Chapter 5 - Rackets and Racketeering

Summary

The transcript discusses the psychological concept of 'racketeering,' where individuals present substitute feelings—often repetitive emotions like sadness, anger, or happiness—rather than their real, underlying emotions, which were suppressed in childhood. This can create frustration as others respond to the surface emotions without addressing the core feelings. The speaker also reflects on personal experiences and therapy, explaining how unacknowledged emotions impact behaviors, and how therapeutic approaches can help people identify and express their true feelings. The conversation touches on psychoanalytic therapy and group therapy, illustrating real-life cases.

Takeaways

• 🌽 The term 'racketeering' in therapy was initially related to repetitive behaviors or attitudes, often seen as a substitute for genuine feelings.
• 🔄 'Racketeering' in therapy is a concept where individuals seek validation or 'strokes' for substitute feelings, which are not genuinely felt but are expressed to gain attention or approval.
• 👨‍⚖️ The concept was developed as a critique of traditional psychoanalytic approaches that the speaker felt were too accepting of these substitute feelings without challenging their authenticity.
• 👶 Substitute feelings or attitudes often originate from childhood experiences where certain emotions were prohibited, ignored, or discounted by caregivers.
• 🔄 The speaker suggests that these substitute feelings are a form of 'racketeering' because individuals are never truly satisfied by the attention they receive for these inauthentic expressions.
• 👥 Group therapy can be particularly effective in identifying and addressing substitute feelings, as group members can provide diverse perspectives and challenge each other's behaviors.
• 📝 The speaker wrote an article detailing the concept of 'substitution factor', where substitute feelings are seen as a coping mechanism developed during childhood to meet emotional needs.
• 👩‍⚕️ Therapists using this concept aim to help clients recognize and express their genuine feelings instead of relying on substitute feelings for validation.
• 🔄 The concept of 'racketeering' is used to explain certain repetitive and unsatisfying patterns in client interactions, such as always being angry or sad, which may mask deeper, unacknowledged emotions.
• 👪 The speaker shares a personal anecdote about how their own substitute feelings of courage masked underlying fears, highlighting how these patterns can be deeply ingrained and不易察觉.

Q & A

What is the origin of the concept 'racketeering' in the context of the transcript?

In the context of the transcript, 'racketeering' is a term used to describe a pattern of behavior where individuals repetitively exhibit certain feelings or attitudes as a substitute for real feelings that were prohibited or ignored during childhood. The term was borrowed from the criminal world, where it refers to the act of extorting money from businesses, and was adapted to describe this psychological phenomenon.

How does the concept of 'racketeering' relate to the idea of seeking 'strokes'?

The concept of 'racketeering' is related to seeking 'strokes' in that individuals who engage in racketeering are often doing so to extract strokes or attention from others. They display repetitive feelings or attitudes to elicit a response, such as sympathy or admiration, which they may not receive for their genuine emotions that were suppressed or ignored in the past.

What is the significance of the term 'substitute feelings' as mentioned in the transcript?

The term 'substitute feelings' refers to the emotions or attitudes that individuals display as a cover for their real, underlying emotions that were not allowed expression during their formative years. These substitute feelings are often repetitive and serve as a means to seek validation or attention, which they may not have received for their genuine feelings.

How does the concept of 'racketeering' challenge traditional psychoanalytic approaches according to the speaker?

The concept of 'racketeering' challenges traditional psychoanalytic approaches by suggesting that the feelings or attitudes patients present in therapy are not always genuine but are often substitutes for real feelings that were suppressed. This perspective differs from the psychoanalytic view that emotions expressed in therapy are authentic and should be supported, even if they are negative.

What is the role of the therapist in addressing 'racketeering' behavior according to the transcript?

The role of the therapist in addressing 'racketeering' behavior, as per the transcript, is to recognize the repetitive substitute feelings and attitudes presented by the patient and to work towards helping the patient acknowledge and express their real, underlying emotions that were previously prohibited or ignored.

Why did the speaker feel 'burned out' in their therapeutic practice, as mentioned in the transcript?

The speaker felt 'burned out' because they were constantly supporting and validating substitute feelings or attitudes in their patients that they believed were not genuine but were instead a result of the patients' need for attention or validation. This repetitive process did not lead to real emotional growth or change, which the speaker found exhausting and unfulfilling.

