António Damásio: Neuroscience, Medicine and a New Society

Summary

The speaker at the event celebrates the achievements of the Animal Foundation and its supporters over the past decade, highlighting advancements in science and medicine. They predict a convergence of life and social sciences into a new field called 'human sciences,' emphasizing the importance of understanding human beings within the broader biological context. The speaker also discusses the evolution of consciousness and its impact on homeostasis, the role of culture in managing life regulation, and the potential for future neurobiological research to clarify the dual nature of consciousness. They touch on the significance of microbiota and the enteric nervous system in health, and the emerging field of human-engineered device interfaces, such as brain-activated prosthetics. The talk concludes with a cautionary note on the potential for societal disruption due to various global challenges, urging a proactive approach to prevent such catastrophes.

Takeaways

• 🎉 **Celebration of Achievement**: The speaker acknowledges the accomplishments of the Animal Foundation in science, medicine, and their optimistic spirit over the past decade.
• 🧠 **Convergence of Sciences**: Predicts a merging of life sciences and social sciences into a new field called 'human sciences', focusing on the biological continuum of human characteristics.
• 🌐 **Human Exceptionalism Shift**: Suggests a move away from viewing humans as exceptional towards recognizing our place in the biological spectrum.
• 🧬 **Sentience and Evolution**: Highlights the evolution of life regulation, including the emergence of sentience and feeling, which are critical for consciousness.
• 🌿 **Continuity in Evolution**: Emphasizes the importance of understanding the continuity of life and the interconnectedness of all species.
• 🧬 **Dual Control of Homeostasis**: Discusses the dual control of homeostasis, both automatic and willful, and its implications for freedom and potential conflicts.
• 💡 **Cultural Instruments**: Describes cultural instruments such as arts, belief systems, and governance as extensions of biological homeostasis to manage socio-cultural stasis.
• 🌱 **Cooperation in Biology and Culture**: Points out the significance of cooperation at various biological levels and its reflection in socio-cultural phenomena.
• 🧐 **Consciousness Debate**: Anticipates advancements in neurobiology that will help explain the dual nature of consciousness within the next decade.
• 🦠 **Microbiota's Role in Health**: Predicts the growing recognition of the gut microbiota's influence on nervous system diseases like depression and autism.
• 🤖 **Neuro-Technology Interface**: Envisions a future where brain-activated prosthetics and exoskeletons become commonplace, aiding those with physical disabilities.
• ⚖️ **Homeostasis in Medicine**: Defines medicine as a cultural extension of homeostasis, addressing the failures of natural homeostasis in disease.
• ⚠️ **Risks of Disruption**: Warns of the potential for societal and environmental disruptions, similar to historical events, and the importance of addressing inequality and other issues to prevent such catastrophes.

Q & A

What is the significance of the celebration being discussed in the transcript?

The celebration is significant because it marks ten years of remarkable achievements by the Animal Foundation and its supporters in building, science, and medicine programs.

What is the first prediction made by the speaker regarding the future of scientific disciplines?

The first prediction is that the life sciences and social sciences will merge to form a new field called the 'new human sciences,' reflecting an integration of biological knowledge across multiple species and their evolutionary placement.

Why is it important to move away from human exceptionalism in scientific research?

Moving away from human exceptionalism is important because it acknowledges the continuity of biological characteristics that appear in many other species, fostering a more comprehensive understanding of our place in the biological world.

What is the role of the nervous system in the evolution of life?

The nervous system evolved when multicellular organisms required neural assistance for efficient and well-coordinated homeostasis, eventually leading to the emergence of feeling, consciousness, and dual control over homeostasis.

How does the concept of 'cooperations' play a role in biological and socio-cultural evolution?

Cooperations are instances where independent entities join together symbiotically to form a living cell, tissues, organs, and even social groups. This concept is crucial in understanding the emergence of complex life forms and socio-cultural structures.

What is the potential impact of the human microbiota on our health and nervous system?

The human microbiota, consisting of about a hundred trillion microbial cells, plays an essential role in our health and may influence various diseases of the nervous system, including depression and autism, through its symbiotic relationship with our bodies.

What is the significance of the enteric nervous system in our body?

The enteric nervous system, with about 500 million neurons, is crucial for the operation of our nervous system, particularly at the level of feelings and emotions, and may have a more significant impact than the spinal cord.

How does the development of brain-activated prosthetics and exoskeletons relate to the concept of homeostasis?

