronic media.

Television and radio in particular.

If you see this picture of him,

I don't know how well you can see the bookshelf behind him.

But those shelves are all filled

with a form of technology that you,

if you're under a certain age there in the audience today,

you may not be familiar with,

but it's all reel-to-reel audio tape.

And as you can see there are hundreds and hundreds of them

behind him and that's just a small portion of his library,

which I now believed is owned by the Smithsonian.

But when he was alive,

Tony Schwartz had an incredible audio library.

And he is the person who understood that

the way to sell products, if you will,

including political candidates,

was not best served on radio and television

by providing a lot of information.

Words are better at that.

So if you want, if you can get someone to read

a written text and that's where you provide them

a lot of content, if you will,

a lot of information about your product

or candidate or whatever.

But if, that's not the most powerful use

of radio and television.

Rather to provide images, and in some cases, sound

that accompany those images

that evoke an emotional response.

And so his argument was that with electronic media,

you should increase evocative stimuli.

Images again that are going to evoke

a particular emotional response.

So we're gonna watch a commercial here for Folgers coffee.

Some of you will recognize this ad.

Many of you will not.

But this is a commercial that aired

around Christmas time for Folgers coffee.

So we're going to watch this commercial now.

And then I'll talk about it after it's over.

- Thanks a lot.

(melodic music)

Merry Christmas.

(music getting more dramatic)

- Peter.

- Merry Christmas.

- Everyone's asleep.

- Shh, we're gonna wake 'em up.

Come on.

(sniffing)

(coffee burbling)

- Arr

- Hmm

- Aah

- Peter.

Oh you are home.

- I miss you Mom.

- Mmm.

- [Narrator] Best wishes for this

and all your mornings from Folgers.

- [Ed] Okay.

This was a very successful commercial for a time.

And while I want to talk a little bit about it.

First of all, note what was and wasn't said.

There's really no content, no claims at all,

offered here about their product.

They never, nobody ever comes on screen

and claims that Folgers coffee taste good,

or Folgers coffer smells good,

although that is actually implied in one particular point.

Rather a story is told

that is designed to elicit

a very specific emotional response.

And it is certainly not uniquely American,

but it is particularly American

in the sense of, many viewers would recognize this

as the college student has come home

from college and turned into a strapping 30-year-old

it looks like to me,

but I think it's supposed to be a college student

to visit for the holidays just in time

and that's why the family is so joyous in seeing him,

and he re-connects with his siblings.

The whole scene is filmed through a very soft focus

which itself connotes an emotional kind of environment,

that's very different than if it was not a soft focus.

Very recognizable characters, for most viewers.

And music of course that also supports

the emotional arc of the story, if you will.

So this is a very good example of what we are talking about

when we refer to evocative stimuli.

And the idea that Schwartz had is

the next time that somebody is walking down

the aisle of their grocery store

and they see that container of Folgers coffee,

that's the association that they're gonna have with that,

is that sort of warm feeling that was encouraged

by this particular video.

You notice by the way that

the Folgers coffee when it was opened was full.

And you saw the front of the can

just as you would in the grocery store,

and that's also the way that the ad ended,

was again showing you the image of the product

as you would see it in the grocery store.

That's designed to establish that link

between the emotions that the ad was creating

and the product.

So moving on to the third lesson that I want to talk about.

And have you take away from today, is that

mediated identity is real identity.

So when we talk about

knowing someone through the mass media,

my point is going to be,

and I'm gonna illustrate this over the next few slides,

is that we feel like we know that person,

or that character,

pretty much the same way that we would know a real person.

Now we have almost 2,000 people registered

and a large number of people listening in right now,

so the odds are pretty good that somebody out there

has actually met President Obama.

But most of us have not.

Nonetheless, I think it's safe to say

that we all have a lot of attitudes about Barrack Obama.

That we feel like we know him

because we experience him so often through the mass media.

Now I have two other characters on there.

In the middle there you see Harry Porter,

who I think would be recognized internationally

at this point, as a character.

And particularly if you've read all the books,

or you've seen at least a few of the movies,

maybe even only one of the movie.

