Building a Startup Dream Team 💪

What the 3
30 Jun 202417:01

Summary

TLDRIn diesem Video-Skript diskutieren Ockert und Thomas über die Bedeutung von Talent, Charakter und Teamfähigkeit gegenüber bloßen Egos bei der Suche nach Top-Talenten. Sie betonen die Wichtigkeit von企业文化 und die Bereitschaft, in Mitarbeiter zu investieren, die sich über die Zeit bewährt haben. Sie geben auch Ratschläge, wie man talentierte Entwickler findet, die die Unternehmensvision teilen und wie man sie für ein Startup bezahlt, ohne übermäßige Gehälter zu bieten.

Takeaways

  • 💼 Die Suche nach Top-Talent findet nicht immer dort statt, wo man es erwarten würde. Manche Talente sind in übersehenen Ecken zu finden.
  • 💰 Es gibt viele Fälle, in denen Menschen aufgrund ihres Egos mehr bezahlt werden als aufgrund ihrer Fähigkeiten oder Talente.
  • 👥 Teamfähigkeit und Charakter sind entscheidend für die Zusammenarbeit und das Verständnis der Unternehmenskultur.
  • 💼💰 In der Blockchain-Branche sind Gehälter für erfahrene Entwickler, PR und BD-Spezialisten sehr hoch.
  • 🏆 Top-Talent verdient sein Gehalt durch Leistung und nicht nur durch Vergangenes Erfolgserlebnis.
  • 🌱 Nachweis der Fähigkeiten und der Beitrag zum Team ist entscheidend, bevor man in die Firma integriert wird.
  • 🌐 Die Suche nach Talent reicht über nationale Grenzen hinaus; es wird auf Fähigkeiten und nicht auf Herkunft geachtet.
  • 💡 Kreativität und Problemlösungsfähigkeit sind ebenso wichtig wie technische Fähigkeiten.
  • 🚀 Es ist wichtig, Mitarbeiter nach ihrer Leistung und nicht nur nach ihrer Erfahrung zu beurteilen.
  • 🎯 Einstellung von Mitarbeitern sollte auf ihre Leidenschaft und Persönlichkeit abzielen, da Fähigkeiten erlernt werden können.
  • 📈 Die Bedeutung von Meilensteinen und Erfolgen für die Motivation und Anerkennung von Mitarbeitern.

Q & A

  • Wie beurteilt Ockert die Situation, in der viele Menschen für ihren Ego überbezahlt werden?

    -Ockert sieht viele Menschen, die für ihr Ego überbezahlt werden, im Vergleich zu ihrem Talent und den Fähigkeiten, die sie mitbringen können.

  • Wo sucht Ockert nach Entwicklern und Teammitgliedern?

    -Ockert sucht Entwickler und Teammitglieder in Orten, die man überraschend finden könnte, da dort eine ungewöhnliche Menge an unentdecktem Talent zu finden ist.

  • Was ist nach Ansicht von Ockert wichtiger als das Gehalt?

    -Ockert legt größeren Wert auf das Charakter und die Fähigkeit der Menschen, in einem Team zu arbeiten und die Unternehmenskultur zu verstehen, als auf das Gehalt.

  • Wie beurteilt Ockert die Idee von 'Rockstar Entwicklern'?

    -Ockert warnt davor, dass 'Rockstar Entwickler' oft aufgrund ihres Egos überbezahlt werden und dies nicht unbedingt ihre Fähigkeiten reflektiert.

  • Was ist nach Ockerts Meinung das Wichtigste, um Top-Talent anzuziehen?

    -Ockert glaubt, dass man Top-Talent anziehen kann, indem man ihnen eine Chance gibt, Teil des Unternehmens zu werden, und sie durch Boni und Gehaltserhöhungen für ihre Leistungen belohnt.

  • Wie sieht Ockert die Rolle von Teamleitern bei der Bewertung von Mitarbeitern?

    -Ockert glaubt, dass Teamleiter die am besten beurteilen können, ob ein Mitarbeiter sein Gehalt verdient hat, da sie das Budget verwalten, das sie ausgeben.

  • Welche Rolle spielt die Unternehmenskultur für Ockert bei der Mitarbeiterakquise?

