Proton released...a Bitcoin wallet 🤨
Summary
TLDRThe video discusses the surprising release of a Bitcoin wallet by Proton, a company known for its privacy-focused services. The host expresses concern over the choice of Bitcoin due to its lack of privacy, contrasting with Proton's mission. They question why Proton didn't opt for more private cryptocurrencies like Monero and criticize the company's stance as potentially hypocritical. The host also mentions the absence of basic privacy tools in the wallet and Proton's refusal to accept Monero for subscriptions, suggesting a shift in Proton's values and a move towards Bitcoin maximalism.
Takeaways
- 😕 Proton's launch of a Bitcoin wallet feels inconsistent with its privacy-focused mission.
- 💭 The speaker is unsure why Proton chose Bitcoin over more private cryptocurrencies like Monero.
- 📧 Bitcoin transactions are public and traceable, which contradicts Proton's emphasis on privacy.
- 🚫 Proton's decision to not include privacy-enhancing features like coinjoin and silent payments is criticized.
- 🤔 The speaker questions Proton's commitment to privacy by not accepting Monero for subscriptions.
- 💡 There's a concern that Proton's choice might alienate privacy advocates and cryptocurrency enthusiasts.
- 📉 The script suggests that Proton's move could be driven by a desire to associate with Bitcoin's popularity rather than privacy.
- 🔑 The speaker highlights the irony of Proton, a privacy company, promoting a cryptocurrency that lacks strong privacy features.
- 🤝 Proton's refusal to accept Monero payments contrasts with other privacy-focused companies that do.
- 📈 The speaker speculates that Proton might be diversifying beyond privacy to become a crypto company, which confuses its mission.
- 📱 Despite the concerns, the speaker acknowledges Proton's other products like Proton Pass are still highly regarded.
Q & A
What is the main concern the speaker has about Proton releasing a Bitcoin wallet?
-The speaker is concerned that Proton, a company that emphasizes privacy, has released a Bitcoin wallet which does not offer strong privacy protection by default.
Why does the speaker find it strange for Proton to release a Bitcoin wallet?
-The speaker finds it strange because Bitcoin lacks fundamental privacy benefits and Proton's mission is centered around privacy.
What is the speaker's opinion on Bitcoin's privacy compared to traditional banking?
-The speaker argues that Bitcoin is worse than traditional banking in terms of privacy because Bitcoin transactions are publicly recorded on a ledger.
What features does the speaker believe are missing from Proton's Bitcoin wallet that would enhance privacy?
-The speaker mentions that features like coin join and silent payments, which are designed to improve Bitcoin's privacy, are missing from Proton's wallet.
What is the speaker's view on the justification Proton gives for not using more private cryptocurrencies like Monero?
-The speaker is critical of Proton's justification for not using Monero, stating that Proton's reasoning seems to favor Bitcoin's market dominance over privacy considerations.
What does the speaker think about Proton's stance on 'altcoins'?
-The speaker believes Proton's dismissal of altcoins as unsustainable businesses is biased and does not align with Proton's privacy-focused mission.
Why does the speaker question Proton's commitment to privacy with the release of the Bitcoin wallet?
-The speaker questions Proton's commitment to privacy because the Bitcoin wallet does not implement basic privacy tools that are now standard in the industry.
What other cryptocurrencies does the speaker suggest Proton could have considered for better privacy?
-The speaker suggests Monero as an alternative cryptocurrency that offers more privacy than Bitcoin.
What is the speaker's opinion on Proton's overall direction with the release of the Bitcoin wallet?
-The speaker feels that Proton's direction with the Bitcoin wallet release seems more focused on hype and market trends rather than on privacy and quality.
What is the speaker's concern regarding Proton's statement that they are not a crypto company?
-The speaker is concerned because Proton's actions with the Bitcoin wallet seem to contradict their claim of not being a crypto company, creating confusion about their mission.
How does the speaker feel about Proton's other products, such as Proton Pass, in light of the Bitcoin wallet release?
-The speaker still appreciates Proton's other products like Proton Pass, but the Bitcoin wallet release has made them second-guess their support for Proton.
Outlines
🤔 Proton's Bitcoin Wallet: A Privacy Concern
The speaker begins by expressing their initial thoughts on Proton's announcement of a Bitcoin wallet, noting that it has been only recently announced. They mention that the wallet will use Proton's email alias for transactions, which is a new feature that they haven't tested yet. The speaker is concerned about the privacy implications of a Bitcoin wallet, especially since Bitcoin does not offer strong privacy protection and can be worse than traditional banking systems. They also mention that Proton, known for its privacy focus, has not included privacy-enhancing features like coin join or silent payments in their wallet. The speaker is frustrated because Proton's choice of Bitcoin seems to go against their privacy mission, and they question why Proton did not choose a more privacy-focused cryptocurrency like Monero.
