"Is AMD (Radeon) Actually Screwed?" ft. Steve of Hardware Unboxed
Summary
TLDRIn this video, tech experts discuss the challenges AMD faces in the GPU market, particularly in pricing and strategy. They compare AMD's performance to competitors like Intel and Nvidia, highlighting issues with execution and pricing drops. The conversation touches on AMD's need for a high-end product and better RT performance, and critiques the company's approach to product launches. Overall, the sentiment is that AMD's Radeon division struggles to compete effectively, and they must improve their pricing strategy and execution to stay relevant.
Takeaways
- 🚀 The discussion revolves around the state of AMD's GPU market position, particularly in comparison to competitors like Intel and Nvidia.
- 💰 There's a consensus that AMD's initial pricing strategy for the 7900 XT was disappointingly high, causing a negative reception that was mitigated only after a significant price drop.
- 🔄 AMD seems to have a pattern of launching products at a high price and then quickly adjusting downwards, which raises questions about their strategic approach to market positioning.
- 🤔 The conversation suggests that AMD's internal decision-making may lack a critical voice to challenge initial pricing and strategy, leading to suboptimal market outcomes.
- 🛠️ The speakers believe that AMD needs to improve across the board, including performance, pricing, features, and innovation to stay competitive in the GPU market.
- 💡 There's a debate about whether AMD needs a 'halo' product to compete at the high end of the market, similar to Nvidia's flagship products.
- 🔄 The script mentions the rapid drop in price for AMD's 7600 XT, highlighting the company's tendency to adjust prices in response to market feedback.
- 🤝 The discussion touches on AMD's partnership with XFX and the potential for branding strategies involving AI to revitalize their product lineup.
- 📉 The speakers express concern about AMD's ability to remain relevant in the market, especially as they face pressure from both high-end competitors like Nvidia and emerging competition in the lower-end segment from Intel.
- 🏆 There's an acknowledgment that while AMD's architecture is good, the execution, particularly in terms of pricing and market strategy, has been less than ideal.
- 🔮 Looking forward, the conversation suggests that AMD's future success may hinge on their ability to learn from past mistakes and adjust their strategies for the next generation of GPUs.
Q & A
What is the main topic of the video series discussed in the script?
-The main topic is evaluating the state of various tech companies, specifically focusing on whether companies like Intel, AMD, and Nvidia are facing significant challenges or not, particularly in the context of GPU and CPU markets.
What is the Tower 300 PC case mentioned for?
-The Tower 300 is a PC case designed to showcase the computer build with angled tempered glass windows and a unique mounting stand. It features a layout that optimizes ventilation for GPUs and CPUs, including liquid coolers, and has a quick-access cooling system for maintenance.
What is the general sentiment expressed about AMD's GPU strategy in the script?
-The sentiment expressed is one of disappointment with AMD's execution on their GPU strategy. The discussion suggests that AMD's product launches and pricing strategies have not been well-received, leading to confusion and a lack of competitiveness in the market.
What is the '7900 XT' mentioned in the script, and what was the issue with its launch price?
-The '7900 XT' refers to a high-end graphics card from AMD. The issue with its launch was the initial pricing at $900, which was seen as too high and not competitive, leading to a quick price drop that confused consumers and reviewers.
What does the script suggest about AMD's approach to product pricing?
-The script suggests that AMD's approach to product pricing has been inconsistent and reactive rather than strategic. They seem to launch products at high prices and then quickly reduce them, which can be seen as a lack of confidence in the initial pricing strategy.
What is the significance of the term 'Halo product' in the context of the script?
-A 'Halo product' refers to a flagship or top-tier product that serves as a showcase for a company's capabilities and innovation. The script discusses whether AMD needs a Halo product to compete effectively with Nvidia's high-end offerings.
What is the discussion about AI in the script related to?
-The discussion about AI in the script is related to the potential for AI technology to be integrated into AMD's products, as well as the humorous suggestion of branding products with 'AI' to create a full AI-branded PC setup.