Brain-activated prosthetics and exoskeletons represent a novel form of cooperation between human organisms and engineered devices, extending the medical and cultural efforts to maintain homeostasis in cases where natural homeostasis fails due to injury or disease.

What is the speaker's stance on the potential risks of artificial intelligence?

The speaker acknowledges the potential risks of artificial intelligence, suggesting that while it is substantially under human control, success in managing these risks is not guaranteed and requires collective will and determination.

Why is it important to consider historical disruptions, such as the fall of the late bronze age empires, in the context of current scientific and cultural progress?

Considering historical disruptions serves as a reminder of the potential for significant setbacks in human progress and underscores the importance of addressing current social, political, and environmental issues, such as inequality and climate change, to prevent similar catastrophes.

What is the speaker's final message regarding the future of scientific and cultural progress?

The speaker's final message is a call to lead scientific and cultural progress in a way that makes potential catastrophes unthinkable and impossible, by addressing current challenges and fostering a deeper understanding of our interconnectedness with the natural world.

Outlines

00:00

🎉 The Celebration of Achievements and the Future of Human Sciences

The speaker begins by expressing gratitude for the invitation and subtly disagrees with a previous statement, asserting that the event is indeed a celebration. They celebrate the accomplishments of the Animal Foundation over the past decade, not just in terms of infrastructure but also in the significant advancements in science and medicine. The speaker, a human neurobiologist, intends to discuss future trends and attitudes in biology and science culture. The first prediction is that life sciences and social sciences will merge to form a new field called the 'new human sciences,' which will integrate biological knowledge across species, their evolutionary history, and their habitats. The speaker emphasizes the importance of recognizing the continuity of human characteristics with other species and moving away from 'human exceptionalism.'

05:00

🧠 The Emergence of Consciousness and the Role of Nervous Systems

The speaker delves into the evolution of life regulation, known as homeostasis, and how it led to the emergence of sentience and feeling, which in turn permitted the rise of consciousness. The exact timing of this emergence is unknown, but it's likely that it coincided with the development of the first nerve nets around four million years ago. The Hydra, a simple organism with a nerve net, is used as an example to illustrate this point. The speaker suggests that nervous systems and brains are tools that evolved to assist with efficient homeostasis in multicellular organisms. The development of feeling and consciousness has led to a dual control system for homeostasis, with both automatic and willful aspects. This dual control presents both benefits and risks, offering freedom from genetic constraints but also the potential for conflict and inefficiency. Cultural instruments such as existential inquiry, arts, belief systems, and governance have developed as a result of the combination of feeling states and human intellect, and these are seen as both blessings and burdens. The speaker connects this discussion to the merging of life sciences and social sciences, emphasizing the importance of understanding these developments in the context of evolutionary continuity.

10:02

🌿 Addressing Global Issues and the Origins of Consciousness

The speaker addresses the importance of considering life regulation when tackling problems in biology, cognition, socio-political phenomena, and the sustenance of planetary life. They mention a meeting in Paris about climate, emphasizing that it is fundamentally about life regulation. The speaker predicts that within the next decade, the structures of the human brain stem, insular cortex, and cerebral cortex will be identified as critical to understanding consciousness. They also discuss the extraordinary scale of cooperations in biology, such as the symbiotic relationship between bacteria and the formation of living cells, and how these cooperations extend to social levels, forming social groups and nations. The speaker highlights the importance of the human gut's microbiota and the enteric nervous system, predicting that these will be influential in understanding diseases of the nervous system, including depression and autism.

15:04

🤖 Technological Advancements and the Future of Medicine

The speaker predicts that future neurobiology will clarify the socio-cultural emergence of cooperations and the role of the microbiota in our bodies. They discuss the importance of recognizing the symbiotic relationships in our bodies, such as the cooperation with bacteria in our gut and the air we breathe, which is generated by plants. The speaker also predicts advancements in the interface between human organisms and engineered devices, particularly in the field of brain-activated prosthetics and exoskeletons. They mention ongoing research at the foundation related to these technologies. The speaker then discusses the role of medicine as a cultural extension of homeostasis, emphasizing its importance when natural homeostasis fails due to disease. They also touch on the potential risks of artificial intelligence and the importance of collective will in preventing disruptions that could lead to significant setbacks for humanity.

