Dr Gabor Mate and Daniel Mate on genocide in Gaza | The Stream
Summary
TLDRIn this episode of The Stream, Anelise Boures discusses the psychological toll of witnessing ongoing violence, focusing on the conflict in Gaza. Joined by Holocaust survivor Dr. Gabor Maté and his son, composer Daniel Maté, they reflect on the horrors of the war, the trauma inflicted on Palestinians, and how Jewish values can inform opposition to oppression. The conversation also touches on the conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, the weaponization of trauma, and what it would take to achieve peace and justice for Palestine.
Takeaways
- 🧠 The human brain, despite its immense capability, struggles to fully comprehend the scale and constant nature of modern violence, particularly that seen in conflicts like Gaza.
- 🇵🇸 Dr. Gabor Mate emphasizes the importance of supporting Palestinian rights as part of a broader commitment to human rights and justice for all, not as a matter of taking sides.
- 😢 Daniel Mate reflects on the horror and emotional toll of witnessing the ongoing violence in Gaza, discussing the profound sadness, anger, and grief caused by the situation.
- ⚖️ Dr. Gabor Mate argues that trauma from events like the Holocaust should not be used to justify further violence or the trauma inflicted on other groups, such as Palestinians.
- 🧬 Daniel Mate discusses the complex legacy of trauma and moral principles passed down through his family, and how these shaped his anti-Zionist views and skepticism toward mainstream Jewish narratives about Israel.
- 🛑 Both Dr. Mate and Daniel highlight the dangerous conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, stating that criticism of Israel should not be equated with an attack on all Jews.
- 👶 Dr. Mate expresses deep concern over the long-term psychological and physical trauma faced by Palestinian children due to the ongoing violence, drawing on past studies that already showed alarming levels of trauma.
- 🕊️ Daniel discusses how his Jewish values, including compassion (Rahim), irony, and justice (Tzedek), inform his activism against oppression and the Israeli occupation.
- 🏚️ Dr. Mate describes his emotional experience visiting Gaza and the West Bank, witnessing firsthand the suffering of Palestinians, and how this shaped his views on the Zionist project and its impact.
- ✊ Both guests stress the need for systemic changes, including ending the occupation and apartheid policies, for peace to be possible and for collective healing to begin, not only for Palestinians but for Israelis as well.
Q & A
What is the main focus of the discussion in the episode of *The Stream*?
-The main focus of the episode is addressing the violence in Gaza and the occupied territories, particularly the impact on humanity, the role of solidarity, and the importance of supporting Palestinian rights.
Why does Dr. Gabor Maté believe it is important to support Palestinian rights?
-Dr. Gabor Maté believes it is important to support Palestinian rights because it is not about taking sides, but about caring for justice, truth, and the well-being of all people, including Jews. He argues that the situation in Palestine represents a focal point for what is troubling humanity.
How does Daniel Maté explain his decision to speak out on the issue?
-Daniel Maté explains that speaking out is essential for his sanity, as witnessing the horrors in Gaza is deeply troubling. He mentions that unless someone is captured by an ideology that blinds them to Palestinian suffering, it is hard not to feel horror, anger, grief, and frustration.
How does Dr. Gabor Maté reconcile his Jewish heritage and trauma with his stance on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
-Dr. Gabor Maté acknowledges his traumatic history as a Holocaust survivor but rejects using past Jewish trauma to justify the suffering of others, including Palestinians. He believes trauma does not justify further harm and argues that healing does not come from causing pain to others.
Did Daniel Maté inherit trauma from his father’s experiences, and how did it influence his views?
-Daniel Maté acknowledges inheriting trauma and a strong moral principle from his family’s history. He also credits growing up with a father who opposed occupation, helping him develop a nuanced view that goes beyond the Zionist narrative and led him to support Palestinian rights.
What is Daniel Maté’s view on the conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism?
-Daniel Maté rejects the conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, explaining that it stems from equating Zionism with Judaism. He argues that criticizing Israel’s policies does not equate to attacking Jews and emphasizes that this conflation is an anti-Semitic premise in itself.
What impact does Dr. Gabor Maté believe the current violence will have on Palestinian children?
-Dr. Gabor Maté predicts that Palestinian children will face devastating long-term effects from the trauma, including mental health issues, physical harm, and behavioral problems. He notes that even before the current violence, Palestinian children were among the most traumatized in the world.
What Jewish values have influenced Daniel Maté’s critique of Zionism?
