Linda Raschke on Having an Edge in Trading and the Importance of Data
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful interview, Jason Shapiro speaks with trading legend Linda Bradford Rashki about the importance of having an edge in the trading market and the significance of data analysis. Linda shares wisdom from her book 'Trading Sardines', emphasizing the need for discipline, the learning curve of trading styles, and the balance between systematic approaches and experience. She also discusses the challenges faced by new traders and the value of understanding market nuances through trial and error. The conversation touches on the psychological aspects of trading, the impact of technology on market dynamics, and the concept of giving back and staying humble in the world of finance.
Takeaways
- 📚 Linda Rashke shares her wisdom in 'Trading Sardines', offering market insights and life advice.
- 🎯 Having an edge in trading is crucial, derived from a statistical advantage, experience, or unique opportunities.
- 🔄 Successful trading requires consistent application of one's edge, with a focus on the long-term and money management.
- 🔍 Developing a trading edge takes time, experimentation, and understanding of various market strategies.
- 📉 Market dynamics are ever-changing, making adaptability and continuous learning key to maintaining an edge.
- 🖥️ Technological advancements and data access have transformed trading, requiring new skills and approaches.
- 📈 Understanding market trends and sentiment is essential, but technical analysis remains a primary decision-making tool.
- 👩💼 Personal trading discipline and a well-defined process are vital for managing risk and capitalizing on opportunities.
- 📊 Record-keeping and statistical analysis play a crucial role in refining trading strategies and understanding market behaviors.
- 🤝 Giving back and maintaining humility are fundamental values that contribute to personal and professional growth.
Q & A
What does Linda Bradford Rashki believe is essential for successful trading over time?
-Linda Bradford Rashki believes that having an edge is essential for successful trading over time. This edge could come from various sources such as modeling, arbitrage opportunities, or experience. She emphasizes the importance of applying this edge consistently and managing risk through a robust money management strategy.
How does Linda describe her trading philosophy in her book 'Trading Sardines'?
-In her book 'Trading Sardines', Linda describes her trading philosophy as one that incorporates market wisdom, life wisdom, and personal stories from her experiences in trading and love. She emphasizes the importance of having an edge, managing risks, and applying a systematic approach to trading while also incorporating lessons from personal experiences.
What advice does Linda give to new traders regarding their trading style?
-Linda advises new traders to explore different trading styles to find what works for them. She compares it to trying on hats, suggesting that they might need to try various styles such as spreads, options, season programs, or Commitment of Traders reports before finding the right fit. She also emphasizes the importance of gaining experience and capital preservation during this exploration period.
How does Linda view the role of discipline in trading?
-Linda views discipline as the single most important aspect of trading. She believes that even with the greatest trading system, a lack of discipline can lead to failure. She stresses the importance of sticking to a proven process and not deviating from it due to emotions or short-term market fluctuations.
What is Linda's perspective on the use of technology and AI in trading?
-Linda acknowledges the role of technology and AI in trading but also points out their limitations. She notes that AI systems are only as good as the data they are trained on and that they may not be able to adapt to new market conditions as effectively as a seasoned trader with a keen understanding of market dynamics.
How does Linda approach the concept of 'edge' in trading?
-Linda views the concept of 'edge' as something that needs to be durable and robust, meaning it should hold up over time. She warns against strategies that may become less effective as more people discover and exploit them. She also notes that while some trading strategies may have a short half-life, others, like chart formations, can persist with lower frequency but still offer trading opportunities.
What is Linda's take on the importance of trial and error in developing a trading methodology?
-Linda believes that trial and error are crucial in developing a successful trading methodology. She compares this process to scientific discovery, where much of what we've learned has come through trial and error, and sometimes, serendipitous discoveries. She emphasizes that a combination of trial and error, pattern recognition, and understanding the limitations of various tools and methodologies is key to developing a lasting trading approach.
How does Linda address the psychological aspect of trading?
-Linda addresses the psychological aspect of trading by emphasizing the need to desensitize oneself to the emotions associated with trading and to develop a thick skin. She notes that until traders learn to manage their emotions effectively, they will be their own worst enemy in the markets. She also highlights the importance of understanding oneself and one's risk tolerance in the context of trading.
What is Linda's view on the role of experience in trading?
-Linda believes that experience plays a vital role in trading. She suggests that it can take a minimum of three to five years to learn the nuances of different trading styles and to gain the necessary experience to make informed decisions. She also mentions that experience helps in understanding market dynamics and in developing an edge that can be leveraged for successful trading.
How does Linda approach the concept of market skew and its relevance to trading?
-Linda views market skew, or the fat tails in market behavior, as a critical aspect of trading. She believes that understanding and recognizing these skews can offer significant trading opportunities. She argues that while backtesting can provide an initial idea of a strategy's effectiveness, it can miss the nuances of these skews, which are essential for identifying potential edges in the market.
What advice does Linda give about trading during market extremes?
-Linda advises traders to position themselves in the direction of the aberration when markets move beyond their historical boundaries. She believes there is a strong reason behind such market movements and that traders should go with the market's direction rather than against it when it comes to extreme market behavior.
Outlines
📌 Introduction and Discussion on Trading Edge
The paragraph introduces an interview with Linda Bradford Rashki, a renowned figure in trading and money management. Jason Shapiro begins by mentioning Linda's book, 'Trading Sardines', which he found insightful and enjoyable. The conversation quickly delves into the importance of having an edge in trading, emphasizing the necessity of a statistical advantage or a unique approach that can be applied consistently over time. Linda shares her experiences and stresses the significance of money management, experience, and the iterative process of learning from various trading styles, which can take several years.
🌐 Market Nuances and the Evolution of Trading
Linda discusses her early experiences trading on the floor of the Pacific Coast Stock Exchange, highlighting the differences between past and present market conditions. She talks about the Wild Frontier-like atmosphere of the equity options market in the absence of computers and the arbitrage opportunities that emerged. Linda also touches on the concept of a trading edge having a 'half-life', meaning its effectiveness can diminish over time as more people discover and exploit it. The conversation then shifts to the importance of developing a durable and robust trading methodology through trial and error, and the role of discipline in managing emotions and staying in the game.
📈 The Role of Market Skew and Fat Tails
In this segment, Linda elaborates on the concept of market skew and fat tails, explaining that these elements offer the potential for significant profit. She argues that while backtesting can provide a general idea of a trading strategy's effectiveness, it can also obscure the skew and fine nuances that are crucial for trading success. Linda also discusses the importance of recognizing and capitalizing on market relationships when they are out of line, as this can signal significant opportunities. She references her book 'Street Smarts' and emphasizes that while technical skills are valuable, they are not as critical as understanding market dynamics and having the right mindset for trading.