    -Die Unternehmenskultur ist für Ockert sehr wichtig, da Mitarbeiter, die sich mit der Kultur identifizieren, bereit sind, einen Lohnnachlass zu akzeptieren und für die Firma zu arbeiten.

  • Wie beurteilt Ockert die Bedeutung von Meilensteinen und Erfolgen im Unternehmen?

    -Ockert betont die Bedeutung von Meilensteinen und Erfolgen, um Mitarbeiter zu motivieren und zu zeigen, dass ihre Arbeit wertvoll ist und zur Unternehmensentwicklung beiträgt.

  • Was sind die Ansichten von Thomas über die Rolle von Motivation und Führung in Entwicklungsteam?

    -Thomas glaubt, dass die richtige Motivation, Führung und Werte dazu beitragen können, dass gute Mitarbeiter zu großartigen und durchschnittliche Mitarbeiter zu guten werden.

  • Wie sieht Thomas die Rolle von 'Rockstar Entwicklern' in der Entwicklung?

    -Thomas warnt, dass der Titel 'Rockstar Entwickler' nicht unbedingt bedeutet, dass jemand ein großartiger Entwickler ist, da oft viel Ego involviert ist und dies zu mittelmäßigen Fähigkeiten führen kann.

  • Was ist nach Thomas' Meinung das Wichtigste, wenn man Talente für ein Startup findet?

    -Thomas betont, dass man Talente findet, die die Unternehmenskultur und die Vision des Unternehmens teilen, und die bereit sind, mit Leidenschaft und Engagement dazu beizutragen.

Outlines

00:00

💼 Überbewertung von Talent vs. Fähigkeiten

Ockert diskutiert das Phänomen der Überbezahlung von Mitarbeitern aufgrund ihres Egos im Vergleich zu ihren tatsächlichen Fähigkeiten. Er betont die Wichtigkeit von Charakter und Teamfähigkeiten sowie der Anpassung an die Unternehmenskultur. Er plädiert für eine gerechtfertigte Bezahlung, die durch die Leistung der Mitarbeiter und die Einschätzung der Teamleiter bestimmt wird. Zudem betont er die Bedeutung, Talente in übersehenen Ecken zu entdecken und diese aufgrund ihrer Leidenschaft und ihrem Beitrag für das Unternehmen zu wertschätzen.

05:06

🌐 Sucht nach Talent außerhalb der Mainstream-Orte

Ockert und Thomas teilen ihre Ansichten darüber, wie man Top-Talent außerhalb der traditionellen Orte findet. Sie betonen, dass Talent oft in übersehenen Orten zu finden ist und dass die Herkunft oder der Hintergrund einer Person keine Rolle spielt, solange sie die nötigen Fähigkeiten besitzt. Thomas ergänzt, dass die richtige Motivation und Führungsweise in Polen und Zentralosteuropa dazu beitragen können, dass durchschnittliche Entwickler zu guten und gute zu erstklassigen werden.

10:11

🚀 Die Bedeutung von Leidenschaft und Charakter

In diesem Absatz wird diskutiert, wie wichtig Leidenschaft und Charakter für die Entwicklung eines Mitarbeiters sind. Ockert und Thomas sind sich einig, dass Fähigkeiten erlernt werden können, aber die richtigen Einstellungen und das Vermögen, Probleme kreativ zu lösen, sind entscheidend. Sie warnen vor den Gefahren des Ego von 'Rockstar-Entwicklern' und betonen, dass es wichtig ist, Menschen mit einem starken Beitrag für die Zukunft zu gewinnen und nicht nur auf ihre Vergangenheit zu achten.

