The Hidden Cost Of Extreme Intelligence - Jordan Peterson

Summary

In this insightful interview, Elon Musk's mental agility is discussed, highlighting his high level of creativity and the potential downsides of such genius. The conversation delves into verbal fluency as a measure of creativity, contrasting it with vocabulary. It also touches on the hyper-conscientious nature of individuals like Musk and the rarity of combining extreme creativity with conscientiousness. The discussion provides a glimpse into the intense internal landscape of highly creative individuals and the price they pay for their genius.

Takeaways

• 🤔 Elon Musk's statement about people not wanting to be in his position suggests a deeper understanding of the challenges and pressures he faces.
• 🧠 The concept of 'hypermania' is introduced to describe the intense mental activity that highly creative individuals like Musk might experience.
• 📚 A verbal fluency test is suggested as a measure of creativity, where one must list as many four-letter words starting with 'T' or 'S' in three minutes.
• 🔍 The correlation between the number of words produced in the test and lifetime creative achievement is highlighted, particularly in artistic and verbal domains.
• 💭 The difference between vocabulary (understanding words) and fluency (producing words) is emphasized, with fluency being a key indicator of creative potential.
• 🚀 Musk is portrayed as not only a creative genius but also an extremely conscientious engineer, which is a rare combination.
• 💼 The conscientiousness of individuals like Musk is suggested to help focus and harness their creative energy into productive endeavors.
• 📈 The contrast between highly creative but less conscientious individuals like Eric Weinstein and those with both traits, like Musk, is discussed.
• 🏋️‍♂️ The speaker shares personal experiences of intense thought processes and how physical activity and other methods were used to manage them.
• 🎁 The script includes a promotional message for Manscaped's Lawnmower 5.0 Ultra, highlighting its features and offering a discount code for viewers.

Q & A

What did Elon Musk say about people wanting to be in his position?

Elon Musk mentioned that while many people might think they would want to be him, they don't understand the reality of his situation. He implies that the mental and emotional toll might not be something most people would want to endure.

What is the term 'hypermania' and how is it related to creativity?

Hypermania is a term that describes a state of intense mental activity, often associated with creativity. It suggests a rapid and continuous flow of ideas, which can be a double-edged sword, potentially leading to both high levels of creative output and mental exhaustion.

What is the verbal fluency test mentioned in the script?

The verbal fluency test is a simple test that involves writing down as many four-letter words as possible in three minutes that begin with a specific letter, such as 'T' or 'S'. It is used to measure creativity and is associated with the ability to produce a large number of words quickly.

How does the number of words produced in the verbal fluency test correlate with lifetime creative achievement?

The sheer number of words produced in the test is believed to have a powerful correlation with an individual's lifetime creative achievement, especially in artistic and verbal domains. A higher number of words indicates a potentially higher level of creativity.

What is the difference between vocabulary and fluency in the context of the verbal fluency test?

Vocabulary refers to the number of words one understands, while fluency refers to the number of words one can produce in a given time. Fluency is more about the ability to generate ideas quickly, which is a key aspect of creativity.

How does the speaker describe the mental state of someone who writes down 150 words in the four-letter test?

The speaker describes such individuals as having their minds working at a hypomanic rate, thinking very quickly and producing ideas at a rapid pace, which is indicative of high creativity.

What is the downside of being in a manic state?

Being in a manic state can lead to having a thousand different plans, each with a high level of enthusiasm, but without the ability to focus or follow through. This can result in chaos and a lack of productivity, despite the initial burst of energy.

How does the speaker describe Elon Musk's internal landscape?

The speaker suggests that Elon Musk is a genius with a hyper creative mind, possibly on the edge of hypermania. His creativity is also balanced by a high level of conscientiousness, which helps him focus his creative energy.

What is the relationship between creativity and conscientiousness according to the script?

The script suggests that there is no correlation between creativity and conscientiousness. Being highly creative does not necessarily mean being highly conscientious, and vice versa. Elon Musk is an exception, being both highly creative and conscientious.

How does the speaker describe the speaker's own experience with creativity and writing?

The speaker describes a period of intense focus and obsession with writing his first book, 'Maps of Meaning'. He was writing for about 3 hours a day and thinking about the material for about 12 hours, experiencing a nonstop flow of thoughts at a rapid pace.

What is the purpose of the Manscaped Lawnmower 5.0 Ultra mentioned in the script?

The Manscaped Lawnmower 5.0 Ultra is a grooming tool designed for men, featuring a ceramic blade, a 90-minute battery, waterproof technology, and an LED light for precise trimming. It is promoted as a modern solution for personal grooming.

Outlines

00:00

🧠 Elon Musk's Hyper Creativity and the Price of Genius

This paragraph delves into the mental landscape of Elon Musk, as discussed by the speaker. It highlights the notion that being in Musk's position may not be as desirable as it seems due to the intense pressure and creative demands. The speaker introduces a verbal fluency test to gauge creativity and suggests a correlation between the number of words produced in such a test and one's creative achievements. The conversation touches on the hypermanic state of mind that highly creative individuals might experience, which can be both a blessing and a curse. It also contrasts this with the conscientiousness that Musk seems to possess, making him a rare combination of creative and meticulous.

