Brazelton (Part 2), The Basic Needs of Children

Summary

In this policy watch episode, Dr. T. Barry Brazelton, a renowned pediatrician and child development expert, discusses the importance of affordable childcare and the impact of single parenthood on American society. He emphasizes the significance of parent-child attachment, the role of nature and nurture in child development, and the necessity of supporting parents in their crucial role. Brazelton introduces the 'Touchpoints' program, which aims to empower parents by viewing them as allies in their child's developmental journey, rather than focusing on their deficiencies. The conversation also touches on the challenges faced by parents, particularly those from underserved communities, and the need for a multidisciplinary approach to support families.

Takeaways

• 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 The increasing need for affordable childcare is a pressing issue, especially with the rise in single-parent households.
• 👶 Dr. T. Barry Brazelton emphasizes the importance of understanding child development and parent-child attachment.
• 🌐 Dr. Brazelton's 'Touch Points' theory suggests that parents and children go through developmental spurts and periods of regression together.
• 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 The 'Touch Points' program aims to support parents and children by training professionals to view parent-child relationships positively and collaboratively.
• 🌱 Dr. Brazelton advocates for a shift from a deficit model to a positive model in child development, recognizing the non-linear and multi-dimensional nature of growth.
• 👵 The role of grandparents in child development is highlighted as significant, yet often overlooked in many programs.
• 🏥 Dr. Brazelton discusses the challenges faced by parents in providing discipline and setting limits for their children, especially when both parents work outside the home.
• 🏛️ The interview touches on the need for institutional change, including more involvement of parents in schools and medical decisions.
• 🏢 The importance of community support and multidisciplinary teams in providing comprehensive care for children and families is emphasized.
• 🤝 Dr. Brazelton stresses the need for a collaborative approach between professionals and parents, rather than a prescriptive one.
• 📉 Dr. Brazelton has been involved in advocating for policies like parental leave, early intervention, and childcare, but finds the current political climate discouraging for such initiatives.

Q & A

What is the main focus of the Norman and Florence Brody Family Foundation?

The main focus of the Norman and Florence Brody Family Foundation is to explore topics of national and international importance.

What is the role of Dr. T. Barry Brazelton in the field of child development?

Dr. T. Barry Brazelton is a leading expert on pediatrics and child development, focusing on child-parent attachment, infant and parental behavior across cultures, and intervention with at-risk infants and parents.

What does Dr. Brazelton believe about the nature versus nurture debate?

Dr. Brazelton believes that nature and nurture cannot be divided; he refers to it as a 'developmental duet,' emphasizing the impact of the environment on a fetus during pregnancy.

How does Dr. Brazelton suggest expectant mothers understand their baby's development?

Dr. Brazelton suggests that expectant mothers keep a time diary for 24 hours, which helps them understand their baby's or fetus's experiences and prepares them for the baby's behavior after birth.

What is the significance of the 'Touch Points' program initiated by Dr. Brazelton?

The 'Touch Points' program is designed to join parents as allies in the system of child development, taking a more positive view of parent-child relations rather than a deficit orientation.

How does Dr. Brazelton define 'Touch Points' in child development?

Dr. Brazelton defines 'Touch Points' as times just before a child takes a spurt in development where both the child and the parent may fall apart, and support is crucial for their reorganization.

What is the importance of involving parents in child development according to Dr. Brazelton?

According to Dr. Brazelton, involving parents is crucial as they play a significant role in their child's development. He emphasizes the need for a team approach that includes parents to give the child a future.

How does Dr. Brazelton view the role of discipline in child development?

Dr. Brazelton views discipline as teaching rather than punishment. He emphasizes that it is a long-term process and is essential for parents to work at it, even though it can be challenging, especially for those working outside the home.

What changes has the use of sonograms brought to the perception of fetal development, according to the discussion?

The use of sonograms, especially three-dimensional color ones, can be both fascinating and frightening. They can be unreliable and may not accurately reflect the fetus's condition, but they also reinforce the reality of the baby and its responses to light and sound.

What is the key message Dr. Brazelton conveys about the importance of parents in child development?

Dr. Brazelton conveys that parents are integral to child development and that they need support and understanding, especially when facing challenges like working outside the home or dealing with at-risk children.

What is Dr. Brazelton's stance on the involvement of parents in public schools and medical settings?

Dr. Brazelton believes that parents have been unjustly pushed out of public schools and medical settings, and there is a need to involve them again to support child development and well-being.