15:12

📈 Überlegungen zur Personalaufstellung und -entwicklung

Ockert und Thomas reflektieren über die Herausforderungen des Personalwachstums in Startups. Sie betonen, dass es schwierig sein kann, die richtigen Menschen zu finden und dass es Zeit braucht, bis ein neuer Mitarbeiter die Geschwindigkeit des Teams erreicht. Sie warnen vor den Fallen des Überlaufs mit Mitarbeitern und dem falschen Glauben, dass mehr Geld die Lösung für alle Probleme ist. Stattdessen sollten Startups geduldig mit ihren Mitarbeitern umgehen und ihnen die Zeit geben, um sich vollständig in die Teamstruktur einzuarbeiten.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Überbezahlung

Überbezahlung bezieht sich auf eine Situation, in der jemand mehr bezahlt wird, als sein Talent oder seine Fähigkeiten es rechtfertigen. Im Video wird dies kritisiert, da viele Menschen aufgrund ihres Egos oder ihrer Fähigkeiten überbezahlt werden, ohne die erforderlichen Fähigkeiten oder Talente zu besitzen. Dies steht im Kontrast zum Hauptthema des Videos, das Wert auf Talent, Teamfähigkeit und Unternehmenskultur legt.

💡Teamfähigkeit

Teamfähigkeit ist die Fähigkeit, erfolgreich in einem Team zu arbeiten und die Unternehmenskultur zu verstehen. Im Video wird betont, dass diese Eigenschaft bei der Auswahl von Teammitgliedern wichtiger ist als das bloße Talent. Beispielsweise sucht Ockert nach Entwicklern, die nicht nur talentiert sind, sondern auch in der Lage sind, sich in ein Team und die Unternehmenskultur einzuordnen.

💡Unternehmenskultur

Unternehmenskultur bezieht sich auf die Werte, Normen und Verhaltensweisen, die in einer Organisation vorherrschen. Im Video spielt die Unternehmenskultur eine zentrale Rolle, da sie als entscheidend für die Zusammenarbeit und den Erfolg eines Teams angesehen wird. Ockert betont, dass Talente, die die Unternehmenskultur verstehen und unterstützen, bevorzugt werden.

💡Talent

Talent bezieht sich auf die natürlichen Fähigkeiten oder das Potenzial einer Person in einer bestimmten Tätigkeit. Im Video wird betont, dass Talent wichtiger ist als das Ego und dass Talente, die bereit sind, für die Unternehmensvision zu arbeiten, statt für bloßes Geld, bevorzugt werden.

💡Token Deal

Ein Token Deal ist eine Form der Vergütung, bei der Mitarbeiter statt Bargeld oder Aktien Token einer Blockchain-Plattform erhalten. Im Video wird gefragt, ob solche Deals eine Option sind, um Top-Talent anzuziehen, was auf die Diskussion der Vergütungsstrategien in der Blockchain-Industrie hinweist.

💡Senior Entwickler

Ein Senior Entwickler ist jemand mit vielen Jahren Erfahrung im Bereich der Softwareentwicklung. Im Video wird erwähnt, dass Senior Entwickler oft hohe Gehälter verlangen, was auf die teure Belegschaft in der Blockchain-Industrie hinweist.

💡Bootstrapping

Bootstrapping beschreibt den Prozess, bei dem ein Unternehmen ohne externe Finanzierung aus eigenen Mitteln wächst. Im Video wird dies in Bezug auf die Finanzierung von Gehältern und die Selbstfinanzierung des Unternehmens diskutiert.

💡Milestones

Milestones sind wichtige Meilensteine oder Ziele, die ein Unternehmen oder Team erreichen soll. Im Video wird betont, dass Meilensteine für die Teammitglieder und das Unternehmen selbst gesetzt werden sollten, um die Leistung und den Fortschritt zu messen und zu belohnen.

💡Kulturelle Vielfalt

Kulturelle Vielfalt bezieht sich auf die Unterschiede in den kulturellen Hintergründen der Menschen innerhalb einer Organisation. Im Video wird betont, dass manche Unternehmen talentierte Menschen aus verschiedenen kulturellen Hintergründen und nicht nur aus großen Städten suchen, um eine echte Vielfalt zu erreichen.

💡Remote Arbeit

Remote Arbeit bedeutet, dass Mitarbeiter von zu Hause oder einem anderen Ort außerhalb des traditionellen Arbeitsplatzes arbeiten. Im Video wird erwähnt, dass viele Teammitglieder remote arbeiten und ihre eigenen Zusammenkünfte organisieren, was die Flexibilität und die Herausforderungen der Remote-Arbeit aufzeigt.

