The Persians & Greeks: Crash Course World History #5
Summary
TLDRThis Crash Course episode, hosted by John Green, challenges the simplistic 'good Greeks vs. evil Persians' narrative, exploring the complexities of the Persian Empire and Athenian democracy. It delves into the historical biases of Herodotus, the Persians' surprisingly tolerant rule, and the darker aspects of Greek society, including slavery and imperialism. The episode questions the outcomes of the Persian Wars, suggesting that a Persian victory might have led to a more stable and less violent history for Greece.
Takeaways
- 🌏 The Persian Empire was a land-based model for many empires, with a light rule that allowed conquered kingdoms to maintain their own kings and elites, as long as they paid taxes and pledged allegiance.
- 📚 The Greek historian Herodotus, known for 'The Persian Wars,' introduced the concept of historical bias, being a Greek writing about the Persians.
- 🤴 The Achaemenid dynasty, founded by Cyrus the Great, is highlighted for its expansion and religious tolerance, with Zoroastrianism being a significant part of Persian culture.
- 🛣️ The Persians are noted for their infrastructure improvements, including a sophisticated mail service and road systems, facilitating rapid communication.
- 🏛️ Greek culture is celebrated for its contributions to architecture, philosophy, literature, and more, with Athens being a high point of this cultural flourishing.
- 🗳️ Athens is known for its democratic ideals, but the reality of Athenian democracy was limited to male citizens and marred by corruption and imperialism.
- 🏹 The Persian Wars were a series of conflicts between the Persian Empire and Greek city-states, starting due to Athens' support for Ionian Greeks rebelling against Persian rule.
- 🤝 The shared victory in the Persian Wars led to a collective Greek identity, with Athens emerging as a cultural and political leader.
- 🏙️ The Peloponnesian War was a conflict between Athens and Sparta, rooted in power struggles rather than ideological differences, and ended with Sparta's victory.
- 🔍 The legacy of Ancient Greece is complex, with significant contributions to Western civilization but also a history of imperialism and suppression of certain groups.
- 🤔 The script challenges the simplistic narrative of 'good' Greeks versus 'bad' Persians, urging viewers to consider the nuances of historical events and their implications on the present.
Q & A
Who is the presenter of Crash Course World History in this script?
-The presenter of Crash Course World History in this script is John Green.
What is the main topic discussed in the script?
-The main topic discussed in the script is the Persian Empire and the Greek city-states, with a focus on the Persian Wars and the cultural and political nuances of both civilizations.
Who is Herodotus and why is he significant in the context of this script?
-Herodotus is one of the first true historians, known for his book 'The Persian Wars,' which provides a significant account of the Persians. His Greek origin introduces the concept of historical bias in the narrative.
What is the significance of the Achaemenid dynasty in Persian history?
-The Achaemenid dynasty, founded by King Cyrus the Great in 539 BCE, is significant as it established the Persian Empire, which became a model for many land-based empires throughout history.
How did the Persian Empire's approach to conquered kingdoms differ from other empires?
-The Persian Empire ruled with a light touch, allowing conquered kingdoms to keep their kings and elites as long as they pledged allegiance to the Persian King and paid taxes, earning the title 'The King of Kings.'
What was the Persian Empire's stance on religion and slavery?
-The Persian Empire embraced freedom of religion and was Zoroastrian, which is considered the world's first monotheistic religion. They were not concerned with converting others and Zoroastrianism forbade slavery, making it almost unheard of in the empire.
What is the historical bias mentioned in the script, and how does it affect the narrative?
-The historical bias mentioned refers to the tendency of historians, such as Herodotus, to favor their own culture or perspective, which can influence the way history is recorded and interpreted.
What is the significance of the Peloponnesian War in the context of Greek history?
-The Peloponnesian War was a significant conflict between Athens and Sparta that lasted for thirty years. It highlighted the internal strife within Greece and ultimately weakened the city-states, paving the way for their conquest by Alexander the Great.
What is the Melian Dialogue, and why is it controversial?
