There Is So Much Here..
Summary
TLDRThe video discusses the recent licensing changes of Redis, a widely-used open-source database. It explores the implications of these changes on the community, contributors, and major cloud service providers. The script delves into the history of Redis, its founder's intentions, and the potential motivations behind the shift from a permissive open-source license to a dual-licensing model. The change has sparked controversy and debate over the sustainability of open-source projects and the influence of venture capital on their development and direction.
Takeaways
- 📜 Redis has adopted a dual-source licensing model, moving away from its open-source status.
- 🤔 The decision has sparked controversy and mixed opinions within the developer community.
- 💡 The change in licensing affects how Redis can be used commercially, particularly impacting cloud service providers.
- 🚀 Redis aims to continue evolving its data models and processing engines with the new licensing model.
- 🌐 The Redis community edition will still offer the source code for free, while the source-available versions will have restrictions.
- 🔄 The fork of Redis by AWS, named 'Valkyrie', is a direct response to the licensing change.
- 💼 The Redis founder, Salvatore Sanfilippo, stepped back from the project in 2020, selling the IP and trademarks to Redis Labs.
- 💰 The investment and funding of Redis by major companies like VMware, and later the shift in licensing, suggest a move towards profitability.
- 🔧 The licensing change has led to the development of alternatives like 'kydb' and Microsoft's 'Garet', offering open-source options to Redis.
- 👥 The impact on the Redis developer community is still uncertain, with concerns about the future of open-source projects and their sustainability.
- 📖 The story of Redis highlights the complexities and challenges of balancing open-source ideals with commercial interests and investor pressures.
Q & A
What is the main change in Redis licensing model?
-Redis has adopted a dual-source available licensing model, which means future releases will be offered under both the Redis Source Available License (RSAL) and the Server Side Public License (SSPL).
How does the dual-licensing model affect Redis users?
-For individual developers and users, there is no change as they can continue to use Redis under the permissive RSAL. However, cloud service providers and enterprises using Redis as part of their services will need to comply with the SSPL, which may involve licensing fees.
What was the original license for Redis?
-Redis was originally licensed under the 3-clause BSD license, which was permissive and allowed for free use, modification, and distribution of the source code.
Why did Redis switch from the 3-clause BSD license to a dual-licensing model?
-The switch was made to ensure the sustainability of the Redis project and to allow the Redis company to continue evolving the product and providing support for its users. This change was driven by the need to monetize the project, which had been providing a foundation for many applications and infrastructures for 15 years.
What is the Redis Source Available License (RSAL)?
-RSAL is a new license under which Redis will be distributed. It does not require the publication of source code but restricts who can use the software directly, preventing third parties from offering Redis as a service without a licensing agreement with Redis maintainers.
What is the Server Side Public License (SSPL)?
-SSPL is a license that requires anyone who uses SSPL-licensed software as part of a service to release the source code for the entirety of that service. It was originally created for MongoDB and has been adopted by Redis for its new licensing model.
How has the community reacted to the licensing change?
-The community has had mixed reactions, with some expressing frustration and disappointment, feeling that the change is a betrayal of the open-source ethos. Others are trying to understand the financial pressures that led to the decision and are considering the implications for their use of Redis.
What are the implications for cloud service providers like AWS and Alibaba?
-Cloud service providers will no longer be able to use Redis for free as part of their hosted services. They will need to agree to licensing terms with Redis maintainers to continue offering Redis 7.4 and future versions, which may involve paying fees.
Are there any alternatives to Redis that users can consider?
-Yes, alternatives like KyDB and Garet, which are open-source and compatible with existing Redis clients, have emerged. Users starting new projects or looking to replace Redis in their existing projects can consider these options without significant issues.
What is the significance of the Redis founder's departure from the project?
-The departure of the Redis founder, Salvatore Sanfilippo, also known as antirez, signifies a major shift in the project's direction and leadership. His absence from the project since 2020 and the subsequent licensing change have raised questions about the future of Redis and its alignment with the community's spirit.
How does the licensing change impact the open-source community at large?
-The licensing change has sparked a debate within the open-source community about the sustainability of open-source projects, the role of corporate funding, and the balance between community spirit and commercial interests. It highlights the challenges faced by open-source projects in securing long-term support and development.
Outlines
🤔 Redis Licensing Shift
The paragraph discusses the change in Redis's licensing model from a permissive open-source license to a dual-source available licensing model. The speaker expresses initial confusion and skepticism about the change, mentioning the community's reaction and the potential impact on Redis's usage and development. The paragraph highlights the shift from the three-clause BSD license to the Redis Source Available License and the Server Side Public License, and the implications this has for commercial use and cloud service providers.
😕 Open Source Dilemma
This paragraph delves into the complexities and challenges faced by open-source projects, particularly focusing on the sustainability of such projects. The speaker ponders the reasons behind Redis's licensing change, acknowledging the need for funding to support development but also expressing concern about the potential loss of community trust. The discussion touches on the moral and ethical considerations of monetizing open-source software and the impact on users and contributors.
📈 Redis History and Growth
The speaker narrates the history and growth of Redis, from its inception by Salvatore Sanfilippo (also known as antirez) to its widespread adoption by major companies like Instagram and Twitter. The paragraph highlights the initial challenges faced by Redis, such as performance issues with MySQL, and the innovative solution of using memory storage instead. It also discusses the role of companies like VMware and Alibaba in sponsoring Redis development.
🤯 Redis Licensing Controversy
This paragraph addresses the controversy surrounding Redis's licensing change, with the speaker expressing a shift from initial skepticism to a realization of the potential negative implications. The speaker discusses the involvement of Redis Labs and the investment from major companies, leading to the decision to change the licensing model. The paragraph also touches on the community's reaction, the departure of antirez, and the potential for a fork of Redis under the original BSD license.
