Harriet Karimi Muriithi on Life in Kenya | Conversations with Tyler

Summary

In this episode of 'Conversations with Tyler,' host Tyler Cowen engages in a deep and insightful dialogue with Harriet Mory, a 22-year-old hostess and waitress from Nairobi, Kenya. Harriet shares her experiences and perspectives on the vibrant city of Nairobi, its culture, politics, and the daily life of its inhabitants. She discusses her passion for the hospitality sector, her love for reading, watching movies, and the blend of traditional and modern influences in Kenyan society. The conversation delves into topics such as the impact of COVID-19 on Kenya, the challenges of starting a business, the evolving food scene, and Harriet's aspirations for the future, including her dreams of owning a high-end restaurant and her thoughts on technology's role in society.

Takeaways

• 🎙️ Sam introduces two bonus episodes of 'Conversations with Tyler' focusing on Nairobi, Kenya, highlighting daily life, culture, and politics.
• 👩 Harriet Mory, a 22-year-old hostess and waitress at Roast by Carnivore in Tatu City, shares her experiences and perspectives on living and working in Nairobi.
• 🏙️ Harriet chose to live in Nairobi for its opportunities and convenience, and she is proud of the city's growth and development.
• 🌄 Harriet's village, Kumi, is near Mount Kenya, known for its spectacular views and suitable climate for cash crops like coffee and tea.
• 📚 Harriet has interests in the hospitality sector, loves reading books, watching movies, and traveling, and she speaks Kikuyu, English, and a bit of Italian.
• 🍝 Harriet enjoys Italian food and is fascinated by the job opportunities and pay in Italy, though she has never been there.
• 🎶 She likes various types of music, including Beyoncé and Nigerian Afrobeats, and she creates TikTok videos about her daily life and work.
• 🍖 The restaurant Harriet works at, Roast by Carnivore, primarily serves different types of meat, and she has a preference for beef.
• 🌍 Harriet is ambitious, with an 8.5 out of 10 rating on a scale of ambition, and dreams of owning her high-end restaurant someday.
• 📈 Harriet observes that the cost of living in Nairobi has increased and criticizes the government's management, suggesting a need for change.

Q & A

What is the main topic of the conversation in this transcript?

The main topic of the conversation is the daily life, culture, and politics of Nairobi and Kenya as a whole, with a focus on the experiences of Harriet Mory, a young woman working in Tatu City, and her perspectives on various aspects of Kenyan society.

What is Harriet Mory's occupation and where does she work?

Harriet Mory is a 22-year-old waitress and hostess working at a restaurant called Roast by Carnivore, located in Tatu City.

What are Harriet's interests and hobbies?

Harriet has strong interests in the hospitality sector, loves reading books, watching movies, and traveling. She also has a fascination with technology and is an extroverted individual who enjoys social media platforms like TikTok.

How does Harriet feel about Nairobi as a city?

Harriet finds Nairobi interesting and full of opportunities, both career-wise and in terms of personal enjoyment. She appreciates the city's growth and development and is proud of its progress.

What are Harriet's thoughts on the education system in Kenya?

Harriet believes that the education system in Kenya could be improved by returning to the 8-4-4 system and focusing more on core subjects like math, reading, and writing to ensure a strong foundation for all students.

How does Harriet view the influence of technology on society?

Harriet sees technology as a double-edged sword. While it has made work easier and provided platforms for learning and communication, she also acknowledges that it can lead to job loss and a potential over-reliance on AI for tasks that were traditionally done by humans.

What are Harriet's thoughts on the role of women in Kenyan society?

Harriet believes that women in Kenya have strong rights and are treated well, with equal opportunities in leadership and the freedom to express their opinions. However, she notes that in her village, women's rights are not as advanced, with many women focusing on home and family life rather than pursuing careers or education.

How does Harriet feel about the British colonial history of Kenya?

Harriet acknowledges that the British colonial period taught Kenyans certain things, like Christianity and education, but she also recognizes that the British treated the local population poorly. She sees the impact of colonialism as a mix of positive and negative influences.

What are Harriet's views on the current political and economic situation in Kenya?

Harriet expresses concern about the cost of living in Nairobi and the government's role in managing the economy. She believes that a change in government is needed to improve the situation and that both structural changes and voting for different parties could be part of the solution.

What are Harriet's future aspirations?

Harriet aspires to own her own high-end restaurant someday, where she can provide memorable experiences for her guests. She is also interested in learning more about technology to keep up with the evolving job market and to potentially become self-employed.

How does Harriet describe her experience with the COVID-19 pandemic?

Harriet found the COVID-19 pandemic to be a challenging time, as it delayed her school year and made social interactions difficult due to social distancing measures. She mentions that many people became jobless and that the pandemic affected people's mental health and their ability to connect with one another.