-The Melian Dialogue is a famous passage from Thucydides' history of the Peloponnesian War, where Athenians demand submission from the Melians, a Spartan colony. It is controversial because it illustrates Athenian imperialism and the harsh treatment of the Melians, contradicting the democratic ideals Athens was known for.
What philosophical or cultural contributions did the Greeks make to Western civilization?
-The Greeks contributed significantly to Western civilization with their advancements in philosophy, literature, mathematics, architecture, and political thought, including the concept of democracy and the Socratic Method.
What is the script's final question regarding the Persian Wars, and what does it imply about historical interpretation?
-The script's final question asks whether the right side won the Persian Wars. It implies that historical interpretation is complex and subjective, challenging the traditional view that the Greeks' victory was unequivocally positive.
Outlines
🌍 The Persian Empire and Historical Bias
In this paragraph, John Green introduces the topic of the Persian Empire and its influence on world history, contrasting the common perception of the Persians as totalitarian with the Greeks' reputation as democracy-loving. He mentions the Persian Empire's model for land-based empires, except for the Mongols, and highlights the importance of Herodotus, the first true historian, whose bias as a Greek is noted. The Achaemenid dynasty's achievements, including Cyrus the Great's conquests and Darius the First's expansion, are discussed. The Persians' lenient rule, infrastructure improvements, and religious tolerance are emphasized, suggesting that life in the Persian Empire was quite favorable, contrary to the Greek narrative.
🏛 Athenian Democracy and the Golden Age of Greece
This paragraph delves into the complexities of Greek culture and society, focusing on Athens post-Persian Wars. Green explains that Greece was a collection of city-states with various forms of government and limited citizenship. The Persian Wars led to a unified Greek identity. Athens' Golden Age is highlighted, marked by the construction of the Parthenon and the rise of statesmen like Pericles, who boasted of Athenian democracy. However, Green also points out the darker aspects of Athenian society, including slavery and the corruption of its government, as well as the Peloponnesian War, which was more about power and resources than ideological differences.
🤔 The Ambiguity of Greek Legacy and the Broader Questions of History
The final paragraph ponders the ambiguous legacy of Ancient Greece, questioning the righteousness of the Greeks' victory in the Persian Wars. Green contrasts the potentially positive aspects of Persian rule with the realities of Athenian democracy and its eventual fall to the Spartans. He also contemplates the broader questions of history, such as the purpose of life and how societies should be organized, suggesting that these are complex issues without easy answers. The paragraph ends with a teaser for the next episode about Buddha, inviting viewers to continue the exploration of history's meaning.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Persian Empire
💡Historical Bias
💡Achaemenid Dynasty
💡Zoroastrianism
💡Ionian Greeks
💡Democracy
💡Peloponnesian War
💡Realism in International Relations
💡Pericles
💡Parthenon
💡Aristophanes
Highlights
Introduction to the Persian Empire as a model for land-based empires, with the exception of the Mongols.
Historical bias introduced through the lens of Herodotus, a Greek historian writing about the Persians.
The Achaemenid dynasty's foundation by Cyrus the Great and his conquests, including ending the Babylonian Exile.
Darius the First's expansion of the Persian Empire to include the Indus Valley, Egypt, and Anatolia.
The Persian Empire's governance style allowing conquered kingdoms to maintain their own rulers and elites under certain conditions.
Infrastructure improvements by the Persians, including better roads and an efficient mail service.
The Persian Empire's embrace of freedom of religion and the prevalence of Zoroastrianism.
Contrasting the idealized image of Greek culture with the reality of Athenian democracy and its limitations.
The role of Athens in supporting Ionian Greeks and the subsequent Persian Wars.
The shared victory of the Greeks in the Persian Wars leading to a unified Greek identity.
Athens' Golden Age and the construction of the Parthenon as a symbol of cultural flourishing.
Pericles' funeral oration and the rhetoric of Athenian democracy.
The Peloponnesian War as a conflict between Athens and Sparta over resources and power.
The Melian Dialogue illustrating Athenian imperialism and the realist theory of international relations.
