La folle histoire de la mondialisation [Isabelle Bensidoun]

Summary

In this interview, Isabelle discusses the graphic novel 'La Folie Histoire de la Mondialisation' with Thibault, an economist at CEPII, and co-author of the book. The novel, which uses characters like Mick Jagger to explain globalization, highlights the historical progression and complexities of globalization. It addresses common misconceptions and aims to provide a balanced view, showing how globalization is influenced by political decisions and can take different forms. The discussion also touches on the current phase of globalization, post-2008 financial crisis, marked by a more pragmatic approach and focus on issues like inequality, tax evasion, and climate change.

Takeaways

• 🎸 Mick Jagger's lyrics from 'You Can't Always Get What You Want' are used to illustrate the setbacks and eventual successes in the liberalization process of globalization.
• 🌐 The comic book format is chosen for its pedagogical value, aiming to clarify the complex history and mechanisms of globalization in an accessible way.
• 📚 The book 'La Folle Histoire de la Mondialisation' is co-signed by Thibault, an economist at CEPII, and is published by Les Arènes, aiming to provide a nuanced view of globalization.
• 🔄 The narrative of globalization is divided into distinct periods: the 19th-century mass immigration to the United States, the post-1960s era marked by containerization, and a potential new phase post-2008 financial crisis.
• 🚧 The 1990s and 2000s were characterized by an 'hyper-globalization', which has since given way to a more cautious and pragmatic approach.
• 🏭 The book discusses the failures of multilateral agreements like the OECD's Multilateral Agreement on Investment and the expansion of the IMF's role in capital movements.
• 🌍 Despite the setbacks, the narrative shows a shift towards bilateral agreements and the protection of foreign investors, mirroring the initially failed multilateral efforts.
• 🔄 The concept of 'glocalization' is introduced, reflecting a period where capital and trade flows have slowed, and there's a reassessment of globalization's impacts.
• 🌱 There's a growing recognition of the negative effects of globalization, including job and wage impacts, inequality, tax evasion by multinationals, and the rise of populist and far-right parties.
• 🛑 The current phase of globalization is described as less ideological, with a focus on pragmatic measures like carbon border adjustments and a minimum tax agreement for multinationals.

Q & A

What is the unique format of the book 'La folle histoire de la mondialisation'?

The book 'La folle histoire de la mondialisation' is unique in its format as it combines the educational approach of a manual with the engaging storytelling of a graphic novel, making complex economic concepts more accessible to readers.

Why was Mick Jagger included as a character in the graphic novel?

Mick Jagger is included as a character to symbolize the failed attempts to further liberalize globalization in the late 1990s. His song 'You Can't Always Get What You Want' is used metaphorically to describe how, despite setbacks, the process of globalization continued through alternative means such as bilateral agreements.

What were the setbacks to globalization mentioned in the interview?

The setbacks to globalization mentioned include the failure of the OECD's Multilateral Agreement on Investment, the expansion of the IMF's role to capital movements, and the failure of the Seattle conference and the Doha Round of trade negotiations.

How does the book address the need for pedagogy on globalization?

The book addresses the need for pedagogy on globalization by aiming to provide a balanced view of the subject, challenging received ideas, and explaining the mechanisms, history, and effects of globalization to help readers move beyond simplistic pro or con approaches.

What are the two periods of globalization defined in the book?

The two periods of globalization defined in the book are: 1) from the massive immigration to the United States in the 19th century up to World War I, and 2) starting from the 1960s with the advent of containerization, which was a decisive element for globalization.

How does the interviewee describe the current phase of globalization post-2008 financial crisis?

The interviewee describes the current phase of globalization as a new season, moving away from the hyper-globalization of the 1990s and 2000s towards a more pragmatic approach that acknowledges the negative effects of globalization on employment, wages, and inequality, and considers measures like carbon border adjustments and minimal taxation of multinationals.

What is the significance of the term 'glocalisation' mentioned in the script?

The term 'glocalisation' signifies a period where the flows of capital and commerce have slowed down, reflecting a shift in globalization's approach towards more localized and strategic considerations, such as relocalization for strategic products and technologies.

What is the role of political decisions in shaping globalization according to the book?

Political decisions play a crucial role in shaping globalization, as they can either regulate or stimulate it, leading to different forms of globalization than what is currently known.

Why was the graphic novel format chosen for this book on globalization?

The graphic novel format was chosen to make the subject of globalization more engaging and understandable to a wider audience, using storytelling and visual elements to convey complex economic and historical information.

What is the message conveyed by the use of the Rolling Stones' song in the book?

The use of the Rolling Stones' song 'You Can't Always Get What You Want' conveys the message that despite the setbacks in globalization, alternative paths can be found to achieve the desired outcomes, reflecting the adaptability and resilience of globalization processes.

How does the book suggest the future of globalization might look like?

The book suggests that the future of globalization might be less dogmatic and more balanced, with a focus on addressing the negative effects of previous phases and promoting a more equitable and strategic approach to global economic integration.