🚫 Proton's Stance on Privacy and Cryptocurrencies
The speaker continues to discuss Proton's decision to focus on Bitcoin, expressing confusion as to why a privacy company would choose a cryptocurrency that does not prioritize privacy. They mention that Proton has not accepted Monero for payments, which is a stark contrast to other privacy-focused companies. The speaker also highlights community reactions, including a thread by 'untraceable' that criticizes Proton's lack of commitment to privacy in their wallet. They note that Proton's stance seems to be influenced by a 'Bitcoin maxi' perspective, which prioritizes Bitcoin over other cryptocurrencies, even those with better privacy features. The speaker also points out that Proton has not been transparent about their reasoning, which is concerning given their mission to prioritize privacy.
🧐 Reevaluating Proton's Mission
In the final paragraph, the speaker reflects on Proton's recent moves, including the release of a Bitcoin wallet and an AI feature, and questions whether the company is shifting its focus towards hype rather than quality. They express disappointment and confusion, as these moves do not align with Proton's privacy mission. The speaker acknowledges that Proton's other tools, like Proton Pass, are excellent but is concerned about the company's direction. They invite the audience to share their thoughts on Proton's Bitcoin wallet and whether it fits with Proton's privacy mission. The speaker concludes by stating that they will continue to use Proton's services but is reconsidering their support due to these recent developments.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Proton
💡Bitcoin wallet
💡Privacy
💡Email alias
💡Public Ledger
💡Coin join
💡Silent payments
💡Monero
💡Cryptocurrency
💡Litigation
💡Bitcoin maxy
Highlights
Proton releases a Bitcoin wallet, surprising many users.
Proton's Bitcoin wallet will use email aliases for transactions.
The speaker plans to review the wallet in detail but shares initial thoughts.
Proton is known for privacy, but Bitcoin offers limited privacy protection.
Bitcoin transactions are public and traceable, unlike traditional banking.
Proton acknowledges that advanced Bitcoin privacy tools are legally risky.
Proton's choice of Bitcoin over more private cryptocurrencies is criticized.
Proton argues against altcoins, favoring Bitcoin's dominance.
The speaker questions Proton's commitment to privacy with this move.
Proton's decision to not support Monero for payments is highlighted.
Other privacy-focused companies support Monero, contrasting with Proton.
Proton's stance is seen as pro-Bitcoin and anti-privacy by some.
The speaker is concerned about Proton's positioning amid privacy and cryptocurrency.
Proton's blog post is criticized for being biased towards Bitcoin.
The speaker is unsure if Proton is now aiming to be a crypto company.
Proton's decision is compared to Google's mixed privacy practices.
The speaker expresses disappointment and will reevaluate Proton's tools.
The speaker invites discussion on whether Proton's move aligns with its privacy mission.
The speaker remains positive about Proton Pass but is conflicted about Proton's direction.