Outlines

00:00

👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 The Need for Affordable Child Care

The first paragraph discusses the growing necessity for affordable childcare as the number of single parents increases. It introduces Dr. T. Barry Brazelton, a renowned expert in pediatrics and child development, who joins Doug Basharov on 'Policy Watch' to discuss this issue. Dr. Brazelton shares his early inspiration to become a pediatrician, influenced by his grandmother and his experience caring for his cousins. The conversation also touches on the importance of parent-child attachment and the impact of prenatal experiences on child development. Dr. Brazelton emphasizes the 'Nature plus nurture' debate, arguing that nature and nurture are inseparable and both significantly influence a child's development.

05:01

🤱 The Importance of Parent-Child Relationships

Paragraph two delves into the challenges modern parents face, particularly those who work outside the home, and the guilt and frustration they experience due to limited time with their children. Dr. Brazelton introduces the concept of 'Touchpoints,' which are critical moments in a child's development that, if recognized and supported by parents, can lead to better outcomes. He discusses the importance of discipline as teaching rather than punishment and the difficulty parents face in enforcing limits, especially after a long day at work. The conversation also highlights the need for quality time and communication between parents and children, even when both are tired.

10:03

🌟 The Power of Community Support

In the third paragraph, the discussion shifts to the impact of community support on parenting, particularly in underserved populations. Dr. Brazelton shares his experiences working in Harlem and with North American Indian communities, emphasizing how community involvement can enhance parenting skills and child development. He talks about the 'Harlem Children Zone' and how focusing on the baby can ignite passion in parents, even in challenging circumstances. The paragraph also touches on the importance of modeling positive interactions for parents, such as smiling while changing a diaper, to create positive experiences for both parents and children.

15:04

🔄 Paradigm Shift in Parenting and Child Development

Paragraph four discusses the need for a paradigm shift from a deficit model to a positive model of parenting and child development. Dr. Brazelton explains the concept of multi-dimensional development, where different aspects of a child's development—motor, cognitive, and emotional—occur at different times, leading to periods of regression before a developmental spurt. He stresses the importance of understanding these natural cycles to support children and parents effectively. The conversation also highlights the need for a team approach involving parents, professionals, and the community to provide the necessary support for children's development.

20:05

🏛️ Institutional Changes for Family Support

The fifth paragraph addresses the need for institutional changes to better support families, particularly in areas like divorce and child custody. Dr. Brazelton criticizes the court system for not considering the child's need for stability and continuity, using a Christmas Day visitation example. He argues for a multidisciplinary team approach to handle such sensitive family issues. The discussion also touches on the need for services that respect and empower underserved families, such as teen mothers, and the importance of involving the entire family, including grandparents, in support programs.

25:05

🌱 Early Intervention and Education for Parents

In the final paragraph, Dr. Brazelton emphasizes the importance of early intervention and education for parents to support child development. He discusses the need for resources and programs that target the early years when brain development is most rapid. The conversation also highlights the importance of engaging grandparents and other family members in support programs. Dr. Brazelton shares an example of an innovative program that involved high school students in childcare, leading to positive outcomes. The paragraph concludes with a call for a lifetime of education for parents, politicians, and professionals to better support families.

Keywords

💡Child care

Child care refers to the care, supervision, and nurturing of children by a person other than their parents, typically in a daycare setting or by a babysitter. In the video, the increasing need for affordable child care is discussed as a societal trend, especially with the rise in single-parent households. The conversation highlights the importance of child care providers in shaping the future of a nation's child development infrastructure.

💡Pediatrics

Pediatrics is the branch of medicine that deals with the medical care of infants, children, and adolescents. Dr. T Barry Brazelton, a leading expert on Pediatrics mentioned in the script, focuses on child development and the importance of parent-child attachment. His insights into child behavior and development are central to the discussion about nurturing and discipline in the video.

💡Attachment

Attachment in child development refers to the emotional bond between a child and a caregiver, typically the parent. The script discusses how Dr. Brazelton's focus on attachment and parental behavior is crucial for understanding the child's development across different cultures. It's highlighted as a key aspect of the 'Touch Points' program which aims to support parents in their child-rearing journey.

💡Nature versus nurture

The nature versus nurture debate is a classic discussion in psychology about whether certain aspects of behavior are a product of either inherited (i.e., genetic) or acquired (i.e., environmental) factors. Dr. Brazelton refers to it as a 'developmental duet,' suggesting that both nature and nurture are inseparable and interactive forces in child development, as illustrated by the influence of the mother's behavior on the fetus during pregnancy.