The ambiguous legacy of Ancient Greece, including its contributions to philosophy and democracy, and its internal conflicts.
The question of whether the 'right' side won the Persian Wars and the implications for the development of Western civilization.
Reflection on the purpose of human existence and the organization of society, as prompted by historical analysis.
Transcripts
Hi, I’m John Green, this is Crash Course World History, and today we’re going to
do some legitimate comp. civ., for those of you into that kind of thing. Stan, I can’t
help but feel that we have perhaps too many globes. That’s better.
Today we’re going to learn about the horrible totalitarian Persians and the saintly, democracy-loving
Greeks. But of course we already know this story — there were some wars in which no
one wore any shirts, and everyone was reasonably fit. The Persians were bad; the Greeks were
good. Socrates and Plato were awesome; the Persians didn’t even philosophize. The West
is the Best; Go Team! Yeah, well, no.
[theme music]
Let’s start with the Persian empire, which became the model for pretty much all land-based
empires throughout the world. Except for — wait for it — the Mongols. [Mongoltage]
Much of what we know about the Persians and their empire comes from an outsider writing
about them, which is something we now call history, and one of the first true historians
was Herodotus, whose famous book The Persian Wars talks about the Persians quite a bit.
Now the fact that Herodotus was a Greek is important because it introduces us to the
idea of historical bias. But more on that in a second.
So the Persian Achaemenid dynasty... Achaemenid? Hold on...
HowJSay: AkEEmenid or AkEHmenid
They’re both right? I was right twice!?
Right, so the Persian AkEEmenid or AkEHmenid dynasty was founded in 539 BCE by King Cyrus
the Great. Cyrus took his nomadic warriors and conquered most of Mesopotamia, including
the Babylonians, which ended a sad period in Jewish history called The Babylonian Exile,
thus ensuring that Cyrus got great press in the Bible.
But his son, Darius the First, was even greater, he extended Persian control east to our old
friend the Indus Valley, west to our new friend Egypt, and north to Crash Course newcomer
Anatolia. By the way, there were Greeks in Anatolia called Ionian Greeks who will become relevant shortly.
So even if you weren’t Persian, the Persian Empire was pretty dreamy. For one thing, the
Persians ruled with a light touch, like, conquered kingdoms were allowed to keep their kings
and their elites as long as they pledged allegiance to the Persian King and paid taxes, which
is why the Persian king was known as The King of Kings.
Plus, taxes weren’t too high, and the Persians improved infrastructure with better roads
and they had this pony express-like mail service of which Herodotus said: “...they are stayed
neither by snow nor rain nor heat nor darkness from accomplishing their appointed course with all speed.”
And the Persians embraced freedom of religion. Like they were Zoroastrian, which has a claim
to being the world’s first monotheistic religion. It was really Zoroastrianism that
introduced to the good/evil dualism we all know so well. You know: god and Satan, or
Harry and Voldemort... But the Persians weren’t very concerned about converting people of
the empire to their faith. Plus, Zoroastrianism forbid slavery, and so slavery was almost
unheard of in the Persian Empire.
All in all, if you had to live in the 5th century BCE, the Persian Empire was probably
the best place to do it. Unless, that is, you believe Herodotus and the Greeks. We all
know about the Greeks: architecture, philosophy, literature. The very word music comes from
Greek, as does so much else in contemporary culture. Greek poets and mathematicians playwrights
and architects and philosophers founded a culture we still identify with. And they introduced
us to many ideas, from democracy to fart jokes. And the
Greeks gave the west our first dedicated history, they gave us our vocabulary for talking about politics.
Plus they gifted us our idealization of democracy, which comes from the government they had in Athens.
Past John: Mr. Green, Mr. Green, Mr. Green, Mr. Green — did you say fart jokes?
Present John: Uhh. You don’t ask about Doric, Ionian, or Corinthian columns. You don’t
ask about Plato’s allegory of the cave. It’s all scatological humor with you — It’s
time for the open letter? Really? Already? Alright.
An open letter [the whoopee cushion sounds]... Stan! To Aristophanes. Dear Aristophanes...