🌐 Redis and the Future of Open Source
The speaker reflects on the future of Redis and open-source projects in general, considering the balance between maintaining an open-source ethos and the need for financial sustainability. The paragraph discusses the potential for alternative open-source projects to emerge, the role of major companies like AWS and Alibaba in supporting and potentially competing with Redis, and the broader implications for the open-source community. The speaker also expresses a sense of disillusionment with the current state of Redis and its licensing model.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Dual Licensing
💡Open Source
💡Redis
💡Community Edition
💡Commercialization
💡Investors
💡Forking
💡Server Side Public License (SSPL)
💡Redis Source Available License
💡Greed
Highlights
Redis adopts dual source available licensing model.
Redis releases will continue to offer free use of source code under dual RSV2 and SSPL v1 licenses.
Redis 7.4 and future versions will be released under the Redis source available license and the server-side public license.
Redis will no longer be distributed under the three-clause BSD license.
Redis has combined advanced data types and processing engines previously only available in the Redis stack.
Redis has implemented dual licensing for advanced modules under the Redis stack distribution.
Redis has served millions of developers globally and supports real-time applications the world depends on.
Redis maintains performance and simplicity for applications and data infrastructure powering the modern internet.
The dual licensing model is seen as a monetization strategy for Redis.
The open source community has mixed reactions to the licensing change, with concerns about the future of Redis.
Redis has faced challenges due to the commercialization of the product by cloud service providers.
The shift to a dual license model may impact the open source community's trust and collaboration.
Redis continues to offer a community edition for free use by developers, customers, and partners.
The Redis source code will remain freely available, but the new licenses will affect how it is used commercially.
The Redis partner program offers exclusive access to future release updates and feature development.
The licensing change has led to discussions about the sustainability of open source projects and their funding models.
The Redis founder, Salvatore Sanfilippo, stepped back from the project in 2020, leaving it in the hands of the community and Redis Labs.
Redis Labs has undergone significant changes, including a rebranding and a focus on hosted Redis services.
Investors have played a crucial role in the direction and funding of Redis Labs.
Transcripts
so I've never had this happen during a
article read I had one strong opinion at
the beginning of the experience and I
ended completely different this is a
wild ride what goes on with reddis all
right I know I'm a little late to the
party but apparently reddis has adopted
some dual Source available licensing
thing okay so I I I actually haven't
watched any of this but or I haven't
read on anything and we haven't watched
any videos we do have potentially a
video somewhere on here yeah the
downfall of reddis man it sounds we have
the the the pr that it happened with and
we have a specific comment that
apparently is pretty intense about it
all but we will start right here with
the actual release and then we're going
to go uh forward maybe we'll look at the
video maybe we're going to look at the
GitHub issue maybe we'll do all of them
okay let's just hey let's just run the
let let's hey calm down okay I see
people being like you didn't even watch
the video the video does it let's let's
let's get the whole thing let's get the
whole thing in okay calm down future
reddis releases will continue to offer
free and permissive use for uh of the
source code under dual rsv2 and SSP lv1
licenses so I actually don't I've never
even heard of these licenses I mean this
one sounds like an encryption algorithm
this thing sounds like something my wife
has a a subscription to I don't know
what this I what is this uh these
releases will combine Advanced Data
types and processing engines previously
only available in the Reda stack I don't
even know what are we trying to say okay
anyway so things happen beginning today
all Futures uh future versions of reddis
will be released with Source available
licenses starting with reddis 7.4 reddis
will be dual licensed under the reddis
source available license and the server
side public license consequently reddis
will no longer be distributed under the
three claw Berkeley software
distribution BSD from day one redus has
provided a foundation of performance and
simplicity for the applications and data
infrastructure that power the modern
inter uh internet now 15 years later
we're proud to serve millions of
Developers across the globe by
supporting real-time applications the
world depends on every day we have
already implemented dual licensing for
our Advanced redus modules under the
Reda stack distribution which have has
been well received by the community is
this by the way I is this is this is
this the
truth are people
happy in the advanced reddis modules
that they got this new licensing uh in
fact more than 50% of redis IO downloads
from redis 6 and Beyond come from redis
stack we now believe that extending this
licensing to Reus itself will enable us
to continue to evolve the most holistic
set of data models processing engines
and develop and developer capabilities
for our
users all right so I guess I have a
question right away with what they're
saying is what they're saying this hey
we've been developing this product for
15 years and we've been unable to
effectively monetize this well cuz to me
I assume this licensing is for some sort
of monetization and we're looking for a
new way to monetize and thus we're not
even talking about like our our Advanced
modules we're talking about RIT s we
want to be able to move it into such a
place that commercially using redus will
cost you money yes they need money
because they can't maintain the product
anymore that's I mean that's fair uh is
this another rug pole and software it's
I mean 15 years is entirely too long of
a long con that's a long okay can we all
agree that this is a long con right here
so no my guess is this is not a rug pole
my guess is that um that's exactly how
Boomers operate they think ahead for
decades um they weren't even Boomers
back then okay they weren't even Boomers
okay
they the term didn't even exist when
they did it it's to extract money from
Amazon if I don't know if Netflix uses
reddis or some version of redis I'm sure
they do I think every big company uses
reddis pretty much and so my ass my
assumption is that the point is to be
able to extract money out of larger um
larger corporations correct redus is
effectively everywhere and so by doing
that that's that's that's my assumption
behind this uh goorse reddish yeah uh
rent seeking Behavior well it's not rent
seeking Behavior so let's just pretend
that what I've said so far is absolutely
and perfectly correct it is this is the
same argument that we all recognize and
have said about open source which is
open source is largely a thankless job
in which people will not support it
right do you think that they would have
done this if everybody who used it
commercially all the companies who used
it all the individuals who used it and
had their problem solved they all sent