🛠️ Trading Discipline and Process
Linda and Jason discuss the critical nature of discipline in trading. Linda believes that discipline is the most important aspect of trading success, regardless of the trading system used. She shares her views on the importance of sticking to a process and the pitfalls of deviating from it. The conversation also touches on the challenges faced by traders who do not develop their own systems, as they lack the necessary confidence to adhere to them. Linda advocates for traders to have their own methods and to be patient in waiting for high-probability opportunities.
🌪️ Trading in the Direction of Aberration
Linda emphasizes the importance of trading in the direction of aberrations, or significant market movements beyond historical boundaries. She believes that such movements indicate a strong underlying reason and present a trading opportunity. Linda shares an example from her experience with seasonal patterns and how failed seasonals can often lead to larger trades in the opposite direction. The conversation highlights the importance of not being stubborn and recognizing when a trading strategy or seasonal pattern is no longer effective.
💡 Adapting to Market Changes and Personal Trading Experiences
Linda shares her personal journey in trading, from equity options to various other markets. She explains her preference for currency futures over Forex and her reasons for focusing primarily on the most liquid domestic futures markets. Linda also discusses the evolution of her trading approach over the years, including her transition from strategic trading to more reactive and adaptive styles. The conversation underscores the importance of continuous learning and adapting to changing market conditions.
📊 Measuring Market Sentiment and Capitalizing on Opportunities
Linda and Jason discuss the importance of gauging market sentiment and identifying excess cash on the sidelines. Linda explains that while she primarily relies on technical analysis, she also considers sentiment readings and data from money market funds as part of her holistic approach. The conversation also touches on the role of AI programs in incorporating sentiment data and the challenge of dealing with the sensory stimulation and information overload present in today's trading environment.
🌟 The Importance of Giving and Staying Humble
In the concluding segment, Linda reflects on the wisdom she has gained over her trading career, emphasizing the importance of giving and maintaining humility. She shares a powerful quote from her book, highlighting the idea that everything given will return tenfold. Linda discusses the value of gratitude, recognizing one's blessings, and the impact of a positive mindset on trading success and overall life satisfaction. The conversation ends with Linda sharing her website for her book and expressing her philosophy on life and trading.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Trading
💡Edge
💡Data
💡Money Management
💡Psychology
💡Discipline
💡Market Report
💡Book - Trading Sardines
💡Experience
💡Trial and Error
Highlights
Linda Bradford Rashki, a legend in trading and money management, shares insights on having an edge in trading and the importance of data.
Jason Shapiro interviews Linda Rashki about trading, money management, and the application of experience and data in making informed decisions in the market.
Linda emphasizes the necessity of having a statistical edge in trading, which can come from modeling, arbitrage opportunities, or experience.
The importance of money management algorithms is discussed as a critical component of successful trading.
Linda's book 'Trading Sardines' is recommended for its easy readability and sharing of market wisdom, life wisdom, and personal stories.
The concept of gaining experience in trading is likened to trying on different hats to find the right style that works for an individual.
Linda shares her journey from trading equity options on the Pacific coast Stock Exchange to developing a durable and robust trading methodology.
The idea of 'half-life' of trading systems is introduced, where strategies can lose effectiveness over time as more people discover and utilize them.
Linda discusses the importance of discipline in trading, stating it as the single most important aspect regardless of the trading style.
The conversation touches on the idea of trading in the direction of aberrations, capitalizing on market movements that go beyond historical boundaries.
Linda shares her perspective on the evolution of her trading approach over the years, from equity options to focusing on the most liquid domestic futures markets.
The interview highlights the importance of developing one's own trading system rather than relying on others', to build confidence and maintain discipline.
Linda and Jason discuss the psychological aspect of trading, acknowledging the emotional challenges and the need for mental fortitude in the markets.
The conversation emphasizes the value of record-keeping and statistics in tracking performance and making improvements in trading strategies.
Linda's advice for new traders includes starting with a short-term horizon, using simple indicators, and desensitizing oneself to the stress of trading.
The interview concludes with Linda's philosophy on life and trading, emphasizing the importance of giving, staying humble, and maintaining a positive mindset.
Transcripts
[Music]
welcome to CMR interviews by Jason
Shapiro in today's episode Jason
interviews Linda rashy on having an edge
in trading and the importance of data to
learn more about Jason and Linda check
the episode notes in the
description Hello today's March 26 2024
I'm Jason Shapiro with crowd andm
marketreport tocom today I have the
pleasure um of welcoming Linda Bradford
rashki who is a legend in the trading
and money management business um and we
are going to have a conversation about
trading and money management and and
anything else that uh falls into line
here um I will start by saying before I
did this interview uh Linda was nice
enough to mail me her book which is this
thing right here it's called trading
sardines and um I read it and it was
awesome because it was such an easy read
uh she shared a lot of market and
trading wisdom as well is a lot of Life
wisdom and some really fun stories about
love life and trading um and I would
recommend it to anybody so on that note
uh Linda welcome and thanks for joining
thank you for having me Jason it's a
real honor so I usually um start with
this very simple question um how do we
make money over time trading the market
let's just open up the whole can of
worms right off the bat how do we make
money you know that's what we want to
know right that's what we want know you
have to have some type of Edge that
would be obvious in any game that you
play be it Bridge or gambling or the
markets you need to have some type of
statistical Edge that may came from
modeling or it may come from an early
Arbitrage opportunity with the new
Emerging Markets it might come from
experience even experience is a form of
an edge but you do have to have some
sort of Edge and then you need to apply
that consistently so over time it's just
a big number game if I make 1,000 trades
and I have n Edge I will have a positive
expectation and the more trades you can
make with that type of thesis uh the
closer you come to a guaranteed profit
and of course you always need to have
that little money management algorithm
in the background um but I think that uh
you know you can either be very
systematic and have it hardcoded in your
brain or your uh system or um just
through experience you might know how to
manage the bottom line a little bit more
appropriately so you know I think that
the initial um problem is getting that
experience or when people first start
trading out uh it's like trying on hats
you know you have to try this style is
it going to work for you maybe you try
that for 3 months you know maybe we try
uh spreading maybe we try options maybe
we try season programs maybe we try
commitment of Traders reports you know
but you can't um you can't arrive and
start to learn the nuances of something
until you have explored many different
styles if you are new to the markets and
that whole process can take uh a minimum
of three to five years so just like
anything it's like playing um you know
poker and capital preservation until you
get that experience under your belt
excellent advice see mean I can't just
start trading today and start making
money right away and go for you know if
you bought those gamestock options a
