Asking Google Engineering Manager How To Get Hired

Summary

In this video, an engineering manager at Google shares insights on the current job market's challenges, emphasizing the importance of continuous learning and staying technically sharp. Despite the abundance of information on platforms like YouTube, distinguishing oneself in interviews and the job market requires going beyond basics. The manager advises focusing on growth over promotions, learning from mistakes, and being prepared for the dynamic software industry. They also discuss the impact of AI on jobs, suggesting a strong foundation in basics is essential, and soft skills become increasingly valuable as one advances in their career.

Takeaways

• 🎓 **Self-Education is Key**: You don't necessarily need to attend a university to learn computer science; platforms like YouTube offer comprehensive learning resources.
• 🔍 **Market Challenges**: The current job market is tough with many applicants and fewer openings, making it harder to secure a job compared to previous years.
• 💼 **Employer's Market**: It's currently an employer's market, meaning employers have many options and are likely to choose the most experienced candidates.
• 🚀 **Stay Technically Sharp**: Regardless of your current job status, continuously work on side projects and stay updated with the latest technologies.
• 📈 **System Design Importance**: Basic system design knowledge is expected; what differentiates candidates is their ability to drive the design conversation and demonstrate leadership.
• 🏅 **Excel Beyond Basics**: To stand out, go beyond basic knowledge and demonstrate a deep understanding, including technology choices and nuances.
• 📚 **Continuous Learning**: Focus on continuous learning and growth rather than just seeking promotions; this approach will serve you better in the long run.
• 🔄 **Adaptability**: Be prepared to unlearn and relearn as the software industry is dynamic and changes rapidly.
• 🔗 **Resume and Skills**: A strong resume and good knowledge of data structures, algorithms, and system design are table stakes for getting a job in the current market.
• ⏰ **Timing is Important**: Given the current tough market conditions, it might be wise to stay in your current job and prepare for future opportunities rather than job-hopping.

Q & A

What is the current job market situation according to the interviewee?

The current job market is tough with fewer openings and more competition. Employers have many options and are choosing the most experienced candidates, making it harder for new graduates and those seeking senior roles.

What advice does the interviewee give to those looking to break into big tech companies?

To break into big tech, one should stay on top of their game, be technically proficient, and always be ready for interviews. It's also important to stay current with industry trends and continue learning to stand out from the competition.

Why does the interviewee suggest that one doesn't need to go to school for computer science?

The interviewee suggests that for computer science, especially software programming jobs, the whole university curriculum is available on platforms like YouTube. Therefore, formal education is not the only way to acquire knowledge, but what sets individuals apart is what they do beyond that.

What does the interviewee mean by 'driving the system design' in an interview?

When 'driving the system design' in an interview, the interviewee refers to taking a leadership role in the conversation, providing detailed insights, and showcasing a deep understanding of technology and its application, which can help differentiate candidates in a competitive job market.

How does the interviewee define growth in a career?

Growth in a career is defined by the interviewee as moving beyond one's comfort zone, continuously learning, and challenging oneself to acquire new skills and knowledge that were not previously known or utilized.

What is the interviewee's perspective on job hopping in the current market?

In the current tough job market, the interviewee advises staying put if one has a job and is comfortable. It's not the best time to job hop as it may lead to downleveling or lower salaries due to the employer's market.

How does the interviewee view the impact of AI on the software industry?

The interviewee views AI as a phase of disruption similar to the introduction of calculators. They believe that understanding the basics and having strong foundational knowledge will always be valuable, and those who grasp the fundamentals will always be needed in the industry.

What advice does the interviewee have for engineers starting their careers?

For those starting their careers, the interviewee advises focusing on understanding computer science fundamentals, staying curious, and continuously learning. They also emphasize the importance of being able to handle ambiguous problems and scope them down effectively.

What does the interviewee mean by 'writing systems and debugging systems' as a senior engineer?

The interviewee uses 'writing systems and debugging systems' as a metaphor for the responsibilities of a senior engineer, which involves designing and optimizing complex systems rather than just writing and debugging code like a junior engineer.

How does the interviewee suggest one should approach career growth?

The interviewee suggests approaching career growth by focusing on what one could not do five years ago and how to leverage their experience to contribute at a higher level. It's about differentiating oneself by taking on responsibilities that junior engineers cannot handle.

What is the interviewee's view on the importance of soft skills in the software industry?