Outlines

00:00

🎙️ Introduction to Bonus Episodes and Nairobi Insights

The script begins with an introduction to two bonus episodes of 'Conversations with Tyler', focusing on Nairobi, Kenya. The host, Sam, interviews Harriet Mory, a young woman working in Tatu City, a mixed-use development north of Nairobi. Harriet shares her experiences and perspectives on the city's opportunities, culture, and politics. She also discusses her background, education in Supply Chain Management, and her interests in the hospitality sector. The episode promises a contrasting perspective in the second part, featuring an elder from the same area.

05:02

🌆 Harriet's Life in Nairobi and Her Aspirations

Harriet talks about why she chose to live in Nairobi, highlighting the city's opportunities and her personal growth since moving there at the age of 10. She mentions her family background, her education, and her current job as a waitress and hostess. Harriet also shares her love for reading, watching movies, and traveling. She discusses her language skills, her dream of visiting Italy, and her experiences with social media and technology. The conversation touches on her views on family planning and the future of Kenya.

10:04

🍽️ Harriet's Work at Roast by Carnivore and Views on Food

Harriet describes her role at Roast by Carnivore, her responsibilities as a hostess, and the challenges of managing multiple tables. She talks about the restaurant's offerings, her preference for beef, and her thoughts on traditional Kenyan food. Harriet also shares her experiences with starting a clothing business and the difficulties of obtaining permits and licenses in Nairobi. Her ambition is to own a high-end restaurant someday, and she discusses her views on being a good people person and a potential boss.

15:04

📱 Impact of Technology and Government on Nairobi's Cost of Living

The discussion shifts to the impact of technology and social media on Kenyan society, with Harriet mentioning her favorite platforms and content. She talks about the influence of Chinese technology in Nairobi and her views on the cost of living in the city. Harriet expresses her concerns about the government's role in managing the economy and the challenges faced by small businesses. She also shares her thoughts on the importance of education and her experiences with the public and private school systems in Kenya.

20:06

🌍 Perspectives on America, Kenya's History, and Women's Rights

Harriet shares her impressions of America and her thoughts on the country's race problems, attributing some of the issues to the anonymity provided by technology. She discusses the influence of British colonialism on Kenya and her views on the Catholic Church. Harriet also talks about women's rights in Kenya, her village's economy, and the challenges faced by her community. She expresses her optimism about Nairobi and her desire to stay in the city.

25:06

🌿 Reflections on Life in Nairobi and Future Aspirations

In the final paragraph, Harriet reflects on her experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic, the impact on her education and social life, and her family's village. She discusses the presence of wildlife near her village and the economic challenges her community faces. Harriet talks about her career aspirations in the hospitality industry, her desire to learn more about technology, and her plans for further education. The conversation concludes with her thoughts on the future of Tatu City and her potential contributions to the area.

Keywords

💡Nairobi

Nairobi is the capital city of Kenya and the main setting of the conversation. It is described as a city full of opportunities, career-wise, and a vibrant place with a growing economy. The city's daily life, culture, and politics are central themes in the discussion.

💡Tatu City

Tatu City is a mixed-use development located just north of Nairobi. It is where Harriet works and represents the rapidly developing nature of Kenya. The city's growth and the opportunities it presents are key points of discussion in the episode.

💡Kikuyu tribe

The Kikuyu tribe is one of the 42 tribes in Kenya, and Harriet identifies as a member of this tribe. The Kikuyu speak the Bantu language, and their culture and language are integral to understanding Harriet's background and the diversity of Kenya.

💡Hospitality sector

The hospitality sector is a significant part of the conversation as Harriet works in this industry and has a strong interest in it. She discusses her job as a hostess and waitress, and her aspirations to own a high-end restaurant in the future.

💡Education

Education is a recurring theme in the conversation, with Harriet discussing her studies in Supply Chain Management and her thoughts on the education system in Kenya. The importance of education for personal and national development is highlighted.

💡Technology

Technology is a key concept in the conversation, with Harriet expressing her interest in evolving technology, particularly AI, and its impact on employment and daily life. She also uses technology, such as TikTok and chatbots, for personal and professional purposes.

💡Culture

Culture is an important aspect of the conversation, as it shapes Harriet's identity and the society she lives in. The discussion touches on the diversity of tribes in Kenya, traditional beliefs, and the influence of different cultures on daily life.

💡Economy

The economy of Kenya, especially in Nairobi, is a central topic. The conversation explores the challenges and opportunities in the job market, the impact of the pandemic, and the cost of living in the city.