couple years ago you never know huh did
you see that movie by the way oh I'm not
supposed to ask you questions it was fun
I did not see D money yeah I watched it
in
livetime yes yes which I thought was was
enough um but maybe was the movie good
maybe I should see it I don't know you
should for history's sake it wouldn't
make sense if you weren't to trade but
you know you'll get it I didn't see that
movie about the penny stocks with
Leonard DiCaprio for a lot of years
because uh I knew people when I was in
college that were in the penny stock
game and and the whole thing made me
sick Wolf of Wall Street yeah so I
refused to watch that movie for many
years and then once I did it was
actually yeah it was actually hilarious
so now I watch it all the time but um
sometimes I just don't want to watch
something that I I kind of lived in in
in lifetime anyway um okay so you need
to have an egg Edge and to develop an
edge is going to take you time um what
are the things we're looking for in that
edge and I'm not telling I don't need
you to tell me oh well the edges you
trade when the five day moving average
crosses the 25 day what do we need to
look for in that a perfect world okay
I'll start off with a perfect world and
then we'll deviate from there in a
perfect world you need something that's
durable and robust okay in other words
not
optimized um you know will hold up over
time and for example with my trading
career when I started off trading I was
in the floor and Equity options on the
Pacific coast Stock Exchange and it was
a little bit like the Wild Frontier we
did not have computers we didn't have
the uh you know the programs that keep
all the options in line so there was a
lot of lucrative opportunity for those
first couple years until it slowly got
armed out and everything got
computerized but um you know I've seen
that time and time again with um many
things in the markets it's uh you find
something and if you find it other
people can find it as well and
eventually has what we'll call a
halflife you know with a system uh a
halflife and it'll start to lose its
Effectiveness now that's not true with
everything for example you could take
chart formations a gorgeous weekly chart
formation which now has a lower
frequency of occurrence so everything's
a tradeoff on the flip side of that as
the mark have become more crowded with
different Market participants you have
an increase in the noise level which
means an increase in false breakouts and
so forth so you know everything's this
sort of balancing act and and tradeoff
But ultimately you do want a style I
will say an approach or a methodology
that will uh last over time and to
develop that style and that methodology
it seems like Char and error is really
the best way to go you know trial and
error goes a long ways that's with you
know look at uh medicine and
biochemistry and physics you know so
much of what we've learned through uh
Through the Ages has been trial and
error and then freak chance you stumble
across something like penicillin you
know so there is a little bit of that
but there's also more than that there's
uh some Savvy with pattern recognition
there's some Savvy as to what we can do
what we cannot do for example with
neural networks or artificial
intelligence which is so in Vogue right
now they're only as good as what we
train them on um you know and uh it's uh
you know some people have a better
temperament for risk-taking because
ultimately if you have not been in the
markets for a long period of time it
doesn't matter whether you have an edge
or not you're end You're Going to Be
Your Own Worst Enemy you know just with
your emot motions until you learn to
desensitize and get a very thick skin
and so forth so a lot of this game is
just being able to stay in the game as
with anything you know you're going to
go to college you're going to go to four
years medical school you're going to do
two to three years residency there is a
uh big time period there before you
start to get to that point where you can
make the big bucks and that's that's
just with more I'm saying that in the
light of of the retail type of the side
of the business because there is
opportunity for some uh quants that are
very sophisticated I know some friends
that are doing really interesting work
you know but it's it's um it's a
different science if you will so even
you know the most successful Fund in
history everybody likes to look at Jim
Simmons and his Medallion fund right
it's not that he's a Trader it's just
that he had the most amazing insane
infrastructure Network you know that
nobody else would be able to replicate
and what people don't understand with
his particular fond I don't know the
stats now I knew the stats 20 30 40
years ago because I had clients that had
uh monies with him his average holding
time was under 24 hours so it wasn't
like putting on big bets it's just that
they worked every Market in the world
you know milliseconds at times every
single edge that could be and uh you
know that is not um possible for
somebody like you or me you know it just
takes this insane amount of
infrastructure and Technics and you know
Engineers to keep everything going so
we're talking about a different type of
business here there's something I like
to say a lot to people which is you have
to trade you would you agree with and
you know what if you don't know who you
are the markets are a very expensive
place to find out I I have that written
down here I have about 10 quotes from
your book written down here and that's
one of them so you just covered one of
my quotes thank you um but you know
being that like a lot of people it's
funny I saw it on a u on a panel a few
months ago and we were talking about you
know back testing and and all this stuff
and somebody in the audience raised
their hand and said you know I don't
know how to program and I don't have
back testing software so you know I
can't do that
stuff and one of the guys I was on the
panel with um said so what you're
telling me is you want to make money
trading the markets you you just don't
want to do the work that's necessary to
make money in the markets which I
thought was a little harsh but was
absolutely true you know I don't know
how to program um but you know you get a
trade station and and you hire somebody
for $50 an hour quite frankly and and
you can get pretty far and if you
actually take a little time programming
something like trade station is very
simple it's all just a question how much
how much you want it I think you know
you know I um for the first uh really 10
years of my um career I did everything
by hand and I would print off charts and
I would go by hand and I would calculate
the variance for every single trade and
um I learned more by doing that and
seeing the times where it didn't work
and the problem with back testing it's
great for overall modeling and giving
you an initial idea and um but the
problem is is that uh you're lumping so
much data together you're missing the
skew and the problem is that I mean with
the markets you have to understand that
the skew is where the edge is in other
words those fat tails and so when you
lump say for example uh statistical
testing with a sample size of 500 it
wipes all that out and everything
cancels each other out and you'll miss
those fine little nuances and that's
really about what the market is about to
me is that there's that skew that's what
offers the fat opportunity here and it
takes a lot of time to recognize that
you know um because our
humanness um you know we want to buy
wholesale sell retail that type of stuff
uh and we're always looking for that
Arbitrage or that reversion to the mean
type of thing just subconsciously you
know if you see a car that's marked up
too high you're going to wait till it
comes down that type of thing but what
the markets do is they impart incredible
information to us when these
relationships get out of line and they
get out of line for a very definitive
reason and so it's hard for us to
understand as humans because we don't
see enough of that we don't have enough
sample size to really understand you
know what's going on but if you have a
banded type of um you know relationship
and something starts to push outside
that band okay there's a very strong
reason why and you generally want to go
with that and that's very difficult for
people to get their hands around that
you know just like you've learned Now by
watching the commitment of Traders
reports that just because it gets
extreme sometimes when it gets so
extreme uh
you actually want to be positioned in
the direction of that because there's