What is the script's view on the importance of ray tracing for AMD's GPUs?
-The script suggests that while ray tracing is important and is being pushed by competitors like Nvidia, it may not be a significant concern for AMD in the immediate future. However, it could become a more pressing issue if competitors improve their ray tracing performance in future generations.
What is the script's perspective on AMD's current situation with their Radeon division?
-The script implies that AMD's Radeon division is facing challenges and may be considered 'screwed' in the current market context. It suggests that AMD needs to improve across the board, from performance and pricing to innovation and market relevance.
What feedback does the script suggest for AMD to improve their GPU strategy?
-The script suggests that AMD needs to be better at everything, from performance and pricing to innovation. It implies that AMD should have a more realistic and strategic approach to product launches and pricing to better compete in the market.
What is the script's final assessment of AMD's current state in the GPU market?
-The script concludes that AMD is currently facing challenges in the GPU market, particularly with their Radeon gaming GPUs. It suggests that AMD may need to reassess their strategy and make significant improvements to remain competitive.
Outlines
🚀 Launch Strategy and Pricing Concerns
The first paragraph discusses the challenges faced by AMD in launching their products, particularly the 7900 XT, and the subsequent price adjustments that have caused confusion in the market. The conversation highlights the company's struggle to compete with Intel and Nvidia, both in terms of pricing and product positioning. The speakers also touch upon AMD's allocation of resources to the more profitable CPU market, which might be affecting their GPU strategy. The paragraph ends with a critique of AMD's execution, suggesting that they could have launched their products at more competitive prices from the start, potentially leading to better market reception.
🏆 The Quest for High-End Dominance
In the second paragraph, the discussion shifts towards the high-end GPU market, where Nvidia's 490 is compared with AMD's 700 XTX. The speakers ponder whether AMD needs a 'halo' product to compete directly with Nvidia's flagship offerings. They also consider the importance of AI in the development of future GPUs and the need for AMD to maintain relevance across different market tiers. The conversation reflects on AMD's historical product strategy and the potential implications of not having a top-tier product to compete with the latest offerings from rivals.
💡 Reflections on AMD's GPU Strategy
The third paragraph delves into AMD's broader GPU strategy, with a focus on pricing and performance. The speakers critique AMD's approach to product launches and pricing, suggesting that the company often seems to 'hope' for success rather than strategize effectively. They discuss the importance of setting realistic prices and the potential impact of AMD's supply chain decisions on their ability to compete. The paragraph also touches on the company's need to innovate and improve across all aspects of their product offerings to stay competitive in the market.
🔮 Future Prospects and the Role of AI
The final paragraph wraps up the discussion by considering AMD's future in the GPU market, the potential for a 'Ryzen moment' in GPUs, and the role of AI in product development. The speakers acknowledge the constraints faced by AMD, particularly in supply and the pressure to sell high-margin products. They also speculate on the possibility of AMD leveraging AI to improve their product offerings and the importance of staying relevant in a competitive market. The conversation concludes with a humorous note on the challenges of promoting AMD products in the current market landscape.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡7900 XT
💡AMD
💡Nvidia
💡GPU
💡Pricing Strategy
💡RTX
💡Ray Tracing
💡RDNA 3
💡Halo Product
💡AI
💡Supply Chain
Highlights
Discussion on the pricing strategy of AMD's 7900 XT and its initial disappointing launch price of $900.
AMD's quick price drop of the 7900 XT to $700, which makes more sense in the market.
The comparison between AMD's GPU performance and Intel's surprisingly competitive performance in ray tracing, particularly in Cyberpunk.
AMD's allocation of TSMC supply to their more profitable CPU products, affecting their GPU pricing and availability.
The suggestion that AMD might have benefited from launching their GPUs at a lower price point to begin with.
The importance of AMD having a 'halo' product to compete at the high end of the market with Nvidia's flagship products.
Speculation on whether AMD needs a product stack that is at least as advanced as RDNA3 to stay relevant in the market.