You have a lot of attitudes and

emotional responses to that character.

Now the last one is Big Bird.

Now Big Bird is primarily American but not exclusively.

There are Big Birds in some other

public television stations across the world right now.

But that's one that some people might look at

and have no clue who Big Bird is,

let alone have any idea

about what Big Bird's personality is.

But my point generally here is

that we do get to know people,

whether those people are fictional or not,

and let's add birds to the general category of people

here just for the moment.

That we can develop attitudes.

What kind of attitudes and judgments am I talking about?

Well, one, is that our research has shown

that we make the same judgments

about mediated personality as we do real people

When we meet them in life, is attractiveness.

And that's a judgment, again, that is a snap judgment.

We, it takes us about two seconds to be able to rate

someone on a scale of attractiveness.

Now just in case, I realize Shrek maybe getting to be

a little bit of a dated example right now,

but we have a fictional character of Shrek

on the left hand side, and George Clooney,

from a few years ago,

but still looking pretty good, on the right.

And it's pretty easy to say that

you could go anywhere over the world

and have people make a fairly instantaneous

rating of their attractiveness,

even though they may only know them, again,

through the media.

So attractiveness is an example of a judgment

that we make instantly based on purely visual information.

Trustworthiness is another quality

that we're able to make about mediated identities.

And we can do that even with a single photograph

but it gets even stronger if we have sort of

multiple mediated experiences of a person.

So in this case I've got Colbert on the right hand side

and a fictional character, Voldemort, on the left hand side.

But again if somebody knows these people,

that is to say, has experienced them

through the mass media,

I have no question at all in my mind

that they have made a judgment

that could be, if you will,

qualify as to how trustworthy that they find them to be.

And that's one of the things that we've done

in our research is that we've asked people

how trustworthy they find certain real world characters,

political candidates, for example, and fictional characters.

And we find that people are able to make

the same kind of judgments consistently

and that those judgments in turn

correlate with other kinds of judgments

that they might make on a variety of issues.

A third example of the kind of judgment

that we make with mediated identities is likeability.

Likeability which may not surprise you, also tends to

correlate fairly highly with attractiveness.

We tend to like attractive people.

And again here I have a couple of examples of people

that if you recognize them, you no doubt

already have judgments about their likeability.

On the left is Ellen DeGeneres,

who has in recent years, consistently scored

as one of the most likable Hollywood celebrities.

And she's been around now for several decades,

so if you're at all experienced with at least US television,

I don't really know if her show is shown outside of that,

then she's someone who people have formed a judgment about.

On the right, of course, is New Jersey Governor, Christie.

I added this slide by the way,

right after the controversy that broke out

when certain bridge delays became public.

And so now that's a little bit of personal knowledge, right?

About Christie's office being implicated

with deliberately causing traffic problems.

I've never met the man,

but there's no question that

what I've learned about him and see him visually,

it is going to influence my judgments

about whether or not I find him likable or not.

So likeability is a third kind of judgment

that we can make very quickly based on mediated contact.

The last one interestingly enough is predictability.

Once we get to know a mediated character,

we find ourselves able to increase our confidence

about how to predict that they will behave.

And that's actually an important variable.

It correlates back with, I noticed, commented earlier

that attractiveness correlates with likeability.

Predictability tends to correlate with trustworthiness.

So to present a consistent media persona

that is both predictable and provided as, presented as

trustworthy, are strongly reinforcing.

In this particular case we have Santa Claus

as he's known in the US,

other names in other countries.

And of course, Vladimir Putin on the right hand side.

Both of these mediated characters her are winking at us.

But perhaps what that means will differ

depending on your previous knowledge

and experience of those particular characters.

And again these are relatively easy things to measure.

By the way, we've done surveys

where we've again presented real life

and fictional characters

and asked them a series of items

about whether or not you think you can predict what they,

predict what they're gonna do,

if you understand why they do the things they came to do.

Things that correlate with the notion of predictability

and it's quite easy to do very quickly

and with purely mediated identities.

So I'm going to put you on the spot again, Peter.