20:06

⚠️ The Risks of Disruption and the Importance of Inequality

The speaker concludes with a cautionary note about the potential for global disruption, drawing parallels with historical events such as the fall of the late bronze age empires. They suggest that while the threat of nuclear holocaust seems less imminent, other issues, including climate change and social and political problems, could lead to similar disruptions. The speaker highlights the problem of inequality as a significant concern and calls for scientific and cultural progress that makes such a catastrophe unthinkable and impossible. They end their speech with a note of gratitude and a call to action for the audience to consider these possibilities and to work towards a future that prevents such disruptions.

Keywords

💡Celebration

A celebration is an event or occasion that marks a happy or significant event. In the context of the video, the speaker argues that the gathering is a celebration of the achievements of the Animal Foundation and its supporters over the past ten years, not just in terms of physical infrastructure but also in the fields of science and medicine.

💡Optimism

Optimism is a positive and hopeful attitude towards the future. The speaker mentions that the supporters of the Animal Foundation are optimists, which is reflected in their ambitious goals and the significant progress they have made in a relatively short period of time.

💡Human Sciences

Human Sciences is an interdisciplinary field that combines biological and social sciences to study human beings in their biological, psychological, and social contexts. The speaker predicts a merging of life sciences and social sciences to form a new branch of human sciences, which will help to understand the continuity of human characteristics with other species.

💡Homeostasis

Homeostasis is the ability of an organism to maintain a stable internal environment despite changes in external conditions. The speaker discusses how life regulation, or homeostasis, evolved to include sentience and feeling, leading to the emergence of consciousness and a dual control mechanism for homeostasis in humans.

💡Consciousness

Consciousness refers to the state of being aware of and able to think and perceive one's surroundings, thoughts, and emotions. The speaker talks about the dual aspect of consciousness, including the phenomenal feeling of being conscious and the cognitive capacity to process and manipulate information.

💡Cultural Instruments

Cultural instruments are the various social constructs and practices that humans have developed to manage and express their experiences, such as art, belief systems, moral codes, and governance. The speaker suggests that these instruments are a result of the combination of human intellect and the expansion of consciousness.

💡Socio-Cultural Homeostasis

Socio-cultural homeostasis refers to the balance and stability within a society's cultural and social structures. The speaker connects the concept of homeostasis to socio-political and cultural phenomena, emphasizing the importance of understanding life regulation in addressing global issues like climate change.

💡Neurobiology

Neurobiology is the scientific study of the nervous system and its role in behavior. The speaker, as a human neurobiologist, discusses how neurobiology has contributed to our understanding of the biological basis of consciousness and the potential for future discoveries in this field.

💡Enteric Nervous System

The enteric nervous system is a part of the nervous system that functions within the gastrointestinal tract and is sometimes referred to as the 'second brain.' The speaker highlights the importance of the enteric nervous system in regulating feelings and emotions, and its potential influence on various diseases of the nervous system.

💡Brain-Computer Interface

A brain-computer interface (BCI) is a direct communication pathway between the brain and an external device. The speaker predicts that BCIs will become more commonplace, enabling people to control prosthetic limbs or exoskeletons with their minds, which has significant implications for health and medicine.

💡Inequality

Inequality refers to the unequal distribution of resources, opportunities, or privileges among a population. The speaker mentions inequality as one of the social and political problems that could potentially lead to a major disruption or catastrophe, emphasizing the need for scientific and cultural progress to address such issues.

Highlights

The speaker celebrates the achievements of the Ship Animal Foundation in science and medicine over the past decade.

Prediction that life sciences and social sciences will merge to form a new field called the 'new human sciences'.

Discussion on the importance of moving away from human exceptionalism towards a more integrated understanding of biological continuity.

The emergence of consciousness and its role in the evolution of life regulation, or homeostasis.

The critical role of the human brain stem and insular cortex in explaining dual aspects of consciousness.

The impact of the microbiota in our gut and its symbiotic relationship with our nervous system.

The enteric nervous system's significant contribution to feelings and emotions, potentially influencing conditions like depression and autism.

The potential for brain-activated prosthetics and exoskeletons to revolutionize health and mobility.

Medicine as a cultural extension of homeostasis, addressing the failures of natural homeostasis in disease.

The possibility of a major societal disruption due to maltreatment of the planet, climate change, and social inequality.

The need for scientific and cultural progress to prevent potential catastrophes and ensure a sustainable future.

The existence of a new journal called 'Animal Sentience', indicating a growing focus on the sentience of non-human species.