Transcripts
proton what the hell okay so I don't
really have a script for this video um
these are kind of my initial thoughts
please keep in mind this has only been
announced for about a day or two but
yeah proton released a Bitcoin wallet
and I feel very weird about it and I
think a lot of people feel weird about
it with the exception of one demographic
and so I want to talk about kind of
what's happening in my eyes and why I'm
frustrated um as well as some other
people I've spoken to and I'm going to
try to relay those as best I can now you
might be wondering what's different
about this well the main thing is in
some way it's going to use emails like
your proton email alias in order to send
money to other proton users um I still
have yet to test this this is not a
review I will probably do an upcoming
review actually diving into this more
thoroughly um but I just kind of wanted
to give the general thoughts so far
because this came out of left field for
a lot of people I kind of want to start
this by talking about in my eyes and
what I think a lot of people think of
proton is is a private alternative to
the Google Suite with overall good
privacy by default not the best but good
and that's even in kind of their mission
statement here proton privacy by default
a better internet starts with privacy
and freedom um take control of your data
and then they have all their things now
it includes proton wallet didn't include
that like two days ago essentially
privacy for a better world is kind of
the big thing that proton does and
that's their selling point my first
thing that I was really frustrated by is
two things one it's a Bitcoin wallet
only and for those who've watched the
channel and who are in any way familiar
with cryptocurrencies Bitcoin doesn't
offer very much privacy protection and I
would argue in a lot of cases it
actually is worse than a traditional
banking system because here's the thing
with a bank with a bank the person you
just sent money can't directly figure
out where you're sending other money or
how much money is in your wallet unlike
Bitcoin where it's just a public Ledger
now I'm simplifying this I know there's
a lot of Bitcoin Technologies now that
can improve this issue at least on a
surface level but the root issue still
exists which is that Bitcoin is lacking
some very fundamental privacy benefits
so it's already kind of strange for me
that a company that prioritizes privacy
as its number one thing chooses to
release a Bitcoin wallet especially when
it's lacking some basic features like
coin join and Silent payments that
actually try to make Bitcoin a little
bit more private but even proton
acknowledges here that coin joint is
dangerous to use because now you're
actively mixing currency which is
illegal so proton has now chosen a
cryptocurrency that doesn't offer good
enough default privacy and if they want
to make it more private they're now
jeopardizing themselves from a liability
perspective and they even say that here
the future of financial privacy May
therefore be decided by ongoing
litigation in the next decade and
privacy Advocates should support these
efforts how are they supporting these
efforts now the other big thing is you
might be thinking what about Monero
right because Monero is probably I'd say
the most popular and successful uh
privacy crypto project look I actually
wouldn't be upset if proton opted for
anything that offered more privacy than
Bitcoin does because again they're
privacy company but here's their
justification proliferation of altcoins
and other unsustainable businesses
became known as crypto and has taken
attention and market share away from
Bitcoin altcoins simply cannot compete
even if they have some perceived
advantages such as higher throughput or
privacy I actually talked about this on
Twitter a little bit and proton in their
history has never directly stated that
privacy is not a good enough reason to
use a more privacy respecting technology
in the past they might have said yes
this is more private but we aren't able
to do it because of technological reason
or usability concern or something like
that I go back to the two password mode
uh for proton which still exists for the
record um where essentially you can add
a second password so that you need that
password to decrypt your emails after
you log in with your normal credentials
this used to be I believe a default or
it was very easy to enable back in the
day for proton but they actually opted
to not use it because of the usability
concerns and people getting locked out
of their emails but the feature still
exists and it makes sense why they would
do that now for them to just say there
are perceived advantages like privacy
for other projects and say and not give
a reason as to why you're not pursuing
it outside of Bitcoin is the biggest and
we like Bitcoin it it seems really
strange to me from again a privacy
company and you might be thinking well
this is brand new are they going to
release more it's hard to know because
they specifically said we're not
interested in shitcoins which is a very
like Bitcoin maxy thing to say to
prevent other projects from ever being
legitimized and I think that's actually
what's really concerning here is the
proton blog is written very objectively
as if this is all true but a lot of this
is actually very debatable you know you
can say that many all coins pre-mined by
their creators and that it's just taking
energy away from Bitcoin but that's
coming from the perspective of someone
that only cares about Bitcoin I really
liked this thread by Vinnie here it just
deliberately rejects tools with higher
throughput of privacy rejecting reality
according to the author's biased Market
Opinion um I really don't understand why
a privacy company would go all in on a
project that clearly over time has just
not committed itself to privacy uh there
was actually a really good thread by
untraceable here which is you know
protons at privacy Cent company Bitcoin
is anti- privacy and the wallet itself
offers very little privacy tools at
launch like coin join silent payments
Etc it's also worth mentioning that uh
they've simply never accepted Monero
even to pay for proton so you can't give
proton Monero to get your proton
subscription that goes against many
other like really hardcore privacy
companies that we talk about back here
like mulvad and ivpn and even Tuda
supports Monero so these are all
organizations that have acknowledged
that there are privacy benefits for
their users to use Monero and of course
Fiat is more popular than Monero but
that's not a good enough reason for
again a privacy organization to
prioritize privacy tools that people
