The Second Most Essential Exercise for Managing Anxiety and Anxious Thoughts - Anxiety Course 15/30
Summary
TLDRThis video script offers practical advice on managing anxiety and overthinking through mindfulness. It explains why traditional worry suppression can backfire, referencing the 'White Bear Experiment' to illustrate the paradox of thought suppression. The script introduces Nick Wignall, an anxiety expert, who simplifies mindfulness practice for viewers, emphasizing it as a muscle-training exercise rather than a quick fix. He provides a straightforward method to focus on breath and redirect attention, advocating for longer practice sessions to achieve significant results and change in brain structure, ultimately leading to reduced anxiety.
Takeaways
- 😌 Overthinking and worrying are common issues, but they can't be easily 'turned off' as they are deeply ingrained responses.
- 🤔 Four cognitive skills discussed in previous videos can help with anxiety: challenging negative thoughts, cognitive defusion, dropping the struggle with anxiety about anxiety, and scheduled worry.
- 🧠 Mindfulness is a powerful tool to decrease anxiety by managing the perception of danger that triggers anxiety responses.
- 🎯 Mindfulness is often misunderstood; it's not just a coping strategy but an exercise to retrain the brain to be less anxious.
- 🛑 The 'White Bear Experiment' illustrates the concept of thought suppression, showing that trying not to think about something can make it recur more.
- 🔄 The more we resist worry, the more our brain focuses on it, interpreting it as a threat and thus increasing worry.
- 💡 Thoughts are uncontrollable, but we can control our attention and choose what to focus on, which is key to managing worry.
- 🌟 Mindfulness practice involves focusing on the sensation of breathing, noticing when the mind wanders, and gently bringing attention back without judgment.
- 🏋️♂️ Mindfulness should be approached like physical exercise, starting small but gradually increasing duration to build mental 'muscle'.
- 🕒 For effective mindfulness practice, aim for longer sessions (20-30 minutes) rather than short ones to see significant progress in managing anxiety.
- 🌱 Being gentle and non-judgmental with oneself during mindfulness practice is crucial for building a healthier relationship with one's thoughts and emotions.
Q & A
What are the four cognitive skills discussed in the previous videos to help with anxiety?
-The four cognitive skills discussed are challenging automatic negative thoughts, cognitive defusion, dropping the struggle with anxiety about anxiety, and scheduled worry.
What is the concept of thought suppression in psychology?
-Thought suppression is the phenomenon where attempting not to think about a specific thought or image actually leads to its increased occurrence, as demonstrated in Daniel Wagner's White Bear Experiment.
Why is it counterproductive to resist worry?
-Resisting worry can be counterproductive because it signals to the brain that the worry is significant and should be attended to more, thus increasing the frequency of worry.
How can mindfulness practice help in managing anxiety?
-Mindfulness practice helps by training the brain to control attention better, allowing individuals to shift focus away from anxiety-inducing thoughts and towards the present moment or more productive activities.
What is the common misconception about mindfulness as a coping strategy?
-The common misconception is that mindfulness should be used as a quick fix to feel less anxious in the moment, rather than as a consistent practice to strengthen the ability to control attention and manage anxiety over time.
What is the recommended approach to mindfulness for attention training?
-The recommended approach is to sit down, relax, close the eyes, and focus on the sensation of breathing without altering it, while gently bringing the attention back to the breath each time it wanders.
Why is it important to practice mindfulness regularly and for longer periods?
-Regular and longer mindfulness practice helps build the 'attention muscle,' making it stronger and more capable of handling anxiety and worry, similar to physical exercise building physical strength.
What is the recommended duration for starting mindfulness practice?
-It is recommended to start with short sessions of 2 to 5 minutes, gradually increasing to 10 minutes, and then to 20 to 30 minutes within a week to see significant progress.
How should one approach mindfulness practice to maximize its benefits?
-One should approach mindfulness practice with the mindset of exercising a muscle, not expecting immediate relaxation but being prepared for the challenge and seeing the value in the difficulty.