them some amount of cash proportionate P
based on their usage and usefulness do
you think this would have happened my
guess is probably not but maybe still it
would have happened in that you know in
in an effort to kind of grab B any money
you can but it's truly the problem of
Open Source is that whatever you have a
good product that everybody uses nobody
appreciates it and when nobody
appreciates it it just leads to some
like especially something like reddis
where they need to have money to develop
it you know I'm not saying what they're
doing is good behavior I'm not I'm not
even trying to ad justify their good
behavior I'm just trying to rationalize
why this Behavior exists do I think it's
good I I mean the hard part is you built
it open for people to use you got a
bunch of people and companies to use it
and now you're changing it I can see why
people would feel like this is a rug
pull I can see why people would feel
this is really bad right the new source
available licenses allow us to
sustainably provide per uh permissive
use of our source code we're leading
reddis into its next phase of
development as a realtime data platform
with a unified set of clients tools and
core reddis product offerings the reddis
source code yes okay there you go reddis
product offerings how they make money
right it stinks but it's not morally
wrong or anything yeah I it's hard for
me to justif like it's hard for for me
to say what they're doing is well yeah
it's hard I'd say that this is an
extremely I it's not see okay I know
you're probably just trying to get me to
get all upset but this really isn't cap
don't stop it with the capitalism this
is not a capitalism problem right this
is the fact that people have been
working on a product for free for what
appears to be a decade and a half right
I'm sure there I'm AOL take this is such
an AOL take it's greed isn't it you know
it's this really is the shambles I mean
if you look at the X XZ exploit it's
because one person was exploited for
their work got burnt out got pressured
into giving up full and unified control
and Gan gave us the biggest backdoor
Wing we've ever received in our lifetime
luckily that backdoor wiang got caught
by the way if you don't know the back
door Wing reference that is a sand
bakman freed reference it it sounds like
how it sounds okay so just just deal
with it um anyways
uh so you you get the idea like you get
the idea the the Redd uh the redus
source code will continue to be freely
available to developers customers and
partners through the reddis Community
Edition they're still offering reddis
Community Edition is that for free uh
future reddis Source available versions
will unify uh core redus with reddis
stack so Reedus stack must be because
they're doing capital S on this one this
must be like their commercial product
including search jesson vector
probabilistic and time Seri data models
in one free easy to ous package as now
downloadable software this will allow
anyone to easily use Reedus across a
variety of contexts including a as high
performance key value and document store
a powerful query engine in a low latency
Vector database powering generative AI
applications damn damn even got even
snuck AI in there primon we've seen it
so many times and we'll see it again but
you either change the license and make
money or you stop developing I think
this is a I think this is a fair
statement right which is that I I don't
think it's unreasonable to say that
people shouldn't be forced to cre create
and maintain free products that you use
right because that's kind of the inverse
of this and that's where this moral gray
ground is for me because I I can't I
can't justify I I don't know how to
justify it 10 Amazon did it doesn't it
it doesn't matter yeah they they helped
I get it they helped but that doesn't
justify it like right you're justifying
the fact that you think it should be
something different it's not your
product it's not your cha choice to make
is it shitty that they did this yes I
don't think it's great where a bunch of
these people now feel like they have to
choose a forked version of redis or not
and guess what's going to happen you
know the community Fork that's going to
come out for uh redis it's going to have
the same problem do you think that just
by forking it and a bunch of highly
motivated individuals won't eventually
fall into the same problem Amazon
already backed this Fork so okay so
Amazon's already backed the fork of I
wonder I wonder what what it means for
Amazon to do this really obviously
Amazon did this because it's it's it's
probably very very valuable it probably
would cost them so much dang money that
they uh that they didn't that they made
this choice right which is they can pay
significantly less money by supporting a
fork which I mean can we all take a step
for just a second and realize also the
shittiness of that right can we can we
minimally understand the kind of
shittiness of that right that Amazon is
using something and they're able to
effectively pay less by supporting
someone to Fork it and move forward with
their support right I mean I'm not like
I don't think any of it is like there's
not like some sort of moral High Ground
I I I don't think there's a moral High
Ground argument here why wouldn't they
do that no I agree it's it's it's it it
makes sense that they did it because
monetarily it probably it probably you
know it probably makes more sense yeah
it might as well support the original uh
the original creators yeah I mean
there's a whole problem here you know
this is the problem I have with these
kind of these kind of changes is that
you'll see people that get pissed off
like about AI generating art that's in
the style of somebody else or generating
art that's been trained off of all these
things and like you why W you just
support the original creators and then
you have things like this where it is a
similares vein where the original
creators despite them not I would I'm
still on your team I don't think it's
good I think what they're doing is not
great but at the same time can you not
see how you're not supporting the
original creators here you just a lot of
people did a lot of free work the hard
part is free and open source software is
is is genuinely a lie it's effectively
impossible a few companies will do it
but most will never ever ever be able to
do it or sustain it reasonably for a
long time they're they're not actually
the original creators they're probably
I'm sure there might be original Creator
somewhere on reeda still probably there
except Linux yeah Linux is that's why I
said there probably is something there
uh certainly today we've encountered uh
peculiar issues because of capitalism
yet Alternatives prove more detrimental
when open source projects becomes
monetize it's uh it's for specific
reasons either greed or necessity it's
important not to overlook the fact that
many companies also benefit from this
period it's true many companies benefit
from it I don't know I I have a really
hard time siding with either side in
this one uh llmt he used certainly fact
uh the success of redis has created a
unique set of challenges redis has been
sponsoring the bulk of development
alongside a dynamic community of
developers eager to contribute however
the majority of Reedus's commercial
sales are channeled through the large
largest cloud service providers who
commoditize arus Investments and its
open source
Community I wonder I wonder what company
they're talking about what company could