💡Sonograms

A sonogram, also known as an ultrasound, is a medical imaging technique that uses high-frequency sound waves to create live visual images of developing babies in the womb. The script mentions that while modern 3D color sonograms can be informative, they can also be frightening and are not as reliable as one might hope. They can, however, reinforce the reality of the developing fetus and its responsiveness to stimuli.

💡Touch Points

Touch Points, as discussed in the script, is a program or rather an idea initiated by Dr. Brazelton. It aims to support parents by recognizing moments just before a child's developmental spurt, when the child might exhibit signs of regression. The concept is to reassure parents that this is a normal part of development, encouraging a positive and collaborative approach to parenting.

💡Discipline

In the context of the video, discipline refers to teaching children self-control and boundaries, rather than punishment. Dr. Brazelton emphasizes the importance of discipline as a fundamental aspect of child-rearing, second only to love. He points out the difficulty modern parents face in enforcing discipline, especially when they have limited time with their children due to work commitments.

💡Multi-disciplinary team

A multi-disciplinary team is a group of professionals from various fields working together to achieve a common goal. In the script, the idea of involving such teams in family court decisions is proposed to better address the complex needs of children, especially in cases of divorce. This approach is suggested as a way to provide more comprehensive and child-centered support.

💡Underserved families

Underserved families are those that lack access to necessary resources and services, often due to factors like poverty, cultural barriers, or systemic neglect. The video discusses the need for specialized services and programs that cater to the unique challenges faced by these families, such as teen mothers, to ensure they receive the support required for their children's development.

💡Divorce and child custody

Divorce and child custody are legal matters that arise from marital separation, determining the living situation and legal rights of parents over their children. The script criticizes how courts often fail to consider the child's need for stability and continuity, suggesting a need for a more child-centered approach to custody decisions.

💡Grandparents

Grandparents can play a crucial role in the upbringing of children, especially in single-parent or underserved families. The script mentions the importance of engaging grandparents in child-rearing programs, recognizing their potential to provide additional support and care. An example given is a program that involves high school students in childcare, potentially preparing them for future parenting roles.

Highlights

The need for affordable child care is increasing as the percentage of single parents rises.

Dr. T. Barry Brazelton discusses the importance of child and parent attachment.

Brazelton's focus on infant and parental behavior across cultures.

The impact of a mother's behavior during pregnancy on the fetus.

Expectant mothers keeping a time diary to understand their baby's in utero experience.

Sonograms can be frightening and are not as reliable as we wish.

Brazelton's theory of 'Nature plus nurture' and the developmental duet.

The Touch Points program aims to join parents as allies in child development.

Parents struggling with time and discipline issues.

The importance of modeling positive behavior for parents.

Touch Points as a concept for understanding developmental spurts and regressions.

The necessity of involving parents in child development and education.

The paradigm shift from a deficit model to a positive model in child development.

The importance of involving grandparents in child development programs.

Brazelton's experience testifying to Congress for expansions in child care and services for underserved families.

The need for a multidisciplinary approach to help families affected by divorce.

Innovative programs that engage high school students in child care.

The lifetime of additional education required for parents, politicians, and professionals.