What is the significance of the 'substitution factor' as discussed in the transcript?

The 'substitution factor' refers to the process by which individuals replace their real feelings with substitute feelings or attitudes that are more socially acceptable or less threatening. This substitution is a coping mechanism developed during childhood to deal with feelings that were not allowed expression, and it often leads to repetitive patterns of behavior in adulthood.

How does the concept of 'racketeering' relate to the development of 'games' in transactional analysis?

In the context of transactional analysis, 'racketeering' relates to the development of 'games' as it describes a series of transactions where an individual repeatedly seeks strokes or attention for substitute feelings, which ultimately leads to unsatisfactory outcomes. These repetitive patterns of transactions are what constitute 'games' in transactional analysis, which are often unproductive and maintain the status quo of unmet emotional needs.

What is the example of 'Tia' mentioned in the transcript and what does it illustrate?

The example of 'Tia' in the transcript illustrates a case where an individual chronically displayed sadness as a substitute for other feelings. Through therapy and support, Tia was able to allow herself to feel happy and cheerful, which were the real feelings she had been suppressing. This example demonstrates the process of uncovering and addressing substitute feelings to access and express genuine emotions.

How does the speaker's personal experience with 'racketeering' as a child influence their understanding of the concept?

The speaker's personal experience with 'racketeering' as a child, where they were expected to feel happy and courageous instead of expressing their fear and sadness about leaving their home, influenced their understanding of the concept by providing a personal insight into how substitute feelings can be ingrained from an early age. This personal history helped the speaker to empathize with clients who exhibited similar patterns of behavior.

Outlines

00:00

🌟 Understanding Racket and Emotional Substitution

This paragraph discusses the concept of 'racketeering' in psychology, which refers to repetitive behaviors or attitudes that are substitutes for real feelings. The speaker explains how some individuals exhibit exaggerated emotions to elicit responses from others, particularly therapists. The term 'racket' was coined by Eric Berne, who likened these behaviors to the extortion tactics of gangsters. The speaker reflects on Berne's views and how they challenged the psychoanalytic establishment's expectations of supporting all feelings presented by patients. The paragraph also touches on the speaker's disagreement with Berne's approach, emphasizing the importance of understanding the origins of these repetitive attitudes in childhood.

05:02

📚 The Substitution Factor in Emotional Expression

The speaker delves into their article on the 'substitution factor,' which explores how individuals substitute their real feelings with others due to childhood experiences. They provide an example of a chronically sad colleague who was unable to allow herself to be happy, illustrating the concept of emotional substitution. The paragraph explains how these emotional substitutions often stem from early developmental stages and are a response to parental expectations or societal norms. The speaker also discusses the impact of these substitutions on therapy and personal relationships, highlighting the importance of recognizing and addressing the underlying, unacknowledged emotions.

10:03

🔄 The Dynamics of Racketeering in Relationships

This paragraph examines the transactional nature of 'racketeering,' where individuals seek validation or 'strokes' for their substitute feelings but remain unsatisfied because the real feelings are unaddressed. The speaker contrasts this with Berne's concept of 'game,' which is seen as a series of transactions leading to a predictable outcome. The paragraph also touches on the speaker's transition from psychoanalytic therapy to a more transactional approach due to feelings of burnout. The speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding the underlying real feelings and the role of the therapist in addressing these, rather than just supporting the substitute feelings.

15:14

🎁 The Role of Envy and Jealousy in Emotional Racketeering

The speaker recounts a group therapy session where a new client, Anna, gives a departing member, Susie, an expensive gift in an attempt to gain recognition and admiration. This act is identified as a 'racket,' where Anna's underlying emotions of envy and jealousy are masked by a gesture of generosity. The paragraph highlights the importance of recognizing and addressing these underlying emotions, rather than just the substitute behavior. The speaker also discusses the benefits of group therapy, where other group members can provide insights and support in understanding and confronting these emotions.

20:19

👶 Childhood Influences on Adult Emotional Racketeering

In this paragraph, the speaker reflects on their own emotional 'racket,' which involved substituting fear with a more acceptable behavior of courage or denial. They share a personal story of moving from Romania to Turkey as a child and feeling a sense of loss for their grandparents, which was not acknowledged by their mother. This led the speaker to suppress their fear and adopt a façade of courage. The paragraph concludes with the speaker's realization of how childhood experiences shape adult emotional responses and the importance of recognizing and addressing these early emotional patterns.