be com uh commercializing Reddit or
redis like this I mean it feels bad I
mean maybe redis should have done this
for
themselves but despite uh efforts to
support a community-led governance model
our desire to maintain the BS SD license
uh delivering multitude of software
distribution simultaneously across open
source source available and Commercial
software optimized for different on
premise and Cloud platforms is that odds
with our ability to drive reddis
successfully into the future under the
new license cloud service providers
hosting reddis offerings will no longer
be permitted to use uh the source code
of redus free of charge for example
cloud service providers will be able to
deliver reddis 7.4 only after agreeing
to licensing terms with redis the
maintainers of redis code these
agreements will underpin support for
existing Integrated Solutions and
provide full access to forthcoming redus
Innovations so one problem I have with
people getting up in arms about this is
the amount of people always yelling
about companies needing to pay their
fair share when it comes to open source
okay I know but look at what it said it
said if a company uses this if cloud
service providers uses it then they have
to agree to these terms I don't does
this does this account for for
individuals that's that's what I'm
missing here because if
individually then and developers don't
have to pay anything that are just using
it for themselves I don't see why people
are as much up in arms about it they're
reselling it yeah they're reselling it
right am I completely off base here
individuals are not cloud service
providers right one would assume am I
like real talk am I completely off base
in this thinking because I I'm trying to
like I'm trying to I'm trying to
rationalize why people constantly say
how commercials needs to support open
source software open source software
makes license change to force
commercials to support them people say
you're a jerk for doing it I'm trying
I'm like I'm trying to figure out where
where the problem is yeah older versions
are still under there L take for lovely
take people just like the [ __ ] and moan
uh I read it as no change for developers
if if you're just a developer using it
individually then that's I guess that's
the real question I want to know if if
that happens so uh instead of continuing
on down this route let's because it
doesn't look like this is all just like
in practice nothing changes for red
reddest developer Community who will
continue to enjoy permissive licensing
under dual license okay so the community
reddis developer community so at the
same time all reddis client libraries
under the responsibility of reddis will
remain open source licensed redis will
continue to support the vast partner
ecosystem so is that saying what I think
it is is that yeah uh rdus will continue
to support its vast partner ecosystem
including managed service providers and
system integrators with exclusive access
to all future release updates uh
releases updates and feature development
are developed and delivered by reddis
through partner program
hey man there's a bunch of useful
information on this page but I think you
should just sign up okayy do you want to
sign up hey you want to fill in this
form hey this form's right here for you
to fill in just why don't you hey why
don't you fill it in I was just
wondering what the partner program is uh
welcome to the reddest partner program
when Innovation meets
collaboration would you have like an llm
try to be a LinkedIn [ __ ] poster and
businesses thrive on the foundation of
speed performance and flexibility
Enterprise matters and redis partners
understand your business needs inside
and out they deliver tailored Solutions
ensuring you get the most out of reddest
and best-in-class Technology stack scale
smarter and faster with the support of
our Global Partners find a partner I
know there's a lot of arch users that
could use this button in their life that
might have been the harshest thing said
on this stream uh anyways all right so
let's let's let's let's let's let's
watch this
video because now okay so now we're all
on this
page as far as I can tell there's no
change to the individual developer
hosting their own Reddit for their own
site doing something there's only
changes to
commercial we get it
now and people are up in arms saying
reddis is crazy man I hate to I I feel
like
I'm why do how do I feel like the bad
guy for saying this feels really
hypocritical of most people that
complain about open source what if I
told you that redis was not actually
created by reddis if you are confused
right now you are in for a ride R okay
so maybe there's something more that I
don't understand here that actually
makes this more interesting okay so so
we got to let this guy cook so this this
this does show that maybe maybe we we we
got something okay okay okay I could be
wrong it ended in the very recent events
of red is changing their license to
actually not be open source anymore and
scamming their Community contribut this
and even the founder of reddis himself
it all started in 2007 when Salvador San
filipo better known as Entz on the
internet was building a tool called LL o
g it was a very early competitor to is
he competing with Minecraft Google
analytics the main selling point of L
was their realtime visitor tracking
feature which Google analytics did not
support until years later because of the
massive amounts of data written to the
database they ran into performance
issues using MySQL antias believed that
using memory instead of the hard drive
to store the data like masel does would
solve the problem
and yo dummy why don't you just use the
memory instead of the disc of course of
course it's faster duh you dummy what do
you think
dummy what if we lose
power
program the first prototype of what we
will later know as redis in 2009 antiz
published a redis core on GitHub to say
it with his own words at this point the
server may not have been perfectly
stable but soon it will be an essential
part of many web applications and
massively impact how we design modern
software
architecture that is really great
foresight I didn't realize how I didn't
realize the origin I didn't know the
origin story to Reis so that's that's
pretty impressive that that he was able
to say like yeah this is going to become
increasingly important that is one big
Arrow by the way this is a statistically
non- average arrow for those that are
wondering to this day the first hecka
news posting of reddis did not get much
attention at all only 23 uploads and a
few comments but anti continued to work
on reddis and soon reddis started to
spread in the Ruby community and
attracted startups will later turn out
to be unicorns Instagram was entirely
built on reddis in its early years get
wasn't early reddis just like just
purely an in inmemory key value story so
so how did they have any was there no
historical I I didn't use Instagram in
the beginnings so does that mean there
was no like historical data to Instagram
like every time it went down it was just
like everybody starting over everyone
sign up with the new account Instagram
just didn't have a database oh S3
buckets okay it just Jam a bunch of
stuff into S3 buckets reddis does write
to dis okay so it does Peri periodically
our sync okay it's eventually consistent
so you may lose a little bit okay I
thought back then redus was purely just
an in-memory one okay I didn't realize
that it it it also synced with disc and
had like a refresh State okay yeah