Transcripts

the Norman and Florence Brody Family

Foundation is dedicated to exploring

topics of national and international

importance and is proud to support

policy watch with Doug bashov at the

University of

Maryland from the University of Maryland

this is policy watch with Doug

B for for many Americans staying home

with the kids is no longer an option as

the percentage of single parents Rises

the need for aordable child care is

increasing what does this trend mean for

the future of our nation's child care

providers to find out policy watch is

joined by Dr T Barry Brazelton a leading

expert on Pediatrics and Child

Development and now the host of policy

watch Doug basharov T Barry

Brazelton Welcome to the University of

Maryland again and to policy watch thank

you wonderful to have you back well I

admire what you're doing well thanks I

read that you wanted to be a

pediatrician from the time you were 9

years old is that

right how did that happen well I hated

my younger brother

and I hated him so much that I thought I

ought to make up for it somewhere else

and uh my grandmother whom I adored and

Who Loved Me best

um used to get make me take care of all

of my uh cousins I had eight cousins

that I had to take care of always at

family gatherings and she would say

Barry you're so good with small children

I still here ever always all the time

grandparents are so important to

children well that was exactly our

experience as well so your focus has

been on the child

and on parent attachment infant and

parental Behavior across cultures

actually um and we'll talk a little

later about intervention with that risk

um infants and parents but I want to

talk for a little bit about your

understanding of the nature versus

nurture or what I think you'd call The

Nature plus nurture

debate um and I think you called it once

a developmental duet absolutely I don't

think you can divide them up I think

it's absolutely absurd to do that if you

think about what a baby after at Birth

has been through nine months of exposure

to all sorts of things including how the

mother walks how she thinks how much

anxiety she has all of these things are

affecting the fetus now we know and my

newborn assessment picks them out well I

read also that you you asked some of

your um expectant mother patients to

keep a Time diary for 24 hours yeah and

then you tell them what their um baby or

fetus was experiencing during that time

they tell me tell me tell us about they

tell me how the baby goes from sleep to

awake sleep to awake every 3 to four

hours in utero and they know exactly

when that baby's going to fall apart at

the end of the day and start kicking and

they also even know how to postpone that

by not eating or by having going out at

night or something like that so they

know all about this fetus by the time it

comes they are so in tune with it what

what change if any has been caused by

sonograms because they're now these

fabulous three-dimensional

color well I think they can be

frightening

and they can be they aren't as reliable

as we wish they were so far they can

also be very reinforcing I think when

you see a newborn baby about to happen

uh and see that it responds to light and

to sound we have done some experiments

showing that the baby not only responds

to sound and light but it to a negative

one it shuts it out to a posit when it

turns to it as a newborn is that

fascinating that really is that really

is so the mother knows all that but your

theory and you started a program called

touch points your theory is that we

should do more to join parents as allies

in this system of Child

Development um if I can let me ask you

how they're not before touch points and

they're not allies how we apply a more

deficit

orientation and how your program touch

points tries to make take a more

positive View and model for parent child

relations well I think parents are

having a very tough time as I said and I

think some things that they are having

to give up are very frightening to them

time with their children that every

parent I've ever seen who has to work

outside the home suffers male and female

and so they not only feel guilty they

feel cheated and uh the other thing that

I find really tough is it is very hard

for them to push the child to learn

limits what I mean by discipline

discipline is teaching not punishment

and so parents need to work at that it's

a long-term process and parents who work

outside the home um find it very hard to

come home at the end of the day and say

no you cannot do that and I have to stop

you every time until you learn to stop

yourself that's the goal for discipline

and it's very hard for them so kids I

think are growing up really acting out a

lot in a way that scares them scares

their parents scares

Society so we need to back up parents

for how important discipline is

discipline Second To Love Comes very

close to it and also for the younger

children when when the parents come home

some those children have had a busy as

busy a day as the parents they're

sometimes quite tired and you hear

stories about the parents who say all

right this is the time for quality time

let's let's play When the child just

wants a little quiet time is that right

do you see that yeah that's that's why

the rocking

chair it's why you need something that

everybody can relax in together and

communicate in the process you know

communicate that I've had a tough day

you've had a tough day now we can get to

be we can fall in love

again tell us a little bit about touch

points is it a program or an idea well

it's more of an idea than a program we

try to train people to uh from other

disciplines to use it in the way they

look at parents and children and help

bring parents together and feel part of

a team to give that child a future touch

points are in my way of thinking uh

times just before a child takes a spurt

in development either cognitive or motor

or emotional and just before a spurt

there's a period when the child falls

apart and the parent Falls falls apart

with them and if I'm there to touch into

the system and say but look regression

is a time for

reorganization they they don't fall

apart parent feels oh and then even

though the child isn't eating or

sleeping they can put off worrying about

that and the child will take off and

they say I knew what I was doing there's

six of these in the first year four or

five each year after that and uh now

wait a minute six in the first year

means there's a lot of change happening

very

rapidly everybody thinks change goes

like that doesn't it goes burst leveling