💡Problemlösung

Problemlösung ist die Fähigkeit, effektiv Lösungen für Probleme zu finden. Im Video wird betont, dass Kreativität in der Problemlösung wichtig ist und dass manche Mitarbeiter, obwohl sie nicht als Top-Entwickler angesehen werden, wertvolle Beiträge zur Problemlösung leisten können.

Highlights

Ockert emphasizes that many people are overpaid based on ego rather than talent or skills, and values character and team fit over salary demands.

Charlie discusses the high salaries in the blockchain space and asks Ockert about strategies for attracting top talent without overpaying.

Ockert suggests that top talent is often found in unexpected places and values the team's ability to assess if someone has earned their salary.

He mentions that many team members have taken pay cuts to join the company due to its culture and shared vision.

Ockert advises offering developers and team members opportunities to become more integral to the company after proving themselves.

He shares his approach to finding developers in places that understand struggle and have untapped talent, valuing creativity in technology.

Ockert explains the company's multicultural hiring policy, focusing on skills rather than jurisdiction or ethnicity.

He stresses the importance of bonuses, raises, and setting milestones for team motivation and recognition of achievements.

Thomas agrees with Ockert, adding that the right motivation and leadership can transform average teams into great ones.

Thomas discusses the importance of company culture and values in attracting the right talent and how it impacts team performance.

Ockert shares his perspective on not hiring based on CVs alone, focusing on current abilities and character over past achievements.

He highlights the patience required when hiring, as new team members need time to learn and become profitable for the company.

Thomas warns against overspending in startups, suggesting that throwing money at problems does not solve them and can lead to bankruptcy.

Ockert emphasizes the importance of hiring for attitude and passion, as skills can be taught but character is harder to develop.

Thomas points out that being a 'rockstar engineer' does not guarantee being a great engineer, as ego can hinder team success.

Ockert discusses the challenges of hiring in different stages of a startup and the time it takes for new hires to become fully productive.

Thomas and Ockert agree on the importance of patience and understanding the learning curve when integrating new team members.

Transcripts

play00:00

Ockert: I think there's a lot of people that's overpaid for an

play00:02

ego versus the talent and versus the skills that they can bring.

play00:06

I look for developers and for team members in places where you'll be

play00:10

kind of like amazed at the amount of talent, which is untapped, I care about

play00:16

your character and your ability to be able to work in a team and be able

play00:21

to understand the company culture.

play00:25

Charlie: With respect to salaries and.

play00:29

Let's see your bootstrapping.

play00:30

We're all plugged into the ecosystem.

play00:32

There are senior devs asking for 150 grand plus salaries as, you

play00:37

know, there's, there's some, some serious money going around the

play00:40

blockchain space for established engineers, PR people, BD people.

play00:46

Everyone's trying to like really commanding quite a high salary.

play00:49

Do you?

play00:50

Do you think it's worth it?

play00:51

Do you, do you work out some sort of token deal?

play00:53

What would you advise to get top tier talent for, for people

play00:58

who are building that vision?

play01:01

Ockert: Top tier talent isn't in the place where you think it is.

play01:03

Thomas: That's a good one.

play01:08

Ockert: I'll tell you straight.

play01:09

I think, no offense guys.

play01:12

And this is my humble opinion.

play01:14

I think there's a lot of people that's overpaid for an ego, versus the talent

play01:21

and versus the skills that they can bring.

play01:25

What I can say to you,

play01:29

we are extremely fortunate to have the team that we have.

play01:36

And we don't pay small salaries.

play01:41

But you gotta make sure that you earn that salary.

play01:45

That's the important thing.

play01:46

And it's not us that does the measurement.

play01:49

It's the team leads that makes the measurement.

play01:51

Because they, they basically know it's their budget that they're spending.

play01:57

And this is the important thing is, is many people have come to join

play02:05

the team, took a pay cut, took less than what they're, they can get in

play02:10

the market, but that's because they don't, they don't They don't just

play02:17

do it for a job and just for money.

play02:19

They do it because of the culture and because of the team and

play02:22

because what they believe in.

play02:24

What I can say is, is

play02:27

offer your developers once they've proven themselves or your team, not just your

play02:33

developers, but your, your entire team.

play02:37

Once they've proven themselves over a consecutive time, make sure

play02:40

that you put a plan in to make them more part of the company.

play02:44

Because that's the important thing.