What is the role of gentleness and self-compassion in mindfulness practice?
-Gentleness and self-compassion are key in mindfulness practice to avoid self-judgment and to foster a positive relationship with oneself, which is crucial for long-term adherence and benefit from the practice.
What are some potential benefits of mindfulness practice beyond reducing anxiety?
-Beyond reducing anxiety, mindfulness can improve attention control, foster self-compassion, and lead to a better relationship with oneself, enhancing overall mental well-being.
Outlines
😖 Overcoming Overthinking and Anxiety
The speaker introduces the topic of overthinking and anxiety, expressing the difficulty of simply 'turning off' worry. They mention four cognitive skills previously discussed in videos to help with anxiety: challenging negative thoughts, cognitive defusion, dropping the struggle with anxiety about anxiety, and scheduled worry. The speaker emphasizes the importance of mindfulness practice as the most effective way to control attention and decrease anxiety, despite its difficulty and common misunderstandings.
🧠 The Paradox of Thought Suppression
The paragraph delves into the concept of thought suppression, referencing Daniel Wagner's 'White Bear Experiment' to illustrate how attempting not to think about something can lead to an increase in thoughts about it. This paradox is related to chronic worry, as the resistance to worry can make it more persistent. The speaker suggests that understanding this mechanism is key to overcoming the cycle of worry.
🤔 Training the Brain to Focus
The discussion shifts to how to train the brain to choose what to focus on. The speaker uses the analogy of training a dog or a child to emphasize that controlling attention is an exercise that requires practice. They introduce the concept of mindfulness as a training method, correcting common misconceptions about its use as a quick-fix coping strategy rather than a long-term skill development.
🌬 The Basics of Mindfulness Practice
The speaker outlines a simple approach to mindfulness for attention training, which involves sitting down, relaxing, and focusing on the sensation of breathing without altering it. They acknowledge that distractions will occur but emphasize that the practice lies in noticing these distractions and refocusing on the breath, viewing the process as an exercise to strengthen the ability to control attention.
🏋️♂️ Committing to Mindfulness for Progress
The speaker argues against the slow and gradual approach to mindfulness, suggesting that longer and more consistent sessions are necessary to see significant progress in reducing anxiety. They compare mindfulness to physical exercise, where the initial discomfort is part of building strength. The goal is to increase the duration of practice to 20-30 minutes to truly challenge and develop the attention control 'muscle'.
🕵️♀️ The Benefits of Mindfulness Beyond Anxiety Reduction
The final paragraph highlights the additional benefits of mindfulness beyond anxiety reduction, such as fostering a kinder relationship with oneself. The speaker advises being gentle with oneself during practice and emphasizes that mindfulness is an exercise, not just a feel-good activity. They encourage viewers to start with short sessions and gradually increase the duration, aiming for longer sessions to experience the full benefits.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Overthinking
💡Anxiety
💡Cognitive Skills
💡Cognitive Defusion
💡Scheduled Worry
💡Mindfulness
💡Perception of Danger
💡Thought Suppression
💡Attention Control
💡Worry Cycle
💡Non-judgmental
Highlights
Overthinking and worrying are difficult to stop because they are deeply ingrained responses to perceived danger.
Four cognitive skills discussed previously are challenging negative thoughts, cognitive defusion, dropping the struggle with anxiety about anxiety, and scheduled worry.
The most effective way to decrease anxiety is to stop the constant perception of danger that triggers the anxiety response.
Mindfulness practice is a powerful tool to control attention and decrease anxiety, but it is often misunderstood.
Mindfulness is hard for many, including the speaker, but its effectiveness makes it a necessary skill to try.
Nick Wignall, an expert in anxiety, explains the difficulty of stopping worry due to thought suppression and the White Bear Experiment.
The more we resist thoughts, the more our brain presents them, making chronic worry hard to overcome.
We cannot control our thoughts, but we can control our attention and what we choose to focus on.