-Daniel Maté cites values such as compassion (Rahim), a tradition of irony and skepticism, and a commitment to justice (tzedek) as key Jewish principles that have informed his ability to critique Zionism and align himself with broader social justice causes.
What does Daniel Maté envision as a solution for a free Palestine?
-Daniel Maté envisions a society from the river to the sea where Jews and Palestinians live with equal rights, free from racism and supremacy. He believes that Israel’s apartheid policies must end, and reconciliation similar to South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation process is necessary.
What does Dr. Gabor Maté believe is necessary for healing to begin after the violence ends?
-Dr. Gabor Maté believes that for healing to begin, the occupation, apartheid policies, and systemic racism must end. Only when people no longer feel threatened can collective and individual healing take place. He emphasizes that peace and justice are prerequisites for healing.
Outlines
🧠 Understanding Our Struggle with Modern Violence
Anelise Boures opens the episode by highlighting the complexity of the human brain, which possesses 86 billion cells capable of rapid information transmission. Despite this, humanity struggles to comprehend the ongoing violence, much of it broadcasted live over the past 10 months. The episode seeks to explore the emotional toll of witnessing such horrors and how individuals can stand in solidarity in a deeply divided world. The show features guests Dr. Gabor Maté, a Holocaust survivor, and his son Daniel Maté, a musical theater composer, who will address these issues and share their perspectives on justice, trauma, and human rights, with a particular focus on Palestine.
⚖️ The Importance of Supporting Palestinian Rights
Dr. Gabor Maté explains why supporting Palestine is not about choosing sides but about upholding justice and human rights for all people, including Jews. He emphasizes that Palestine is a focal point for global suffering and calls for concern for humanity as a whole. Daniel Maté shares that speaking out on this issue is a matter of maintaining his sanity, as he grapples with the horror and grief from the violence in Gaza, largely perpetrated by Israel. Both agree that ignoring these atrocities while focusing solely on Jewish suffering reflects a failure to recognize the full scope of the tragedy.
💔 Trauma and the Misuse of Historical Pain
Gabor Maté reflects on how his experience as a Holocaust survivor shaped his views. He emphasizes that one trauma cannot be used to justify the infliction of another, stating that his survival does not validate the suffering of Palestinians. Daniel Maté discusses inheriting trauma from his father and how a combination of that trauma and moral principles led him to question Zionist narratives. Raised with a balance of Zionist and anti-occupation influences, Daniel eventually rejected the mainstream Jewish narrative that Zionism is the culmination of Jewish suffering and redemption.
💭 Conflating Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism
Daniel Maté addresses the conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, pointing out that Zionist propaganda equates criticism of Israel with hatred of Jews. He explains that this premise wrongly assumes Jews' identity is solely tied to the state of Israel, a belief rooted in anti-Semitic notions. Daniel rejects the idea that opposing Israel's apartheid system is anti-Semitic, noting that Zionism misrepresents Jewishness and endangers Jews worldwide. He insists that supporting Palestinian rights is not an attack on Jews but a stand for universal justice.
🚶♂️ The Trauma of Displacement and War
Gabor Maté reflects on the ongoing displacement of Palestinians, which he sees as a continuation of the Zionist project that has lasted over a century. He draws parallels between the forced evacuations of Palestinians and the historical experiences of Jews fleeing persecution. Maté recalls his visits to Gaza and the West Bank, where he witnessed immense suffering and was moved to tears. He urges people to visit these areas to understand the reality on the ground, as he believes many still do not fully grasp the extent of Palestinian suffering.
🏞️ Envisioning a Free Palestine
Daniel Maté discusses his vision for a free Palestine, though he admits he does not have a concrete political solution. He imagines a future where Palestinians and Jews live as equals in an egalitarian society, with one person, one vote. This vision requires dismantling Israel's apartheid system, ending the occupation and siege, and promoting truth and reconciliation similar to South Africa. He hopes for a peaceful resolution, though he fears that the current trajectory may lead to further violence before freedom can be achieved.
🛠️ Healing After War
Gabor Maté emphasizes that healing for both Palestinians and Israelis cannot begin without peace. The current siege mentality in Israel, where people feel perpetually under threat, prevents any possibility of healing. He asserts that ending the occupation, apartheid, and racism is necessary to create conditions where healing can happen. Once these oppressive systems are dismantled, both individual and collective healing can take place, but not before the sense of threat is removed.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Trauma
💡Gaza
💡Zionism
💡Anti-Semitism
💡Palestinian Rights
💡Holocaust
💡Justice
💡Occupation
💡Apartheid
💡Human Rights
Highlights
The introduction highlights the paradox of human cognitive capacity versus the inability to fully comprehend ongoing violence and suffering.