The interviewee highlights the importance of soft skills such as communication, leadership, and the ability to handle tough situations and conflicts, stating that these skills become increasingly valuable as one grows in their career.

Outlines

00:00

🎓 Education and Job Market Realities

The paragraph discusses the current job market for computer science graduates and the importance of self-learning through platforms like YouTube. The speaker emphasizes that while there are not enough job openings, one can impress interviewers by showcasing their skills and knowledge acquired outside of traditional education. The interviewee, Derra, an engineering manager at Google with 20 years of experience, shares insights on the hiring process, the impact of market conditions on job seekers, and the increased competition for positions. He advises job seekers to stay technically sharp and engaged in side projects to remain competitive in the job market.

05:00

🚀 Advancing in the Software Industry

This section of the script focuses on how to stand out in a competitive job market. Derra suggests that while basic system design knowledge is essential, it's not enough to differentiate oneself. He recommends going beyond the basics to demonstrate leadership and depth of knowledge during interviews. The conversation also touches on the importance of continuous learning and the challenges faced by new graduates. Derra shares his thoughts on the current job market, advising individuals to stay in their current positions if they are stable, due to the tough market conditions. He also discusses the impact of AI on the industry and the importance of understanding the basics and having strong problem-solving skills.

10:01

🌟 Career Growth and Adaptability

The final paragraph covers career growth in the tech industry, with Derra providing advice for engineers at various stages of their careers. He stresses the importance of understanding one's role at different levels within a company and the need to demonstrate skills that justify one's experience and seniority. Derra also talks about the cyclical nature of the job market and encourages individuals to stay put during tough times, focusing on learning and readiness for future opportunities. He concludes with the idea that a career in tech is a marathon, not a sprint, and that consistent growth and learning are key to long-term success.

Keywords

💡Computer Science

Computer Science refers to the study of computers and computing processes. In the video, it is mentioned as a field where self-learning through platforms like YouTube can be as effective as formal education. The script suggests that with the wealth of information available online, one doesn't necessarily need to attend a traditional university to gain knowledge in computer science.

💡Interviewers

Interviewers are individuals who conduct job interviews. The video emphasizes impressing interviewers as a key to securing a job in the competitive tech industry. The script suggests that going beyond basic qualifications and showcasing a deep understanding and practical application of skills can help candidates stand out to interviewers.

💡Engineering Manager

An Engineering Manager is a professional who oversees a team of engineers. In the transcript, Derra, an Engineering Manager at Google, shares insights about the tech job market and offers advice for career growth. This role is crucial as it bridges the gap between technical expertise and managerial responsibilities.

💡Hiring Freezes

A hiring freeze is a period when a company stops hiring new employees. The script mentions that hiring freezes and layoffs make it difficult to get jobs in the current market. This concept is tied to the economic conditions and the health of the job market within the tech industry.

💡Market Conditions

Market conditions refer to the state of the job market. The video discusses how the current market is tough with fewer job openings and more competition, which is a significant factor for job seekers to consider. Understanding market conditions is vital for professionals to strategize their job search and career growth.

💡Side Projects

Side projects are additional work or tasks undertaken outside of one's primary job. The video encourages professionals to engage in side projects to stay sharp and current in their field. These projects can also showcase a candidate's initiative and skill set to potential employers.

💡System Design

System Design is a concept that refers to the process of planning and creating systems. In the context of the video, system design is highlighted as a crucial skill for software engineers. It's not just about knowing how to assemble basic components but also about understanding how to drive and optimize complex systems.

💡Promotion

Promotion refers to the advancement in job rank or title. The script discusses the importance of focusing on growth rather than just seeking promotions. It suggests that promotions are tied to an individual's ability to take on more complex tasks and responsibilities, which is a key aspect of career progression.

💡AI

AI stands for Artificial Intelligence, which is the development of computer systems to perform tasks that typically require human intelligence. The video addresses concerns about AI replacing jobs and suggests that understanding the basics and having strong foundational skills will always be in demand, even as AI evolves.

💡Job Stability

Job stability refers to the security and continuity of employment. The script touches on the fluctuating nature of job stability in the tech industry, advising that in a tough market, it might be wise to stay in one's current job rather than risk being undervalued or downgraded in a new position.

💡Career Growth

Career growth refers to the process of advancing in one's career through increased responsibility, skill development, and higher job positions. The video emphasizes that career growth is a marathon, not a sprint, and that it's important to continually learn and challenge oneself to take on more complex problems as one progresses in their career.