Worry can create a cycle of rumination that makes it difficult to break free from negative thought patterns.
Mindfulness is not about avoiding feelings but about training the brain to shift attention away from unhelpful thoughts.
Mindfulness should be practiced as an exercise to strengthen the ability to control attention, not just as a coping strategy.
The basics of mindfulness practice involve focusing on the sensation of breathing and gently refocusing when distracted.
Mindfulness training can change the structure of the brain, improving the ability to focus and reducing anxiety.
Starting mindfulness practice should begin with short sessions and gradually increase to longer durations for better results.
The goal of mindfulness is not to feel relaxed but to exercise the brain's ability to focus and redirect attention.
Common difficulties with mindfulness include self-judgment and expecting immediate relaxation; gentleness and patience are key.
Mindfulness can lead to a kinder relationship with oneself and improved self-compassion.
Transcripts
[Music]
Okay. So you want to stop overthinking, or you want to stop worrying so much. You really want to
stop being anxious all the time, but when someone tells you, "Stop worrying," it's super annoying
because if you could just turn it off, you would. It's just not that easy. Now, in the last four
videos we've talked about four cognitive skills that can help with anxiety. One is challenging
your automatic negative thoughts. The second one is cognitive defusion. The third is dropping the
struggle with anxiety about anxiety. And the fourth one is scheduled worry. And hopefully
you're using these skills, um like the scheduled worry practice. And if you're like me, this
practice has decreased your worrying drastically. But how do we manage overthinking and worrying
throughout the day? How do we get good at defusing from our thoughts or shifting our attention from
anxiety about anxiety to the stuff we care about in the present moment? The single most effective
way to de decrease anxiety is to stop worrying and to stop bringing to mind the perception of
danger all the time. It's the perception of danger that triggers that anxiety response over and over
again throughout the day. And the single most effective way to learn to control your attention
is through mindfulness practice. But most people don't understand how mindfulness really works.
They misunderstand how to use it. So in this video you're going to learn a super practical,
straightforward way to use mindfulness to retrain your brain to be less anxious and to get back to
living the life you value. And just, you know, mindfulness is super hard for me personally. It
is not my favorite skill. It's just so effective that you've got to try it. So in this video you'll
learn how to do it even if it's really hard for you too. Okay. So we're going to learn
how to actually use mindfulness. But I'm going to be honest with you; I'm kind of a novice at
mindfulness. I've used it on and off for a decade. But I really wanted to bring in an expert for this
video, so I've invited Nick Wignall here to really teach us how to do mindfulness the right way. Nick
Wignall is an expert in anxiety. He's treated hundreds of people with generalized anxiety
disorder, and he's an excellent teacher, and also my friend. So hey, Nick. Thank you for joining us
today. You bet. Thanks for having me. Yeah. I'm so I'm so grateful that you're um here to teach
us and um bring all your wisdom. So um talk to us about why is it so hard to stop worrying? Oh,
man. Um yeah, worry is really tough because there's a lot of reasons, like there's all
sorts of causes of worry and situations that that that make worry difficult. But I think one of the
biggest things that is very counterintuitive but that is key for overcoming um chronic worry is,
there's there's a a concept called thought suppression in the kind of research on psychology.
There's this famous psychologist, Daniel Wagner was his name, um and he did this famous experiment
that's called The White Bear Experiment. And what he did was he had two groups of people, and he
showed them both a picture of a white white bear. One group he said, "Whatever you do for the next
20 minutes or whatever, do not think about a white bear." And the other group he didn't say anything.