And I'm going to give you, present you an image here

of a couple who of course you've never met before.

So all you have to work with here

is this particular picture.

And you can take a second

and you can see that the big slab of delicious ribs

that they have there.

If you had to conjecture

what would you say about these two people?

- [Peter] Looks to me like they're a couple.

And that they're very friendly and welcoming and inviting.

And offering me some very tasty looking food

but which I wouldn't hesitate to eat.

I certainly wouldn't be concerned

that there was anything untoward about the offer.

But they don't look like they're trying to sell me anything.

They don't look like they're trying to poison me.

- [Ed] If you had to guess anything about their sort of,

I don't know, socio-economic or educational status,

is there anything you would infer from this picture?

- [Peter] I guess so maybe this is a little peripheral,

but to me they look like they might be sort of, retired,

in the US, they probably moved to somewhere

nice and sunny in the satisfied look of it.

- [Ed] Well some of your instincts there are quite good.

I will notice that they are my age, by the way.

(Peter laughing)

And they are married, and in fact,

were married as teenagers.

So they've been together for a very long time.

They are a couple.

There are certain stereotypes in every country

and I have had some people who have looked at this image

and described them as looking a bit redneck

which I don't think they would find insulting,

particularly because Frank is actually a professor

at the State University of New York,

and is Chair of their Communication Department.

He's a friend of mine since graduate school

which is now about 30 years ago.

And so he looks a little different.

Obviously these pictures are designed,

the one on the right that he looks a little like Thoreau

and the one on the left

is sort of his professional persona.

So looks a bit different obviously

than holding a big slab of ribs.

And in the background, by the way,

there you can kinda make out that there was a contest,

and that they apparently,

and they do, as a hobby, enter barbecue contest.

But again, the point here is

that we make inferences

and make judgments very quickly

based on visual stimuli

that we have about a particular person.

And we are hardwired to do that.

If you think about traits that have evolutionary value,

the ability to figure out if somebody's friend or foe

is really important.

And even with few squiggly lines,

that's Reddy Kilowatt on the left,

which is a bit of a throwback Thursday character here.

And here with just a few lines on the right,

you still have a character that with a little bit more

probably need a little bit more information.

But I suspect I could have asked people

a series of questions

that they would not just answer with I have no idea.

They would make assessments about whether or not

they think that character,

even on the right is shady and trustworthy or not.

Okay.

So this first segment that I've been talking about so far

in terms of mastering your visual message,

emphasizes three themes.

To think of visual and verbal as different media,

different channels of communication.

To recognize that visual is king in the digital era.

Is processed quickly, is remembered more strongly.

And thirdly that our mediated identity is

for all practical purposes,

our real identity, okay?

What I'd like to do is ask a quick polling question here,

which basically ask about your web presence, if you will.

So Azhar, if you would push out that next question,

that'd be great.

All right.

Let's take a look at what kind of answers we get there.

All right.

So interesting that 80% do have a photograph

of themselves online.

So today's presentation I hope will be useful

both to the 80% who already have a visual representation

of themselves, and for them to think about

is it conveying the meaning that they want it to.

And maybe getting a reality check on that

from some candid colleagues.

But it's also important for the 21% of you who don't.

Because if you have a business

that has any kind of web presence,

if you want to for people to understand that there're humans

behind your particular service or company,

then it's probably a good idea to have some photographs

of yourself or other people in important roles

in your particular company.

And to think about, again

what kind of judgments are people gonna make

about attractiveness, likeability,

trustworthiness and predictability.

Because all of those can correlate

to a basically a positive response to you.

And to your particular company and product.

What I'd like to do here for just the last few minutes is

to dig a little bit deeper.

To talk about the semantics and syntax of visual language.

As I said earlier has a strong parallel.

So with syntax you're talking about a grammar of images.

How images are linked together.

Very briefly, one is simply linking positive or negative

associations, and we're gonna see that,

an example of that in just a minute.

Secondly is you can imply cause.

X causes Y.

And it's much easier to do that with pictures

than in the real world sometimes.

Third is you can with again

with moving images, create analogies.