Dr. Gabor Mate emphasizes that supporting Palestinian rights is not about taking sides but advocating for human rights universally.
Daniel Mate mentions how the violence in Gaza has escalated exponentially over the past 10 months, calling into question the sanity of those who witness it without responding.
Dr. Gabor Mate rejects the idea of using past Jewish trauma, including the Holocaust, to justify the harm inflicted on Palestinian children, stressing that trauma does not justify more trauma.
Daniel Mate discusses the inheritance of both trauma and strong moral activism from his family, which shaped his views on Zionism and oppression.
Daniel criticizes the conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, calling it a deliberate tactic to silence criticism of Israeli policies.
Gabor Mate highlights the severe trauma Palestinian children are experiencing, which will have lifelong consequences for their mental and physical health.
Daniel Mate points out how irony and humor, derived from Jewish culture, have helped him critique Israeli propaganda and Zionist ideologies.
Dr. Gabor Mate recalls his visits to Gaza and the West Bank, describing his emotional response to the suffering he witnessed, likening it to historical Jewish displacement.
Both Mate and his son argue that Israel’s apartheid regime needs to be dismantled in order for Palestinians to achieve freedom and equality.
Dr. Gabor Mate discusses how the ongoing trauma within Israeli society, combined with the occupation, prevents peace and healing from being achieved on both sides.
Daniel Mate emphasizes that the current system in Israel is apartheid-like, granting privileges to Jews while denying basic rights to Palestinians, which perpetuates conflict.
The discussion explores how Jewish values of compassion and justice can inform a more critical understanding of Zionism and its impact on Palestinians.
Dr. Gabor Mate stresses that healing from the trauma inflicted by the conflict is impossible without first establishing peace and equality.
Daniel highlights that in the future, Palestine should be free from racism, oppression, and apartheid, envisioning a society where Jews and Palestinians live with equal rights.
Transcripts
each one of us has roughly 86 billion
brain cells capable of transmitting
information in fractions of a
millisecond and yet we're all struggling
to comprehend the violence perpetrated
nonstop and on live stream for the past
10 months I'm anelise boures and on this
episode of The Stream we ask what it is
that we feel in the face of such horror
and how to stand in solidarity in a
world more divided than never
and to help us answer those questions
and more we have two very special guests
joining us today physician and Holocaust
Survivor Dr Gabor mate and musical
theater composer Lyricist and Dr Gabor
mate's son Daniel mate thank you both so
much for joining us here on the stream
today I would like to first ask you um
you have been very vocal about your
support for Palestine throughout the
years why is it important to do that
right now despite the backlash from the
Jewish Community especially and
obviously in view of what's been
happening in Gaza and in occupied
territories Gabor can I get you to go
first it's important if you care about
Justice it's important if you care about
truth if it's important if you care
about the emotional spiritual physical
well being of all people around the
world including the Jewish people so
it's not a question of taking sides it's
a question of being concerned with the
fate of humanity and Palestine right now
is a focal point it's
a it's a it's a
focus for all that is troubling and
threatening Humanity so in supporting
Palestinian rights one is supporting
human rights for everybody around the
world
Daniel what is your take why is it
important for you to speak
up I'm not sure I can do better or even
improve on um my dad's answer there I
can speak for myself why it's important
to speak up it's a matter of my own
sanity um
the horrors that have been unfolding in
Gaza and or I should say sort of
exploding in Gaza because uh since
October 7th and I say that because those
Horrors have existed there um and been
perpetrated there uh primarily by Israel
for a long time uh they've just uh
accelerated and Amplified um
exponentially in the last uh 10 months
and I can't believe I'm using the number
10 to describe the number of months this
has been going on but to see them is to
um unless you're captured I think think
by an ideology that numbs you to the
pain of the Palestinian people and that
compels you to see only Jewish suffering
and only a particular version of Jewish
suffering then to look what's happening
in the face is to feel a deep
revulsion um
horror perhaps anger deep grief and
sadness but also I think in the face of
the propaganda that has been Unleashed
by Israel and its um enabler the United
States and the Western media in general
there's a reaction that I've had and
that many people I know have had which
is a kind of am I going crazy feeling
and in speaking out about it in naming
what we're seeing I think we're keeping
ourselves um as well as we can and I
think that's
important I um would like to ask Gabor
about Jewish suffering I mean you are a
holocaust Survivor you went through that
horrific chapter in our history um you
lost loved ones and yet you don't use it
to justify what's currently happening
like many other people actually do I
would like to ask you why you think that