💡Social Media

Social media plays a significant role in Harriet's life and the lives of many young people in Nairobi. It is a platform for expression, entertainment, and learning. The conversation highlights the popularity of platforms like TikTok and how they are used.

💡Food

Food is a common topic of discussion, reflecting the culinary diversity of Kenya and personal preferences. It also touches on the changes in dietary habits and the influence of different cultures on local cuisine.

💡Family

Family is an important aspect of Harriet's life and the societal structure in Kenya. The conversation explores family dynamics, the number of children in families, and the support systems within the community.

Highlights

Sam introduces the release of two bonus episodes on the daily life, culture, and politics of Nairobi and Kenya.

Harriet Mory, a young woman working in Tatu City, shares her experiences and perspectives on living and working in Nairobi.

Harriet discusses her interest in the hospitality sector and her studies in Supply Chain management.

The importance of Nairobi as a city of opportunities and its appeal to young professionals like Harriet is highlighted.

Harriet's village, Kumi, is noted for its spectacular views, especially in the morning, and its suitability for cash crops like coffee.

As a Kikuyu tribe member, Harriet speaks about the linguistic and cultural diversity within the tribe.

Harriet's pride in Nairobi's growth and her personal connection to the city's development over the years.

The impact of COVID-19 on Harriet's life, including the delay in her school year and the challenges of social distancing.

Harriet's thoughts on the future of family sizes in Kenya, relating it to economic hardship and the issue of street children.

The influence of technology and social media on Harriet's life, including her use of TikTok and interest in AI.

Harriet's job as a waitress and hostess at Roast by Carnivore, and her experiences working in the hospitality industry.

The cultural significance of music in Harriet's life, with a preference for Beyoncé and the Lemonade album.

Harriet's views on the cost of living in Nairobi and her critiques of the government's role in economic management.

Harriet's ambition to own a high-end restaurant and her vision for a mixed cuisine offering.

The importance of Christianity in Harriet's life and her experiences as a Catholic in Kenya.

Harriet's thoughts on the British colonial history of Kenya and its impact on the country's development.

Harriet's optimism about Kenya's future and her desire to contribute to the country's progress.