05:02

🎨 The Rarity of Conscientious Creativity and the Role of Tools

The second paragraph continues the discussion on the intersection of creativity and conscientiousness, using the example of Eric Weinstein, who is described as highly creative but not particularly conscientious. It explores the idea that individuals like Musk, who are both hyper creative and conscientious, are exceedingly rare. The speaker also mentions a product advertisement for Manscaped's Lawnmower 5.0 Ultra, a grooming tool designed for men, and provides a humorous take on the importance of modern grooming practices. The advertisement is integrated into the conversation as a segue to the broader topic of balancing creativity with practicality and conscientiousness.

Keywords

💡Elon Musk

Elon Musk is a prominent entrepreneur known for his ventures in electric vehicles, space exploration, and other technologies. In the script, he is mentioned as an example of someone who might be admired but whose life, described as a 'storm,' is not as desirable as it may seem. The mention of Musk sets the stage for a discussion on the internal struggles and pressures faced by highly creative and successful individuals.

💡Verbal Fluency

Verbal fluency is a measure of a person's ability to produce words quickly and efficiently, which is often associated with creativity. The script introduces a verbal fluency test as a means to gauge one's creative potential. It is used to illustrate the correlation between the number of words produced in a short time and an individual's lifetime creative achievements, particularly in artistic and verbal domains.

💡Creativity

Creativity in the script is discussed as a trait that can manifest in hypermanic thinking, where the mind operates at an accelerated rate. It is associated with the ability to produce a large number of words in a short time, as demonstrated by the verbal fluency test. The script suggests that highly creative individuals, like Elon Musk, may be on the edge of a spectrum that could potentially lead to pathological conditions if not managed.

💡Hypermania

Hypermania, as mentioned in the script, refers to a state of high mental energy and rapid thinking, which is characteristic of highly creative individuals. It is a term used to describe the intense thought processes that can lead to prolific creative output. However, the script also cautions that when hypermania becomes uncontrolled, it can lead to manic states, which are associated with negative consequences.

💡Manic

The term 'manic' in the script is used to describe a state of mind that is excessively enthusiastic and energetic, often to the point of being detrimental. It is the extreme end of the spectrum from hypermania and is characterized by numerous fleeting plans and a lack of focus. The script contrasts this with the more controlled creativity of individuals like Elon Musk.

💡Conscientiousness

Conscientiousness is highlighted in the script as a trait that can help focus and direct creative energy. It is particularly associated with Elon Musk, who is described as not only hyper creative but also hyper conscientious. This trait allows him to channel his creativity into productive endeavors, distinguishing him from those who may be creative but lack direction.

💡Engineers

Engineers are mentioned in the script as individuals who possess a deep understanding of how things are built, from a fundamental level. The speaker admires engineers for their ability to understand and construct things at the atomic level, which is a form of conscientiousness that complements their creativity.

💡Executive Function

Executive function, in the context of the script, refers to the cognitive processes that enable an individual to plan, focus, and manage their behavior effectively. It is suggested that individuals like Elon Musk have a hypertrophied executive function, which helps them to harness their diffuse creative energy and apply it to specific goals or projects.

💡Eric Weinstein

Eric Weinstein is mentioned in the script as an example of someone who is highly creative but not particularly conscientious. His role as an 'idea man' for Peter Thiel is used to illustrate how different levels of conscientiousness can influence the application of creativity in professional settings.

💡Manscaped

Manscaped is a brand mentioned in the script as a sponsor of the episode. It is associated with grooming tools, specifically the Lawnmower 5.0 Ultra, which is promoted for its features like a ceramic blade, waterproof technology, and an LED light for precise trimming. The product is used as a humorous aside to the main discussion, highlighting the practical applications of creativity in everyday life.

Highlights

Elon Musk's recent interview reveals the downsides of high-level genius, suggesting that his mind operates at a hypermanic rate.

A verbal fluency test is introduced as an indicator of creativity, challenging individuals to produce as many four-letter words beginning with 'T' as possible within three minutes.

The correlation between the number of words produced in verbal fluency tests and lifetime creative achievements is discussed, especially in artistic and verbal domains.

The difference between vocabulary, which is the number of words one understands, and fluency, which is the number of words one can produce, is explained.

The transcript describes the vast variation in people's cognitive abilities, with some producing 150 words in a three-minute test compared to others who may only produce 12.

The transcript discusses the potential for hypermanic thinking to escalate into mania, which is characterized by numerous fleeting and uncontrolled plans.

Elon Musk is portrayed as a genius who may be contending with the internal landscape of intense creativity and conscientiousness.

The transcript highlights the price of being admired and the baggage that comes with it, as exemplified by Musk's public persona and achievements.

Musk's conscientiousness is discussed as a possible counterbalance to his creativity, allowing him to focus his energy and ideas.

The transcript contrasts Musk's hyper conscientiousness with other creative individuals who may lack this trait.

The challenges of being highly creative and the potential for obsessive thinking, as experienced by the speaker while writing 'Maps of Meaning', are shared.