that's cool yeah I don't see why you
couldn't do that let's go talk about
talk talk about some Scrappy cating what
was it what was it $32 per us user that
Instagram sold for I can't remember how
much Instagram sold for but it sold for
just an incredible amount of money per
user ithub used it to build a chop
queuing system and Twitter improved
their timeline page performance using
redis after gaining more popularity
VMware started to sponsor and hired anti
to continue his work on the inmemory
database oh in 2013 he got sponsored by
the VMware spinoff pivotal soft ware in
the same time period around 2011
companies started to offer consulting
services for redis oh there's a second
big Arrow here okay we have conflicting
arrows one of them was guarante a data
which will play an essential role in
this entire story in 2014 guarante a
data tried to Rebrand to Red is DB but
after the push back of an they reverted
the rebranding and rebranded to Red is
Labs instead which is still very
confusing around this time Redd Labs
also transitioned away from offering
consulting services and focused on
providing hosted red services on top of
AWS instead in 2015 a common investor of
pivotal software and reddis Labs
suggested moving anes to redis Labs
which employed him shortly after that
and sponsored reddis from this point on
investors play a crucial role in reddest
Labs because that company is stacked
stacked up with VC money they
ra they raised
347 million us damn that screen tearing
hey the screen tearing is for free for
you bed over
$347 million Us in seven rounds from
Goldman Sach the Silicon Valley Bank and
Silicon Valley Bank mentioned let's go
let's go more to set this into
perspective if we wanted to just fund
the open source project with let's say
five developers each a salary of
$400,000 a year this would come to $26
million over the span of 13 years less
than a tenth of the funding of red is
lab okay so I think I'm starting to
understand why this license change was
as bad I I I did not know about a lot of
these uh I didn't know about some of
these changes which makes that things
seem uh a little bit different right
there's some change here so you know
maybe I am the
[ __ ] maybe I am truly the [ __ ]
here after anti transferred over the
Red's IP and trademarks to redis Labs he
left the project in 2020 in the block
post he explained the reasons for
stepping back he never wanted to be a
softer maintainer and used code to
express himself but what G it Chad who
who wants who wants to who wants to
maintain that code who wants to maintain
that one I just want to I just want to
express myself in code I just want to
say how I feel with my code dude G dude
chat chatted anti res is the real deal
yeah yeah well I mean he did predict how
useful Reddit would be and created
Reddit and did it so yeah you you can't
dunk on the guy for not actually he
expresses himself very well in code one
quote Reddit sorry Reddit did I say
side of his goodbye blog post hits quite
a lot harder today I believe I'm not
just leaving Redd is in the hands of a
community of expert programmers but also
in the hands of people who care about
the legacy of the community spirit of
redis in there goodbye
Block it's kind of funny you know you
know this is sometimes where politeness
is kind of goofy I'm leaving this in the
hands of the people who care the
most and they kind of you know I it kind
of feels like he got Bamboozled you know
I'm not going to I'm not going to lie to
you there kind of there's kind of a bit
of like bamboozling going on here red is
lab stated that the core of the reddest
project will remain under the three
class BSD license as it has always been
but this will only hold true for a few
more years red is was now led by a team
of five people three of them are from
redest Labs one of them from I can see
why they needed to I I see why they
needed $340 million from Alibaba and one
from
AWS one year later red is Labs
officially rended to just
redis is what they wanted all along
redis the company was still developing
hosted redis services on top of popular
Cloud providers essentially dude this
back door this was a bigger back door
than XZ like real talk this this was the
this was the this was I mean this was
the long Pole right here this is an
actual rug
pole competing with AWS elastic cash and
we'll find out soon that they were
probably not very successful in doing so
or at least not successful enough while
the Redd is core team remains small red
is the
company oh red core team remains small
700 employees
okay you know this could be me being
ignorant hey I could be ignorant I could
hey real talk I could be
ignorant but that just seems like a lot
650 scrub Masters lots of lots of scrub
mastering 700 is small yeah
but okay 300 of them are salese what are
the other 400 how many
people it seems like it's it's you know
again this could just be ignorant
speaking you know sometimes you think
you you're like it shouldn't be that big
but then you realize like okay that's
why it's that big but has gone to over
700 employees today I could not even
make upes for all of those people if I
wanted to but browsing through the
Wayback machine snapshots of the reddest
website makes me think quite a few of
them were busy updating the web design a
concerning amount of time and on March
the 20th 2024 the day arrived where VC
money defeated open source in the
company R is announced in a block post
that they will move away from the three
class BSD license to a dual licensing
model which basically means that they
offer it under two different licenses
and you can choose which is the Lesser
evil while the three class BSD license
is one of the approved ones by the open
source initiative the new licenses are
not which they acknowledged in the
announcement therefore red is will no
longer be called Open Source before I
continue by The OSI
definition so that means yeah because
they're referring to themselves as
Source available meaning that you can
look at the source but it also means
that you can Fork The Source can you
Fork The Source if you Fork The Source
you can't change the license right so
you can only fork The Source starting
from
7.4 not anymore you can't even look at
you can't even look at it Fork The
Source change the license can you do
that you can Fork source and profit and
profit from it I don't think you can do
that it's just text I don't think that
that's how it
works I I'm
I'm try to stop I don't need to try to
stop you but you know that lawyer that's
going to just take you to pound me in
the ass prison they're going to be the
ones that stop you I'm just saying it's
a little it's a it's a little it's a
little bit difficult to be like it's
just it's just some text I just did a f
and replace I don't know uh valky
already forked it yeah but they must
have forked it at 7.4 right they forked
it under the BSD license thus it's legal
to Fork it at that
point now you can do it office space
mentioned that is office space
mentioned social credit score minus 100
yeah yes correct they they forked it at
at a time in which was allowed
to okay I have to say I am not a lawyer
and this is not legal advice in any way
the new licenses are called side public
license and red Source available license
2.0 the sspl was originally created for
mongodb and requires everyone who uses
sspl license software as part of a
service to release the source for the
entirety of the service in hold on with
a modified 13 that requires making SSL
license software available to third