something crazy going on there and of
course eventually everything does a
little bit of a reaction in the opposite
direction but um you know so I wrote a
book many years ago and it was with
Larry Connor and the name of that book
was Street smarts and so uh there
definitely is a little bit of Street
smarts when it comes to the markets you
know it's not necessarily about having
that master's degree in Applied
Mathematics or you know something that
would allow you to have these uh
incredible programming skills which are
of value for certain hedge funds or uh
you know Quant shops that do that but
for the individual I don't think it's
necessary I really don't think you have
to do that I think what happens is that
especially with electronic trading it's
so easy just to click that Mouse and
it's very difficult for most people to
have the patience and be very
discriminating in waiting for the
opportunities where uh not to be cliche
because it did get to be a very cliche
word in the last couple years that
asymmetrical opportunity you know um you
know or that high win rate uh but the
the good opportunities just don't come
along as often as people might think
it's a fact and it and it speaks to it
speaks to discipline which to me is the
hardest thing in the world you can have
the greatest system in the world if
you're not disciplined over time even
the greatest system in the world is
going to have losing trades and get
things wrong and sometimes get things
very wrong and if you're not disciplined
you're doomed um that's what I believe I
think discipline is the single most
important thing in this game I don't
care how you trade and I think you'd
probably agree with that um I hate that
word I'm sorry well to me
you know what it is it's it's like um I
like I like phrasing it as having a
process because if you have a process
you're not putting yourself at the mercy
of being disciplined or undisciplined or
doing you st disciplined to that process
well there okay all right we're doing
semantics here but yeah process so that
um I see people all the time they they
have a process but then they don't stay
disciplined to it okay I'm going to get
in here I'm going to here the stop comes
it's like well I'm going to let it drive
for another day well you know what I
mean it's like they probably haven't
gone through that learning curve yet no
they will they still you know newer in
the game so why it's a it is definitely
a game of attrition because uh you know
you you can't have so many people
winning at this game I hate to say it
you know it's um not that every Market
is a zero some type of game that's not
true either but uh you are competing in
Arena with um major money that has
exceptional execution skills it's all
automated and they are going to beat you
to it you can't leave yourself at the
mercy of oh I'm going to get out if it
hits this point no put your stop in if
you get hit you can always get back in
you know so um yes fact um the first
things that I wrote down from your book
some of these quotes trade in the
direction of the aberration and you've
mentioned this a few times in the book
okay and I love it because trading the
direction of the aberration the market
is never too high to buy or too low to
sell when something moves Beyond its
historical boundaries there's a strong
reason why which is what you were just
saying a Trader should be positioned in
the direction of the aberration I
believe in this so much this is what
triggers pretty much every one of my
trades is when a market does something
that it's not supposed to do I go with
the market and not with what the
supposed to do thing is um and I think
that's an important point I don't know
if you want to expand on that you might
have done that a little bit already I'll
just give you one example that's sort of
a different dimension and I did a lot of
work with Steve Moore and Moore Research
Center back in uh in the early 90s and I
learned a lot about seasonals and the
statistics behind them and Steve's run
this stuff for like 30 plus 40 years
he's probably I think the best in the
business that does it more research
center but you can look at seasonal that
goes back say 20 years or just say 18
years and let's say it's seasonals are
very much like an Actuarial Table
there's a window it's not necessarily
timing sensitive on either end but
there's a window where you would see a
positive expectation and so we can say
okay you know the market rallied during
this month uh 15 out of the last 18
years which is not a high sample size so
that means that on a walk forward basis
even though it was 85% win rate in the
past going forward it might only be a
60% win rate but now do that across a
portfolio of 20 different markets and
names so it's all a numbers game but
here's what Steve taught me was that a
failed seasonal often ends up being an
even bigger trade than the actual
seasonal okay so there's a very strong
reason as to why that seasonal fails and
so you know we can't afford to get
stubborn these things and you do have to
have a cut off by which you can say this
system is no longer working this
seasonal is not catching this XYZ may
you know uh be the case so that would be
an example there just having a failed
seasonal could be a bigger win in in the
opposite direction yeah I like
it um something really you know things
don't work all the time and again A lot
of times when they don't work it's an
even better signal it's going to work
the other way there you go there's
always a reason so stop being stubborn
it appears to me from your book that and
you talked about this earlier about
things give you an opportunity and they
get arbed out tell me if I'm wrong but
it appears you have traded very many
different things over over the years
maybe you you you you used to do this
and that worked for a while and then it
stopped working because maybe it got
arbed out so you you contined to do
research you found this you started
doing this and that worked for a while
and then it stopped working and you did
research and you moved on to this is
that correct yes and no I started off in
the equity options which was very much a
strategic type of game it's not like
you're in the Futures pits with the snps
and everybody going totally you know
crazy all day long although we did have
green mail and blackmail and some
craziness in the pits you know back in
the 80s um but yes the edge and the
options did get arbed out so everything
was pretty much right in line um I don't
trade crypto I don't trade Forex I mean
I trade the the currency Futures I love
the currency Futures but there's really
no Advantage for me to trade Forex
versus the currency Futures I would much
rather trade the currency Futures where
I can buy on bid sell on offer that type
of thing and and use them on my uh
execution platform with the same uh
trade management tools or so forth that
I do with everything else I don't have
to have several separate accounts so um
I have traded stocks on and off you know
for like 30 40 years and I'll be
brutally honest it's like uh I find that
I get more banged for my buck in the
Futures because of the leverage and the
um it's so much easier to move size
going in and out you know with the snps
you know one Mouse click you can do a
couple hundred and with stocks you can't
really do that it's a different type of
uh execution feel to it and it's a
little bit more Capital intensive it at
least for the way that I trade so I
pretty much stick to Futures and I've
traded um urx the jgbs the Italian bonds
I mean I've traded Futures all over the
world but now um you know I pretty much
just stick to the most liquid domestic
Futures markets and trust me that's
enough to get into trouble it certainly
is um again I'm going to quote some your
book these are more my f some of my
favorite ones it's hard to muster the
necessary confidence in a system unless
you develop it yourself and this is
something that has come to my attention
since I've started this Discord page and
newsletter type thing because I find we
started this thing with the idea of
helping people to understand the bigger
picture of what it takes to be
successful in trading not to copy trade
Jason shapira okay um and I do put my
trades on there because I want people to
see what I'm doing and therefore the
discipline that I'm using and my stop
losses and my risk management so that
they can see that that is the more
important thing but what I find is a lot
of people copy the traits and I beg them
not to for this very reason that you
mention in the book if you didn't
develop this yourself you're not going
to have the confidence in it I I've been