For those of you who watch the Superbowl

and watch the Superbowl ads in particular,

I think for many people their favorite was that

when you're hungry

and are lacking certain nutritional value,

you may feel like Danny Trejo,

who was in that Snickers commercial.

Until you have your Snickers nutrition

and then you're back to normal.

And then lastly you can present dilemmas.

You can create a choice visually between X and Y.

You can demonstrate visually why X is a bad idea,

therefore encourage the Y option to your viewers.

Let's watch the Daisy commercial.

Let me set it up very briefly.

This is a commercial that was run in 1964

by the Lyndon Johnson campaign.

This is before the United States

had really escalated its involvement in Vietnam.

And so at the time, Johnson was the candidate of restraint.

And it was the Goldwater, that campaign

that was associated with the idea of

potentially escalating the war.

So let's watch this very famous, really

one of the most famous political commercials ever viewed.

(birds chirping)

- [Girl] One, two, three,

four, five,

seven, six,

six, eight, nine,

nine,

- [Narrator] 10, nine, eight, seven, six,

five, four,

three, two, one.

Zero. (bomb exploding)

- [Lyndon Voiceover] These are the stakes.

To make a world in which all of God's children can live,

or to go into the dark.

We must either love each other,

or we must die.

- [Narrator] Vote for President Johnson on November 3rd.

The stakes are too high for you to stay home.

- [Ed] Okay.

So as you can see there,

very provocative images there.

It was very controversial.

It's only aired once.

And the point that I want to make,

and the only point I wanna make about it right now, is

that Goldwater is never mentioned in that ad.

There are in fact, are no verbal claims

about how Goldwater would be a dangerous candidate.

It's all implied.

And it's the emotional response that they hope

would be evoked, ie, fear

associated with the candidacy of Goldwater.

But it's a good example of an argument by association,

that linkage being made through the particular ad.

Okay.

So I wanna go to the next example,

which is to show how one makes a causal argument.

And this is a commercial for Zest soap.

And they have made a lot of commercials like this.

And let's just watch it

and then we'll talk about it as an argument.

(upbeat music)

- [Narrator] Exhausted to the extreme,

you need refreshment that's extreme.

♪ It's gonna be a new day ♪

- [Narrator] Get new Zest cool extreme

with refreshing mint.

♪ I wanna feel a new way ♪

- [Narrator] It wakes you.

Shakes you.

And revives you

with a cleaner rinse that's fresher than ordinary soap.

New Zest cool extreme.

Feel the mint,

and get refreshed.

And now new Zest spring burst.

For 365 refreshing spring mornings.

- [Ed] Okay.

So notice there, again, very little is actually said.

And even if it is, that's not what you remember.

What you're going to remember are the images.

Nice, bright colors associated with this.

And the persistent argument that Zest has used

over the years is that

it will wake you up.

And that a good shower with Zest is the best way

to feel refreshed and awakened.

And they repeat that formula in commercial after commercial.

So and I also hope that you did notice

the very bright colors and exciting sort of music

that was used there

because I don't want,

as much as I want to emphasize the visual,

I certainly don't wanna underestimate the supporting role

that auditory soundtracks in particular can play.

I'm showing you a quick list, I won't go over all of these.

But in terms of how we effect the meaning of visual images,

which is what I mean by semantics.

There is a lot of components from costuming

to the use of recognizable simplistic characters.

These are all techniques that we can use in

whatever particular persuasive context

that we happen to find ourselves in.

Again, always keeping the audience in mind

of what these visual images will mean to them.

And what I wanna talk about here is

this one, slide is a little hard to see.

But it's about overall composition effects.

Putting things together.

For a positive video, you have positive music,

soft focus, slow motion and vocal tones.

And nice colors.

Or you can do the opposite.

You can have very negative imagery with harsh lights,

fast edits, black and white, and harsh vocals.

And I'm gonna end today with two videos

that put all these things together,

that I think will kinda throw into relief

all the different variables

that go into a visual message.

So let's start with an ad

from the re-election of Ronald Reagan from 1984.

If Azhar you can push that off, that'd be great.

(soft music)

- [Narrator] It's morning again in America.