Highlights

You don't necessarily need to go to school for computer science, as resources like YouTube offer free, comprehensive education.

Today's job market is tough, with more candidates than job openings, particularly due to layoffs from the previous year.

In this competitive job market, employers are likely to pick more experienced candidates, often hiring them at lower levels.

To break into Big Tech, it’s essential to stay current and continuously improve your skills, even when you're not actively interviewing.

Keep working on side projects to maintain technical sharpness, even if you already have a job.

The basics of system design, like setting up a client, load balancer, and database, are now considered standard knowledge for candidates.

What sets senior-level candidates apart is their ability to take leadership and communicate advanced technical insights during interviews.

Focusing on continuous growth and learning is more important than racing toward promotions or new job titles.

Rushing through promotions can backfire, leading to being down-leveled when switching jobs due to lack of broader skills.

Understanding the core fundamentals of software engineering remains essential, even in the age of AI.

Despite the rise of AI, having a deep grasp of the basics will help you navigate challenges that AI tools alone can’t solve.

In tough economic phases, it may be wise to stay at your current job and focus on learning, instead of experimenting with job hopping.

AI will likely become a standard part of work processes, but mastering communication, problem-scoping, and leadership will be key differentiators.

To grow in your career, you need to transition from executing tasks to solving higher-level system challenges and mentoring junior engineers.

As you gain experience, focus on roles where you can apply your knowledge to manage teams or systems, not just code.