parties modified or not as part of a
service must release the source for the
entirety of the service
so mongod DB had this as a li did did
people that used mongod
like oh is that mean if you use the
source code that's
different that's different than it's
different than than using the product
versus using the source code right but I
guess how do you use the how do you use
the product without a bit of the source
code on there
right it's kind of hard right because
you you kind of need like the the the
thing that communicates to to the item
which is probably a part of this viral
licensing I've heard about the I've
heard about these viral licensing that
are very
um very uh very dangerous yikes
including with imitations all management
software user interfaces application
program interfaces automation software
monitoring software backup software
storage software and hosting software
all such that a US user can run an
instance of the service using the
service source code you made available
well this sounds like a nightmare
especially if you have some sort of
proprietary license software in your
stack that you simply cannot open source
for legal reasons after the sspl was
submitted to the open- source initiative
as they wanted to become an approved
open- Source license the open source
initiative made a hit piece calling it a
fox pen Source license because it
restricts who can use L
it yeah that's that's rather wild this
is a hit piece dude
that you know the this is the part of
software that like I just I literally
have no idea
about it's it's supposed to be faxen
right F A ux is Fox um
but you know what's kind of wild is
that I wonder if you could I wonder if
you could make like a viral hit in node
with you know because you know how many
npm packages there are there's like
literally a kajillion npm packages I
wonder if you could just how could you
do
that if you rebase and throw in
something in the past is that and you
made it like a or you didn't have to
throw in the P you just threw it in
there and you threw it as like 1.01 so
it automatically gets updated in
people's code and then they use it and
if they use it they have to open source
it it's kind of wild like is even s SPL
dude I know how F would that
be it need to be fair what needs to be
fair this isn't a real Tech and no one
is really enforcing it well I mean what
happened if you could I'm just saying
this stuff is super you know I knew this
stuff basically existed yeah a viral
license bomb
dang kind of kind of wild viral license
bombs version attacks like that exist I
know it's kind of this is like yeah a
supply chain license
attack yeah know exactly I mean that's
the thing is people are going to make a
whole whole there's going to be a whole
Cottage can there be an entire cottage
industry of people making somehow money
lawyering off of these type of license
changes I don't know it's kind of wild
the other license in question is the
reddest Source available license 2.0
this license does not require you to
publish the source code but it restricts
who can use it directly in the license
terms it says you may not make the
functionality of the software or a
modified version available to third
parties as a service or distribute the
version or a modified version in a
manner that makes the functionality of
the software available to third parties
now again I am not a lawyer and this is
not legal advice but this sounds like a
very vague definition to me
and you may not make functionality of
the software or a modified version
available to third parties as a service
or distribute the software or modified
version in a manner that makes the
functionality of the software available
to third parties it is
vague so how did they Fork it they
forked it at 7.4 or whatever whatever
was the last one it is extremely vague
right I I can I I can understand why
people are saying this is is extremely
vague right me putting on my various
lawyerings hat and my bird law hat
meaning I'm not a lawyer but just me
trying to logically argue out exactly
what this means I cannot come up with an
exact thing right meaning that let's see
or distribute software or a modified
version in a manner that makes
functionality of the software available
to third parties what does that
mean like does that mean if somebody in
a third party logs in and the logs in
the logging in uses reddis that's like
making functionality available to a
third party which means have we just hit
have we just hit
ourselves into a problem this feels like
bird law okay again my various lawyer
Rings yeah there so that's the people
are saying that's the point that they uh
that the let's see their lawyers want it
to be as vague so they could Define how
they want it in court yeah I mean that
is part of the problem with
this I think that I think it's also hard
to make it stand up in
court because whenever you do something
I mean the problem is when something is
so so vague it's very hard to make it
also stand up in
court but yeah but the judge gets to
decide yeah that's that's the that's
that's the hard part um yeah I wouldn't
I I would probably I would probably not
uh I would probably not touch this with
a with a 10ft pull right like this
sounds wildly even though it's only
$5 a
month or distributed version or a
modified version in a manner that makes
the functionality of the software
available to third parties now again I
am not a lawyer and this is not legal
advice but this sounds like a very vague
definition to me yeah it is very and
when we look at the fqs for redis
modules which were already relicensed to
the same licenses before they State
multiple times that the change should
not affect you but if not even reders
themselves can tell me with certainty
who can no matter where exactly the
limits are it is very clear that under
none of the new licenses Cloud providers
like AWS will be able to provide HED
reded services without paying a fee
which I mean again I think that we can
all agree that that's probably in some
sense
fine
right I don't know is that fine man I
have such a hard time going back and
forth on this one but I mean AWS now
forked it and now that they forked it at
7.4 or whatever it is it's just like
that's valky is already out
there I know everyone's okay with AWS
the L
right you should never you should never
make a rule in your head because you
know that one big company can get
screwed right like a a generally good
rule of thumb is you should try to think
through a problem and what its
implications are not that we all can't
agree that like yo yeah yeah make Amazon
pay right like sure but you got to think
through the problems and what does it
actually mean to the people that aren't
Amazon cuz once you do once you do it
with the big company it keeps on on
goinging right it doesn't stop at Amazon
Amazon's just the first it Amazon's the
precedent that wins all the future cases
right and that's where things kind of
get in the murky Waters and so so Amazon
isn't going to eat that price yeah I
don't think they
will that's why it is a problem that's
why this is a problem [ __ ] flows
Downstream yeah
yeah which was obviously the goal but it
is also important to note something else
if redis would have had this license
from the very beginning guarante a data
would have never been able to offer the
services in the first place without open
sourcing their entire infrastructure
they destroyed the very thing that made
their company exists in the first
place yeah that's a fair
take okay you know what I have
officially changed my