off burst leveling off and just before

each burst there's a period of

regression the child won't eat won't

sleep starts Su in his thumb again

starts wetting the bed again starts

lying stealing parents go go crazy with

these things if you aren't there to help

them understand that these are a

necessary part of development now what

you're saying seems to me not only

golden and correct and this is as we've

talked before this is the positive view

as opposed to the deficit view good

you've got it well the reason I don't

have it that well is because when I go

to so many of the public

agencies that are assigned to helping

especially the most dis Vantage families

I don't see anything of what you're

talking about now you know the the there

are three things that we've found are

magical in reaching out to stressed

parents and I think all parents are

stressed but particularly underserved

populations we've we work in Harlem we

have two sites we have eight North North

American Indian sites and we have 72

sites around the country

where the whole Community changes to pay

attention to parents and children now

the one in har in Harlem is called

Harlem Children Zone we work with je

Jeffrey Canada there tell us a little

bit more about that it's wonderful uh

well we work with new parents and these

young young parents come in and we help

them evaluate their baby and they begin

to ask us questions that you know you

think my gosh think of the passion that

these people have who are going through

a lot more than any of us can even

contemplate in the way of poverty and

hopelessness and all the rest and the

second you concentrate on their baby

their eyes get like this their whole

faces Catch Fire and they've got just as

much passion as any of us have why the

hell don't we pay attention to it and

give it give them the kind of backup

they need to keep that passion alive in

an environment that's really tough and

we can do it we have done it and they

start asking us questions that are just

so perceptive and so and what they do is

if they catch fire like I to say they

look at their baby and they say that was

wonderful and the baby begins to catch

fire and these kids have so much

self-esteem that they're going to have a

different future I visit a program for

drug exposed children and their mothers

and the mothers had all sorts of

problems but truth be told they were not

great taking care of their newborns but

the

program would show them things to

do and just start the ball rolling and

the one I remember most was they would

tell the mothers

smile while you're changing the diaper

the mothers I guess had never thought of

that or whatever they smiled at the baby

and of course the baby naturally

responded with a smile

and diaper changing became a positive

experience not a battle between parent

and child absolutely it was quite

beautiful it is and

I for the 20 years since I saw that I've

wondered how we could institutionalize

that you know the best way is modeling

and not telling top which I call top

down but just uh you know when the

mother is about to die for a baby say

you know let's let's talk to that baby

together and the mother looks at you and

you say how you doing and the baby goes

ooh and then and the mother leans over

and she says ooh and the baby looks back

at her and that mother never forget gets

it and you can do that with feeding you

can do it with every every kind of

interaction and if you model it rather

than

telling people pick it up they're just

ready for it let me go through a little

list here this is called a paradigm

shift and this is how you describe what

should be the difference and we've

talked about going from a deficit model

to a positive model but the next one is

linear development going from that to

multi-dimensional development what do

you mean by that well this Jagged way of

learning fortunately because it's such a

costly model of

learning uh motor cognitive emotional

learning sort of parallel each other but

they don't happen at the same time and

so each one takes its own energy and

puts it together and if a parent can see

that and see that at 4 and 1/2 months

for instance no baby will stay at the

breast or stay at the bottle if anything

is happening around they will no no

that's just my baby that's just my baby

who doesn't pay attention that's right

and so if a mother understands that that

baby's having more fun looking and

listening than they would

eating then when you say why don't you

feed her in a dark quiet room twice a

day that'll keep your milk going

and then let her play at each of the

other feedings mother's just oh my gosh

you've given them a gift like like a a

piece of of diamond and yet it must be a

very fine line between prescriptive and

collaborative approaches sure is means

you don't tell you listen in all of our

sites where this is a successful

program the amount of words that the

professional uses goes down like that

and the parents words go up isn't that

interesting we' love to tell people what

to

do and when you do what you're saying is

I know but you don't I don't believe

that uh objective involvement versus

empathetic involvement same thing um and

then strict discipline boundaries versus

flexible discipline boundaries well I

don't think anybody can do for parents

what they need alone anymore I think it

has to be a team and if the team can

work together it's it's so important I I

ask a professional for instance to put

down what he needs to to get his pay

from the insurance company and then

write one sentence about the mother and

one sentence about the father

uh mother looked so pretty in her red

dress father was leaning forward the

whole time the child was doing something

and when the child did it he almost

startled he got so excited and then

about the child what he was like and

then the next person that sees that

child will say oh miss so and so saw you

last time and she said you look so

pretty in your red

dress that mother will say my God

somebody paid attention and then turned

to the father and say and she said you

were so involved with that little boy

that everything he did was exciting to

you that father's in your pocket from

then on and the the baby you can say he

was so active everybody said he got to

be on riddlin but you know he was just

like this how's he doing those parents

never forget to come in on time they

come on time they come in for every

visit it's a whole other world but it's

a very difficult world to achieve I'm

not meaning to get but what you're

describing as something where someone

has to sit down with Mother Father child