The speaker's use of physical exercise and alcohol as methods to shut down obsessive thinking is mentioned.

The transcript touches on the rarity of individuals who are both highly creative and conscientious, suggesting Musk is an exceptional case.

The importance of understanding the trade-offs and 'price' of being a person like Elon Musk is emphasized.

The transcript includes a commercial for Manscaped's Lawnmower 5.0 Ultra, a grooming tool for men.

A discount code 'wisdom' is offered for Manscaped products, along with a 20% discount and free shipping.

The transcript concludes with an invitation to listen to a longer podcast episode for further discussion on the topics covered.

Transcripts

there was a recent interview with Elon

Musk where he said something my mind is

a storm I don't think most people would

want to be me right they may think they

would want to be me but they don't they

don't know they don't understand what do

you think of that elon's someone that

people probably look up to and admire

aspire to be one of the downsides to

high level genius is you might describe

it as

hypermania so

here's a simple test that people can do

so this is a test of something called

verbal fluency and verbal fluency is

associated with creativity and so a ver

here's a simple verb verbal fluency test

write down as many four-letter words as

you can in three minutes that begin with

t okay that's that's pretty constrained

four letters in t or or write down as

many words as you can in three minutes

to begin with S that's less constrained

all right so there's quite a powerful

correlation between the sheer number of

words that you produce and your lifetime

creative achievement right especially in

the artistic and verbal

domains that's different than vocabulary

vocabulary is how many words you

understand fluency is how many words you

can produce in a given Dey of those

words yeah well people vary to a degree

that you can hardly imagine so some

people if you get them to do the

four-letter test in 3 minutes they'll

write down like 12 words and some will

write down

150 and the ones who are writing down

150 their minds are going at a hypomanic

rate they're just thinking five times as

fast binging yeah without any remission

whatsoever and you know when that gets

completely out of control you have manic

you have someone who's Manic and there's

nothing fun about manic that's where the

word maniac comes from and someone who's

manic has a thousand different plans

Each of which are one sentence long that

they're hyper enthusiastic about they'll

spend every scent of their money

pursuing them and things just go

immediately to hell and so that's the

that's the outer limit of pathology on

the creative front and someone like musk

who's clearly a genius that's what he's

contending with in his internal

landscape now I'm not saying that he's

manic because I see no signs of that but

someone that creative is on that edge or

you see someone like Ben Shapiro I mean

it's very interesting to talk to Ben

because and Russell Brand is the same

way Shapiro speaks I think more rapidly

than anyone I ever met but if you're

with him you see very clearly that he's

probably thinking five times that fast

and that's a lot and when I was writing

maps of meaning which was my first book

I had a very difficult time shutting off

my mind I was obsessed with that book

and so I was writing about 3 hours a day

and then I was thinking about the

material like for 12 hours

as and the thoughts came

as way faster than thinking they

probably came about as fast as I can

read I can read about 1200 words a

minute if the material isn't

overwhelmingly dense and so it was just

nonstop thought for like 16 hours a day

that's part of the reason I started

lifting weights because if I was lifting

heavy thinking 12200 words a minute

while I've got 100 pounds on myly it was

enough it was enough to shut it down

yeah and it was also one of the reasons

that I drank because that was another

thing that would shut it off yeah well I

I think the price that people pay to be

the person that you admire is just such

an interesting frame to look at someone

like Elon Musk my mind is a storm I

don't think most people would want to be

me the price that you would have to pay

in order to be me is not one that you

would but you one of the richest men on

the planet and you get to you know dance

on stage and and release cars that are

bulletproof and put rockets and space

and stuff well yeah but what about all

of the baggage what's the pr what's well

he's also he also appears to me to be

hyper conscientious and I know people

who've worked with him like musk isn't

just a creative genius he's also an

extremely conscientious engineer which

and really conscientious Engineers they

have very interesting Minds I like

talking to Engineers because my

brother-in-law is a great engineer and

when when he understands something Jim

when he understands something he

understands how to build it out of atoms

right like he understands it at every

single level and musk appears to me to

be someone who's this rare combination

of hyper creative but also hyper

conscientious I know that he works all

the time yeah does that sort of uh

hypertrophied executive function help to

Wrangle some of the diffuse Creative

Energy oh we're going to put it into

this one thing at least for a while and

then we'll move on to another thing yes

yes definitely definitely you you Eric

wind Stein's a good example of someone I

hope Eric isn't annoyed by this but Eric

is unbelievably creative but he's not

particularly conscientious and so his

and and I think he found an occupation

where that works extremely well because

he's he I don't know if he's still doing

this but he worked with Peter teal for

quite a long time as his idea man right

and Eric's an extremely interesting

person musk is hyper creative and as far

as I can tell hyper conscientious and

the conscientiousness does Focus know it

it and and that lots of people who are

creative aren't conscientious well it's

rare like if you're one in the there's

no correlation between creativity and

conscientiousness okay so if you're one

in a thousand if you're the most

creative person in a thousand and you're

the most conscientious person in a

thousand you're one person in a million

and musk is probably more like one

person in 100 million right something

like that maybe more but or maybe a

billion right maybe in other news this

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