Transcripts

you actually don't need to go to school

you know especially for computer science

I would say people uh looking for jobs

there not enough openings today's case

what happens is you go to YouTube the

whole university is right there so

that's where I feel you'll be able to

impress interviewers more and then you

change a job or something and then you

are down leveled why two decade back

when I started my journey so we're back

on Google campus if you guys remember I

interviewed durra in person that's where

we met actually and I thought I'd come

back because he's an engineering manager

so we can get some insights from him

today so why don't you just go ahead and

introduce yourself first yeah hey folks

uh my name is darra uh I'm an

engineering manager here at Google uh in

the Google Cloud org 20 years of work

experience in the software industry for

the last decade or so I've been working

as an engineering manager in various

capacities worked at startups big

companies small companies so cool yeah

well let's start with a media question

you know hiring freezes layoffs it seems

like it's really hard to get a job these

days is that true from I mean managing

perspective at Big Tech and then maybe

more importantly how do we kind of break

through it it is true I mean the market

is uh kind of tough um these days I

coach and Mentor a lot of folks and um

the temperature I'm getting from outside

is bit less you know people are looking

for jobs there not enough openings um

you know last year's layoff is not yet

healed properly fully yet so uh yes it

is uh kind of tough you know people are

I mean employers are getting lot many

options and they're choosing the best

most appropriate so it's not as easy as

it was uh like 2022 and I'm hearing that

it's biased towards seniority so it's

it's it's very hard for new grads a lot

of people are looking for senior roles

well I I wouldn't say exactly that but

the point is for every level right you

need people at every level uh but the

point is there are too much competition

and I'm not sure you know I'm not not

done a market study to see that

seniority maybe you're right uh but at

the same time they scarcity right so

basically it's employer market so if

given 10 resumes you know you would

obviously pick the more experience and

sort of hire them at a lower level if

you will that's how employers Market

behave so sure so the next question is

do you have any advice like let's say

you're back in the market recruiting and

you could tailor this to maybe like a

great Market or maybe the current market

when you're trying to break into big

Tech like how would you advise people to

do that yeah I think a general thing is

you want to be on top of your game right

that's number one so you don't want to

just prepare for interviews at the time

of interview and then you know get a job

and after that you sort of you know get

into this Loop of delivering things but

you know you lose your touch and that's

what I recommend I myself you know

that's one of the reasons I teach uh the

courses I teach is to stay current stay

very technical is to sort of always be

ready right and that's what I would

advise if you have gotten a job still do

some side side projects deliver at your

workplace no questions you know you

don't want to uh slack over U there at

all but at the same time just don't

relax and just in this economy in this

in fact our profession software industry

itself is pretty Dynamic so you want to

be able to always be able to sort of

unlearn and learn multiple times sure so

you don't want to just slack back that's

the only advice I would give you but of

course you know other popular advices we

already know what to do and things like

that but maybe we can talk about that in

detail but sure that's that's the number

one thing I would say yeah that makes

sense so I think a lot of people know

that you know resume is really important

make sure DSA is really good system

design like all these things you have to

do it it almost feels like that's table

Stakes without that you can't get the

job but there's a lot of people that

practice hard they study hard they do

all of that but there's still so many

candidates there's only so many openings

and this Market even less now that

you've been in the industry 20 years to

all these people that are trying doing

all these things but it's not working

like what else is there something you

might have learned through your

experience that can help them out yeah

very good question so this is my take on

it right I I've been pondering about

this question so think about it like a

two decade back when I started my

journey yeah there less information out

there in the public only books uh were

the only source of information there was

no YouTube right things were not even

born that time uh so it was harder uh to

start off you know acquire the knowledge

but then if one who acquired the

knowledge had an edge today's case what

happens is you go to YouTube the whole

university is right there yeah you

actually don't need to go to school you

know especially for computer science I I

would say uh especially for you know

software programming jobs but the point

is that is available for everyone yeah

what do you do beyond that is what

counts because that's how you'll be able

to differentiate sure so one of the

things is let's say system design let's

talk about that right so system design

if you say if you're able to put basic

things together a client a load balancer

ABS server and database and things like

that no SQL SE this is table sck

everybody knows it this is basic

expectations people are not even

questioning you there right now people

are thinking about how do you drive it

right so you can clear the system design

interview but at the same time which

seniority will you be bucketed that is

determined upon how do you drive it do

you take more leadership right there

conversation like for example at a staff

level you may be expected to sort of

teach me something yeah right I'm also

at the similar level I'm hiring can you

teach me something can I learn something

from you right there in the interview do

I do I see something that probably is

the bar right for senior candidates also

are you talking about much detail are

you talking about technology as well you

use redis or you know other technology

why do you have familiarity do you have

any Nuance thing there or are you

talking in general stuff right so that's

where I feel you'll be able to impress

the interview interviewers more you got

to have an edge the competition is high

you how would you outrun them is the

only way no that makes sense thank

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now let's get back to the video I think