Concerns about AMD's ability to compete with Nvidia's RT performance and the potential impact on future generations of GPUs.
The idea that AMD's GPUs might be considered 'second class citizens' due to supply constraints and prioritization of CPU and AI products.
The potential strategy of selling last-generation GPUs as the low end while focusing on flagship products for the high end.
The impact of AMD's pricing strategy on consumer perception and the tech press's reception of their products.
The comparison of AMD's GPU situation with Ryzen's past struggles and eventual success through competitive pricing.
The role of AI in the future of GPUs and the potential for AMD to leverage AI technology in their products.
The challenges faced by AMD's Radeon division in maintaining relevance in a competitive market.
The overall assessment that AMD's GPUs, particularly in the gaming sector, may currently be in a challenging position.
The importance of realistic pricing for AMD's products and the need for a comprehensive strategy to improve their market position.
Transcripts
they seem to Just Launch products and go
it would be so nice if we could sell the
7900 XT for $900 and they're like yes
that would be great let's try it yeah on
R tracing stuff this is something we're
talking about where in sorry Tim come
over here we're talking
about Tim's going yeah change the
editorial Direction quick I don't know
if it's a strategy or if it's just like
the the same up repeatedly I think
it's that but
The Singularity has formed and the
Steves have collided I'm joined by Steve
from hard run box so first of all thanks
Steve thank thanks Steve thanks Steve
told you that right we did it right this
time and I'm going to wait for that
thing to pass we call them planes in
Australia you have planes planes well
that's what we call them that's what we
call them
yes it's weird I know topic today we
have a a video series that's been going
on for years with Gordon maun currently
at PC World and that video series is
called is Intel actually
screwed and you know I was thinking
about it and it's just not fair to only
talk about if intel is actually screwed
we need to also talk about if AMD is
actually screwed and probably Nvidia so
uh Steve first of all congratulations
you're the is AMD actually screwed
co-host I'm I'm I'm happy to be he happy
to be the co-host for the this new
series it's an exciting time yeah we
look forward to the chaos in the
comments so the the topic is going to be
on gpus We Know CPU side they're pretty
strong right now uh so I you know I
think the first question just broadly
how do you feel about where AMD is for
GPU is right now theyve got Intel to
worry about they've got Nvidia to worry
about they're kind of getting pinched
from the high-end from Nvidia Intel's
applying some pressure in the we'll call
it the the modern lowend you know what
do you think is is AMD screwed before
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description below well my feelings to
sort of summarize them very quickly is
disappointed I would say that's R3 like
maybe sound harsh like cuz it is quite a
good architecture it does work quite
well it is competitive but I just think
the way they've executed on it what
we've ultimately got at least from a
reviewer's perspective like if we look
at the day one reviews has just been
disappointing yeah uh yeah 7100 XT comes
to mind $900 I think you and I had very
similar opinions about that launch price
just I know disappointing execution
there not a bad product by any means I
think it got down to about $700 us at
one now now it makes a lot more sense I
you know that's confusing to me though
about AMD strategy I don't know if it's
a strategy or if it's just like the the
same up repeatedly I think it's
that but but it seems it really feels
like they kind of they launch something
and then they panic and drop the price
sometimes kind of fast in the instance
of 7
7600 um last year they they dropped the
price so fast that it was actually one
day before the review embargo that's
yeah $30 off yeah yeah and so you that
it's
like I I don't I guess I don't get it
where well there's a few things going on
right because there's the tsmc supply so
you know
they're allocating to Epic CPU serice
CPU where they make a lot more money I
think the cheapest one there for the
mainstream Parts is about
$11,000 which is 700 XTX money but I
think it's 4 70 square mm uh better
margin uh ccds so it's yeah way better
margins there probably higher yield so
there's that juggling act there which
you can sort of say okay well they can't
just sell cheap radio on gpus because
they've got to work out that W
relocation but then on the other side of
it you end up getting to $700 anyway so
it wasn't like that wasn't a thing they
couldn't do like they're not sitting