Today more men and women will go to work

than ever before in our country's history.

With interest rates at about half the record highs of 1980.

Nearly 2,000 families today will buy new homes.

More than at any time in the past four years.

This afternoon 6,500 young men and women will be married.

And with inflation at less than half of what it was

just four years ago,

they can look forward with confidence to the future.

It's morning again in America.

And under the leadership of President Reagan,

our country is prouder and stronger.

And better.

Why would we ever want to return to where we were

less than four short years ago.

- [Ed] With a professionally made ad,

there are no accidents.

And so every second of that ad is really artistry at work.

You have lighting.

You have focus.

You have music.

And above all you have recognizable characters there.

And those recognizable characters are ones

that the Reagan campaign at least

assume the people would care about.

So really nice example.

Very effective ad from 1984

that shows many of these components

I've been talking about, being put together.

So let's watch one more.

And in this particular case,

we're gonna see almost a mirror opposite here.

And a flip of all of those different factors

in a very negative ad

that was produced in 2012.

Okay, go ahead Azhar.

(dramatic music)

- [Narrator] Imagine a small American town

two years from now

if Obama is re-elected.

Small businesses are struggling.

And families are worried about their jobs,

and their future.

The wait to see a doctor is ever increasing.

Gas prices through the roof.

And the freedom of religion under attack.

And every day the residents of this town

must come to grips with the harsh reality

that a world nation and sworn American enemy

has become a nuclear threat.

- [Man] Threat, threat, threat, threat.

- [Narrator] Welcome to a place

where one president's failed policies really hit home.

(rhythmic music)

Welcome to Obamaville.

More than a town.

A cautionary tale coming soon to RickSantorum.com.

- [Ed] So that commercial was put together

by the Rick Santorum campaign in 2012.

And Santorum might be running again this year.

But at any rate, it is a great example

of a lot of the techniques that I'm talking about.

You've got a lot of black and white.

You've got fast edits.

Again, very recognizable characters.

It doesn't work if you can't recognize the characters

that are being portrayed.

And very different vocals and use of lighting

than we saw in the Reagan ad.

So two extremes there.

But when you put it together,

I think you can see the potential power

of visual persuasion.

So I think that what I'd like to do at this point is,

simply summed up by what we're talking about here

is called dual coding.

That most messages actually combine

verbal and nonverbal components.

They combine words with visual images.

And because visual images have a bigger impact,

pictures do the most significant persuasive work

when those, when messages are dual coded like that.

And hopefully today's presentation

has given you some ideas

about how to understand exactly how that works.

So I would encourage you

as we get ready to move into a Q&A period here,

to think about how you could put into practice

one or more of the concepts that you've learned

in particular how you could enhance your online image,

and self representation.

And here's a little kind of a brain teaser for you.

How would you respond to a rival company's attack ad

about your product or company?

And I'll give you a hint there,

which is the cliche or expression that

you fight fire with fire.

And I think that's all I will say.

So with that I think I will turn it over to Q&A.

- [Peter] Great.

Thank you very much, Ed.

We've been getting some questions coming in.

I encourage everyone please to keep asking questions

through the panel.

And we will try to ask a few of those

and we'll continue the discussion

on our Facebook page afterwards.

Just what you closed by saying there

actually that was one of the kind of

just putting together some of the questions

that are coming in.

You've illustrated these concepts very much

using videos of adverts

and I think there's an understanding that

that's a craft where many of these ideas

have been perfected over years

and that as you said,

they don't waste a second of the presentation.

Can you say any more that will help us think about

how do we take those lessons

that are illustrated in ads

and apply them to either our professional

or our business lives?

You've given a couple of hints as you were closing up

but maybe you will expand a little on that.

- [Ed] Well, the first thing that I would say is that

the use of video in a variety of context

is rapidly increasing

in almost all areas of industry right now.

And when I mean video,

I'm talking about training videos.

I'm talking about internal videos that are designed for

everything from boosting morale to teaching about, again,

training type issues.

And so I think to recognize

that's a really powerful medium.

And I've been talking a lot

about how that represents people

but there's also messages that are going along with that.