And then he, basically at the, he he measured how often did people in both groups think about
the white bear. Guess what? The people who tried really hard not to think about the white bear,
their minds were constantly bombarding them with images and thoughts and white bears all over the
place. So there's this very counterintuitive thing with a lot of thoughts where the more you resist
them, the more your brain throws them at you. So I think one of the reasons why we have such
a hard time not worrying so much is because we, understandably, we resist worry so much. We try so
hard to stop worry or to escape from it or to get rid of it. And counterintuitively, what that tells
our brain is, "Oh, yikes, this thing is really bad, so we're going to be more attentive to it,
and we're going to keep reminding you of it," because it thinks worry is dangerous. So I think
fundamentally, like on a mechanics level, that's a big part of why chronic worry especially is so
tricky to deal with. Yeah, like our brain, it's so paradoxical. Like we wish or we've been told even,
"Oh, you can control your thoughts. You can control your brain." We can influence our brain
to a massive degree, but the minute we try and tell it like, "Okay, you can't think about this,
or this is, it's threatening to think about worrying, like it'll harm you if you think about
worrying," all of a sudden your brain's like, "We're going to pay a ton of attention to that."
Absolutely. And it's good to remember, to a large extent you cannot actually control your thoughts.
You can control your attention, what you choose to focus on or not. That doesn't mean it's easy,
right? It's, sometimes it's hard. And we'll get into that more. But I think that distinction
is really, really important, that - Yeah, I think that's so important because even, you
think about someone who's depressed, and they're like having a bad day, and they start thinking
all these negative thoughts, and they're like, "Oh my gosh, I shouldn't be thinking this. I'm
so bad for thinking this. What's the matter with me? Why am I thinking this? And all of a sudden
they're like trapped in this like rumination cycle, basically, that makes things worse. So,
yeah. Yeah, and it's the same with worry, right? We get trapped in these cycles. I
like to tell people that what's really helpful to me is, your thoughts are going to talk to you
all the time. You don't have to talk back. You don't have to get into a conversation with your
thoughts. You can if you want, if it's helpful, right? Yeah. But if a worry pops into your head,
it's so easy to just automatically assume, okay, I should keep talking to this and elaborating on
this. And and while that can often be tough not to do, it absolutely is possible to set boundaries on
that that chatting with our unhelpful thoughts and decide no, it's there, it's talking to me,
but I'm choosing not to talk back. Yeah. Awesome. So how can we train our brain to be able to choose
what we put attention on? Well, the first thing, I love you bringing up, bring up that term, you use
that word "train." How do we train our brain? Because the way to think about this really is,
it's about training. It's about exercise. Just like you would train a dog not to pee in your
house, right? You potty train a dog. Or just like like you would train kids to learn how
to play piano, right? Learning how to control your attention and not get caught up in worry,
it's a training exercise. Um so the the basics is when you have that distracting thought, whatever
it is - in our case we're talking about a worry - it's about acknowledging, "Hey, there's a worry,"
right? "A thought, and my brain is talking at me," but having the presence of mind to say, "That's
happening, but I don't actually want to do that. I don't want to continue elaborating on that worry
or having a conversation with that worry, and I'm going to practice moving my attention." Remember,
attention is like a spotlight. Think about like old movies in prisons, right, where there's a big
spotlight on the - Yeah - prisoner, you know, like up on the wall. That's your attention,
and you can shift it. Now, it's hard. Your brain thinks something's wrong, so it's going to tend
to kind of pull you back to the worry. But with practice you can get better. Like a muscle, you
can get stronger at pulling it away from a worry and putting it onto something more productive or
helpful. Okay. And and so the way to think about it, though, is that's it's a muscle, and like all
muscles, the way you get stronger is you exercise them regularly. So how do you do - what is that
exercise? There's a lot of ways to do it. A really - arguably the most effective way to do it is what
I call mindfulness training. Now, mindfulness, big term, right? Super big term. Yeah. Now,
we we just touched on mindfulness for a second. We're going to come back to it. You're going to
teach us how to do it. But um what do you think people get wrong about mindfulness? Because this
is like probably the buzziest word in psychology of the last decade. Oh my gosh. Other than
narcissism. Okay. So here's the thing. What you get wrong about mindfulness, the big one,
is, what they ultimately want is to worry less and feel less anxious or less stressed,
but they think about mindfulness as a coping strategy, this thing you do - okay, I'm super
stressed and anxious. I'm going to like open up my tool belt of coping strategies, and I'm going
to do mindfulness real quick and then hopefully that'll make me feel less anxious. Yeah. They use
it like a Band-Aid or a way to avoid a feeling and replace it with a different feeling. Yeah.