The extraordinary scale of biological cooperations, from cellular to social levels, enabling complex life forms and societies.

The importance of understanding the continuity of evolution in addressing problems in biology, cognition, and socio-political phenomena.

The potential for advancements in neurobiology to elucidate the socio-cultural impacts of human intellect and consciousness.

The role of cultural instruments like existential inquiry, arts, and moral systems in managing socio-cultural homeostasis.

The possibility that future disruptions could occur due to factors similar to those that led to the fall of the late bronze age empires.

The collective will's substantial influence over the trajectory of technological and societal progress.

Transcripts

so good afternoon thank you for inviting

me to this celebration and I must begin

by disagreeing with you note by saying

that this is in fact a celebration she

said it was not but it is and it is a

celebration of what you know and our

insuperable tell you and all the other

supporters of the ship Animal Foundation

have managed to do in ten years in terms

of not just the beautiful building but

the programs in science and in medicine

which are of course quite remarkable now

they did this because they're optimists

and they have general spirits and you

need to be very optimistic and have a

lot of generous spirit in order to come

up with the title like the hundred years

of this unknown or the unknown in a

hundred years because of course we all

know that we will not know what that

hundred year mark will be but there are

a certain number of things that we can

we can try so rather than telling you

about

particular discoveries or particular

gadgets that I might think might come up

within the next few decades

I thought of focusing on a number of

ideas trends attitudes approaches not

only in biology but in science as a

whole and in the culture as a whole that

may be better predictors of what may or

may not come to pass and I would like to

so in fact what I want to do from my

perspective as a human neurobiologist

with a great interest on what

neurobiology has created in terms of

cultures what I'm going to do is is talk

about a number of reasonable predictions

and a number of justifications for those

predictions so let's see if we can start

and here's the first prediction

the life sciences and the social

sciences will gradually merge to

consider constitute a vast endeavor it

might be called the new human sciences

and the effort will reflect an

integration of biological knowledge

related to multiple species to their

evolutionary placement and to their

physical to the physical in habitats

that they require now this is something

that I I hope you connect with because

it has to do with a change that has not

happened yet but I hope will happen soon

it has to do with the turning away from

the human exceptionalism that we have

used abundantly in science including

neuroscience people talk about human

achievements in terms of their

intelligence their use of language their

creation of culture of course no one

doubts that we are exceptional in that

sense people talk about the exceptional

abilities of our several cortex for

example but what is lost in the shuffle

when you talk that way is the fact that

we are in the continuous in a continuum

of biological characteristics there

appear in many other species and then it

is important for us not only as

researchers but also as the consumers of

the research and as the public at large

to realize that immense continuity I

think that that will come to pass I

think that what we are going to have is

something like this joining of life

sciences and social sciences and I call

it the new human sciences because the

term human sciences does not have that

much currency in the anglo-saxon world

it does have some in French culture

there is already a bit of a blend of

life of biology for example and of

traditional humanities but what will be

very exciting is to bring together all

these fields and focus them on the human

being by the way as an aside just

this month in fact I think this week

there's a new journal beginning in the

United States and in the world which is

called animal sentience that does have

something to do with what I just told

you why do I think this will come to

pass

well because life regulation which is

technically also known as homeostasis

does not occur only at the basic level

of automatically governed molecular and

cellular operations at some point in

evolution another control interface

emerged

it consisted of sentience and feeling

which permitted together the emergence

of consciousness we cannot yet date the

epoch of this momentous emergence it is

probable however that by the time that

the first nerve nets appeared in the

history of life in canarians

in the Precambrian period we're talking

about some four million years ago the

partnership of a living body with its

nervous system permitted the rise of

feeling but it's also possible that it

actually began earlier and so I brought

to you an image of one of my favorite

animals it's a Hydra and this Hydra

which is really for those of you who

have not met hydras is something like a

floating digestive system is equipped

with this beautiful nerve net that

permits some of its most important

functions such as capturing nutrients

digesting them maintaining motility

creating for example peristalsis and it

is something that at heart has this

reticular this network arrangement which

lo and behold although this creature

comes from 4 million years ago exists

very much in all of us inside our

brainstem in fact the reticular

formation of our brainstem which is a

critical element of the governance of

life in each and every one of us and it

permits for example the emergence of

feeling is in fact organized

neroli pretty much the same way