play02:46

The more apart they become, the more at home they will feel.

play02:53

And I can tell you, I don't look in your normal places for developers.

play02:59

I look for developers in places and for team members in places

play03:05

where they understand the struggle.

play03:10

And you'll be kind of like amazed at the amount of talent, which is untapped,

play03:17

which you can find in certain places.

play03:20

It's astonishing.

play03:22

Of how creative they can be in technology.

play03:25

And this is what makes it so fantastic then and makes

play03:28

it feasible for us to do it.

play03:31

And we don't care about your jurisdiction.

play03:35

We don't care about your ethnicity.

play03:37

We don't care about, we're a multicultural society.

play03:41

And if you've got the skills.

play03:44

We're willing to listen and we're willing to pay for them.

play03:47

And we'll pay what they're worth.

play03:50

And I don't mean I'm going to skimp on a payment.

play03:54

We are generous and bonuses are important.

play03:59

Raises are important.

play04:01

Milestones.

play04:02

Set milestones, those achievements can actually, you know, we're

play04:09

not the best at corporate events.

play04:12

I'll say that.

play04:14

We've, we've tried to establish one, but it's really hard.

play04:19

And, with most of our team being remote.

play04:24

But what I can say is, is the team members that are close by, team leads

play04:28

have arranged their own get togethers and things like this, which we've paid

play04:31

for, and we've done some of our own corporate events and things like this.

play04:35

We're still looking to do a whole full corporate event, but

play04:39

everyone needs to go to one place.

play04:40

So we're trying to like, trying to see where the best place is.

play04:45

But the most important part is, is have several milestones

play04:50

for yourself and the company.

play04:52

Which is specifically aimed at your team, you as the founder.

play04:57

And you know, I always say, I don't want to have everything of nothing.

play05:05

I'd rather have a little of something.

play05:08

So this is the important part.

play05:11

And you know, I really am going to go back to this and I'm going to say,

play05:19

you cannot find the type of talent in the places that you think.

play05:28

Thomas: I can, I can agree on that.

play05:31

Charlie: Where are the places?

play05:34

Thomas: I'm actually curious if, if your, your places and my places are different.

play05:38

Ockert: Well, I won't say that, but what I can say is, is, I won't

play05:45

say where it is or these types of things, but we, we probably have from

play05:50

everywhere in the world people, but they come not from major cities or

play05:55

major places or things like this.

play05:58

And it's really strange how we get to them.

play06:01

It is really, sometimes it's like, it's like a kind of story that

play06:06

you'll sit and you'll think, how the hell did we get this guy?

play06:09

And he's absolutely brilliant.

play06:12

How did no one else find him or her?

play06:15

Sorry, I'm talking about a guy, but also her.

play06:17

I mean, we've got amazing girls in the team, absolutely phenomenal

play06:21

of the things that they can do.

play06:22

And it's all because of their experience.

play06:24

It's all because of the things that they, that they do.

play06:28

Thomas: I would add something to that actually, as I I'm running

play06:32

with a lot of development teams here in Poland and central Europe,

play06:36

which is in and of itself a super interesting culture development culture.

play06:39

And obviously, you know, since we're living in Slovakia a little

play06:43

bit, I found that if you offer the right motivation, the right.

play06:51

leadership, the right values, good becomes great and average becomes good.

play07:01

And, and I think that is, and I always say this, like our teams are

play07:05

generally consisting of like, I have a research team consisting of PhD.

play07:09

They're absolute ballers, like shameless plug, absolute ballers.

play07:12

Like they will.

play07:13

They have a very, similar perspective on technology as you, you, you do

play07:17

yourself, but we mix those, those, those great senior talents with meteor

play07:24

engineers that in experience that, and then they go with the right leadership.

play07:29

And, you know, they're great leaders from, from great, like to good, to great.

play07:35

And I think that is actually how you find people.

play07:38

And it has a lot to do with what you, what you And, you know, show the world on,

play07:44

on how you are, what kind of company you are and, and why it works as it works.

play07:49

I think that's how sometimes, at least in my opinion, you'll find

play07:52

people, you'll find the right people for the right company that you are.

play07:57

And, and I'll.