Oh right, I have to check the secret compartment. Stan, what... oh. Thank you, Stan. It’s
fake dog poo. How thoughtful.
So, good news and bad news, Aristophanes.
2,300 years after your death — this is the good news — you’re still a reasonably
famous. Only eleven of your forty plays survived, but even so, you’re called the Father of
Comedy; there are scholars devoted to your work.
Now, the bad news: Even though your plays are well-translated and absolutely hilarious,
students don’t like to read them in schools. There always like, why do we gotta read this
boring crap? And this must be particularly galling to you, because so much of what you
did in your career was make fun of boring crap, specifically in the form of theatrical
tragedies. Plus, you frequently used actual crap to make jokes. Such as when you had the
chorus in The Acharnians imagining a character in your play throwing crap at a real poet you didn’t like.
You, Aristophanes, who wrote that under every stone lurks a politician, who called wealth
the most excellent of all the gods... You, who are responsible for the following conversation:
"Praxagora: I want all to have a share of everything and everything to be in common;
there will no longer be either rich or poor; [...] I shall begin by making land, money,
everything that is private property, common to all. [...]
Blepyrus: But who will till the soil?
Praxagora: The slaves.
Blepyrus: Oh."
And yet you’re seen as homework! Drudgery! That, my friend, is a true tragedy. On the
upside, we did take care of slavery. It only took us two thousand years.
Best wishes, John Green
When we think about the high point of Greek culture, exemplified by the Parthenon and
the plays of Aeschylus, what we’re really thinking about is Athens in the fourth century
BCE, right after the Persian Wars. But Greece was way more than Athens; Greeks lived in
city-states which consisted of a city and its surrounding area. Most of these city-states
featured at least some form of slavery, and in all of them citizenship was limited to males. Sorry ladies...
Also, each of the city-states had its own form of government, ranging from very democratic
— unless you were a woman or a slave — to completely dictatorial. And the people who
lived in these cities considered themselves citizens of that city, not of anything that
would ever be called Greece. At least until the Persian wars.
So between 490 and 480 BCE, the Persians made war on the Greek City states. This was the
war that featured the battle of Thermopylae where three hundred brave Spartans battled
— if you believe Herodotus — five million Persians.
And also the battle of Marathon, which is a plain about 26.2 miles away from Athens.
The whole war started because Athens supported those aforementioned Ionian Greeks when they
were rebelling in Anatolia against the Persians. That made the Persian king Xerxes mad, so
he led two major campaigns against the Athenians, and the Athenians enlisted the help of all
the other Greek city-states. And in the wake of that shared Greek victory, the Greeks began
to see themselves as Greeks, rather than as Spartans, or Athenians or whatever.
And then Athens emerged as the de facto capital of Greece and then got to experience a Golden
Age, which is something that historians make up. But a lot of great things did happen during
the Golden Age, including the Parthenon, a temple that became a church and then a mosque
and then an armory until finally settling into its current gig as a ruin.
You also had statesmen like Pericles, whose famous funeral oration brags about the golden
democracy of Athens with rhetoric that wouldn’t sound out of place today. “If we look to
the laws, they afford equal justice to all in their private differences... if a man is
able to serve the state, he is not hindered by the obscurity of his condition.”
When you combine that high-minded rhetoric with the undeniable power and beauty of the
art and philosophy that was created in ancient Athens, it’s not hard to see it as the foundation
of Western civilization. And if you buy into this, you have to be glad that the Greeks
won the Persian Wars. But even if you put aside the slavery and other injustices in
Greek society, there’s still trouble.
Do I have to say it, seriously? FINE. TROUBLE RIGHT HERE IN RIVER CITY WITH A CAPITAL T
AND THAT RHYMES WITH P AND THAT STANDS FOR PELOPONNESE.