stance I have I have officially changed
my stance this is is a rug
pull I played myself played myself like
a fiddle hey I'm willing to be wrong I'm
always willing to be wrong it's a
scumbag move they themselves profited
off of something in which they then in
turned were able to capture the whole
thing maybe potentially just due to how
close their naming was and however the
VC incest party went that caused those
two people to like work together right I
mean the fact that the original redis
guy sold all the IP or whatever happened
I mean he just wanted to cash out it
sounds like he wanted to be done with
this crap I don't probably blame him
probably was like hugely political super
super awful not something you want to be
a part of not something I want to be a
part of I think we can all give the
original Creator uh a free pass here i'
take the money too right I don't if
anyone thinks they're like on this moral
High Ground that they would have been
like I would have stood up for truth and
Justice it's like nah you wouldn't have
no no you you you you wouldn't okay okay
you really you really would not have
stood for truth and Justice
okay you know all heroes uh all heroes
costumes eventually wear out yeah I'll
stand for it after I get the bag I'm
gonna get the bag and then I'm super
angry that they did it
right all right hold on someone someone
just posted a a good comment here all
right it's time for a solid fork with
custom restrictions Banning uh reddis
Labs from ever using the new code from
new Forks let's starve them yeah I would
actually say that you you you theoretic
could do this and how you would do this
is you would have to create a public
Fork I mean can we be real here for a
quick second
Amazon Amazon is most certainly
profiting the most from this okay
they're the ones that are going to be
able to effectively make it out like a
bandit while everybody else carries the
tax right they're the true winners in
this
situation cuz they're the ones that are
going to be like oh man we're going to
give you guys a 100,000
a
[Applause]
year
hey yeah and they're going to be just
like hell yeah sponsored by Amazon
they're like for five years two correct
we're going to make a we're going to
make a billion dollars off this [ __ ]
right because that's their most
profitable Center is AWS they make in in
just inordinate amount of money off of
it sponsored by fizer and
Amazon don't forget to get your new
migraine medication um anyways let's see
honestly I don't care if reddis would
use code from the new Fork it's open
source for a reason we can't become the
thing we are bashing and block blocking
Rus from pulling commits really defeats
the purpose of original license we are
all upset over them
removing man this
guy's we have found an honor we found an
honorable
individual
Gilda is just like yo [ __ ] that
guy principal to a fault yeah it's it's
principal to a fall
which I
think if you the here so here's like
kind of like my take on this one which
is that if you really want to make sure
you don't become the thing you don't
like you have to even allow the thing
you don't like to be able to Pro like
you have to be able to even allow them
to use you I I do actually agree with
him if you wanted to be fully like this
is the Open Source One then you'd have
to make it open source for
all
right because once you put in
restrictions the restrictions can
grow and then who knows hey extreme
Ownage principal stat principal stance
though I can see why people would be
upset about
it I don't know how to thumb apparently
am I not signed
in I'm not even signed in what a loser
new computer still okay just switch
browsers okay just switch BR don't don't
judge me like this here [ __ ] fire
Firefox oh gosh don't get
embarrassed what was his it was it it
was what is it
Ownage thumbs up see I dude I I I I code
I'm not just an influencer
guys you know what I mean I'm one of I'm
one of us you know what I'm talking
about
Bros I'm not a
Dev I'm not a devell stop I'm not a
devell with the license by the way that
just single-handedly just like made so
many people's day worse by me just
dunking on on devels like that alone
just made a bunch of people's days worse
and I'm
sorry I'm
sorry that you've chosen to be a Dev all
right all right all right got him all
right let's go let change the AWS
employee medeline Olen who worked on the
project for 4 years announced that she
will no longer be able to win work on
the project and that there was a real
price to pay with losing such a beloved
open-source project but not only some of
the main contributors are unhappy with
the change the pool request with the
license change is flooded with un and
users of reddis again this is not legal
advice but redis did just relicense code
that was contributed under a completely
different license and they removed all
bstd notices which are required by the
the three Claus BSD license I cannot
imagine that is what anti meant when he
was talking about caring about the
legacy of the community Spirit
of remember when I said polite comments
you know this is one of those things
where you know I I talked earlier about
like always being wise with your words
and communicating in kind of like a
polite way because you don't want to
come back and haunt you but if you have
like hey these people are dangerous
maybe you should be willing to say that
right
there just throwing it out there it's
definitely a
balance is with the legal un people will
look for Alternatives and to say
honestly to be real he's probably he
probably had to sign some sort of like
hey you're going to sell it all these
things and you get all these things but
you have to leave and you have to leave
and you have to say good terms and you
can't say yo these people are a bunch of
[ __ ] don't trust them that they will
find them there is already kydb which is
a drop in replacement for redis and just
a few days before redis announced a
license change Microsoft released garet
a cashore that can be used with existing
redest clients both of them are open
source and it would really come as a
surprise if AWS won't jump in as well
and develop their own red is Fork as
well as they did with open search when
elastic search changed their license it
is really a Nob brainer for anyone
starting a new project to use any of the
Alternatives and for the most part you
can probably replace them in your
existing project as well without any
problems so when the license
change man I feel I I I feel like
completely Bamboozled right now I I
honestly feel like I haven't had this
big of an emotional swing on something
in a long time I I am chook right now I
am
genuinely I'm I I feel Bamboozled right
now which introduces so many more
challenges and legal uncertainties
driving away the community from reddis
why on Earth would they do it it's not
first off this video is extremely good
but it's the fact that we read only
their their statement without
much understanding of the the history
and so how many people don't have I mean
I'm sure there's a a bunch
of there's a bunch of people that didn't
have the the the history of it it's just
like you can't understand the change of
it and so I mean I'm I'm I'm eating some
serious Crow right now I'm eating some
pretty serious Crow right now because I
was out there
like and then now I'm just
like it's okay it's okay you're okay man
I
I damn anyways they have to have known
the consequences of their actions we've
seen those exact scenarios play guys I
did have the flu okay I I had the flu
I I I I was taking medication for the