and maybe other relatives and it doesn't

look as if there's space for that in our

Public Schools right now well you know

I'm not sure I think we all hide behind

time these days and I'm not sure it's

time

I think it's more involvement letting

yourself dare to get involved and we

found in child care and in in schools

this same competition that interferes

with people talking to each other our

schools have shoved parents out of it

and they've got to get back in we need

them and uh the same thing in medicine

we've shoved parents out and we need to

pull them back in we can do it

this is a big challenge um it's working

though in these 72 sites when you're in

the 72

sites is there initial hostility or

people because they've asked you in is

this something that's very positive to

the providers already we don't take

people unless they're passionate for

change if they are ready for change

we're willing to take them and train

them to think this way cuz it's really

just a way of thinking and uh if they're

ready for change they're ready to give

up on time and you know whether or not

you dare make this kind of relationship

and makes a big

difference yeah let's talk for a few

minutes about other forms of

institutional

change let's go to the divorce and child

custody for a second because what I see

there is the Court's not respecting a

child's need for stability and

continuity uh I was involved in a case

where a Court ruled that the

non-custodial father had a right to come

visit the child on Christmas

Day and that the child had to spend 90

minutes not 85 minutes not 100 90

minutes with the father someplace in the

house while the rest of the family is

doing Christmas

and I said what was this judge

thinking you know I've talked to the

judges the family court judges and

they're just as Disturbed as we are

about how little they have have to make

decisions about I think this is a good

example of need needing a

multidisiplinary group to work around

each child and we just haven't committed

that kind of uh opportunity judges are

ready for it it's not their fault it's

it's really the lack of backup for them

and I think we need to do that if we're

going to protect children from the

effects of divorce they're the ones that

really pay the price yeah now I know you

want every family to get help but there

are some families that need more help

they're underserved to use your

phrase Beyond touch points what

what service you just said a

multidisciplinary team in divorce for

judges what service would you like to

see created for those underserved

families well you you hit

me where where I'm too prejudiced to

answer I want him to have the kind of

caring uh touch points approach of

respecting what they have to bring you

want me to give give you an example I

I'd like to know whether you want the

let's take an example a teen mother I I

want to know when you want the teen

mother I want if you'll tell us what

kind of program supports you'd like her

to have like for her to have somebody

who really respected her who treated her

as if she were uh an important person

and if her mother's there that that two

of them are a team that deserve your

respect and so so forth do we have many

of those programs around not enough we

need

to well you've gone to Congress and

sometimes asked for these kinds of

programs um because I've so enjoyed

learning about your experiences and

testifying what's tell us about your

experiences going to Congress and asking

for expansions in whether it's child

care or these other services for

underserved families

well I haven't been recently because I

just find it too you swore off going I

thought you I thought I heard you say

you're not going again well I would if I

thought there was a climate for it I I

don't find there is right now but um I

used to go down a lot and to testify for

Parental leave and for uh early

intervention and for child care and they

would always follow me with with um an

intact perfect family that would say if

the government does this you take away

our rights as a family and I thought

what rights do most people have that

they can depend on and that we need to

give everybody this chance not just

these few little perfect families so um

it's been discouraging but I think we've

all got to do it we've got to fight for

what we

need um

there have been many child

Advocates um uh in this

field they've tended to talk about

children we've tended to talk about

parents and

children um would it make a difference

if we talked about parents and

children well wiot said there's never a

baby without a mother without a and I

would say without a family today and so

unless we think about the whole family I

don't think we're really doing a lot for

children and the programs that wait

until families aren't available any

longer and I you know I have a Prejudice

that it's the first few years when par

parents are so hungry for whatever we

off from that there is change available

so uh I would think that our resources

ought to go in way back in here when

brain development is going on like that

and then slopes down like that and

whatever we create back here in the way

of

self-esteem a feeling of respect and of

giving that child a feeling that every

time I do something wonderful somebody's

going to say you are great and if we can

do that early on and give parents the

you know the steps to for doing it we

can create a a different kind of outcome

I want to make a small Point here I'm

struck that when I asked you about

service for teen mothers you mentioned

the

grandparents and uh my impression is

that very few programs actively try to

engage grandparents in these kinds of

situations and um that's too bad it is

too bad it was one wonderful program

in uh Berkeley by a woman named Vera

Casey in which she had a daycare center

right across from the high school so

these girls could go back and get their

GED but then she did the Innovative

thing she got male and females from the

high school it became part of their

curriculum that they had to come over

and diaper a baby feed the baby watch

that baby learn to do do something and

if that was all part of their training

and recidivism just went down like that

every and these kids would say I didn't

know this was a

person so you know there a lot of

innovative things like that we can do I

keep thinking there is

a lifetime of additional

education that we have to provide to the

parents to the politicians right and to

the professionals you and I got to do it

we've all got to do it Barry braelon

thank you very

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