100%. And while it's so understandable, because when you're feeling really anxious, it's awful,
right? You really, you just don't want to feel anxious anymore. The problem is when you try to,
when you avoid something, including your anxiety or worry, or try to get rid of it,
you might get some temporary relief - this is why people keep using coping skills, is because
they're they're addicting, frankly. They give you temporary relief. But long-term you're training
your brain to think that worry and anxiety are bad, which means they're going to show up more,
like those white bears, right? They're going to keep showing up even more intensely and
frequently. So I believe when it comes to how can mindfulness be useful for anxiety,
what people get wrong is they think about it as a coping skill. What they should be doing
is thinking about it as an exercise, something you do when you're not anxious or worried so that when
anxiety and worry pop up you are stronger and better able to deal with them in a helpful way
so that you don't end up super anxious and worried in the first place. Yeah. So what we're doing is
training our brain to be better at shifting its attention, and that - they've shown that that can
literally change the structure of people's brains. So, I I mean, I think it's a little bit annoying,
but sometimes people talk about like your muscles in your brain, right? Like they imagine your brain
like doing weightlifting because what's happening is when you practice or when you exercise this,
it's it's literally shifting what your brain is focusing its energy and attention on,
and sometimes in a physical way. Like they can they can see this in in brain scans, people who
are really good at mindfulness. Totally. Yeah. So so how do we practice it? Like what is the basic
mindfulness practice, the exercise that you would recommend people try when they want to
train their brain to be better at choosing where they put their attention? Totally. So I'll give
you my little uh formula. There's a very simple approach to mindfulness for attention training,
for building this muscle that allows you to take control of your intention instead of letting it be
controlled by your worry and anxiety. And so here here's what it is. It's so simple. You sit down,
you relax, you close your eyes (if you're comfortable with it; you don't have to),
and you focus on the sensation of breathing. You're not deep breathing, you're not doing
diaphragmatic breathing, you're not doing anything special. You're literally just sitting there and
you're focusing on how does it feel to breathe? Not, you're not thinking about breathing - "Am I
doing it right? Am I doing deep bre" - you're just like, "Oh, like hmm, that's interesting. Like the
bre, air feels cool when it's coming in through my nose, and it feels a little warm when it's coming
out of my mouth." It's a very descriptive exercise. You're just noticing or sort of
describing what breathing feels like. That's it. Yeah. Now, inevitably, what's going to happen is
you're going to get distracted, and that's okay. You're going to end up thinking about the bananas
you forgot to get at the grocery store or some terrible thing in politics that's happening or
whatever it is. Right? Or, really commonly, am I doing this right? You're going to start thinking
about the practice, right? Like, "Oh my God, I'm so distracted. I'm not - " So the first thing is,
that's totally normal. When you get distracted you go, "Oh, I'm distracted. That's fine. I'm going
to refocus my attention back on my my breath, on what it feels like to breathe." Yeah. And you're
going to do that, and you're going to notice how you're breathing. And then inevitably,
literally two seconds later you're going to get distracted by something else, and you're go, "Oh,
I'm distracted again." Yeah. But you're going to try. You're going to be as non-judgmental with
yourself as possible, and and just say, "Huh." Like, "All right, I got distracted again. That's
okay. And actually, it's a good thing because it allows me to practice the essential skill
that I need to get better at controlling my attention." Which is, number one, noticing,
being aware of when you're getting distracted, right? So in terms of anxiety it's like, oh, like,
anxiety has hijacked with my worry. I'm being controlled by my worries. I don't want to do that.