here here saying it has to be $900 like
we can't do it any cheaper than that
because of w for relocation how it all
works out but they're doing the thing
anyway like I think it was a month after
launch it was down about that price so
they might as well just start there yeah
Som XD dropped super fast that's the
execution side of things that's
frustrating cuz they they could have
just done that they would have got rave
reviews and I think the rdna 3 roll out
would have just been much better
received and gone a whole lot better so
that's definitely as can't remember
exactly how you worded it but a stuff up
on their end they continue the the
show they continue to do that's another
way to phrase it yeah what so what about
the high end right like nvidia's got the
490 it's their Flagship amd's Flagship
is a 700 XTX but they at least for this
generation and the rumors are we'll see
the rumors are Next Generation uh
they're kind of backing off that super
high-end direct head-to-head with
nvidia's product does AMD need a Halo
product or so I guess if we look
historically right like the
580 that for a period was kind of their
highest end at least for that family and
they had nothing not the the $600 price
range or whatever except for whatever
old might have been around yeah uh
whatever Fury was doing at the time so
do do they need a 40 a 90
equivalent I'm not I'm not firm on this
one I think they do I think they do CU
you need the whole lineup and even now
they're well you say they've got the
7800 XTX which is a competitive part and
it's pretty well priced but it is a
performance tier below so I think you do
need that sort of Halo product that
compete at the top end think about the
AI there's so much AI that can go into
that yes AI yes yes you need the ai ai
is it's what we need I I think if they
had have just gone with the 7900 XTX
because you need all the x's and then
the AI at the end maybe I agree that
would get them a tier up I think we
should just replace the X's with AI I
don't know I can you do that though you
need a lot of x's I think that's been
proven well if you partner with XFX you
still get the X's I think it's actually
plural it's X true that's true so you
get the XFX 8900 AI T AI yes good point
yeah yep and then you can get an AI SSD
an AI memory stick an aii motherboard
the other day seen there's nothing I
haven't seen that oh maybe liquid cooler
I saw an AI okay we're getting close so
I think you can build a full AI branded
PC so maybe there's hope for amd's radi
on division but no seriously I I I think
the answer is they do need a product
stack that at least is at least rna3 I
think you do need to be relevant at most
points in the
market you know the 57 Parts like the
5700 XT did quite well I mean some
perhaps driver issues aside uh that
product did manage to perform well uh
sort of to the mid-range and then the
lower end offerings were probably a bit
but it's really tough to be relevant
when you compete for half of a product
stack yeah so what about on R tracing
stuff this is something we're talking
about where in sorry one Tim come over
here we're talking
about Tim's
going change the editorial Direction
quick
so for uh for rate tracing uh Intel has
been really bizarrely competitive in
some ways at least compared to AMD so
like cyberpunk to the best of my memory
last time we looked at it I think kind
of price for price they
were they were oddly enough uh okay at
cyberpunk RT as compared to AMD that we
like reran all the tests to make sure
you know it came back the same way so
it's architecturally they're doing
something different that seems to
benefit them you know
how how important do we think that is
cuz nvidia's been pushing RT forever and
I I think you and I both for the longest
time were like raster is what we're
going to keep focusing on and you slowly
add some RT but you is that something
that should be not from a consumer
purchasing perspective but from amd's
perspective is that something they need
to be worried about about you know RT
Partnerships with Nvidia and then
Intel's competitive the RT performance
every generation becomes more of a
concern so I think if what you're saying
is we get you know a few more
Generations down the track cuz my
opinion right now is RT for an AR
a770 personally don't think it's super
relevant but what you're saying is
technically true it does it better um if
you're happy with very low FPS gaming
it's very low resol sols with probably
other qualities upale it sure AI
upscaling get that in there so y some
some AI upscaling you can do that uh so
not I don't think yeah I don't think
it's a great concern now for AMD or the
people buying their cards we're focusing
more on AMD here but if we get a few
more Generations down the track and
Intel's performance you know gets
further and further along and becomes