Pericles’s funeral oration comes from a later war, The Peloponnesian War, a thirty
year conflict between the Athenians and the Spartans. The Spartans did not embrace democracy
but instead embraced a kingship that functioned only because of a huge class of brutally mistreated
slaves. But to be clear, the war was not about Athens trying to get Sparta to embrace democratic
reform; wars rarely are. It was about resources and power. And the Athenians were hardly saintly
in all of this, as evidenced by the famous Melian Dialogue. Let’s go to the Thought Bubble.
So in one of the most famous passages of Thucydides’ history of the Peloponnesian War, the Athenians
sailed to the island of Melos, a Spartan colony, and demanded that the Melians submit to Athenian
rule. The Melians pointed out that they’d never actually fought with the Spartans and
were like, “Listen, if it’s all the same to you, we’d like to go Switzerland on this
one,” except of course they didn’t say that because there was no Switzerland.
To which the Athenians responded, and here I am quoting directly, “The strong do what
they can, and the weak suffer what they must.”
Needless to say, this is not a terribly democratic or enlightened position to take. This statement,
in fact, is sometimes seen as the first explicit endorsement of the so-called theory of Realism
in international relations. For realists, interaction between nations, or peoples, or
cultures is all about who has the power. Whoever has it can compel whoever doesn’t have it
to do pretty much anything.
So what did the meritocratic and democratic Athenians do when the Melians politely asked
not to participate in the fight? They killed all the Melian men and enslaved all the women and children.
So, yes, Socrates gave us his interrogative Method; Sophocles gave us Oedipus; but the
legacy of Ancient Greece is profoundly ambiguous, all the moreso because the final winner of
the Peloponnesian War were the dictatorial Spartans. Thanks for the incredible bummer, Thought Bubble.
So here’s a non-rhetorical question: Did the right side win the Persian wars?
Most classicists and defenders of the Western Tradition will tell you that of course we
should be glad the Greeks won. After all, winning the Persian war set off the cultural
flourishing that gave us the Classical Age. And plus, if the Persians had won with their
monarchy that might have strangled democracy in its crib and given us more one-man rule.
And that’s possible, but as a counter that argument, let’s consider three things:
First, it’s worth remembering that life under the Persians was pretty good, and if
you look at the last five thousand years of human history, you’ll find a lot more successful
and stable empires than you will democracies.
Second, life under the Athenians wasn’t so awesome, particularly if you were a woman
or a slave, and their government was notoriously corrupt. And ultimately the Athenian government
derived its power not from its citizens, but from the imperialist belief that Might Makes
Right. It’s true that Athens gave us Socrates, but let me remind you, they also killed him.
Well, I mean they forced him to commit suicide. Whatever, Herodotus, you’re not the only
one here who can engage in historical bias.
And lastly, under Persian rule the Greeks might have avoided the Peloponnesian War,
which ended up weakening the Greek city-states so much that Alexander “Coming Soon” the
Great’s father was able to conquer all of them, and then there were a bunch of bloody
wars with the Persians and all kinds of horrible things, and Greece wouldn’t glimpse democracy
again for two millennia. All of which might have been avoided if they’d just let themselves
get beaten by the Persians.
All of which forces us to return to the core question of human history: What’s the point
of being alive? I’ve got good news for you, guy. You’re only going to have to worry
about it for about 8 more seconds. Should we try to ensure the longest, healthiest,
and most productive lives for humans? If so, it’s easy to argue that Greece should have
lost the Persian Wars. But perhaps lives are to be lived in pursuit of some great ideal
worth sacrificing endlessly for. And if so, maybe the glory of Athens still shines, however dimly.
Those are the real questions of history: What’s the point of being alive? How should we organize
ourselves, what should we seek from this life? Those aren’t easy questions, but we’ll
take another crack at them next week when we talk about the Buddha. I’ll see you then.
Crash Course is produced and directed by Stan Muller, our script supervisor is Danica Johnson,
the graphics team is Thought Bubble, and the show is written by my high school history
teacher Raoul Meyer and me.
Our phrase of the week last week was "Un mot de français". If you’d like to guess this
week’s phrase of the week you can do so in comments. You can also ask questions about
today’s video in comments where our team of historians will attempt to answer them.
Thanks for watching, and Don't Forget To Be Awesome.
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