So if you want to encourage people

about an employee workforce for example,

about a particular set of behaviors

you want to either encourage or discourage,

don't just tell, show.

That's what the visual channel allows you to do is

to show not just tell.

And the reason that's important is

because it will have a longer lasting effect.

In other words, as this is one of the points that

I spend a lot of time on in the two day class

which is when you formulate messages

you want to think about who your audience is

and what the most appropriate channel or medium

for that message is.

Sometimes it's an email

but another times you might think today

about putting together a visual message

because it's not that hard anymore.

And it potentially could be more effective

for your particular goals, whatever those goals may be.

- [Peter] Great, thank you.

That's helpful.

Could you take us back to the slide had that, you meant,

you said that you've got some further comment

that you're going to make about that.

Maybe this would be a good time.

- [Ed] Sure.

Well where some people in the audience might recognize that

from is it tends to be considered a somewhat feminine pose.

And I realize I'm older

than the average person listening today.

But when I was in high school,

it was almost a ridiculous

how consistently guys were told to look straight

at the camera.

And then women's,

the photographer would reach forward

and tilt their head to strike a more feminine pose.

Well it's not just associated with gender

it's also associated with how direct it is

and whether or not it's a more coy pose.

And so that head tilt does have,

in many societies, a gendered dimension to it.

It is, we don't know for sure that for this,

but we think that this actually may be evolutionary

because the head tilt exposes the jugular.

It is a submissive pose to take

as opposed to looking someone straight in the eye.

And that's worth knowing because

I've had female professionals in my classes

who after hearing this lecture in particular,

immediately go home and change the pictures

that they have of themselves

because they realize that the way

they were presenting themselves

through their websites or whatever,

was not the person that they wanted to seen as.

So that head tilt for men might be a way to kinda

lessen their assertiveness in some context

but for women it may be opposed

you may want in a business context at least to avoid.

- [Peter] That sounds also like

we're potentially getting into territory

where people may become concerned about

bias and discrimination.

Whether it's through those kind of attributes

that you describe, or actually even more overt signals,

whether it's race, or gender or other things.

Can we, are these just basic inescapable human realities?

Can we reprogram our responses to these things?

What are your views on that?

- [Ed] Well.

First of all, absolutely.

There are the reactions that we have

to digital images are often so fast

that if we have been brought up

or socialized with certain biases,

that's a place where they're going to kick in.

We can certainly hope that that can change over time.

But it's also something to kind of keep in mind.

If I'm a minority member

and I have to worry about that

on top of everything else, well, what do I do?

Are there things that I can do?

And the answer is, at least in some context, there may be.

It's a cliche to beat all cliches

but putting on a pair of glasses whether you need it or not

conveys a different kind of image.

And certainly how we dress in professional context

is a code that everyone recognizes

and understands immediately.

So I have a whole other presentation about

how we can decrease prejudice through television

but we don't have time for that today.

But we at least need to recognize that,

yes, people decode things almost instantly

and therefore we need to influence that the best we can.

- [Peter] Good, very good.

Back to the question of,

what constitutes visual versus written?

And that's something which I think is quite interesting

that isn't there a sense in which the printed word

for example, if you're looking at it

on a PowerPoint slide, is itself visual?

And does that extend also to, even to languages?

Perhaps where the presentation language itself

is much more visual than that?

- [Ed] I'm going to break that into two questions.

We do know that in terms of reading

and activate reading words

activates a different part of the brain

than looking at a picture of somebody's face.

So that's what I mentioned earlier about

how different parts of the brain are affected.

It's true that we still,

we process both of them initially through our eyes

but where it goes from there, if you will,

is a different part of the brain.

Now the second question there in terms of languages

that rely more on idiographic imagery,

that's a really good question

that I'm not prepared to answer today

but I will, we'll learn soon and be able to answer that.

I suspect the answer is still the same.

That it's still as a written language

still processed in the same part of the brain that

that English is for English speakers.

But I do not know that for certain.

- [Peter] And just expanding on

that particular sort of question.