trading what the way that I've been
trading for over 20 years I go through a
losing period I know that that's part of
it I have all my statistics you know so
I don't say oh those last three trades
stunk I'm not going to take the next one
you know I know how important it is for
me to take the next one because the next
one may very well be the big one right
um so yeah did you want to expand on
that a little bit the fact that you
really need to develop your own thing
and not you know well sure everybody has
different temperaments and uh some
people are more nervous and need a
little bit more uh you know some people
can take heat like I can take a
ridiculous amount of heat you know but
that might not be the case with
everybody and it might not be a good
thing either you know I'm also uh very
uh pro- risk I I take a lot of risk and
it doesn't bother me you know I and it
gets me into it's gotten me into trouble
in the past I'm very much uh leap and
then look you know and assess uh but the
opportunity comes I want to get it on
and then I can evaluate sometimes um I
will say that even though I do so much
crazy modeling and I always have and
I've always hired people that have been
full-time for my hedge fund that did all
the number grinding for me um my real
for is that I'm just an exceptional tape
reader and that probably came from my
years of standing on the floor when we
didn't have charts I didn't have
computers I didn't have software you
know where I could see these things but
there's a certain way that a market will
trade when there's an increase in
interest and an increase in volume and
an activity and I don't need to plot the
volume on um you know on the chart I'm
usually looking at the uh my quote board
you know so I'm trading off of the
little net change is pretty much what I
watch but I do it across a basket so
it's a very holistic type of dynamic
markets to me I mean I watch the stocks
I watch the currencies the metals the
crude all these types of things but I'm
kind of watching The Net change and I
can see when something's going plus or
minus and I've usually done my uh
homework the night before that says okay
this if this dips below the previous
days low and starts to come back up I'm
going to get long um but I use a lot of
discretion on entries I'll use a little
bit more systematic approach on exits
and I've pretty much categorized you
know my approach to exit for small
Target which is if you're scalping or
day trading on the snps 80% of the time
you want to just play for a small Target
because they're very noisy markets so if
a market is going through a
consolidation period or Market profile
terms would say bracketing Market you
want to play for a smaller Target pretty
much you know a mean reversion type of
thing if it's um you know just starting
to get some legs then you can reach for
a larger Target and then there are you
know about six to seven structured
categories that I have where I would
Trail a stop and that is maybe 30% of
the time are there cases where you can
go into the marketplace place and Trail
a stop and do better than playing for a
small Target or a large Target I tend
not to scale out so I'm pretty much all
in all out that's just what works for me
I find that people when they scale out
often it's more to satisfy that
psychological need but it does alter the
numbers so as if you want to do that for
yourself that's fine but just recognize
that that's why you're doing it to
scratch that little mental itch that you
might have um so you know I like to do a
little bit of everything uh you know if
I'm day trading the snps I might only
make one or two trades a day and then
I'll be looking for my you know
positions that I can put in one day out
the next day or hold for two or three
days and then those opportunities where
we can hold a trade for say two weeks
you know without really taking much heat
uh maybe you get seven of those per year
per Market you know so it's identifying
the pre-existing conditions and then
understanding that I might only capture
if I have 120 trades I might only
capture 60 of the 60% of those trades
you see it's uh and then if you have a
system that says you should make n%
you're doing great if you capture 80% of
that you know because it's pretty hard
to um you know for numerous reasons
psychological execution software
Hardware time of day all all kinds of
things why people will 99% of the time
underperform a quote system unless it is
100% automated and systematic and even
then you've got can of worms for a
smaller individual that doesn't have
that sophisticated uh reconciliation
going on in the background and so for
it's a whole different business though I
think it's an interesting comment if
that's what you're doing you were
talking about the scaling out thing
that's fine just recognize why you're
doing it um and I love that because
that's how I feel about all of this I I
think this whole game is a battle
against yourself um and recognizing why
you're doing things to me is the most
important thing you can do right finding
and being honest about your own biases
so that you can
overcome them you know is to me the most
important thing that you can do and what
people have the most trouble doing not
just in trading but in life I mean I see
it all the time with almost everybody I
talk to these biases that they can't get
over be it and I don't want to get into
it but be it political be it religious
be it whatever you know the bias is just
overtake any kind of ability to think in
an open-minded way and and that's fine
in life if that's what you want to do
you're not hurting anybody necessarily
but in trading you know um you're going
to lose money so you know to me that
that that's the most important thing to
me I don't know how you feel but and it
goes back to the whole discipline
argument as well but to me it's
psychological discipline you know what I
would do would be anybody that you know
maybe's been in the game for less than
10 years maybe you know a little bit
more than three years but they want to
uh step up their game um pretend that
you are going to manage money and you
know this Jason because you had to do
this as a CTA you prepare a a document
and in that document it states markets
that you trade your trading style
perhaps some general statistics as to
average holding time average drw down
these types of metrics and um then trade
that as if you are your own best client
trade it as if I'm going to take one
unit one unit might be one contract it
might be five contracts depending on
your account size it might be uh 10
contracts in corn and two contracts in
the NASDAQ I adjust everything by a
dollar range so that it's uh even you
know fairly even risk there and uh say
I'm going to do a six-month period here
of my Approach and style so that I can
see the numbers and then go raise money
on that okay okay maybe you have no
intention of doing that and truly to
become a CTA or a hedge fund or
something is so insane with the
regulatory burden and the counting and
the auditing and everything else that
most people don't want to go down that
road but if you did an exercise saying
uh you know I'm going to demonstrate my
style and I'm going to do it and keep
these statistics you know and if you
really want to put the heat on yourself
show your statements every day to a
friend or a colleague or a spouse or
something like that so you are fully
accountable and I think that that
accountability problem is really uh what
can solve a lot of people's you know um
ruts that they get themselves into if
they had to be accountable to somebody
in some way because you know face it you
can hide your statements nobody sees it
except you and you can lie about it to
people too it make you oh yeah oh yeah
but if you had be accountable it might
be a whole different game changer you
know you might be more apt to exit a
losing position at the end of the day if
you want to reestablish it the next day
you can but at lean you're not carrying
this crap on your sheets overnight
that's going to get you off to a bad
foot the next day of trading so there's
all kinds of Creative Solutions that you
can do and uh I am not a coach and I'm
but I'm sure there are coaches out there
that could you know help out in that
area uh but you know it's you will find
a way if you want Mr Bill who was your
trade your trainer yes recordkeeping is
a critical part of building a good
foundation and he wasn't even talking
about trading um monitoring your
statistics is also a tool that can help
you stay focused and gain control over
areas that are prone to distractions it
is vital for tracking performance which