Transcripts

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

hey everybody this is Sam one of the

producers of conversations with Tyler

today we're releasing two bonus episodes

to go along with episode 193 featuring

Steven Jennings these two episodes show

fascinating elements of the daily life

the culture and the politics of Nairobi

and Kenya as a whole in this episode

part one you'll hear from Harriet Mory a

young woman working in Tatu City a 5,000

acre mixus development just north of

Nairobi after this episode make sure to

check out part two to hear from the

perspective of an elder katai gji who

also works in Tatu City for a

contrasting perspective of the rapidly

developing country of Kenya now on to

the

show conversations with Tyler is

produced by the mercus center at George

Mason University Bridging the Gap

between academic ideas and real world

problems learn more at marcus.org for a

full transcript of every conversation

enhanced with helpful links visit

conversations withth tyler.com

hello everyone and welcome back to

conversations with Tyler I am sitting

here right outside of Nairobi Kenya in

Tatu City and I will be speaking with

Harriet morti she's a 22-year-old

Hostess and waitress she works at a

restaurant roast by carnivore located in

Tatu City she's worked there for a year

and a half and she has strong interests

in the hospitality sector she studied

Supply Chain management at The kiambu

Institute of Science and Technology in

kiambu County she loves reading books

watching movies and also

traveling she comes from kirinyaga

County her Village is called Kumi it's

near Mount Kenya I am told the area has

spectacular views especially in the

morning it can be cold but it's ideal

for cash crops such as coffee and te she

is a Kiku speaking the Bantu language

and that is one of 42 tribes in Kenya

harot welcome thank you so

much what for you makes Nairobi such an

interesting City why is it the place you

chose to

live and Nairobi just has so much to

offer in terms of opportunities

career-wise also it's a very nice place

to be in

Nairobi and the part of Nairobi you live

in why did you choose that part of the

city at this I chose because one it was

close to the school where I was and now

it's close to the place where I walk so

it's convenient for me to move around

and languages you speak BTU right that

was your family language yes it is

English obviously and you speak

kiswahili sure any other languages not

for now no what else would you like to

know maybe a bit of Italian Italian yes

have you ever been to Italy no but I do

have a friend who just moved in there

like last year if you dream of going to

Italy what do you think you will see or

do I would say it's the views for me and

I also know it has a variety of job

opportunities around that place also the

pay can be quite good more than it is

here do you eat Italian food in Nairobi

ever not really it's very good see if

you can get some I like pasta very much

we do have pasta though and the artworks

in Italy they're they're very beautiful

very interesting to see

sure you say you you like to read books

what are some of your favorite books or

kinds of

books I would say fantasy

history Adventure uh yeah what would be

something you would read in

fantasy let's see Den K will be my

writer to go all the way yeah his books

actually he covers almost every range

that I actually mentioned yes and for

history what do you like to read about

about Kenya or about Italy other

countries history is quite interesting

cuz actually to specialize in Kenya we

have different tribes and they all have

different histories which can be

actually fascinating something that you

didn't grow up with or did experience on

your way growing up how do you think

about what makes KIU tribe different or

special I would say it's special cuz

kikoyu in general is a BTO language but

it's divided in different mode of

languages cuz we can actually speaku but

different versions of it maybe from the

internet Nations to the way you

communicate yeah to different way to

different words to mean the same thing

but say the culture or the personalities

are they different for Kiku not really

not really same as other people in Kenya

yes what are you most proud about when

it comes to

Nairobi I'm proud

about the growth I have seen Nairobi

grow since Al enough how old were you

when you left your village I would say I

was 10 so that was 12 years ago that's a

long time yeah and what made you decide

to

leave uh one the reason why I left my

place was I was offered a sponsorship in

a school around

kangela yeah so I left for school and

given that you have to choose high

schools around your area I choose around

Nairobi and that is how I found my way

in Nairobi and that's because you're

ambitious and smart yeah and did your

parents come with you or you came here

at age 10 alone no I my parents were

left back in kirinyaga but I used to

live with my aunt and uncle and they

took care of you yes they

did and how many brothers and sisters do

you have I only have one brother we

two and he's still back in the village

or he came here or no he's still back in

the village and what does he do he's

still in school he's 13 years old 13 so

a younger brother

yes when you see families in Nairobi a

lot they only have two children you're

part of a family of two children do you

think that's the future of

Kenya yeah cuz the economy is quite hard

as it is and having more children is the

one that is leading to all this Street

children a lot of people in not good

businesses like theft and stuff and if

you think of your future you think you

want two children or something different

or maybe no children I'm okay with two

two yeah yeah yeah I understand what do

you watch on

YouTube I do watch podcasts yeah

podcasts Story Time which

podcasts these guys can podcast or

American I know these huge guys in

America like Joe Rogan and Tim

Ferris so yeah like those ones but I

can't recall the names but what do you

find interesting about it like what do

you listen for or what topics the

evolving technology that is coming along

you could say the AI you can see the

people who are privileged on like they

have money they help a lot of people

they just create a random way of

reaching out to people who actually need

their

help so you're interested in Tech what

social media do you

use social media we do have a Tik Tok

yes we do have Instagram we do have a

YouTube WhatsApp as well but which do

you like what's your favorite Tik Tok