now nervous systems themselves and

eventually brains are mere instruments

of amused asses and so this idea by

itself is an idea that of course I don't

need to prove it it's there it it's

certainly a fact but it is not the

general perspective that people use when

they think for example about brain

research or about minds or about

sociality so actually nervous systems

appeared in evolution when multicellular

organisms so life already organized

could no longer cope with efficient well

coordinated homeostasis without neural

assistance so in fact one could say

something like this maybe it's a

sentence that you might want to ponder

and discuss if evolution had a mind of

its own nervous systems would be a mere

afterthought of complex living bodies

not the other way around

now once feeling in consciousness

emerged the homeostasis game changed

step by step the individual became

informed in an affected valence manner

about the state of life regulation in

its body eventually after substantial

intellectual capacities co-evolved

homeostasis acquired dual controls it

was now governed both automatically and

willfully the dual control has benefits

and costs it offers freedom from the

relative tyranny of the genome but it

carries the risk of conflicts and

inefficiency it can actually be a burden

but the important point is to realize

that we have two ways of running our

homeostasis once one that comes from a

very old history in biology and which is

not under our control

and another which gradually it's a sort

of work in progress we have under our

willful control for better and for worse

and so the combination of feeling States

with the expansion of human intellect

has led to the development of cultural

instruments for example existential

inquiry the arts belief systems moral

systems and justice governance and

economics

technology and science the cultural

instruments attempt what in fact is on

your stasis but they do it through a

socio-cultural

means and they are of course these new

instruments of honest Isis are both

blessings and burdens and so this is

where I I connect with the first image I

gave you at the beginning of the joining

of life sciences and social sciences is

that seen in this perspective what we

are doing in our cultures in all the

activities in which everyone in this

room engages so passionately is in fact

not something that we invent it out of

the blue once we had minds capable of

intellectual feats it's actually

something that is intellectual and that

requires certain capacities and

abilities but it is in the continuity of

what has been happening throughout

evolution in terms of organizing and

maintaining life so almost a season in

particular human on your stays is

broadly conceived at multiple levels

will be recognized this is another

prediction is the issue we need to

address when we approach problems in

basic biology cognition socio-political

and cultural phenomena or sustenance of

planetary life at this very moment there

is a meeting being convened in Paris

about climate and guess what it is about

climate but it is fundamentally about

the regulation of life conditions it

cannot be understood the problems that

are being discussed cannot be understood

outside of the context of life

regulation and that very much applies to

the discussion we were having before in

terms of what for example the net will

bring in the future quite interesting

and this is another prediction many of

you will know that there's plenty of

debate in science about the origins of

consciousness and about how

consciousness may or may not be

explained that neurobiological level so

I'll put my foot my best foot forward

and I will say that within the next

decade we will have the possibility of

verifying that in fact structures of the

human brain stem which is being

represented there together with

structures of the insular cortex both

relatively humble one more than the

other as well as structures of the

cerebral cortex and in particular the

structures that permit long tracked

connections that cross integrate

components of the cerebral cortex across

the entire space are going to be

critical to explain exactly this dual

aspect of consciousness on the one hand

the phenomenal feeling Ness that we have

when we are conscious on the other the

so-called easy problem of consciousness

which has to do with the fact that we

have a huge amount of information that

can be manipulated in our imagination

and some of those beautiful connections

I'm showing you there they come from

Donna's lab and these are from human

brains and they're being of course

created through or represented through

diffusion tensor imaging and tract

representation and what is so remarkable

here is that they are huge connections

that far more than in other species make

this broad links across the space of the

cerebral cortex and on we go another

prediction future neurobiology will make

clear that the emergence of

socio-cultural amia slices the way I

explained it was possible because of the

extraordinary scale of a set of

phenomena best designated as

cooperations you see we speak a lot

about cooperations in the world of the

culture and yet there are cooperations

going on at biological level at multiple

biological levels for example the key

example the cooperation of bacteria that

give up their independent lives to join

symbiotically and construct a living

cell which you see there's a little

homage to lynn margulis who was very

much a defender of this idea that the

org

that you find in the living cell were in

fact in ages past bacteria other

examples include the joining of cells to

make tissues tissues that make organs

and systems and organism and also again

jumping to the social level the

cooperations that create social groups

cities nations in a planet where in turn

each individual is cooperating

symbiotically

with millions of bacteria that