is exactly what you were just saying and
I think that he was about your physical
training but and how to be successful in
that and what I have come to the
conclusion of over the years is that
success in any in Denver um is a Formula
whether it be success in bodybuilding
success in trading success in
relationships I is a formula and part of
that formula is to keep records and to
keep statistics and to keep honest
unbiased notes on this stuff because
that helps you an immense amount it
helped me an immense amount when I
finally came to the conclusion after 10
years that whatever the hell I was doing
it was not getting me anywhere with this
and I had to make a decision of what I
wanted to do with my life and I decided
I wanted to go on trading I was lucky
that I had been keeping statistics and
trades for you know a good seven eight
years and I was able to go back through
that and really see what was working and
what wasn't working you know and we have
this this multi- learning thing I read
in one book the guy called it where
we'll remember the trade that did great
but we'll forget the 50 times we put
that same type of trade on and it didn't
work right whereas if you're keeping the
records of all that you can go back and
look and see hey I remember that that
worked great once but it doesn't work
great over time um I think that's such
an important thing for people and and Mr
Bill was saying that that was important
for you and nothing to do with trading
so just on that subject um this was an
interesting quote cuz I love it you were
talking about something I think the
stock market there was excess cash on
the sidelines the number one variable in
my book that drives Trends and I live
that world okay I I live in the world my
trading is all about trying to see where
possible money flows are going to come
from right if I'm looking at the coot
stuff and I'm looking to short something
that people are very long it's because
I'm hoping that I'm getting in front of
the money flows coming out if I'm
looking to buy something and people are
very short obviously I'm looking to get
in front of the money flows that coming
in how do you measure because you say
the number one variable in my book that
drives Trend so how do you measure this
idea of cash on the sidelines excess
cash on the sidelines if you do or is it
just a feel thing or um it is a big feel
thing for me now because I've integrated
so much like holistically over all the
years but I would say that first of all
you can look at sentiment readings I
think are huge okay they're very
important because if you have too much
bearishness that's people that are
sitting in cash if you have too much
bullishness they're speaking their
position so there's a you you a modicum
of that going on you can also look at
like fred is a site that has all kinds
of Statistics in terms of um you know
the data that's in Money Market funds
and so forth I mean many many years ago
there was a service called trim tabs
that would you know tell you the flows
going in and out um so I'm pretty much a
pure technical an analyst you know
technici I really don't look at news or
events or macro at all I do believe that
you know it'll show up in the charts and
the sentiment and some of these other uh
things um but uh yeah you know and
there's something to be said for as
Ralph Aur put it the broader the base
the higher into space the broader the
top the bigger the drop you know so
these adages you know about accumulation
and distribution period still play out
um uh you know we never know for sure
because if you did somehow it would be
priced in and there are lots of AI
programs out there that incorporate
these sentiment readings and so forth
and you know people have put these into
their models you know I'm sure Rayo has
models that include these types of
metrics so uh you know I don't try to I
I consider those to be secondary
variables okay so for me secondary
factors are sentiment seasonals
commitment of R trade TR reports they're
like a a they color the market for me
you know leadership in the markets you
know group sectors those are all
secondary factors I'm not going to make
a trading decision based off of those
I'm going to make it purely off of the
technicals in the market structure and
then I just have to be confident that um
you know for every 10 trades that I make
2% might be big wins you know or I might
catch a runner it's just a really a pure
numbers game as would be any game of
cards you know you just keep playing
keep playing and uh you know sometimes
the the data is choppy and noisy and
there's no volume there's not much going
on and that's the way too with cards you
know sometimes the cards are just like
crummy Bridge hands or something but
then there's other times where the I
think the biggest factor is is that you
have to recognize when you are dealt a
good hand you know and play that to the
hilt and that's
you know cards baseball markets anything
it's really about capitalizing on those
very few open doors that uh you know
come across our way and then that's
where you really have to step on the gas
and increase your leverage and play it
to the health but you can't force that
and so I find for me um I'm not trading
full-time like I once was I don't trade
by any chance on The Leverage that I
once did you know I've kind of toned
things down a lot um but
um that was probably my greatest
strength was knowing that I got it right
and to really go for it and play that
and uh so in the meantime you have to
keep yourself involved in a uh fairly
structured routine ritual process a lot
of grunt work you know I logged numbers
at the end of the day logged I didn't
keep the statistics on my trades in in
much later years you know that was more
for the beginning and kind of things but
you know you know damn well when you're
screwing up you know when you're doing
something you shouldn't do I don't need
to log the trade to you to tell me that
I you know I know when I've got a bias
you know and I recognize it but it's
just like keeping yourself I hate to say
it for me I was the markets were there
like every tick in my head every second
of the day you know I just eat sleep
breathe them and um you know it it's
like it's in your blood and uh it's it's
not that way right now but I mean I've
got enough
residual that uh you know that helps I
kind of diverged from our question there
but I mean that the baseball term I use
all the time is wait for the fat pitch
there you go wait for that fat pitch and
you know I now and I've done a lot of
different trading in my life but I now
only wait for the fat pitch and
sometimes I'm waiting a very long time
and it can be very difficult but um
again process is process discipline is
discipline and I'll wait forever for the
fat pitch if I have to because I hate
you know I wait for the fetch pitch and
sometimes I swing and I miss anyway okay
but um I'm okay with that what I'm not
okay I can't hit a curveball so when I
swing and Miss at a curveball I hate it
I just can't I can't deal with it
personally so when you first started
trading Jason did they have electronic
execution the way they do now or did you
have to call down to the floor to your
broker had to
call so I do think that I was trading
before the internet so yes okay so I do
think that you me Peter brand all of us
had a different experience than somebody
coming into the marketplace in the last
15 years and I do feel strongly that um
the little mouse you know and our
little uh which does release dopamine in
the brain um it is addicting it is very
addicting and it changes your uh you
know your brain neurology there it it
definitely does and so um that I think
is a big problem for people because it's
so easy just to go in and out during the
day and it's counterproductive into the
way that you're programming your brain
and I don't know what the answer is how
to get away from that un unless you had
a colleague sitting next to you and
you're like okay is this it yes is this
it you know maybe trying to work through
it that way um I don't know what the
answer is but I do think it's been um a
challenge for people coming into the
markets you know with this sensory
stimulation and even you know my screens
you know the amount of data now is
coming into them is probably 50 times
greater than was you know 30 years ago I
remember had a big giant satellite dish
in my backyard at one point you know and
uh that that out got outdated you know
25 years ago so um I think just being
aware of these things and once again
it's a game where you know that it's uh
maybe 4% of the people will really make