all the way because it's more fun yeah

do you make Tik Tok videos I do I

actually do and can you tell us how to

get to them sure what's your site

address it's Hazel Hazel yeah Hazel

Jones Hazel Jones yes on Tik Tok and

what are your videos about mostly it's

about how I spend my days and my work at

roast yeah about how it go about my days

and you do these in English not Bantu or

both both depends sometimes it's dancing

yeah it makes it interesting when you

have a little bit of everything so

you'll dance and then you'll talk

yes and your friends watch the videos

many strangers watch they do they

actually

do when you listen to music what do you

listen

to for me in music it's about the

message conveyed in the music I'm more

of an old soul the worst life kind of

vibe yeah so you listen to rhythm and

blues yes I do Beyonce of course he's

your favorite or my alltime your alltime

favorite yes the lemonade album by her

is one of my favorites oh that is an

amazing one and there's a new one I

forget the title but I think that's

quite good it's a 1970 sound for a lot

of it a lot taken from disco and earlier

musics okay I'll be sure to check that

out and in Kenyon music what do you

listen to I used to listen to a bit of

Bongo you know Bongo of

course yeah yes we do that um we also do

that right

now gon a bit it's the clubbing Vibe do

you listen to Nigerian music yeah they

are afrobats that's very popular now

also in America really absolutely a lot

of big Nigerian stars now in the US on

YouTube most of all ah that is

interesting yeah yeah and you go out to

clubs at night sometimes I do yes and

that's to hear music or to meet people

or how do you think about it just for

fun mostly it's more about having fun

just letting lose a bit from the normal

schedule and work and everything also

it's a nice way to hang out with friends

like you all can catch up and talk about

what has been going on cuz we're all on

different paths right now could you tell

us a little about the restaurant where

you work sure there the restaurant is

roast by

Carnival right now I'm the waiter stroke

Hostess but Hostess is my main thing I

just help out a bit in service

interacting with people cuz as a Hostess

in overall I manage and make sure that

all the guests visiting the restaurant

they are served quite right they have

everything they need yeah and just

checking up on them every once in a

while so you have to oversee the other

staff and make sure that

working well yeah what's the main

mistake sometimes they

make I wouldn't call it a mistake but

when we are a bit overwhelmed you have

like five six tables you're handling and

they all want your attention so you

can't be there all at once so somebody

has to step in to help out and that's

you yeah what kind of food do they

serve mostly it's about Meats we offer

different types of meat Meats do you

serve game like ostrich or just like

beef chicken goat right now we doing the

beef chicken goat but uh in our main

restaurant in carival they offer all

that the world even the

crocodiles is goat your favorite meat no

I'll go with beef beef yeah yeah goat is

more like traditional meat right yeah

for ritual ceremony mhm older people

prefer goat yeah I think they do because

depending on the turnup I see at work on

a daily basis many people prefer to go

for the goats that age do you like

Indian food I hate the spicy Parts too

spicy and maybe you don't like it so

much

yeah you like ugali of course I do

that's the main like your staple food

for breakfast or I wouldn't say that I

will say I'm more into rice but I I do

love ugali cuz where I'm from rice is

like readily available cuz we're just

around the Moa region and that is where

you get the best rice the pishu rice

that's a little unusual for Kenya right

there's more wheat here than rice

overall true but the region where I come

from there's more rice more rice that's

great yeah have you ever had like jolif

rice from Nigeria or Ghana no I it's a

good

dish it's hard to make but I make it

very well in Nigeria okay yeah and the

job you have why did you take that

job okay I took the job cuz one I'm am

passionate about the hospitality

industry I love that the way you go to a

place that is not your own and you meet

different people and you get to get a

treatment that will make you remember

the place and want to go back there over

and over again also in restaurants that

is where you find people people mostly

want to unwind about their days so the

people can be quite talkative and it's

amazing you get to interact with

different people from different places

how ambitious are

you h on a scale of 10 I would say an

8.5 so you want to own your own

restaurant someday of course that would

be a dream come true and what kind of

restaurant would it

be I want to go for a high-end

restaurants

yeah and it would be Kenyon food yes or

something else food from your village a

lot of rice or what's your dream I will

have a mixed match of everything more

like giving the people what they want

cuz from where I'm at I can be able to

see what it is that people love what

they like I can Miz in that you think

you're a good people person like very

friendly Cooperative yeah I can say that

about myself a good

boss yes are you good at getting mad at

them and firing them if you need to fire

them oh not the firing part that one I

leave it to the big bosses but if it's

your restaurant you are the big boss

yeah I will say I love giving people

chances before I am done completely

done why do you think the cost of living

has become so much harder in Nairobi in

the last few

years

the

government what do they do

wrong everything I just have a million

questions I would like to ask them

because the management controls

everything the government governs

everything so they are the ones who are

calling the shots and right now what

they're doing they're pressing on people

so much so you don't think they're

running the country that well yeah and

you think it's a question of voting for

some of other party or you think deep

structural changes are

needed both a little bit of both we

could use both cuz right now we need a

complete change around the government we

need to switch things up a bit so we can

run smoothly like we used to a while

back if people try to start a small

business do you think it's very hard

they need to get a lot of permits spend

a lot of money get licenses or is it

easy

so if you went to start your restaurant

how hard would that be it will be a bit