is did you do a lot of work in terms of
identifying that pain and trying to heal
that
trauma as a physician and a Healer I
worked with trauma a
lot and many people individually and
collect L have been traumatized in this
world but you don't use one trauma to
justify another
trauma you don't use one trauma to make
it okay that other people should be
traumatized so yes as an infant I almost
lost my life uh during the Holocaust and
my grandparents died in aitz but that in
no way justifies the death of a single
Palestinian child in Gaza or anywhere
else so you simply do not
use somebody's
trauma to
um make it acceptable that somebody sh
else should be hurt and
furthermore the the Jewish trauma that
is occurred historically and
specifically during the Holocaust is not
answered is not solved is not salved is
not healed by traumatizing another
people Daniel in fact it makes worse in
fact it makes it worse um Daniel would
you say you I don't know inherited some
of that trauma and would you say that at
least in part of your life that shaped
your views shaped your opinions about
the world and how and when did that
shift happened how did you come to see
things the way you see them
now well I inherited a lot and I
inherited a complicated uh cocktail I
would say of uh perspectives
um some informed by trauma some informed
by Deep moral principle and a very
strong activist tradition in my family
that we all take a lot of pride in um
both my father and his brothers and it's
just an ethic in the mate family that uh
we're here to do our
small but to the maximum of our ability
uh our part to to make the world less
conducive to the sorts of Horrors that
nearly wiped out our bloodline um and
nearly resulted in me not
existing um but in terms of how I see
the situation um although I went to a
Zionist summer camp as a kid I also had
an anti I won't say anti-zionist but I
will say um
anti-occupation anti-oppression of the
Palestinians father to counterbalance
that so I never fully bought in to the
narrative that the mainstream Jewish
Community was trying to to me which was
that the history of the Jewish people is
one of suffering and anti-Semitism
culminating in the Redemption of the
creation of the Zionist state of Israel
it never felt right to me and so it
didn't take too much it took reading
Scholars like Noom Chomsky Brave Israeli
journalists like gon Levy and amas and
of course Palestinian voices like Rashid
khidi and and many many others to show
me that there's just a a whole set of
facts that if you grow up in the Zionist
circles you will not know them because
you won't want to know them but if you
know them you can't unknow them and it
it changes
everything um we have reached out to our
community and asked if they wanted to
ask you about the state of the world
these days and we received a bunch of
questions for you guys this is what eang
shared with us take a
look a question that I have for both Dr
mate and Daniel is the conflation of
anti-zionism with anti-Semitism and the
weaponization of anti-Semitism in the
context of the ongoing genocide who
doesa would you be able to share your
Reflections on the realities of this
weaponization of
anti-Semitism as well as the conflation
of this feeling of uh quote unquote
unsafe with that of uh being
uncomfortable confronting one's
privilege of bearing witness to an
ongoing genocide and apartheid
conditions in Palestine Daniel can I get
you to share your thoughts on
that yeah certainly well first of all
the conflation of anti-zionism and
anti-Semitism stems from it stems
inexorably in in fact in electively from
the conflation of Zionism and Judaism um
so the you know if you believe as
Zionist propaganda would have it and
tries to drill into the heads of young
Jewish North Americans like I was uh
that to be Jewish is to be identified
with this modern highly militarized
nationalistic and racist apartheid state
then of course any criticism of that
state by the transitive principle will
mean that you're attacking all Jews but
if you don't accept that frankly
anti-semitic premise because it supposes
that Jews have no identity other than a
national one and that the anti-semites
all throughout history we're correct
that we don't belong anywhere that we
should be segregated into uh ghettos and
other contained spaces of just us which
is essentially what Israel is it's a
ghetto with nuclear weapons uh then if
you don't accept that premise then
you're going to forcefully reject the
notion that to criticize it is to malign
the Jewish people Israel doesn't speak
for me it doesn't act for me and the
notion that if someone objects
to starving an entire population
murdering tens to hundreds of thousands
of people dispossessing close to a
million people and then reinforcing that
and and uh what can I say reimposing
that trauma every day of the last 75
years uh if anyone objects to that hates
me well that's actually an anti-semitic
uh principle and I uh I reject it Israel
is a distortion at Best of what
jewishness and Judaism are supposed to
be it's a complete misdirection and I
see it as the number one threat to the
safety and physical and mental and
emotional and spiritual well-being of
Jews
everywhere um Gabor uh you have a
question now from Kobe actually take a
look I was hoping you could discuss and
shed light onto the trauma that these
infants in Gaza and these young children
are going through and
will have for the rest of their life and
what can be done about it um it's going
to be horrible uh there were studies of