I think it was also a lead-in to what might be

cultural and sort of geographic differences

that people could expect

as we have folks from all over the year.

We're all listening to this webinar

and one very similar line of questions as well was

has your opinion changed over time,

or you think opinions change over time

that some of the ads that you were showing,

that some of the questions were saying

if you showed that ad now

it would have a very different response

to what it did in the election

that it was a part of.

- [Ed] Oh absolutely, absolutely.

Our sensibility of what,

I mean the Daisy commercial would not be effective today.

And it was controversial in 1964.

So absolutely our aesthetics

and our notion of what appropriate

representations are, changes dramatically.

If you have time to waste,

go to YouTube and google 1950s TV commercials

and they will be laughable

in terms of how they present consumers

especially women as consumers.

But the other point that you made

in terms of cultural diversity,

I want to mention two things.

One is is that the meaning of most facial expressions

is in fact universal.

So you can recognize somebody who's angry

in any part of the world.

That's pretty hardwired in us.

But once we get past that it does get trickier.

And I think therefore when you think about

the particular audience

that your images are being portrayed to,

you do need to think about that.

You do need to keep that in mind.

And just as I said earlier

you shouldn't be your own judge

of what your picture looks like.

You want to also try to identify audience kind of,

if you will, a test focus group

that represents the geography and the culture

that you are ultimately trying to persuade.

Because there will be cultural differences.

That's more apparent actually in nonverbal,

how far you stand from somebody in Germany

is very different than

how close you would stand to them in Latin America.

But that's all,

there will also be some cultural differences

in terms of how some stuff is represented.

Now I actually think we overstate that sometimes.

There's no way that

anybody's going to confuse the Obama bill commercial

with being anything other than an attempt to scare us.

I think that's true actually with a lot of the messages.

But nonetheless how recognizable certain characters are?

Are people in on the joke?

Things of that sort,

that really will be culturally specific.

- [Peter] Great. Thank you.

That actually answered a number of other questions

that were coming in.

I think that we're just drawing to the top of the hour

but also had a lot of people asking,

finding this very fascinating

and asking where else they can learn more about these ideas.

I think if we would move on to the next slide,

perhaps we have some suggested for readings.

And we will be distributing these.

The video of this and you'll be able to see

these materials later on.

Here's some suggested reading.

Of course it would,

but whose me to mention that I did the beginning

that Ed Schiappa also teaches in our two day open enrollment

course here at MIT Sloan

on Communication and Persuasion in the Digital Age.

Which I think we have details of that on the next slide.

And here I think also we have a,

there was a link to the presentation.

Here's details of the course.

Perhaps in closing we have about a minute left.

You've put me on the spot a couple of times

during this presentation.

So let me put you on the spot one final time and say

if there was one single thing that

people watching this presentation could go away

and do right away as soon as they close their browser

or maybe when they go into the office the next morning.

What would that be?

- [Ed] I think the easiest thing is to

grab the most earnest and frank colleague

that you have and have them sit down

and look at your picture on the web

and say, what does this say to you.

And to do what kind of, what we did at the beginning there

with, I gave you a menu of four options.

Give a person like that a variety of options.

Don't do it yourself,

have somebody else who will decode that image.

I think that's something

that every single person should do is

think about how they and for that matter,

fellow employees are being represented through the web

since that's the way

so much business is encountered these days.

- [Peter] Thank you.

That's great advice.

And we're now going to move everyone

onto the Facebook portion of our chat.

And if we would please just push the slide

that will give everyone

the link to the Facebook discussion.

We'll be here for another 13 off hour,

30 minutes to continue to ask answer questions.

We had some very interesting ones coming in.

We'll try to answer some more of those.

And if you have any further ones

please come to the Facebook chat.

Once again thank you for this portion, Ed.

And we'll see everyone momentarily

hopefully on Facebook.

- [Ed] Thank you for inviting me.

- [Azhar] Thanks to all the participants

for joining us today.

In a brief moment a link to the Facebook discussion

with Professor Schiappa will appear on your screen.

We hope you found this webcast presentation informative.

This concludes our webcast.

You may now disconnect.

Have a good day.