I want to be focusing on my kids that I'm playing with right now or the conversation I'm having with
my spouse or whatever it is, right? Yeah. Yeah. So notice, mindfulness, when you get distracted,
it it teaches you to more quickly notice when you're distracted, and then it gives you the
opportunity - it's an opportunity; it's not bad that you're distracted. The distraction gives you
the opportunity to practice shifting your focus back onto something you care about instead of
letting it be controlled by something else. So this is like the mind-blowing thing, you have
to get distracted. This would not be a helpful exercise if you didn't get distracted. People
get so down on themselves for like, "Oh, I got so distracted. It was a bad session." No. Nonsense.
It's a really good session. That's like saying, like, "The the weights were really heavy when I
was working out. It was a bad session." They're supposed to be heavy. Like you can be proud of
like being a little sore. Like you're like, "Oh, I'm so sore cuz I just really lost attention a lot
this exercise." Like. So that's that's it. That's the whole thing. You pay attention to your breath,
you get distracted, you notice that you're distracted, you refocus back on your breath.
That's it. And you do everything non-judgmentally. You're not being critical with yourself. You're
not thinking about why this is happening or what you should be doing differently or - it's
just very, very simple. It's it's like exercise, and you do it. And we can talk a little bit more
about logistics for how long do you do it and when you do it and all that kind of stuff, but I just
want to really get across the idea that it does not have to be and really should not be any more
complicated than that. That's it. Love it. I love it. I love it. And mindfulness training has been
shown to be very effective at treating anxiety and depression, right? I have found this really simple
approach to mindfulness the most effective for that specific goal. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to grab
my poster just to illustrate what we're doing, and then we're going to come back and you're going to
explain people, explain to people like what, how to implement this in their daily life. So one sec.
Great. Look, Nick, I got a poster made. Whoa. Look at it. Props, you got props. I'm so proud of
myself. I used Staples, you know. So when people are in like their default nervous system mode,
they're in a state of safety, they experience a stimulus, which they interpret as dangerous,
like, oh, someone jumps out at you from a tr - when you're on a trail, and your brain's like,
"Oh my gosh, it could be a bear," and that's what triggers the anxiety response. But the
reason people have anxiety disorders is, right here, all day long they're having these worries
pop into their brain. They're like, "Oh my gosh, what if I fail that test?" "Oh my gosh,
what if - I have that email I have to respond to." "I don't do good at work," or whatever
it is. We - "I need to do this, and I need to do that." and those worries all day long are
triggering this fight/flight/freeze response. So when people are engaging in mindfulness,
they're bringing their attention to noticing those worries and maybe redirecting their attention,
or they're noticing those worries and redirecting their attention to like, hmm, other things around
them or thoughts, like, "Oh, everything's going to be okay." And that interrupts this anxiety cycle
because, all of a sudden, instead of believing something's dangerous, you're like, "Actually,
I'm safe right now, here in the present moment. I'm safe enough." And you go from stimulus back
into the parasympathetic response. That's how I think of this, at least. So. Yeah. Totally. I,
so I would say two things on that. Yeah. This this ability to to let go of and shift your
attention off of something unhelpful, like worry, and onto something productive or or helpful, like,
you know, the conversation you're in or the work you have to do, whatever it is - Yeah - it's it's
helpful on two levels. A, in the moment, you're going to worry less, and therefore
you're going to generate less anxiety, right? So it's actually really, it's hard, but it's helpful
just literally in the moment. You will you will be less anxious. Right. It's also helpful long term,
though, because what it does is it it teaches your brain. When you stop getting obsessed with those
worries every time a worry comes - each time you you have a conversation with your worry,
you're giving it attention and you're reinforcing your brain's tendency to throw those worries at
you. If you put boundaries on them and you say, "Okay, I hear you talking to me, but actually I'm
not going to reinforce that with attention. I'm going to go on my way and do something
else," over time you teach your brain to throw fewer worries at you, which it getting - which
helps get you out of that cycle long term. And that's the real magic of learning to control your
attention and getting stronger at that ability, which mindfulness is one way um to do. Yeah. And
I I think - I I love that. Okay. So if someone wants to practice mindfulness, how do they do
it? Okay. So I have another hot take on this. Most people are way too slow and gradual when
they work into mindfulness. It's tempting to think with anything difficult - and a lot of people have
a really hard time with mindfulness - I'm one of them - in part because they think it, they think,
"I shouldn't get distracted" or "It should be easy. It should be relaxing." Yeah. Nonsense.