hard I would say I actually try to start

selling clothes a while back sometime

last year but one and it was a bit

hectic one reaching out to people second

before finding a spot and the permits as

you said so you find the kjo people as

they call them they are quite

distracting for the people who are

trying to start up their businesses and

you your clothing sales was it from a

physical store or online a physical I

used to do physical and also WhatsApp

used to help me a lot by then reach out

to my friends reach out to people from

school you talk a lot on WhatsApp yes I

do yeah yeah so you're very

extroverted uh yeah I can be extroverted

and introvert cuz I'd rather be indoors

all day than go out and have fun why

would you rather be indoors all day

what's your thought there I enjoy my

company and umies yeah and the movies

it's the storyline for me when I start a

movie and I love the storyline I just

want to go with it till the very end

what kind of movies do you like a little

bit of everything it's the story line

for me if it's drama if it's horror if

it's a thriller if it's fun to see but

is it like Bollywood movie Nollywood

movie Kenyon movie Us

movie Hollywood Nollywood us all of

those yes and do you have like a

favorite movie of some kind right now

what I've been following up on is

power power political power or you mean

just people who are

strong it's the story line for me cuz uh

the power started when I was quite a bit

young and I have seen the people who are

acting grow till de and they're still

doing it so I've SE them grow that

industry and the story line is quite

captivating you mean electrical power no

just political power yeah so you like

movies about political power yes do you

think power corrupts people oh it sure

does cuz when you really want the power

you have to go through extreme stuff and

the people who come out of that process

they care too much about power maybe

yeah

you have a Mobile smartphone right yes I

do how much time do you spend on

it given that I work for like 10 hours

in a day I would say spend like four 5

hours maximum and you think that's the

right amount too little too much uh it's

too little sometimes cuz when I'm tired

from work sometimes I don't even look at

my phone I just want to get to bed and

sleep but it makes you happy when you do

it it does and what kind kind of phone

do you have I have a techno spark 8C and

that's Android system or what yes it is

and where where is it

made China yeah

yeah you see a big Chinese influence in

naobi yeah I can say that how do you

think that's going for me I don't think

I have much to say about it I'm just

happy everybody is trying to find their

way cuz when they come and they make

things a bit cheaper for us that is way

that is exactly what we need and they

help create jobs right yes by investing

have you ever been to

America no I haven't what's your main

impression of it from what you see you

can tell the truth I won't be

offended I think it's a nice place but I

will say

the blending in or do I say fitting in

before you actually do familiarize

yourself with everything that goes on

around that could be quite a challenge

do you think we're

crazy sometimes when you all go out on

the black

people

yeah do you think we don't respect our

parents enough no I wouldn't say that

cuz it's all about the

upbringing yeah and it happens in every

place different countries yeah and the

race problems in America what do you

think they come from

technology how so technology cuz your

technology is more advanced it is way

way more advanced than it is in other

places and you think that increases

racism in some ways not

really but the platforms they the fact

that nobody knows who's talking to who

it makes people have the courage to

speak out what they want and not

everything that they do speak out is

good and then they become worse Maybe

over time because they're saying too

much true including you know messaging

services or online yeah do you think the

world will fix that problem or what do

you expect the world can fix it but it

all starts with an individual cuz once

you want to change it and you influence

the people you're hanging out with or

the people you have

around it goes like that and maybe with

time we might see some changes are you

an optimist about Kenya yes I

am do you think you'll live here your

whole life or you'll try to go to Italy

or somewhere

else I wouldn't mind traveling but Kenya

is the place I would like to be like for

living Kenya is the place to be but I

would like to visit other places you

like the climate here everything about

Kenya is amazing the people the food H

especially the

food but not the Indian food not the

Indian

food and in the food have you seen that

change in your lifetime for the food yes

so you've been in Nairobi 12 years how

is it

changing it is changing quite a lot

because with time the people are

forgetting about the indigenous foods

that we used to get at home right now

around Nairobi given that it's more of

um residential place you don't find a

lot a lot of places where people want to

grow this stuff and the thought of

getting them from The Villages and

transporting them to where you are can

be quite hectic cuz some may spoil on

the way their budget may be just not

pocket

friendly so yeah people are more

reliable on the junk food part around

Nairobi than it is around the village

areas do people here think about the

British much this was once a British

colony is that an important issue or

you've all forgotten

history taught us a lot about what

happened in the past yeah but with time

we have seen the changes and by now

people have adjusted to the day-to-day

living do you think being a British

colony was good for Kenya or bad for

Kenya not so good it is an in between

cuz we all had something to learn like

the Christianity mode came along that

time and yeah at least we go to Lear

something from them but they treated

people here very badly yes yes they

did do you go to church I do Christian

yes which branch I'm a Catholic what

makes Catholic appealing to you the

unity there's no much diversity as it is

in the Protestants cuz whatever is being

taught in the American church is

whatever is being taught in The Village

Church

we have the same Bibles the same

readings scriptures for every Sunday

it's programmed that so long as you're

in the Catholic you're getting the same

information do you think fewer canyons

are going to church than

before yes I will say

that and that concerns you or you think