another way to think about this is

through our careers we all make mistakes

and so I'm sure there's things you could

have done differently some people are

looking for advice so they don't make

those same mistakes if you refer back to

your own career or maybe careers of

other people you've mentored are there

glaring issues you've seen that you're

like oh maybe we shouldn't do that or

like think about things a little

differently that could help people it's

it's a broad question but couple of

thoughts which come to me I'll I'll

share that yeah so one of the thing is

you know some people are just focused on

going to the next level getting promoted

as fast as possible it's like after

sometime there's not much growth I mean

there are only 10 levels A to Z right if

you talk about the software to senior

and staff and Senior staff and principal

and whatnot only 7 8 10 levels how where

else will go if every you do it's not

possible right number one number two is

rather than focusing on going to the

next level focus on growing to the next

level because that is otherwise what

will happen is you keep climbing up and

then you change a job or something and

then you are down leveled why because

probably you know in your comfort zone

you actually got uh you know to climb up

the ladder and got promoted maybe maybe

that's the situation because you know

context so very well you go to another

company you probably will have to learn

quite a bit uh the point which I always

tell people is always focus on learning

don't focus on the levels of the

promotion of course there are a lot of

things tied to it uh you know money is

tied to it the autonomy is tied to it

you know and things like that leadership

is tight to it got it but at the same

time you want to make sure that you're

growing you're challenging yourself you

are making yourself throw yourself a bit

in the uncomfort zone and figure out

what can you learn from it because at

the staff level there's no mercy there's

a system design question let's say or a

or a programming question dynamic

programming very tough question there's

no mercy you you got to know this you

got to know this you got to have

behavioral I mean everything and there's

no mercy and I've been there and I feel

like at junior level they may say that

okay it was a good coder but he didn't

have this experience uh you know let her

learn uh it's fine we want to hire with

this situation of course no more mercy

so that that's uh something which I

would say keep learning keep figuring

out what can you learn how would you

grow yourself yeah because in totality

if you don't have people skills soft

skills communication skills hard you

know tough design problems tough

situation conflict all these things we

many times talk about that it is

relevant for as you grow senior staff

you know you may need those skills as

well sure back in the day we had Legacy

Industries where people were very loyal

they'd work 20e career at one company

then we got to like the 2015s 2020s

where it was like move every one year

two year three year start up to start up

to start up and now we're in this kind

of weird place where either because of

layoffs people are scared to move or

people just like are forced out what do

you think of the current market do you

think it's optimal to keep jumping do

you think you should stay like how do

you consider that in your own career our

industry goes through the cycles and

this is one of those low phase right and

I'm sure Market will be better um I'm

Optimist um so 2018 happened you know

and all these things will happen it's a

cycle so it'll get better but at the

same time what I would say is around

this time uh Market is really tough yeah

right we know that it'll be it'll get

better so so the point is I think this

is the time where you should stay put

okay right uh there's no point in just

going out if you have a job if you're

comfortable there stay there it's not

the time to really go out there it's

employer market so you probably will get

down leveled or uh salary will be low

and I don't know what all will happen if

you just go out there there's no point

in experimenting if you can stay put for

a year or so do that okay right and but

but just don't sit there you know just

make sure that you're always ready make

sure that you're always learning make

sure that when the time comes right if

you wanted to change if you really were

seeing some Gap and you had the intent

go out and change it doesn't have to be

today uh because the market is obviously

going through its tough phase right so

let it pass yeah um Switching gears a

little bit with the age of AI you know

we went from a time where every wanted

to study CS now people are like is there

even a point like is am I going to have

a job how has AI affected your job do

you use it on your team are you worried

about it yeah I I'm I'm worried but at

the same time I think it's all a phase

like you know when the calculators came

in there was a disruption right teachers

were worried about it things like that

anything comes suddenly there's always a

shock and that's what we are

experiencing through AI just came in

very suddenly sort of last year it

shocked us oh this I don't have to

really write put a lot of thought around

writing you can just put a tonality to

it and I get a this thing that thing you

know all these things are happening I

think people are still understanding the

power of AI application which is around

AI that's still happening we do use you

know of course in our dogs and a lot of

places emails we have been seeing that

you know there are a lot of places where

it is the embedded yeah it'll be part of

life that's how I see it but I think the

person who will win in this race or

person who will always have an Ed is a

person who thinks Basics will never go

away right if you are is going higher

and higher level there is a there is a

bigger challenge people just float in

the higher level of space where they

don't understand the very Basics yeah so

chat GPD or uh you know Gemini if you

use them you'll always be floating in a

very high level of thing and if that

doesn't work you don't know what to do

and it happened with me I just give you

very analogy a good analogy there people

don't know how to behave when there is

this thing is taken away from them that

should be the case understand why things

are behaving the way are behaving just

don't fly in a very upper layer where

you don't understand yeah so that's what

I would say those those are the people

who will always be needed yeah apart

from the communication skill apart from

the you know you have a problem can you

take that problem ambiguous problem

Define it properly scope it down

properly I think that is a skill which

will be valuable which which will be

more and more needed and then last

question so you know we figur out how to

get a job we battled AI we're actually

good with it now we we we got there

we're in big Tech or some startup and we

want to grow our career it's a marathon

not a Sprint and we want to keep getting

promoted and doing better what advice

would you have to an engineer who's

maybe just starting out in their career

how should they kind of look at this

timeline every company has very

different uh set of uh rubric metrics

you know how do they think about level

one level two and so on and so forth

typically what you would see is you need

to know your CS fundamentals very very

well I recently wrote A Blog also I

think that's a good reference we can

take a look I teach uh courses as well

on this career guidance but really if

you see if you go to the higher level

what you're doing is you are thinking

like uh so I'll give you a simple

analogy a developer software developer

what they do is they write code and

debug code a senior or a staff engineer

they write systems and debug systems a

manager wres team and debugs teams and a

director or a you know senior level

manager they write orgs and debug orgs

so to speak right so that's the thing

you want to be able to grow to the next

level thinking about it how are you uh

doing something which a junior engineer

cannot do you need to be able to

differentiate that's your growth you're

able to take ambiguous problems scope it

down very very clearly hand it over to

uh junior Engineers that they can imp

mented right you need to be able to play

your role if you're still doing the

junior Engineers job then you make

yourself redundant what's the point of

having 5 7 10 years of experience when

you can't use it leverage it and play a

higher role I think there are a lot of

details here uh which I'm skipping

obviously but uh but that's what you

need to remember what are you doing

which 5 years back you couldn't do mhm

what about these 5 years of experience

what can you infer from this and do to

the next level awesome thank you this

has been so great thanks for taking the

time yeah absolutely cool