it don't overtrade is a very old trading
adage but as you say a very difficult
one more difficult now because of the
ability to just click a mouse and have
fun um my answer for that is not the
only way but the most likely way that
people are going to get over that is
they're going to lose enough money doing
it and eventually they're going to get
sick of losing money hopefully and
they're going to stop doing it okay I
think that's the only way to do it you
know I mean that's the one thing about
this game that personally I love is that
are you saying it's Darwinism
Jason yes you know I'm I'm saying you
know we all know things that have
happened in life where people have
gotten lucky and made bad decisions and
gotten lucky anyway or whatever and and
in this game any individual trade sure
but over time you're not going to get
lucky and make money in this game over
time as you very well know um and so
that's what we have to start off with
something you know that's what you and I
uh you know have to acknowledge that
somebody that's just coming into the
markets in the last two to three years
you have to start off somewhere you know
you have to start off with a little
gimmick a little indicator perhaps um a
longer term time Horizon is not
appropriate if you don't have that
experience under your belt then what's
more appropriate is desensitizing
yourself to putting on a trade taking it
off and because a lot of times you know
putting on that trade when you've got
some money on the line there's a little
Adrenaline Rush there for people that
haven't desensitized themselves right
it's like jumping off a high dive you
know my heart would be pounding out of
my chest but if I've jumped off that
high dive a hundred times it's not such
a big deal but you know it's okay to
start off with a little gimmick a little
indicator take the pressure off of
yourself to make money keep a very
short-term Horizon because it is not
about calling the markets or a macro
perspective or being right or wrong you
know it's finding one little spot where
you can pick up a dollar bill off that
sidewalk and you have to then take that
from there and uh you know the other
thing is you've got all these I don't
know Twitter and chat rooms and I I
don't want to you know Discord can be
fine if you have a good group of people
that provide the camaraderie which is
important you know comaraderie uh can be
very important but um everybody has to
learn to throttle that noise level down
to a level that's not going to be a
distraction for them or influence their
decision making process which is very
difficult I'm the first that's I'll
never have a TV in my officer listen to
the news because I know myself you know
it's it's going to influence me one way
or another I'll be like ah damned if I
do damned if I don't he already put that
out there on you know on the air wve so
um yeah so just be careful of that noise
level eliminate the distractions it's
okay to start off with a little gimmicky
trade that's you know oh wow five
minutes I'm in the trade I did a little
breakout of that first 15 minute range
in the snps and I CAU two handles hey
Pat yourself on the back you know sit
back for a little bit and uh you know
take the pressure off of yourself to try
to do so much so soon patience is a
virtue understand there's a learning
curve yes um I have two more things I
want to say um because I don't want to
keep you for too long um but in the
midst of all this some of these things
that we've talked about right in terms
of what I was saying about too much
money on the sideline and that's what
pushes the trends and feel free to tell
me I have no idea if you'd like but
where are we now I have no idea where
are we now right now in the markets with
that where are we in the stock market
right now well there's still a lot of
money out there in in the money market
funds I mean we got up to historical
levels on that money market funds you
know the monetary base on a Global
Supply expanded by like 25% on a global
basis you know so it's hard to say how
all that filters down and there's really
two classes out there you know on one
hand you have your uh middle class and
your lower class who's got you know
fairly maxed out on their credit cards
and inflation took a hefty dent in that
but on the other hand you know the
wealthy have gotten so wealthy and
there's a lot of money sitting there in
Money Market funds and that is
increasing because if I can sit there
with my money in a fund getting 5% you
know out of treasuries or something I'm
just only adding to that you know if you
want to think about it that way there's
just increasing more and more money out
there even though we know that
eventually the government will be um you
know eating into the you know it's
always the private sector versus the
public sector so they might be uh you
know attributable to a greater
percentage of the GMP than perhaps in
the past but um there's still a lot of
money out there I not sure that
valuations you know have reached
extremes that we've seen in the past and
you know I'm not a macro person but I
just gonna say this is incredi I was
just gonna say it's an incredibly macro
talk for an intraday techn know I can't
help it you're still there you know but
I'll look at the charts and you can say
that the weeklys are you know a little
rich in term terms of the uh Trend but
you know even so once we stop going up
okay which could be you know maybe we've
stopped going up typically you rotate
and you form a prolonged trading range
okay to digest everything so it's pretty
rare that market tops are straight up
straight down it's much more likely that
you'll have a market bottom that unfolds
that way you know so that to me says
that we we should have great trading
opportunity you know don't go out there
and mortgage the house to buy puts it's
not like that type of environment right
now um I still think my opinion is that
the vix is still a little high I don't
don't get me for that but you know I've
Just Seen every 10 years that vix goes
down to single digits so it is a
possibility that it will go down to
single digits again you know which means
that the implied volatility is based off
of the historical volatility and so so
typically at marks the historical Vol at
tops historical volatility tends to
contract and I don't know if we have
quite seen that contraction to the
extreme in the historical volatility it
is coming in you know you can look at
bottoms and see it was so much greater
and at Market bottoms you'll see oh uh
things like Market breadth plus 1800 -
1800 plus 1800 minus 1800 and at Market
tops you'll start to see oh Market
breadth plus 300 minus 200 plus 500 this
type of uh and that's why they always
say it's complacency it's not that it's
complacency it's just that um that's the
nature of the price Behavior once it
starts to reach that you know point
where uh all the funds have bought the
AI stocks and you're starting to see
some rotation right some rotation doubt
um yeah but that could still be a
process you know if we look at election
years uh
typically and you know again keep in
mind the sample size is small here you
know but election years tend to hold
together you know so they do you know
but it doesn't mean that we can't have
some like lovely little sell-offs along
the way as well I call them long
liquidation flushes and um my Approach
is pretty much one day at a time you
know I look at my my stuff and I say
well does this look like it's a great
sell short day is it is there a little
breakout coil here going on you know is
this a do we just have a long
liquidation flush and it's a buying
opportunity and then I don't fry my
brain because I'll fry my brain if I try
and look out too far in the future I
think the idea of how Market's top and
Market's bottom is is really really
valuable because I have been harping for
a while here on people that just keep
wanting to short the stock market
um and I'm like listen you're not going
to miss anything okay like you're trying
to short when a market closes on new
all-time highs you know don't do it you
know I mean it's not going to close in
an all-time high and you're going to
wake up tomorrow and the S&P are going
to be down 300 and you missed it I've
never seen that happen every crash I've
ever seen you traded through the 87
crash the 87 crash the market topped in
what August and it crashed in October
you have time right and I think that's
an interesting comment about how workk
at tops because while I have never done
the Quant work that you have I have
noticed that as well they Spike bottom
they don't Spike top um they I follow a