it's okay it does concern me cuz I'm

also affected cuz I work six days in a

week and Sunday is one of the busiest

days you can never never get enough Day

on Sunday so personally for me I would

say it has affected kenyons a lot

workwise yeah if you marry someone you

want your husband to be religious

Catholic or it doesn't matter so much it

doesn't matter so much just if he's a

good person

yeah there's this cult in the south of

Kenya Paul McKenzie I read about this in

the newspapers how do you understand

that what's your sense of what happened

there uh that's a tricky and interesting

topic at the same time but I really

don't get what teaching it is that these

people are getting to the extent that

they can go and undergo the fasting

session and the leader is not undergoing

the same thing you know that is

something that is

controversial

so it is weird I'm not in support of it

yeah we've had things like that happen

in America of course what do you think

of women's rights in Kenya are they

strong

enough yes they are how could women be

treated

better nothing I will say that is not

being done right now you think it's

really pretty good yeah it is cuz in

terms of leadership we're given equal

rights in terms of speaking our minds

out it's allowed I think it's quite okay

you just need to work your way up to the

top

and then for women you think have the

same chances as men yes they do yes are

you worried about any of Kenya's

neighbors so there Somalia Ethiopia a

lot of fighting does this concern you or

it feels very

distant I wouldn't say it's distant

because every Kenyan is a human and I

believe so long as no one is trying to

attack the other one and we're all

trying to live in peace everything is

going to work out quite fine cuz it's

all about the peace and the humanity and

the friendship between the

countries that's a very Catholic view

right yeah it is and Kenya takes in a

lot of refugees how how do you think

that is

going I'm not sure how that is going to

be going in the next few weeks or months

cuz with a GMO cut

outs I don't know how that is going to

work

out how's it work working out with

Uganda as a

neighbor I don't know how they handle it

I haven't read much about

it but if they're doing okay I think

that's good but do you worry that Kenya

is better run than most or all of its

neighbors and that you will receive a

lot of problems through your

borders no you just think Kenya will be

safe it's strong

enough no but I wouldn't say the

management in Kenya is quite as good

good as our neighbors

around I would say we're all working our

way yeah to try to improve lives

around what would you do to improve the

schools

here the

schools curriculum what would you

change I will take it back to the 844

system and what is that

system right now what they're doing it's

called the CBC

they have a variety of things they're

teaching in schools some that were not

even teachable before they're even

teaching PE in schools nowadays and

that's good you think or no it is okay

but right now what people need is to go

on with what they used to do you mean

stricter more math more reading and

writing

yeah just to make sure everyone can read

and write very well

yes I will say that how good do you

think your school

was okay I have been in different

schools in primary and secondary I was

in one

but schools were how do I say

it it all depends with the schools cuz

we have the public sector and the

private sectors and the two can never

match cannot match or even come close

which is

better it is not better but it is

okay but of though the private the

public which of those two kinds of

school gives you the better

education the private of course private

yeah how is it you ended up Curious from

your family from a teacher you were born

that

way for me I just wanted to see more

than just what was around me and coming

to Nairobi was the best

thing if you were to travel somewhere

else but in Africa where would you want

to go the

most in Africa I'll go with

Uganda yes why

Uganda it's just a thing about Uganda

and the way of living there is not as

expensive yeah the people seem very

friendly when I meet them other places

uhhuh yes you have that

impression yeah people can be friendly

but it all depends on the

approach and if you think of visiting

somewhere in Asia where do you think of

going in

Asia that's a funny one let's see that's

a tricky one I'll have to research on

that when Co came here uhhuh how bad was

that for you you were you couldn't go

outside you couldn't meet with friends

or how was it or maybe not so different

how would you describe it it was quite

hard and it actually delayed my school

year I had to extend time in school

comparing to what I would have and it

was tough it was tough

times do you think the country is over

that not really not really yeah so

people are still depressed or upset or

frustrated yeah people right now are

trying to find their way back cuz Co

really affected a bunch of people many

people became jobless relating with one

another became an issue because of the

social

distancing yeah and you stayed here or

you went back to your your home place

actually did both I went back to my

place but I also came back to Nairobi

yeah in your village do you see large

animals very often yes so you see Lions

elephants

giraffes we do have elephants we do have

hyenas not all the animals are there but

we do have some of them and you've seen

them so many times you're not excited or

you're still excited when you see them

it's exciting cuz you know you're not

used to seeing them on a daily basis and

it's always fascinating to see

animals are any of them dangerous for

you yes they are you know our place is

near Kenya like I said and sometimes

they run away from the forests and

they're coming to people's shbl to eat

so it can be a bit scary and which one

is the most scary the elephants all the

way because they're so big and strong

and they might just step on you and

they're fast these things can chase you

so fast yeah are the hippos

scary yes they are they are scary but

you don't get to see see so many of

those around kirinyaga there's just a

lot more elephants

yeah how do you think your village is

doing in terms of its economy are people

getting richer happier or do you think

it's

stuck it's stuck I have been there like

a couple of times and I can't say I have

seen as many changes as I would expect

to see in that span of years why do you

think it's stuck the Curious people