Keywords

💡Racketeering

In the context of the video, 'racketeering' refers to a psychological concept where individuals exhibit repetitive attitudes or feelings that serve as substitutes for genuine emotions that were suppressed or ignored during childhood. The term is borrowed from the criminal world, where it describes the act of extorting money through force or threats. In therapy, 'racketeering' behaviors are identified as patterns that individuals use to seek attention or validation, often leading to dissatisfaction as the underlying, real emotions are not being addressed. For example, a person might constantly express anger as a substitute for unacknowledged feelings of sadness or fear.

💡Strokes

In the video, 'strokes' are defined as the positive reinforcement or acknowledgment that people seek from others, particularly in a therapeutic setting. The term is used to describe the need for validation, sympathy, or admiration that individuals may express through their 'racketeering' behaviors. The video discusses how individuals might repetitively exhibit certain feelings or attitudes to elicit these 'strokes' from others, which can become a pattern of behavior that masks their true emotional needs.

💡Substitute Feelings

'Substitute feelings' are emotions or attitudes that individuals display as a cover for their real, underlying feelings that were not allowed expression during their formative years. The video explains that these substitute feelings are often repetitive and are used to extract 'strokes' from others. For instance, someone might always appear happy and content to receive positive reinforcement, even though they might be hiding deeper feelings of sadness or disappointment.

💡Transactional Analysis

Transactional Analysis is a method of psychological treatment that is briefly mentioned in the video. It involves understanding social transactions and how they relate to an individual's psychological state. The video discusses how 'racketeering' and the expression of 'substitute feelings' can be analyzed within the framework of transactional analysis to uncover the underlying, real emotions that are being masked.

💡Burns

In the video, 'Burns' refers to a specific therapist or school of thought within the field of psychology. The speaker discusses their disagreement with Burns' approach to handling 'racketeering' behaviors, indicating a broader debate within the therapeutic community about how to address these patterns effectively. Burns' approach is criticized for not fully acknowledging the legitimacy of the feelings that clients present.

💡Developmental Stage

The 'developmental stage' mentioned in the video refers to the critical periods in childhood during which children form their emotional and behavioral patterns. The video suggests that 'racketeering' behaviors and 'substitute feelings' often originate from experiences during these stages, particularly when certain feelings are prohibited, ignored, or discounted by caregivers.

💡Substitution Factor

The 'substitution factor' is a concept introduced in the video to explain how individuals replace their real feelings with substitute ones due to early childhood experiences. This concept is central to understanding the video's theme of how people's emotional expressions can be influenced by their past and how these substitutions can lead to repetitive, unsatisfying patterns of behavior.

💡Psychoanalytic Establishment

The 'psychoanalytic establishment' is a reference to the traditional psychoanalytic community and its methods. The video discusses a conflict between this establishment and the speaker's approach to therapy, particularly regarding the handling of 'racketeering' behaviors and the acknowledgment of real versus substitute feelings.

💡Denial

'Denial' in the video is discussed as a psychological defense mechanism where individuals refuse to accept their true feelings or reality. It is related to the concept of 'racketeering' as it can lead to the expression of substitute feelings instead of confronting and acknowledging the real emotions that are being denied.

💡Group Therapy

Group therapy is mentioned as a setting where 'racketeering' behaviors and substitute feelings can be observed and addressed. The video highlights the advantage of group settings in providing a supportive environment where individuals can gain insights into their emotional patterns and the underlying feelings that they have been substituting.

Highlights

The concept of 'racketeering' in therapy is introduced, relating to repetitive behaviors or attitudes.

Racketeering is likened to a transaction where individuals seek validation for substitute feelings instead of their true emotions.

The origin of the term 'racketeering' in therapy is discussed, drawing a parallel to the behavior of gangsters extorting money.

Therapists are encouraged to recognize and address the underlying true feelings behind a patient's substitute emotions.

The concept of 'substitution factor' is introduced, explaining how certain attitudes are adopted as substitutes for real feelings.

An example is given of a patient who was chronically sad, illustrating the substitution of real feelings with sadness.

The development of substitute feelings is often rooted in childhood experiences where certain emotions were ignored or discouraged.

The impact of family dynamics on the formation of racketeering behaviors is explored.