constitute the microbiota of their own

guts and where they breathe the air that

is generated by a cooperation with many

individual plants and so forth now this

is not a prediction it's a series of

facts to lead to possible predictions

there are about a hundred trillion

microbial cells in the human gut each of

us has about three pounds of them right

now if you are healthy and I hope you

all are and all of these these trillions

of microbes are living symbiotically in

our organism and are in fact essential

for our organism to function normally

Margaret

MacPhail Nye has had a rather

interesting sentence in which she said

that plants and animals are a near

patina in the microbial world now this

is of course a little bit pushed but

nonetheless it captures the idea and now

let me add something that is interesting

not many people talk about the enteric

nervous system but since I was talking

about microbiota and that has to do in

fact with one's guts I thought of

mentioning this because it's in fact not

mentioned even in the index of most

textbooks for example of neuroscience

now the enteric nervous system has about

500 million neurons and this is five

times the number of neurons that you can

find in the spinal cord and they are

doing something quite important and they

are doing something quite important that

has a role to play in the operation of

our nervous system for example at

level of feelings and emotion the

prediction here is that in fact many

diseases of the nervous system including

for example depression or a condition

such as autism are likely influenced by

not only this microbiota fact that I've

just introduced but by the fact that we

have an enteric nervous system there is

far more important in its contribution

to the operations of the nervous system

at molecular level and at cellular level

then for example the spinal cord itself

not that we do not need the spinal cord

without which you cannot have our proper

movement so another kind of cooperation

this is a prediction that is actually

rather easy to make but the proportions

that it will assume I think are quite

spectacular in the next and novel sort

of cooperation is as began and will

expand it happens at the interface

between human organisms and engineer

devices especially at the nervous system

body interface I'm talking about brain

activated prosthesis and even

exoskeletons that will become

commonplace in years to come I'm glad to

say that here at the shrimp Alamo

foundation there are investigators

working on this problem and and of

course we're not talking about the cane

or a pair of glasses we're talking about

the possibility of having your mind

willfully activate a prosthesis that

will allow you to guide your arm a

prosthetic arm to an object and will

allow me for example with the

nexto-skeleton to move after you have

become tetraplegic this is something

that does have to do with health so why

do I talk about homeostasis in a session

there is to do with medicine very simple

medicine is actually the cultural

extension of homeostasis the scientific

knowledge and the practices of medicine

are called for and kick in when natural

homeostasis fails in disease ensues as a

result of the emergence of feeling and

consciousness

two aspects that are critical in all of

this story the medical extension of

Amish days is include psychology

psychiatry and numerous socio-cultural

developments designed to cope with the

pathologies that result from a

disorganized socio-cultural homeostasis

now I would like to end with a couple of

comments that for some of you may sound

a little bit sad or troubling we've

already talked about possibilities of

trouble in the previous talk with the

developments that may come out of a

runaway system of artificial

intelligence but let me read what I

wrote here and discuss it with you

imagine that instead of think sailing

beautifully as we hope they will we

would have something like what I wrote

about I believe all this could pass

because it is substantial part under the

control of our collective wills but

success is by no means guaranteed

besides the vagaries of human collective

determination think of what seems to

have happened in the twelfth century

before the Christian era about 1200 BC

during the so-called great disruption I

want you to be a little bit more remote

so that we would not have to worry about

today immediately but today worry

instead about something that is very

real this is the period of the fall of

the late bronze age empires in the

eastern Mediterranean a period and a

collection of events that formed the

background for Homer's Iliad think of

the fall of Egypt Crete and - Troy and

Babylon now whether as a result of

earthquakes or droughts or the violent

actions of the so-called sea people or

perhaps all of the above combined the

best of dreams of these cultures came to

an abrupt and abrupt halt it took

centuries to rebuild what was lost then

I guess the the nice side of this story

is that in fact what came after those

centuries of rebuilding were

the first monotheistic religions but

still it was a major disruption so this

sort of disruption was obviously

possible in the 20th century when a

nuclear holocaust was a real possibility

it appears like it is a bit less so but

then the worry waned I think we would do

well to consider the possibility that

such a disruption could occur from

different reasons or perhaps even from

reasons that are very similar and have

to do with the maltreatment of the

planet climate in many other social and

political problems including one problem

that I was glad was brought up in the

discussion by Tim and that is the

problem of inequality and I think we

would do well to consider this

possibility and the lead the scientific

and cultural progress in a way that

makes such a catastrophe thinkable but

impossible thank you very much