lot of the uh Global indices too again
just purely on a technical basis I'm not
going to ask how or why but you can't
have markets like the Dax which is still
one time framing meaning consecutive
higher highs and higher lows on a daily
bar chart uh you know you're not going
to have a selloff in the US market as
long as you have some of these other
indices just going uh crazy you know
Japan's been nice I mean the uh you know
Mexico's been nice there's all sectors
in the rest of the world where even when
they stop going up even when that Dax
stops going up it's going to rotate it's
going to form a trading range and
probably that will um parallel you know
price action in the US markets yeah I
mean my issue all of the markets here is
that I think there's been a switch
personally you know what I mean last
year people were so massively bearish
you know looking for the recession and
you know I'm I trade this sort of fade
the mass psychology whereas now that's
totally gone nobody can call for
recession anymore um and people are
bullish uh I don't think that they have
put all their money to work so I don't
think it's a short but for me and I
trade on a different time frame than you
you know I'm picking sort of major turns
and trying to catch major Trends very
early um I am not into being long here
I'm also not into being short here you
know that that's just me but neither
here nor there there's one last thing
that I want to say that I read in your
book that personally it had so many your
book had so many great nuggets of wisdom
um and I thought this was the best one
and you put it right at the end which I
thought was op propo because I think it
is the most important thing and and and
this is something that I have learned
I'm now 56 this is not something that I
ever would have understood when I was 30
years old okay when I was 30 years old
my man was I want to be a billionaire
come Heller high water that's what I'm
going for okay me I'm going for me right
um but what you said here is give and
everything you give will come back to
you in tenfold stay humble but remain
confident and never forget if you don't
know who you are the markets are an
expensive place to find out I think
that's such a great conclusion to all
this because it says nothing about
markets well the last part does but give
and everything you give will come back
to you tenfold um this is something I
never would have believed or
understood um until I had some
experiences with some people in my life
who imparted that upon me and I still
didn't believe it but as I've gotten
older now I have come to understand that
and I think if anybody takes anything
away from any of this that that's the
most no one's going to believe it and
most young people aren't going to
believe it but I have learned especially
in the last five years or 10 years of my
life um the more you give the more you
get so I didn't know if you wanted to
come comment on that but I just think
it's such an important know it's just uh
all that mindset of gratitude and uh
recognizing how lucky and fortunate and
blessed we are to live in the uh United
States where we do and um you know how
you choose to look at things my mom was
always one that's like okay you can look
at it as half full or half empty you
know make lemons out of lemonade all
that type of stuff and so um I think
think by uh taking the rosy side of the
equation looking at uh positive our
blessings and so forth that opens up
your mind you know to receive and uh you
know whereas if you have um you know if
you can't let go of things and you've
got some negative energy and so forth
you'll have a block and it's just not
going to flow the same way I think that
you won't be as happy of a person and
you know sometimes the happiest people
out there really have very simple lives
and in the long run that's what it kind
of comes down to you know uh what we
choose to fill our life with I mean it
might just be you know gardening or
cooking or something simple or our
children or a friend um but it allows
you to then proceed with your work in a
more seamless type of mode you know
without getting stuck in rucks and
blockages and why did I do that I can't
you know I and I did that when I was
younger I mean I'd wake up in the middle
of the night and going oh my God I can't
believe I did that and why I tap my
husband at the time on his shoulder I'm
like I'm so stupid why did I do that you
know and I'm like how much negative
energy did I waste and I really think
that's why I got sick for a period there
as well you know so we want to keep
ourselves functioning functioning
optimally first phys physically you know
Good Health Nutrition and so forth uh
you know mentally spiritually whatever
that may mean to you and then I think
that you will be able to perform your
best in the markets because it is a
performance oriented discipline period
it's just like going out and playing
tennis or any other performance oriented
discipline and you can't be performing
well when you have you know negative you
know cancerous energy inside of yourself
so that's my philosophy I love it I love
it words from a successful person um to
be listened to thank you so much Linda
it's been uh an absolute pleasure you
are an absolute gem um please read her
book please listen to the things that
she says um about trading and about life
and I don't know is there a place people
can can that you want to be found or
anything like that or do you not want to
be found hi Rock Jason I never want to
be found again I don't know if you have
a web page I do have a website it's
gotten greatly paired down because it
was under so many cyber attacks I
probably need to redo it uh you know but
that's the only place that you can buy
my book which only has I don't know
maybe 200 or 300 copies left and then I
really need to uh I just you know hate
dealing with this stuff I need to either
sell the rights off to a publisher get
stick it on Amazon or something like
that I'm probably the only person that
didn't stick the book on Amazon cuz I'm
like they can't have 40% of my profits I
did all the work on that damn thing you
know and you know it was kind of cool so
it was fun because um and I do have an
assistant who helps out with all this
stuff because I just would not have the
patience to deal with self-publishing
but what was super cool was that 60% of
the people that purchased my book were
overseas and I subsidized the shipping I
pay for half that shipping because it's
expensive to ship books overseas but I
just felt very strongly that I wanted to
produce a really pretty book with the
highest quality paper and the old
traditional jackets and I was willing to
pay the shipping for somebody you know
to get it in Australia and uh I don't
have many copies left but um I thought
that was interesting that 60% of the
sales were overseas because people are
so conditioned to using Amazon they just
want to go with that one click Boop you
know and uh I don't know we'll see what
happens in the future thought it'd be
really fun to do an audible version I
just you know God if we had 50 hours in
every day it's one of those things so
yeah I mean I thought the world was
going to end today because some Bri that
that thing hit that bridge in Baltimore
and the Amazon warehouses right there
and they were saying it might delay
Amazon deliveries I was like oh my God
the world's going to end everyone's
gonna have to wait an extra 48 hours for
their Amazon delivery I was shocked I
Wasing and I heard uh the uh amount of
millions of dollars of trade that passed
through that Port I did not realize that
so many cars were delivered into that
Port from Europe so kind of interesting
yeah I mean well get your Volkswagen now
step right up grab it off the lot yeah
right awesome thank you so much Linda I
hope we keep in touch again um you're a
special person and I really appreciate
your time thank you for having me on
your show Jason and just the best of
success to you and let me know next time
you need some warm weather and come down
to Florida
okay sit here every day and I I was
actually looking at Florida today I'm
looking at those bare trees in the
background behind your image I'm like oh
that's
Bleak know it's Bleak it's Bleak up here
in Rhode Island but you know we love it
you like it in the summertime yeah no I
like it all the time my wife's here I
like it here that's what she's my life
so that's what counts that sounds good
all right best team
thanks subscribe to the crowded market
report YouTube channel for more CMR
interviews and other content from
[Music]
Jason
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