more just from entry levels and more
mid-range and hopefully one day towards
the high end and if they uh considerably
better at R Racing which will be well a
considerably more important feature by
then then yeah that's definitely a huge
problem for AMD so they've got well
amd's always got their work cut out for
them especially the radon division don't
they so yeah another growing concern
there for for the radon group what um
what do you think if you have to boil it
down in as reductive a way as possible
if we want to provide the least useful
feedback for
AMD uh what do you think think their
biggest problem is on the GPU side least
you yeah so the biggest picture broadest
stroke least specific criticism so you
want me to just be like be better yeah
let's just you know kind of like how
they talk to the Press about we're good
at this yeah what what do they need to
what do they need to improve everything
we want more performance better prices
more features better Innovation do all
the things uh yeah
I think that's the kind of feedback that
they're they're missing you know there's
not enough people internally saying we
should be better at everything well look
we've tried to give them uh sort of
serious honest uh I dare say
professional feedback um of things like
we talked about earlier like work out a
realistic price for a product uh sort of
they seem to Just Launch products and go
it would be so nice if we could sell the
77900 XT for $900 and they're like yes
that would be great let's try
and there's just like no one sort of go
uh I have some problems with that that's
going to not fly it's not going to go
well they just seem to Hope and send it
is that the impression you get that is
the impression I get one of the most
common comments I've seen uh about AMD
in this on the pricing front from just
users in the comment section has been
AMD can't win on the strategy of $50
cheaper than Nvidia yeah and $50 is one
of the better disc
yeah so so do you think is it sufficient
if AMD fixes their pricing strategy you
know to reenter the discussion more is
it if I think on my side so like the
7900 XT is a great example where uh a
couple months ago when we Revisited it
it was like 700 bucks or something yeah
which is which in November was actually
amazing it was before the Super Series
and um that was good I I don't know if
like if we can expect them to launch at
that kind of pricing or not but do you
think let's just pretend they could yeah
right if if they could is that enough
to by more by a larger volume of people
be actually considered yeah I honestly
think that's it's that simple I really
do because again if you and I had have
reviewed the 1700 XT at launch for $700
and maybe Dro you know the XTX down
closer to 900 and whatever makes sense
you know the rest I think you called it
a plane earlier plane yes that's right
isn't it
Tim sort of he's sh he's confused now
he's just shaking his head and all right
I think he's agreeing now so we'll wait
for the plane to go past what was I
saying yes so 7900 XT at the $700 out
launch well I don't want to sort of talk
ourselves up but I think if it have
launched at $700 and I'm not just
talking about you and I in a bubble but
the whole Tech press across the globe I
think the reviews would have been much
more positive we would have been
recommending it this is a great product
um you know the S the RTX 480 at $1,200
would have looked a bit foolish yeah get
the 7800 XT but that wasn't the
messaging the thumbnails I think we were
chucking it in a dumpster and and I had
like
$900 something like meh or LOL or
something like it was bad yeah I don't
remember what hours were was but it was
it was also pretty critical I remember
filming it in the rain in Taiwan that's
what I remember this is like my mood
yeah yeah so okay so maybe if they
adjust the pricing they can kind of get
it back on track so it's not just the
$50 discount Tim and I always say it's
the ryzen strategy right cuz risen was
not competitive for a long time like the
gaming performance was almost borderline
embarrassing at times productivity was
always quite good so that was a you know
a strong selling point and power
consumption was Al always reasonable but
you could sell them the gaming
performance cuz they were Dirt Cheap
yeah zen zen one had some hit and miss
moments depending on the CPU y Zen well
the 2000 series from what I remember I
think that was 2700 was competing with
at the at the best Ral it was the 8700k
I think a little after maybe I'm service
October or something yeah yeah gaming
was still pretty rough on AMD there but
again the pricing was crazy so it was
hard to pass up and a lot of people
didn't which is why they sold so well
and again I think a 700 XT at launch
$700 ever it's still a sort of a
disappointing price point for that