It's a workout. It should be hard. Getting distracted helps you build that muscle. We
covered that already. The other mistake, though, I see is that, people, you're going to get more
benefit just - so imagine this: you decide, okay, I'm going to start lifting weights because I want
to get stronger, right? But you only lift weights for five minutes a day. Now, that's nice, right?
And I'm sure there's some benefit. Better than nothing. Better than nothing. Absolutely. Right?
But but here's the thing. For, to stay motivated, to really be able to lift weights significantly,
progress is the most powerful motivator. You got to feel like you're making progress. You got to
feel like you're getting stronger. Yeah. You got to look at your biceps and go like, actually,
hey, they're a little bigger, right? Yeah. Like I'm looking, I'm looking a little better. I'm
lifting stronger. That, long term - Yeah - that progress is is what's going to motivate you to
keep going and make this a really consistent and effective practice. So what happens is if you go
too slow and too small for too long, you lo, you lose motivation, and you just give up because
you're not getting anything out of it. Mm. So mindfulness is the same way. It doesn't mean you
can't start small. You should start small, right? So this exercise I described, do it - set a timer
on your phone for five minutes - two, do it for two minutes, right? Do that for a day or two. But
pretty quickly jump up to 10 minutes for another day or two, okay? Then relatively quickly go to
20 and 30 minutes, because you will get so much more out of this if you're in the 20 to 30 minute
zone than if you're in the five minutes zone. And I know that sounds hard. Like Emma, it looks like
you're having a panic attack over there. Yeah. That sounds really hard for me, and I'm going
to try it. And I'm gonna like film the results. So yes, but like the thought of sitting still for 20
minutes for me is like, oh my gosh, that sounds so hard. Yeah. And of course, everyone's different.
Take this with it. But what I want to get across is this general principle that if you want to
stick with this long term and see the benefit of it - Yeah - you have to see results from it,
and you're you're just not going to see results if you're only doing 5 minutes a day. Like it
might be nice, and you might get some benefits from it, but if you want to put a serious dent
in your anxiety by really learning how to control your attention, like 5 minutes a day is not going
to cut it. I'm just going to be straight up. All right. It's not going to do it. Okay. It's got to
be more than that. So is it 30 minutes? I don't know. Maybe it's maybe it's 15 or 20 minutes. But
the point is it's got to be a significant thing if you want those muscles to get stronger. But
the good thing is, after the initial hump it's not like you have to grin and bear it the whole
time it. You will enjoy it more. Huh. You will feel yourself getting stronger. Okay. And it so
it will become a more enjoyable thing. It's like if anyone out there is a runner - I I had, there,
this, I - we have this family friend who was a triathlete. And I I never used to like to run.
And she used to see, she always said ,"How, well, how far do you run?" I said, "I don't know. Like
a mile." She was like, "Nobody likes running the first mile. Like it's awful. Your body's like, 'I
don't want to do this,' you know. You always feel bad. You never feel good until you start getting
to higher mileage, like three, four, five miles, and your body accepts, 'Hey, this is something
new,' and you kick into a different gear." Mindfulness training is exactly the same way.
Everybody feels crappy the first five minutes, which is why you need to push through and quickly
get to a place where you're doing 20-, 30-minute sessions. Okay. So I I I love this. And I know a
lot of people really really benefit from this. And I'm going to try it. And if I come back - because
I'm gonna I'm going to record my progress on this - if I come back and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I
enjoyed a 20-minute, like a 20-minute mindfulness session," I'm gonna I'm gonna like buy you lunch
to anywhere you want to go. Fanciest place you want to go. Arizona. All right. Remember, though,
it's all about expectations. Okay. Right. This is not a coping strategy to feel relaxed. Yeah.