play07:59

Explain that really short because like, as you awkward, like, I think if engineers

play08:02

are listening to this, I am an ex project manager, I would say, well, okay, hey,

play08:07

looking for another project manager because that's very compelling message.

play08:10

Right.

play08:11

But I can imagine that somebody that is, is an engineer for

play08:15

the money and I know them.

play08:16

And they're great engineers.

play08:17

They'll probably say, yeah, that's too much work.

play08:20

I want to make, I want to make a lot of money and I I'll, I'll make it worth it.

play08:24

But what Orchid says, I'm not so sure because it doesn't, it's not necessarily

play08:28

the message that they're looking for.

play08:30

And I think when you look for talent and that goes, I think in every branch,

play08:33

but my, my branch is development, you look for people that, that speak your

play08:38

language, your specific company, like your community language, your, however

play08:42

you try, whatever you want to call it.

play08:43

Like that's, and that, that's where.

play08:45

You, you, they get leveled, they get passionate.

play08:48

And now that, that good engineer is now a great engineer.

play08:54

Ockert: You see, the important thing, what I want to say is, is like, for example,

play08:58

it depends on where your company is based.

play09:03

When you have a look at certain salaries which are being paid in certain countries,

play09:07

I think it is absolutely exorbitant and I cannot believe how the hell

play09:12

they can actually pay such salaries.

play09:14

But I'm also saying, in the regions where we are, we pay above standard.

play09:20

Actually, quite high above standard.

play09:23

But what I, I agree with you 100%.

play09:27

You know, I sometimes, you know, or not just me, but, but, but even our

play09:35

team leads, they sometimes rather look at the passion of the individual

play09:40

and the character of the individual.

play09:43

They might not have the skills, but skills you can learn.

play09:47

If you've got the right attitude.

play09:50

You can come in and you can learn and you can grow that individual

play09:54

into something spectacular.

play09:56

That is exactly 100 percent on par and cue.

play10:01

I, I could not have said that better.

play10:03

And what I can say is, is, you know, there's being mediocre in skills, but

play10:11

being creative in problem solving.

play10:14

It's also a very important thing, and you can be a top notch developer,

play10:20

but I can tell you what you can sometimes learn from the mediocre.

play10:23

And

play10:23

Thomas: I just wanted to mention that like being a rockstar engineer

play10:27

doesn't guarantee that you're like, well, being a rockstar developer

play10:31

doesn't mean you're a great engineer.

play10:32

Yeah.

play10:33

It actually means generally you're a mediocre engineer because

play10:36

there's a lot of ego involved.

play10:37

And once, like throughout, I think that the red thread in this whole discussion

play10:42

has been what I find it's like, like.

play10:45

Also from you personally, like the, the amount of ego is, is incredibly low.

play10:51

I mean, you need to, I think if you want to be successful, but that goes

play10:57

also for your team, if you become like.

play11:00

If you hire people with a big ego, like, and, and in this case, Rockstar

play11:03

engineers, massive issue, massive issue.

play11:07

You, you, you get mediocre teammates or you can get, I'm not saying like for

play11:11

all the Rockstar engineers out here, like I'm not trying to, they're amazing.

play11:16

And some of them, and maybe most of them are great, but there is also

play11:19

a good amount that doesn't have the skills to be a great engineer,

play11:24

Ockert: you know, hiring and these types of, activities that

play11:31

you have to do as a startup.

play11:33

It's sometimes really difficult and sometimes it's really

play11:36

hard to find the right person.

play11:39

But what I can say is, is, you know, we, we have some real rock stars in

play11:45

the team and they, they cost, but what I can say is, is, They've earned it.

play11:54

And it's not about from what they did in the past, it's from what

play11:58

they've already achieved now, current.

play12:02

And that's why you get these individuals in.

play12:05

If you're going to keep on, keep on living of what you've accomplished in the past

play12:10

as a developer, and you're not focused on the future, that's when you should know

play12:16

you should probably change your attitude, because it's not going to get you to where

play12:20

you want to be because you can actually be a lot bigger and a lot greater than.

play12:27

Trying to delve just on, okay, well, I was part of this team and I did this

play12:30

particular thing and it's successful.

play12:32

Okay.

play12:32

So what have you done now recent?