The speaker shares a personal anecdote about their own experience with substitute feelings, specifically the substitution of fear with courage.

The concept of 'rackets' is expanded to include not just emotions but also attitudes and behaviors that are substitutes for real feelings.

The importance of recognizing and validating a patient's true feelings rather than their substitute emotions is emphasized.

A case study is discussed where a patient's substitute behavior led to relationship issues with her boyfriend.

The speaker's article on the substitution factor is mentioned, which delves deeper into the concept and its implications in therapy.

The idea that substitute feelings can be a form of self-protection against more vulnerable emotions is presented.

The concept of 'racketeering' is linked to the broader therapeutic process, including the role of group therapy and the dynamics within it.

The speaker reflects on their own therapeutic approach and how it differs from traditional psychoanalytic methods.

The impact of the concept of racketeering on the speaker's personal and professional life is discussed.

The transcript concludes with a discussion on the broader implications of substitute feelings and racketeering in therapy and personal development.

Transcripts

okay so funny though we still have some

some of your concepts which we haven't

one of us made a very important concept

of racketeering so it's in origin it's

not it's related to corn is it right or

yes actually what happened is there was

a category of patients or clients or

people who exasperated and there were

the people who exhibited for me

attitudes or feelings and I think

everybody is it's a wonderful day I'm so

happy oh we all need to be the video

happy you're glad what life is wonderful

and so on and you hear that it's falling

and it's exasperated but they keep going

on living it's repetitive or the earner

another kind of person is going to be

repetitive about sad things on you know

I'm sorry I just can't enjoy things yes

you go ahead and enjoy but my life is

whatever and these are repetitive

feelings and they were sort of looked

like I exported to extract strokes

I mean indications to the other person

especially to the therapist in order to

say oh when happy person

oh yes it's wonderful that you can look

at life this way

stroke the person for that or else the

person or the angry person

yes I'm just a little angry however and

so on there would be a lot of time on

them

well this is falling of course he

believed that if he explained really

people stayed hey look this is only an

exaggerator then who said that so many

times and he sort of got to come to the

out of it

and finally he said these are rats and

the world records as most people know

that is a food of gangsters who extorted

money from businessmen for the

and he used to be quite a leader Ian you

know we refused to offer strokes or

sympathy or whatever or admiration

whatever the case and I always felt a

little uncomfortable because look

patients didn't believe that they have

these feelings burn claim they do we do

not feel this way and indeed well go

back to that I was going to say that

indeed very many people come into

treatment because they have exactly and

I think it was a part of burns fight

also the psychoanalytic establishment

because you thought that the service is

expected to show support for feelings or

not accused which he felt were for real

which did sound and appear to be for

real okay and this was kind of a running

argument as we know

no I trained with Bernie and I was

already mature therapists have worked

for a number of years it was difficult

for me to always agree with him but I

think we quite know how I disagreed and

why I disagreed the buckler active state

I felt but about these are active

supporters

meaning people are fanatics so at the

conclusion of my therapy oh my training

was brooding about this and I realized

in working with other clients that

brackets what he called rapid these

repetitive folding feelings which would

be the nominee and attitudes that these

were substitutes for other feelings that

suppose he didn't there yes and as you

know my emphasis was on how we adopt for

instance about survival conclusions our

certain attitudes repetitive attitudes

refer to certain attitudes of feelings

that was cooked in the past during

childhood and this looked to me as

though that's what he called methods

were substitutes for other feelings

which

and I have an article like them and so I

ended up writing an article which I

wanted to submit to burn and this is my

first article on the subject it's called

the substitution factor brackets and

with real feelings and we have a link on

this journal and in it I describe the

piece of there who was a friend a

colleague who was chronically sad sad

sad sad and I realized at the certain

point that she never allowed herself to

be happy and cheerful and I realized

this is detailed in the article that

really got a sadness Otto keen on that

she really wanted to be cheerful and

happy and so I don't thought this

article and I don't talk about other

typical so-called records or hostility

record for instance Joe is always angry

always my son has a chip on his shoulder

yes this makes me throw fearless and

actually sometimes it was because Joe

was touched and warmer feelings

so it's loose records are often

established at this very sensitive

developmental stage between two and four

and five and they are substitutes this

is now my definition which was not

Byrnes definition rackets are

substitutes for real feelings and