Palestinian kids done over 20 years ago
now that showed them amongst the most
traumatized people in the world uh with
mental health issues and behavior
problems and physical problems and
post-traumatic symptoms large percentage
of them what can we imagine is going to
the impact when so many of them are are
traumatized now orphaned right now
physically hurt right now emotionally
devastated right
now the
Palestinian Health Care system which
they're rightly very proud of was
struggling at the best of times to deal
with the trauma to their
children the future is almost
unimaginable they're struggling to deal
with every single wound right now now um
Daniel here is Katie with a very
interesting question and it touches on
some of the things that you've already
mentioned take a look I'd really love
for you both to speak to the ways that
your Jewish values have actually allowed
you to interrogate Zionism and unpack
Zionism for yourselves what wisdom have
you taken from Judaism what messages
have you taken from Jewish culture that
you think have benefited you and your
sort of capacity for social justice
capacity for unlearning propaganda um
and ability to interrogate this
brutality and the violence of the state
of Israel um there's just a deep uh well
of compassion that the Jewish tradition
has I believe the Hebrew word is Rahim
and it's said over and over again in
Hebrew uh liturgy in Hebrew scripture
and prayer relates very much to an
Arabic word that is spoken all the time
in um Muslim prayers as well um there
are other Jewish values that inform me
in particular one is um if I could say
it's the superpower of irony and what I
mean by that is by being Outsiders by
virtue of being Outsiders throughout
history Jews have been able to look a
scance at prevailing wisdom uh and
mainstream assumptions because we're
looking at it slightly skewed slightly
from the outside and of course we're
also we've been at the receiving end of
what power does to people and how it
corrupts moral values and so ay sense of
humor and ability to see through BS um I
think has served our people very well
and I myself now I'm the co-host of a
satirical podcast called bad hasbara
where all we do me and another Jewish
comedian Matt leeb uh is
every week the Israeli propaganda
machine serves us up more and more bad
hasbara bad propaganda to Piller and
make fun of and I think that's an
important skill being able to see
contradictions in hypocrisy and see
where not just the emperor but the
Empire has no clothes and then lastly
just a sense of justice uh righteousness
sedic um a sense of being called to
repair the world and bring it more into
alignment with what it was created
for um I would like to invite you now to
watch two recent news events related to
Israel's war on Gaza and then get your
reaction first here's Israel's prime
minister Netanyahu speaking to the US
Congress America and Israel must stand
together
um Daniel this was just a a little
fraction of what was uh Speech
punctuated by standing ovations I would
like to know if you were watching and
what were your thoughts when watching
that
speech you know I couldn't subject
myself to the entire thing I don't watch
cringe television and the whole thing is
so completely cringey it looks like
we're looking at a shot of the
Washington aquarium with all those
trained clapping seals uh clapping for
that genocidal warmonger who has nothing
but contempt for them and us here
um what can I say uh it is it's
abominable that this person is welcomed
into the highest Halls of power and that
he's subjected to uh that kind of
fawning agulation and I have to give my
utmost respect to the one me Democratic
member of Congress who dared both show
up and oppose which is Rashid Talib who
held up a sign saying war criminal that
is uh the the least he deserves in terms
of uh rebuke and uh a cold cold welcome
now uh Gabor we have a short sequence of
the mass displacement of Palestinians
inside the Gaza Strip take a
look here are family is being told to
evacuate hunis and you have been to Gaza
and to the West Bank you know these
places when you see scenes like this one
what goes through your
mind well on the pictorial level it's
impossible for me not to see
this as reminiscent of so many other
situations um in history
including situations when Jews had to
flee their places because of threat
but on the other hand it's what's been
going on for so long now so the transfer
and the displacement of the indigenous
population has been discussed as part of
the Zionist project going back for well
over 100 years so in a sense this is the
culmination and the apotheosis you might
say of the essence of the Zionist uh
intent which is to keep displacing these
people to make life impossible for them
so that all the land could be available
for Jewish occupation and settlement so
in that sense it's just the most
concrete and the most recent and the
most brutal but certainly not the first
manifestations of the essence of Zionist
ideology and uh anybody who doesn't see
that just hasn't studied history can I
ask you briefly to describe what we what
your trips to Gaza to the West Bank were
like I remember reading somewhere that
you said you cried for days at
witnessing the level of violence the
level of suffering of the
people the first time I went to the West
Bank and Gaza was in uh during the first
in when the situation was a lot better
than it is right
now and even then I cried every day for
two weeks because I just couldn't