flu I'm sorry for what I said before in
the end it is hard to see how this is
not a big cash grab by a massively V
funded company where the investors
finally wanted to see a return an
investment can I be real here for a
second just a little quick second just a
little quick thing I love Investments
capitalism stock market and all those
things but the constant drive for
greater and greater returns has most
certainly caused a lot of issues and it
does make me sad you know what I mean
like don't get me wrong I'm not a fool I
don't somehow think that that some
alternative system is just gallons ahead
right the problem is is that greed alone
is bad right greed with virtue like if
Society said we don't need to make as
much money but we want to make like a
good Market where people can exist like
that's a good thing right I think we can
all agree with that but man The
Continuous the Unicorn
internet ultra wealthy potentials has
really caused like a lot of problems and
it makes me a little bit sag about it
you know what I mean because really what
happened here is I mean you can you can
just watch it happen like it's it's it's
this 300 whatever million dollar
investment coming home to roost right
rampid greed is damaging everything uh
I mean I think I think the underlying
thing the underlying truth to this is
that any of like the bad motivations
even if the initial outcome is
good does lead to a lot of a lot of
problems and nuke he licensing the
co-founder over Bengal stepped down as a
CEO and was replaced by Ren tou who is
also the person that published a license
change announcement on their blog Wen
trob was not involved with r before
whatsoever he was previously the CEO of
a call center provider called 59 and was
probably put in this position by
investors to finally make the company
profitable is this Jack
Attack is that who we're seeing right
here is this Jack Attack for those that
don't know the reference what's Jack's
last name
avato Jack Attack was the brought in CEO
that makes the box it's from Silicon
Valley and and he comes in as Jack
Attack and Barker the conjoined
triangles of
success like is this guy the conj dude
is Rohan trop trollope is he the
conjoined triangles of success action
Jack
Barker literally is this guy
[Laughter]
literally oh my goodness the story
somehow is actually worse than what it
was before how's it gotten this
bad
damn I know I know the fact that troll
in is in his name it's just too on the
nose is this nominative
determinism is this what this is
supposed to be it's unreal I know is
this nominative determinism like this
has to be right Silicon Valley writers
didn't even realize they were both
saying what existed and accidentally
predicted the future where is the
company will will probably make a lot of
money in the coming months and maybe
even years from companies that use Redd
is deeply integrated into the stack or
as a hosted service but this comes at a
cost the cost of losing such a beloved
open source project hold on I have to do
something flip marker marker flip it's a
marker marker flip take it
out you know he would sometimes leave
those in just to mess with me
do you know that flip he literally
called me up and he said that he spends
most of my his time he said it in more
colorful language than I'm going to say
it he spends most of my time or his time
making me not look like an idiot just to
find times to make me look like an idiot
and there's like this irony here that he
lives he lives this this dual life where
one half he's just like well I got to
prevent you from looking like an idiot
and then on the other side he's like and
you're an
idiot
there is a debate to be had about the
funding of open- source projects but
this is not about funding AWS and
Alibaba showed that they are willing to
contribute to this project by paying
people to work on redice while there are
way too many of them
this I think the hard part I have
generally with with with this stuff
right or they're just like Alibaba and
Amazon are going to you know pay them to
work on this product the money in versus
the money out is incredible like what
they're getting out of what they're
putting in is like an investment that
any sane person would make add infinitum
and it's one of the hard Parts I have is
that redis will still or reddis 2
whatever we're going to call it um is
still going to have a lot of the
probably some very similar funding
issues and so I don't see like I don't
know how much it's going to change you
know I
it's always sad I mean I think open
source is is wonderful and sad all at
the exact same time because there's just
so many issues to begin with you know
they never had a funding issue they've
never had funding issues I just somehow
doubt that I don't really know much of
any projects that aren't always wishing
they could have more
funding right open source is rough open
source is rough this is not a story
about faed open source funding this is a
story about a company that failed to out
compete the competition was pressured by
investors to deliver and did so by
destroying it for everyone else as of
the moment I'm recording this video
neither anti nor the two other main
contributors employed by Rister company
have spoken up about the LI is that
literally Gil foil change so we do not
really know what happened behind the
scenes or what their actual opinion
about all of this is but it is hard to
see how they are not feeling wared by
all of what happened if you want to find
out more about the history of anti-ras
and reddis I highly recommend you to
check out this blog post which I Linked
In the description down below if you
want to see what antes is up to now and
better understand how he views the world
you should take a look at his blog where
he regularly posts updates on his
projects since leaving redis he also
wrote a science fiction book about
artificial intelligence and also one
man's living the dream out there writing
books that previous one was doing
something with doing something with
hardware and not using a digital analog
converter the the the man's out there
renaissanc thing right now he's probably
wearing a shirt with poofy
sleeves one more special shout out to
this blog post by momento who I might
have stolen some memes from all the
sources for this video are linked in the
description down below I hope those
memes were MIT what happen if those
memes weren't properly
licensed then
what this might slowly disappear over
the next few years but the art of antes
and its Legacy will live on see you in
the next
video Dang there was a lot to
that there was a lot lot I was not ready
for that damn someone's did whoa did you
guys see that damn someone's putting I'm
definitely not attracted to a a bunny is
this Lola I definitely not attracted to
a bunny guys
um okay is this furries or is what
what's her name is it
Lola is that from Space
Jam okay is that the space j furry
confirm okay it's not a I'm not a
furry you're programmer airgo for okay
okay okay there okay there um man that's
a that was a that was a much
deeper that was a much
deeper Rabbit Hole than I was
expecting I take back everything I've
said and I would just like to say that I
think
um rabbit hole I'm not a
furry just okay just because
Lola makes me feel certain ways does it
mean I can't even look at chat I can't I
actually can't even look at chat you
guys are redacted chat right now this is
the most redacted chat I've ever seen in
my lifetime the name is the primagen
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