particular product but you know plenty
of AR and so can they can they repeat a
a rise in moment for gpus yeah like
there was a lot there like the chiplet
strategy was big for ryzen coupling it
with Enterprise I think to your point
earlier is huge cuz they're all
basically the same
silicon uh so can that replay I mean it
could uh I don't think it will because
there is you know the Enterprise stuff
like yeah there's no point selling that
silicon as a dirt cheap radon product
when you can sell it for an expensive
service CPU and that's the whole
industry right now right like nvidia's
just worked out how to do that with gpus
to an extreme degree so AMD wants in on
that and you shareholder pressure and
all that sort of stuff so there's no way
they letting them sell big huge you know
dieses for next to nothing as much as
I'd like that to happen and I'm sure all
audience would as well yeah I think so
definitely supply seems like a big
constraint for them y ship Supply so I'm
it's gotten that crazy and it's so dire
now in the gaming GPU industry that
maybe
selling and I don't want to put that out
there as I'm encouraging this but also I
don't know if it would be the worst
solution is having the CPUs or the
server stuff the AI stuff on the latest
node and selling the gaming stuff we're
second class citizens let's just admit
it now like we we just are right it's
true it's come to that so you mentioned
the 580 that was sort of that situation
right um I think if people could get a
reasonable GPU at a reasonable price
there's obviously going to be that
period which we're going through anyway
where there's just no improvement
because the previous nodes don't compete
with the current nodes we're kind of
seeing that with Nvidia where they they
are at least from my observation it
feels like they're selling the last
generation for longer or the 30 series
maybe it was just over purchasing but
like they've sold it so late into the
life of the 40 series yeah that I almost
wonder if the strategy is going to be
let's take the last generation make that
the low end and then maybe we just have
some Flagship two products it's a hard
pill to swallow but I I I've got no
better solution to you know obviously I
I don't want to be seen to him be
encouraging those sort of things but
also being realistic and understanding
what's going on I I so to be clear
you're you're saying you're encouraging
those S things yes um I just wanted to
clarify that I'm all for AI G oh AI is
great I love my favorite I I personally
I love sitting you know like the 2our
Keynotes where they just talk about AI
I'm trying not to laugh the whole time
while you do this and I just why would
you laugh this is very serious yeah know
it's my favorite I love watching two
hours of AI and Night Market discussion
it would have been much more
entertaining for our audience uh we
could have added you to the mix if we
had have just live streamed Tim and I
talking about it and throw you in there
that's that's a great comedy show I
think that would have been great yeah
our biggest complaint was they didn't
give us enough memes but they also
didn't give us enough information yeah
yeah yeah so we're kind of stuck in the
middle so we're making up our own the
whole way through it was a lot of fun so
to try and answer the
question is
AMD parenthesis gpus uh are they
actually
screwed right
now yeah I think so I think the answer
is yes
uh it's a tough one to answer because
there's there's so much to it uh but the
I guess not so much AMD gpus but the
radon gaming gpus and it's sort of a
similar thing with GeForce right like it
must be frustrating being a GeForce
employee like you're you're you're
employed to promote these products and
and get excited about them that must be
a pretty tough job right now because of
that twetter yes so that which chance be
named but we should yeah no more yeah
quota yeah I think actually uh every
time we say those two letters uh I think
a company gets its AI wns said it all
right okay so that's going to wrap it up
so uh obviously this is an extremely
wellth thought out and serious
discussion and you should take
everything we've said with uh the the
highest import and Trust uh but
generally speaking
I I think this the answer here is we'll
need to check back and see how they do
with the Next Generation uh but
otherwise in the short term perhaps at
least a little bit screwed depending on
what you're looking at is that enough
qualifiers have I protected us from
Reddit uh no no I don't think that's
possible even with all of the AI I said
it all right well until the next
Singularity forms thank you for joining
me and that'll be it check their Channel
hardw run boxed for video I'm going to
be joining them for and that's it for
this one see you guys
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