believe that somehow I used to believe
that this was Justice that this was
history that this was the salvation of
the Jewish people to this to see the
suffering imposed on the Palestinians
most recently I was back there two years
ago in the West Bank I was working with
Palestinian women who' been tortured in
Israeli jails and were suffering
post-traumatic stress
disorder and again um it's almost
difficult to put it into words and all I
can say to anybody is if you don't know
what's going
on if you want to know what's going on
visit see for yourself of course you
can't visit Gaza right now but anybody
who go to the West Bank listens to the
Palestinians I remember when I was in
Gaza back in the 1990s and people were
living on these cement
HS and they said to me just tell them
tell them what it's like for us tell
them what happened to us
tell our
stories and those stories still have not
been told and now we're seeing it played
out every day on our screens and people
are still not listening it's
um infuriating to say the least we are
approaching the end of the show but
before we go we have a few more
questions from our community here's Nick
from let's give a damn take a
look we demand a free p Palestine I
demand this every single day in a
variety of ways and I know you do too
but what does it mean for you
practically as anti-zionist Jews what
does it mean for Palestine to be free
especially now that we know more clearly
than ever that Israel does not want to
live in peace with Palestinians and
wants to remove them from their land and
annihilate them if they don't leave I
know it's all Theory at this point but
lots of theories have been shared so in
your opinion what will it take very
practically for Palestine to be free
Daniel what is your take what will it
take for Palestine to be
free I try not to venture into having um
a political program or political
platform because if I wanted that I
would go into politics and learn to lie
about it for a living I truly don't know
what Freedom will take um I know that
certain things would have to end in
order order for that to be the case what
would replace them is an open question I
have my own vision of an
egalitarian uh Society from The River To
The Sea where Jews at least those who
can uh divest themselves uh of and
disabuse themselves of Zionist racist
ideology are free to live in peace and
equality one person one vote and equal
rights for all with the Palestinians of
that land uh and of course there would
have to be a lot of Truth and a lot of
reconciliation uh such as happened in
South Africa and other places um but the
occupation has to end the siege has to
end um Israel's apartheid mentality and
infrastructure and policies is going to
have to crumble um I shudder to think of
what it's going to take and I sometimes
don't know what to hope for um societies
like Israel who have gone completely mad
um often take a catastrophic defeat on
the order of a bloodbath in order to
wake up and give up the ghost um I pray
that it's that's not what it takes and
at the same time the status quo can't
continue so if I think of I think maybe
the qu the way I would reframe the
question is um not exactly what uh
framework do I see but what would
Palestine be free from a free Palestine
it would be free from racism be free
from supremacy of anyone over anyone and
then what would it be free to do uh it
would be free to actually become a land
that lives up to
its reputation and its name and its
tradition as a Holy One um and and an
embodiment of of the best that Humanity
has to offer and for that to happen um
the apartheid regime of Israel uh has to
be dismantled in some form or another
and reconstitute itself as as something
closer to what humanity is actually
capable of very well put um Gabor here's
one final question for you here's
Gabriel take a
listen I know that healing is an
individual thing right but healing is
also a collective thing something that
happens
collectively how do we after the war is
over hopefully sooner than
later meet the needs of the kids the
adults who have
been suffering from this war and how do
we both meet individually and how do we
heal as a
society you know it's all a matter of
conditions and under the present
conditions of The Siege mentality inside
Israel where people see themselves as
constantly under threat and they don't
understand what they Society is creating
the threat to Itself by how it treats
the Palestinian population and the rest
of the Middle East um until we have
conditions of Peace we can't even
conceive of what healing might look like
but if people are no longer under threat
and no longer perceive themselves under
threat and that
means ending the occupation ending the
apartheid ending the racism ending a
situation where Daniel and I could fly
to Israel tomorrow and become cens the
day after whereas Palestinians who were
born there can't even visit until we end
that situation we can't even talk about
healing if there was peace if there was
the sense of threat removed then healing
is possible both on the collective on an
individual
level but for that healing to even begin
peace needs to actually Prevail thank
you both so much Gabor and Daniel for
being part of the Stream
today and thank you all for watching
don't forget to stay in touch with us
online you can send us your questions
and suggestions with a hashtag or the
handle AJ's stream and we'll look into
them take care and I'll see you soon
[Music]
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