attitudes which are prohibited which

were prohibited or ignored or discounted

during childhood mother or father or

whoever was with catechist to create you

don't really feel this way

name the feeling better so typical

following a typical cheating or attitude

for instance would be jealousy and

instead the older child looking at the

younger child and feeling envious or

jealous or competitive or whatever and

it would be happier painful man or

father or somebody to mean I want to see

you descend on you're jealous so you

don't like the fact that Susie is

getting all this attention it's kept

mother and father would ignore it and

say oh you're really loving each other

love your little sister brother you are

oh it's so personal for being loving and

so the grown up Susie would show how a

loving she was whenever she was jealous

well how'd you notice she was whenever

she's somewhere just the opposite

behavior issues she has to show actually

teaching yeah oblige yourself yeah

that's right that's right and this same

poses a lot lots of problems for the

Bruno for instance I remember a client

who had a lot of problems with the

fiancee with her boyfriend because he

wanted to do something nice for her and

he invited her to dinner and gave her

his order favorite dish which he had

smiled and said was favorite dish

actually she eat at that dish but she

did not allow herself to didn't know

that she disliked that and she could not

be honest and open with him so I said

before I wrote this article and they get

a full burn but and was going to prison

him to be there for some accountants of

1970 and he died just before the summer

conference in 1970 and he had set up he

had set up the journal was going to

start before that he had a bulletin yes

anyway so the new editors of the German

have no articles to publish and so they

insisted on publishing this article and

so they published this article

substitution factor in one issue and

then another part of the article would I

detail other substitute feelings in a

second issue of the journal and I some

of it is outdated when you read it but I

think you'll get a kind of sense about

this substitute and also you'll get the

example of Tia who substituted in that

time do you have an and the words

racketeering became I would think we

have not yet not use the word

racketeering you said they're playing it

either so this is a

racketeering and racketeering is the

transaction whereby a person once

strokes for the substitute feeling but

since it's a substitute presentation and

they get stopped for the rori feeling or

attitude they're never satisfied

and this is why it's competitive and so

the cause although the protectiveness is

precisely the fact that the expression

of this feeling and attitude is stored

on an expression and does not gratify

well yes because as a result of thank

you for Sandra because as a result of

developing this concept of racketeering

which is a transaction on the apparatus

a suit I I spelled out how my concept of

beings is very different and that the

beam ending is not very planned as burn

implies win but is the unfortunate

result when a transaction is crossed

because the partner is sick and tired of

offering strokes for something which is

felt and is obviously of course

artificial kind of

the article that I would like you to

read now if you want to pursue the topic

yes the article practice as as rackets

in relation to games and this is also to

this presentation if you want to

understand the topic I think that that's

that's the way to read it and that

explains also how I conceptualize games

that it is like now about you son of a

is the end of a series of

transactions where the racketeer fails

together strokes he or she wants for the

real feelings and keeps going business

and I mentioned a business before some

business world as well

whatever chanting and so very first

minutes somebody as they are racketeer

sometimes they play the best of Ortega

Hannah what I think would be the best

but their fears follow and it doesn t

years exactly substantial and that one

of the points but you get coaching you

know we are looking for what kind of

racketeering

that's the coachee very moment but

usually able to try or she would try to

to get some strokes or some

acknowledgement from from the coach is

paid for yeah acknowledgments that and

therefore you get racketeering game I

would say yeah in fact with hindsight I

know that the main reason why I switched

from psychoanalytic therapy

it's not called psychoanalytic supported

to is because I was beginning to feel

burned out and I was feeling burned out

this is a kind of a message I'd like to

be able to purchase and to

- therapist that very often approach

your therapist talk about myself I began

to feel burned out because I was I was

the wife was difficult and so I would

say yes yes understand and my patients

were happy to keep paying for these

sessions we paid on and on and they said

they did he placed me that he hurt me

and I hated the sense of constantly

supporting what I now know was about

like that or that the process of

appearing I can accept you show me some

tea or should I give you an example of

funny then we just tell you a story and

then through the group and we have Susie

who's ending her group attending and

it's our last session and she's saying

goodbye to everybody and she's obviously

very fortunate she's got a good

boyfriend and she's happy and living and

gotten children gifts from the

and this is Emma who is a new client I

was just coming in I has a lot of