play12:34

You know,

play12:35

Thomas: you're telling me that if I put X Google in my LinkedIn,

play12:38

that's, that's not valuable.

play12:41

Ockert: I don't look at a CV.

play12:46

I'll tell you straight.

play12:48

I look at what you can do.

play12:49

And I look at your, your character, of course, our team leads look at the CVs

play12:53

and they look at certain other things.

play12:55

Me personally, when Rastislav and I were hiring, I used to tell our HR department,

play13:01

they used to get CVs and things like this.

play13:05

And they used to want to put the CV in front of me.

play13:07

Should we interview?

play13:07

Should we not?

play13:08

And I said, just interview.

play13:10

And we gave almost everyone a chance that came in.

play13:14

It was only when it was like really not, not where we think.

play13:19

But we, what I can say is, is, I

play13:25

really don't actually care whether you have an education

play13:28

or what you've done in the past.

play13:29

I care about what you can do right now.

play13:31

I care about also your character and your ability to be able to work in a team and

play13:38

be able to understand a company culture.

play13:40

These are the things that I think is more important because your skills,

play13:44

we can always teach you skills.

play13:46

You know, this is also one thing which is quite important.

play13:50

To say to, to startups.

play13:54

In the beginning, it's easy to hire people.

play14:00

Once you get to a certain stage, it gets extremely difficult.

play14:06

And then you have to understand that it can take anything between three

play14:11

to six months before that individual.

play14:17

is useful or is profitable.

play14:21

When I mean useful, I don't mean useful.

play14:23

I mean like profitable because they need to learn.

play14:26

They need to understand the repositories.

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They need to go through all the code.

play14:28

They need to understand all the documentation.

play14:30

They need to understand how the project's put together, the architecture.

play14:32

They need to understand the, the, the deployment, the DevOps section, all

play14:36

the things, how the communicators are working, all these types of different

play14:39

things that they got to look at.

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Once they've understood that, then they can Actually start participating,

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but it depends on how big and what's the scale of your project and how

play14:50

far you are in the project and you always need to keep that into account.

play14:55

So now it's like, you know, someone says, someone says, Oh, well, we can do the

play14:59

project faster if we hire more people.

play15:04

It's going to take at least three months before we get the speed going.

play15:09

Thomas: This is the, the, the nine months.

play15:11

Nine mothers, one month baby, baby

play15:14

Ockert: discussion.

play15:14

Yeah, no, we've had them.

play15:16

And, and, and, and this is the important thing as a, as an entrepreneur and as

play15:20

a, as a business startup to understand as you progress, you, you're going

play15:23

to get through these challenges and you're going to get to these stages

play15:26

and it's really interesting stages.

play15:28

Some people are extremely fast in understanding, clicking and

play15:30

learning, but some people are not.

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And they are extremely valuable to have, but you got to give them the time.

play15:36

And that's where patience comes in again, because you got to be patient with them

play15:40

to actually understand so that they can fully, so that they can be fully

play15:43

optimized in the skill sets that they, that they're going to bring to the team.

play15:47

And that's, that's, that's the important aspect to it.

play15:49

But everyone matters.

play15:52

It is, it is the important thing of that.

play15:54

Thomas: I want, I want to add one more thing, Charlie.

play15:55

And then like, cause I know where you want to go with this.

play15:58

I think that's also the piece with overspending.

play16:02

It's really easy to get when you're in that stage of startup or, well,

play16:06

kind of scale up where you're, you're, you might feel very often.

play16:12

Oh, if I throw more money at the problem, it will solve the problem.

play16:15

I will guarantee you right now.

play16:18

And I think, okay, you can agree on this.

play16:20

It will never solve the problem to the contrary.

play16:22

It creates so many problems that you might actually look back on that and

play16:28

saying like, oh shit, this, this has been an, a company defining moment or

play16:32

changing moment, and we've seen companies go bankrupt because of it because they

play16:36

were unable to go from that scale of startup phase to a scale up phase.

play16:41

Because they figured, Oh yeah, now we need to deliver 15 features.

play16:45

So we're going to build 15 feature teams.

play16:47

That means 60 people and we're going to hire them all in one month.

play16:50

And this is all going to happen.

play16:52

Yeah, that's exactly.

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