might need access to zth is probably one
of the most noteworthy people in the
space when it comes to privacy and
cryptocurrency and even he said as a
response to this threat I can't help but
air on your side here the whole
situation is extremely odd and reeks of
a lasery maxi for people who aren't
familiar with cryptocurrency stuff um
essentially a maxi is someone who only
cares about their coin and nothing else
which I'm not inherently opposed to
bitcoin I just don't think a privacy
organization should be opting to use
Bitcoin as a form of privacy um it's
really dangerous for their users it's
really not great for their users there's
a big liability for them in the process
and they're not even implementing basic
privacy tools that are now standard and
he says here none of it makes sense in
light of the broader mission of proton
without the planned Whirlpool
integration now it's kind of cool
because Seth is going to have Andy Yen
the CEO of proton um on a podcast
episode of opt out I've actually been on
opt out uh I was the first person on the
show um so if you want to check out
Seth's uh podcast opt out I'll leave it
down in the description so you all can
get uh the actual statement from Andy
once it comes out but they haven't
really spoken too much about it there
was this Reddit thread uh responding to
Monero where they even say that Monero
has a great team they're very focused
they offer a lot of privacy but they
don't want to associate proton with
criminality and I totally get that but
then they say we're not a crypto company
at the bottom so what is proton is my
next question if proton is a privacy
company then they don't release a
Bitcoin wallet which makes me think okay
are they trying to be a crypto company
then and offer multiple options for
their users with varying degrees of
privacy and then they say no we're not a
crypto company so back to my original
statement I made I think there's only
one demographic of people who are
genuinely excited for this and it's
Bitcoin people that's it it seems like
this entire product was developed and
advertised and marketed to not only only
be Pro Bitcoin but to actually be anti
everything else which is really
concerning given again the Privacy
implications of Bitcoin I've actually
made several videos talking about why
Bitcoin despite some popular belief out
there still is not an anonymous
cryptocurrency in fact by default with
many Bitcoin wallets if you send me
money or I send you money you can just
look up all the transaction history I've
ever done with that wallet it's really
bad and it's public information
essentially it's pretty much a public
Ledger of where everyone sent their
money and the tools to be able to users
are really really sophisticated and it's
even been stated by some people that
Bitcoin is actually easier to track in
Fiat so I don't really know you know I'm
trying to be levelheaded about this at
the end of the day this doesn't impact
proton's other tools it's funny because
I just made this video about proton pass
and how I've been loving proton pass so
now I'm like what the hell like it just
sucks because when you build a suite
like this now you're starting to get
into issues like Google has which is
okay Google makes nice phones but their
search engine tracks you in this way but
then they do this over here which is
pretty nice and it starts getting more
nuanced and it seems like proton is
there now where yeah maybe a couple
things they do a really solid couple
things they do aren't solid personally I
wish that proton I say this so much but
I wish they focused on actually building
out their ecosystem making everything
better making it better for people who
already pay to be in the ecosystem
instead of targeting new users all the
time um this especially it's just been
tough you know this has been a really
weird thing for me it's made me really
rethink what protons mission is uh
because just recently they released the
AI thing now they released the Bitcoin
thing and it seems like they're aiming
more towards hype than quality that's
just my opinion um we still use proton
here for techlore but I can't say I'm
not second guessing that right now um
just at the moment I feel like this is
the worst of it but you know if they
keep doing stuff like this I don't know
why I'm going to want to keep supporting
them and I say this having just released
my proton pass video like within the
last week which is Ultra positive and
like wow they really kicked ass with
proton pass and I still stand by that
proton pass does kick ass and I think
proton m is overall really solid but
it's just really hard to get it's just
really hard to understand and be a part
of a company when you don't understand
why they do what they're doing it
doesn't feel like they're being
transparent it doesn't feel like they're
being honest right now in the context of
this and it's just really hard to get
behind that um but I don't know if I'm
maybe wrong about this my perspectives
aren't fully up to date um again again I
think when things happen like this
that's when we have the most emotion so
I'm trying to be levelheaded about it
right now but I think I'm going to
process a little bit more but I'm really
curious for everyone's thoughts about
this um thoughts about if they should
have done this in the first place if
they should have done something
different with it um maybe you actually
love it and if you do love it please
explain to me like how you see this
fitting into the proton mission of
privacy but not being a crypto company
um again I want to highlight here I do
see the use case of Bitcoin in terms of
getting away from the traditional
banking system and owning your keys
owning your money getting away from all
that I get it but that's a different
goal than privacy very different goal
and that's why there's even tools like
Monero because Monero people are going
yeah you know well we understand the use
case for you wanting to get away from
the banking system but if there's no
privacy then there's some serious issues
with that especially with people who
need financial privacy proton is not
committed to your financial privacy
right now they're committed to your
financial sovereignty your you know
being able to handle your keys being
able to store your own money and I think
that's commendable but it's not the
proton mission that I'm familiar with so
yeah if you do agree with this I'd love
to hear your thoughts as to why you
think they did a good job and uh why you
think this fits in the mission that's
all I got I really appreciate you all
tuning in and I'll see you next time
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