problems and these financial problems

and all kinds of other problems and I

know where there's a very beautiful belt

which she had mentioned that she had

bought with her savings and a lot of

money and as Suzy leaves Anna goes up to

her and says Suzie I want you to have

this gift for me the belt and I

start up this was totally soft I mean

there was no reason for a lot to give

Susan them present they weren't friends

they just met and I was showing off so

this was a typical racket and poor Anna

was hoping to get lots of strokes

worship and recognition for this great

generous gift this was going to show how

to generous she was but underneath it

there was an to be some kind of healing

so of course I guess that's the that's

the challenge for the couch all of this

I guess that she was feeling images of

Suzy

I mean Suzy has everything and Suzy has

everything in her and booze and gives

her walk worship or others nothing

so instead of being able to articulate

even for herself

I'm how to deal with it yeah yeah yeah

if you want to talk to work with the

best visit the flash of intuition

I'm hardly knew her I said that you had

a younger sister because I thought that

there's a parallel yes she said and how

did you get along oh we got a lot of

beautifully anybody thought we were

twins she was a year younger than me

to the same class but people thought we

were twins and I was so proud of her for

being so smart I mean look at that how

could she be proud of her

well obviously it had been instilled

into her that she had to be proud

instead of Jerusalem and I said oh no

such thing

now this woman back professional was a

sociologist she knew the words she did

not know it for herself she was shocked

by my reference to envy and jealousy

that's funny because she knew is

radically so we talked about in a

professional sense that's right that's

right and more in general I think is to

discover what is the feeling emotions

with the underlining emotions and - yeah

please for having some kind and

supportive and whatever else now this

has nothing to do exactly with rockets

but I'll put in a little point there

about the advantage of working in groups

because it was so good to have other

people in the group say oh I would have

felt few yourself like jealous envious I

would have felt this that the other

and I was looking with Greek eyes he

couldn't imagine that she could not walk

this way anyway so here is an example

and treatment office also

for it and the story of CI which when

you will read it in in this article

shows you how with support via allowed

herself to feel good and happy at times

not always whenever when at times where

she felt obliged to feel sad because

this was expected of her in childhood

but I'll say one more thing the funny

thing is that you know the teen

community I am known as the person who

is the expert on brackets but I'm not

but records are not well-defined very

many people we find amazing is there are

repetitive feelings or attitudes or

fourth season which come in and are

expressed and articulated as substitutes

for some kind of a thought or feeling

which was not permitted

and not even

thank you here's a little personal item

as long as we're doing all this charlie

so this is let's say my my theory and my

contribution its years later that I

realized that I carry the baggage and my

rabbit was the rapid approach for fear

substituting for fear and I don't know

how distracted originated now I'm

letters were preserved myself as a

finish here and that had to do with the

fact that we moved rather precipitously

from Romania we mean my mother and

father and my son to Turkey when I was

four years old and for me my my

grandfather so it was very difficult for

my mother to accept the fact that I felt

very centered about my aunt and

grandfather and really was not happy now

to that we were a reconstituted family

and that I now had my mother and father

the father who I just met when I was

four years old instead of the

grandfather my daughter didn't want her

to leave behind so my mother would keep

saying it'll get wonderful with her

family

we are not there isn't that great and

expressing

and so I was courageous or whatever it

was I was sort of accepting what was she

pleased me for that and whenever I said

something implied that I missed it

and the funny thing is that you can

define the way I subsequently behave now

as a grownup as denial that during the

war instead of fear I often just sort of

shrugged it off and said well you know

it's not so scary after all and I know

that it was about it and I didn't know

it was so my point here is that as I

useful maybe character and talents which

are really strong very useful sides but

if you play too often looks like

and quite appropriate behavior but but

it isn't anymore

yeah in its terms in racketeering so

right so there's both sides of balance

yes and they're forcing particulars and

all board a story in in France and money

additive free to fly yeah that was very

helpful that you were correct yes and

even when you suppress you yeah clean

that I was not afraid

no that was afraid yeah and therefore I

think yes after look very sensitive yeah

on what isn't something the strong sighs

the strong certain sometimes a strong

transom all right here that's right and

nowadays my daughter accuses me very

portion of the arm which is very funny I

never connected denial what that classic

psychoanalytic Bihar with rackets but

actually denial is a denial of cert

feelings is other all right

that's kind of a new contribution I have

never quite described it before thank

you