The goal isn't to feel - if you went out of, if you went out of a workout and felt relaxed,
you'd actually be disappointed. You'd think, "I probably didn't get a very good workout in,"
right? Yeah. Yeah. You want to feel like, "I'm sweaty. I'm kind of nasty. I'm stinky. I'm like,
I'm sore." Yeah. Yes. A good workout. And I can totally get that when it comes to like physical
exercise. Like I really enjoy exercise, and I love a good, hard exercise. So we'll go see if I can do
do this. I'm I'm gonna do it, Nick. I'm gonna give it, I'm gonna give it my best. I believe
you, Emma. I believe you. So so do that, so a couple minute, start with two or five minutes,
do that for a couple days, up to 10 minutes couple days, and then get to 20 or 30 within a week. Yep.
Exactly. And do do you have to sit cross-legged and hold your fingers like this and say,
"Ohm"? [Laughter] It doesn't matter. I mean, you can if you want. No. Doesn't matter. I mean,
if you're doing this late at night, you don't want to be laying on your bed because you're just going
to fall asleep, right? But whatever. The, these are the kind of details that don't ultimately
matter for this type of mindfulness. Okay. Just find someplace comfortable - Okay - and get to it.
Great. Okay. And the goal of this is to exercise, not to just feel good. Exactly. It's an exercise,
not a coping strategy. Great. Okay. Awesome. Do you come across any other like common worries
or difficulties people have when they start mindfulness? Hmm. Gosh. The big one is just - it's
it's wild to me how judgmental people are of themselves with mindfulness. I don't know where
this comes from. But the thing to really keep in mind is that you just really want to be gentle
with yourself. Like think about how you are with like a best friend or, you know, with your kids
or like - There's no reason you shouldn't treat yourself trying something new and difficult with
the same level of gentleness that you would you would approach, you know, someone else,
a good friend or someone who was trying something to - You' be like, "Dude, that's awesome. That's
super hard. I know it sucks, like parts of it suck, but like good for you. Like that's
so great." Like why can't you extend the same attitude to yourself? You can. You're probably not
in the habit of doing it, but you absolutely can. And I think that's probably another ultimately
maybe even more important benefit that you can get out of mindfulness training -Yeah - is that it it
teaches you to be kinder um and to have a better relationship with yourself, which is just like,
the, that's everything. That's like the core of everything. Yeah. So be gentle. I think
gentleness is like the key word when it comes to mindfulness training. Okay. So so we're going to
get out there, go to - start with five minutes a day, let yourself notice your breathing,
not try to change it, not try to think about breathing, practice noticing, and you're going to
lose track of what you're -you're going to, your mind is going to wander. That's normal, natural,
and to be expected. Gently bring it back with love and compassion. Bring your attention back to
your breath, and then do that over and over again until your timer goes off. That's the main idea,
right? That's it. Okay. And remember, look, this is not the only way to lower your anxiety. I've
just found that this is a particularly effective way, especially if you struggle with getting lost
in conversation with your worries. If if if if you can do this, this is such an effective,
concentrated dose of working through chronic worry and anxiety. It's just so effective, so it's at
least worth giving it a really good shot, I think. Yeah. I love it. I love love it. Well, I'm going
to try it, and I'm going to come back and tell y'all how it went. I'm really looking forward to
my big steak lunch that you're going to buy me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited. I'm excited. It's going
to be, it's going to be awesome. So thank you again, so much, Nick. Really appreciate you taking
the time to be here today. Of course. Thanks for having me on. I always love chatting with you,
Emma. Yeah. And for all of you out there, you can find more of his teaching. You can sign up
for his newsletter and see some of his articles at his website, nickwignall.com. Cool. Well,
thank you. Really appreciate it. Have a good one. Of course. See you. Okay. All right.
[Music]
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