leave yes that is one and the people are

a bit closed-minded about opening up

their minds to things they make it more

superstitial than it should be so they

don't have so much Christianity they

have older

beliefs yes I would say that like what

would be something they might believe

in let me say like in case you're having

disputes or let's see one when you see

an owl they say that somebody's going to

die or something right yeah and they

believe it yeah yeah and sometimes it

actually happens weirdly

enough and how much of your village is

Christian everybody so they blend

Christian and earlier beliefs together

yeah how are women's rights in your

village do you

think the people have not opened up

their mind as they should like I said so

for the women around that place it's

more of like a home BST thing not many

of them go out to look for jobs or even

want to do much about studies they just

know they should stick around at home to

help their husbands and all and raise

children so not so much opportunity yeah

but Nairobi is much better you think yes

it is yeah yeah and you think you'll

always live in or near

Nairobi always could be a tough time but

but mostly yeah and what do you see of

tatto City you work there right yes and

you're optimistic yes I am very much so

you see a lot of progress jobs coming

people visiting

yeah Lex see I got a chance to meet you

yes

maybe your restaurant will be in Tatu

City sometime yeah maybe

hopefully will you encourage your

brother to move here yes I

will you think he might yeah he is very

much

interested did you or he ever think of

moving to Mombasa or some smaller City

or you just think it has to be Nairobi

because it's the best the

biggest you know it's all about giving a

place a chance

cuz coming to kambo for me I mostly came

because of school around the kambo

Institute and me moving to T city was

closer to school and still closer to

where I walk what is Campbell

Institute it's a long C Ro it's a

college and they what is it they

teach mostly it's I would say more of

the physical kind of stuff like they

have business courses like how to build

things yes we also have the hospitality

in the their Hospitality there they do

teach

Hospitality yeah so it's more you

studied

Hospitality no I haven't you want to or

you think you know enough already I only

mind to cuz it is something that I'm

passionate about but what I did in

school was the procurement the Supply

Chain

management what did you learn from that

there's a lot and there's procurement in

almost everything be it hospitals be it

companies be it the

hotels be it schools procurement is

everywhere and it's fascinating how

people do

that do you think you need a degree in

Hospitality to advance further or you

think you can advance just with

experience the school is important the

school beit is important cuz the papers

will also help a great deal but it's all

about it all Narrows down to what you

learn on the ground cuz mostly what is

in the books is not what normally

happens in the places of work it's very

different do you think you'll go back to

school or it's too much a waste of time

I will go back to school but

first I want to learn more learn more on

the job

yeah what kinds of things do you want to

learn you know interacting with people

sure takes a lot of courage and

humility cuz not everybody is quite

friendly some people just come like I

said they want to unwind their days and

sometimes they're not that good cuz they

can be harsh at

times so that part well is something

that I would really like

to impound on the humility part cuz it's

it's it's a bit tricky I will say that

what questions might you have for

me how do you like it in Kenya so far

well this is only my second day so far I

like it very much the Green Vistas are

very beautiful this part of Kenya is

quite

peaceful I've had very good food it's

been good to see Steven again but most

of it I haven't seen so I'm going on

Safari in a bit my wife is coming okay

tomorrow uh and she will join me here

mhm I want to come back sometime and see

the coast see the north so this time I

will only see around here and then

Safari okay and for the food people are

very friendly here and it it feels easy

to me okay that is great and for food

what is one thing that you would like to

try maybe the

meats I once visited Tanzania uhhuh and

I very much like the

ugali now I don't know if it's the same

here but I go to these meals and

westerners they feed me everything but

ugali so I hope I can get some more

ugali oh sure you can pass by roast and

you you'll be sure to get some

okay but unlike you I I like Indian food

I like very spicy we have the spicy part

too yeah so I will do

that on Safari I'm not sure what they

serve me but I think I have no choice

yeah but sure since you're in t City you

might pass by roasts we'll give you the

ugali okay great okay and if you think

about America what is it you wonder

about

America about America is their way of

living their

education how they know so much at a

very young

age they're also quite friendly

Americans they're pretty direct fairly

open I

think

yeah final question what is the next

thing that you want to

learn what is the next thing I want to

learn you know right now the way the

country is evolving I believe it's all

about gaining a skill you need to have

skill cuz

employment the deductions are getting

worse and you'll rather be self-employed

than it is being an

employee so for the skills I would like

to learn more in about technology I

don't want to be left behind I want to

learn more do you use chat GPT by the

way oh yes I do and what do you do with

it I have another few more questions

then um I learned about chat GPT through

a YouTube channel and also I have

colleagues who are so much impressed by

it and I just like the way it makes work

easier for everybody but it also poses

as a threat cuz once you're getting the

AI to do all that stuff for you you

might not need the employees as you do

but do you talk with it does it write

poems for you do you ask it questions

yeah all of those when I have burning

questions when I want to know something

cuz when you're in the night shift I

would say I'm not much of a newspaper

person or

news

so CH is my way to go just more fun yeah

Chad and Tik Tok Harriet Meri thank you

very much you're welcome thank you too

for having me it's a

pleasure thanks for listening to

conversations with Tyler you can

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